A letter to the New York City protesters

[ChumpDumper]

What makes you think I'm afraid?You're parroting party lines at mach speed.

[George Gervin's Afro]

What makes you think I'm afraid?

I think the OWS movement is a desperate move by the Left to save the political power they see slipping away with the disastrous presidency of Barack Obama.

Not as disastrous as starting an unecessary war..just sayin..

[Yonivore]

Not as disastrous as starting an unecessary war..just sayin..
I think that's debatable but, we'd have to have an unnecessary war with which to compare, wouldn't we?

[ChumpDumper]

They're still translating the documents!

[LnGrrrR]

BTW, Simultaneously saying the free market rules all while blaming customer irrationality for our problems is fucking ironic as hell.

:lmao

Nice catch.

I guess it's just the fault of those damn dirty hippies. And those bankers. And CEOs... And....

[Yonivore]

http://pl-mgroup-akamai.powerlineblog.com/admin/ed-assets/2011/10/310473_10150344819678190_563068189_8047513_5056643 22_n.jpg

So, how do you hurt Wall Street without hurting people?

[MannyIsGod]

Wall St =! Corporations
Regulating Wall St =! "Down with Corporations"

Yonivore = Strawman Poster

[Winehole23]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/311821_160886897336044_159818307442903_281451_1759 218400_n.jpg

[boutons_deux]

yep, the financial sector has less and less to do with the Real Economy.

Wall St and the financial sector are doing great, the jobs economy is a disaster.

Poor Yoni, he's so ideologically perverted he can't think straight.

[MannyIsGod]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/311821_160886897336044_159818307442903_281451_1759 218400_n.jpg

:lol

[Yonivore]

PU274uGEEpM
Judging by the comments, in here, I'm betting this guy represents more of the OWS protesters than they would care to admit.

Party on, Greg!

[Yonivore]

Even better than Greg, from Portland, is this little gem...


AWyrk10_S84

Nothing funnier than watching a grossly overpaid multi-millionaire relating to the great unwashed. To conclude his show of solidarity with his fellow 99%-ers, he then took his private elevator down to his chauffered Town Car which returned him to his Trump Palace condo.

Courage.

[ElNono]

You watch Olbermann? lol

[Wild Cobra]

You watch Olbermann? lol
have to keep up with what you guys relate to.

[ElNono]

have to keep up with what you guys relate to.

Never seen Olbermann once in my life. After what I heard about the guy here, don't think I want to waste my time either.

[Yonivore]

have to keep up with what you guys relate to.
I actually thought he was off the air. Saw the clip and thought it amusing.

[ElNono]

Shit, I'm sure I've seen more of Beck and O'Reilly than Olbermann...

[Yonivore]

:lmao

a2-dGOkNOrs

[ChumpDumper]

Even better than Greg, from Portland, is this little gem...


AWyrk10_S84

Nothing funnier than watching a grossly overpaid multi-millionaire relating to the great unwashed. To conclude his show of solidarity with his fellow 99%-ers, he then took his private elevator down to his chauffered Town Car which returned him to his Trump Palace condo.

Courage.yoni is not as successful as Keith Olbermann and it's nobody's fault but yoni's.

[DMC]

Friend of mine in California said people were showing up to protests not knowing what they were protesting. When asked "what are you here to protest" they said "I don't know yet".

[Wild Cobra]

:lmao

a2-dGOkNOrs
Oh... My.... God....

just how stupid are people today anyway?

[Wild Cobra]

Friend of mine in California said people were showing up to protests not knowing what they were protesting. When asked "what are you here to protest" they said "I don't know yet".
LOL...

Nobody told them yet.

What a bunch of sheople.

[DMX7]

yoni is not as successful as Keith Olbermann and it's nobody's fault but yoni's.

He's not as rich as Olbermann is either, and it's nobody's fault but Yoni's.

[ElNono]

He's not as rich as Olbermann is either, and it's nobody's fault but Yoni's.

Yoni clearly didn't make as many "right choices" as that hack Olbermann...

[baseline bum]

:lol

[DMX7]

It's not Olbermann's fault that he succeeded. It's Yoni's fault that he failed.

[Yonivore]

Stinking up Wall Street: Protesters accused of living in filth as shocking pictures show one demonstrator defecating on a POLICE CAR (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046586/Occupy-Wall-Street-Shocking-photos-protester-defecating-POLICE-CAR.html)

Pathetic.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/08/article-2046586-0E481DB700000578-865_634x366.jpg

And, yet, they wonder why success and wealth eludes them...

[Yonivore]

It's not Olbermann's fault that he succeeded. It's Yoni's fault that he failed.
Olbermann is entitled to every penny he is able to wheedle out of the network that continues to air him.

[Agloco]

Nothing funnier than watching a grossly overpaid multi-millionaire relating to the great unwashed. To conclude his show of solidarity with his fellow 99%-ers, he then took his private elevator down to his chauffered Town Car which returned him to his Trump Palace condo.

This contextualizes perfectly your love for Cains latest rhetoric.


Olbermann is entitled to every penny he is able to wheedle out of the network that continues to air him.

Yeah, he's just not allowed to look back down that ladder he's climbed.

[Agloco]

Oh... My.... God....

just how stupid are people today anyway?

Dumb <edit:ignorant> across the board, hence the issues you see.

[CuckingFunt]

:lmao

a2-dGOkNOrs

'Member when the TEA Party protests were big, and people here posted youtubes of conservative protesters making ignorant and/or blatantly racist comments, and then the board conservatives went on long rants about how those protesters' comments were: a) taken out of context, b) instigated by members of the media trying to make them look like a bunch of ignorant racists, and c) not representative of the movement/protests as a whole?

[Yonivore]

'Member when the TEA Party protests were big, and people here posted youtubes of conservative protesters making ignorant and/or blatantly racist comments, and then the board conservatives went on long rants about how those protesters' comments were: a) taken out of context, b) instigated by members of the media trying to make them look like a bunch of ignorant racists, and c) not representative of the movement/protests as a whole?
Okay, find me an OWS video with a coherent message then.

Videos like the one I posted are a dime a dozen. I've yet to see one that is a coherent expression of what the OWS is about.

[ChumpDumper]

Olbermann is entitled to every penny he is able to wheedle out of the network that continues to air him.And yoni is entitled to every bit of his abject personal failure to be as rich as Olbermann.

[DMX7]

And yoni is entitled to every bit of his abject personal failure to be as rich as Olbermann.

...And he has noone to blame for it but himself. :lol

[boutons_deux]

"a coherent message"

false target, who other than you needs a "coherent" message.

Even tea baggers were extremely diverse, although they were universally NOT targeting Wall St, the wealthy, UCA. Ever wonder why?

[Yonivore]

You can be this girl...


http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/files/2011/10/tumblr_lsojdz4R5c1r25y9yo1_500.jpg

...and demand others be responsible for your success.

Or, you can be this guy...


D1R-jKKp3NA

...who took a different approach (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/8-things-didn-t-know-life-steve-jobs-172130955.html).


The lead mind behind the most successful company on the planet never graduated from college, in fact, he didn't even get close. After graduating from high school in Cupertino, California — a town now synonymous with 1 Infinite Loop, Apple's headquarters — Jobs enrolled in Reed College in 1972. Jobs stayed at Reed (a liberal arts university in Portland, Oregon) for only one semester, dropping out quickly due to the financial burden the private school's steep tuition placed on his parents.

In his famous 2005 commencement speech to Stanford University, Jobs said of his time at Reed: "It wasn't all romantic. I didn't have a dorm room, so I slept on the floor in friends' rooms, I returned coke bottles for the 5 cent deposits to buy food with, and I would walk the seven miles across town every Sunday night to get one good meal a week at the Hare Krishna temple."
It's your choice.

Keep being you, that’s fine. It’s a free country. But choices have consequences and life isn’t risk-free. Just don’t expect the world to pony up and make your life comfortable because your bad moves have left you unprepared for life. Own your choices. Live with them.

They’re probably all you’ll ever have, unless you get your mind right.

Peace out.

[ChumpDumper]

Why did you people never use Steve Jobs as an example when he was alive?

Oh right -- your blogs didn't tell you to.

[ElNono]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/311821_160886897336044_159818307442903_281451_1759 218400_n.jpg

:lol

[Yonivore]

WTF? I think that's what Congressman John Lewis leaned over and said to his aide about a minute into this nonsense. Ten minutes later, the group can't reach a "concensus" to allow Congressman Lewis to speak.

3QZlp3eGMNI

The "Occupy Wall Street" movement is in the best of hands.

:lmao

[Wild Cobra]

Is that a variation of "Simon Says?"

Sorry, I couldn't get pat the first minute.

[Yonivore]

Is that a variation of "Simon Says?"

Sorry, I couldn't get pat the first minute.
It doesn't change. They finally decide they can't reach a consensus and the Congressman is sent away. At that point, however, I think Congressman Lewis was both relieved and ready to get the fuck out of there.

It's pretty fucked up.

Imagine the immediate outrage and attention that would occur if a Tea Party Rally refused to allow a black civil rights leader and congressman to speak.

[Yonivore]

Oh... My.... God....

just how stupid are people today anyway?
You said it earlier.

[xrayzebra]

So how did the distribution of infinite wealth become so unbalanced?

Be specific.


How much wealth has Obama and his gang destroyed?

[ElNono]

How much wealth has Obama and his gang destroyed?

How much, ray?

[xrayzebra]

How much, ray?

In property value alone, I would say several trillion. In job losses and
business losses another several million. Inflation in fuel cost inestimable.


Only those with enough resources to carry them through the depression
we are in have any wealth left. Unless you are one of the selected few
that Dear Leader has endowed with tax money: Unions, community
organizers, Wall Street donors and so called green energy developers.
Dear Leader selects the winners and losers in today society.

How much am I off Mr. NoNo. I am sure you have some jim dandy
brilliant comeback that will really contribute to the conversation. Much
like other one liner experts. Like the chump.

[Yonivore]

In property value alone, I would say several trillion. In job losses and
business losses another several million. Inflation in fuel cost inestimable.


Only those with enough resources to carry them through the depression
we are in have any wealth left. Unless you are one of the selected few
that Dear Leader has endowed with tax money: Unions, community
organizers, Wall Street donors and so called green energy developers.
Dear Leader selects the winners and losers in today society.

How much am I off Mr. NoNo. I am sure you have some jim dandy
brilliant comeback that will really contribute to the conversation. Much
like other one liner experts. Like the chump.
This is the only one-liners I see from Dump or Nono:

"This message is hidden because ElNono is on your ignore list."

[xrayzebra]

Why did you people never use Steve Jobs as an example when he was alive?

Oh right -- your blogs didn't tell you to.

You know, I, at one time thought you might just like being sarcastic, but
you really don't have a lot to say do you?

[Yonivore]

You know, I, at one time thought you might just like being sarcastic, but
you really don't have a lot to say do you?
Nope, it really doesn't have much to say.

[ElNono]

In property value alone, I would say several trillion. In job losses and business losses another several million. Inflation in fuel cost inestimable.

Only those with enough resources to carry them through the depression
we are in have any wealth left. Unless you are one of the selected few
that Dear Leader has endowed with tax money: Unions, community
organizers, Wall Street donors and so called green energy developers.
Dear Leader selects the winners and losers in today society.

How much am I off Mr. NoNo. I am sure you have some jim dandy
brilliant comeback that will really contribute to the conversation. Much
like other one liner experts. Like the chump.

How is this administration responsible for the decay in property value, ray? I know you're a little old, and your memory a little frail, but the TARP, the toxic property loans, and the start of this recession happened in the previous administration.

Also, you do realize that the Fed is an independent entity, right?

I'm no fan of this administration. But the reasons have everything to do with the fact that it's more of the same of the old one. They didn't invent catering to Wall Street donors. Heck the GOP has one of the most oiled special interest campaign finances machines out there. Unions had the same benefits under Bush... I don't recall any union busting happening then either.

Actually, the only difference is that you seemingly weren't bitching then.

I'm still complaining about the wars, GITMO, the erosion of civil rights... I was bitching about them back then, and I really do think it's fair to nail this administration for moving on with more of the same.

[ElNono]

Nope, it really doesn't have much to say.

Shouldn't you be searching some blogs to tell you what you have to say?

[ElNono]

"This message is hidden because ElNono is on your ignore list."

yoni = http://i18.stockmediaserver.com/smsimg30/th170/Ingram/02C72879.jpg

Only brings credence to what I've been saying:
- partisan cheerleader
- not interested in debate
- not interested in backing up claims once called out on them
- dishonest

Thanks yoni for making my point for me. Shame you won't be reading this post :lol

[m>s]

Friend of mine in California said people were showing up to protests not knowing what they were protesting. When asked "what are you here to protest" they said "I don't know yet".
shit is expanding to all major cities, NY is america's pioneer just as always you know that brah. plus your "friend" in california is an immigrant too im guessing

[ElNono]

Protest Spurs Online Dialogue on Inequity (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/nyregion/wall-street-protest-spurs-online-conversation.html?hp)

[baseline bum]

This is the only one-liners I see from Dump or Nono:

"This message is hidden because ElNono is on your ignore list."

:rollin

[Spurminator]

Still scared.

[Cry Havoc]

This thread contains some of the most blatant stupidity I've ever read in my life. I seriously wonder how some people function when they can constantly ignore things like common sense and cause and effect relationships. It's baffling. There isn't even an actual debate going on here, because anytime the discussion tries to move to finer/deeper points, said idiots retreat back to the same baseless assertions that were never true in the first place and have been completely shut down over and over again.

[Yonivore]

The paradox of the anarchists for big government who make up the "Occupy" movement.


http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ANARCHISTS-FOR-BIGGOVT.png

[George Gervin's Afro]

wealth gap largest in histoy and yoni's side tells us of class war fare and punishing success.. impeccable logic..

[Yonivore]

wealth gap largest in histoy and yoni's side tells us of class war fare and punishing success.. impeccable logic..
I'm just saying they're trying to punish the wrong people.

I think it's ironic the protesters, in Atlanta, chose Woodruff Park as the place to hold their "Occupy" weirdness. Woodruff Park was donated by the CEO of Coca Cola...that capitalist pig.

If the "Occupy" protesters wanted to direct their anger in the right direction, they might be better served by congregating at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, in Washington, D.C. and yell their slogans at:


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3056/2983236034_456efe452c_o.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86RAp_iuhOQ&feature=player_embedded)
President Goldman Sachs

86RAp_iuhOQ

Or


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/2741917769_73a85d95cd_o.jpg
President Exxon

Exxon [Hearts] Obama (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2008/08/exxon-hearts-ob/)

Business only has influence in Washington because Politicians are greedy.

[Yonivore]

wealth gap largest in histoy and yoni's side tells us of class war fare and punishing success.. impeccable logic..
And, still, the people at the bottom of that gap are wealthier than they were before.

Let me amend that...they were wealthier than ever before, until Obama took office.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3056/2983236034_456efe452c_o.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86RAp_iuhOQ&feature=player_embedded)
President Goldman Sachs

:lmao:lmao:lmao classic

[Wild Cobra]

The paradox of the anarchists for big government who make up the "Occupy" movement.


http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ANARCHISTS-FOR-BIGGOVT.png
LOL...

I never really thought about that mixed up pair of messages before. Another reason to call them libards, isn't it?

[Wild Cobra]

And, still, the people at the bottom of that gap are wealthier than they were before.

Let me amend that...they were wealthier than ever before, until Obama took office.
We do have the wealtiest poor in the world now, don't we?

I wonder what they would do if we took away their WII's, Blue Ray Players, Wide screes, etc. to show them that the real poor don't have such luxuries?

[Spurminator]

You guys continue to make this about government vs. corporations/Wall St. without realizing that they're protesting both. It reeks of willful stupidity.

[Wild Cobra]

You guys continue to make this about government vs. corporations/Wall St. without realizing that they're protesting both. It reeks of willful stupidity.
Well, in my opinion, both complaints are too vague. To have a protest that I won't laugh at, they need a more concise message.

[Yonivore]

You guys continue to make this about government vs. corporations/Wall St. without realizing that they're protesting both. It reeks of willful stupidity.
Then why aren't they at the White House and Capitol?

This isn't about government vs. corporations; it's about who really is driving the train, government or corporations.

If people wouldn't elect corrupt politicians that can be bought to do corporate bidding :::cough cough President Goldman Sachs cough cough::: then the country wouldn't be in the position it finds itself.

Quit putting people in office that will do the people's bidding and not corporations.

I maintain, the "Occupy" crowd are banging on the wrong doors.

[xrayzebra]

How is this administration responsible for the decay in property value, ray? I know you're a little old, and your memory a little frail, but the TARP, the toxic property loans, and the start of this recession happened in the previous administration.

Also, you do realize that the Fed is an independent entity, right?

I'm no fan of this administration. But the reasons have everything to do with the fact that it's more of the same of the old one. They didn't invent catering to Wall Street donors. Heck the GOP has one of the most oiled special interest campaign finances machines out there. Unions had the same benefits under Bush... I don't recall any union busting happening then either.

Actually, the only difference is that you seemingly weren't bitching then.

I'm still complaining about the wars, GITMO, the erosion of civil rights... I was bitching about them back then, and I really do think it's fair to nail this administration for moving on with more of the same.

You of course ignoring the facts in the "previous" administration(s).
So called fair housing laws, banks forced to make loans that couldn't be
paid back. A Democrat Congress that blocked regulation to outlaw such
practices. Bush gave unions corporations? Bush stopped prosecution of
the Black Panthers, Defense of marriage act, used EPA to enact the
cap and tax law that was turned back by Congress. Gave a blank check
to Fannie and Freddy (which is still going on as we speak). Ask for
stimulus of a Trillion dollars for infrastructure, shovel ready jobs, and
then gave them money to states so union workers wouldn't be laid off
and used it as a slush fund to pay off cronies. And now is back asking
for more slush funds to buy his re-election.

Erosion of civil rights. Have you ever looked at your credit report?
GITMO is needed and will be needed for many years to come. Like it
or not we are at war. Have been during the Clinton years and maybe
could be traced back to Reagan's time in office. Except we kept wanting
to call it something else. Only our enemy knew we were at war and
some far thinking people.

Oh, and yes, Elnono, I am an old man, in age, and have seen a lot in this
old world and have seen young people make asses out of themselves,
including myself, but not in the way they did in the 60's and today.
We are getting a taste of the education of the 60's right now in the
White House. We have a man who hates the country he is suppose to
be President of or he is such an abject fool that he is incompetent to the
Nth. I subscribe to the former not the later. And if people put him back
in office or he prevents an election (and I sincerely believe he will try if
he thinks he cant get re-elected)(you may be seeing a dress rehearsal of
what is to come) then you will see the failure of our country as we
have known it in the past. And this is one of the arguments that will
be proven one way or the other. So we shall see. Only thing missing,
so far, is the violence that will occur later.

Have a great day, I am in a great mood today. Over 3 inches of rain
since midnight and a nice slow rain falling right now. And I do believe
it is pretty general and many are getting the benefit of it.

[Yonivore]

Well, they have a theme song.


4QTfNEDgusQ

:lmao

[ElNono]

You of course ignoring the facts in the "previous" administration(s).
So called fair housing laws, banks forced to make loans that couldn't be
paid back. A Democrat Congress that blocked regulation to outlaw such
practices.

CRA loans (http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/06/30/why-cra-loans-werent-toxic-subprime-loans/) were about 1% of the total toxic loans.

When you stop ignoring that fact, then you can connect the fact that Countrywide et all ran a sweet scam, then when the shit hit the fan, got bailed out by both sides of the aisle.

Again, how is this administration responsible for the decay in property value, ray?


Bush gave unions corporations? Bush stopped prosecution of the Black Panthers, Defense of marriage act, used EPA to enact the cap and tax law that was turned back by Congress. Gave a blank check to Fannie and Freddy (which is still going on as we speak). Ask for
stimulus of a Trillion dollars for infrastructure, shovel ready jobs, and
then gave them money to states so union workers wouldn't be laid off
and used it as a slush fund to pay off cronies. And now is back asking
for more slush funds to buy his re-election.

You mean this administration successfully saved GM and Chysler? How much does it bother you that those companies are back on track now, and millions of jobs were saved?

'Black Panthers, Defense of marriage act' are unions now?

The administration sent stimulus money to every state, including red ones. Remember how Perry balanced his budget? How many cronies were there?. Ask state workers at least in in WI or NJ if union workers weren't laid off.
Bush didn't send you a check as part of his failed 'stimulus' plan?

Looks like you're venting. Vent away, ray.


Erosion of civil rights. Have you ever looked at your credit report? GITMO is needed and will be needed for many years to come. Like it or not we are at war. Have been during the Clinton years and maybe could be traced back to Reagan's time in office. Except we kept wanting to call it something else. Only our enemy knew we were at war and
some far thinking people.

I couldn't disagree more. Ultimately, I'm holding Barry to his promises. Part of the reason he was voted in was to end the wars and close down GITMO, as he promised. His administration has had a terrible civil rights record.


Oh, and yes, Elnono, I am an old man, in age, and have seen a lot in this old world and have seen young people make asses out of themselves, including myself, but not in the way they did in the 60's and today. We are getting a taste of the education of the 60's right now in the White House. We have a man who hates the country he is suppose to
be President of or he is such an abject fool that he is incompetent to the
Nth. I subscribe to the former not the later. And if people put him back
in office or he prevents an election (and I sincerely believe he will try if
he thinks he cant get re-elected)(you may be seeing a dress rehearsal of
what is to come) then you will see the failure of our country as we
have known it in the past. And this is one of the arguments that will
be proven one way or the other. So we shall see. Only thing missing,
so far, is the violence that will occur later.

I don't think Barry hates this country and I'm sure there will be an election. That's all I can say from your comment above. I do think his administration has sucked as much as the previous one. I still don't know what the elections are going to look like, simply because the GOP haven't selected their candidate, and frankly, the current pool is as poor as it comes.


Have a great day, I am in a great mood today. Over 3 inches of rain since midnight and a nice slow rain falling right now. And I do believe it is pretty general and many are getting the benefit of it.

You have yourself a good day too. :toast

[Yonivore]

Occupy’s pass steams Tea Party (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1371593)


The Hub’s hands-off approach to unpermitted Occupy Boston protests has Tea Partiers up in arms and has even rankled a top civil libertarian who said all groups should be subject to the same rules — regardless of the cause.

“It’s always a dangerous precedent when the city treats one group differently than another,” said civil rights attorney Harvey Silverglate. “I’m opposed generally to these requirements, but if they are required of one group, then they should be required of all. The precedent (the city is setting) is, if there are so many people joining a demonstration that the city doesn’t want to tangle with them, then they will waive the requirements.”

Organizers of the Occupy Boston tent city in Dewey Square have never sought nor received any permits from the state, the city or the Rose Kennedy Greenway Conservancy, which controls the property.

Just another sign this is a Democrat movement.

In case you're interested...go here (http://www.rosekennedygreenway.org/events/proposals/)to see the rules by which the Tea Party were required to abide and the "Occupiers" allowed to disregard.


http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/6224046297_a01915a32f.jpg

[Old Man McCain]

Yoni and the Tea Baggers :cry

:lmao

[Yonivore]

At least they have Hugo on their side.

Chavez slams "horrible repression" of U.S. protests (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/chavez-slams-horrible-repression-u-protests-214847992.html)

[Yonivore]

Yoni and the Tea Baggers :cry

:lmao
I'm sorry, I don't see the humor in violating the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment to the constitution.

[DMX7]

Yoni is really working the Google today.

[Yonivore]

Yoni is really working the Google today.
Haven't Googled once.

[Spurminator]

Then why aren't they at the White House and Capitol?

This isn't about government vs. corporations; it's about who really is driving the train, government or corporations.

If people wouldn't elect corrupt politicians that can be bought to do corporate bidding :::cough cough President Goldman Sachs cough cough::: then the country wouldn't be in the position it finds itself.

Quit putting people in office that will do the people's bidding and not corporations.

I maintain, the "Occupy" crowd are banging on the wrong doors.

Washington is the theater, Wall Street is where the play's writers live.

[Spurminator]

Well, in my opinion, both complaints are too vague. To have a protest that I won't laugh at, they need a more concise message.


The message is that our government is run by Wall Street. It's not a difficult message for anyone who doesn't take their cues from what they hear on the radio.

[Yonivore]

Washington is the theater, Wall Street is where the play's writers live.
Clever but, the actors are more accessible and easier to fire.

[ChumpDumper]

Bush stopped prosecution of
the Black Panthers.Yes, his administration did.

One need not waste more than a line or two on the likes of you because your ignorance and partisan cheerleading is too easily dealt with.

[Yonivore]

Yes, his administration did.

One need not waste more than a line or two on the likes of you because your ignorance and partisan cheerleading is too easily dealt with.
The Bush administration's DOJ Civil Rights Division decided there wasn't enough evidence to pursue a criminal conviction and went the civil rout. They won a judgement against the New Black Panther Party Obama administration dropped and asked be dismissed.

[Spurminator]

Clever but, the actors are more accessible and easier to fire.

And protesting on Wall Street does not preclude anyone from firing the people in Washington who are on their bankroll.

[ChumpDumper]

The Bush administration's DOJ Civil Rights Division decided there wasn't enough evidence to pursue a criminal conviction and went the civil rout. They won a judgement against the New Black Panther Party Obama administration dropped and asked be dismissed.So the Bush administration stopped the prosecution of the NBPP.

Thanks for repeating what I said.

Tell me yoni, who was intimidated by the NBPP in that case?

[Yonivore]

And protesting on Wall Street does not preclude anyone from firing the people in Washington who are on their bankroll.
It's just barking up the wrong tree.

The people in Washington, who are on the their bankroll, are happy the heat is off them.

Can you say, President Goldman Sachs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86RAp_iuhOQ&feature=player_embedded)? I knew that you could.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3056/2983236034_456efe452c_o.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

lol yoni pretending Republicans aren't bought and sold as well

[Spurminator]

It's just barking up the wrong tree.

The people in Washington, who are on the their bankroll, are happy the heat is off them.

You're right, you clever bastard, if only people in Washington had TVs they might know about these protests.

[Spurminator]

Boy they had you working all weekend, didn't they?

Emergency! All hands on deck! To the Internet!

[Yonivore]

You're right, you clever bastard, if only people in Washington had TVs they might know about these protests.
So, you're suggesting if all these people got together at Burning Man, or someplace, and persuaded the media to broadcast their protest, Wall Street and Pennsylvania Avenue, alike, would feel the heat?

The White House is perfectly happy to let their benefactors take the blame. Obama will even pretend to identify with the protesters while continuing to hope there'll be a Goldman Sachs to line his campaign chest over the next 15 months.

[Yonivore]

Boy they had you working all weekend, didn't they?

Emergency! All hands on deck! To the Internet!
Yeah, it's grueling.

[Yonivore]

Good for him...

Herman Cain steps up attacks on Occupy Wall Street protests (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-cain-occupy-wall-street-20111009,0,972806.story)

I'm a Cracker for Cain!

[ChumpDumper]

Those poor Wall St. executives need the protection of a black man.

[ElNono]

What will Cain have you say next, yoni?

[Spurminator]

So, you're suggesting if all these people got together at Burning Man, or someplace, and persuaded the media to broadcast their protest, Wall Street and Pennsylvania Avenue, alike, would feel the heat?


I'm suggesting Wall Street is a perfectly appropriate place to protest the government's servitude to the financial district. It's certainly gotten your attention.

[boutons_deux]

Yoni, pretty scary.

He's the kind of blind follower of establishment/right-wing authoritarianism, coupled with his law enforcement career, that he'd approve orders to the militarized state/local police to go Kent St on anti-establishment dissenters, even squeeze off a few rounds himself, just to save the Republic from the mortal risk of peaceful, unarmed dissenters.

[Yonivore]

I'm suggesting Wall Street is a perfectly appropriate place to protest the government's servitude to the financial district. It's certainly gotten your attention.
What's the end game, Spurm? How will we know if the protests were successful? In what way will the Corporate Satans capitulate?

[xrayzebra]

lol yoni pretending Republicans aren't bought and sold as well

Chump demonstrating what a brilliant fellow he is.

Famous one-liners, that will go down in history....:rollin

Cant prove the other guy wrong just throw something at the wall, maybe
it will stick.

[Yonivore]

**bump**

It's a legitimate question. Last I checked, Wall Street was chugging along, unfazed by the protests.


I'm suggesting Wall Street is a perfectly appropriate place to protest the government's servitude to the financial district. It's certainly gotten your attention.
What's the end game, Spurm? How will we know if the protests were successful? In what way will the Corporate Satans capitulate?

[Cry Havoc]

Chump demonstrating what a brilliant fellow he is.

Famous one-liners, that will go down in history....:rollin

Cant prove the other guy wrong just throw something at the wall, maybe
it will stick.

It's humorous, because this thread is FULL of people actively debunking the stupid shit Yoni, WC, and yourself are parroting for the GOP, but every time they do, the subject magically changes to something else that's been debunked. This thread is full of misinformation and outright lies by "conservatives" on ST.

So yes. Since an actual debate is impossible, one-liners have to do. It's the only thing that this forum even consists of any longer. One group of people are completely devoid of logical thought and will defend their party to their grave, and the other is actually involved in an active thinking process.

[Yonivore]

It's humorous, because this thread is FULL of people actively debunking the stupid shit Yoni, WC, and yourself are parroting for the GOP, but every time they do, the subject magically changes to something else that's been debunked. This thread is full of misinformation and outright lies by "conservatives" on ST.
If by one-line insults and mockery, aimed at our posts, you mean debunking; yeah, it's a fucking bloodbath.


So yes. Since an actual debate is impossible, one-liners have to do. It's the only thing that this forum even consists of any longer. One group of people are completely devoid of logical thought and will defend their party to their grave, and the other is actually involved in an active thinking process.
Very few one-liners form this side. Maybe that's all you choose to do in this forum because you have no argument with which to counter.

[Cry Havoc]

If by one-line insults and mockery, aimed at our posts, you mean debunking; yeah, it's a fucking bloodbath.

Well, it's clear from that post that you haven't read the thread. :tu Not shocking.

[Yonivore]

Well, it's clear from that post that you haven't read the thread. :tu Not shocking.
I have and no one seems to want to answer the questions.

What is the end game for the "Occupy Wall Street" protests? How will I know when they've achieved their objective? Why is the politician that received more corporate campaign money than any politician in history not being targeted by this group?

All legitimate questions.

[ElNono]

I have and no one seems to want to answer the questions.

You don't want to listen to the answers. Do you need to wait for Cain to tell you what to bitch about next?

[admiralsnackbar]

I have and no one seems to want to answer the questions.

What is the end game for the "Occupy Wall Street" protests? How will I know when they've achieved their objective? Why is the politician that received more corporate campaign money than any politician in history not being targeted by this group?

All legitimate questions.
I wonder if end-game is even a political necessity? I went to the tea-party rally here in SATX, and there was a rather obvious lack of ideological cohesiveness, with only some vague tenets of libertarianism (and a fair amount of Koch bros money) to suggest anysort of overarching solidarity. However half-assed as that movement was/is, it has been able to affect nat'l policy, so I don't see why this efflorescence of bile will deserve any less (assuming, of course, that the Koch money wasn't really necessary, which I have trouble believing).

As for targeting Obama... aren't they doing just that by going after Wall St? Or rather -- why is Obama or X GOP POTUS any different if Wall St. controls government?

[ChumpDumper]

Chump demonstrating what a brilliant fellow he is.

Famous one-liners, that will go down in history....:rollin

Cant prove the other guy wrong just throw something at the wall, maybe
it will stick.Um, I did prove you wrong with a one-liner. Yoni confirmed it -- unwittingly, of course. He has nothing resembling wit.

You couldn't even read one line.

That's why you aren't worth actually engaging. You're just ignorant and stupid and like being that way no matter what.

lol brilliant

lol famous

[Spurminator]

What's the end game, Spurm? How will we know if the protests were successful? In what way will the Corporate Satans capitulate?

Your last question proves you still can't grasp the idea of people protesting Washington from somewhere other than Washington. Even if I told you the legislative changes that might be borne out of this movement, you would suggest those changes can't be made unless the protesters are squatting on the steps of the Capitol building.

I'm sure the people involved in OWS would consider their efforts a success if it helps push through campaign finance reform, the closing of corporate tax loopholes and a re-evaluation of income tax rates. With that said, this protest, like the Tea Party protests before them, is really about people venting their frustration. From that collective frustration comes activism, and from that activism comes change.

We'll have to give it longer than three weeks to find out if any change comes of it.

[xrayzebra]

Um, I did prove you wrong with a one-liner. Yoni confirmed it -- unwittingly, of course. He has nothing resembling wit.

You couldn't even read one line.

That's why you aren't worth actually engaging. You're just ignorant and stupid and like being that way no matter what.

lol brilliant

lol famous

:sleep

[Cry Havoc]

:sleep

Accuses other people of using "one-line responses".

Posts even less than that in response.

:tu

[ElNono]

I wonder if end-game is even a political necessity? I went to the tea-party rally here in SATX, and there was a rather obvious lack of ideological cohesiveness, with only some vague tenets of libertarianism (and a fair amount of Koch bros money) to suggest anysort of overarching solidarity. However half-assed as that movement was/is, it has been able to affect nat'l policy, so I don't see why this efflorescence of bile will deserve any less (assuming, of course, that the Koch money wasn't really necessary, which I have trouble believing).

As for targeting Obama... aren't they doing just that by going after Wall St? Or rather -- why is Obama or X GOP POTUS any different if Wall St. controls government?

Agree that they're false premises. According to Darrin, the Tea Party got people talking about deficit spending. Well, just as easily these protests got people talking about pervasive corruption and inequality. But what's good for the red goose, probably isn't good for the blue gander. :rolleyes

I also agree that the criticism extends to Obama and the Dems. When Pelosi spoke in good terms about the demonstrators, it was just further proof of her disconnect with reality.

[boutons_deux]

Journalists Funded By ‘Vulture Capitalist’ Paul Singer Campaign To Smear Wall Street Protests

Journalist Who Admitted To Infiltrating Protests To ‘Mock And Undermine’ The Movement Works For A Singer-Supported Right-Wing Magazine. In a column posted last night, reporter Patrick Howley admitted that he had surreptitiously joined an anti-war spin-off group from the OccupyDC protests that planned to demonstrate at a military drone exhibit at the Smithsonian’s Air and Space museum. Howley wrote that he “infiltrated” the action and sprinted into the police along with a few protesters in order to “mock and undermine” the movement. Singer is a major donor to the Spectator, a right-wing magazine known for its role in the “Arkansas Project,” a well-funded effort to invent stories with the goal of eventually impeaching President Clinton.

Journalist Pushing To Discredit Occupy Wall Street Is Funded By Singer’s Think Tank. Josh Barro, a journalist who has attacked the 99 Percent Movement in the National Review and the New York Daily News, draws a salary from the Wriston Fellowship at the Manhattan Institute, a big business advocacy think tank in New York. Barro makes the same tired arguments, that anti-Wall Street protesters are too inarticulate and “extreme” to be taken seriously. Singer is the chairman of the Manhattan Institute, and even oversees the Wriston annual fundraiser.

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/10/10/339862/paul-singer-vulture-capitalist-journalists/

[boutons_deux]

Panic of the Plutocrats

It remains to be seen whether the Occupy Wall Street protests will change America’s direction. Yet the protests have already elicited a remarkably hysterical reaction from Wall Street, the super-rich in general, and politicians and pundits who reliably serve the interests of the wealthiest hundredth of a percent.

And this reaction tells you something important — namely, that the extremists threatening American values are what F.D.R. called “economic royalists,” not the people camping in Zuccotti Park.

Consider first how Republican politicians have portrayed the modest-sized if growing demonstrations, which have involved some confrontations with the police — confrontations that seem to have involved a lot of police overreaction — but nothing one could call a riot. And there has in fact been nothing so far to match the behavior of Tea Party crowds in the summer of 2009.

Nonetheless, Eric Cantor, the House majority leader, has denounced “mobs” and “the pitting of Americans against Americans.” The G.O.P. presidential candidates have weighed in, with Mitt Romney accusing the protesters of waging “class warfare,” while Herman Cain calls them “anti-American.” My favorite, however, is Senator Rand Paul, who for some reason worries that the protesters will start seizing iPads, because they believe rich people don’t deserve to have them.

Michael Bloomberg, New York’s mayor and a financial-industry titan in his own right, was a bit more moderate, but still accused the protesters of trying to “take the jobs away from people working in this city,” a statement that bears no resemblance to the movement’s actual goals.

And if you were listening to talking heads on CNBC, you learned that the protesters “let their freak flags fly,” and are “aligned with Lenin.”

The way to understand all of this is to realize that it’s part of a broader syndrome, in which wealthy Americans who benefit hugely from a system rigged in their favor react with hysteria to anyone who points out just how rigged the system is.

Last year, you may recall, a number of financial-industry barons went wild over very mild criticism from President Obama. They denounced Mr. Obama as being almost a socialist for endorsing the so-called Volcker rule, which would simply prohibit banks backed by federal guarantees from engaging in risky speculation. And as for their reaction to proposals to close a loophole that lets some of them pay remarkably low taxes — well, Stephen Schwarzman, chairman of the Blackstone Group, compared it to Hitler’s invasion of Poland.

And then there’s the campaign of character assassination against Elizabeth Warren, the financial reformer now running for the Senate in Massachusetts. Not long ago a YouTube video of Ms. Warren making an eloquent, down-to-earth case for taxes on the rich went viral. Nothing about what she said was radical — it was no more than a modern riff on Oliver Wendell Holmes’s famous dictum that “Taxes are what we pay for civilized society.”

But listening to the reliable defenders of the wealthy, you’d think that Ms. Warren was the second coming of Leon Trotsky. George Will declared that she has a “collectivist agenda,” that she believes that “individualism is a chimera.” And Rush Limbaugh called her “a parasite who hates her host. Willing to destroy the host while she sucks the life out of it.”

What’s going on here? The answer, surely, is that Wall Street’s Masters of the Universe realize, deep down, how morally indefensible their position is. They’re not John Galt; they’re not even Steve Jobs. They’re people who got rich by peddling complex financial schemes that, far from delivering clear benefits to the American people, helped push us into a crisis whose aftereffects continue to blight the lives of tens of millions of their fellow citizens.

Yet they have paid no price. Their institutions were bailed out by taxpayers, with few strings attached. They continue to benefit from explicit and implicit federal guarantees — basically, they’re still in a game of heads they win, tails taxpayers lose. And they benefit from tax loopholes that in many cases have people with multimillion-dollar incomes paying lower rates than middle-class families.

This special treatment can’t bear close scrutiny — and therefore, as they see it, there must be no close scrutiny. Anyone who points out the obvious, no matter how calmly and moderately, must be demonized and driven from the stage. In fact, the more reasonable and moderate a critic sounds, the more urgently he or she must be demonized, hence the frantic sliming of Elizabeth Warren.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/panic-of-the-plutocrats.html?src=ISMR_AP_LO_MST_FB&pagewanted=print

[ElNono]

http://i56.tinypic.com/2csg9py.jpg

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1391/slide_1391_20054_large.jpg

Clearly, nothing alike... :rolleyes

[boutons_deux]

Fed is owned by Wall St, it ain't going anywhere.

[Winehole23]

edpz9f5LVaY

[Yonivore]

Uw3CksMiAIs
Anti-capitalist chants read from a smart phone.

:lmao

[Wild Cobra]

edpz9f5LVaY
Is this how Barack Obama became so popular, and elected?

UJ5RZWttmoA

[ChumpDumper]

Is this how Barack Obama became so popular, and elected?

UJ5RZWttmoAThat clip isn't from The Manchurian Candidate.

[Insomniac]

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/294780_218871234843804_171556342908627_605972_1625 183659_n.jpg

[Cry Havoc]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/10/occupy-wall-street-ireland_n_1003871.html

Yep. Not making a difference. Not organized enough to be taken seriously.

[Wild Cobra]

The message is that our government is run by Wall Street. It's not a difficult message for anyone who doesn't take their cues from what they hear on the radio.
Wall street can influence things more than any one of us, but their power is still only so much.

[JoeChalupa]

Ben & Jerry's show support (http://www.benjerry.com/activism/occupy-movement/)

[Trainwreck2100]

ben & jerry's show support (http://www.benjerry.com/activism/occupy-movement/)


Ben and Jerry should use all their money to fix this then

[Yonivore]

Ben & Jerry's show support (http://www.benjerry.com/activism/occupy-movement/)
Are they going to shut down operations, lay off all their workers, and divide their assets among the masses?

That seems to be what the "Flea Partiers" want.

Yeah, heard that this morning. I like it.

"The Flea Party" Movement.

[Trainwreck2100]

Are they going to shut down operations, lay off all their workers, and divide their assets among the masses?



:tu

[resistanze]

:tu

:rollin

[Winehole23]

That clip isn't from The Manchurian Candidate.Nope. Andy Griffith as a hysterical tragedian hooked me a little.



(Small town drunk makes good, then blows it all, exposing his tragic flaws: flawless certainty and propping himself up disdainfully on others. Literal superiority consists mainly of sitting on top of the pile. Before a fall goeth pride etc. etc..)

[ElNono]

:tu

:lol

[RandomGuy]

Wall street can influence things more than any one of us, but their power is still only so much.

True. But I think it is far greater than it should be. The public good and the profit motive are not always aligned. This sniglet seems to escape a lot of people.

At least you are arguing that the financial institutions with trillions of dollars of invested assets don't have any influence.

That would be silly.

[Yonivore]

True. But I think it is far greater than it should be.
Only because politicians take their money.

The "Flea Bag Party" is barking up the wrong tree. Capitalists aren't the problem, Politicians and government are.

[RandomGuy]

Are they going to shut down operations, lay off all their workers, and divide their assets among the masses?

That seems to be what the "Flea Partiers" want.

Yeah, heard that this morning. I like it.

"The Flea Party" Movement.

Sadly predictable.

Populist anger at what is going on is "the will of the american people" and a noble undertaking, if it is something Fox "news" agrees with.

The second that anger isn't fully endorsed by GOP, Inc., it becomes a bunch of smelly radicals with silly extremist policy ideas.

:bang

Free markets are a great thing. They have given us a standard of living unequaled in human history, and for that, we should tinker with them at our peril.

That said, it is obvious to everybody that free-markets, like sporting events need referees that can't be bought out by the team with the biggest bankroll.

If the refs in the NBA were being given vast amounts of cash by the Lakers, I kind of doubt there would be many in San Antonio who would be saying that was fair.

What I find funny/sad is that you essentially want to get rid of a slew of rules and set up, what is, in essence, a sport that favors the biggest teams with the biggest bankrolls, because that would produce the best games.

Sorry, I don't buy that, and neither do a lot of other people. Deal with it.

[DarrinS]

What president got the most money from WS and then proceeded to fill his cabinet with WS advocates?

[RandomGuy]

Only because politicians take their money.

The "Flea Bag Party" is barking up the wrong tree. Capitalists aren't the problem, Politicians and government are.

I have less problem with government, and more problem with the naked money in politics.

Rules and referees are needed for any human endeavor. They aren't in and of themselves a bad thing.

[ChumpDumper]

Only because politicians take their money.

The "Flea Bag Party" is barking up the wrong tree. Capitalists aren't the problem, Politicians and government are.Herman Cain will take the money if he gets the chance.

[ChumpDumper]

What president got the most money from WS and then proceeded to fill his cabinet with WS advocates?Which president didn't do that?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Only because politicians take their money.

The "Flea Bag Party" is barking up the wrong tree. Capitalists aren't the problem, Politicians and government are.

Someone does not understand how candidates are selected and campaigned. I will give you a hint: if a candidate does not take the PAC money then he does not get considered.

I know you want to absolve your financier overlords of any wrong doing but try and educatex yourself beyond what cable news tells you.

[DarrinS]

http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/obama-economy-wall-street-campaign-financing/6/13/2011/id/35133

[ChumpDumper]

Which president didn't do that?

[boutons_deux]

"Capitalists aren't the problem, Politicians and government are"

wow, this asshole is demstrating his stupidity and ideological blindness with every post.

The candidate the spends the most money wins 90% of the time. Ameica has been and always will be blatantly for sale. It's corportocracy, not a democracy. Kock Bros alone are expected to spend $200M for the 2012 election, to get OSHA, EPA, IRS, Treasury gutted and knee-capped.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/obama-economy-wall-street-campaign-financing/6/13/2011/id/35133

How about you actually address what Chump is actually saying? I will give you a hint: he has already granted that Obama is on the take too.

That traditionally democratic constituents are taking this stand against financier's should indicate to you that they understand it as well.

[RandomGuy]

Here is something that ought to raise the hair on the back of your neck.

Little chart.

The numbers look little too, until you notice the scale.

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/290-width/images/print-edition/20110903_FNC508.gif


We have started measuring fund management companies by the trillion, and have made them waaaay less-than-transparent.

I hope they don't feel too much need to "innovate". I had my fill of hedge fund innovation with the Credit Default Swap.

[ElNono]

What president got the most money from WS

What president gave the most taxpayer money to WS?

[RandomGuy]

http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/obama-economy-wall-street-campaign-financing/6/13/2011/id/35133

http://images2.dailykos.com/i/user/2722/TMW2011-10-12colorKOS.png

[DarrinS]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/ezra-klein/StandingArt/ErickErickson.jpg?uuid=Q5lnAPQcEeCCRONahTcYzg

[Oh, Gee!!]

has anyone suggested that these protesters "love it or leave it" yet? cause that wouldn't be trite at all.

[ElNono]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/ezra-klein/StandingArt/ErickErickson.jpg?uuid=Q5lnAPQcEeCCRONahTcYzg

Looks like "sucking it up" has worked wonders for him.

I wonder if he "sucks it up" more he'll be able to sell his house.

At least he has a job, or 3.

[Winehole23]

...complaining about worthless layabouts and loafers and pre-positioning yourself as a helpless victim of the same in one jpg.

Priceless!

[Oh, Gee!!]

Breaking news on drudge: Kanye West attends O.W.S. wearing gold chains and designer clothing!!!!

[ElNono]

Cain would tell him: "If you're whining, then you're not sucking it up hard enough". Right yoni?

[cheguevara]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/ezra-klein/StandingArt/ErickErickson.jpg?uuid=Q5lnAPQcEeCCRONahTcYzg

:lmao "I work 3 jobs"

sure you do :downspin:

[clambake]

...complaining about worthless layabouts and loafers and pre-positioning yourself as a helpless victim of the same in one jpg.

Priceless!

:lol

[Wild Cobra]

LOL...

Flea Party...

I like that. Once you get the vermin, they are hard to get rid of.

Who coined that term?

[Yonivore]

LOL...

Flea Party...

I like that. Once you get the vermin, they are hard to get rid of.

Who coined that term?
It was a caller to a morning show I was listening to this morning.

[Yonivore]

:lmao "I work 3 jobs"

sure you do :downspin:
I've worked three jobs.

A full time 40 hour per week job. An evening job that gave me 20-30 hours a week, and a weekend job that gave me 16 hours a weekend.

So, fundamentally, I worked 7 days a week, during the day and 4 to 5 evenings a week. A lot of people do that.

[Yonivore]

Here is something that ought to raise the hair on the back of your neck.

Little chart.

The numbers look little too, until you notice the scale.

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/290-width/images/print-edition/20110903_FNC508.gif


We have started measuring fund management companies by the trillion, and have made them waaaay less-than-transparent.

I hope they don't feel too much need to "innovate". I had my fill of hedge fund innovation with the Credit Default Swap.
Maybe I'm oversimplifying, and I'm sure you or someone will school me on this, but aren't "asset managers" in the business of managing other people's assets? Usually thousands or millions of other people's money?

What's the problem with measuring their holdings in the trillions? Seems to me like they're a pretty healthy lot.

[ChumpDumper]

lol 86 hour week

I'm sure you walked to work in the now uphill both ways too.

[Winehole23]

Seems to me like they're a pretty healthy lot.Do you have any idea how they got that way?

[Yonivore]

Do you have any idea how they got that way?
Well, I believe they have some of my money in a couple of those funds.

[Spurminator]

He shouldn't have to work three jobs in a country like this.

[ChumpDumper]

He shouldn't have to work three jobs in a country like this.He made terrible choices and only has himself to blame.

[Yonivore]

He shouldn't have to work three jobs in a country like this.
And, see, I felt fortunate I was able to work three jobs until I was able to find one that would support me with the income it provided alone.

Nothing wrong with work.

[ElNono]

He made terrible choices and only has himself to blame.


I've worked three jobs.

Apparently, he's not alone.

[Spurminator]

And, see, I felt fortunate I was able to work three jobs until I was able to find one that would support me with the income it provided alone.

Nothing wrong with work.

If you're choosing to work three jobs despite having enough income from one to do well for yourself, you shouldn't bitch about working three jobs. If you have to work 3 jobs to get by, that's a problem.

[Spurminator]

Yoni made terrible choices that led to him being a partisan shill with no intellectual honesty. I don't care how much you make, that's no substitute for conscience.

I don't know how some of you deal with the fact that you spend every day being a tool for people who know you're stupid enough to repeat everything they feed you.

[Yonivore]

If you're choosing to work three jobs despite having enough income from one to do well for yourself, you shouldn't bitch about working three jobs. If you have to work 3 jobs to get by, that's a problem.
I had to work three jobs to get by, for awhile. I didn't see it as a problem. I appreciated the opportunity.

[ChumpDumper]

I had to work three jobs to get by, for awhile. I didn't see it as a problem. I appreciated the opportunity.lol 86 hours

[Spurminator]

I had to work three jobs to get by, for awhile. I didn't see it as a problem. I appreciated the opportunity.

Well the 1% thanks you for your naïve gratitude.

[Yonivore]

Well the 1% thanks you for your naïve gratitude.
Why is it their fault? I don't think any of the three employers, for whom I worked at the time, even qualified for the 1%.

[Spurminator]

The 1% controls the market that sets the costs of living that required you to work three jobs to keep up with it.

[ElNono]

The 1% controls the market that sets the costs of living that required you to work three jobs to keep up with it.

Not really. It was just all his poor decisions.

[Cry Havoc]

Why is it their fault? I don't think any of the three employers, for whom I worked at the time, even qualified for the 1%.

Wow. Why not? After all, their lack of prosperity is their own fault. And why were you so content to work for a company which the owners were too incompetent to be 1%ers?

[Yonivore]

Wow. Why not? After all, their lack of prosperity is their own fault. And why were you so content to work for a company which the owners were too incompetent to be 1%ers?
:lmao

[Yonivore]

The 1% controls the market that sets the costs of living that required you to work three jobs to keep up with it.
How and why do they do that, Spurm?

[Spurminator]

They are able to do it because they are coddled by the government they own.

[Yonivore]

They are able to do it because they are coddled by the government they own.
So, it's a government problem? Why aren't they protesting the government?

[ElNono]

So, it's a government problem? Why aren't they protesting the government?

How do you know they aren't? I thought you didn't know what they were protesting... :rolleyes

[Yonivore]

:lmao

Sawyer's Flub: Claims Wall Street Protests Have ‘Spread to More Than a Thousand Countries’ (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2011/10/11/diane-sawyer-claims-wall-street-protests-have-spread-more-thousand-coun#ixzz1aTrDENZ8)

[ElNono]

Conservatives watching ABC... clearly not concerned...

[Cry Havoc]

How do you know they aren't? I thought you didn't know what they were protesting... :rolleyes

[Spurminator]

So, it's a government problem? Why aren't they protesting the government?

As I've said before to you, about 300 of your posts ago, they are protesting the government. They're just not doing it in Washington. Yet, anyway.

[Cry Havoc]

:lmao

Sawyer's Flub: Claims Wall Street Protests Have ‘Spread to More Than a Thousand Countries’ (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2011/10/11/diane-sawyer-claims-wall-street-protests-have-spread-more-thousand-coun#ixzz1aTrDENZ8)

UPDATE: Cities, not countries.

We'll be sure to laugh at your typos in the future. You know, because it's such a classy thing to do, Yoni.

[DarrinS]

UPDATE: Cities, not countries.



That would still be a massive exaggeration.

[Spurminator]

As I've said before to you, about 300 of your posts ago, they are protesting the government. They're just not doing it in Washington. Yet, anyway.

My bad, guess they already are.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/occupy-dc-protesters-rally-in-freedom-plaza/2011/10/06/gIQATeeLQL_story.html

[greyforest]

As I've said before to you, about 300 of your posts ago, they are protesting the government. They're just not doing it in Washington.

What better way to protest the government than to protest the money changers who actually run it?

[Spurminator]

What better way to protest the government than to protest the money changers who actually run it?

That concept seems to be above our resident mega-shill, who, for whatever reason, continues to repeat the meme that OWS should be in Washington DC protesting the institution of Government while praising our benevolent financial district.

[ChumpDumper]

But there is an occupy DC demonstration.

Cain and his cracker are stupid.

[Yonivore]

That concept seems to be above our resident mega-shill, who, for whatever reason, continues to repeat the meme that OWS should be in Washington DC protesting the institution of Government while praising our benevolent financial district.
The only element over which they have an control is the elected official. What do they hope to protest out of the 1%?

Seriously, what is it going to look like when they get what they want?

[ChumpDumper]

The only element over which they have an control is the elected official. What do they hope to protest out of the 1%?

Seriously, what is it going to look like when they get what they want?yoni doesn't even want to imagine a world without his corporate overlords.

[ElNono]

So only protests toward government have validity now? :rolleyes

[LnGrrrR]

The only element over which they have an control is the elected official. What do they hope to protest out of the 1%?

Seriously, what is it going to look like when they get what they want?

Those poor 1%. What's the point of protesting them? It's not like they have any power over government. :cry

[DarrinS]

Breaking: 1% agrees to ambiguous demands of 0.1% OWS crowd.

Developing...

[boutons_deux]

oops

Fox News Poll Backfires: 70 Percent Support Occupy Wall Street

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/FoxOWSPoll-e1318449364748.jpg

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/10/12/342314/fox-news-poll-backfires-70-percent-support-occupy-wall-street/

====

Once again, the right-wingers here trashing OWS are in the tiny minority.

[DarrinS]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/october_2011/occupy_wall_street_protesters_36_favorable_41_unfa vorable

[Spurminator]

The only element over which they have an control is the elected official. What do they hope to protest out of the 1%?

Seriously, what is it going to look like when they get what they want?


I'm tired of explaining to you what protesting is.

[DarkReign]

Really, folks.

Doesn't this just represent the left version of tea partiers?

Isn't it part of the longstanding American tradition of getting a bunch of folks together and fussing about whatever we are pissed off about at the moment?

Extremely well said, IMO.

I dont see why FoxNews bots have such a hard time with this. Theyre protesting the idea and practices of Wall Street.

Big fucking deal. Let them have their voice, even if its uneven and lacking cohesion. A bunch of Americans are pissed off so they decided to cry about it in the streets. Been done a thousand times before with much less reason than this.

If I were a 20-something liberal with crushing student loans and watched as the wealthiest of the wealthy were given free money out of the taxpayers pocket, I might be pissed off, too.

Hell, I'm a 30-something 1%-er who is already pissed off about it. That they decided to sleep on public streets in protest and I did not doesnt make a fucking difference to me. I understand the sentiment, I even share it, but priorities are vastly different along with risk vs reward determination.

See, I know protests and community action being able to accomplish....well, anything significant died with MLK. Nothing will change in this country or in the financial system if even 10% of the American population were participating (~15 million).

Its gone. Its dead. It died before I was born. Your system of government and the citizen's ability to affect it were bought and paid for in the 70s. The government, its elected representatives and the wealthiest of the wealthy do not give a shit if you, your family and everyone you ever encountered died of some curable disease if you couldnt afford the cost-inflated medicine to cure/treat it.

...and really, when you think about what a market system is, why should they? Why should the government care that the majority of its citizens, 70% of whom do not vote or participate in the democracy, are shitty life-planners, crushed by debt and finances, living check-to-check who are one bad doctors visit from destitution?

Give me one good, financial, Constitutional or political reason why?

Leave the moral high-ground shit out of it like "Because its the right thing to do." The "right thing" is a very, very relative term, even from an American perspective.

[Yonivore]

I'm tired of explaining to you what protesting is.
To what end? Just to vent their spleens?

At least the Tea Party had an agenda to move candidates into Congress and, were -- in large part -- the reason there was such an historic shift from Democrat to Republican in 2010.

I know what protesting is; I'm just wondering what they think is going to happen as a result.

I mean, now, you've got some Flea Bagger in California (http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/11/occupy-l-a-speaker-violence-will-be-necessary-to-achieve-our-goals/) saying violence will be necessary to achieve their goal. What the fuck is their goal?

[LnGrrrR]

If I were a 20-something liberal with crushing student loans and watched as the wealthiest of the wealthy were given free money out of the taxpayers pocket, I might be pissed off, too.



Exactly.



Give me one good, financial, Constitutional or political reason why?



One could argue that if everyone is one mistake from being poor, it severely limits our ability to create a functioning economy, as everyone is saving what they can. And if they don't save and get wiped out, then it destroys wealth.

Plus, I'm pretty sure there's an argument about how an inefficient health care system is bad for our economy, but I'm not sure if that's even the case or if it's backed up by numbers.

[LnGrrrR]

Fwiw, I'm assuming that OWS folks want to get people in Congress that will actually hold these golden-parachute people to strict standards and regulations, along with some sort of plan that will ensure that they never require a bailout again without heavy strings attached.

I sincerely doubt any capability to get those types of people in Congress though.

[Yonivore]

If I were a 20-something liberal with crushing student loans and watched as the wealthiest of the wealthy were given free money out of the taxpayers pocket, I might be pissed off, too.
Yeah, but you're pissed at the wrong people.

Some of the banks didn't want the TARP money but, were forced by Treasury Secretary Paulson and gang to accept it (http://objectivistindividualist.blogspot.com/2009/04/why-did-banks-take-tarp-money.html).

Then, the current administration refused to allow them to pay it back (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123879833094588163.html).

Again, government is your villain, not the banks.

[DarkReign]

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. I could buy a million dollar house and not have to pay it back? Hot damn. I wouldn't have to pay back my car loan, or credit cards? This will make matters much, much worse.

Actually, debt forgiveness has been around loooong before Columbus landed his ass in the New World.

It is actually extremely healthy for economies to do so because it takes loss in minute packages over time instead of extreme avalanches in an extremely short period.

Point is, loss becomes predictable to an almost exact percentage. Giving an incentive to pay off debt via financial levers and tax exemptions then allows the Treasury to actually be surprised by the less-than forecasted debt relief.

No, debt relief is not an option in our current situation. America gave that option away from day one.

Yes, it would devalue the dollar in the short term. Very true.

Yes, it could have been an actual financial policy of the USA from the beginning and we would have been just fine. Actually, the US would have been the perfect model for it with all the innovation and industry literally invented in these borders. We would have outgrown the loss exponentially.

No, debt forgiveness would not be a yearly/monthly thing where people could "buy a house for one million dollars and not have to pay for it!". First and foremost, in order to buy a one million dollar house, you have to approved for the loan before you could be forgiven of the debt (ie have the means to pay for the house prior to....). Second, debt forgiveness was usually implemented after a hardship (drought, disease in ancient times...most of the time is was associated with the back taxes owed to the State), so one would have to prove hardship (just like taking your 401k out early at a penalty).

Third, and most importantly, loans would have to accounted for differently on a bank balance sheet. Since in this hypothetical, we would exist in a debt forgiveness environment with the expectation of its occurrence at X% of all outstanding loans in the system, all loans would have to be devalued by that same percentage plus a meager security percentage that would be paid back to the payee(s) at year's end if it wasnt used in the fiscal year. Right now, banks account for loans as strictly 100% assets. Meaning, they can borrow, buy and trade under the auspice that each and every single loan they hold will be paid back to them 100% + interest. They do account for loss in value and a myriad of other things that devalue their portfolio, but after the events of 2008, its pretty obvious it was never and will never be enough.

IMO, this system then creates an incentive for both the note issuer(s) and note payer(s) to work together much more so than currently if hardship exists. The issuer does not want to give shit away for free, under law they will have to at some point if the two parties cannot come to agreement on re-payment. If that means taking less than the loan is worth, the issuer (bank) would jump at the chance to renegotiate payment (unlike now). Seeing as every loan a bank makes is insured both federally and privately (even today), recouping any amount is better than forgiveness.

Win/Win. Bank gets something + insured payout + federal payout. Payee doesnt have to claim claim hardship (which devastates credit) and doesnt have to use the limited debt-forgiveness in his lifetime (yet).

Perfect example in modern day. Most people (myself included) have a home that isnt worth anything nearing what they paid for it prior to 2008. I believe the term is "upside down mortgage", where you owe the bank more than the house is worth even if you sold it. Banks today are loving this shit, loving it like Cookie Monster loves cookies. Why? Because they own the note, regardless of whether you pay it back (repossession). They gave you a loan, which they insured privately and federally, you paid very little of the now-inflated value of it back and can no longer meet the monthly payment. They own the house you live in, right now. Their private insurance company that issued the policy on the loan when it was made will pay the bank X% of the total value should the loan default. The federal government does the same, only much less.

Your principal and interest payments + insurance payment + federal payment + current value of the home = most banks today come out waaaay ahead if they repossess your house and sell it.

The banks and the financial industry won big in 2008. You, the lowly fucker who actually had to take a loan out to buy a house (poor slob) did not.

[DarkReign]

Yeah, but you're pissed at the wrong people.

Some of the banks didn't want the TARP money but, were forced by Treasury Secretary Paulson and gang to accept it (http://objectivistindividualist.blogspot.com/2009/04/why-did-banks-take-tarp-money.html).

Then, the current administration refused to allow them to pay it back (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123879833094588163.html).

Again, government is your villain, not the banks.

Please. Lets not retread this bullshit. I fully realize that SOME banks didnt want TARP money, I saw the TBTF movie, too.

Bottom line: Wealthy motherfuckers werent happy trading billions, they wanted trillions so they cooked up fancy financial packages of bullshit, inflated assets and robbed each other of their wealth until the taxpayers had to bail them out wholesale when the markets caught on to the bloated center of junk assets permeating every corner of the financial industry. Are all guilty? No. Are most? Yes.

Dont bother typing to me with a conflicting assessment of the situation. Your point will be fall on very deaf ears.

[Yonivore]

Please. Lets not retread this bullshit. I fully realize that SOME banks didnt want TARP money, I saw the TBTF movie, too.

Bottom line: Wealthy motherfuckers werent happy trading billions, they wanted trillions so they cooked up fancy financial packages of bullshit, inflated assets and robbed each other of their wealth until the taxpayers had to bail them out wholesale when the markets caught on to the bloated center of junk assets permeating every corner of the financial industry. Are all guilty? No. Are most? Yes.

Dont bother typing to me with a conflicting assessment of the situation. Your point will be fall on very deaf ears.
I wasn't in favor of bailouts. Who represents the taxpayers that "had to bail them out wholesale?" That's right, Government.

They could have let them fail. Why did they force them to take TARP money and why did they then refuse pay back?

[DarkReign]

I wasn't in favor of bailouts. Who represents the taxpayers that "had to bail them out wholesale?" That's right, Government.

They could have let them fail. Why did they force them to take TARP money and why did they then refuse pay back?

Good point. We agree. Politicians are puppets who adhere to their pay-masters. The pay-masters said "Give us the taxpayers money!"

Politicians said "Yes".

They win. We lose. But if you think these same pay-masters wont pull that same lever again given half-a-chance in the near future, thats where our agreement ends.

You choose to blame government solely and let the fuckers who profited wildly, as in "never before seen wealth consolidation in the history of the planet" off the hook will never make sense.

They are thieves. Extremely wealthy thieves, but thieves nonetheless. Government was put in a precarious position as our nation's entire store of treasure was, is and will always be wrapped up in this overly tangled and conspicuous web of financial, loosely-controlled chaos we call a stock market/financial system. The captains of financial industry now know who will blink in a game of chicken and it wasnt them.

...and all the "hell" they caught were 20-something hippies sleeping on their streets. Just another day in Greenwich if you ask me.

[ElNono]

yoni would like to get rid of the middlemen (government) so he can be owned outright by the pay-masters. Anything he can do to lick the pay-master boots, he's willing to do.

[Yonivore]

Good point. We agree. Politicians are puppets who adhere to their pay-masters. The pay-masters said "Give us the taxpayers money!"

Politicians said "Yes".

They win. We lose. But if you think these same pay-masters wont pull that same lever again given half-a-chance in the near future, thats where our agreement ends.

You choose to blame government solely and let the fuckers who profited wildly, as in "never before seen wealth consolidation in the history of the planet" off the hook will never make sense.

They are thieves. Extremely wealthy thieves, but thieves nonetheless. Government was put in a precarious position as our nation's entire store of treasure was, is and will always be wrapped up in this overly tangled and conspicuous web of financial, loosely-controlled chaos we call a stock market/financial system. The captains of financial industry now know who will blink in a game of chicken and it wasnt them.
I think there's still a disconnect. Politicians manipulated the rules, the regulations, and Wall Street (MADE THEM TAKE THE MONEY/WOULDN'T ALLOW THEM TO PAY IT BACK).

If you want to fix the problem, fix Washington.


...and all the "hell" they caught were 20-something hippies sleeping on their streets. Just another day in Greenwich if you ask me.
Couldn't agree more. :tu

[LnGrrrR]

If you want to fix the problem, fix Washington.



The possibility of that happening is akin to saying, "Instead of bitching about your team's QB, why don't you learn to throw a football, then try to take over the job yourself?"

[Yonivore]

The possibility of that happening is akin to saying, "Instead of bitching about your team's QB, why don't you learn to throw a football, then try to take over the job yourself?"
Better chances than thinking yelling at a bunch of rich people will make things change. Hell, even if you manage to bring one down, the politicians will just find another sugar daddy.

[Yonivore]

:lmao

veGO0P0LBrw

[ChumpDumper]

yoni thinks he can still go pro.

[ElNono]

MADE THEM TAKE THE MONEY/WOULDN'T ALLOW THEM TO PAY IT BACK

That some didn't want it doesn't mean all didn't want it. Heck, AIG doesn't make it without the bailout. But you knew that.

[ElNono]

Better chances than thinking yelling at a bunch of rich people will make things change. Hell, even if you manage to bring one down, the politicians will just find another sugar daddy.

So you agree the sugar daddys are part of the problem. Progress.

[Wild Cobra]

:lmao

veGO0P0LBrw
LOL...

For the first few seconds, I thought it was the same one as before. Same video, but different subtitles.

I love it.

[DarkReign]

I think there's still a disconnect. Politicians manipulated the rules, the regulations, and Wall Street (MADE THEM TAKE THE MONEY/WOULDN'T ALLOW THEM TO PAY IT BACK).

The government only made about 10 banks take TARP money (like Wells Fargo, JP Morgan, etc).

The government did that because taxpayer funded bailouts of financial institutions is/was unprecedented. The government could not give trillions to this bank and that bank on a limited basis. That would be collusion by the government against private industry.

So, in order to legally and politically bailout the companies that needed it, the government had to give money to ALL banks and institutions so as to give the look and feel of impartiality.

Its not hard to understand.


If you want to fix the problem, fix Washington.

Where you and I will always disagree could not be better stated than this above statement. Youre still convinced the problem is fixable, which it is not, with the added short-sightedness of thinking our government is the problem.

Our government is operating exactly as it should, exactly as it has been paid to do.

[Yonivore]

The government only made about 10 banks take TARP money (like Wells Fargo, JP Morgan, etc).

The government did that because taxpayer funded bailouts of financial institutions is/was unprecedented. The government could not give trillions to this bank and that bank on a limited basis. That would be collusion by the government against private industry.

So, in order to legally and politically bailout the companies that needed it, the government had to give money to ALL banks and institutions so as to give the look and feel of impartiality.

Its not hard to understand.
You just described Government as the problem.


Where you and I will always disagree could not be better stated than this above statement. Youre still convinced the problem is fixable, which it is not, with the added short-sightedness of thinking our government is the problem.

Our government is operating exactly as it should, exactly as it has been paid to do.
See above.

[Yonivore]

LOL...

For the first few seconds, I thought it was the same one as before. Same video, but different subtitles.

I love it.
And, in that vein...

Here's to a long life for Occupy Wall Street (http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111013/OPINION02/710139987)


“The Tea Party’s splendid successes, which have altered the nation’s political vocabulary and agenda, have inspired a countermovement — Occupy Wall Street. Conservatives should rejoice and wish for it long life, abundant publicity and sufficient organization to endorse congressional candidates deemed worthy. All Democrats eager for OWS’ imprimatur, step forward. In scale, OWS’ demonstrations-cum-encampments are to Tea Party events as Pittsburg, Kan., is to Pittsburgh, Pa. So far, probably fewer people have participated in all of them combined than attended just one Tea Party rally, that of Sept. 12, 2009, on the Washington Mall. In comportment, OWS is to the Tea Party as Lady Gaga is to Lord Chesterfield: Blocking the Brooklyn Bridge was not persuasion modeled on Tea Party tactics. Still, OWS’ defenders correctly say it represents progressivism’s spirit and intellect.”
That's gonna leave a mark.

[DarkReign]

This is why I have become a cynical, hateful cut-throat son of a bitch the past 2 years.

Youre either playing for the winning team or youre losing. There is no middle ground, as much as people like to fantasize there is. The world is changing rapidly, IMO. Social changes that used to take decades now only take years.

I believe that most Americans still think things will get better, that all of these periphery issues will resolve themselves and that it will all work out.

I am of the belief this is not going to work out. TARP, stimulus, debt...all of these things have always been characterized as "kicking the can down the road".

IMO, we are running out of road. Things arent getting better, the US is not outgrowing the ever-increasing debt and what it takes to service that debt.

I honestly believe that the American people, in general, think the worst is over. I think the American people are ignorant, consumerist slaves who live in constant denial of their place in life. Everyone seems to believe that theyre really important, that they are a big deal.

No, youre not. You arent worth the air you breathe, the natural gas you burn or the gas in your car in the grand scheme of things. Youre an oxygen sucking consumer that needs these distractions in order to dissuade you from ever questioning or caring about what really matters, keeping your attention long enough to finance one purchase to the next, until you die (hopefully sooner than later).

All of the decisions made by Bush and Obama, the stimulus package, the Bush Tax Cuts, the War on Terror, TARP, Medicare changes, Obamacare, the very realistic possibility of another stimulus...

None of those decisions have been felt yet. Really felt. Give it 10 years from now when our national debt reaches nearly $20 trillion and the government shuts down every other quarter because they cant pay their bills and commitments.

I dont know what its going to look like. I dont think its going to be Mad Max style or anything, but I do know this. Those families who are losing today will be dying and living on the street then.

Free advice: Get busy winning.

[Wild Cobra]

That's gonna leave a mark.
You mean like shitting on a police car?

[DarkReign]

You just described Government as the problem.


See above.

I did no such thing.

The problem is government is operating exactly as it has been paid to.

An inquisitive mind would ask "Who is doing the paying?". A partisan mind would just blame the government for everything.

[Wild Cobra]

If the OWS crowd was smart, they would consider these words next year:

SqOXj8VTLIE

[boutons_deux]

WC, another right-winger conned by St Ronnie's actor's delivery and smooth words. The man is like Hollywood, a total fake, a myth.

St Ronnie the Tax Raiser wouldn't stand a chance of sniffing the nomination by today's Repug/tea baggers.

[greyforest]

If the OWS crowd was smart, they would consider these words next year:

SqOXj8VTLIE

"Ronald Regan" (lol) was the first to sell my generation down the river with an unrecoverable debt spiral:

http://websitebuilding.biz/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/total-us-debt-vs-gdp.png

Your generation took out those loans, and long after you are all dead my generation will continue to pay that bill. Do you think that is ethical?

[Yonivore]

"Ronald Regan" (lol) was the first to sell my generation down the river with an unrecoverable debt spiral:
It wasn't Reagan. Every balanced budget he submitted to Tip O'Neill's House was declared Dead On Arrival by the Speaker, himself. I remember the televised fanfare -- I even think I remember a report where Reagan's proposed budget was loaded into an ambulance in front of the Capitol.

Every budget passed during the Reagan administration was a product of the Democrat House of Representatives. Blame them.

Incidentally, every balanced budget passed under the Clinton administration was a product of Newt Gingrich's House of Representatives. You think Bill Clinton was a disciplined spender? Anybody remember the debt-heavy fiasco he allowed his wife to develop in private? Hillarycare?


Your generation took out those loans, and long after you are all dead my generation will continue to pay that bill. Do you think that is ethical?
Quit voting Democrats into places where they control the purse strings and the debt would disappear in due time.

[boutons_deux]

You Lie, Yoni.

dubya didn't fund two fphony/botched wars, but rather slashed taxes on the corps and wealthy, while giving the corps the give of repatriating $300B profits at 5% tax.

made it illegal for Medicare/Medicaid to negotiate BigPharma,

unfunded Medicare part D,

etc. etc.

You Lie, Yoni

[MannyIsGod]

I did no such thing.

The problem is government is operating exactly as it has been paid to.

An inquisitive mind would ask "Who is doing the paying?". A partisan mind would just blame the government for everything.

:toast

[Yonivore]

:toast
Are those doing the paying, breaking any laws? No. They're merely following the scheme developed by politicians and government.

It's a hell of a lot easier to control 535 people, if we'd just get off our lazy asses and start taking elections seriously, than it is to control an amoebic, constantly fluctuating, commercial/financial/industrial sector.

You're not going to get control of the relationship between business and government any other way than getting control of government.

[boutons_deux]

"start taking elections seriously"

won't make any difference. UCA,finance sector, capitalists OWN the DC, nobody who gets elected. Even who gets nominated depends on corporate money to win. UCA votes with their $$$, vastly overwhelming Human-Americans' votes.

recent example: 70% of REPUGS polled as wanting the EPA untouched, while Repug politicians intend to gut EPA, OSHA, IRS etc so UCA can pollute and devastate without penalty.

The system is irrretrievably lost.

[ChumpDumper]

Are those doing the paying, breaking any laws? No. They're merely following the scheme developed by politicians and government.And by themselves.

Sorry, business has influenced or even dictated the US government and its laws from the very beginning. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

[LnGrrrR]

Are those doing the paying, breaking any laws? No. They're merely following the scheme developed by politicians and government.

And surely, they had no influence on those schemes in the first place...


It's a hell of a lot easier to control 535 people, if we'd just get off our lazy asses and start taking elections seriously, than it is to control an amoebic, constantly fluctuating, commercial/financial/industrial sector.

And it's even easier to control those 535 people if you can contribute millions of dollars to their campaign, right? That's not even mentioning that when you DO vote your rep in, there's no guarantee that he/she will vote exactly as you wish.


You're not going to get control of the relationship between business and government any other way than getting control of government.

Why do you think it's easier to control government than it is to control business? I think they're both too monolithic to control.

[Yonivore]

And surely, they had no influence on those schemes in the first place...
If you could legally position yourself, advantageously, with the government, would you? I would.


And it's even easier to control those 535 people if you can contribute millions of dollars to their campaign, right? That's not even mentioning that when you DO vote your rep in, there's no guarantee that he/she will vote exactly as you wish.
Guess you'd better vet your candidates a bit better. We still don't know much about President Goldman Sachs background.


Why do you think it's easier to control government than it is to control business? I think they're both too monolithic to control.
Really? Your U. S. Representative has to win a popular election, every two years, in a geographic area of the country that is relatively small. Maybe if people paid more attention, at the local level, about the politics of their representative, instead of their tenure and perceived power in Washington, they'd do themselves a better service.

Same with Senators. They have to win a statewide election.

Companies aren't subject to voters except where you withhold commerce. But, if you put people in office that are corrupt and willing to funnel billions to private interests in exchange for millions in bribes, kickbacks or campaign donations; you (we) get what we deserve.

I believe, out of 350 million people, there are 535 that exist who would not be corrupted by such an arrangement. But, that's just me. Some of our legislators actually come home worth about as much as they did when they won election.

But, in the case of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, it wasn't even the greed of the private sector. It was the idiocy of government bureaucrats and corrupt Democrats that fought off all attempts to bring them under control as they accumulated the biggest pile of toxic debt in history.

[ChumpDumper]

Guess you'd better vet your candidates a bit better. We still don't know much about President Goldman Sachs background.You don't know much about him because you are naturally and willfully ignorant and stupid.

And seriously, you're trying to pretend the Bush administration was completely devoid of Wall Street influence. Even more stupid.

[LnGrrrR]

Guess you'd better vet your candidates a bit better. We still don't know much about President Goldman Sachs background.

If the only requirement were "Least likely to corrupt" it would make choosing our politicians a lot easier, wouldn't it?


I believe, out of 350 million people, there are 535 that exist who would not be corrupted by such an arrangement. But, that's just me. Some of our legislators actually come home worth about as much as they did when they won election.

How many of our senators aren't already rich? I would say the number of rich people in Congress (especially the Senate) outweighs the "normies".


But, in the case of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, it wasn't even the greed of the private sector. It was the idiocy of government bureaucrats and corrupt Democrats that fought off all attempts to bring them under control as they accumulated the biggest pile of toxic debt in history.

I'm pretty sure that everyone had a hand in that fiasco.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

"Ronald Regan" (lol) was the first to sell my generation down the river with an unrecoverable debt spiral:

http://websitebuilding.biz/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/total-us-debt-vs-gdp.png

Your generation took out those loans, and long after you are all dead my generation will continue to pay that bill. Do you think that is ethical?

His generation doesn't give a fuck.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If you could legally position yourself, advantageously, with the government, would you? I would.

Then you are part of the problem big fucking time. I have been given authority and made it a steadfast point to not use it as an opportunity for self promotion. Think George Washington who also happened to be antipolitical party.

[Yonivore]

Then you are part of the problem big fucking time. I have been given authority and made it a steadfast point to not use it as an opportunity for self promotion. Think George Washington who also happened to be antipolitical party.
I guess I should have been more clear.

If you're a company and there is a legal advantage to be had from government, are you doing your stockholders a disservice by not taking advantage of that legal benefit while other companies stick their snouts in the trough.

Remember, we're talking about a legal process, developed by government, and offered to the private sector.

Personally, I've never accepted government assistance as an individual, even when I qualified.

[Yonivore]

His generation doesn't give a fuck.
I didn't vote for Tip O'Neill or Nancy Pelosi.

[greyforest]

Quit voting Democrats into places where they control the purse strings and the debt would disappear in due time.

I couldn't vote until 2003 when debt was already 300% of GDP. Voting doesn't help or do anything btw.

[Yonivore]

I couldn't vote until 2003 when debt was already 300% of GDP. Voting doesn't help or do anything btw.
Good, then I hope you continue not voting.

[ElNono]

It wasn't Reagan.

Sure it was. He could've stood up for his principles and vetoed what he didn't like. But he signed off on them. That makes them his.

[ElNono]

I guess I should have been more clear.

You're always clear yoni. Wrong, but clear.

[Cry Havoc]

Good, then I hope you continue not voting.

You are a pathetic human being. Seriously. I'm ashamed of you.

[greyforest]

Good, then I hope you continue not voting.

The two party system is beyond repair. Only an imbecile would think otherwise.

You do a great job of ignoring basically every logical point I make. Have you ever considered that you are wrong? How is it my fault that I inherited your debts? You rarely answer any of my questions.


Your generation took out those loans, and long after you are all dead my generation will continue to pay that bill. Do you think that is ethical?

[ElNono]

The two party system is beyond repair. Only an imbecile would think otherwise.

You do a great job of ignoring basically every logical point I make. Have you ever considered that you are wrong? How is it my fault that I inherited your debts? You rarely answer any of my questions.

dishonest yoni isn't interested in addressing logical points.

[Cry Havoc]

dishonest yoni isn't interested in addressing logical points.

He's really not interested in doing anything except circlejerking with DarrinS and WC.

[JoeChalupa]

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/296506_258452130857631_109496509086528_627741_1427 258776_n.jpg

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

http://blog.mlive.com/business_impact/2008/09/large_20080926-ap-protest-new-york-bailout.jpg

People my age who are like this piss me off but at the same time remind me that I have an advantage once I'm done with school. Judging by the dumb hair cut and the effeminate wardrobe, this is probably someone who got a BA in liberal arts or political science with an emphasis on diversity or some other weird shit who thought college was the time to "express and find himself", thought that graduating with a good GPA automatically led to a 50k+ a year job, and thinks that his degree makes him too good for all the jobs he actually can get.

I feel bad for the people who've had their job/pay yanked out from under them and shipped overseas, but the rabid amount of unemployed college grads angry about not having a well paying job right out of school don't deserve any sympathy. Worthless majors like political science or English without any addition schooling have never led to any well paying jobs. Quit blaming the economy for choosing a worthless degree.

[ElNono]

People my age who are like this piss me off but at the same time remind me that I have an advantage once I'm done with school. Judging by the dumb hair cut and the effeminate wardrobe, this is probably someone who got a BA in liberal arts or political science with an emphasis on diversity or some other weird shit who thought college was the time to "express and find himself", thought that graduating with a good GPA automatically led to a 50k+ a year job, and thinks that his degree makes him too good for all the jobs he actually can get.

I feel bad for the people who've had their job/pay yanked out from under them and shipped overseas, but the rabid amount of unemployed college grads angry about not having a well paying job right out of school don't deserve any sympathy. Worthless majors like political science or English without any addition schooling have never led to any well paying jobs. Quit blaming the economy for choosing a worthless degree.

Maybe he's an accountant...



























:lol

[Drachen]

Maybe he's an accountant...



























:lol

No joke, this was honestly my thought due to his nerdy haircut and bad clothes.

[greyforest]

I feel bad for the people who've had their job/pay yanked out from under them and shipped overseas, but the rabid amount of unemployed college grads angry about not having a well paying job right out of school don't deserve any sympathy.

Did you know that student loans are one of the only kinds of debt which cannot be absolved by bankruptcy?

Some recent grads are in the hole over 6 figures, even grads with non-useless degrees who wish they could declare bankruptcy but cannot.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/2009-05-12-studentloans13_N.htm

If you close your eyes these kids aren't going to go away, and their problems aren't going to be solved.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Tbh the big reason I am an accounting major is because it's a reliable career path that always has a need regardless of the economic climate. I actually find the stuff boring as fuck (outside of building ERP databases since it's the only thing in accounting I've run into that's been remotely challenging) and I'm double majoring in finance so I can shift my career path in a better economy.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

No joke, this was honestly my thought due to his nerdy haircut and bad clothes.
He's dressed more like a hipster than a nerd, but he's not dressed like a stereotypical accountant at all. A stereotypical accountant dresses extremely plain and conservatively. The "bad clothes" an accountant wears are a different kind of bad than the clothes that dude is wearing.

[Agloco]

Tbh the big reason I am an accounting major is because it's a reliable career path that always has a need regardless of the economic climate. I actually find the stuff boring as fuck (outside of building ERP databases since it's the only thing in accounting I've run into that's been remotely challenging) and I'm double majoring in finance so I can shift my career path in a better economy.

Just remember to blame yourself if there aren't any jobs available once you graduate.

Sincerely,

Yoni, Cain, et al.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Did you know that student loans are one of the only kinds of debt which cannot be absolved by bankruptcy?

Some recent grads are in the hole over 6 figures, even grads with non-useless degrees who wish they could declare bankruptcy but cannot.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/2009-05-12-studentloans13_N.htm

If you close your eyes these kids aren't going to go away, and their problems aren't going to be solved.
Then go to DC and protest the corrupt politicians deregulating banks and privatizing student loans. Don't protest Wall Street for taking advantage of the great investing opportunity the government shouldn't have given them.

The bankers/investors on Wall Street have always been self interested greedy people willing to rape and pillage anyone if it means more money in their pockets. That isn't some new thing. The reason why it's all the sudden a problem is because Bush (and Obama to a lesser extent) gave them the power to do outrageous things like artificially inflate the economy while investing in it crashing.

[Agloco]

Please. Lets not retread this bullshit. I fully realize that SOME banks didnt want TARP money, I saw the TBTF movie, too.

Bottom line: Wealthy motherfuckers werent happy trading billions, they wanted trillions so they cooked up fancy financial packages of bullshit, inflated assets and robbed each other of their wealth until the taxpayers had to bail them out wholesale when the markets caught on to the bloated center of junk assets permeating every corner of the financial industry. Are all guilty? No. Are most? Yes.

Dont bother typing to me with a conflicting assessment of the situation. Your point will be fall on very deaf ears.


Good point. We agree. Politicians are puppets who adhere to their pay-masters. The pay-masters said "Give us the taxpayers money!"

Politicians said "Yes".

They win. We lose. But if you think these same pay-masters wont pull that same lever again given half-a-chance in the near future, thats where our agreement ends.

You choose to blame government solely and let the fuckers who profited wildly, as in "never before seen wealth consolidation in the history of the planet" off the hook will never make sense.

They are thieves. Extremely wealthy thieves, but thieves nonetheless. Government was put in a precarious position as our nation's entire store of treasure was, is and will always be wrapped up in this overly tangled and conspicuous web of financial, loosely-controlled chaos we call a stock market/financial system. The captains of financial industry now know who will blink in a game of chicken and it wasnt them.

...and all the "hell" they caught were 20-something hippies sleeping on their streets. Just another day in Greenwich if you ask me.


This is why I have become a cynical, hateful cut-throat son of a bitch the past 2 years.

Youre either playing for the winning team or youre losing. There is no middle ground, as much as people like to fantasize there is. The world is changing rapidly, IMO. Social changes that used to take decades now only take years.

I believe that most Americans still think things will get better, that all of these periphery issues will resolve themselves and that it will all work out.

I am of the belief this is not going to work out. TARP, stimulus, debt...all of these things have always been characterized as "kicking the can down the road".

IMO, we are running out of road. Things arent getting better, the US is not outgrowing the ever-increasing debt and what it takes to service that debt.

I honestly believe that the American people, in general, think the worst is over. I think the American people are ignorant, consumerist slaves who live in constant denial of their place in life. Everyone seems to believe that theyre really important, that they are a big deal.

No, youre not. You arent worth the air you breathe, the natural gas you burn or the gas in your car in the grand scheme of things. Youre an oxygen sucking consumer that needs these distractions in order to dissuade you from ever questioning or caring about what really matters, keeping your attention long enough to finance one purchase to the next, until you die (hopefully sooner than later).

All of the decisions made by Bush and Obama, the stimulus package, the Bush Tax Cuts, the War on Terror, TARP, Medicare changes, Obamacare, the very realistic possibility of another stimulus...

None of those decisions have been felt yet. Really felt. Give it 10 years from now when our national debt reaches nearly $20 trillion and the government shuts down every other quarter because they cant pay their bills and commitments.

I dont know what its going to look like. I dont think its going to be Mad Max style or anything, but I do know this. Those families who are losing today will be dying and living on the street then.

Free advice: Get busy winning.

DR cutting to the chase here with a reality check. Someone get this man a beer and cigar please.