Dear Aaron Rodgers [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

Kirk Nowitzki

10-10-2011, 03:19 PM

colts go from being a yearly 12 win team, to a team that would be lucky to win more than 1 game.

i'd love to see what Manning coulda done if he had a squad like Worthlessburger has on the steelers

legit defense
legit coaching
a WR that doesnt choke in big moments (Ward as opposed to Harrison/Wayne)

I say 4-5 rings.

Honestly Manning should've picked someone else in free agency this year. I know he's loyal to Indy but the right thing for his career would have been to go somewhere that actually gives a damn about filling out the roster and not just riding the long dick of the GOAT QB to 12 wins every year.

Colts players are already talking about needing to get "that win" like they know one is maybe all they're gonna get.

LnGrrrR

10-10-2011, 03:22 PM

GOAT :lol

Kirk Nowitzki

10-10-2011, 04:34 PM

GOAT :lol

Whatever world you live in, they must hand out free crack on every street corner because the world I live in saw Brady go down for a season and the Pats still win 11 games. If Manning is the difference between 0 and 12-14 wins, how is he not the GOAT?

That Manning basically took this same team to the Super Bowl in 2009 is fucking legendary.

stretch

10-10-2011, 04:59 PM

Whatever world you live in, they must hand out free crack on every street corner because the world I live in saw Brady go down for a season and the Pats still win 11 games. If Manning is the difference between 0 and 12-14 wins, how is he not the GOAT?

That Manning basically took this same team to the Super Bowl in 2009 is fucking legendary.

well according to pats fans, since the Pats were 16-0 the year before, only dropping 5 more games the next year is worse than dropping 9-10 more like the Colts are this year.

the other argument is "matt cassell is good!!!!!!!!!!!!! :madrun"

bull. he blows and having him as opposed to Kerry Collins is not a 4-5 game difference. I'm pretty sure Collins could have found a way to go at least 8-8 with that Pats team, which speaks more as to how shitty the Colts are without Peyton, as he was bound for a 1-15 year in Indy.

Kirk Nowitzki

10-10-2011, 05:39 PM

bull. he blows and having him as opposed to Kerry Collins is not a 4-5 game difference. I'm pretty sure Collins could have found a way to go at least 8-8 with that Pats team, which speaks more as to how shitty the Colts are without Peyton, as he was bound for a 1-15 year in Indy.

Indy's real problem is that Bill Polian is so high on himself he'll literally waste his best player's prime waiting for his own draft picks to either pan out or bust. And most of them since 2006 have busted. Only guys I really like since then are Collie, Garcon, Angerer and Drake Nevis. Donald Brown has zero field vision, Jerry Hughes isn't an NFL caliber defensive end and Anthony Gonzalez is about as sturdy as Bob Sanders. Not to mention they traded a 1st rounder to draft that piece of shit Tony Ugoh. Polian has unquestionably failed the Colts in the last five years and really only still has a job because Peyton Manning is apparently good enough to swing 12 games in your favor every year.

They've let a lot of good guys walk in free agency just so Polian can try to show off his big dick drafting skills and it hasn't been working out. And they've also overpaid a lot of guys who didn't deserve the money. Hayden got like 40 million for pick sixing Rex Grossman in the Super Bowl and I can name about 15 other DBs who could have done the same thing off the top of my head right now. They paid Bob Sanders a huge wad of cash to only get about six games played out of him, great move. Gary Brackett, the only linebacker Indy has resigned since who knows when, it sitting on IR watching Pat Angerer basically end his career in Indy. And now Melvin Bullitt got a little bit of a raise only to wind up on IR again for the same injury as last year.

And don't even get me started on the coaching. Dungy was a good coach and a respectable guy but Mike Vanderjagt wasn't kidding when he went on TV and said the mild-mannered thing doesn't work in the NFL. Jim Caldwell is absolute trash as a coach and so is most of his staff. Honestly I think Indy needs to fire everyone from Polian on down and start fresh. Manning needs his Bill Walsh, Mike Shanahan, Bill Belichick-type of coach that all of the greats have had. I'm 100% sure Caldwell could have easily coached Montana, Elway or Brady out of a Super Bowl win if he was their coach the way he did it to Manning in 2009. Thing is I don't really think there's a coach out there like that. They'll probably go after Jeff Fisher. Basically they just need a coach who's willing to let Manning do his thing because it clearly works. I'd love to see what this defense could do in a traditional 4-3 and not this Tampa-2 crap that on-the-weekly showcases Jacob Lacey giving 7-10 yard cushions and getting burned by Pro Bowlers like they're playing Madden.

hitmanyr2k

10-10-2011, 05:40 PM

i'd love to see what Manning coulda done if he had a squad like Worthlessburger has on the steelers

legit defense
legit coaching
a WR that doesnt choke in big moments (Ward as opposed to Harrison/Wayne)

I say 4-5 rings.

Peyton Manning would get his ass busted in Pittsburgh. The Steelers have had one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL for awhile now. Manning would be crying and pointing fingers in no time.

Kirk Nowitzki

10-10-2011, 05:43 PM

pawe

10-10-2011, 06:16 PM

Id go Rodgers over Manning (and Im talking about Peyton Manning for those who are homerly confused) as the best QB in the NFL.

Rodgers is stronger and a runner and his accuracy is top notch.

TIMMYtoZO

10-10-2011, 08:09 PM

Rodgers is probably better than Eli...in the first 3 quarters. In the 4th, which is the quarter that defines greatness, Eli>>>>>>>>>>>Rodgers.

pawe

10-10-2011, 08:13 PM

Rodgers is probably better than Eli...in the first 3 quarters. In the 4th, which is the quarter that defines greatness, Eli>>>>>>>>>>>Rodgers.

LOL confused

stretch

10-10-2011, 10:28 PM

Peyton Manning would get his ass busted in Pittsburgh. The Steelers have had one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL for awhile now. Manning would be crying and pointing fingers in no time.

he hasnt had a legit line for years now. the only reason he doesnt get sacked or have to run for his life so frequently is because hes so good at his pre-snap reads he makes good adjustments, and checks down quickly. worthlessburger sucks ass in that department, not to mention making his line look worse than they actually are, because he has no idea what the fuck a pocket is, so the second he feels a bit of discomfort, instead of stepping up, he just rolls out and has to run for his life.

fuck worthlessburger and the ridiculous number of excuses that get made for him on a yearly basis, when in reality, he is the exact same player as Tony Romo... solid overall QB that is good at making plays out of nothing, but also is equally good at throwing games away with dumbass turnovers. only difference is Romo doesnt get excuses made for him like ben, despite ben actually having less legit excuses for his fuck-ups than Romo.

LnGrrrR

10-10-2011, 11:31 PM

Montana says hi, btw.

:lol Manning singlehandedly worth 10 wins

Kirk Nowitzki

10-11-2011, 12:04 AM

Montana says hi, btw.

:lol Manning singlehandedly worth 10 wins

Look me up in five weeks. Right now he's singlehandedly worth 5, which according to Pats fan logic puts him right there with Brady since they were only -5 without him.

DUNCANownsKOBE

10-11-2011, 03:50 AM

right, because the Patriots would have still gone 11-5 if Curtis Painter/Kerry Collins was Tom Brady's backup rather than a QB who made the pro bowl last year

Kirk Nowitzki

10-11-2011, 05:24 AM

right, because the Patriots would have still gone 11-5 if Curtis Painter/Kerry Collins was Tom Brady's backup rather than a QB who made the pro bowl last year

This is entirely a bullshit claim as you're retroactively grading Cassel a Pro Bowler. When he became the Patriots starting QB, he'd been warming the bench for at least a solid seven years in both college and the NFL. Cassel also took over for a team that was a missed sack and helmet catch away from being a 19-0 Super Bowl winner. He also had Randy Moss to throw to.

The Colts have no running game and receivers clearly made to look better than they really are by Manning. Wayne has had some big catches and Garcon is on pace for a big year without Manning, but Clark and Collie have pretty much disappeared from their offense. The defense obviously has nothing outside of Freeney and Mathis.

Collins took the 2008 Titans to 10-0. I'm sure he could have got that Patriots team to 11-5 just as easily as Cassel. Painter's only NFL experience before this season was the now infamous blowing of the Colts perfect season in 2009 in which he played with the second stringers and pretty much owned himself as a rookie. His completion percentage and ball security sucks, but he didn't take a sack or fumble against the Chiefs on Sunday, so maybe he's finally getting it down. I don't think they'll be able to trade him the way the Pats did Cassel unless he starts winning games. I'm just saying the Pats future Pro Bowl QB didn't get them to 11-5 by himself kind of the same way Curtis Painter hasn't sunk the Colts to 0-5 by himself.

DUNCANownsKOBE

10-11-2011, 06:12 AM

Matt Cassel was good enough during the 2008 season to earn a starting job and a franchise QB type contract the next season. He put up 21 TDs, 11 picks and 3600+ passing yards in his first season ever as a starter. Anyone trying to act like 2008 Brady wasn't replaced by a MUCH better QB than 2011 Manning has been replaced by so far is delusional.

I figured you'd pull the Randy Moss card as if Curtis Painter doesn't have Reggie Wayne to throw to. In Dwayne Bowe's first healthy season with Matt Cassel, he led the NFL in receiving touchdowns (15) and had 1100 yards. Cassel would be able to utilize Wayne A LOT better than Painter can. Same goes for Dallas Clark as Moeaki had a surprise rookie season with Cassel.

Talking about how much shittier Painter is than Cassel only helps my argument. If Painter was Brady's backup in 2008 as oppose to Cassel, the Patriots would have been lucky to sniff .500 that year. If Matt Cassel was the Colts' QB the last few games, they'd have a win. The whole premise of my argument is that simplifying the two scenarios while ignoring the fact one QB had a MUCH better, more prepared backup is retarded.

The 2007 Patriots went 16-0 and made the superbowl. Matt Cassel came in, got 5 less wins with the easiest schedule in the NFL that year, and missed the playoffs.

The 2010 Colts went 10-6 and lost in the wildcard round of the playoffs. I have no doubt in my mind 2008 Matt Cassel could guide the 2011 Colts w/o Manning to a 5-11 record, while missing the playoffs just like he did with the 2008 Patriots and winning 5 less games.

DUNCANownsKOBE

10-11-2011, 06:17 AM

Sidenote, regardless of Manning vs. Brady, the uncle tom Bulls fan in this thread has by far the dumbest takes out of anyone. I've never seen someone try to argue that being the Steelers' QB is an extremely hard job, most QBs would love to be able to score 21 points and know it means a win 90% of the time.

badfish22

10-11-2011, 12:09 PM

HomerFan092120

10-11-2011, 12:14 PM

Just ignore him

Fuck that!

Nobody comes into our house! OUR FORUM! and disrespects the foundation that our great country was built on with these outlandish statements! It is my God-given right to argue this troll to the death and to protect these Spurfans from even more ridicule. And last but not least, the great Toby Keith! Can't wait for America to have another tragedy so he can whore it to make another popular single for brainwashed minions like me!

Drive for Five

JoeTait75

10-11-2011, 12:14 PM

stretch

10-11-2011, 12:21 PM

Roethlisberger makes that line look worse than it is because he holds the ball and extends plays, IMO. A lot of those sacks are on him.

exactly :toast

pawe

10-11-2011, 12:38 PM

Roethlisberger makes that line look worse than it is because he holds the ball and extends plays, IMO. A lot of those sacks are on him.

He also sometimes make them look good since there are plenty of almost sacks that he avoided because he cant be brought down because of his power and size.

stretch

10-11-2011, 01:03 PM

He also sometimes make them look good since there are plenty of almost sacks that he avoided because he cant be brought down because of his power and size.

i dont think anyone EVER has said the steelers o-line is good.

they aren't amazing, but they are not nearly as bad as people say. all people have said ever since he took over as QB is how bad the line is, yet somehow they made it to 3 superbowls, winning 2. considering the o-line is arguably the most important unit in football, i have a hard time believing its nearly as bad as people continue to suggest.

ben gets time in the pocket consistently, he just doesnt know how to use the pocket. granted, from time to time, pocket protection breaks down quickly, and he is VERY good at getting out of it. but so many times he has a nice pocket, but decides to roll out instead of step up, and then he has to run for his life, due to his own mistake.

Monostradamus

10-11-2011, 01:16 PM

well according to pats fans, since the Pats were 16-0 the year before, only dropping 5 more games the next year is worse than dropping 9-10 more like the Colts are this year.

the other argument is "matt cassell is good!!!!!!!!!!!!! :madrun"

bull. he blows and having him as opposed to Kerry Collins is not a 4-5 game difference. I'm pretty sure Collins could have found a way to go at least 8-8 with that Pats team, which speaks more as to how shitty the Colts are without Peyton, as he was bound for a 1-15 year in Indy.

Manning would never have survived playing under Belichick. His ego and need to be in control are the reason Indy sucks so bad without him. In New England everybody is equal, everybody is held accountable, and everybody has to stay within their role, or they're out. Nobody is bigger than the team. In Indy, Manning made himself bigger than the team. It's all Manning all the time, so obviously when Manning goes down, the entire franchise has no clue what the hell they're doing. MANNING BROUGHT THAT UPON THE FRANCHISE.

Manning never would have stayed in his role the way Brady has. The reason the Patriots could win 11 games without Brady is because of the fact that Brady never felt compelled to dominate the entire franchise the way Manning has. He didn't feel the need to rewrite the entire playbook to fit his exact wants as a player. He accepted the system and plays within it, so that a QB like Matt Cassel or Brian Hoyer or Ryan Mallett can come in and run the exact same thing.

Monostradamus

10-11-2011, 01:18 PM

As a passer Manning is right there with Marino as probably the greatest of all time.

As a quarterback, I'll take Brady any day over Manning, and it's not even close.

stretch

10-11-2011, 01:48 PM

Manning would never have survived playing under Belichick. His ego and need to be in control are the reason Indy sucks so bad without him. In New England everybody is equal, everybody is held accountable, and everybody has to stay within their role, or they're out. Nobody is bigger than the team. In Indy, Manning made himself bigger than the team. It's all Manning all the time, so obviously when Manning goes down, the entire franchise has no clue what the hell they're doing. MANNING BROUGHT THAT UPON THE FRANCHISE.

Manning never would have stayed in his role the way Brady has. The reason the Patriots could win 11 games without Brady is because of the fact that Brady never felt compelled to dominate the entire franchise the way Manning has. He didn't feel the need to rewrite the entire playbook to fit his exact wants as a player. He accepted the system and plays within it, so that a QB like Matt Cassel or Brian Hoyer or Ryan Mallett can come in and run the exact same thing.

:sleep

brady got his 3 rings piggybacking a dominant defense

peyton took a team that is complete shit without him and won a ring

this is just like Dirk > Davey, in that in order to ring, robinson had to piggyback a more dominant force on the team, much like brady had to piggyback a more dominant force on his team. but when forced to be the flat out #1 guy, they both have failed and failed massively. but Dirk and Peyton both stuck it out, got called a choker and all that garbage, but ultimately led a very VERY average team to a championship.

go ahead and bring up the whole "rex grossman giftwrapped a ring to Peyton!" it sounds just like the spurfans who say "refs, jason terry, and being fortunate to not play the spurs giftwrapped Dirk a ring!!!!!!!!"

Peyton > Brady

Kirk Nowitzki

10-11-2011, 02:02 PM

You know it's funny how Manning gets labeled a whiner for blaming everything on his teammates for his early career playoff losses yet now he's not there and the team unequivocally sucks dick without him. Maybe he was right this whole time. Like Manning once said, the NFL isn't like basketball. He can't go out there and play defense. So however much of a control freak Manning must be with the Colts offense, that has no bearing on the fact that this wholesale commitment to Tony Dungy's Tampa-2 defense (which in 13 years as a head coach got him one pink slip and one Super Bowl ring) has shot the Colts in the fucking foot year after year.

Even the Colts defense is made to look better than it is by Manning because he puts points up so fast teams have to pass and that plays right into Freeney and Mathis's strengths. The #1 strategy to beat the Colts has always been to run the ball on their weak ass front seven and keep Manning on the bench. The only defenses I've seen truly figure out Manning were Romeo Crennel's Pats defenses and for whatever fucking reason those powder blue wearing faggots in San Diego.

So I guess I can totally see how Manning being a control freak caused him to brainwash Bill Polian into basically drafting defensive players because they fit the Al Davis model of athletic and fast rather than good football players. The Colts front office isn't held accountable for shit, so maybe that's one thing the Pats have them on. If anyone at West 56th Street keeps they're job on the pretense of asterisking this season because Peyton didn't play, it is the highest order of bullshit and he should opt out of his contract and go play for a team that will give him some real support.

Isitjustme?

10-11-2011, 03:56 PM

Monostradamus

10-11-2011, 05:50 PM

:sleep

brady got his 3 rings piggybacking a dominant defense

peyton took a team that is complete shit without him and won a ring

this is just like Dirk > Davey, in that in order to ring, robinson had to piggyback a more dominant force on the team, much like brady had to piggyback a more dominant force on his team. but when forced to be the flat out #1 guy, they both have failed and failed massively. but Dirk and Peyton both stuck it out, got called a choker and all that garbage, but ultimately led a very VERY average team to a championship.

go ahead and bring up the whole "rex grossman giftwrapped a ring to Peyton!" it sounds just like the spurfans who say "refs, jason terry, and being fortunate to not play the spurs giftwrapped Dirk a ring!!!!!!!!"

Peyton > Brady

:lmao a guy you yourself have called the 2nd greatest QB of all time, and now you're saying he was just piggybacking a defense to 3 titles :lmao if you're gonna talk out of your ass, at least be consistent. You can't be a massive failure that piggybacked his way to 3 rings, and also be the 2nd best QB ever.

DUNCANownsKOBE

10-11-2011, 06:52 PM

stretch, with the, "I'm gonna call Brady the 2nd best QB of all time to cover up all of my retarded opinions about him!" goods

DUNCANownsKOBE

10-11-2011, 06:53 PM

The System :worthy:
Is that why Matt Cassel was a pro bowler in KC?

Monostradamus

10-11-2011, 06:58 PM

Is that why Matt Cassel was a pro bowler in KC?

shitty QB's go to the pro bowl all the time, Vince Young made two of them!

IronMexican

10-11-2011, 07:04 PM

Cassel has sucked balls in KC. Using the Pro Bowl thing is retarded.

But Brady definitely didn't piggyack his way to three rings tbh. Super Bowl vs Carolina was probably the most exciting Super Bowl of my lifetime(taking bias out of it).

DUNCANownsKOBE

10-11-2011, 07:13 PM

The mere fact Brady's 2008 backup has made a pro bowl demonstrates how much better he is than Curtis Painter.

dirk4mvp

10-11-2011, 07:40 PM

How can you take Brady over Manning when Brady isn't even elite anymore iyo.

Monostradamus

10-11-2011, 07:47 PM

How can you take Brady over Manning when Brady isn't even elite anymore iyo.

how can you take Manning over Brady when Manning can't even jog without fucking up his neck

Monostradamus

10-11-2011, 07:49 PM

The mere fact Brady's 2008 backup has made a pro bowl demonstrates how much better he is than Curtis Painter.

:tu

It's also clear that the entire organization had given Cassel the confidence to step into the job. When Brady went down, the organization rallied around Cassel and put him in a position to succeed. When Manning was declared out, the organization threw up their hands and said "fuck it". Which again to me speaks volumes of Brady's team first approach. If Brady was a demanding control freak who made sure every facet of the organization was focused on him, there's no way Cassel would have been successful under those circumstances.

Pelicans78

10-12-2011, 07:40 AM

Cassell had a great season last year. Really good numbers, team won 11 games and the division. I would take Brady over Manning simply because he has way more poise.

Also, Manning's earlier playoff losses were not high scoring games, especially the home games. Those losses were on him since he runs the offense by himself. His ego does get in the way since he abandons the running game and tries to win every game on his own. It even cost him in the Super Bowl since the Saints dared the Colts to run the ball and Addai got like 13 carries even though he was running the ball well. Saints had only 3 down lineman most of the game and put 8 guys in coverage. Yet Manning took the bait and choked in the end. The Super Bowl which Manning did win, the Colts ran for a ton of yards.

stretch

10-12-2011, 10:02 AM

:lmao a guy you yourself have called the 2nd greatest QB of all time, and now you're saying he was just piggybacking a defense to 3 titles :lmao if you're gonna talk out of your ass, at least be consistent. You can't be a massive failure that piggybacked his way to 3 rings, and also be the 2nd best QB ever.

:lmao a guy you yourself have said is nothing but a choker while in his prime, you say you would take him as a QB before a guy who has almost singlehandedly kept his team in contention on a yearly basis including winning a championship, despite being surrounded by loads of shit on a yearly basis.

Piggybacking might have been a strong word for me to use, but lets not kid ourselves... the strongest part of those Patriots team were the incredibly smart and cohesive defensive unit, not Tom Brady. He did a great job, and stepped up when they needed him most (especially in the SB against the Panthers as IM said), but he was not a guy that could consistently put the team on his back, as he has become more of in the past 4-5 years. And now that he is the clear star and leader of the team, what have they done? Nothing but the biggest chokejob of all time (lol eli), and some wildcard/divisional round flameouts.

If he was so much better than Peyton, you would think he would have found a way to haul in a ring by now as the leader, or at the very least, be a strong point of the team in some of their losses, as opposed to being one of the weak ones.

Yes, I say they are the two greatest QBs ever, but there is FAR less argument to unquestionably put Brady ahead of Peyton, as opposed to Peyton ahead of Brady.

stretch

10-12-2011, 10:03 AM

Yet Manning took the bait and choked in the end.

Yes, it's Peyton's fault that Reggie Wayne suddenly forgot how to run a simple curl route, much less shield off the defender from being able to make an interception. :rolleyes

LnGrrrR

10-12-2011, 10:27 AM

Yes, it's Peyton's fault that Reggie Wayne suddenly forgot how to run a simple curl route, much less shield off the defender from being able to make an interception. :rolleyes

And it Brady's fault that the D let Eli march up the field in a minute to win the SB.

stretch

10-12-2011, 11:12 AM

And it Brady's fault that the D let Eli march up the field in a minute to win the SB.

Never said it was Brady's fault, although one would think after this nonsense:

5lk-wWUQKBg

that he would have backed up his shit talk and scored a few more points.

Especially when having arguably the best passing offense in NFL history.

Pelicans78

10-12-2011, 12:23 PM

Yes, it's Peyton's fault that Reggie Wayne suddenly forgot how to run a simple curl route, much less shield off the defender from being able to make an interception. :rolleyes

Porter knew that play was coming. He knew from the formation what the Colts were running. That's why he jumped on it and scored easily.

Pelicans78

10-12-2011, 12:26 PM

I agree with how going all pass happy hasn't worked with the Pats. Why? It's hard to say but I still believe that a team needs to run the ball effectively to complete offensively.

:lmao a guy you yourself have said is nothing but a choker while in his prime, you say you would take him as a QB before a guy who has almost singlehandedly kept his team in contention on a yearly basis including winning a championship, despite being surrounded by loads of shit on a yearly basis.

Piggybacking might have been a strong word for me to use, but lets not kid ourselves... the strongest part of those Patriots team were the incredibly smart and cohesive defensive unit, not Tom Brady. He did a great job, and stepped up when they needed him most (especially in the SB against the Panthers as IM said), but he was not a guy that could consistently put the team on his back, as he has become more of in the past 4-5 years. And now that he is the clear star and leader of the team, what have they done? Nothing but the biggest chokejob of all time (lol eli), and some wildcard/divisional round flameouts.

If he was so much better than Peyton, you would think he would have found a way to haul in a ring by now as the leader, or at the very least, be a strong point of the team in some of their losses, as opposed to being one of the weak ones.

Yes, I say they are the two greatest QBs ever, but there is FAR less argument to unquestionably put Brady ahead of Peyton, as opposed to Peyton ahead of Brady.

stretch

10-12-2011, 12:31 PM

Porter knew that play was coming. He knew from the formation what the Colts were running. That's why he jumped on it and scored easily.

He might have, but it doesnt change the fact that had Wayne correctly ran his route, he would have likely been able to still make the catch, or at the very least, prevent the interception. Wayne ran an incredibly poor and lazy route, which is unacceptable when running a timed route, which it clearly was as Peyton threw the ball well before Wayne turned around, and Wayne admitted he was at fault on that play.

LnGrrrR

10-12-2011, 12:55 PM

Never said it was Brady's fault, although one would think after this nonsense:

5lk-wWUQKBg

that he would have backed up his shit talk and scored a few more points.

Especially when having arguably the best passing offense in NFL history.

And if Peyton Manning was the best of all time, the Colts should've been scoring regularly in the 30's in the playoffs, per that logic.

stretch

10-12-2011, 01:21 PM

And if Peyton Manning was the best of all time, the Colts should've been scoring regularly in the 30's in the playoffs, per that logic.

a little tough when you have massively inconsistent receivers, a shit line, and no run game.

in the last 4 playoff runs for Peyton, the worst QB rating game of his was 87.9 against a dominant Baltimore defense. he's played pretty well overall.

Peyton just cant seem to win with the haters. You want to complain that he only wants to pass all the time and never run, but why the hell would you want to run if your team struggles to average more than 3 YPC? In his past 6 playoff games, only twice did the Colts average more than 3.5 YPC. One game was in a win against the Jets, the other was in the Superbowl, where Addai broke one 26 yard run, and was complete shit the rest of the game.

Then to add to it, he calls for more runs than pass attempts last year against the Jets, and they accomplished absolutely NOTHING. Then he consistently found open receivers that would drop passes, but somehow the game is Peyton's fault, and people like you say his selfishness is why they lost. What more can you ask of the guy? He consistently gives his team the very best he can, he simply does not have a good team.

LnGrrrR

10-12-2011, 02:33 PM

a little tough when you have massively inconsistent receivers, a shit line, and no run game.

How often was Manning sacked in the playoffs? What was the ypc average? And as far as inconsistent wide receivers, well, *shrug*.

in the last 4 playoff runs for Peyton, the worst QB rating game of his was 87.9 against a dominant Baltimore defense. he's played pretty well overall.

I think Manning has played MUCH better since they overcame their ghosts in the 2006 AFC win. Before that, I think he was a choker.

Peyton just cant seem to win with the haters. You want to complain that he only wants to pass all the time and never run, but why the hell would you want to run if your team struggles to average more than 3 YPC? In his past 6 playoff games, only twice did the Colts average more than 3.5 YPC.

Good fact here, and it works in your favor. Kudos.

Then to add to it, he calls for more runs than pass attempts last year against the Jets, and they accomplished absolutely NOTHING. Then he consistently found open receivers that would drop passes, but somehow the game is Peyton's fault, and people like you say his selfishness is why they lost. What more can you ask of the guy? He consistently gives his team the very best he can, he simply does not have a good team.

I think Peyton Manning is an awesome QB, definitely top 10, maybe even top 5. I just think the notion that because the Colts suck this year that he's obviously the best of all-time is asinine.

stretch

10-12-2011, 02:41 PM

I think Manning has played MUCH better since they overcame their ghosts in the 2006 AFC win. Before that, I think he was a choker.

I don't disagree with this.

I think Peyton Manning is an awesome QB, definitely top 10, maybe even top 5. I just think the notion that because the Colts suck this year that he's obviously the best of all-time is asinine.

I have said before this that I personally consider him the greatest QB of all time. If I was building a team and could pick any player in history, he would be my #1 pick almost certainly. The only other one that I would remotely consider otherwise is Randy Moss, because he brings a threat that no player ever has before. Although if Aaron Rodgers stays on the pace he is on, he could easily find himself in that spot by the end of his career.

But back to Peyton, I just can't see any QB that I would flat out take before him. I don't see any good reasoning why. I know everyone loves Montana, but what exactly does he do so much better than Peyton, or even Brady for that fact? Montana might be the most accomplished QB ever, but I don't see why he would neccesarily be the best. I have a hard time believing that Peyton or Brady in their primes would have been unable to win 3-4 championships with the teams that Montana was blessed with. I think Manning and Brady have less weaknesses than any QB I have ever seen, including Joe.

LnGrrrR

10-12-2011, 03:48 PM

But back to Peyton, I just can't see any QB that I would flat out take before him. I don't see any good reasoning why. I know everyone loves Montana, but what exactly does he do so much better than Peyton, or even Brady for that fact? Montana might be the most accomplished QB ever, but I don't see why he would neccesarily be the best. I have a hard time believing that Peyton or Brady in their primes would have been unable to win 3-4 championships with the teams that Montana was blessed with. I think Manning and Brady have less weaknesses than any QB I have ever seen, including Joe.

Hey, fair enough. If you ask me the honest truth, I might take Brady 2004 era over his current monstrous prime. Why? He just seemed luckier then. He pulled wins out of his ass that he had no right pulling out, and he just seemed to have more fire. I see that old Brady occasionally, but not on the consistent level of Brady's early years.

stretch

10-12-2011, 04:00 PM

Hey, fair enough. If you ask me the honest truth, I might take Brady 2004 era over his current monstrous prime. Why? He just seemed luckier then. He pulled wins out of his ass that he had no right pulling out, and he just seemed to have more fire. I see that old Brady occasionally, but not on the consistent level of Brady's early years.

Theres a reason for that. He had a better team in the title years. The defense took a lot of pressure off of him most of the time, and he wasn't relied upon as frequently to put the team on his back and win. Back then, he would just periodically be asked to lead a game winning drive, but these days he pretty much has to carry the whole team the entire game. That's a lot of added pressure, and it makes those late game drives quite a bit tougher to pull off. Why do you think Worthlessburger gets so many of them? He generally doesnt do crap all game long as the defense keeps them in the game, then finally when the end of the game rolls around, his team is down 4, the opposing defense beaten down, and hes only thrown the ball 15-20 times... he will have plenty more left in the tank to help his team march downfield.

LnGrrrR

10-12-2011, 04:25 PM

Theres a reason for that. He had a better team in the title years. The defense took a lot of pressure off of him most of the time, and he wasn't relied upon as frequently to put the team on his back and win. Back then, he would just periodically be asked to lead a game winning drive, but these days he pretty much has to carry the whole team the entire game. That's a lot of added pressure, and it makes those late game drives quite a bit tougher to pull off. Why do you think Worthlessburger gets so many of them? He generally doesnt do crap all game long as the defense keeps them in the game, then finally when the end of the game rolls around, his team is down 4, the opposing defense beaten down, and hes only thrown the ball 15-20 times... he will have plenty more left in the tank to help his team march downfield.

True that he had a better team, but he was also just luckier. One time we won a game against the Bills (I believe) when Patten got knocked silly and fumbled, but happened to touch the out-of-bounds line as he fell. Then you have the obvious tuck rule game. Plus there were just so many clutch plays that got made.

Also, I liked the playcalling a bit better back in the day. I miss the screen pases that went for a good 7 or 8 yards, the quick out-hitch, the spectacular play-action pass. The NE offense has become obsessed with the 10-15 short out with the occasional bomb. The only reason it remotely works is due to Brady being a great short-to-mid range passer, and Welker.

Plus, it's hard to separate emotion for me. That 2001 Super Bowl was awesome to me. I was out on my own in the military, 9/11 had us all weirded out, and I had deployment orders to visit GTMO, so it was a tumultuous time for me. The SB win was one of the few bright spots. (Of course, when I got to Cuba I had a great time [and no, I didn't deal with detainees before you ask], but I was nervous about it before I left.)