Stern cancels first 2 weeks of NBA season

[Juggity]

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/32653464


The National Basketball Association and the National Basketball Players Association concluded more than seven hours of meetings on Monday in New York City without reaching an agreement on the framework of a new collective bargaining agreement. As such, Ken Berger of CBSSports.com reports (http://scribe.twitter.com/#%21/KBergCBS/status/123575445957509120) that NBA commissioner David Stern canceled the first two weeks of the 2011-2012 regular season, spanning from Nov. 1 to Nov. 14.

Berger reports (http://scribe.twitter.com/#%21/KBergCBS/status/123576004609454080) that Stern said that a "gulf" still separates the owners and players in their negotiations and that the two sides are "very, very far apart on virtually all issues."

Stern also confirmed that the cancellation of the first two weeks will prevent an 82-game regular season. In other words, there isn't sufficient time available later in the calendar to make up the games.

There are currently no further talks scheduled, Stern said, according to Berger.

Stern was joined in the negotiations by NBA deputy commissioner Adam Silver. The NBPA was represented by president Derek Fisher (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/players/playerpage/6572) and executive director Billy Hunter, among others.

Earlier Monday, the NBPA launched a Twitter campaign (http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/32639704) called "Let us play," hoping to curry public favor and maintain solidarity amongst its ranks.

Monday's meeting was an extension of last-ditch talks that began Sunday afternoon. Stern set Monday as the deadline for cancelling the first two weeks of the season when talks broke down on Tuesday of last week.

This post will update with the latest on the NBA lockout.

[Pistons < Spurs]

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Stern suggests that owner's offers will get worse for players to account for NBA losses during missed games.

[baseline bum]

LOL, goodbye NBA season. Thankfully, it looks like a banner year for NCAA basketball.

[spurs1990]

two weeks is roughly 5 games. No big deal imo.

Stern needs to drop the hammer and cancel the entire season. Only way to send the players a message they won't soon forget.

[baseline bum]

two weeks is roughly 5 games. No big deal imo.

Stern needs to drop the hammer and cancel the entire season. Only way to send the players a message they won't soon forget.

If Stern is serious about penalizing the NBAPA for the missed games so far then he effectively has canceled the season.

[Pistons < Spurs]

LOL, goodbye NBA season. Thankfully, it looks like a banner year for NCAA basketball.

I basically wrote off the season months ago ... but recently started to believe clearer heads would prevail and they'd get it done at the last minute.

I'm dialed in to NCAA this year, whereas I'm typically just a casual observer. There should be a bunch of solid and competitive teams. I'm excited. Screw the NBA.

[baseline bum]

I basically wrote off the season months ago ... but recently started to believe clearer heads would prevail and they'd get it done at the last minute.

I'm dialed in to NCAA this year, whereas I'm typically just a casual observer. There should be a bunch of solid competitive and teams. I'm excited. Screw the NBA.

I'd still much rather watch the NBA, but when the owners are demanding the players take a 12% smaller piece of the pie and force what is in all but name only a hard cap, I'm not getting my hopes up.

[ajballer4]

What happens to draft order for 2012 if the whole season is cancelled?

[DPG21920]

If Stern is serious about penalizing the NBAPA for the missed games so far then he effectively has canceled the season.

Exactly. If they are saying the deal is going to get worse as this goes along, that doesn't bode well. Things have the potential to get very ugly.

[DPG21920]

What happens to draft order for 2012 if the whole season is cancelled?

Nobody knows that at the moment. They will have to decide on that.

[baseline bum]

What happens to draft order for 2012 if the whole season is cancelled?

I don't think there's a rule in the books for that. It's uncharted territory, and man, would that suck to get stuck drafting at 29 again because of that abortion of a season.

[spurs1990]

Don't you wish there was a clause allowing Irving and DWilliams to play NCAA ball if the NBA is cancelled. What were those guys thinking...everyone saw this coming.

[DPG21920]

Those dudes are fine. They are making money from endorsements and such still.

[ElNono]

Stern shouldn't be surprised. He basically started with an egregiously lopsided deal, then 'conceded' to a flagrant lopsided deal. I'm glad for the player's unity, and I hope they end up decertifying before they cave in.

[baseline bum]

Don't you wish there was a clause allowing Irving and DWilliams to play NCAA ball if the NBA is cancelled. What were those guys thinking...everyone saw this coming.

They were thinking they'd be top 2 picks and therefore get the top of the line rookie scale deals, when they'd potentially slip a few slots next draft. There is no way the owners will give up the rookie scale and the players won't fight to get rid of it. I can't blame either of them for leaving when their stock was at its peak, though I hope they're smart enough to not take out really big loans this year.

[Spursnlego]

Oh Well...
WE WILL RAMPAGE!!!

[greyforest]

I hope the NBA collapses. Tired of the rigged games.

I'd love to see all the NBA players play in an untampered league.

[Bruno]

Well, that's a huge fail for Stern.

As a commissioner he hasn't been been able to avoid 2 lockouts that cost games. You can take away all the good things he has done as a commish because these 2 lengthy lockouts negate everything. He has been exposed in these negotiations with his bully attitude.


I do hope the NRLB will come with a quick answer that will end the lockout.I don't see how desertification could help the players. Their best option is to try to create a new alternate league. If it's a serious threat, owners will come back crawling. Owners and the NBA is nothing without the star players.

[Dex]

NBA/NBPA negotiations:

http://4.asset.soup.io/asset/2435/9908_5aa0.gif

[DJ Mbenga]

looked like the owners werent going to really negotiate until November. except these player seem dug in. they've been preparing for years. kg who stands his last chance at a title and his last big contract was fighting for 53% BRI. ego, and principle are involved. i think for now the season is over with. the owners want the total destruction of the union and to implement the nhl owner amazing model, but at what cost? the nhl is barely starting to recover and will likely go back in the tank since their star cant recover from a concussion.

[ChuckD]

If Stern is serious about penalizing the NBAPA for the missed games so far then he effectively has canceled the season.

This. You never reach an agreement going backwards.

I can't believe the NBAPA isn't HAMMERING on the fact that the owners caused the work stoppage. This is NOT a strike, it's a lockout. The owners initiated the work stoppage.

Best bit I've read on this whole thing:


If you can’t manage a pro team at a modest profit in the United States of America in the early years of the 21st century, you shouldn’t be allowed to vote or operate a motor vehicle. You shouldn’t be allowed near the stove.

At a time when the production and consumption of distraction are the only healthy sectors of the American economy, and when city, county, state and federal tax dollars pay for the arenas and the stadiums, to lose money on the operation of a pro sports franchise has to be grounds for involuntary psychiatric commitment. Or prosecution.

[objective]

kg who stands his last chance at a title and his last big contract was fighting for 53% BRI. ego, and principle are involved. i think for now the season is over with. the owners want the total destruction of the union and to implement the nhl owner amazing model, but at what cost?

it's kind of unfortunate that guys like KG and Wade yelling have become the face of the issue (and they injected themselves into it).

It's real easy for the guys who already got theirs with rings AND have made over $100 million in salary and endorsements (over $200 million for KG) to puff their chests out and scream about holding the line at 53%. After all, they won't be hurting themselves doing it.

But they're the minority of players in the union.

I think the players could help their PR if instead of KG, Wade, and Lebron in media stories, the real bulk of the union were out there yelling for 53%. Let's see press conferences and hear negotiating room stories of guys like Chris Quinn, Hilton Armstrong, Brian Scalabrine, Stephen Graham and Keith Bogans declaring what's good for the union.

[ElNono]

^^^ star power rules though. The average fan has no clue what KG made. They just know he's KG and "everything is poooossssiiibbblllleeee"

[ElNono]

Highlights from this article: N.B.A. Cancels First 2 Weeks of Play (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/sports/basketball/nba-cancels-first-2-weeks-of-play.html?_r=1&hp)

Although the division of revenue had appeared to be the greatest obstacle to a deal, both sides admitted Monday that it was the structure of the economic system that proved to be the most thorny.

The owners, citing an increasing competitive gap between big-market and small-market franchises, want extensive new controls on team payrolls, including a punitive luxury-tax system that would impose as much as an 8-to-1 penalty for every dollar spent over a certain threshold, according to the union.

Union officials said that proposal would create a de facto hard salary cap, something they have opposed for decades.

“It’s just a hard cap in another name,” said Jeffrey Kessler, the union’s outside counsel. “And the players have made it clear that there’s going to be no hard-cap deal. And they knew that. So the only interpretation you can make out of this is this is a test to see if the players are going to hang together.”

According to the union, the N.B.A. also wants to reduce contract lengths to four years (for players with “Bird rights”) and three years (for non-Bird players), from the current six-year and five-year limits. Players signed using the midlevel exception, who had been eligible for five-year deals starting around $5.8 million, would be limited to two-year deals, starting at $3 million.

[timtonymanu]

Honestly, fuck all this.

Oh well at least I won't have to skip class to watch Spurs games.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol the scrubs in the nbdl...what will happen to them?

imo this shouldve been a seperate entity from the nba

[Dex]

lol the scrubs in the nbdl...what will happen to them?

imo this shouldve been a seperate entity from the nba

IIRC, lockout doesn't affect NBDL teams. Other than the fact that there won't be any NBA teams sending players down. They are a separate entity.

Guess I'll be following the Toros more this season.

[SpursPreacher]

I do have to ask a duh question dont know if it is or not.But who can realistically get rid or fire David Stern.Is it the board ? The other executives ? The government who ?

[Giuseppe]

Highlights from this article: N.B.A. Cancels First 2 Weeks of Play (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/sports/basketball/nba-cancels-first-2-weeks-of-play.html?_r=1&hp)

Although the division of revenue had appeared to be the greatest obstacle to a deal, both sides admitted Monday that it was the structure of the economic system that proved to be the most thorny.

The owners, citing an increasing competitive gap between big-market and small-market franchises, want extensive new controls on team payrolls, including a punitive luxury-tax system that would impose as much as an 8-to-1 penalty for every dollar spent over a certain threshold, according to the union.

Union officials said that proposal would create a de facto hard salary cap, something they have opposed for decades.

“It’s just a hard cap in another name,” said Jeffrey Kessler, the union’s outside counsel. “And the players have made it clear that there’s going to be no hard-cap deal. And they knew that. So the only interpretation you can make out of this is this is a test to see if the players are going to hang together.”

According to the union, the N.B.A. also wants to reduce contract lengths to four years (for players with “Bird rights”) and three years (for non-Bird players), from the current six-year and five-year limits. Players signed using the midlevel exception, who had been eligible for five-year deals starting around $5.8 million, would be limited to two-year deals, starting at $3 million.

I don't like any of that shit.:(

[Giuseppe]

I hope the NBA collapses. Tired of the rigged games.

I'd love to see all the NBA players play in an untampered league.

You benefited from the rigged machinations just like we did.

Now. Now you want to get straightened out.

:nope

[benefactor]

Highlights from this article: N.B.A. Cancels First 2 Weeks of Play (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/sports/basketball/nba-cancels-first-2-weeks-of-play.html?_r=1&hp)

Although the division of revenue had appeared to be the greatest obstacle to a deal, both sides admitted Monday that it was the structure of the economic system that proved to be the most thorny.

The owners, citing an increasing competitive gap between big-market and small-market franchises, want extensive new controls on team payrolls, including a punitive luxury-tax system that would impose as much as an 8-to-1 penalty for every dollar spent over a certain threshold, according to the union.

Union officials said that proposal would create a de facto hard salary cap, something they have opposed for decades.

“It’s just a hard cap in another name,” said Jeffrey Kessler, the union’s outside counsel. “And the players have made it clear that there’s going to be no hard-cap deal. And they knew that. So the only interpretation you can make out of this is this is a test to see if the players are going to hang together.”

According to the union, the N.B.A. also wants to reduce contract lengths to four years (for players with “Bird rights”) and three years (for non-Bird players), from the current six-year and five-year limits. Players signed using the midlevel exception, who had been eligible for five-year deals starting around $5.8 million, would be limited to two-year deals, starting at $3 million.
Wow...what a load of horseshit. So not only do they want 50/50 BRI, but a soft cap that basically = hard cap(lol 8-1), two years off contract lengths and three years and almost 3 million less of a starting salary off of the MLE...plus Stern is threatening that the deals will get worse as the season loses more games. L M A O.

These aren't negotiations. It Stern and the owners ramming a spoonful of shit down the players throat when THEY WERE THE PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH.

Say what you want about them still getting millions to play basketball...at some point principle has to get involved. If someone that you worked for pissed away a bunch of cash because they were too stupid to manage it correctly then turned around and tried to take your money away to right things you'd probably go look for another job.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Say what you want about them still getting millions to play basketball...at some point principle has to get involved. If someone that you worked for pissed away a bunch of cash because they were too stupid to manage it correctly then turned around and tried to take your money away to right things you'd probably go look for another job.

I'm sure they'll all be welcomed to work in McDonald's or something for the minimum wage as an alternative.

If the lockout persists, no more than 5% of the players will get equal money playing elsewhere. They have no leverage, even at 50-50 split, reduced years and less MLE.

[TDMVPDPOY]

nbdl :D send kawhi down

as for stern, its the owners that selected him...


imo fck the nba players...stern and the owners could just camp it out, and refill the league with more young rookies and fill the team rosters up with them with low paid players, just like how the nba started back in the day...

quality might be shit, but these are some of the same players from the ncaa final 4 tournies, but this time we get to see them in a 82 game season

[benefactor]

I'm sure they'll all be welcomed to work in McDonald's or something for the minimum wage as an alternative.

If the lockout persists, no more than 5% of the players will get equal money playing elsewhere. They have no leverage, even at 50-50 split, reduced years and less MLE.
I think you missed the point of the analogy. Just because they have no leverage doesn't make the deal fair...especially when the owners are expecting the players to give back shitloads of cash because they have no idea how to run a franchise.

[benefactor]

nbdl :D send kawhi down

as for stern, its the owners that selected him...


imo fck the nba players...stern and the owners could just camp it out, and refill the league with more young rookies and fill the team rosters up with them with low paid players, just like how the nba started back in the day...

quality might be shit, but these are some of the same players from the ncaa final 4 tournies, but this time we get to see them in a 82 game season
That would never work. The NBA is a star driven league. Household names make the money...not a bunch of scrubs. They would turn to contraction before they did this.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I think you missed the point of the analogy. Just because they have no leverage doesn't make the deal fair...especially when the owners are expecting the players to give back shitloads of cash because they have no idea how to run a franchise.

I'm not saying whether it's fair or not, I don't know, I think it's difficult to define what 'fair' is in this case. Reality is, players have nowhere else to earn the money they get in the NBA ( most of them anyway ), thus one could easily determine that it'd be fair if they earned twice less than they have been until this point. Others would argue they used to get way too much until now, which had been unfair for the owners.

Bottomlines is, who cares what's fair, it doesn't come into play in business negotiations. Problem is, both sides seem too greedy and stubborn to make a business decision and that's very unprofessional as they'll lose more money in the process than they'd fight for in a lengthly negotiating process.

[benefactor]

So you don't really have a position at all. Thanks for clearing that up.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

If by position you mean I should either be on the side of the owners or the players, then no, I can't sympathise with either.

[velik_m]

Oh, well more time for NHL i suppose...

[acoelho1]

The players should have decertified from the start. The owners had no intention to negotiate in good faith by their rediculous initial offer. It's a player's league and they deserve the majority of the revenue in my opinion. If the NBA is so concern about competitiveness, why don't they split the revenue from the local TV contracts like they do in the NFL.

[MannyIsGod]

Wow...what a load of horseshit. So not only do they want 50/50 BRI, but a soft cap that basically = hard cap(lol 8-1), two years off contract lengths and three years and almost 3 million less of a starting salary off of the MLE...plus Stern is threatening that the deals will get worse as the season loses more games. L M A O.

These aren't negotiations. It Stern and the owners ramming a spoonful of shit down the players throat when THEY WERE THE PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH.

Say what you want about them still getting millions to play basketball...at some point principle has to get involved. If someone that you worked for pissed away a bunch of cash because they were too stupid to manage it correctly then turned around and tried to take your money away to right things you'd probably go look for another job.

Fucking exactly. Thats why I was shocked when I visited the other thread and people were actually talking shit about the players union. They've already conceded a shit load and quite frankly if some of those small market teams can't make it in this environment SHUT THEM DOWN! The leauge is too god damn big anyway.

[MannyIsGod]

TBH I don't even really care that part of the season is gone. Maybe I'll regret it more come November but as Baseline Bum said NCAA is going to be good this year. My Lobos are staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacked.

The best part is I get to save money on League Pass!

[boutons_deux]

Just another example among 1000s of the employers' War on Employees that was initiated by St Ronnie firing the 11K+ air traffic controllers after 2 days of strike. Executive salaries have exploded since 1980, while household real income has stagnated.

The Big Picture always help understand what the tiny NBA thing is really about.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Just another example among 1000s of the employers' War on Employees that was initiated by St Ronnie firing the 11K+ air traffic controllers after 2 days of strike. Executive salaries have exploded since 1980, while household real income has stagnated.

The Big Picture always help understand what the tiny NBA thing is really about.

Ronald Reagan didn't start shit. Look up history of the industrial revolution.

This actually has nothing to do with that whatsoever. There is no NLRB and if there will be any government involvement it will be from the players suing antitrust. What do lockout mean?

I understand that what you are saying is a democratic talking point and that it includes the word union but try harder.

[baseline bum]

Fucking exactly. Thats why I was shocked when I visited the other thread and people were actually talking shit about the players union. They've already conceded a shit load and quite frankly if some of those small market teams can't make it in this environment SHUT THEM DOWN! The leauge is too god damn big anyway.

I don't think you can treat a sports league as a free market. If you did, there would be 10 teams in the league: the LA Lakers, Golden State Warriors, Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets, Chicago Bulls, Miami Heat, Washington Wizards, Philadelphia 76ers, New York Knicks, and the Boston Celtics. I don't think any other market could compete. Having only those 10 teams would be pretty bad for the league and their overall revenues, as it would kill national viewership, merchandise sale, and of course the gate receipts from 20 teams. It's funny how the players are basically expected to do all the subsidization of the smaller markets in the NBA's proposal.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't think you can treat a sports league as a free market. If you did, there would be 10 teams in the league: the LA Lakers, Golden State Warriors, Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets, Chicago Bulls, Miami Heat, Washington Wizards, Philadelphia 76ers, New York Knicks, and the Boston Celtics. I don't think any other market could compete. Having only those 10 teams would be pretty bad for the league and their overall revenues, as it would kill national viewership, merchandise sale, and of course the gate receipts from 20 teams. It's funny how the players are basically expected to do all the subsidization of the smaller markets in the NBA's proposal.

That and the scarcity of the labor pool is going to drive prices sky high similar to what you see in the health care market. I can understand that the owners would want the market fixed but this notion that it is an inherent right to do so is plain wrong.

[Cane]

The owners are going to "win", the only questions are by how much and when. I don't like seeing weeks getting cancelled but the real season is the playoffs anyway right? :downspin:

[Juggity]

Ronald Reagan didn't start shit. Look up history of the industrial revolution.

He does have a point, though, in that Ronald Reagan was a disgusting anti-intellectual subhuman piece of shit.

[dbreiden83080]

Exactly. If they are saying the deal is going to get worse as this goes along, that doesn't bode well. Things have the potential to get very ugly.

That's just negotiating horse-shit and the players won't buy a word of it.. How will those losses look to the owners if they miss all 82 games? A deal will get done at some point, i would not expect them to miss more games than they did in 99..

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He does have a point, though, in that Ronald Reagan was a disgusting anti-intellectual subhuman piece of shit.

One thing those Republicans did along with the mindless defense spending was put money into the NSF and big science in general. Reagan was the one that approved the particle collider that was supposed to be outside of Dallas. It would have come on line about 6 or 7 years ago and been able to do much, much higher energy experiments than what they are doing at CERN today. Clinton was the one that scuttled that and scaled back NSF funding in the 90s which established the trend since.

The GOP in those days embraced academia and research to a much greater degree than the status quo of Bible thumper goes disestablishmentarian politics.

He was hardly the first president that was also a corporate stooge. Grover Cleveland and William McKinley were both predated by Alexander Hamilton who was there from the get go. We still have two parties and the same phenomenon.

[DMC]

The * means nothing to owners and players who are getting $$$$$$. It's actually funny to see it used as if it really means something.

[ALVAREZ6]

Stern is such a scumbag...how the fuck does he expect to actually get anywhere by gradually making the offers shittier? I hope he runs the entire season into the ground, it would be great to see that faggot ass piece of shit have an entire season lost on his resume. It's not like he needs the money, clearly he's been commissioner for so long because he's a control freak.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Stern is such a scumbag...how the fuck does he expect to actually get anywhere by gradually making the offers shittier? I hope he runs the entire season into the ground, it would be great to see that faggot ass piece of shit have an entire season lost on his resume. It's not like he needs the money, clearly he's been commissioner for so long because he's a control freak.

Stern is just a mouthpiece. The problem is the income disparity and influence of firms such as the Lakers and Bulls who dominate the decisionmaking process.

They want to maximize profits in their large markets and at the same time try to keep the same costs as smaller market teams. They want their cake and to eat it too.