Let's Take A Closer Look At MJ Titles

[Koolaid_Man]

I think if nothing else MJ and Kobe are equals. You can buy into all the Gatorade and Nike hype if you want. I don't... I’m a pure evaluator of talent and I can back what I say up. Some things MJ did better than Kobe and Some things Kobe does better than MJ.


MJ didn’t have to share the ball…his post game was slightly better, Kobe’s shooting was better and he had better range. MJ had a better Mid range. Kobe was a far superior defended than MJ in my opinion. MJ didn’t have to guard the likes of Lebron, Wade, Rose, Durant, AI, Marbury’s etc…He was dominating against old men, white guys, or scrubs in his prime.



Here's look back and quick comparison with what Kobe faced in the finals...



1991 - First title MJ won against LA he didn’t have to play defense. He played against an old Magic who actually had HIV even then… and he didn’t even have to do that because they put Pippen on Magic. Again this is an example of MJ having it easy.

1992 was his 1st legit title..even though they again put Pippen on Drexler..all MJ had to do was play offense…he didn’t play defense until he was guarding the white players…that’s when he got all aggressive…but this is his first legit title since he wasn’t facing an old player with HIV.

1993 – MJ was being guarded by Dan Marjle not a Ray Allen, Paul Pierece…they didn’t put a defensive specialist on him like a Tony Allen or James Posey because they had none…and face it who couldn’t beat Charles Barkley…everyone beat his ass…

1996 was his 2nd legit title in my opinion. He once again faced some real niggas and he beat them…However keep in mind this time he had to play the Glove and ironically it was his worst finals experience , especially in the deciding game..Payton made him shoot 25% on 5-19…if MJ had to face athletic players like this all the time the true MJ would have shown more often. He was protected by Pippen’s suburb defense and then given credit for it as if it were is own.

1997 – 1998. I will mark these as legit too but not without my color commentary. Listen MJ was looking all world again because he was facing John Stockon, Jeff Hornacek, Shandon Anderson, and Byron Russell…these guys couldn’t defend to save their lives…it was pathetic…Karl Malone pulled a semi-choke job as well….but MJ feasted on that white back-court…pathetic…

Now let’s look at Kobe’s direct back court opponents and players assigned to defend him for his titles

2000 - Kobe’s first title he faced Reggie Miller, Jalen Rose, Mark Jackson…Offense and Defense he had to work…


2001 – Kobe’s 2nd title he faced – Allen Iverson, Raja Bell, Aaron Mckie, Eric Snow and George Lynch. A.I put up numbers on Kobe and the Sixer defense lead by Raja and Mckie was a hardnosed as they came…Way more than what MJ ever faced in a finals…

2002 – Kobe’s 3rd title was more defense he had to face starting with a prime Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, Kerry Kittles, Kenyon Martin guarded Kobe, and Chris Childs… again MJ never had to face this kind of defense. And when he did against the Pistons and a Prime Magic and Bird…MJ lost everytime…He beat those teams as their stars got old…He had it easy..

2009 – 4th title By far Kobe’s easiest title. He faced Vince Carter, Matt Barnes, and Mickel Pietrus and even they made him work.
2010 – 5th title – Kobe’s hardest. The Celtic HOF trio on both sides of the ball and the pesky Rondo..Need I say more…MJ never faced this in a finals not this package of prime offensive and defensive players. Kobe’s 5th was more earned than any title MJ won.





Lastly the two titles Kobe lost to the Pistons and the Celtics…keep in mind those were also great great defensive teams again something MJ faced only once which was in 96 against a Gary Payton led Sonics and MJ wasn’t as dominant as he’d been previously…struggled mightily..


Long live Koolaid...the truth teller even though it goes against the grain. :toast

[Black&Silver]

lol no where in your post do you mention shaq or the significant impact he made in 2000-2002.




2009 – 4th title By far Kobe’s easiest title. He faced Vince Carter, Matt Barnes, and Mickel Pietrus and even they made him work.


Kobe didn't face vince carter in 2009 it was courtney lee.

[Nathan89]

Lets take a close look a Kobe's titles

shaq
shaq
shaq
pau
pau

[DMC]

Most of what Kool says is why Pippen despises MJ to this day..

Pippen never heard of Koon Maid.

[Koolaid_Man]

Most of what Kool says is why Pippen despises MJ to this day. Pippen did all the dirty work and MJ got all the glory. This has frustrated Pippen to no end, which is why he said he did not believe MJ was the greatest. He was his way of brining MJ down to reality. Robinson felt the same way about Jim, which is why he was quoted as saying, " if Jim is so good then let him guard Shaq and other good big men." Most nerds dont understand the frustration those two men went through having to do all the hard work and yet not getting the glory. Kobe did it on both ends.

MJ absolved many prejudiced people of their sins...and that's why they rode for him they way did...they found one black guy that could make it all right and they rode that...even going against the grain of their "moral" beliefs...they knew he was fucking around on his wife, they knew he was gambling like he was and was inherently selfish but they turned a blind eye...stole Pippen's hard work and just summarily assigned it to MJ...MJ has Zero titles without that guy...whereas Kobe has 2 without Shaq...those are the key ingredients to my arguement...MJ / Pippen and Kobe Shaq...Pippen has none without MJ and vice versa...Kobe 2 Shaq 1...in this great debate...

Pip is within his right to feel the way he does...they did him wrong man...:lol

[DMC]

Steve Kerr has titles without either Jordan or Pippen. Kerr is the real GOAT.

[Baron Davιs]

Just when I thought you've reached the apex of unintelligence.


6>5
6 FINAL MVPS > 2
6>0 5>2

DEAL WITH IT.

[Koolaid_Man]

Just when I thought you've reached the apex of unintelligence.


6>5
6 FINAL MVPS > 2
6>0 5>2

DEAL WITH IT.


you wanna know the difference in 5>4 and 6>5...it's simple..

Both Duncan and MJ are done....Kobe's still competing for titles...:lol

[DMC]

you wanna know the difference in 5>4 and 6>5...it's simple..

Both Duncan and MJ are done....Kobe's still competing for titles...:lol

Where, Italy? Last time I saw that rat faced rapist he was being ushered out of the playoffs by the pie eyed piper Dirk.

[Giuseppe]

Most of what Kool says is why Pippen despises MJ to this day. Pippen did all the dirty work and MJ got all the glory. This has frustrated Pippen to no end, which is why he said he did not believe MJ was the greatest. He was his way of brining MJ down to reality. Robinson felt the same way about Jim, which is why he was quoted as saying, " if Jim is so good then let him guard Shaq and other good big men." Most nerds dont understand the frustration those two men went through having to do all the hard work and yet not getting the glory. Kobe did it on both ends.

"Every chamber filled!!!"

[lefty]

.



1991 -. He played against an old Magic


Here is an old MJ against a young Kobe :lmao


he didn’t have to play defense

And Kobe played defense :lmao :lmao :lmao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLVfougACiQ

[Dunc n Dave]

http://chzupnextinsports.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/kb-vs-mj.jpg?w=500&h=568

/thread

[baseline bum]

Plus there was the time MJ got taken to the woodshed by JJ Barea.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I just had to post this

http://anomalouspropagation.com/files/page0_blog_entry34-mj-laughing.gif

[ElNono]

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2011/02/jordan-pippen-laugh.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0216/pg2_g_pippen_sy_576.jpg

[Sean Cagney]

LOL keep sipping that koolaid you fucking hater! THE GOD MJ RULES KOBE.

[ezau]

you wanna know the difference in 5>4 and 6>5...it's simple..

Both Duncan and MJ are done....Kobe's still competing for titles...:lol

and getting swept on his way to the finals:lol:lol

[LkrFan]

5 Star Thread Kool. Good job son. These haters can try to :downspin: this shit all they want but truth be told you are on point 110%.

2004 Pistons and 2008 Celtics would have made MJ's life a living hell as well. Especially with strong side zones, players that are at least comparible athletically guarding him, along with agile swatters like Sheed, Big Ben, and KG waiting to clean up any mistakes. MJ never faced anything like that in the Finals.

I'll go a step further. What WC team played lights out lockdown defense?

1991 Lakers - good "team defense" but no notable lock down defenders. Their anchor? Vlade Divac. 57 year old Magic past his prime was running the show

1992 Blazers - didn't play a lick of defense. They tried outscoring their opponents. 1st one to 150 wins! :lol

1993 Suns - the first time they play defense will be the first. KJ, Chuck, Marjerle - case closed

1996 Sonics - Glove made him shoot like crap all series. Like you said Legit title

1997 or 1998 Jazz - I put an asterisk on that 1998 title. MJ was guarded by Hornacek and 6'0" Stockton. Then that fucker pushed off on Russell when clearly it was an offensive foul. Who knows what would have happened in game 7

Even at gunpoint, I'll say with a straight face that there is NOTHING that MJ could do that Kobe couldn't. The only edge I give MJ on over Kobe is shot selection. And not really because MJ never played with Kwame, Smush, Brian Cook, or inconsistent ass Odom.

I'll go even further to the Shaq/Kobe days. In the fourth quarter you knew that Shaq wasn't getting the ball because he is a liability on the FT line. That means that Kobe would get double and triple teamed - even with Shaq on the court. Of course your shooting %s will take a dive if you are repeatedly being asked to bail your team out with < 5 seconds on the clock - no matter if you are 25 feet from the basket. You take away those types of possessions and I guarantee you Kobe shoots over 50%.

Put Kobe on MJ's Bulls and he might actually have more than 6 rings. He'll still get it though. And when he has 7 rings, and have more career points, I don't want to hear shit about MJ ever again. Matter of fact, MJ is probably behind this lockout. He trying to make sure Kobe don't ring again. Hey MJ, Kobe is coming for that azz!! :lol

[ezau]

5 Star Thread Kool. Good job son. These haters can try to :downspin: this shit all they want but truth be told you are on point 110%.

2004 Pistons and 2008 Celtics would have made MJ's life a living hell as well. Especially with strong side zones, players that are at least comparible athletically guarding him, along with agile swatters like Sheed, Big Ben, and KG waiting to clean up any mistakes. MJ never faced anything like that in the Finals.

I'll go a step further. What WC team played lights out lockdown defense?

1991 Lakers - good "team defense" but no notable lock down defenders. Their anchor? Vlade Divac. 57 year old Magic past his prime was running the show

1992 Blazers - didn't play a lick of defense. They tried outscoring their opponents. 1st one to 150 wins! :lol

1993 Suns - the first time they play defense will be the first. KJ, Chuck, Marjerle - case closed

1996 Sonics - Glove made him shoot like crap all series. Like you said Legit title

1997 or 1998 Jazz - I put an asterisk on that 1998 title. MJ was guarded by Hornacek and 6'0" Stockton. Then that fucker pushed off on Russell when clearly it was an offensive foul. Who knows what would have happened in game 7

Even at gunpoint, I'll say with a straight face that there is NOTHING that MJ could do that Kobe couldn't. The only edge I give MJ on over Kobe is shot selection. And not really because MJ never played with Kwame, Smush, Brian Cook, or inconsistent ass Odom.

I'll go even further to the Shaq/Kobe days. In the fourth quarter you knew that Shaq wasn't getting the ball because he is a liability on the FT line. That means that Kobe would get double and triple teamed - even with Shaq on the court. Of course your shooting %s will take a dive if you are repeatedly being asked to bail your team out with < 5 seconds on the clock - no matter if you are 25 feet from the basket. You take away those types of possessions and I guarantee you Kobe shoots over 50%.

Put Kobe on MJ's Bulls and he might actually have more than 6 rings. He'll still get it though. And when he has 7 rings, and have more career points, I don't want to hear shit about MJ ever again. Matter of fact, MJ is probably behind this lockout. He trying to make sure Kobe don't ring again. Hey MJ, Kobe is coming for that azz!! :lol

Swept by the Mavs

[Koolaid_Man]

Swept by the Mavs


what you guys don't realize is that getting swept..by the Mavs was it..ohh yeah by the Mavs...it doesn't bother us...let me tell you why...sure we would have liked to have 3 peated but our goal is Kobe 7 rings. 7 is all we need. Sure we'll drop a good chance every few years or so... like we did to the Pistons and Celtics, and Mavs...we still maintain focus on the big picture...your guys are done and you know it...I think that's why you guys are so frustrated...3 years in a row and the Spurs bowed out ungracefully...:lol team who's never won it all is really the only type of teams that can surprise us...it's like facing a boxer you know you can beat...can that boxer beat you...yes...why? because everyone has a punchers chance...that's how we view the mavs win...a punchers chance that they pulled off...:lol everyone knows it was a facade. Even Mav fan that's why they've all but disappeared...

[Koolaid_Man]

5 Star Thread Kool. Good job son. These haters can try to :downspin: this shit all they want but truth be told you are on point 110%.

2004 Pistons and 2008 Celtics would have made MJ's life a living hell as well. Especially with strong side zones, players that are at least comparible athletically guarding him, along with agile swatters like Sheed, Big Ben, and KG waiting to clean up any mistakes. MJ never faced anything like that in the Finals.

I'll go a step further. What WC team played lights out lockdown defense?

1991 Lakers - good "team defense" but no notable lock down defenders. Their anchor? Vlade Divac. 57 year old Magic past his prime was running the show

1992 Blazers - didn't play a lick of defense. They tried outscoring their opponents. 1st one to 150 wins! :lol

1993 Suns - the first time they play defense will be the first. KJ, Chuck, Marjerle - case closed

1996 Sonics - Glove made him shoot like crap all series. Like you said Legit title

1997 or 1998 Jazz - I put an asterisk on that 1998 title. MJ was guarded by Hornacek and 6'0" Stockton. Then that fucker pushed off on Russell when clearly it was an offensive foul. Who knows what would have happened in game 7

Even at gunpoint, I'll say with a straight face that there is NOTHING that MJ could do that Kobe couldn't. The only edge I give MJ on over Kobe is shot selection. And not really because MJ never played with Kwame, Smush, Brian Cook, or inconsistent ass Odom.

I'll go even further to the Shaq/Kobe days. In the fourth quarter you knew that Shaq wasn't getting the ball because he is a liability on the FT line. That means that Kobe would get double and triple teamed - even with Shaq on the court. Of course your shooting %s will take a dive if you are repeatedly being asked to bail your team out with < 5 seconds on the clock - no matter if you are 25 feet from the basket. You take away those types of possessions and I guarantee you Kobe shoots over 50%.

Put Kobe on MJ's Bulls and he might actually have more than 6 rings. He'll still get it though. And when he has 7 rings, and have more career points, I don't want to hear shit about MJ ever again. Matter of fact, MJ is probably behind this lockout. He trying to make sure Kobe don't ring again. Hey MJ, Kobe is coming for that azz!! :lol

excellent analysis homie...I hope he gets it with Dwight and Pau so they can really be mad about him playing with another big man...:lol

This is why I'm not as big on MJ...back in the day I could't make this argument because I didn't see it..I saw what everyone else saw..MJ dominating his opponents...now we can see a much more comprehensive picture of his success, why and how it happened.

Spur fan is just happy someone has 1 more ring than Kobe so they can't be objective...they'll lick MJ's balls to the day he die so as long as it's MJ 6> Kobe 5 :lol

and this shit right here is da ultimate proof..


I'll go even further to the Shaq/Kobe days. In the fourth quarter you knew that Shaq wasn't getting the ball because he is a liability on the FT line. That means that Kobe would get double and triple teamed - even with Shaq on the court. Of course your shooting %s will take a dive if you are repeatedly being asked to bail your team out with < 5 seconds on the clock - no matter if you are 25 feet from the basket. You take away those types of possessions and I guarantee you Kobe shoots over 50%. those early Laker title teams with Shaq and Kobe were built to compliment Shaq's talent; they were built around Shaq not Kobe...so anything Kobe did to excel was sheer will and determination. Because those early title teams were built around Shaq when he went out ( because he was a liability in the 4th) the players left on the floor didn't really compliment Kobe's game very well...and that's why Kobe was on an island ( getting doubled and tripled) and had to step up on both ends of the floor. ohh and he did so graciously carried they ass time and time and time again...

He didn't need no MVP to validate his game... real Laker G's... know what was up...

Perfect Example - One of his finals performances:
C7Lp5aQq4zI

[Koolaid_Man]

Where, Italy? Last time I saw that rat faced rapist he was being ushered out of the playoffs by the pie eyed piper Dirk.

Speaking of rat faces: :lol

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/Koolbreezey/Duncan%20dunks/popovich_gregg030428.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/Koolbreezey/Duncan%20dunks/nba_g_popovich_275.jpg

[Giuseppe]

^tee, hee.

[lefty]

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2011/0406/dm_110406_nba_kobe_hayward_debate.jpghttp://thatsenuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Kobe-Bryant-looks-at-the-hands-courtesy-foxsports.jpg

[DMC]

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50236_123045577705955_9853_n.jpg

http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2006/12/20/rat.jpg

[baseline bum]

1991 Lakers - good "team defense" but no notable lock down defenders. Their anchor? Vlade Divac. 57 year old Magic past his prime was running the show

You mean 31 year old Magic (still in his prime), right?

[mavs>spurs]

boiled down it's still

jordan 6
kobe 0

[Giuseppe]

boiled down it's still

jordan 6
kobe 0

I'm throwin' this in the boiling pot as well:::

Pippen: 6

Jordan: 0

[Killakobe81]

MJ is overrated by his generation. Underrated by Kobe and Lebron fanbois. A couple of thoughts on topics touched on in here.

1. Kobe's shot selection. Even more than Colorado, the #1 reason he is not considered by many to be on the same level as MJ. Jordan was prone to bad shots too, but not like Kobe. Kobe seems like he is trying to prove something by taking shots over 2 3 defenders at least 2 or 3 times a game and in his prime, probably closer to 4. He eliminates those not only is his FG% and PER higher, but he wins a few more close playoff and regular season games. Don't get me wrong you need to be able to hit those but he seems like he is competing with himself more than the opponent and sometimes he loses.

2. Let's not pretend that MJ did not have the benefit of being guarded by guys that no one in the modern game would even dream of defending Kobe or Lebron with. Sure, there wasnt a lot of choice for the Suns or Jazz they started Hersey Hawkins and Jeff Hornacek in 3 of the 6 Finals MJ was in but Lebron and Kobe would destroy those guys too. MJ was sooo ahead of his time. Sure he was great, his combination of athleticism and solid fundamentals was unmatched. Watch the old games. who was even in the same vicinity of Mj as an athlete up until he went to play baseball? Pippen, and Nique ...that's about it. MJ was so transcendent. He looks like he is a MACBOOK in the Apple IIC or Commodore 64 era. That takes nothing away from him, and the teams were better then, but 1 on 1 he had no peer. Kobe did. *

BTW, Lebron faces good athletes even better ones than either but he also has a MJ like advantage on them. ...he just doesnt use it as well as MJ. He prefers to play like Magic or Jack fall-away 3's. He has Malone's physique, Mj's athleticism, Magic's vision but hero mode Kobe shot selection at times, and Malone tendencies in the clutch.

3. MJ played on some weak teams too ... but none of Kobe's had 3 HOFers like the 2nd 3peat Bulls. And no team MJ played on, not even the wiz were as bad as the Smush, Luke, Mihm Lakers. I watched that team ...horrid.

[mavs>spurs]

I'm throwin' this in the boiling pot as well:::

Pippen: 6

Jordan: 0

a little pinch of bullshit thrown in won't change the recipe too much i dont think

[Giuseppe]

a little pinch of bullshit thrown in won't change the recipe too much i dont think

At least we don't have to talk about '06 anymore.

tee, hee.

[mavs>spurs]

yep it's all about '11 and the May 8 Massacre

[Koolaid_Man]

MJ is overrated by his generation. Underrated by Kobe and Lebron fanbois. A couple of thoughts on topics touched on in here.

1. Kobe's shot selection. Even more than Colorado, the #1 reason he is not considered by many to be on the same level as MJ. Jordan was prone to bad shots too, but not like Kobe. Kobe seems like he is trying to prove something by taking shots over 2 3 defenders at least 2 or 3 times a game and in his prime, probably closer to 4. He eliminates those not only is his FG% and PER higher, but he wins a few more close playoff and regular season games. Don't get me wrong you need to be able to hit those but he seems like he is competing with himself more than the opponent and sometimes he loses.

2. Let's not pretend that MJ had the benefit of being guarded by guys that no one in the modern game would even dream of defending Kobe or Lebron with. Sure, there wasnt a lot of choice for the Suns or Jazz they started Hersey Hawkins and Jeff Hornacek in 3 of the 6 Finals MJ was in but Lebron and Kobe would destroy those guys too. MJ was sooo ahead of his time. Sure he was great his combination of athleticism and solid fundamentals was unmatched. Watch the old games. who was even in the same vicinity of Mj as an athlete up until he went to play baseball? Pippen, and Nique ...that's about it. MJ was so transcendent. He looks like he is a MACBOOK in the Apple IIC or Commodore 64 era. That takes nothing away from him, and the teams were better then, but 1 on 1 he had no peer. Kobe did. *

BTW, Lebron faces good athletes even better ones than either but he also has a MJ like advantage on them. ...he just doesnt use it as well as MJ. He prefers to play like Magic or Jack fall-away 3's. He has Malone's physique, Mj's athleticism, Magic's vision but hero mode Kobe shot selection at times, and Malone tendencies in the clutch.

3. MJ played on some weak teams too ... but none of Kobe's had 3 HOFers like the 2nd 3peat Bulls. And no team MJ played on, not even the wiz were as bad as the Smush, Luke, Mihm Lakers. I watched that team ...horrid.

Not a bad take overall Killa but he looks like a MAC because he didn't have to worry about a Kobe, Wade, Lebron, TMac, or A.I coming back at him. He rested on defense, stole Pip's lime and got away with it. I'm not saying he wasn't the best amongst his peers I'm just saying he won easy because he had it easyPeriod...

[ElNono]

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2011/02/jordan-pippen-laugh.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0216/pg2_g_pippen_sy_576.jpg

[stretch]

MJ is overrated by his generation. Underrated by Kobe and Lebron fanbois. A couple of thoughts on topics touched on in here.

1. Kobe's shot selection. Even more than Colorado, the #1 reason he is not considered by many to be on the same level as MJ. Jordan was prone to bad shots too, but not like Kobe. Kobe seems like he is trying to prove something by taking shots over 2 3 defenders at least 2 or 3 times a game and in his prime, probably closer to 4. He eliminates those not only is his FG% and PER higher, but he wins a few more close playoff and regular season games. Don't get me wrong you need to be able to hit those but he seems like he is competing with himself more than the opponent and sometimes he loses.

2. Let's not pretend that MJ had the benefit of being guarded by guys that no one in the modern game would even dream of defending Kobe or Lebron with. Sure, there wasnt a lot of choice for the Suns or Jazz they started Hersey Hawkins and Jeff Hornacek in 3 of the 6 Finals MJ was in but Lebron and Kobe would destroy those guys too. MJ was sooo ahead of his time. Sure he was great his combination of athleticism and solid fundamentals was unmatched. Watch the old games. who was even in the same vicinity of Mj as an athlete up until he went to play baseball? Pippen, and Nique ...that's about it. MJ was so transcendent. He looks like he is a MACBOOK in the Apple IIC or Commodore 64 era. That takes nothing away from him, and the teams were better then, but 1 on 1 he had no peer. Kobe did. *

BTW, Lebron faces good athletes even better ones than either but he also has a MJ like advantage on them. ...he just doesnt use it as well as MJ. He prefers to play like Magic or Jack fall-away 3's. He has Malone's physique, Mj's athleticism, Magic's vision but hero mode Kobe shot selection at times, and Malone tendencies in the clutch.

3. MJ played on some weak teams too ... but none of Kobe's had 3 HOFers like the 2nd 3peat Bulls. And no team MJ played on, not even the wiz were as bad as the Smush, Luke, Mihm Lakers. I watched that team ...horrid.

This is a great summary. Couldn't have put it better myself, especially on MJ simply being ahead of his time. Very much like Wilt being way ahead of his time. While I think a prime MJ would still be the best player in today's game, it wouldn't be by as big of a margin as it was when he was playing. :toast

[Giuseppe]

yep it's all about '11 and the May 8 Massacre

Ain't no doubt about it. At 15 down--Dirk grabbed a handful of jacks & timbers & started back down.

If you think I grudge him & his after that you've another thing comin'.

[Killakobe81]

This is a great summary. Couldn't have put it better myself, especially on MJ simply being ahead of his time. Very much like Wilt being way ahead of his time. While I think a prime MJ would still be the best player in today's game, it wouldn't be by as big of a margin as it was when he was playing. :toast

agree. MJ would still be the best today but he would have to work even harder to do so. And if Lebron grew some balls, if MJ played today, it would be the first time he would of faced someone who was a better natural athlete than him. Kobe is a great athlete ... but not in MJ's or Lebron's class. Skill wise he is arguably better than both, especially in the low post but he aint on that level.

Also on Mj's side if he went back to the 70's only Dr. J and David Thompson could compete ...if played in the 60's he might of put up a 100 Like wilt.

[Gutter92]

fucking retard Kool thought Vince Carter was on the '09 Magic

honestly bro did u watch the Finals? do you watch your team play or just hop on the bandwagon when they win crofl

[baseline bum]

3. MJ played on some weak teams too ... but none of Kobe's had 3 HOFers like the 2nd 3peat Bulls.

Except for the one that had 4.

[ElNono]

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2011/02/jordan-pippen-laugh.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0216/pg2_g_pippen_sy_576.jpg

[mavs>spurs]

Kobe played with Shaq, the Odom/Bynum/Gasol trio front line, Rice, 2 of the most clutch role players of all time in Horry and Fisher, Caron Butler, Ron Artest, Payton, Malone, etc..

[djohn2oo8]

You left something out. MJ would have never guarded Kobe. History teaches us that he would have pulled a Duncan, and allowed Pippen to guard Kobe, just like Jim would always allow Robinson or some other scrub to guard Shaq. Also, Kobe would have guarded MJ... no question.

You all should leave James out of these comparisons. Hes not half the passer and floor general as Magic was. Hes nowhere even close as athletically as MJ was. In fact, hes out right clumsy, with poor footwork to boot. When you say Lebron has an MJ like advantage over his opposition like MJ did, are you just fucking with us, or are you that stupid? In one breath you say MJ was ahead of his time, then you go on to insult him by comparing him to a guy that cant execute a basic post move.

Personally, I think MJ was a smarter player than Kobe, with greater leaping skills. Those are the only advantages MJ had over Kobe.
MJ

Better Scorer
Better Defender
Better Leader
Better in the clutch
Better Teammate

[Ashy Larry]

at the time the Bulls played the Suns, wasn't Dan Majerle on the 2nd team All defense in 1991 and 1993????? Wasn't like Mike was guarded by a stiff.

[Ashy Larry]

You mean 31 year old Magic (still in his prime), right?

even though they're Laker fans, they're really shooting themselves in the foot. How could Magic be over the hill when he finished 2nd in the MVP voting and at 31 avg'd 19/12 and 7 :lmao

[Ashy Larry]

MJ

Better Scorer
Better Defender
Better Leader
Better in the clutch
Better Teammate


better scorer, yes.

better defender, yes. No way in hell Kobe should have been first team all defense this year based on that floating bullshit he did all year long. reputation award there.

better leader, yes. Mike's squads undefeated in the finals and never reached game seven and won 3 of those on the road.

Better in the clutch. You can say that pretty close. Might be even. Bryant has had many great moments and even Spur fans wouldn't want the ball in Kobe's hands at the end of the game.

Better teammate. They're even on this. Both push their teammates but can be complete assholes.

[Ashy Larry]

You think Steve Kerr and Horace Grant would say MJ was a better teammate.

According to PJ, Kobe is more clutch.

MJ refused to guard the other teams best wing man, Kobe did.

MJ has never scored 81 in a game, or 42 in a half. Oh, and that 42 in a half Kobe dropped was on MJ.

Ill give you better leader. MJ was more vocal.

Was that on a 40 year old Mike or a 25 year old Mike? Because we damn well know if Jordan was 25, that 42 wouldn't have happened ........

[Ashy Larry]

Magic could still get his numbers, but he was far from the fat break wizard that made him famous. He basically lived in the post once Kareem retired. Seeing him struggle to get up and down the floor against Pippen was agonizing. Lebron will be there soon, with no post game.


but to say he was over the hill even after putting up the season he did and finishing 2nd in the mvp voting is crazy.

Mike's titles are legit. Won the ring on the Forum floor. They really won that 1991 title after Isiah and the Pisstains walked off the floor like bitches and knew they had to pass the torch.

1992 - defeated an athletic team. The same squad they should have faced in 1991 but that over the hill dude took care of that.

1993 - Won in six games on the Suns floor against the reigning MVP and against a 2nd team all defensive player, who I may add, had the best record in the league.

1996 - against another athletic squad and even though he struggled with a 41% FG, that series was over after three games. They worked the Sonix with two blowouts i the first 3 games. And what made Mike that year was he developed that fallaway while filming SpaceJam and redeemed himself after that performance against the Magic with a 4-0 ECF.

1997 & 1998 - combination of things. won the title in 1997 after being guard mostly by Bryon Russell; but the Jazz can only blame themselves for 1998. Pippen with a bad back. Harper was ill. Jazz had home court. And somehow Mike willed that team to the finish line. And won on the Jazz's floor.

Kobe's great but will always be the 2nd best shooting guard of all time, unless he does something spectacular in these next five years.

[stretch]

Dan was scrappy, tough, in your face type of defender. Far from a lock down guy like Christie, Bowen, Manu, Battier, Prince, Raja, Marion, and the list goes on.

:lmao @ any of these guys being considered legit lockdown guys. Bruce Bowen is the only true lockdown defender on this list. the rest are just good defenders that still have exploitable weaknesses. Bowen BY FAR has the fewest defensive weakness of any of these guys. And even he had certain guys he struggled to defend, such as Josh Howard.

[Koolaid_Man]

Was that on a 40 year old Mike or a 25 year old Mike? Because we damn well know if Jordan was 25, that 42 wouldn't have happened ........

U out your gotdam mind...based in what...why wouldn't it have when Pippen covered for MJ his whole career. MJ couldn't guard Kobe...in fact never faced a player like Kobe...if Kobe didn't score MJ wouldn't have had shit to do with it. :lol

Dude got defensive honors cuz the media liked his ass....nothing more nothing less...Pippen was the man on D...stop pipe dreaming homie...

[Killakobe81]

You left something out. MJ would have never guarded Kobe. History teaches us that he would have pulled a Duncan, and allowed Pippen to guard Kobe, just like Jim would always allow Robinson or some other scrub to guard Shaq. Also, Kobe would have guarded MJ... no question.

You all should leave James out of these comparisons. Hes not half the passer and floor general as Magic was. Hes nowhere even close as athletically as MJ was. In fact, hes out right clumsy, with poor footwork to boot. When you say Lebron has an MJ like advantage over his opposition like MJ did, are you just fucking with us, or are you that stupid? In one breath you say MJ was ahead of his time, then you go on to insult him by comparing him to a guy that cant execute a basic post move.

Personally, I think MJ was a smarter player than Kobe, with greater leaping skills. Those are the only advantages MJ had over Kobe.

Skill-wise, you are correct Lebron compares to neither his lack of footwork and post game being great examples ...plus I hate the way he falls back on his pull up 3. But from a PHYSICAL standpoint how can anyone not say he has many of the same gifts as MJ? Lebron maybe as fast and jump as high plus he LOOKS stronger. Granted he does not use that bulk as well as a lithe, muscular MJ, but my point was Lebron has the physical tools to be GOAT ...he just may never get there. And it looks so far that he won't.

[Killakobe81]

And physically he is SUPERIOR (LBJ) to Kobe, he is just not the better skill player.

[Ashy Larry]

...

[Ashy Larry]

U out your gotdam mind...based in what...why wouldn't it have when Pippen covered for MJ his whole career. MJ couldn't guard Kobe...in fact never faced a player like Kobe...if Kobe didn't score MJ wouldn't have had shit to do with it. :lol

Dude got defensive honors cuz the media liked his ass....nothing more nothing less...Pippen was the man on D...stop pipe dreaming homie...


I agree Scottie was the best defensive player on the bulls and the best all-around defensive player in the league at that time; but Mike was no chopped liver. And having Pippen guard the best offensive player was genius.

Put Mike on the best offensive player and rely on "I have a migraine" or "I'm sitting out in the playoffs because I won't get the last shot" Pippen to carry you offensively equals a complete fail.

Compare Mike's defensive numbers to Kobe's defensive numbers and it's not even close. Hell, when was the last time Kobe actually worked on the defense end of the court?

[Killakobe81]

Pippen, Horace, Cartwright shits on Odom, Bynum, Gasol

Paxon, Kerr, and Hodges were not only more clutch than Fish, and Horry, but they are alltime great shooters.

Malone, Rice, and Payton, and Artert were bums when we got em. Even still, Oakley, Rodman, Kucok, Ron Harper, Pippen, and BJ were better.

Kobe has never had reliability coming off the bench during this last run. Walton, Sasha, Fartmar. Odom has basically been a starter due to Bynums injuries.

I love the respect Bynum's given when it is time to discredit Kobe ...Bynum outside of the Perkins injury has had little impact on Kobe's last 2 rings.

Cant agree that Paxson Kerr and Hodges are more clutch than Fisher and Horry. Those guys were specialists. Horry and Fisher gave you clutch shooting (though not as accurate as the Bulls guys) and were better players too. they provided clutch steals, charges taken (Fisher) or blocks (Horry)

[Killakobe81]

I agree Scottie was the best defensive player on the bulls and the best all-around defensive player in the league at that time; but Mike was no chopped liver. And having Pippen guard the best offensive player was genius.

Put Mike on the best offensive player and rely on "I have a migraine" or "I'm sitting out in the playoffs because I won't get the last shot" Pippen to carry you offensively equals a complete fail.

Compare Mike's defensive numbers to Kobe's defensive numbers and it's not even close. Hell, when was the last time Kobe actually worked on the defense end of the court?

Agree his effort on that end, has been a disappointment in the consistency department. But there are times when he still locks in (not lockdown those days are probably gone) so when people say he never tries that's bullshit. But when he plays Sacto or Toronto he pretty much doesnt even try and prefers to rebound or double team the best post player or help on a quick PG and gamble for steals.

[Killakobe81]

Comparing their numbers is worthless. Kobe played against better offensive players, and he actually guarded them, unlike MJ. You got Pippen over Rodman in defense? You got him over the Glove?

Not over GP, but over Bulls era Rodman? Yes. Pistons era Rodamn tough call. rodman could gaurd big men, pip could not. rodman could not guard PG's Pippen could. I say Rodman but it's closer than you might think.

[stretch]

Hey look, dont change the size of my font, you asshole. If you want to to highlight me, then fine, but leave my font the way it is.

:sleep


Everyone of those guys were considered lock down defenders until Kobe made them look average. In fact, with the exception of Manu, none of them would even be in the league if it wasnt for their defense.

I don't disagree they are defensive minded players, (aside from Marion, he was useful in a number of ways) and that they made the league mainly due to that, but it doesnt make them some sorts of extreme lockdown defenders. Very good, no question, but capable of being scored on by elite scorers. MJ would be able to handle them just fine, much like Kobe has been able to.

[Ashy Larry]

Yup. If you dont want that, then take the 33 a 19 year old Kobe dropped in MJ and Pippen. Its funny how you guys discredit what Kobe did to MJ during his late years, but glorify what MJ did to a worn out Magic.


lol @ 33 points dropped on Mike and Pippen. :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao


First of all, the game was a blowout. STRIKE ONE

secondly, Pippen did not play STRIKE TWO

Thirdly, Kobe scored a total of nine points against Mike. Most of the rest was in garbage time and Mike was on the bench.

need proof????


check the film

JUg4CWX6eus

22 points not against Mike. Nine against ... give or take 3. Granted, he had some great moves to show his future greatness, but 33 or 42 would not have been dropped on MJ.

Unlike you guys, I love to bring the visual proof and facts instead of, opinion. So when you say he dropped 33 on Mike, please change that to let's say errrrrrrrrrr, nine or ten.

[Koolaid_Man]

Yup. If you dont want that, then take the 33 a 19 year old Kobe dropped in MJ and Pippen. Its funny how you guys discredit what Kobe did to MJ during his late years, but glorify what MJ did to a worn out Magic.

A fucking men....:lol

Ashy and Killa mean well but the can't see the forest for the trees it whatever the bell that saying is...:lol

Its more of the same MJ did it all when that nigga didn't. I bought some of the hype back in the day but the Illuminati especially the black Illuminati opened my eyes...that's why I'm so armed with knowledge and dangerous...

MJ had no defense for Kobe's range...MJ was used to beating up on niggas like John Starks and shit...Kool is not impressed...a 2002- 2006 Kobe would have given MJ the business and MJ would have fouled out trying to guard Kobe because his ass wasn't used to checking the opposing best players....a prime Kobe in the West with a prime MJ in the East and we getting half those fucking titles. :lol

[Ashy Larry]

Yup. If you dont want that, then take the 33 a 19 year old Kobe dropped in MJ and Pippen. Its funny how you guys discredit what Kobe did to MJ during his late years, but glorify what MJ did to a worn out Magic.


Magic was 31 and 2nd in MVP voting. Still in great shape.


Jordan was ....... :lmao 40 and completely shot.

No comparison. Once again, that's not opinion. That's "fact".

[Killakobe81]

Except for the one that had 4.

Fair point, but come on neither of those guys were all-stars at that point. But I admit my mistake. I pretty much try to block out that season and the one wher yall ended the 4peat ...too much in-fighting caused me not enjoy the Lakers even when they won the third one ...

But that's a "tommy point" point for you! :toast

[Koolaid_Man]

lol @ 33 points dropped on Mike and Pippen. :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao


First of all, the game was a blowout. STRIKE ONE

secondly, Pippen did not play STRIKE TWO

Thirdly, Kobe scored a total of nine points against Mike. Most of the rest was in garbage time and Mike was on the bench.

need proof????


check the film

JUg4CWX6eus

22 points not against Mike. Nine against ... give or take 3. Granted, he had some great moves to show his future greatness, but 33 or 42 would not have been dropped on MJ.

Unlike you guys, I love to bring the visual proof and facts instead of, opinion. So when you say he dropped 33 on Mike, please change that to let's say errrrrrrrrrr, nine or ten.


None of that means shit the point is...don't try and discredit what a yung Kobe did to MJ while at the same time glorify what a prime MJ done to a worn and HIV riddled Magic.

[Koolaid_Man]

Magic was 31 and 2nd in MVP voting. Still in great shape.


Jordan was ....... :lmao 40 and completely shot.

No comparison. Once again, that's not opinion. That's "fact".

Magic was an old 31....with HIV how old was MJ

[Ashy Larry]

None of that means shit the point is...don't try and discredit what a yung Kobe did to MJ while at the same time glorify what a prime MJ done to a worn and HIV riddled Magic.


Like I previously stated, you guys brings opinion. I bring facts. Luva said Kobe dropped 33 points on Jordan and Pippen and had zero facts. I proceeded to take his theory, throw it in the air, yelled PULL and shot that shit out of the sky with actual "facts". Don't say shit and don't bring anything to back it up.

Same with that Tyson debate we had. I brought facts. You brought opinion. Now no one is discrediting Kobe. The baskets he did score on Mike showed his true greatness. But dont say he dropped 33 on Mike and Scottie with (1) knowing Scottie didn't play and (2) knowing that it was a blow out and Mike was on the pine.

[stretch]

Like I previously stated, you guys brings opinion. I bring facts. Luva said Kobe dropped 33 points on Jordan and Pippen and had zero facts. I proceeded to take his theory, throw it in the air, yelled PULL and shot that shit out of the sky with actual "facts". Don't say shit and don't bring anything to back it up.

Same with that Tyson debate we had. I brought facts. You brought opinion. Now no one is discrediting Kobe. The baskets he did score on Mike showed his true greatness. But dont say he dropped 33 on Mike and Scottie with (1) knowing Scottie didn't play and (2) knowing that it was a blow out and Mike was on the pine.

:lmao

it cracks me up when extreme kobe lovers use that as an argument that Kobe > MJ

[Ashy Larry]

Magic was an old 31....with HIV how old was MJ


do the math. mike born in '63 .... game was during the 02-03 season. Dude was either an old 39 or a young 40. Since the game was in March, Mike was 40.

[Killakobe81]

A fucking men....:lol

Ashy and Killa mean well but the can't see the forest for the trees it whatever the bell that saying is...:lol

Its more of the same MJ did it all when that nigga didn't. I bought some of the hype back in the day but the Illuminati especially the black Illuminati opened my eyes...that's why I'm so armed with knowledge and dangerous...

MJ had no defense for Kobe's range...MJ was used to beating up on niggas like John Starks and shit...Kool is not impressed...a 2002- 2006 Kobe would have given MJ the business and MJ would have fouled out trying to guard Kobe because his ass wasn't used to checking the opposing best players....a prime Kobe in the West with a prime MJ in the East and we getting half those fucking titles. :lol

Hey I have no problem with you digging in the Spur fan's ass, do YOU player!

But I just figured in between the trolling and flaming we could have some bball talk about MJ vs. Kobe vs. Lebron.

Funny thing is, I agree with a PARt of what you and Luva are saying The league was in a lull especially the 2nd 3 peat for MJ. All of Mj's rings are legit but come on, as good as Stockton was, no way that team could even beat Dallas, miami, lakers of this past season. (or even chicago or OKC if they played smart). An all white backourt that is ALSO under 6 foot 4 may NEVER even make it back to the Finals. Not trying to be racist, just being honest. that's not a knock on MJ he beat the best teams he faced, but imagine them trying to handle Wade or Rose.

The rest of your thesis it's hard to tell if you are just pissing gasoline on a fire ... or if you really believe Kobe will surpass MJ.

[Killakobe81]

Magic was 31 and 2nd in MVP voting. Still in great shape.


Jordan was ....... :lmao 40 and completely shot.

No comparison. Once again, that's not opinion. That's "fact".

Some good points, Ashy. And im not even taking up their cause ...but Magic "peaked" with outsing the Blazers. He had an amazing series truly underrated how he beat a younger favored Blazers team without HCA. Especially with an aging Worthy/Scott and a young vlade.

But his best days were past him. Not washed up, just on the "other side of his peak" ...like kobe is now. Pippen deserves much praise but no way he does what he did to a "prime" Magic.


Using MVP voting is a mixed bag. it wasnt the joke it has been recently. But we all know Mj and Kobe would both have a few more if they did that shit correctly.

[LkrFan]

You mean 31 year old Magic (still in his prime), right?

Most likely Magic was HIV+ by then. So he wasn't really Magic. Besides, when Magic was actually in his prime, MJ had just as many rings as you and me. Remember, he didn't rang until the league started expanding and after Bird/Magic were past their primes.

I'd give him major props if he even won one ring during showtime era. Guess what? He wasn't good enough. :downspin:

[Ashy Larry]

Some good points, Ashy. And im not even taking up their cause ...but Magic "peaked" with outsing the Blazers. He had an amazing series truly underrated how he beat a younger favored Blazers team without HCA. Especially with an Worthy/Scott plus a young vlade.

But his best days were past him. Not washed up just on the "other side of his peak" ...like kobe is now. Pippen deserves much praise but no way he does what he did to a "prime" Magic.


Using MVP voting is a mixed bag. it wasnt the joke it has been recently. But we all know Mj and Kobe would both have a few more if they did that shit correctly.


totally agree. Magic was where Kobe is right now. On the downside of his career and remember, Magic came back HIV infected at age 36 and avg'd 14.6/7/6. To say he was over the hill in 1991 is asinine. Was he on the wrong side of his peak? Of course. But done? Far from.

[Ashy Larry]

Most likely Magic was HIV+ by then. So he wasn't really Magic. Besides, when Magic was actually in his prime, MJ had just as many rings as you and me. Remember, he didn't rang until the league started expanding and after Bird/Magic were past their primes.

I'd give him major props if he even won one ring during showtime era. Guess what? He wasn't good enough. :downspin:


during that Showtime era, not many were good enough. Detroit and Atlanta can testify to that. And MJ's squad during that era was either booty or young and just coming together. Jordan would have had to get by Detroit, get by Boston; or vice versa ... then get by the Lakers or possibly the Rockets. Wasn't happening in that era.

[Ashy Larry]

Hey I have no problem with you digging in the Spur fan's ass, do YOU player!

But I just figured in between the trolling and flaming we could have some bball talk about MJ vs. Kobe vs. Lebron.

Funny thing is, I agree with a PARt of what you and Luva are saying The league was in a lull especially the 2nd 3 peat for MJ. All of Mj's rings are legit but come on, as good as Stockton was, no way that team could even beat Dallas, miami, lakers of this past season. (or even chicago or OKC if they played smart). An all white backourt that is ALSO under 6 foot 4 may NEVER even make it back to the Finals. Not trying to be racist, just being honest. that's not a knock on MJ he beat the best teams he faced, but imagine them trying to handle Wade or Rose.

The rest of your thesis it's hard to tell if you are just pissing gasoline on a fire ... or if you really believe Kobe will surpass MJ.


LeBron has really gotta scratch. That's his problem and losing to the Mavs didn't help. Dude not only lost to the Mavs but had a horrific series especially in the 4th.

Jordan and Bryant are clearly proven.

[Ashy Larry]

Whell then I guess Jordan wasnt ahead of his time as much as you claim. Old Malone could guard Duncan. Old Kareem could guard the centers that came along in the mid 80s. MJ couldnt guard Kobe at no point in his career, and thats fact. Kobe at 19 drops 33 in MJ. MJ at 40 gets 42 in one half dropped on him by Kobe. Pick your poison.



:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao


obviously you didn't read my previous post that literally destroyed this 33 pointS on MJ argument ........ go to page three sir and then reply. YouR shit was blown to bits .......



PULL






BLAMO

[Ashy Larry]

Save the film, ash. Kobe would get any shot he wanted against MJ head to head. MJ would get his as well.

answer this simple question. very simple.

did he score 33 points on Jordan and Pippen as you claimed?




:toast we know the answer. Can't save the film when it basically shows you your claim was false.

[Ashy Larry]

Whell then I guess Jordan wasnt ahead of his time as much as you claim. Old Malone could guard Duncan. Old Kareem could guard the centers that came along in the mid 80s. MJ couldnt guard Kobe at no point in his career, and thats fact. Kobe at 19 drops 33 in MJ. MJ at 40 gets 42 in one half dropped on him by Kobe. Pick your poison.


And you may wanna take this back as well because according to the film, in the first quarter so far, unless Mike transformed to look like Jerry Stackhouse and Bryon Russell, he is gettin' lit :lmao


I will say, Bryant was probably the best player in the league at this time, and maybe beginning a year prior.

[Ashy Larry]

GSaKPHSEtRM

[stretch]

Im not a Kobe lover. And Kobe is not better than MJ. I just know for a fact that MJ could not guard Kobe at any point during his career. If MJ hadnt been such a fucking quitter, and Shaq being so lazy, maybe we would have seen them head to head in the finals.

I don't think either one of them could consistently stop each other. Both are just too damn good. But the difference is Kobe can be baited into bad shots 100000x easier than MJ. MJ would figure that out, and exploit that before Kobe finds a weakness of MJ to exploit.

[Ashy Larry]

I don't think either one of them could consistently stop each other. Both are just too damn good. But the difference is Kobe can be baited into bad shots 100000x easier than MJ. MJ would figure that out, and exploit that before Kobe finds a weakness of MJ to exploit.


The reason why I say Kobe wouldn't get 33 or 42 "on" Mike is because he would have to guard the same dude on the other end of the floor. And many players have said, Mike was pound-for-pound, one of the strongest dudes in the league. That would take a toll on Kobe; and it could go vice versa but it would probably be easier for Mike.

[LkrFan]

Was that on a 40 year old Mike or a 25 year old Mike? Because we damn well know if Jordan was 25, that 42 wouldn't have happened ........

If Kobe doesn't drop drop 42, it would be because prime Pippen was in his grill. MJ was protected from the opposition's best perimeter player because of Pippen. Funny how most fans ignore this fact.

[Stalin]

head to head jordan would rape and shit all over kobe, only a kobe dick jockey would think otherwise, tbh

[Koolaid_Man]

GSaKPHSEtRM

So let me get this straight we should only count the POINTS that Kobe scored when MJ was guarding him. I thought we count the points a player drops on the opposing team and its subsequent leader...by your logic MJ didn't really drop 62 on Bird just the Celtics...I guess all the beat writers will have to change their language...this tells me Ashy you haven't played a lick of competitive ( non street ball) in your life. :lol

[LkrFan]

The reason why I say Kobe wouldn't get 33 or 42 "on" Mike is because he would have to guard the same dude on the other end of the floor. And many players have said, Mike was pound-for-pound, one of the strongest dudes in the league. That would take a toll on Kobe; and it could go vice versa but it would probably be easier for Mike.

You act like Kobe is weak as Durant or something. I've seen Kobe post up 270lb LBJ, Pierce, Melo, etc. You think he wouldn't be able to post up MJ? :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

The reason why I say Kobe wouldn't get 33 or 42 "on" Mike is because he would have to guard the same dude on the other end of the floor. And many players have said, Mike was pound-for-pound, one of the strongest dudes in the league. That would take a toll on Kobe; and it could go vice versa but it would probably be easier for Mike.

Well not according to Phil...Phil said the only difference between the two was MJ had bigger hands and that Kobe had better range...If Bruce Bowen couldn't defend Kobe what in the fuck you think MJ would have been able to do...:lol

[LkrFan]

Nique used to give MJ fits. He couldn't deal with Nique. Well, Kobe >>>>>>> Nique. If MJ couldn't stop Nique, how could he stop Kobe from dropping 50 on him? MJ never faced a player like Kobe. Like others have said he was before his time.

What Kobe is still doing against players that are healthier, stronger and more athletic than he is right now is amazing in itself. All that mileage, 15th year, and an array of ailments and he still gave us 25 per. Impressive. :toast

[Ashy Larry]

So let me get this straight we should only count the POINTS that Kobe scored when MJ was guarding him. I thought we count the points a player drops on the opposing team and its subsequent leader...by your logic MJ didn't really drop 62 on Bird just the Celtics...I guess all the beat writers will have to change their language...this tells me Ashy you haven't played a lick of competitive ( non street ball) in your life. :lol


no it's just fun to blow y'alls shit up from time to time. Saying Kobe scored 33 on Mike is saying he scored all those points while Jordan was guarding him. That's why I say Jordan dropped 63 on the C's and not Bird because (1) Bird plays SF and (2) K.C. Jones wouldn't be that dumb.

Kobe scored 33, true, but most was in the 4th quarter when the game was out of reach. So technically, he didn't score 33 on Mike, he scored 33 on the Bulls in a game that didn't have Shaquille or Pippen and that was a complete ass kicking........

[Ashy Larry]

You act like Kobe is weak as Durant or something. I've seen Kobe post up 270lb LBJ, Pierce, Melo, etc. You think he wouldn't be able to post up MJ? :lol

He would post up Mike, of course. I'm saying Mike would push him around and of course Kobe would push back. They would wear one another out, hence, Kobe would drop 30+ on Jordan as what your buds are saying. He'
ll score on Mike but scoring a large amount of point "on" him, I just don't see. He'd spend a shitload of energy on the other end.

Would be a great matchup nonetheless.

[Koolaid_Man]

He would post up Mike, of course. I'm saying Mike would push him around and of course Kobe would push back. They would wear one another out, hence, Kobe would drop 30+ on Jordan as what your buds are saying. He'
ll score on Mike but scoring a large amount of point "on" him, I just don't see. He'd spend a shitload of energy on the other end.

Would be a great matchup nonetheless.

So what u sayin is MJ was a better defender than Bruce Bowen, Thabo Shefelosa, Ron Artest, Toby Allen, Rueben Patterson, Doug Christie, and all the guys who's claim to fame was their hellacious D....really MJ was better on D than Bowen..and we all know what Kobe did to Bowen... MJ would have got it worse...

[Ashy Larry]

head to head jordan would rape and shit all over kobe, only a kobe dick jockey would think otherwise, tbh

it would a great battle. funny thing is if you asked any other fan base except the Laker and Bull bases, Jordan would undoubtedly get the nod.

Many Laker fans use number when comparing Kobe and LeBron but those same numbers aren't applicable when it comes to Mike vs Kobe. In every aspect of stats, leadership and all in between, Mike shits on Kobe constantly. The only place he doesn't is LG.net. And this is from a Lakers' fan who is unbiased as hell.

[LkrFan]

He would post up Mike, of course. I'm saying Mike would push him around and of course Kobe would push back. They would wear one another out, hence, Kobe would drop 30+ on Jordan as what your buds are saying. He'
ll score on Mike but scoring a large amount of point "on" him, I just don't see. He'd spend a shitload of energy on the other end.

Would be a great matchup nonetheless.

Agreed. Like Tex said, there would be blood if these two matched up in their primes. Kobe has had to do more than MJ did - against better competition - and still was arguably top dog in the league. By more I mean, he had to make sure Shaq was fed, as well as covering defensively for Fish (PGs ate him for breakfast, lunch and dinner), as well as drop 30+. MJ had Pippen to do that kind of dirty work. I'm not saying MJ was no slouch, but we're kidding ourselves if we think he had the same types of responsibilities Kobe has.

I still say that if Kobe were in the league back in '84ish, he would have duplicated if not built upon MJ's successes. Players that are more athletic right now can't check this dude and he going into his 16th year - which is unheard of. People talk about LBJ's defense. Well, like Pop did with Duncan against a premiere big, Mike Brown protected him by not letting him guard Kobe until like the 4th quarter or key possessions. Why? Because they both knew both their star players would foul out (Duncan against Shaq and LBJ against Kobe). No one and I mean no one could guard this dude one on one. They needed strongside zones and other gimmicks to deal with him.

Case in point: San Antonio has had one of the best defensive teams in league history for a long time. But they still had to go out and get Bruce Lee Bowen to deal with Kobe - despite their twin towers. Speaks to Kobe's greatness because the same concessions were not made for the "MDE".

81 was great, but if PJ left Kobe in the game when he outscored the Mavs 62-61 after 3 quarters, he would have ended up with about 90 that night. No joke. Kobe's a streaky shooter and he was ON that night. The funny part is Mavs were contenders that year and Kobe destroyed them. :lol

This is not to you in particular, but it's ok to recognize Kobe's greatness and still love MJ - who's legend grows year by year. :toast

[lefty]

Tex Winter :lmao


Dude is senile

[Koolaid_Man]

it would a great battle. funny thing is if you asked any other fan base except the Laker and Bull bases, Jordan would undoubtedly get the nod.

Many Laker fans use number when comparing Kobe and LeBron but those same numbers aren't applicable when it comes to Mike vs Kobe. In every aspect of stats, leadership and all in between, Mike shits on Kobe constantly. The only place he doesn't is LG.net. And this is from a Lakers' fan who is unbiased as hell.

Only from a perspective of those who haven't played the game...the day that MJ has to share the ball with Shaq is the day his stats resemble Kobe's...that's it. Kobes proved he didn't need Shaq to win titles...in fact if it wasn't for Wade getting all those bogus calls in 2006 Shaq would still be sitting at 3...

[LkrFan]

Tex Winter :lmao


Dude is senile

Coached both players. PJ's secret weapon and mastermind behind the triangle. HOFer.

He has cred. Neal with it. :downspin:

[Ashy Larry]

Only from a perspective of those who haven't played the game...the day that MJ has to share the ball with Shaq is the day his stats resemble Kobe's...that's it. Kobes proved he didn't need Shaq to win titles...in fact if it wasn't for Wade getting all those bogus calls in 2006 Shaq would still be sitting at 3...



classic :lmao hint. hint: I played for the University of Alabama in 1992. but I've never played the game :lmao

OK. Don't get upset because I constantly shit on your theories and present factual information during debates and you bring, well, thread titles:lmao. start bringing facts to the table.

[Ashy Larry]

Agreed. Like Tex said, there would be blood if these two matched up in their primes. Kobe has had to do more than MJ did - against better competition - and still was arguably top dog in the league. By more I mean, he had to make sure Shaq was fed, as well as covering defensively for Fish (PGs ate him for breakfast, lunch and dinner), as well as drop 30+. MJ had Pippen to do that kind of dirty work. I'm not saying MJ was no slouch, but we're kidding ourselves if we think he had the same types of responsibilities Kobe has.

I still say that if Kobe were in the league back in '84ish, he would have duplicated if not built upon MJ's successes. Players that are more athletic right now can't check this dude and he going into his 16th year - which is unheard of. People talk about LBJ's defense. Well, like Pop did with Duncan against a premiere big, Mike Brown protected him by not letting him guard Kobe until like the 4th quarter or key possessions. Why? Because they both knew both their star players would foul out (Duncan against Shaq and LBJ against Kobe). No one and I mean no one could guard this dude one on one. They needed strongside zones and other gimmicks to deal with him.

Case in point: San Antonio has had one of the best defensive teams in league history for a long time. But they still had to go out and get Bruce Lee Bowen to deal with Kobe - despite their twin towers. Speaks to Kobe's greatness because the same concessions were not made for the "MDE".

81 was great, but if PJ left Kobe in the game when he outscored the Mavs 62-61 after 3 quarters, he would have ended up with about 90 that night. No joke. Kobe's a streaky shooter and he was ON that night. The funny part is Mavs were contenders that year and Kobe destroyed them. :lol

This is not to you in particular, but it's ok to recognize Kobe's greatness and still love MJ - who's legend grows year by year. :toast


Definitely. Bryant would have been a beast in the 80s. Not the teenage Kobe but the 2002-2009 Bryant. Drop him in the 80s and he'd probably light it up. But it would test his psyche just like it tested Mike's especially when dealing with Detroit. What would Kobe do if the Bad Boys light him up constantly? I think he would hold his own very well.

Also, those old school players are just bad asses. Kobe's an old school player. All those forced shots would probably get him fucked up if he was on thee wrong team. He wouldn't do that shit on a Magic Johnson led squad. Kareem would probably Bruce Lee his ass.

[Ashy Larry]

Tex Winter :lmao


Dude is senile


Finally good to see him get in the Hall nonetheless........

sucks when they give you the honor after you're six feet deep ........

[Koolaid_Man]

classic :lmao hint. hint: I played for the University of Alabama in 1992. but I've never played the game :lmao

OK. Don't get upset because I constantly shit on your theories and present factual information during debates and you bring, well, thread titles:lmao. start bringing facts to the table.

trying to shit on Kool will only cause constipation. The only thing you've given is your gotdam opinion nothing more...you haven't said shit...facts? Benedict please...:lol

[Ashy Larry]

trying to shit on Kool will only cause constipation. The only thing you've given is your gotdam opinion nothing more...you haven't said shit...facts? Benedict please...:lol


not really .... you guys help me pass the time when I'm at work. And facts?? Just go to the Tyson thread. But wait, all that documentation, even from the WBC, doesn't count ....... yes, you're right. :lmao


Remember, keep things in perspective. This is a sports forum.

[Koolaid_Man]

not really .... you guys help me pass the time when I'm at work. And facts?? Just go to the Tyson thread. But wait, all that documentation, even from the WBC, doesn't count ....... yes, you're right. :lmao


Remember, keep things in perspective. This is a sports forum.

Facts to you I call BS....you've proved nothing in this thread except that your are good friends w Arnold and that you steal time from your employer...

[ElNono]

Lakerfan on Lakerfan violence... to think they used to make light of Spurfan on Spurfan violence... The Skunker seems to have left it's mark... smh

[Giuseppe]

The Skunker!!!

[Ashy Larry]

Facts to you I call BS....you've proved nothing in this thread except that your are good friends w Arnold and that you steal time from your employer...

damn right I steal from the employer ... I should get another 8 g's around tax time. And I think i proved enough in that thread. You stated there was no step aside fee. I showed you where there were two. Doesn't count. lol


All in good fun though .....

[BlackSwordsMan]

They're called house laker fans. They're around to appease us spur fans.

[BlackSwordsMan]

When Kool ad nausem posts how kobe's dick is bigger than Duncan's -- Venti will log on and say no keep the balance.

[Koolaid_Man]

damn right I steal from the employer ... I should get another 8 g's around tax time. And I think i proved enough in that thread. You stated there was no step aside fee. I showed you where there were two. Doesn't count. lol


All in good fun though .....


You ain't showed me shit you thieving muthafucka..:lol

Niggas...I tell ya...

Even though imma put you in my two-timing bucket...you'll still get an invite to my MJ's ass is grass party once we rang 6th.:toast

[Ashy Larry]

You ain't showed me shit you thieving muthafucka..:lol

Niggas...I tell ya...

Even though imma put you in my two-timing bucket...you'll still get an invite to my MJ's ass is grass party once we rang 6th.:toast


gotta rob from Mr. Charlie and Ms. Ann ...... whenever you can get over on Johnny Whiteboy, the world is a better place .......

[Giuseppe]

They're called house laker fans. They're around to appease us spur fans.

Bend over. I'll fuckin' appease ya.

[mavs>spurs]

Yup. If you dont want that, then take the 33 a 19 year old Kobe dropped in MJ and Pippen. Its funny how you guys discredit what Kobe did to MJ during his late years, but glorify what MJ did to a worn out Magic.

kobe getting all hyped up against a pippen/mj who didn't take him seriously in A meaningless regular season game (1) doesn't mean shit

[Koolaid_Man]

MJ took everyone serious. And he was trying to win every game. Just look at how he almost killed himself playing against these old ass men.:downspin:

u9LYkRdLfS4


here's mine:


ZvbR7Uoxymw

[Killakobe81]

Agreed. Like Tex said, there would be blood if these two matched up in their primes. Kobe has had to do more than MJ did - against better competition - and still was arguably top dog in the league. By more I mean, he had to make sure Shaq was fed, as well as covering defensively for Fish (PGs ate him for breakfast, lunch and dinner), as well as drop 30+. MJ had Pippen to do that kind of dirty work. I'm not saying MJ was no slouch, but we're kidding ourselves if we think he had the same types of responsibilities Kobe has.

I still say that if Kobe were in the league back in '84ish, he would have duplicated if not built upon MJ's successes. Players that are more athletic right now can't check this dude and he going into his 16th year - which is unheard of. People talk about LBJ's defense. Well, like Pop did with Duncan against a premiere big, Mike Brown protected him by not letting him guard Kobe until like the 4th quarter or key possessions. Why? Because they both knew both their star players would foul out (Duncan against Shaq and LBJ against Kobe). No one and I mean no one could guard this dude one on one. They needed strongside zones and other gimmicks to deal with him.

Case in point: San Antonio has had one of the best defensive teams in league history for a long time. But they still had to go out and get Bruce Lee Bowen to deal with Kobe - despite their twin towers. Speaks to Kobe's greatness because the same concessions were not made for the "MDE".

81 was great, but if PJ left Kobe in the game when he outscored the Mavs 62-61 after 3 quarters, he would have ended up with about 90 that night. No joke. Kobe's a streaky shooter and he was ON that night. The funny part is Mavs were contenders that year and Kobe destroyed them. :lol

This is not to you in particular, but it's ok to recognize Kobe's greatness and still love MJ - who's legend grows year by year. :toast

agree with most of this. MJ IS better. But those that say he "shits" on Kobe or they are not in the same conversation, are short-sighted. It may be a short conversation, but Kobe is at least in the same class. Mj is valedictorian though, kobe in the top 5% of that class.

and if Kobe got to play a series guarded by hornacek, russell and Stockton he destroys them too. Maybe not to the same level as MJ but destroy never the less especially when the paint is anchored by the likes of Greg foster.

[Killakobe81]

Tex Winter :lmao


Dude is senile

are you serious? The Yoda of the triangle, knows more ball than this whole forum combined, myself included.

[mavs>spurs]

agree with most of this. MJ IS better. But those that say he "shits" on Kobe or they are not in the same conversation, are short-sighted. It may be a short conversation, but Kobe is at least in the same class. Mj is valedictorian though, kobe in the top 5% of that class.

and if Kobe got to play a series guarded by hornacek, russell and Stockton he destroys them too. Maybe not to the same level as MJ but destroy never the less especially when the paint is anchored by the likes of Greg foster.


yeah, because being defended by kerry kittles with Jason Collins as the anchor, aaron mckey with matt geiger as the anchor, and an old ass reggie miller/jalen rose with dale davis as the anchor is so much better! not to mention having shaq there to take the pressure off you. haha

actually now that i think about it, hornacek although undersized and russell are actually better perimeter defenders than any of those guys listed from the first 3 championships.

[lefty]

Coached both players. PJ's secret weapon and mastermind behind the triangle. HOFer.

He has cred. Neal with it. :downspin:
And he was younger and less senile in Chicago :lol


Or it's an ego thing; Tex is proud that young Kobe called him one day to seek advice.
Boosted his ego.....so now he slurps slurps Kobe

[Killakobe81]

yeah, because being defended by kerry kittles with Jason Collins as the anchor, aaron mckey with matt geiger as the anchor, and an old ass reggie miller/jalen rose with dale davis as the anchor is so much better! not to mention having shaq there to take the pressure off you. haha

Dont kid yourself. Kobe was guarded by Raja Bell and Mckie against Philly and Mutombo was anchoring the paint that year ... or was I imagining Shaq getting elbowed by Shaq in the Finals vs. Philly?

[mavs>spurs]

Dont kid yourself. Kobe was guarded by Raja Bell and Mckie against Philly and Mutombo was anchoring the paint that year ... or was I imagining Shaq getting elbowed by Shaq in the Finals vs. Philly?

Oh, you mean Bell's rookie season where he only played 5 games the entire year? :lmao fail and yes, mutumbo had his face so full of shaq elbow that he wasn't much of a factor on kobe, dude couldn't come over and leave shaq without getting powerbombed.

[mavs>spurs]

Bell was guarding kobe so hard in those 8 minutes per game off the bench in garbage time :lmao

[lefty]

Laker fans and their pathetic arguments :lmao

slurp slurp Kobe

[Killakobe81]

Bell was guarding kobe so hard in those 8 minutes per game off the bench in garbage time :lmao

Never said he just played heavy minutes BOTH those guys were good defenders. It's just like against Celts in 2008 Kobe was defended by Both allens and Pierce at times. I did not break down how many minutes they spent on him.

[mavs>spurs]

:lmao dude, bell was a rookie and not yet the defender he later became. and he barely, if ever, guarded kobe in his 8 minutes in garbage time while kobe was on the bench icing his knees. you're just being a faggot if you cite raja bell.

[Killakobe81]

:lmao dude, bell was a rookie and not yet the defender he later became. and he barely, if ever, guarded kobe in his 8 minutes in garbage time while kobe was on the bench icing his knees. you're just being a faggot if you cite raja bell.

That series was closer than many remember ...there was not a lot of garbage time. Game 1 went OT. Horry had to hit a clutch 3 to ice game 3 or 4 (IIRC).

Name calling and not knowing your shit will get you little credibilty on here, son. I could pull footage if you like ... But even if it was just 8 minutes for bell, Mckie was better defender than Hornacek. Bell was pobably not at his best, you are correct. But people dont become solid defenders over night.and that series is what sparked their "rivalry" (if you can call it that) which culminated with Bell mugging kobe and geting suspended in a playoff game. But whatever, YH you have no rep here so me arguing with you on ball is beneath me.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

:lol

Youre beneath Killa. Get pissed on, faggot.
:lol your beneath us all.

[Leetonidas]

lol narutoluva

[Stalin]

how would kobe play in the 80's and hold his own? there would be no jordan to copy

how would kobe>jordan? if kobe is just a shittier version of jordan himself, i'm sure mike would have a real hard time with such a poser


:lol hold his own against the pistons
:lol 40% in the finals
:lol can't take the pressure

kobe dick jockey: "b..b..but mj never faced anyone better than 6'-3" honkie like jeff hornacek"

all time mj defenders

Grant Hill - Height 6'8"
Sean Elliott - Height 6'8"
Robert Reid - Height 6'8"
Jerry Reynolds - Height 6'8"
Walt Williams - Height 6'8"
Malik Sealy - Height 6'8"
Shawn Marion - Height 6'7"
Bruce Bowen - Height 6'7"
Lionel Simmons - Height 6'7"
Calbert Cheaney - Height 6'7"
Penny Hardaway - Height 6'7"
Bryon Russell - Height 6'7"
Clyde Drexler - Height 6'7"
Reggie Miller - Height 6'7"
Purvis Short - Height 6'7"
Tony Campbell - Height 6'7"
Dale Ellis - Height 6'7"
Steve Smith - Height 6'7"
Reggie Theus - Height 6'7"
Glen Rice - Height 6'7"
Alex English - Height 6'7"
Reggie Williams - Height 6'7"
Dominique Wilkins - Height 6'7"
Nick Anderson - Height 6'6"
Gerald Wilkins - Height 6'6"
Rolando Blackman - Height 6'6"
Stacey Augmon - Height 6'6"
Doug Christie - Height 6'6"
Craig Ehlo - Height 6'6''
Ron Harper - Height 6'6"
Chris Mullin - Height 6'6"
Jim Jackson - Height 6'6"
Kobe Bryant - Height 6'6"
Ron Artest - Height 6'6"
Paul Pierce - Height 6'6"
Michael Ray Richardson - Height 6'5"
Mario Ellie - Height 6'5"
Mitch Richmond - Height 6'5"
Michael Cooper - Height 6'5"
Kendall Gill - Height 6'5"
Kerry Kittles - Height 6'5"
Raja Bell - Height 6'5"
Mike Woodson - Height 6'5"
Gary Payton - Height 6'4"
Lester Conner - Height 6'4"
Dennis Johnson - Height 6'4"
Jeff Malone - Height 6'4"
Joe Dumars - Height 6'3"
John Starks - Height 6'3"
Jeff Hornacek - Height 6'3"