Herman Cain's Tax Proposal Inspired by SimCity

[hater]

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/simcitydefault-1.gif

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/375741/thumbs/r-HERMAN-CAIN-SIM-CITY-TAX-PLAN-large570.jpg

Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan: Inspired by 'SimCity'

http://theweek.com/article/index/220346/herman-cains-9-9-9-plan-inspired-by-simcity

The tantalizing question: Did Herman Cain lift his 9-9-9 tax plan from the computer game SimCity 4? Former Godfather's Pizza CEO Herman Cain "has jumped to the top of Republican polls thanks to a bold tax scheme called the '9-9-9 Plan,'" says Jared Newman in TIME. "But it'd be even bolder if SimCity hadn't come up with the idea eight years ago."


ip Katsarelis, a senior producer for Maxis, the company that created the SimCity series, was excited that politicians may be looking to video games for ideas.

"We encourage politicians to continue to look to innovative games like SimCity for inspiration for social and economic change," said Katsarelis. "While we at Maxis and Electronic Arts do not endorse any political candidates or their platforms, it's interesting to see GOP candidate Herman Cain propose a simplified tax system like one we designed for the video game SimCity 4."

How well did the 9-9-9 plan work in SimCity?
"Running SimCity 4 on its default tax setting was a disaster waiting to happen," says Bridgette P. LaVictoire in Lez Get Real. Unless you used a cheat code, "you ran out of money pretty fast, in fact, and had to go deep into debt." But even if it had worked, there's a pretty huge difference between running a fake city and the most powerful nation on earth. Also, notes TIME's Newman, "Sim City 4 features meteors, UFOs, and robot attacks, which would probably mess up most attempts at realistic modeling."

:lmao

[coyotes_geek]

So are people supposed to be bothered by this? If it's a good idea, WGAF where it came from? Frankly I think a loophole free, simplified tax structure simple enough to put in to a video game would do wonders for this country.

[hater]

agree.

actually I like Cain, he's funny. And getting ideas from video games puts him higher on my list.
he's my #3 option.

1. Obama
2. Romney
3. Cain

win - win - win

[boutons_deux]

9-9-9 is horribly regressive taxation, but what else is expected from a wealthy right-wing ideologue with no political experience?

[Drachen]

I agree with both coyotes geek and b-d.

[101A]

9-9-9 is horribly regressive taxation, but what else is expected from a wealthy right-wing ideologue with no political experience?


Person 1 makes $50,000 working as a carpenter. Spends every dime.

He pays: $4,500 in income tax
He pays: $4,500 is sales tax

Total tax liability = $9,000

Business owner who has a salary of $250,000 - and whose company earned a profit of $80,000. Spent all but $20,000 of his earnings

He pays: $22,500 in income tax
He pays: $20,700 is sales tax
He pays: $7,200 in corporate tax

Total tax liability: $50,400

I don't understand why this is regressive.

[Winehole23]

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/inside-the-cain-tax-plan/

[clambake]

Business owner who has a salary of $250,000 - and whose company earned a profit of $80,000. Spent all but $20,000 of his earnings

can you elaborate?

[101A]

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/inside-the-cain-tax-plan/

I didn't say is wasn't less regressive than we currently have, I just was wondering what B's definition of "regressive" was.

Thanks for the link, btw, I, in theory, am kind of supportive of 9-9-9, but if that article is accurate, the actual details are not what I would assume. Cain taxes payroll as business profit, but NOT purchases with other companies? Would hurt me a great deal; mine is a service industry, 80% of expenses ARE payroll. Also, not taxing capital gains as income is ridiculous.

[101A]

can you elaborate?


Not anymore; the business tax would actually be a lot higher bases on what WH posted; actual profit would be irrelevant; the taxes would be much closer to 9% of the businesses total revenue (say $2,000,000) than just on the $80K. And, as the article indicates, large companies would be much more adept and capable of exploiting the gaping loopholes (not taxing payments to other businesses, and no tax on international expenses) than would small ones.

[clambake]

the big boys would remain untouchable.

[clambake]

still, plenty of ways to mask actual income.

[coyotes_geek]

JMO, but I think if you excluded things like food and utilities from the 9% sales tax and only applied the 9% income tax to income over the poverty line you'd go a long ways towards easing concerns over the system being regressive.

[hater]

exactly. The ubber rich would just buy their shit overseas tax free.

[Winehole23]

I didn't say is wasn't less regressive than we currently have, I just was wondering what B's definition of "regressive" was.

Thanks for the link, btw, I, in theory, am kind of supportive of 9-9-9, but if that article is accurate, the actual details are not what I would assume. Cain taxes payroll as business profit, but NOT purchases with other companies? Would hurt me a great deal; mine is a service industry, 80% of expenses ARE payroll. Also, not taxing capital gains as income is ridiculous.Problem is, the 1,000 word blurb on Herman Cain's campaign website is the plan. Presumably it will get fleshed out more fully if Cain continues to shine.

[clambake]

exactly. The ubber rich would just buy their shit overseas tax free.

wut?

[Agloco]

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/inside-the-cain-tax-plan/


But the experience of the George W. Bush administration was that cuts in tax rates on the wealthy and on capital gains had no effect whatsoever on growth, according to the Congressional Research Service.

[hater]

http://lparchive.org/SimCity-3000/Update%2032/21-2916.gif

[Agloco]

http://lparchive.org/SimCity-3000/Update%2032/21-2916.gif

<dismiss petitioner>

With a first class ticket to Butsville.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Person 1 makes $50,000 working as a carpenter. Spends every dime.

He pays: $4,500 in income tax
He pays: $4,500 is sales tax

Total tax liability = $9,000

Business owner who has a salary of $250,000 - and whose company earned a profit of $80,000. Spent all but $20,000 of his earnings

He pays: $22,500 in income tax
He pays: $20,700 is sales tax
He pays: $7,200 in corporate tax

Total tax liability: $50,400

I don't understand why this is regressive.
Quite frankly, these numbers would be too low. Good luck paying off this country's debt with this structure.

[hater]

Quite frankly, these numbers would be too low. Good luck paying off this country's debt with this structure.

you can always use a cheat code to get $10,000,000 in the treasury

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

^:lmao

[101A]

Quite frankly, these numbers would be too low. Good luck paying off this country's debt with this structure.

The illustration was not intended to address that issue, and made no comment on it one way or the other.

[Drachen]

Person 1 makes $50,000 working as a carpenter. Spends every dime.

He pays: $4,500 in income tax
He pays: $4,500 is sales tax

Total tax liability = $9,000

Business owner who has a salary of $250,000 - and whose company earned a profit of $80,000. Spent all but $20,000 of his earnings

He pays: $22,500 in income tax
He pays: $20,700 is sales tax
He pays: $7,200 in corporate tax

Total tax liability: $50,400

I don't understand why this is regressive.

The richer you are, the lower your effective tax rate is.

Person A: 9000/50000 = .18
Person B (scenario A) = 50,400/330,000 = .152727
Person B (scenario B) = 43,200/250,000 = .1728
Person C = 1,350,000/10,000,000 = .135

Scenario A is including both the corporate taxes as well as the earnings
Scenario B is excluding the above.
Person C is someone who makes 10M and spends 5M.

[ElNono]

Not to mention that the proposal, from what I read, would make dividends tax-free.

[Drachen]

Not to mention that the proposal, from what I read, would make dividends tax-free.

Well that really helps me! I make 35k (just took a 12% paycut right before my son was born - YAY!) and last year I earned $11 in dividend income. That probably stacks up pretty well against those making 10 times (or more) what I make.

edit: corrected spelling (no that is not why I took a paycut). :lol

[ElNono]

Well that really helps me! I make 35k (just took a 12% paycut right before my son was born - YAY!) and last year I earned $11 in dividend income. That probably stacks up pretty well against those making 10 times (or more) what I make.

edit: corrected spelling (no that is not why I took a paycut). :lol

:lol

[101A]

The richer you are, the lower your effective tax rate is.

Person A: 9000/50000 = .18
Person B (scenario A) = 50,400/330,000 = .152727
Person B (scenario B) = 43,200/250,000 = .1728
Person C = 1,350,000/10,000,000 = .135

Scenario A is including both the corporate taxes as well as the earnings
Scenario B is excluding the above.
Person C is someone who makes 10M and spends 5M.

I found you're problem.

You don't understand that:

Profit != Income

Also, as the link Winehole provided pointed out, the business tax isn't really taxing profit at all; it's taxing much more than that. It would be impossible to predict how much that would be.

[Drachen]

I found you're problem.

You don't understand that:

Profit != Income

Also, as the link Winehole provided pointed out, the business tax isn't really taxing profit at all; it's taxing much more than that. It would be impossible to predict how much that would be.

Sorry, I will have to go back and read WH's link. As far as the 80k goes, I assumed you were talking NI not gross profit. My mistake.

In order to better assess that situation, we would need to know the effect on Retained Earnings, I guess. Either way, I guess it is moot since you said that link states it differently.

[Findog]

How can you beat such a plan? Nine toppings and nine breadsticks for nine dollars is a steal.

[Drachen]

OK, just read the link. Even worse than I thought.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The illustration was not intended to address that issue, and made no comment on it one way or the other.
:lol as long as you're admitting Uncle Tom's tax policy won't do jack shit to address the national debt.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

And yeah making dividend/capital gains income tax free is retarded.


EDIT: Holy shit, I missed the part about not taxing any income earned overseas. What a great idea! That's sure to bring all those manufacturing jobs back home and certainly won't encourage corporations to outsource at all!

[101A]

:lol as long as you're admitting Uncle Tom's tax policy won't do jack shit to address the national debt.

Did I ever suggest it would?

Although don't underestimate the ability of a VAT (which is the second "9") to raise lots of money. From a strictly income tax perspective, it obviously falls short of satisfying our country's ravenous appetite, much less paying for past excesses.

I will remember, however, that you are a debt hawk.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

What the fuck is a "debt hawk" :lmao, someone who is a little concerned about America's fourteen trillion dollar deficit?

His tax rules are built on the retarded belief that lowering taxes on the rich and the corporations leads to a stimulated economy, a belief that's never been vindicated.

[Drachen]

And yeah making dividend/capital gains income tax free is retarded.

I honestly think that this will stifle innovation. This incentivizes the shifting company funds from R&D (for example) to sending dividend checks to their shareholders. Very short sighted I would think.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I honestly think that this will stifle innovation. This incentivizes the shifting company funds from R&D (for example) to sending dividend checks to their shareholders. Very short sighted I would think.
I couldn't agree more, cutting dividend/capital gains taxes does anything but create jobs and stimulate the economy like the free market retards claim. If people like Warren Buffet can use the billions they have to generate dividend income every year while barely getting taxed for it, what incentive do they have to use capital in a way that creates jobs? There's more risk and less reward for them to use capital on expanding their business and entering new markets when the alternative is barely taxed dividend income.

[Drachen]

I couldn't agree more, cutting dividend/capital gains taxes does anything but create jobs and stimulate the economy like the free market retards claim. If people like Warren Buffet can use the billions they have to generate dividend income every year while barely getting taxed for it, what incentive do they have to use capital in a way that creates jobs? There's more risk and less reward.

Pretty much. A company is getting a guaranteed (risk-free) +9% return on every dollar that they send out as a dividend. What projects can even approach matching that kind of return?

[boutons_deux]

999 Plan: A 'distributional nightmare'


For a $50K household, married couple, two kids, all income from earnings and standard deductions, the current tax burden is $8.3K. Under 9-9-9, that would grow to $13.5K, an increase of over $5,000 (hat tip: CCH, BS). The WaPo fact checker came to a similar conclusion. E Klein too.

(I expect that any minute now the Tax Policy Center will release a slew of data supporting these points with their much more detailed tax model.)

But Lowrie wouldn’t accept that conclusion. In fact, he asserted that their federal tax would be lower because they’d move from a 15% payroll tax to a 9% income tax. This, as I said on air, is “patently wrong.”

First of all, assuming they plan to exist, they’ll need to consume stuff, and thus they’ll also face the 9% sales tax. That already makes their tax rate 18%, higher than the 15%.


http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/On-the-Economy/2011/1014/999-Plan-A-distributional-nightmare?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+feeds%2Fcsm+%28Christian+Scie nce+Monitor+%7C+All+Stories%29

[Th'Pusher]

I wish the CBO would score the damn thing so we can all see how fucking retarded Cain is. The guy is not even a legitimate candidate - he's a moron.

[Yonivore]

If people like Warren Buffet can use the billions they have to generate dividend income every year while barely getting taxed for it, what incentive do they have to use capital in a way that creates jobs?
HOW MUCH IS BUFFETT’S BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY BACK-TAX BILL EXACTLY? ABOUT $1 BILLION (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/how-much-is-buffetts-berkshire-hathaway-back-tax-bill-exactly-about-1-billion/)

Perhaps he's using the back taxes his company owes.

[Wild Cobra]

9-9-9 is horribly regressive taxation, but what else is expected from a wealthy right-wing ideologue with no political experience?
Maybe we need some regression in the tax code. I find it appalling that so many people will vote for what is best for them, and not consider everyone else. Because that is human nature, what happens when those who don't pay federal income tax exceeds 50%? Do they vote to tax everyone above them 50% and the rich 75% or higher, so they can get more of "other people's money?"

[Wild Cobra]

Person 1 makes $50,000 working as a carpenter. Spends every dime.

He pays: $4,500 in income tax
He pays: $4,500 is sales tax

Total tax liability = $9,000

Business owner who has a salary of $250,000 - and whose company earned a profit of $80,000. Spent all but $20,000 of his earnings

He pays: $22,500 in income tax
He pays: $20,700 is sales tax
He pays: $7,200 in corporate tax

Total tax liability: $50,400

I don't understand why this is regressive.
I would disagree with those calculations. Maybe someone else pointed it out. After the 9% income tax, there would be $41k left over. Not all purchases will be taxable, and even is all were, it is only $3,690 in sales tax for a total of $8,690.

I haven't seen the details of Cains idea. Is there no standard deduction or exemption? Aren't necessities and rent not taxed?

[Wild Cobra]

Problem is, the 1,000 word blurb on Herman Cain's campaign website is the plan. Presumably it will get fleshed out more fully if Cain continues to shine.
I just started looking at it. Like any plan, it will still go through revisions. I can see it excluding necessities from the sales tax like toilet paper, cereal, milk, etc. Even if not his original intent, such a push will be made, and at least some basic changes like that would have to happen before passing in congress.

[Wild Cobra]

Pretty much. A company is getting a guaranteed (risk-free) +9% return on every dollar that they send out as a dividend. What projects can even approach matching that kind of return?
Stock holders will ask for higher dividends, and gladly pay the 17.19% tax (income and sales combined.)

[Drachen]

Stock holders will ask for higher dividends, and gladly pay the 17.19% tax (income and sales combined.)

why?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Maybe we need some regression in the tax code. I find it appalling that so many people will vote for what is best for them, and not consider everyone else. Because that is human nature, what happens when those who don't pay federal income tax exceeds 50%? Do they vote to tax everyone above them 50% and the rich 75% or higher, so they can get more of "other people's money?"

Yeah you are so selfless.....

Supporting your corporate overlords just makes you stupid no matter how benevolent you try and paint it. I also am sure that you mix it with some judeochristian slave morality nonsense.

You are such a putz.

[Wild Cobra]

why?
The corporate tax is simpler and dividend payouts are a corporate deduction. No longer a double taxation.

[Wild Cobra]

Yeah you are so selfless.....

Supporting your corporate overlords just makes you stupid no matter how benevolent you try and paint it. I also am sure that you mix it with some judeochristian slave morality nonsense.

You are such a putz.
First of all, you are the putz.

If we remove these "tax credits" corporations and people get, then the tax rates can be reduced. We won't have corporations like GE making a healthy profit, and getting tax dollars both. Not all corporations are "evil" like you wish to imply, but are doing what is best for the shareholders almost anytime they make a decision. That includes moving manufacturing to other counties to avoid the 35% taxation and regulations.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

First of all, you are the putz.

If we remove these "tax credits" corporations and people get, then the tax rates can be reduced. We won't have corporations like GE making a healthy profit, and getting tax dollars both. Not all corporations are "evil" like you wish to imply, but are doing what is best for the shareholders almost anytime they make a decision. That includes moving manufacturing to other counties to avoid the 35% taxation and regulations.

I never said they all were. Try again, putz. Trying to do the best for their shareholders..... yeah thats why dividend ratios have plummeted over the last 30 years. You are such a tool in every sense of the word.

[Drachen]

The corporate tax is simpler and dividend payouts are a corporate deduction. No longer a double taxation.

Right so instead of spending money on crazy stuff like projects and innovation they can just party it out in dividends. Berkshire, Microsoft, google, and apple they would have long ago distributed their war chest.

[Wild Cobra]

Right so instead of spending money on crazy stuff like projects and innovation they can just party it out in dividends. Berkshire, Microsoft, google, and apple they would have long ago distributed their war chest.
It happens anyway. Do you think people buy stock just so they say they did? No... Some people buy stocks and live off the quarterly dividends. It can make for a nice addition for retirement.

The Dow lost what from it's peak? Went from what, about 14,400 to 11,600, over ten or so years? Lets say a 20% loss. However, if I had a $70 stock that took a 20% loss over 10 years, but paid $1 in dividends per quarter, that's $40 in gain from that stock that is now $56. It's now a $96 value from $70 and still effectively gained 37+%.

I may be wrong, but I believe most stocks used in the DOW indicator pay decent dividends.

[clambake]

It happens anyway. Do you think people buy stock just so they say they did? No... Some people buy stocks and live off the quarterly dividends.
you need to pay attention to this.

I never said they all were. Try again, putz. Trying to do the best for their shareholders..... yeah thats why dividend ratios have plummeted over the last 30 years. You are such a tool in every sense of the word.

the absolute truth.

[Wild Cobra]

Dividend ratios also change with law and corporate health. To be taxed less, does make it more appealing for the voting shareholders to get more.

[clambake]

Dividend ratios also change with law and corporate health. To be taxed less, does make it more appealing for the voting shareholders to get more.

clearly, you do not have much, if any, invested.

[ElNono]

Maybe we need some regression in the tax code. I find it appalling that so many people will vote for what is best for them, and not consider everyone else. Because that is human nature, what happens when those who don't pay federal income tax exceeds 50%? Do they vote to tax everyone above them 50% and the rich 75% or higher, so they can get more of "other people's money?"

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/50smh.gif

[Agloco]

I would disagree with those calculations. Maybe someone else pointed it out. After the 9% income tax, there would be $41k left over. Not all purchases will be taxable, and even is all were, it is only $3,690 in sales tax for a total of $8,690.

I haven't seen the details of Cains idea. Is there no standard deduction or exemption? Aren't necessities and rent not taxed?

No exemptions or standard deductions according to WH's link.

That would negate any benefit realized by axing the payroll tax.

[Wild Cobra]

clearly, you do not have much, if any, invested.
I have tracked my dividends in the past from my 401k funds. I have no individual stocks, but considered investing in them at times. My mutual funds get reinvested into the funds, so even when the fund values decrease, the gross value doesn't decrease as much. Over the long term, it always increases. There was a time I followed various stocks. Even when we discussed Exxon profits, I noted their dividends. Exxon pays quarterly dividends in Feb, May, Aug, and Nov. In 2000, they were paying $0.22/quarter. In Jul '01, they had a split, and payed $0.23/quarter after that. Over the months, it increased to $0.25, $0.27. $0.29.... $0.44, and is now at $0.47/quarter. That's almost $2/years per share for a stock now at $78.11. Why do you think people keep with volatile stocks unless they have reasons to stay? I personally wish dividends would be higher and short term capital gains taxes excessive to help eliminate day traders.

Now if you look at a stock like Teekay Tankers (TNK), you see nice payoffs in dividends. Their latest close was $4.89, and they pay dividends of about 20% annually:

Aug 17, 2011 0.21 Dividend
May 18, 2011 0.25 Dividend
Mar 4, 2011 0.22 Dividend
Nov 12, 2010 0.31 Dividend
Aug 18, 2010 0.34 Dividend
May 19, 2010 0.37 Dividend
Mar 4, 2010 0.26 Dividend

[Wild Cobra]

No exemptions or standard deductions according to WH's link.

That would negate any benefit realized by axing the payroll tax.
True.

If you ask me, it's still a good idea. Not all will, but since the employer is no longer paying payroll taxes, then employees can negotiate for larger incomes as well, to cover the change from 7.45% to 9%..

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Lower taxes on the employer has never led to better employee wages. All it does is put more money in the employer's pocket.

[ElNono]

since the employer is no longer paying payroll taxes, then employees can negotiate for larger incomes as well

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Yonivore]

Lower taxes on the employer has never led to better employee wages. All it does is put more money in the employer's pocket.
Not in a market where you're competing for quality employees. And, if you're in a market where you're competing for employees, damn right you pocket the money.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I have tracked my dividends in the past from my 401k funds. I have no individual stocks, but considered investing in them at times.

You should have just left it there and not gone to Google.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not in a market where you're competing for quality employees. And, if you're in a market where you're competing for employees, damn right you pocket the money.

Supply side economics? Really?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Not in a market where you're competing for quality employees. And, if you're in a market where you're competing for employees, damn right you pocket the money.
You're going to pay more for quality employees regardless. The amount of taxes paid doesn't change that.

[Yonivore]

You're going to pay more for quality employees regardless. The amount of taxes paid doesn't change that.
That's not true. The amount of taxes directly affects what you pay all employees, quality or not.

Removing that tax will allow competing employers more flexibility in attracting quality employees. The employer that is greedy and wants to pocket his tax savings will lose quality employees to the employer that moves that savings into salaries and benefits.

[Wild Cobra]

You're going to pay more for quality employees regardless. The amount of taxes paid doesn't change that.
I cannot speak for yoni, but I think he meant to say:

Not in a market where you're competing for quality employees. And, if you're not in a market where you're competing for employees, damn right you pocket the money.

[Wild Cobra]

That's not true. The amount of taxes directly affects what you pay all employees, quality or not.

Removing that tax will allow competing employers more flexibility in attracting quality employees. The employer that is greedy and wants to pocket his tax savings will lose quality employees to the employer that moves that savings into salaries and benefits.
You forget that liberals think that such merit ideas don't exist, and believe all jobs need to be union, so the lowest common denominator employee gets equal treatment.

[ElNono]

You forget that liberals think that such merit ideas don't exist, and believe all jobs need to be union, so the lowest common denominator employee gets equal treatment.

Liberals think that? Or Fox News told you that's what liberals think?

[Wild Cobra]

Liberals think that? Or Fox News told you that's what liberals think?
Have you ever worked with union libtards?

I speak from experience of association.

[ElNono]

Have you ever worked with union libtards?

I speak from experience of association.

So your anecdote has to be taken as the general rule... I should've known.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

That's not true. The amount of taxes directly affects what you pay all employees, quality or not.
Prove it.

[Yonivore]

Prove it.
Remove the taxes.

[Wild Cobra]

So your anecdote has to be taken as the general rule... I should've known.
I don't care if you believe me or not. I have worked four different union jobs under four different unions in my lifetime. Sorry I didn't record 24/7 my life so I could direct you to video or audio.

[ElNono]

I don't care if you believe me or not. I have worked four different union jobs under four different unions in my lifetime. Sorry I didn't record 24/7 my life so I could direct you to video or audio.

Oh, I believe you. I also believe that your anecdote is just that, an anecdote.

12% of total labor force is unionized. What your anecdote proves is that you're talking about a minority.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Liberals think that? Or Fox News told you that's what liberals think?

He has to dumb it down to simplicity if he is to grasp it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't care if you believe me or not. I have worked four different union jobs under four different unions in my lifetime. Sorry I didn't record 24/7 my life so I could direct you to video or audio.

Thats not the argument you dimwit. Try again.

Here's a hint: he is not calling you a liar.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Remove the taxes.
So you have no existing evidence that lowering taxes for the employer = higher wages for the employee?

[DMX7]

There's no point in trying to teach WC anything. What he isn't told by Fox News, he just dreams up. It's why he's a wildly successful repairman.

[ElNono]

So you have no existing evidence that lowering taxes for the employer = higher wages for the employee?

Cain said so... 999!!!

[Wild Cobra]

There's no point in trying to teach WC anything. What he isn't told by Fox News, he just dreams up. It's why he's a wildly successful repairman.
Funny how you believe that. Did you know I had my TV service disconnected? I stopped watching TV long ago, and finally decided to save the money.

Do you always make such ignorant assumptions?

[DMX7]

Then you just dream it all up.

[ElNono]

He just watches the YouTube's now

[Wild Cobra]

Then you just dream it all up.
Then it's original, and I'm not being told what to say, right?

[admiralsnackbar]

Then it's original, and I'm not being told what to say, right?

So you don't listen to the radio? You just happen to spit out the horseshit du jour by dint of your political insight? Most impressive! (Although you would think a person of such unflinching instincts would be able to produce a citation now and then... but who's counting?)

(Besides the people who've read you at least once a week for years.)

[Wild Cobra]

So you don't listen to the radio? You just happen to spit out the horseshit du jour by dint of your political insight? Most impressive! (Although you would thing a person of such unflinching instincts would be able to produce a citation now and then... but who's counting?)

(Besides the people who've read you at least once a week for years.)

LOL...

I've been listening to the lunatics of KPOJ (http://www.620kpoj.com/main.html) for some time now. I didn't know they were telling me how to think like a conservative. Please explain.

[ElNono]

So do tell where you get your information from...

[admiralsnackbar]

LOL...

I've been listening to the lunatics of KPOJ (http://www.620kpoj.com/main.html) for some time now. I didn't know they were telling me how to think like a conservative. Please explain.

Please explain how such an independent mind as your own can be expected to spew the same horseshit that the board "conservatives" if you aren't exposed to their horseshit.

Q:Are you just a "conservative" Delphi?

A: No.

[Wild Cobra]

Please explain how such an independent mind as your own can be expected to spew the same horseshit that the board "conservatives" if you aren't exposed to their horseshit.

Q:Are you just a "conservative" Delphi?

A: No.
I have worked and payed taxes since the 70's. I have met several people over the years. I have had a varied income level as well. I am libertarian tempered with conservatism. I'm sorry that you are too closed minded to think that conservatives are told how to think. I will assume you are in you early 20's. Maybe once you gain some more wisdom in life, you will stop accusing me of what you are guilty of. The media tells you we conservatives are told what to think by the media we listen to. I suggest you look in the mirror. Who in your media is telling you to believe that?

[admiralsnackbar]

I have worked and payed taxes since the 70's. I have met several people over the years. I have had a varied income level as well. I am libertarian tempered with conservatism. I'm sorry that you are too closed minded to think that conservatives are told how to think. I will assume you are in you early 20's. Maybe once you gain some more wisdom in life, you will stop accusing me of what you are guilty of. The media tells you we conservatives are told what to think by the media we listen to. I suggest you look in the mirror. Who in your media is telling you to believe that?

You align yourself with a side regardless of whether it fucks up or not -- that's your problem. You don't care that the present face of conservatism or libertarianism is a bald-faced punchline. You buy in without any semblance of critical thought, and the proof is in your lazy all-opinion/no-fact "rebuttals."

I'm considerably older than your brilliant deduction (by a good 20+ years), and I call your bullshit. Prove me wrong, oh condescending wise one.

PS why does "the media"need to tell me you ape whatever is being pimped by "the media" you don't listen to? Why did you care about the muslim community center a year ago, but don't any longer? Did you realize it was an unAmerican tack? I doubt it.

[Wild Cobra]

You align yourself with a side regardless of whether it fucks up or not -- that's your problem.
I see. I admit to voting for the lesser of two evils, and admit that I hate most democrat politicians and that makes me in alignment with republicans?

I think not.

You don't care that the present face of conservatism or libertarianism is a bald-faced punchline.

Maybe in communist circles you travel in. Not the circles I travel in.


You buy in without any semblance of critical thought, and the proof is in your lazy all-opinion/no-fact "rebuttals."

Believe as you wish. I simply don't care, and if I wasted my time attempting to link everything i said... Well, there simply isn't enough time.


I'm considerably older than your brilliant deduction (by a good 20+ years), and I call your bullshit.
Then I would say you haven't learned life's lessons very well. Are you the progeny of rich parents? Entitled?

Prove me wrong, oh condescending wise one.

Yes, I am an arrogant asshole, but I have earned it.

Oh, Gee!!... There's another quote for your signature!

[ElNono]

I don't think all conservatives are told how to think. My associate in my business is as conservative as they come. And we can talk. There's plenty of conservatives here, whom I might agree or not, but they also call things as they see it (101A, Cowboy).

The difference between those and the actual cheerleaders in here should be pretty obvious.

[Cry Havoc]

http://www.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sarah_palin.jpg

The GOP is full of good honest hard-working folk!

http://topnews.in/usa/files/michele-bachmann.jpg

"My party is awesome! There's nothing wrong with it at all!"

[boutons_deux]

Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 Plan Is Very Regressive

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/cain-plan.jpg

a nice tax cut for the $200k-$500k crowd and a really big tax cut for people who earn more than that, plus mid-sized tax hikes for everyone else.

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/10/18/347258/herman-cains-9-9-9-plan-is-very-regressive/

999 Plan: Herman Cain's Proposal Would Raise Taxes On 84 Percent, Study Shows

Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan would raise taxes on 84 percent of U.S. households, according to an independent analysis released Tuesday, contradicting claims by the Republican presidential candidate that most Americans would see a tax cut.

The Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, says low- and middle-income families would be hit hardest, with households making between $10,000 and $20,000 seeing their taxes increase by nearly 950 percent.

"You're talking a $2,700 tax increase for people with incomes between $10,000 and $20,000,"

Among those in the middle, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 would see their taxes increase by an average of $4,400, the report said. Those making between $50,000 and $75,000 would see their annual tax bill go up by an average of $4,326.

"It's very, very regressive compared to the current system, and that's largely because we're exempting capital gains, and we're taxing your spending with the sales tax," Williams said. "People at the top end don't spend all their money and they get a lot of capital gains, so they are doing pretty well here."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/18/999-plan-herman-cain_n_1018462.html

[MannyIsGod]

Oh well shit - I can bet this becomes law now and he wins. Its in the bag.

[Th'Pusher]

Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 Plan Is Very Regressive

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/cain-plan.jpg



These graphs don't bother me. In fact, they inspire me to be in the $1M crowd.