Peter Holt leading the charge for an amnesty clause (likely to cut RJ)

[Uriel]

ESPN.com reports that “significant cap relief (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7147880/nba-most-likely-amnesty-candidates)” is expected this year, according to sources close to the negotiations. Early reports are that teams will receive cap relief and tax relief: 75 percent of a player’s contract value will not count against the salary cap when it is shed via amnesty.


ESPN also reported Friday (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/32935/more-flexible-amnesty-clause-on-way) that San Antonio Spurs majority owner Peter Holt has been at the forefront of a successful push to allow teams to have at least two years to decide whether or not to release one player via amnesty, as opposed to the 2005 version that gave clubs two weeks in August to use or lose the amnesty option forever.


Read more: http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/10/31/is-rj-fated-to-be-a-casualty-of-the-amnesty-clause/

[slick'81]

why wait get rj the fck outta here his salary is sickening

[Halberto]

It would probably appeal to more owners by allowing two years to decide.

[Bruno]

The 2 years waiting period wouldn't really be that useful to Spurs. Spurs will only be in the luxury tax territory this year so using it after it would greatly reduce the interest of using this clause.

Holt might fight for this 2 years period but I don't think it's for him, it's for other small market owners.

[cheguevara]

get the fuck out asshole

[Kori Ellis]

The 2 years waiting period wouldn't really be that useful to Spurs. Spurs will only be in the luxury tax territory this year so using it after it would greatly reduce the interest of using this clause.

Holt might fight for this 2 years period but I don't think it's for him, it's for other small market owners.

Yeah, I don't get why Holt is the one leading the charge about the 2-year-period. Why would he want to wait? He should want to cut RJ as soon as he can.

[spurs10]

Yeah, I don't get why Holt is the one leading the charge about the 2-year-period. Why would he want to wait? He should want to cut RJ as soon as he can.
I've been wondering if they got any bites in doing a trade with RJ before the lockout began. Is there anywhere he'd make a better fit? His 3 pt% was improving....

[ElNono]

Yeah, I don't get why Holt is the one leading the charge about the 2-year-period. Why would he want to wait? He should want to cut RJ as soon as he can.

Maybe he's going to save it to dump Parker's contract :stirpot:

[Kori Ellis]

Maybe he's going to save it to dump Parker's contract :stirpot:

I thought about that too. :lol

[Seventyniner]

The Thunder probably benefit the most from being able to save it. Is Holt doing Presti a solid?

[stephen jackson]

a trade that worked on the espn thing was
rip hamilton & wilcox for rj & bonner
get it done.

[Hooks]

I'm confused, so they WOULDN'T be able to release RJ this year even though they have had him for over 2 years? Are you guys sure about that?

[PDXSpursFan]

The 2 year is perfect for the Blazers. They need to see what Roy has left and make a decision.

[Dex]

I'm confused, so they WOULDN'T be able to release RJ this year even though they have had him for over 2 years? Are you guys sure about that?

It means that each team would get one amnesty clause to use on a player (be it an existing contract, or one to be signed) over the next two years, and they could use it at any time during that timeframe.

With the last amnesty clause, teams had to decide to use it within the first two weeks, or lose it altogether.

[ploto]

I just assume that the Spurs are not ready to admit total RJ failure just yet. They probably still want to see if they can dump him somehow so as not to pay him a bunch simply to go away.

[Dex]

I just assume that the Spurs are not ready to admit total RJ failure just yet. They probably still want to see if they can dump him somehow so as not to pay him a bunch simply to go away.

Maybe Holt will give Jefferson and Bonner a one-year play-off to see who sucks more and gets amnestied first.

/wishfulthinking

Too bad we don't have two clauses.

[SenorSpur]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why they ever resigned RJ last offseason, in the place. The Spurs wouldn't be in this pickle at all had they simply allowed RJ to walk. Especially after he did them a favor by unexpectedly opting out of that ridiculous 15mil-per year contract he had.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why they ever resigned RJ last offseason, in the place. The Spurs wouldn't be in this pickle at all had they simply allowed RJ to walk. Especially after he did them a favor by unexpectedly opting out of that ridiculous 15mil-per year contract he had.

Because :
1. He only opted out because of the offer he was going to receive, don't kid yourself he, or the Spurs for that matter, were not aware what was going on
2. The Spurs would have been deeply in lux tax territory had he not opted out
3. There wasn't any replacement available for the little money the Spurs were left to play with, and each one's cost would have been doubled because of the luxury tax
4. The Spurs may not have been able to pay Splitter, being deep into lux tax

[Giuseppe]

I just assume that the Spurs are not ready to admit total RJ failure just yet. They probably still want to see if they can dump him somehow so as not to pay him a bunch simply to go away.

& have to be summarily humiliated. Dick is a kept secret outside these Boards.

:lol

[Seventyniner]

If the Spurs can keep RJ and stay out of the tax, I don't think they amnesty him. He fills a huge positional need.

If amnesty-ing Bonner gets the Spurs under the tax, I want them to do it and make a hard push for Rashard Lewis. /pipedream

Actually, the Spurs could amnesty RJ after all if someone like Mike Miller, Marvin Williams, or Josh Childress agrees to play for a small contract. They would need the ink to dry first, though.

Edit: if amnesty-ing RJ is the only way to get under the tax (obv not using it on any of the big 3), I think he's gone.

[baseline bum]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why they ever resigned RJ last offseason, in the place. The Spurs wouldn't be in this pickle at all had they simply allowed RJ to walk. Especially after he did them a favor by unexpectedly opting out of that ridiculous 15mil-per year contract he had.

That was no favor; him opting out dicked the Spurs out of what would be one of the best trading pieces in the league (provided there is actually a season).

[ChuckD]

If amnesty-ing Bonner gets the Spurs under the tax, I want them to do it and make a hard push for Rashard Lewis. /pipedream



Rashard Lewis is a soft ass bitch. He's Bonner, with a really, really good tan. If the Spurs ever signed him, I'd be totally done with them.

[Hooks]

If the Spurs can keep RJ and stay out of the tax, I don't think they amnesty him. He fills a huge positional need.



Even though Leonard hasn't played a single minute of pro ball I'm CONVINCED he's already better than RJ. I wouldn't be surprised if Leonard starts next year. Rj was pretty damn bad last year, I'm sure Leonard can replicate his offense while being a MUCH better defender/rebounder/passer than him. The Spurs have already said they want to get back to a defensive force and with RJ they can't do that. We even heard rumors of trading TP with RJ, a young PG that has won 'ships with our team and is also one of the best PG's in the NBA.

[TDMVPDPOY]

spurs will be big players in FA if everything goes to plan

duncans contract expires this season if theres one...

then ginobolis the following year right?

thats like 30m off the books...and plenty of young guys on the team on rookie deals...

amnesty that idiot rj....

[therealtruth]

The RJ bashing never gets old. He was added to a team with 3 allstars and told to fill a role and mostly did. He hit 47 fg% and 44% 3pt and an ts% 61 all on limited touches. He tried on defense alot of times. What more do you want from him on team with Manu, Dunc, and TP? To score 20ppg? Wait, he was scoring 20ppg at the beginning of the season but Pop and TP slowed the tempo down to not play to his strengths. The Spurs know what they have to do to get more out of RJ. They just have to go back to doing it. It also makes sense if they use him more they can save wear and tear on Manu and Duncan.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The RJ bashing never gets old. He was added to a team with 3 allstars and told to fill a role and mostly did. He hit 47 fg% and 44% 3pt and an ts% 61 all on limited touches. He tried on defense alot of times. What more do you want from him on team with Manu, Dunc, and TP? To score 20ppg? Wait, he was scoring 20ppg at the beginning of the season but Pop and TP slowed the tempo down to not play to his strengths. The Spurs know what they have to do to get more out of RJ. They just have to go back to doing it. It also makes sense if they use him more they can save wear and tear on Manu and Duncan.

Now, I'm not into bashing RJ for the sake of it, but why don't you post his playoff stats as well as his reg season stats and then you might realize why he gets bashed.

[Thompson]

Towards the end, Jefferson would just hold the ball for a second before passing it to someone else. He never even tried to drive.

Leonard would be starting this year... but he missed training camp. Pop doesn't care that there was no training camp this year; he doesn't accept excuses. No playing time for Leonard this year. Splitter also missed training camp; look for RJ to play center.

[TimDunkem]

Towards the end, Jefferson would just hold the ball for a second before passing it to someone else. He never even tried to drive.

And if he did it normally resulted in a wild layup that usually never went in.

Seriously, how does a 9 year, 222 pound, NBA veteran -known for scoring on the fast break - not have the strength or skill to control himself when he attacks the paint (which - as we all know - didn't happen often)?

RJ just fucking sucks.

[LkrFan]

If RJ is amnestied, he should sign with the Lakers to be Kobe's back up. :downspin:

[TimDunkem]

He isn't even worthy of being Matt Barnes' backup.

[TD 21]

This talk about Jefferson "filling a positional need and giving them their best chance to contend" is nonsense. They could probably sign Battier, at a reasonable number, to a two year contract. It may take giving him a partially guaranteed third season, in order to lower the cap hit in the first two (a la Bowen and McDyess), but there's no reason to think they couldn't sign him. His defense is declining, but he's still a plus defender and a championship caliber role player.

If they did that and traded Blair/McDyess for Amir Johnson, they'd be left with the most balanced team they've had since '07 and they'd do so without increasing payroll.

[therealtruth]

This talk about Jefferson "filling a positional need and giving them their best chance to contend" is nonsense. They could probably sign Battier, at a reasonable number, to a two year contract. It may take giving him a partially guaranteed third season, in order to lower the cap hit in the first two (a la Bowen and McDyess), but there's no reason to think they couldn't sign him. His defense is declining, but he's still a plus defender and a championship caliber role player.

If they did that and traded Blair/McDyess for Amir Johnson, they'd be left with the most balanced team they've had since '07 and they'd do so without increasing payroll.

I agree Battier would have been the better fit mainly since the things they are asking RJ to do (hit 3's and defend) are strengths of Battier. Plus his offense is not as bad as Bowen. He has a little post up game. I still don't think it's mainly RJ's fault. The Spurs got him but weren't willing to commit to making the adjustments necessary to get the most out of him. It doesn't make sense to get someone with RJ's offense and force him into a poor man's Bruce Bowen.

[Big P]

Battier is not going to sign a 2 year deal with us... a lot of teams are interested in giving him full a mid level contract.

[Seventyniner]

Battier is not going to sign a 2 year deal with us... a lot of teams are interested in giving him full a mid level contract.

If the MLE actually exists, maybe. He's getting a little old to command the full MLE anyway.

The owners want tax-paying teams to lose their MLE, so if that happens, many of Battier's suitors would be unable to pay.

[Bruno]

The good news about RJ is that the new CBA will make trades easier because there will be more margin to match salaries. Spurs first option for RJ will be to trade him with Blair as sweetener of the deal.

[Seventyniner]

The good news about RJ is that the new CBA will make trades easier because there will be more margin to match salaries. Spurs first option for RJ will be to trade him with Blair as sweetener of the deal.

And take back a bigger/longer-term salary? Or is Blair the sweetener to basically dump RJ?


On a side note, does anyone know if Kawhi Leonard is working out with any of the long-time Spurs players? They could very well try and teach him some of the system in advance of the season.

[Chomag]

I know some people in New York that can make RJ disappear and probebly much cheaper then it would be to cut him.

Give me a call Holt I'll hook you up.

[TD 21]

Battier is not going to sign a 2 year deal with us... a lot of teams are interested in giving him full a mid level contract.

Who? I can't see the Celtics, Bulls, Mavs or Lakers being interested. The Heat are rumored to be, but it's unlikely they'd be able to offer more than the Spurs. And even if they could, he'd have no chance to start and he'd play limited minutes. The Thunder might be, but again, he'd have to play a limited role.

I'd be surprised if he get's more than 3 guaranteed seasons. Even if it took 3 though, obviously it wouldn't be ideal, but it's not like it would be an albatross. The MLE is expected to be $5 million annually, but there's no guarantee he even get's that. And as the team transitions to a re-building phase, he's the type of veteran presence it makes sense to have around young players. But if they really didn't want him by the third season, they probably wouldn't have great difficulty trading him to some contender, because of how highly regarded he is.

[Bruno]

Howard beck has some news regarding the future CBA and it's interesting to analyze Spurs' financial situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/sports/basketball/nba-in-letter-to-union-stern-details-his-ultimatum.html?_r=1


Salary-cap and luxury-tax levels in Years 1 and 2 of the new agreement will be no less than they were in 2010-11. By Year 3, they will be adjusted downward to conform to the new system.


Son, the luxury tax threshold for this year won't be below $70.31M.

Spurs payroll in 2011-2012 will be $71.15M for 11 players (Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, Blair, Duncan, Neal, Anderson, Bonner, Splitter, Leonard and Joseph). Fill the roster with min like players and Spurs payroll will be about $2M over the tax threshold.

The conclusion of all this is the following: using the amnesty clause on RJ isn't a that obvious move. Spurs best interest could very well be of not using it immediately which would explain why Holt is interested in this 2 years window.

[SenorSpur]

That was no favor; him opting out dicked the Spurs out of what would be one of the best trading pieces in the league (provided there is actually a season).

After that dismal first season that RJ posted, on top of that ginormous salary that he commanded, I can't see how the Spurs could've found any takers for him.

I get your point, though. In fact, now that I think about it, had he not opted out, RJ only had 1 year left on his existing contact. Because expiring contracts are so precious, perhaps it was conceivable that some team would've take a flier on him by the Feb trade deadline - at least for the potential cap space alone.

[lefty]

CROFL

https://twitter.com/fakecoachpop/status/133743797808005120

[Bruno]

With details of owners CBA proposal divulged, we can now have a close look at what Spurs should do with this amnesty clause.


Each team permitted to waive 1 player prior to any season of the CBA
(only for contracts in place at the inception of the CBA) and have 100% of
the player’s salary removed from team salary for Cap and Tax purposes.
So, there will have more than the 2 years window expected. Teams will have the length of the CBA to use the amnesty clause.


Spurs won't pay a lot of luxury tax if they are a couple of $M above the tax threshold.

In years 1 and 2, Tax rate for teams with team salary above Tax level is
$1-for-$1 (same as 2005 CBA).
With the new system Spurs would have paid $3M in tax for being $2M over the tax. Luxury tax should also be prorated to a 72 games season long. If Spurs are $2M over the tax, they will only paid $1.76M in tax.


There will have very few luxury tax money redistributed to no tax teams this year. With no LLE, a mini MLE, the pro-ration and an amnesty clause, the total amount of luxury tax should be low. But there is something new in this CBA that will lower the redistribution.

A maximum of 50% of Tax payments in any season can be directed
exclusively to non-taxpayers.
So, if 5 teams pay the tax, teams below it will receiver only 1/50th and not 1/30th of the tax collected. All in all, I would say that teams below the tax will only get $1M while in previous years it was around $3M.


But the biggest news is:

A modified waiver process would be utilized for players waived pursuant to the Amnesty rule, under which teams with Room under the Cap could submit competing offers to assume some but not all of the player’s
remaining contract. If a player’s contract is claimed in this manner, the
remaining portion of the player’s salary will continue to be paid by the
team that waived him.
RJ with his current salary sucks but some teams below the cap could claim a part of his salary.
For example, RJ with a 25% salary would cost $7.3M for almost 3 years. He would be an attractive player in these conditions. Even RJ with a 50% salary ($14.6M for 3 years) is a quite good deal.


The conclusion of all that is that Spurs will be in no rush at all to use the amnesty clause on RJ but it could be a great financial move if they get some feedbacks about teams below the tax being interested in getting him for about half of his salary.

[GrandeDavid]

I want Holt to continue leading the charge to hack those inflated salaries once and for all, even if it means missing an entire season. Heck, I'd like to see these former players get new gigs and just see an entirely new league get started.