Worst Owner in Football

[Flintstones32]

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201111/nfls-worst-owner-over-last-five-years

[JamStone]

The funny thing is that William Clay Ford has steadfastly exhibited two qualities that would almost always make an owner great.

1. Extreme loyalty (Matt Millen)
2. Stays out of the way of GM and coaches and let them do their jobs

The problem is that those two qualities have been so extreme, that each borders more on apathy, passiveness, and cluelessness than it does good ownership.

[JoeTait75]

The funny thing is that William Clay Ford has steadfastly exhibited two qualities that would almost always make an owner great.

1. Extreme loyalty (Matt Millen)
2. Stays out of the way of GM and coaches and let them do their jobs

The problem is that those two qualities have been so extreme, that each borders more on apathy, passiveness, and cluelessness than it does good ownership.

You could describe Randy Lerner the exact same way, at least with #2. Probably not the "extreme loyalty" part, though.

[Blake]

the team is in Detroit and Jerry Jones sucks.

stupid article, imo.

[JamStone]

the team is in Detroit and Jerry Jones sucks.

stupid article, imo.

Poor logic. Before 2008 and the 0-16, Lions home games still had around around 92-95% home attendance. After 0-16, home attendance had a huge drop the next couple seasons, all the way down to the mid 70%, which is unbelievable for the NFL. Started to pick up again last year, and obviously with the good start this season, home attendance has been fine.

Being in Detroit means very little when the majority of fans who attend the games come from the more affluent suburbs. The correlation is the product on the field and winning and losing.

[Blake]

Poor logic. Before 2008 and the 0-16, Lions home games still had around around 92-95% home attendance. After 0-16, home attendance had a huge drop the next couple seasons, all the way down to the mid 70%, which is unbelievable for the NFL. Started to pick up again last year, and obviously with the good start this season, home attendance has been fine.

Being in Detroit means very little when the majority of fans who attend the games come from the more affluent suburbs. The correlation is the product on the field and winning and losing.

Poor logic is attributing the job an owner is doing to just one thing, whether it be profit margins or win/loss record.

There are many aspects that go into it, and you are stupid if you don't think Detroit's economic woes plays at least some part in attendance dropping and loss of profits.

Apparently the Pistons are hurting too:


The Detroit Pistons have been losing money and have been borrowing cash to meet operating expenses — debt that will be assumed by new owner Tom Gores, sources familiar with the situation told Crain's.

........

Sports insiders have said Detroit's economy is the primary culprit in the Pistons' financial woes — drying up attendance and corporate sales and forcing the team to offer deep discounts.

In January, Forbes.com valued the team at $360 million, which represents a $119 million decline in value over 12 months. The financial news website attributed the lost value to declining attendance and the Detroit-area economy.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20110517/FREE/110519885/sources-say-pistons-have-been-borrowing-to-pay-operating-expenses-new-owner-gores-will-assume-that-debt#

[pawe]

Suh, Stafford and Megatron are trying real hard to change that and Blake is right about Detroit's economy right now.
Not only are the tickets expensive but $7 beers and $5 hotdogs really hurts the pocket.

[JamStone]

Poor logic is attributing the job an owner is doing to just one thing, whether it be profit margins or win/loss record.

There are many aspects that go into it, and you are stupid if you don't think Detroit's economic woes plays at least some part in attendance dropping and loss of profits.

Apparently the Pistons are hurting too:

There's obviously plenty of factors when a sports franchise loses money. With the Lions and even other Detroit sports, the team being good and winning plays a huge role. I never said Detroit's economy doesn't play any role. But if the team is winning, the attendance will be fine and ultimately the team would not be in the red. The Tigers are located in the same downtown Detroit, with the same economic struggles. They had very good attendance this season because they were actually good. Pistons until 2-3 years ago had the longest running sold out home games in the league and it was it was several years long. If you haven't noticed, the Pistons have sucked the last couple seasons. When they were good, they were selling out. The economy has been bad in Detroit for over a decade.

NFL sells. Only 16 games, only 8 home games. People attend when the team is good. And as I mentioned before, it's not "poor people" in Detroit anyway. It's people in the affluent suburbs going downtown to watch the game. They will sell if the team is good. This year, as long as the Lions continue to be solid and relevant, they'll sell out their remaining homes games and the Lions won't be financially in the red this season.

Yes, the economy in Detroit is bad. And that will have its shared effect. But your initial post is still based on poor logic. The Detroit economy is still bad but both the Lions and Tigers in downtown Detroit will make money on home attendance.

[DarkReign]

I clicked the thread expecting to nominate Bill Ford Sr.

Awesome that I didnt have to.

I have never walked inside Ford Field for any reason, and I never will until that old fucking relic is dead and gone. Worst piece of shit to own a franchise, second only to "Dollar" Bill Wirtz.

[DeadlyDynasty]

At least your owner isn't suffering dementia and carrying a colostomy bag in tow.

[JoeTait75]

At least your owner isn't suffering dementia and carrying a colostomy bag in tow.

At least your owner is in the building. He's a hundred years old, he's drooling and he's shitting into a plastic bag- but he's in the building.

Our owner is either in the Hamptons or in England wearing a faggoty scarf and rooting on his stupid Premiership team. He can't even be bothered to make the owners' meetings.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/randy-lerner_1410510c.jpg

[Spursfan092120]

the team is in Detroit and Jerry Jones sucks.

stupid article, imo.

I fucking hate Jerry Jones......as a GM. As an owner, he really is one of the best. Owning a team is about making money, and very few are as good at that as Jerry..and he's proven he doesn't have a problem with spending money for his team. He just makes shit ass decisions.

[DeadlyDynasty]

At least your owner is in the building. He's a hundred years old, he's drooling and he's shitting into a plastic bag- but he's in the building.

Our owner is either in the Hamptons or in England wearing a faggoty scarf and rooting on his stupid Premiership team. He can't even be bothered to make the owners' meetings.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/randy-lerner_1410510c.jpg

Lake Erie teams can't catch a break :lol

[JoeTait75]

What's great about Randy is that every two or three years he'll drop in to see how everyone's doing.

Inevitably he'll find a MRSA outbreak in the medical facility, a power struggle somewhere in the front office, fans that are screaming for heads and a horrible team that just got beat by 40 by Pittsburgh at home- Terrible Towels filling the stands, of course.

He then fires EVERYONE and starts over again. New GM, new coach, new systems, wholesale roster shuffling, etc. Lather, rinse, repeat.


Lake Erie teams can't catch a break :lol

Life in the fall is a little bit better when you have a quality NFL team to root for.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Indeed it is...i'm still waiting for the bottom to drop out though. I think this jet game could send them into a downward spiral.

[JoeTait75]

doublepost

[slick'81]

agreed with jerrah great owner horrible gm

[LnGrrrR]

tbh, I think Pats fans are blessed... I couldn't ask for a better owner

[JoeTait75]

tbh, I think Pats fans are blessed... I couldn't ask for a better owner

Yeah, Kraft is about as good as it gets. Doesn't meddle or interfere but he's visible, out front, leading the organization and setting the tone.

I guess after Victor Kiam you guys were due.

[Blake]

There's obviously plenty of factors when a sports franchise loses money.

So you agree.


Yes, the economy in Detroit is bad. And that will have its shared effect.

you agree again.


But your initial post is still based on poor logic.

lol.

you're stupid and your conclusion of the logic in my initial 5+ word post is illogical.

[Blake]

I fucking hate Jerry Jones......as a GM. As an owner, he really is one of the best. Owning a team is about making money, and very few are as good at that as Jerry..and he's proven he doesn't have a problem with spending money for his team. He just makes shit ass decisions.

There's no set criteria here for what it means to be a great owner.

Nobody doubts JJ business and marketing skills.

[JamStone]

So you agree.



you agree again.

Never said there weren't many factors to a team losing money. And never said Detroit didn't have a bad economy. And you never made those points in your initial post. So I agree with nothing. I stipulated to facts that I never disagreed with in the first place.




lol.

you're stupid and your conclusion of the logic in my initial 5+ word post is illogical.

I inferred what you were suggesting about Detroit's economy in your initial 5+ word post. Your subsequent post criticizing Detroit's economy confirmed what I inferred. Therefore, my conclusion about your logic was right on. The Detroit economy has been pretty bad over the last decade, yet when the teams win, they sell and they make money. When the teams are bad, they don't sell and they don't make money. The economy has some effect, but it's not the main reason a sports team loses money in Detroit. Not a difficult concept to grasp... for most people.

[Blake]

Never said there weren't many factors to a team losing money. And never said Detroit didn't have a bad economy. And you never made those points in your initial post. So I agree with nothing. I stipulated to facts that I never disagreed with in the first place.

You agree that Detroit's economy plays a role.

You just said it does in the previous post.


I inferred what you were suggesting about Detroit's economy in your initial 5+ word post. Your subsequent post criticizing Detroit's economy confirmed what I inferred. Therefore, my conclusion about your logic was right on. The Detroit economy has been pretty bad over the last decade, yet when the teams win, they sell and they make money. When the teams are bad, they don't sell and they don't make money. The economy has some effect, but it's not the main reason a sports team loses money in Detroit. Not a difficult concept to grasp... for most people.

You say that Detroit's economy does have some effect and then say I have poor logic for saying the same.

You are coming to poor conclusions, contradicting yourself and looking stupid, tbh.

[JamStone]

The economy has an effect, just like in a lot of other NFL cities. The economy is not the main reason the team has lost money over the last few years. The main reason is the team losing, the product on the field. Like I've said a couple of times now, even in the bad economy, when Detroit teams win, they sell. So even in a bad economy, an NFL team should not be in the red.

Here's where economy plays a role. When the team is winning and they're still selling most of their tickets, the difference in home game attendance might be something like 95% in Detroit versus 100% in a city with a better economy. Likewise, when the team is bad, the difference in home attendance might be something like 75% in Detroit versus 90% in a city with a better economy.

But to the point of the article, the Lions losing money in recent years should not be blamed mostly on the economy. The economy has been bad for a long time, but if the team is winning, they haven't, aren't, and won't lose money.

You suggest just because it's Detroit, it was a stupid article. What I inferred from your comments is that it's mostly on the economy. That's what I disagree with. That's what I think is poor logic.

[Blake]

The economy is not the main reason the team has lost money over the last few years. The main reason is the team losing, the product on the field.

I never gave my opinion on what the main reason might be and it's irrelevant to why I think the article is stupid.


What I inferred from your comments is that it's mostly on the economy.

I know you did.

It was stupid and illogical of you to do so.

[JamStone]

I apologize if what I inferred was inaccurate.

So please explain fully what you meant by simply stating that since it's Detroit, the article is stupid. And if you weren't suggesting the economy, why your subsequent posts focused on the economy.

[Blake]

So please explain fully what you meant by simply stating that since it's Detroit, the article is stupid. And if you weren't suggesting the economy, why your subsequent posts focused on the economy.

Most of the time when rankings come out, the source will clearly lay out many different aspects and criteria that lead them to their conclusions.

This article says that Ford is the worst owner because the Lions were the only team to lose money last year and the value of the franchise has dropped over the last five years.

That's it.

It's stupid for Forbes not take the Detroit economy, among other things, into account for some of the Lions financial woes and simply call Ford the worst owner in the NFL because they are losing money.

.......especially when the exact same Forbes takes the Detroit economy into account for some of the Pistons' financial woes.

[JamStone]

So what did you mean by saying "they play in Detroit?"

What does it matter that they play in Detroit? The economy has been bad for a long time. This year the economy has been as bad as it has been in recent years. So far this season, home attendance in the first 4 home games is at 98%. The Lions will not be in the red this season.

What were you suggesting by saying "they play in Detroit?" What was your point?

[Blake]

So what did you mean by saying "they play in Detroit?"

What does it matter that they play in Detroit? The economy has been bad for a long time. This year the economy has been as bad as it has been in recent years. So far this season, home attendance in the first 4 home games is at 98%. The Lions will not be in the red this season.

What were you suggesting by saying "they play in Detroit?" What was your point?

The person(s) writing the article should have given Ford a bit of a break due to Detroit's economy, among other things.

Since they didn't, I don't give the article much credence and find it lazy and stupid.

I can't dumb it down for you any further than this.

[JamStone]

As I already pointed out, Detroit's economy won't negatively affect the business bottomline enough to put the team in the red (like it has been the last few years) if the product on the field is good. If the team is good, the team sells and makes money regardless of the economy in Detroit. That's proven. I can't dumb that down any further for you. The team being in Detroit does not matter. The product on the field matters.

Now that you have failed to make any relevant point about the team playing in Detroit being a factor, your initial comment that they play in Detroit still makes no sense.

If you find the article stupid because they didn't consider all the factors, that's fine. Your comment that they play in Detroit is irrelevant and pointless.

[Blake]

If the team is good, the team sells and makes money regardless of the economy in Detroit. That's proven. I can't dumb that down any further for you. The team being in Detroit does not matter. The product on the field matters.


You yourself have said that the economy affects the profit margins.


Now that you have failed to make any relevant point about the team playing in Detroit being a factor, your initial comment that they play in Detroit still makes no sense.

I've got a quote sourcing Forbes in this very thread that says the city's economy affects profits for the Pistons.

Logic and common sense dictate that it would also affect the other sports teams like the Lions.


If you find the article stupid because they didn't consider all the factors, that's fine. Your comment that they play in Detroit is irrelevant and pointless.

I was wondering if we were going to get to page 3 before you caught on.

Yes, it's stupid because they didn't consider all the factors.

One of the factors is them playing in Detroit. You have said so yourself in other posts before saying it's irrelevant in this post.

Either the Detroit economy has affected profit margins or it hasn't. Pick a lane.

[JamStone]

The bottomline is losing money and the Lions being in the red. The issue is to what degree the economy affects the Lions financially. Does it play a part? I've already said it does. But it's not anywhere near a major reason why the Lions have lost money in recent years. I don't see how you don't understand that.

The economy is bad right now in Detroit. The Lions are selling 98% of their seats in home games. They will make money this season. If the poor economy doesn't prevent the Lions from earning money, making a profit, and staying out of the red RIGHT NOW while the economy is bad, then it's not an excuse in previous seasons. You don't seem to get that.

The Lions have lost money in recent years because the fans got sick of the product on the field because the Lions have been so bad. Poor people in Detroit weren't going to Lions games anyway. The people not going to the games in recent years weren't going because the team sucked and they were sick of William Clay Ford and Matt Millen up until he left, not because they couldn't afford to go.

It started in 2005 when fans started to get sick and tired of Matt Millen and William Clay Ford. They wanted Ford to fire Millen and sell the team. Millen was the GM for the next 2+ seasons. Typically a GM gets 3 years to start turning things around, especially in the NFL where teams can make dramatic improvements on a year to year basis. In Millen's first 4 seasons as GM, 2-14, 3-13, 5-11, 6-10. That's a record of 16-48. No GM would make it out alive. Matt Millen was the GM for the next 3 seasons plus 3 more games into the 2008 season. Matt Millen didn't get fired immediately after the Lions went 0-16 in 2007.

The fans stopped going to games because of the product on the field and their disgust with ownership and management. But you want to suggest that William Clay Ford deserves a break because his team plays in Detroit? The economy hasn't prevented the team from making a profit. The team has. The ownership and management have. The team the last two seasons has started to show minimal progress and improvement and already the ticket sales show it. The team doesn't even have to be Superbowl contenders. They don't even have to a perennial playoff team. Just be respectable, and Lions fans will spend money and go to games and the team will turn over a profit. That wasn't happening for a good 5-6 years and that's where they lost their fans and money. Not because of the economy.

Your posts are pretty ignorant to what truly has been the case with the financial issues the Detroit Lions have had in recent years. It's pretty ridiculous to suggest as you did earlier that the "article should have given Ford a bit of a break due to Detroit's economy." Beyond ridiculous actually.

[Blake]

5 paragraphs of tldr shit.

you're saying I should believe you instead of Forbes?

Very poor logic. Beyond ridiculous and really stupid, tbh.

[JamStone]

Shrugs, I can't do anything if you're too lazy to read it.

I'll leave you with this then. If the economy is still bad in Detroit right now, and they have no problem selling out the games and making a profit, then why should Ford be given "a break" in previous seasons because of Detroit's economy?

The point I've been making from the beginning is that Detroit's bad economy isn't much of a factor at all as to why the Lions were losing money. It was the team, management, and ownership all being shit. The team can make and has made money regardless of the economy. Ford should not get "a break" because of Detroit's economy.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Stadium debt.

Sucking that bad for that long leads to ginormous high dollar rookie contracts and one of the worst cap situations in the league.

Apathy.

Economy.

⌃⌃That's the less wordy version.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Maybe what Ford needs is a hurricane and to win a SB to become a great owner.

Seems to have worked for Benson after years of threatening to move the Saints and being universally hated by Saints' fans.

[Blake]

Shrugs, I can't do anything if you're too lazy to read it.

I'll leave you with this then. If the economy is still bad in Detroit right now, and they have no problem selling out the games and making a profit, then why should Ford be given "a break" in previous seasons because of Detroit's economy?

The point I've been making from the beginning is that Detroit's bad economy isn't much of a factor at all as to why the Lions were losing money. It was the team, management, and ownership all being shit. The team can make and has made money regardless of the economy. Ford should not get "a break" because of Detroit's economy.

you have your opinion based on ass and I have mine based on what I've read about detroit which I shared in part with you.

Great logic you're using, brah.

[JamStone]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2011

Year, win/loss record, home attendance:

2006, 3-13, 93.7%
2007, 7-9,94.3%
2008, 0-16, 84.5%
2009, 2-14, 76.6%
2010, 6-10, 87.3%
2011, 6-2, 98.3%

The Lions went 3-13 in 2006 and still sold 93.7% at home games. Before 2008 and 0-16, they were still making money, still close to selling their home games. Look at 2008 and since. A 10% drop in home attendance is up to $3-5 million. That's why they were in the red. And that was a result of the team being bad and fans being fed up with ownership and management. The team has gotten to a 6-2 start this year, and attendance is up to 98% for home games. The Detroit economy has been as bad as it has been the previous 3 years.

So how can they sell with the economy still being bad?

[Pelicans78]

Maybe what Ford needs is a hurricane and to win a SB to become a great owner.

Seems to have worked for Benson after years of threatening to move the Saints and being universally hated by Saints' fans.

Worked for me. Benson has improved somewhat thanks to his granddaughter who has a big part in this team. But yeah he's made a lot of mistakes.

[Blake]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2011

Year, win/loss record, home attendance:

2006, 3-13, 93.7%
2007, 7-9,94.3%
2008, 0-16, 84.5%
2009, 2-14, 76.6%
2010, 6-10, 87.3%
2011, 6-2, 98.3%

The Lions went 3-13 in 2006 and still sold 93.7% at home games. Before 2008 and 0-16, they were still making money, still close to selling their home games. Look at 2008 and since. A 10% drop in home attendance is up to $3-5 million. That's why they were in the red. And that was a result of the team being bad and fans being fed up with ownership and management. The team has gotten to a 6-2 start this year, and attendance is up to 98% for home games. The Detroit economy has been as bad as it has been the previous 3 years.

So how can they sell with the economy still being bad?

you're saying the economy this year in Detroit is as bad as it was when the auto makers needed the bailout back somewhere near the 09-10 season?

I think you're talking out of your ass again.