Nbadan's tin foil hat must have slipped off...

[The Ressurrected One]

...I'm surprised he wasn't all over this.

United Press International dropped a pantload (http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050613-102755-6408r.htm) on us today, in parts. First this turd:


A former Bush team member during his first administration is now voicing serious doubts about the collapse of the World Trade Center on 9-11. Former chief economist for the Department of Labor during President George W. Bush's first term Morgan Reynolds comments that the official story about the collapse of the WTC is "bogus" and that it is more likely that a controlled demolition destroyed the Twin Towers and adjacent Building No. 7.
Ah yes, the thoroughly debunked "Bush did it" conspiracy theory. You had to be a complete moron to buy this nonsense when it originally surfaced, and Popular Mechanics (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y) was kind enough to do the heavy lifting on it in March. The problem with conspiracy theorists on this type of thing is that they try to reverse engineer "what must have happened" from a unique event and what they think they know about how the world works. If war proves anything, it's that mass destruction is unpredictable and stranger than fiction. Things that shouldn't happen do and things that should happen don't. Trying to prove a conspiracy by arguing that a building collapse looked like a controlled demolition or that not enough plane debris was found is beyond stupid.

But the UPI isn't done yet! No, no, no...they whizzed on the turd with this:


Two years after President George W. Bush proclaimed "mission accomplished" in Iraq, some thoughtful officers are beginning to question who the insurgents actually are. In a recent interview the head of the US 42nd Infantry Division which covers key trouble spots, including Baquba and Samarra Major General Joseph Taluto said he could understand why some ordinary Iraqis would take up arms against U.S. forces because "they're offended by our presence." Taluto added, "If a good, honest person feels having all these Humvees driving on the road, having us moving people out of the way, having us patrol the streets, having car bombs going off, you can understand how they could (want to fight us). There is a sense of a good resistance, or an accepted resistance. They say 'okay, if you shoot a coalition soldier, that's okay, it's not a bad thing but you shouldn't kill other Iraqis.'"
I guess that's why so few Iraqis have been killed by this "resistance." Oh that's right, they've killed far more Iraqis than soldiers, coalition or Iraqi Army. The "insurgents" aren't ordinary Iraqis, as Taluto well knows. I don't doubt that the presence of foreign military units is offensive, but that's a much more complex issue than "America Bad." I wouldn't be surprised if this were taken out of context. I sure hope so.

Who do they think they are? Reuters?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

have we caught osama yet? isnt that why we invaded afghanistan?

oh wait, where is afghanistan, i meant iraq

oh wait, not iraq, i meant iran

wait, who is it we're after in iran?

[The Ressurrected One]

have we caught osama yet? isnt that why we invaded afghanistan?

oh wait, where is afghanistan, i meant iraq

oh wait, not iraq, i meant iran

wait, who is it we're after in iran?
Well, at least you still have contact with the Mother Ship.

Say, any idea how long, after VE Day, we knew the disposition of Adolf Hitler?

[Nbadan]

Ah yes, the thoroughly debunked "Bush did it" conspiracy theory. You had to be a complete moron to buy this nonsense when it originally surfaced, and Popular Mechanics was kind enough to do the heavy lifting on it in March. The problem with conspiracy theorists on this type of thing is that they try to reverse engineer "what must have happened" from a unique event and what they think they know about how the world works. If war proves anything, it's that mass destruction is unpredictable and stranger than fiction. Things that shouldn't happen do and things that should happen don't. Trying to prove a conspiracy by arguing that a building collapse looked like a controlled demolition or that not enough plane debris was found is beyond stupid.

This thread belongs in a conspiracy theory forum, not on any legitimate news forum. It's not that Popular Mechnaics should be taken as the 'final' authoritative voice on 911 either, since their analysis left many unanswered questions, but because the Bush administration sold, bartered, dumped all the physical evidence from both the twin towers and Pentagon sites as quickly and as quietly as they could. So we can sit here and hypothesis about the circumstances surrounding the events that lead to 911 and whether the Bush administration actively participated, or whether they let the attacks happen, but without physical evidence we are just pissing into the wind.

[Useruser666]

This thread belongs in a conspiracy theory forum, not on any legitimate news forum. It's not that Popular Mechnaics should be taken as the 'final' authoritative voice on 911 either, since their analysis left many unanswered questions, but because the Bush administration sold, bartered, dumped all the physical evidence from both the twin towers and Pentagon sites as quickly and as quietly as they could. So we can sit here and hypothesis about the circumstances surrounding the events that lead to 911 and whether the Bush administration actively participated, or whether they let the attacks happen, but without physical evidence we are just pissing into the wind.

You know nothing about construction, demolition, or structural engineering. But feel free to comment. The Bush administration has nothing to do with what happens to the site, the debry, or the speed at which is was cleaned up. The owner of the property, the port authority, the GC/site managment company, and the demolition company are all involved with that process. And guess what? They want it done cheaply, quickly, and quietly! Those are the TOP 3 priorities when it comes to jobs likes this. Oh and that is even throwing out the feeling that the people were taking pride in clearing the site out and trying to get things back to normal for the city.

See Dan, you know jack shit on this subject. No physical evidence? Really? That's funny, because there are literaly tons and tons and tons of it all over the country. Many, many pieces have been sent to labs, universities, and testing yards for analysis. Why? To find out why it happened. Something like a building falling down is always thoroughly investigated, no matter what the cause. And believe me, the trade center, the other buildings around it, and the Pentagon have been sifted over a thousand times. Conspiracy my ass.

[mookie2001]

The Bush administration has nothing to do with what happens to the site, the debry, or the speed at which is was cleaned up.


BULLSHIT!, I dont think youre giving them enough credit, you mean they can shut down the airline industry, pass unconstitutional laws, fly bin ladens out of the country, all within a days. but get scoffed on PHYSICALLY handling the site?

[Useruser666]

BULLSHIT!, I dont think youre giving them enough credit, you mean they can shut down the airline industry, pass unconstitutional laws, fly bin ladens out of the country, all within a days. but get scoffed on PHYSICALLY handling the site?

Credit has nothing to do with this issue.

[Nbadan]

You know nothing about construction, demolition, or structural engineering. But feel free to comment. The Bush administration has nothing to do with what happens to the site, the debry, or the speed at which is was cleaned up. The owner of the property, the port authority, the GC/site managment company, and the demolition company are all involved with that process. And guess what? They want it done cheaply, quickly, and quietly! Those are the TOP 3 priorities when it comes to jobs likes this. Oh and that is even throwing out the feeling that the people were taking pride in clearing the site out and trying to get things back to normal for the city.


:rolleyes

Yeah, the FBI left the site of the largest of the largest mass muder in American history completely in the hands of the NY Port Authority. So there!

[Useruser666]

:rolleyes

Yeah, the FBI left the site of the largest of the largest mass muder in American history completely in the hands of the NY Port Authority. So there!

So what does that mean? Who should they have left it to? The Port Authority runs that entire area. Why wouldn't they have turned the area over to them?

[Nbadan]

So what does that mean? Who should they have left it to? The Port Authority runs that entire area. Why wouldn't they have turned the area over to them?

Look, I'm not saying the Port Authority shouldn't have been involved, but all the key physical evidence that resulted from one of the greatest crimes of our era, not to mention the disengaged remains of 100's of victims, lay in that pile of mountainous rubble. We owed it to the victims of 911 to conduct as many tests as humanly possible on the debris to determine how and why Tower 1 and Tower 2 collapsed. I'm not a engineer, although I sometimes play one on TV, but surely, some sort of stress tests could have been conducted on some of the remaining pylons and beams to determine if the combination of heat from a Jet fuel fire, the weight and impact of the plane that supposedly hit the tower, and unfortunate construction design of the 911 towers, could have brought these bohemians down. None of this was done. The steel from the Towers quickly wound up in metal scrap yards in from China, to Indonesia, to India, and now the Tower site sits as an empty hole, and a symbol of our governments pledge to fully avenge the deaths of our heroes.

[Useruser666]

Look, I'm not saying the Port Authority shouldn't have been involved, but all the key physical evidence that resulted from one of the greatest crimes of our era, not to mention the disengaged remains of 100's of victims, lay in that pile of mountainous rubble. We owed it to the victims of 911 to conduct as many tests as humanly possible on the debris to determine how and why Tower 1 and Tower 2 collapsed. I'm not a engineer, although I sometimes play one on TV, but surely, some sort of stress tests could have been conducted on some of the remaining pylons and beams to determine if the combination of heat from a Jet fuel fire, the weight and impact of the plane that supposedly hit the tower, and unfortunate construction design of the 911 towers, could have brought these bohemians down. None of this was done. The steel from the Towers quickly wound up in metal scrap yards in from China, to Indonesia, to India, and now the Tower site sits as an empty hole, and a symbol of our governments pledge to fully avenge the deaths of our heroes.


I'm glad you admitted you're not an engineer. So now I will inform you on some things you maybe didn't know.

1. Stress tests have been performed on some of the steel that was removed from the World Trade Center site. Many of them, actually. Any time there is a structural failure in the US, it is gone over with a fine tooth comb. The WTC was poured over by many structural engineers, metallurgists, and architects. In the areas of engineering and design, when something doesn't go right, you have to find out why so as not to repeat yourmistakes. Now the WTC didn't necessarily, "not go right", because it wasn't designed to take the impact of aircrafts as large as the hijacked planes. But even so, the engineering community would instantly want to know why it failed. There is no way on earth that they could keep people from going over what happened. The engineering community wouldn't allow it and would have been in an uproar.

2. There is still TONS of WTC debris in the US. I bolded that so you wouldn't miss it. There is still many of the parts that failed due to the extreme heat of the fires and which ultimatly lead to the towers' collapse. They are all over the place! Some are still being tested by stundents at universities, others are sitting on the desks of engineers as paper weights. If this was a conspiracy to remove all the evidence, then why is it eeverywhere? Why has it been thouroghly tested by many different people? Why has their testing and analysis been published and reviewed by peers?

3. Time is money and money is time. In the construction game, time is money. Removal of the WTC debris was a big and lucrative job for many contractors. The site where the WTC stood is VERY valuable property. It's only valuable if someone is paying to occupy it. As it lay after the attacks, no one was paying the rent. The land was a big void and profits were being lost by the second.

That's where contractors come into play. They are hired to clear the debris and repair the sub basement and the damaged subway lines that ran below the area. The subway being of great importance to New York citizens, it had to be fixed ASAP. Only by removing the debris could it be fixed. There are also damaged water, power, gas, and sewer lines that all needed attention at the site. The faster it's cleared, the better. The contractors even recieve bonuses for how quickly they worked to reomve the ruble, a common practice at construction sites everywhere. You have mistaken common practice with your laymen's eye as something sinister. Something it clearly is not.


4. What do mean by the plane that "supposedly" hit the tower? The plane HIT the tower, or didn't you see the video yet? Educate yourself Dan before you go off on a wild goose chase.

[Nbadan]

Stress tests have been performed on some of the steel that was removed from the World Trade Center site. Many of them, actually. Any time there is a structural failure in the US, it is gone over with a fine tooth comb. The WTC was poured over by many structural engineers, metallurgists, and architects. In the areas of engineering and design, when something doesn't go right, you have to find out why so as not to repeat yourmistakes. Now the WTC didn't necessarily, "not go right", because it wasn't designed to take the impact of aircrafts as large as the hijacked planes. But even so, the engineering community would instantly want to know why it failed. There is no way on earth that they could keep people from going over what happened. The engineering community wouldn't allow it and would have been in an uproar.

Were are the test results then? Why is even Popular Mechanics not talking scientific absolutes when it comes to hypothesisizing about the Twin Towers? What about building number 7? Fire has never been responsible for bringing down a modern building, but it happened on 911. If the administration really had used due diligence in investigating the material evidence we would have answers to all these questions, but instead all we have is just hyposthesis and more questions.

[Nbadan]

Time is money and money is time. In the construction game, time is money. Removal of the WTC debris was a big and lucrative job for many contractors. The site where the WTC stood is VERY valuable property. It's only valuable if someone is paying to occupy it. As it lay after the attacks, no one was paying the rent. The land was a big void and profits were being lost by the second.

We are talking about one of the most hollowed sites in American History. What we did to the WT debris is kinda like the old Texas Republic having torn down the Alamo, after the great battle, and sold its parts to Spain, Italy and France.

[Nbadan]

4. What do mean by the plane that "supposedly" hit the tower? The plane HIT the tower, or didn't you see the video yet? Educate yourself Dan before you go off on a wild goose chase.

There is mounting physical evidence that it was a smaller plane that hit Tower 2 than what is said to have hit. The engines that were pulled from the wreckage were not compatible with the plane that was supposed to have hit. Now that's solid physical evidence that should be investigated, but it hasn't.

[Clandestino]

i know nbadan is knownalien's brother...

or boyfriend...

[Useruser666]

There is mounting physical evidence that it was a smaller plane that hit Tower 2 than what is said to have hit. The engines that were pulled from the wreckage were not compatible with the plane that was supposed to have hit. Now that's solid physical evidence that should be investigated, but it hasn't.

Dan, there is FUCKING VIDEO OF THE PLANE THAT HIT THE TOWER!!! HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How can you say you hold any kind of knowledge of what happened of the events of September 11, 2001 when you didn't even watch the video of the planes hitting it?!!! I mean crap, the video is clear as day as to which planes hit where. Oh, as a matter of fact, I was watching the LIVE news cast of the attacks just as the second plane struck the towers. Anyone who is arguing what type of plane hit the towers is a total idiot. It's your choice to put yourself in that group.

[Useruser666]

Were are the test results then? Why is even Popular Mechanics not talking scientific absolutes when it comes to hypothesisizing about the Twin Towers? What about building number 7? Fire has never been responsible for bringing down a modern building, but it happened on 911. If the administration really had used due diligence in investigating the material evidence we would have answers to all these questions, but instead all we have is just hyposthesis and more questions.

Maybe you don't hear or see correctly, THERE HAS BEEN TONS OF TESTING ON DEBRIS FROMT THE TRADE CENTER TOWERS AND THE SURROUNDING BUILDINGS THAT FAILED!!! Who gives a shit if Popular Mechanics didn't use scientific terms for talking about what happened? PM is like Highlights magazine for kids. It dumbs down everything and skips 90% of the information in order to fit it in their publication. They are not the investigators, nor are they ANY KIND of authority on ANYTHING!

The administration really has nothing to do with the process of investigating why the buildings fell down. The people who are really supposed to do the investigating, already have. They have already released their reports. If you would have bothered to read them instead of "Populr Mechanics" you would actually know some facts about what happened.


but instead all we have is just hyposthesis and more questions.

Again, actually take the time to read into the MOUNTAIN of reports and analysis that has already been sitting around and you wouldn't be running around blaming Bush for something he has nothing to do with.

[Useruser666]

We are talking about one of the most hollowed sites in American History. What we did to the WT debris is kinda like the old Texas Republic having torn down the Alamo, after the great battle, and sold its parts to Spain, Italy and France.

This is totally ridiculous. The debris from the WTC is thousands of times that of any that could be created by the Alamo. The debris was carefuly sorted through for remains in the FishKills landfill. Many pieces of interest or that were to be tested were taken out for testing. Many other pieces were sent to several universities and other labs to do their own analysis.