CIA Drones Kill Large Groups Without Knowing Who They Are

[Winehole23]

The expansion of the CIA’s undeclared drone war in the tribal areas of Pakistan required a big expansion of who can be marked for death. Once the standard for targeted killing was top-level leadership in al-Qaeda or one of its allies. That’s long gone, especially as the number of people targeted at once has grown.


This is the new standard, according to a blockbuster piece in the Wall Street Journal: “men believed to be militants associated with terrorist groups, but whose identities aren’t always known (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204621904577013982672973836.html?m od=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories).” The CIA is now killing people without knowing who they are, on suspicion of association with terrorist groups. The article does not define the standards are for “suspicion” and “association.”
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/11/cia-drones-marked-for-death/

[TDMVPDPOY]

explains where the 122 missiles went lmao...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Pakistan is to Laos as Afghanistan is to Vietnam.

[ElNono]

"Collateral"

[Ignignokt]

What's wrong with that?

Drones aren't conscious aware beings who have the ability of value judgements.

LOL

Sorry, i had to do that.

[Nbadan]

study suggests drones kill far fewer civilians than many Pakistanis believe


ISLAMABAD (AP) — American drone strikes inside Pakistan are killing far fewer civilians than many in the country are led to believe, according to a rare on-the-ground investigation by The Associated Press of 10 of the deadliest attacks in the past 18 months.

The widespread perception in Pakistan that civilians, not militants, are the principal victims — a view that is fostered by leading right-wing politicians, clerics and the fighters themselves — fuels pervasive anti-American sentiment and, some argue, has swelled the ranks of al-Qaida and the Taliban.

But an AP reporter who spoke to about 80 villagers at the sites of the 10 attacks in North Waziristan, the main sanctuary for militants in Pakistan's northwest tribal region along the Afghan border, was told that a significant majority of the dead were combatants.

Indeed, the AP was told by the villagers that of at least 194 people killed in the attacks, about 70 percent — at least 138 — were militants. The remaining 56 were either civilians or tribal police, and 38 of them were killed in a single attack on March 17, 2011.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-bc-as--pakistan-droneshumancost,0,5791907.story

[Wild Cobra]

study suggests drones kill far fewer civilians than many Pakistanis believe



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-bc-as--pakistan-droneshumancost,0,5791907.story

Like I have repeatedly said. These soldiers of Islamic peace don't wear uniforms. Once you remove the weapons from their dead hands, you can take pictures and claim they are civilians.

[TDMVPDPOY]

pretty hard to detect when these clowns wear long robes as 1 piece of clothing lol...

[boutons_deux]

Shocking Admission on Killing Civilians by Top US General Almost Completely Ignored by Corporate Media

"an astonishing open admission of possible US war crimes by
Obama's man on the ground in Kabul, senior American and NATO commander in
Afghanistan General Stanley A. McChrystal, was reported by Richard A. Oppel Jr.
in the New York Times... and then promptly ignored by the rest of the mainstream
media.

"We have shot an amazing number of people, but to my knowledge, none has ever
proven to be a threat," McChrystal said during a recent video-conference to answer
questions from troops in the field about civilian casualties."

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/146251

[Wild Cobra]

Shocking Admission on Killing Civilians by Top US General Almost Completely Ignored by Corporate Media

"an astonishing open admission of possible US war crimes by
Obama's man on the ground in Kabul, senior American and NATO commander in
Afghanistan General Stanley A. McChrystal, was reported by Richard A. Oppel Jr.
in the New York Times... and then promptly ignored by the rest of the mainstream
media.

"We have shot an amazing number of people, but to my knowledge, none has ever
proven to be a threat," McChrystal said during a recent video-conference to answer
questions from troops in the field about civilian casualties."

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/146251
LOL...

"None has proven to be a threat..."

In war, what type of proof is required?

[boutons_deux]

That's the US GOVT LIE :

Declaring continuous war on the planet, giving the President war-time powers, murdering anybody with no proven threat, anywhere.

It America's planet to rape, plunder, and garrison.

Counter America the Murderous Imperialist, You Die.

[boutons_deux]

And the Generals want less civilian control, even less Pentagon control, and no/less oversight to murder without restraint

Admiral Seeks Freer Hand in Deployment of Elite Forces

the nation’s top Special Operations officer, a member of the Navy Seals who oversaw the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, is seeking new authority to move his forces faster and outside of normal Pentagon deployment channels.

pushing for a larger role for his elite units who have traditionally operated in the dark corners of American foreign policy. The plan would give him more autonomy to position his forces and their war-fighting equipment where intelligence and global events indicate they are most needed.

It would also allow the Special Operations forces to expand their presence in regions where they have not operated in large numbers for the past decade, especially in Asia, Africa and Latin America.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/us/admiral-pushes-for-freer-hand-in-special-forces.html?scp=1&sq=Admiral%20Seeks%20Freer%20Hand%20in%20Deploymen t&st=cse

Herr Doktor General Strangelove

[Winehole23]

Banning filmmakers, lawyers, political activists, and scholars from entering your country out of fear of their criticisms is the behavior of an insecure, oppressive nation. It’s also natural behavior for political leaders eager to maintain an impenetrable wall of secrecy around their conduct.


Just to underscore how extreme is the Obama administration’s reflexive secrecy in such matters: yesterday, ABC News‘s Jake Tapper asked (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/drones-killing-civilians-and-green-on-blue-attacks-todays-qs-for-os-nsa-5172012/) National Security Advisor Tom Donilon whether the U.S. Government compensates the innocent victims it kills outside of Afghanistan, and Donilon simply refused to answer (“I’m just not going to go there”). There’s no legitimate reason that this information should be concealed, but for a government that views disclosure as inherently unnecessary, that is enamored of its own secrecy power for its own sake, and that is desperate to prevent its citizens from knowing what it is doing, this sort of imperious decree of secrecy is the natural course (for an even more egregious case, see this amazing summary (http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/ninth-circuit-presses-government-lawyer-watch-lists) from the ACLU’s Ben Wizner on how Obama DOJ lawyers defend the U.S. government’s secret, definitively Kafkaesque, unappealable no-fly and Terrorist watch lists).


That the U.S. is routinely killing innocent civilians in multiple Muslim countries is one of the great taboos in establishment media discourse. A film that documents the horrors and Terror brought by the U.S. to innocent people — and the way in which that behavior constantly strengthens the Terrorists, thus eternally perpetuating its own justification — threatens to subvert that taboo. So this filmmaker is simply kept out of the country, in Pakistan, where he can do little harm to U.S. propaganda (as usual, U.S. government claims of secrecy based on national security are primarily geared toward ensuring effective propaganda — of the American citizenry).

http://www.salon.com/2012/05/18/drone_filmmaker_denied_visa/singleton/

[Winehole23]

A drone strike in Yemen last week (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/13/world/middleeast/drone-strike-in-yemen-hits-wedding-convoy-killing-11.html) resembled so many others from recent years: A hail of missiles slammed into a convoy of trucks on a remote desert road, killing at least 12 people.




But this time the trucks were part of a wedding procession, making the customary journey from the groom’s house to the house of the bride.


The Dec. 12 strike by the Pentagon, launched from an American base in Djibouti, killed at least a half-dozen innocent people, according to a number of tribal leaders and witnesses, and provoked a storm of outrage in the country. It also illuminated the reality behind the talk surrounding the Obama administration’s new drone policy (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/24/us/politics/pivoting-from-a-war-footing-obama-acts-to-curtail-drones.html), which was announced with fanfare seven months ago.


Although American officials say they are being more careful before launching drone strikes in Yemen (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/yemen/index.html?inline=nyt-geo), Pakistan and elsewhere — and more transparent about the clandestine wars that President Obama (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index.html?inline=nyt-per) has embraced — the strike last week offers a window on the intelligence breakdowns and continuing liability of a targeted killing program that remains almost entirely secret.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/21/world/middleeast/yemen-deaths-raise-questions-on-new-drone-policy.html?_r=0

[boutons_deux]

wedding parties are a huge risk to American national security.

Will the fucker(s), assuming he/she/they have a smattering of a conscience, who pulled the trigger on the murderous drone strike sleep well?

And the sheeple bleat out plaintively: "Why Do They Hate Us?" :lol

[DeadlyDynasty]

It was an arranged marriage anyways, so what?

[mouse]

Wait till other nations start to use Drones on US Troops think about the fear they will have when troops think they are safe miles from combat listening to their iPods one minute and vaporized the next. I bet this country will immediately start to cry to the UN on rules of war.

[mouse]

It was an arranged marriage anyways, so what?



http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/3789795/rimshot-o.gif

[boutons_deux]

Al-Qaeda apologizes for deadly Yemen hospital attack

A deadly Al-Qaeda attack this month on a Yemeni defence ministry hospital was a mistake and the jihadist network is ready to pay blood money, a top jihadist commander has said.

The brazen daylight attack on the defence ministry complex on December 5 left 56 people dead, including patients and foreign medics from the Philippines, Germany, Vietnam and India.

Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) has already claimed responsibility for the attack and late Saturday its military chief said in an online video the assault on the hospital had not been authorised.

“The attack was on the ministry of defence, it was not on the hospital,” said AQAP military commander Qassem al-Rimi.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/22/al-qaeda-apologizes-for-deadly-yemen-hospital-attack/

[SupremeGuy]

Drones are the shit. Maybe if the fucking pedophile-worshiping cowards stopped trying to hide in civilian buildings and met us on the battlefield we wouldn't have to use them.

[tool box]

US Army Shoot Down Drones With Lasers

So far the U.S Army has never used lasers in combat but it now has a new target, drones!

For the first time last week, soldiers used a vehicle-mounted laser to successfully shoot down drones and incoming mortar shells. Terry Bauer, who is the program manager for the weapon named High Energy Laser Mobile Demonstrator, said that this new gun is not likely to be ready for combat until at least 2017.

http://techbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Military_laser_experiment-e1387560269876.jpg

This laser, which is cost-effective and more efficient, was built out of necessity for use in bases located in Iraq and Afghanistan, where soldiers are often under attack by rockets, mortars and other airborne weapons.

Designed by Boeing, the laser was created to be a beam that shoots from its turret and strikes incoming drones and other airborne weapons. Once the laser has hit the target, it then dissolves the device.

Tests carried out at the missile range in New Mexico proved how effective this laser can be, where over 23 days it incinerated 90 mortars and several drones.

Terry Bauer said of the tests, “Our first attempt to shoot down a UAV, it disabled it, and brought it down very quickly. We were very happy with the system’s performance.”

The advantage of this system is that lasers are a lot less expensive than conventional weapons. It removes the need for trucks to deliver mortars to the various bases, solving some the Army’s logistical problems.

“We’ve got to keep the vehicle fueled up, and that’s it,” Bauer said. “There’s no missile logistic trail that has to be brought with you.”

[boutons_deux]

"it then dissolves the device."

dissolves? :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

US Army Shoot Down Drones With Lasers

So far the U.S Army has never used lasers in combat but it now has a new target, drones!

For the first time last week, soldiers used a vehicle-mounted laser to successfully shoot down drones and incoming mortar shells. Terry Bauer, who is the program manager for the weapon named High Energy Laser Mobile Demonstrator, said that this new gun is not likely to be ready for combat until at least 2017.

http://techbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Military_laser_experiment-e1387560269876.jpg

This laser, which is cost-effective and more efficient, was built out of necessity for use in bases located in Iraq and Afghanistan, where soldiers are often under attack by rockets, mortars and other airborne weapons.

Designed by Boeing, the laser was created to be a beam that shoots from its turret and strikes incoming drones and other airborne weapons. Once the laser has hit the target, it then dissolves the device.

Tests carried out at the missile range in New Mexico proved how effective this laser can be, where over 23 days it incinerated 90 mortars and several drones.

Terry Bauer said of the tests, “Our first attempt to shoot down a UAV, it disabled it, and brought it down very quickly. We were very happy with the system’s performance.”

The advantage of this system is that lasers are a lot less expensive than conventional weapons. It removes the need for trucks to deliver mortars to the various bases, solving some the Army’s logistical problems.

“We’ve got to keep the vehicle fueled up, and that’s it,” Bauer said. “There’s no missile logistic trail that has to be brought with you.”

didnt the chinese use one of these to shoot down a satellite?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Drones are the shit. Maybe if the fucking pedophile-worshiping cowards stopped trying to hide in civilian buildings and met us on the battlefield we wouldn't have to use them.
This. Just send a machine instead of risking more American lives.

[Winehole23]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/04/23/statement-press-secretary

[boutons_deux]

Deep Support in Washington for C.I.A.’s Drone MissionsAbout once a month, staff members of the congressional intelligence committees drive across the Potomac River to C.I.A. headquarters in Langley, Va., and watch videos of people being blown up.

As part of the macabre ritual the staff members look at the footage of drone strikes in Pakistan and other countries and a sampling of the intelligence buttressing each strike, but not the internal C.I.A. cables discussing the attacks and their aftermath. The screenings have provided a veneer of congressional oversight and have led lawmakers to claim that the targeted killing program is subject to rigorous review, to defend it vigorously in public and to authorize its sizable budget each year.

That unwavering support from Capitol Hill is but one reason the C.I.A.’s killing missions are embedded in American warfare and unlikely to change significantly despite President Obama’s announcement on Thursday that a drone strikeaccidentally killed two innocent hostages (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/world/asia/2-qaeda-hostages-were-accidentally-killed-in-us-raid-white-house-says.html), an American (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/world/asia/warren-weinsteins-devotion-to-pakistan-was-part-of-a-lifetime-of-service.html) and an Italian. The program is under fire (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/world/asia/killing-of-americans-deepens-debate-over-proper-use-of-drone-strikes.html) like never before, but the White House continues to champion it, and C.I.A. officers who built the program more than a decade ago — some of whom also led the C.I.A. detention program that used torture in secret prisons — have ascended to the agency’s powerful senior ranks.

Although lawmakers insist that there is great accountability to the program, interviews with administration and congressional officials show that Congress holds the program to less careful scrutiny than many members assert. Top C.I.A. officials, who learned the importance of cultivating Congress after the resistance they ran into on the detention program, have dug in to protect the agency’s drone operations, frustrating a pledge by Mr. Obama two years ago to overhaul the program and pull it from the shadows.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/us/politics/deep-support-in-washington-for-cias-drone-missions.html?_r=1

The MIC, the Deep State make policy, and ALL politicians follow along or are totally ineffective in objecting.

[TeyshaBlue]

Hope. Change.

[Winehole23]

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain (R-Ariz.) said Sunday the accidental deaths of two innocent hostages killed during a U.S. drone strike in Pakistan were “obviously preventable.”

Speaking on CNN’s “State of the Union” on Sunday, McCain said “there was an obvious breakdown in intelligence.”


“It was obviously preventable, but the question then is do we continue these drone strikes and how important are they? It is clearly a subject for review by both Intelligence and Armed Services Committees and the entire Congress,” McCain said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/26/mccain-drone-strike_n_7146172.html

[boutons_deux]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/26/mccain-drone-strike_n_7146172.html

"Ba Ba Ba Bomb Iran.


You got me rockin' and a-rollin'
Rockin' and a-reelin'


Ba Ba Ba Bomb Iran."

Senile, emotionally unstable McLiar would be bombing Iran, or pushing Bishop Gecko to drone the entire M/E, but a (black) Dem Pres? "overreach, errors, mistakes, preventable" :lol

Deep Support in Washington for C.I.A.’s Drone Missions

[boutons_deux]

and the Murdoch repug WSJ piles on

Obama Kept Looser Rules for Drones in Pakistan

http://www.wsj.com/articles/obama-kept-looser-rules-for-drones-in-pakistan-1430092626

They've all gone SOFT ON TERRORISM! :lol

[Winehole23]

are you for Obama's drone wars or against them?

[boutons_deux]

are you for Obama's drone wars or against them?

my post had nothing to do with my position on drones, but about bloodthirsty warmongering neocon McLiar turning circumspect ONLY about Obama's drones, which are in fact controlled, both in policy and technically, by the CIA, not anybody's WH.

[Winehole23]

executive branch. who's the boss?

[Winehole23]

more collateral damage, allegedly:

http://www.newsweek.com/american-adam-gadahn-death-metal-fan-turned-al-qaeda-propagandist-killed-us-324465

[boutons_deux]

executive branch. who's the boss?

the Deep State

[Winehole23]

ah yes, very good. can you put that in a nutshell for posters who may not be familiar with the term?

[Winehole23]

Two Pakistani intelligence officials, both of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity, said they believe Weinstein, Lo Porto and Farouq were killed during a Jan. 15 drone strike in the Shawal Valley in North Waziristan, part of Pakistan’s tribal belt.http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-operation-kills-al-qaeda-hostages-including-american/2015/04/23/8e9fcaba-e9bd-11e4-aae1-d642717d8afa_story.html

[Winehole23]

papers leaked:

https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/

[Wild Cobra]

papers leaked:

https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/
Hmmm...

I'm not going to wade through that. A link to several links, that appear to be a CT site.

care to make some selections for us?

[Winehole23]

what's a CT site?

[Winehole23]

don't worry, WC. it's just journalism. it won't hurt you.

[DMC]

papers leaked:

https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/
The site is too click-baitish to interest me. The red fonts, the video gameish graphics.. seems a bit overdone for a "leak" site.

[Winehole23]

Allergic to reading? Your loss.

[TheSanityAnnex]

papers leaked:

https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/

Anything new from what was released previously?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253195&highlight=the+drone+papers

[boutons_deux]

'Post-traumatic stress disorder is higher in drone operators'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay-festival/11639746/Post-traumatic-stress-disorder-is-higher-in-drone-operators.html

[TheSanityAnnex]

'Post-traumatic stress disorder is higher in drone operators'


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay-festival/11639746/Post-traumatic-stress-disorder-is-higher-in-drone-operators.html

A buddy of mine (former fighter pilot multiple tours in Afghanistan) now flies drones out of Las Vegas said the guys who have no actual war experience get fucked in the head really quick.

[Winehole23]

Anything new from what was released previously?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253195&highlight=the+drone+papersit's a new leak. same themes, more granular detail.

you're free to read if you wish to be informed.

[Winehole23]

big boys can cut their own meat and feed themselves, right?