Occupy Wall Street evicted by police, judge overturns eviction

[Cry Havoc]

Police then failed to follow the court order.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/15/us/new-york-occupy-eviction/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

New York (CNN) -- A New York judge issued an order Tuesday morning allowing Occupy Wall Street protesters to return to Zuccotti Park, just hours after scores of police in riot gear ordered them out and tore down their tents.

The order from New York Supreme Court Judge Lucy Billings allows protesters to bring tents and other equipment back into the privately owned park where the now-global Occupy movement began.

Police, however, did not immediately let them in.
Soon after the ruling, a large group of demonstrators -- some of them apparently holding the court documents -- marched back to Zuccotti Park and presented the documents to police.

"We have a court order," the group chanted, as it wielded signs and circled the Lower Manhattan park. "You don't have authority over a judge," they yelled at police.
At least two people were seen jumping over a metal barricade before they were forcibly removed by authorities.
Video of the park showed security officers picking up one protester and tossing the individual over the fence.
City officials, meanwhile, said they had intended to allow protests to resume at the park, but added they would not allow demonstrators to set up tents or camp. The park will remain closed until officials sort out the legal situation, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said.
"We have an obligation to enforce the laws today, to make sure that everybody has access to the park so everybody can protest. That's the First Amendment and it's number one on our minds," he said. "We also have a similar, just as important obligation to protect the health and safety of the people in the park."
A hearing was scheduled for 11:30 a.m. ET to discuss the order.
The operation to clear the park began around 1 a.m., according to Bloomberg, with police handing out notices from the park's owner, Brookfield Office Properties, that said the continued occupation posed a health and fire hazard.
"You are required to immediately remove all property, including tents, sleeping bags and tarps, from Zuccotti Park," the note said. "That means you must remove the property now."

Police in riot gear then moved into the park, evicting hundreds of protesters.
Dozens of protesters who had camped out at the Lower Manhattan park since September 17 linked arms in defiance. Many chanted, "Whose park? Our park" and "You don't have to do this."

Police arrested more than 100 people, according to Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne.

New York City Council member Ydanis Rodriguez was among those arrested, after he rushed down to the park when he heard police were evicting protesters, his spokesman, David Segal, told CNN.
Medical crews treated three people for minor injuries, Bloomberg said. A police officer was also hospitalized after experiencing heart palpitations, he said.

Continuing concerns about public health and safety and the impact of the protests on nearby businesses, as well as the rights of others to use the park, prompted city officials to dismantle the camp, Bloomberg said. While the city has a long history of embracing free expression, circumstances at the park had become "intolerable," he explained.

The Occupy Wall Street website video-streamed the eviction under a banner headline that read, "NYPD is raiding Liberty Square." Liberty Square is the former name of the park.

While many protesters left without resisting, many others moved to the center of the park to an area known as the "kitchen." There, they built barricades with tables to keep police away.

The air was thick with smoke, which some protesters said was from tear gas that officers lobbed.
Others said officers took thousands of books from the camp's makeshift library and tossed them in Dumpsters.

"In an immense show of force, police have shown their presence," said Kanene Holder, a spokeswoman for the Occupy Wall Street movement. "I've seen how agitated the police are and some (are) pushing and shoving to remove us."
CNN could not confirm those accounts, as police kept journalists a block and a half away from the park during the raid.

However, CNN was able to obtain footage of piles of clothing, tents and tarps made by police as they cleaned out the park.
One protester told CNN he was awakened by "shouting and screaming" and wasn't sure what was going on. He said he didn't find out about the order to vacate until later.

By 4:30 a.m., the Lower Manhattan park was clear, with about 40 city crews in orange vests scraping up trash and pressure washing sidewalks.
After briefly reopening around 8 a.m., the park closed again as city officials learned of the court order. About 50 people who had been allowed back in were asked to leave.

Tuesday morning, several hundred protesters marched from Foley Square, where they had gathered after Zuccotti Park was cleared, to City Hall, chanting "We are unstoppable, another world is possible" and "This is what democracy looks like."
Bloomberg said Occupy demonstrators "must follow the park rules if they wished to continue to use it to protest."
"Protesters -- and the general public -- are welcome there to exercise their First Amendment rights, and otherwise enjoy the park, but will not be allowed to use tents, sleeping bags or tarps and, going forward, must follow all park rules," Bloomberg said.

"The law that created Zuccotti Park required that it be open for the public to enjoy for passive recreation 24 hours a day. Ever since the occupation began, that law has not been complied with, as the park has been taken over by protesters, making it unavailable to anyone else. ... The park was becoming a place where people came not to protest, but rather to break laws, and in some cases, to harm others," the mayor said.
Many protesters complied with the order to remove property, he said, but police and the city's Sanitation Department "assisted in removing any remaining tents and sleeping bags."

While most protesters were peaceful, "an unfortunate minority" were not, Bloomberg said, prompting reports of businesses being threatened and complaints regarding noise and unsanitary conditions.
Bloomberg said he and Brookfield Properties had become concerned about hazards posed by the encampment. "But make no mistake -- the final decision to act was mine," he said.

"Protesters have had two months to occupy the park with tents and sleeping bags," the mayor said. "Now they will have to occupy the space with the power of their arguments."
Many of the hundreds who left quickly reassembled two blocks away, chanting, "We are back together."
Jeremy Baratta, a 32-year-old Army veteran, called the health concerns that authorities cited a pretext.
"It was fairly clean," he said of the park. "No urine or fecal matter. There weren't things strewn about."
Since the protests began in September, the encampment at the park had taken on an air of permanency, with tents covering the public plaza from one end to the other. Protesters said they were there for the long haul.
Last month, Bloomberg had ordered protesters to vacate the park so Brookfield workers could clean it, but Brookfield changed its mind after it said it was "inundated" with calls.

On Monday, police in Oakland, California, conducted a similar raid when they moved in to the Occupy encampment at Frank Ogawa Plaza near City Hall and tore down tents. Officers made 33 arrests.
There, too, the park is reopen to protesters, but city officials will enforce a ban on camping in the park with an around-the-clock police presence.
The Tuesday morning eviction of Zuccotti Park comes ahead of plans by the protesters to "shut down" Wall Street on Thursday -- to mark the two-month anniversary of their movement.
Baratta, the Army veteran, said that the movement will continue whether or not the park serves as a base.
"You're going to have to deal with us," he said. "We're not going to show up for an hour and then leave. They're going to have to acknowledge us."

--------------


Just good old police, upholding our freedoms by disobeying a judge's direct order.

[mavs>spurs]

Yeah um, what the fuck happens next? They can't disobey a judge's order

[Cry Havoc]

Yeah um, what the fuck happens next? They can't disobey a judge's order

People were READING THE COURT ORDER to police, who completely ignored it. They should all be held in contempt of court and lose their jobs, IMO. If you or I disobeyed a judge's order we'd go to jail.

[mavs>spurs]

Yeah i'd like to see the police fired and put in jail, i'd like to see Bush and Cheney tried for war crimes, etc but it ain't gonna happen. Some people in this country are above the law, as are some corporations who pay no taxes etc, America is no longer a free democracy and we need to either revolt or get used to it because it's only gonna get worse imho.

[Cry Havoc]

http://www.metro.us/newyork/local/article/1024996--bloomberg-slammed-for-decision-to-evict-occupy-wall-street


It's not just protesters who are furious with Mayor Michael Bloomberg's decision to clear out Zuccotti Park today. Elected officials from Harlem to Brooklyn are calling the move "sneaky" and "legally questionable."

"Given the NYPD's sneaky tactics early on, I am not surprised by the NYPD's efforts to use the cloak of night as a shield for their brazen violation of the First Amendment," said Brooklyn Councilman Jumaane Williams, who was at Zuccotti Park this morning for the eviction. "I expected this would happen; I just did not know when."

Councilman Ydanis Rodriguez, who represents Northern Manhattan, was arrested early this morning near Zuccotti Park. He is currently being held in Central Booking, according to his communications director.

"Mayor Bloomberg made a needlessly provocative and legally questionable decision to clear Zuccotti Park in the dead of night," said Public Advocate Bill de Blasio this morning. "That some media and observers were prevented from monitoring the action is deeply troubling. "Provocations under cover of darkness only escalate tensions in a situation."

Bloomberg said the decision to evict the protesters was his and his alone, although he made the call after complaints from nearby business owners and Brookfield. Bloomberg was supposed to be in Washington, D.C. today but just moments ago announced he canceled the trip and will remain in New York City.

Bloomberg defended his decision earlier today:

“Some have argued to allow the protestors to stay in the park indefinitely – others have suggested we just wait for winter and hope the cold weather drove the protestors away – but inaction was not an option. I could not wait for someone in the park to get killed or to injure another first responder before acting," he said, referring to an EMT who was injured last week while removing a mentally ill man from the park. "We must never be afraid to insist on compliance with our laws."

[mavs>spurs]

speak now or forever hold your peace america

[DarrinS]

I bet the local residents, workers, and small business owners are happy to have the dregs of society removed from the park.

[DarrinS]

Up twinkles

[Agloco]

I bet the local residents, workers, and small business owners are happy to have the dregs of society removed from the park.

How do you think the judge who issued the order feels Darrin?

[Cry Havoc]

How do you think the judge who issued the order feels Darrin?

Darrin doesn't concern himself with needless burdens like "facts".

[LnGrrrR]

I bet the local residents, workers, and small business owners are happy to have the dregs of society removed from the park.

I bet there are local residents, workers, and small business owners that are protesting.

I bet there aren't any corporation owners there though. They're probably happy.

[Winehole23]

2IAJFCxAP_Y

[DarrinS]

Time for the Obamavilles to be shut down.

[Cry Havoc]

Bloomberg is happy. He acknowledged the order from the judge but said he hadn't been officially served so he has no compulsion to act.

What does that say about the power trip elected officials are on? It would be HILARIOUS if he was found in breach of order, but we know that won't happen.

[baseline bum]

I bet the local residents, workers, and small business owners are happy to have the dregs of society removed from the park.

Huh, the criminals are still there at the exchange?

[DarrinS]

People are probably tired of seeing stuff like this:

3pZlQBTsuOk

[Winehole23]

Time for the Obamavilles to be shut down.Why? Is there a time limit on free speech?

[Cry Havoc]

Time for the Obamavilles to be shut down.

:lmao

I can't handle your creativity, man. It's just too much.

[Cry Havoc]

People are probably tired of seeing stuff like this:

Who's tired, Darrin? Do you have a source, or are you just casting random aspersions with no factual backing?

[mavs>spurs]

The Occupy protesters are idiots but they have every right to be idiots as long as they aren't breaking any laws imho. Pigs just bein pigs nothing to see here.

[DarrinS]

The Occupy protesters are idiots but they have every right to be idiots as long as they aren't breaking any laws imho. Pigs just bein pigs nothing to see here.


That's the problem.

[DarrinS]

If they can stop the: shitting in the streets, sexual assaults, shootings, vandalism, assualting police, obstructing commerce, etc., I have no problem with their little camp out.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I bet the local residents, workers, and small business owners are happy to have the dregs of society removed from the park.

You are a 40 year old low level engineer. You are much, much closer to those that you consider 'the dregs of society' than you are to the corporate financiers that you so fervently defend.

You also are intellectually lazy which results in you blithely parroting your mailers instead of researching who the rank and file of the people at these protests are. Its sad too because your intentional deceptions about your sources indicate you know how reprehensible such laziness is.

Thing is that there are some homeless folks there but the OWS people do not just arbitrarily throw them out because of some unfounded notions of superiority as you like to espouse.

You aren't superior to shit code-breaker.

[Cry Havoc]

That's the problem.

If they're breaking so many laws, why did a judge overturn the eviction order, Darrin? Why are you claiming to know US law better than a federal judge?

[CosmicCowboy]

You are a 40 year old low level engineer. You are much, much closer to those that you consider 'the dregs of society' than you are to the corporate financiers that you so fervently defend.

You also are intellectually lazy which results in you blithely parroting your mailers instead of researching who the rank and file of the people at these protests are. Its sad too because your intentional deceptions about your sources indicate you know how reprehensible such laziness is.

Thing is that there are some homeless folks there but the OWS people do not just arbitrarily throw them out because of some unfounded notions of superiority as you like to espouse.

You aren't superior to shit code-breaker.

Unlike Fuzzy Lumpkins who lives with his parents and considers himself morally superior to those of us that work and pay taxes.

[elbamba]

If they're breaking so many laws, why did a judge overturn the eviction order, Darrin? Why are you claiming to know US law better than a federal judge?

It was a state supreme court judge, not federal. I beleive that in New York, that is like the appellate court in Texas. The highest NY state court is the Court of Appeals. Someone more familiar with the NY judicial system might chime in.

Bloomberg might have authority to overrule the judge's order if there is an emergency in place. I do not practice municipal law but I believe there are exceptions during state's of emergency. I think that if they made an argument under the health and safety codes being broken, that would probably be a call for the Govenor, not mayor.

All the same, my guess is that the city attorney is the one making calls to kick them out, not the mayor. At least, I would hope so.

[Cry Havoc]

It was a state supreme court judge, not federal. I beleive that in New York, that is like the appellate court in Texas. The highest NY state court is the Court of Appeals. Someone more familiar with the NY judicial system might chime in.

Bloomberg might have authority to overrule the judge's order if there is an emergency in place. I do not practice municipal law but I believe there are exceptions during state's of emergency. I think that if they made an argument under the health and safety codes being broken, that would probably be a call for the Govenor, not mayor.

All the same, my guess is that the city attorney is the one making calls to kick them out, not the mayor. At least, I would hope so.

My mistake. :P I'm fairly certain that after cleaning the park, there is no more emergency at that point, so the police should acquiesce to a judge's order.

Either way, a judge wouldn't make a ruling that runs contrary to law.

[LnGrrrR]

People are probably tired of seeing stuff like this:

3pZlQBTsuOk

I bet more people are tired of bailing out banks.

[CosmicCowboy]

This could be easily handled with a city ordinance prohibiting overnight camping in the park. It's done all the time...

[CosmicCowboy]

This could be easily handled with a city ordinance prohibiting overnight camping in the park. It's done all the time...

[Ignignokt]

If it's privately owned, and the owners want them evicted, then the judge is in the wrong. And i think the cops are upholding the rule of law. You can't subject clear objective law, and in this country we have property rights.

Freedom of speech ends where property rigths begin.

[boutons_deux]

"in this country we have property rights."

not any more. See MERS and fraudulent foreclosures

[CosmicCowboy]

If it's privately owned, and the owners want them evicted, then the judge is in the wrong. And i think the cops are upholding the rule of law. You can't subject clear objective law, and in this country we have property rights.

Freedom of speech ends where property rigths begin.

I get the impression this park is kind of a public/private partnership which muddies the water...probably "parking" the property until the economy improves and get property tax relief by granting public access..

[Stringer_Bell]

If it's privately owned, and the owners want them evicted, then the judge is in the wrong. And i think the cops are upholding the rule of law. You can't subject clear objective law, and in this country we have property rights.

Freedom of speech ends where property rigths begin.

So you'd agree that a private business, such as an eatery, could "evict" people based on race because it is their right as property owners?

[CosmicCowboy]

So you'd agree that a private business, such as an eatery, could "evict" people based on race because it is their right as property owners?

unnecessary straw man based on discrimination which was never stated.

If private property unencumbered by any other agreements they are within their legal right to post "no trespassing" signs and evict everyone.

[Cry Havoc]

If it's privately owned, and the owners want them evicted, then the judge is in the wrong. And i think the cops are upholding the rule of law. You can't subject clear objective law, and in this country we have property rights.

Freedom of speech ends where property rigths begin.

You need to actually know/read about the situation before spouting off.

The park is a privately owned park for PUBLIC use. The company who owns the park took over private management of the park under the stipulation that it would be available for unfettered 24/7 public use.

But no, we now have two people on Spurstalk who are more familiar with laws than a state supreme court judge. By all means, educate us, sirs.

[DarrinS]

So you'd agree that a private business, such as an eatery, could "evict" people based on race because it is their right as property owners?

Well, they can evict people (of any race), if they act like this:

d-rBD-LRJjM

[CosmicCowboy]

You need to actually know/read about the situation before spouting off.

The park is a privately owned park for PUBLIC use. The company who owns the park took over private management of the park under the stipulation that it would be available for unfettered 24/7 public use.

But no, we now have two people on Spurstalk who are more familiar with laws than a state supreme court judge. By all means, educate us, sirs.

like I said earlier, pass a no overnight camping ordinance.

problem solved

[DarrinS]

Doesn't sound like a lot of the public has been able to use the park in the past couple of months.

[Cry Havoc]

like I said earlier, pass a *limited freedom of speech amendment*

problem solved

Gotcha.

[cheguevara]

like I said earlier, pass a no overnight camping ordinance.

problem solved

I'm sure something like this needs to be voted by city council. Good luck with that

[CosmicCowboy]

Gotcha.

You don't got shit, pissant.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm sure something like this needs to be voted by city council. Good luck with that

You really think the city council isn't fed up with their shit?

[Cry Havoc]

http://i.imgur.com/LW31O.jpg

[cheguevara]

You really think the city council isn't fed up with their shit?

some might be. Some might actually support the shit.

[Cry Havoc]

some might be. Some might actually support the shit.

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2011/11/15/mayoral-hopefuls-blast-bloombergs-occupy-eviction/?mod=google_news_blog

Shhhhhh. Don't tell Cosmic.

[Agloco]

I bet the local residents, workers, and small business owners are happy to have the dregs of society removed from the park.


Doesn't sound like a lot of the public has been able to use the park in the past couple of months.

Sounds like the "dregs" have been able to use the park.

[LnGrrrR]

Doesn't sound like a lot of the public has been able to use the park in the past couple of months.

Let's determine the logical probability of that statement.

You're implying that the park is so full of protestors, that other people haven't been able to use it.

That implies that before the protestors used it, it was less full, ie. used by less people.

Given that the protestors are members of the public, we can safelty assume that the very fact that the protestors are using it 24/7, and the park is full, undermines your own hypothesis.

[LnGrrrR]

like I said earlier, pass a no overnight camping ordinance.

problem solved

So people can't camp overnight on private property now? I can't go in my backyard and set up a tent for my kids to have a "campout"?

[Cry Havoc]

So people can't camp overnight on private property now? I can't go in my backyard and set up a tent for my kids to have a "campout"?

The park is privately owned FOR public use. It was agreed when the company took ownership that the public would have 24/7 access to the park. It is not private property in the sense that they cannot say the public cannot use it. This is why even though it's "private" it was open to anyone prior to OWS.

[DarrinS]

Doesn't sound like a lot of the public has been able to use the park in the past couple of months.



Let's determine the logical probability of that statement.

You're implying that the park is so full of protestors, that other people haven't been able to use it.

That implies that before the protestors used it, it was less full, ie. used by less people.

Given that the protestors are members of the public, we can safelty assume that the very fact that the protestors are using it 24/7, and the park is full, undermines your own hypothesis.


This better?



Doesn't sound like a lot of the law-abiding public has been able to use the park in the past couple of months.

[CosmicCowboy]

So people can't camp overnight on private property now? I can't go in my backyard and set up a tent for my kids to have a "campout"?

You are smarter than that.

You are perfectly free to camp on YOUR private property.

[Stringer_Bell]

Well, they can evict people (of any race), if they act like this:

d-rBD-LRJjM

Those people are committing a violent crime...and not simply the crime of being black, unemployed, or a hippie college student that doesn't shower regularly.

[DarrinS]

Those people are committing a violent crime...and not simply the crime of being black, unemployed, or a hippie college student that doesn't shower regularly.

There haven't been any violent crimes at the "occupy" camps?

[Cry Havoc]

This better?

Since apparently you can't read:

The park is privately owned FOR public use. It was agreed when the company took ownership that the public would have 24/7 access to the park. It is not private property in the sense that they cannot say the public cannot use it. This is why even though it's "private" it was open to anyone prior to and during OWS.

[Cry Havoc]

There haven't been any violent crimes at the "occupy" camps?

So if a corporate executive (or a janitor even) commits a crime in a commercial building, we can pull everyone out of that building and arrest them on the basis of housing violent crime?

Got it. You make a ton of sense.

[DarrinS]

Since apparently you can't read:

The park is privately owned FOR public use. It was agreed when the company took ownership that the public would have 24/7 access to the park. It is not private property in the sense that they cannot say the public cannot use it. This is why even though it's "private" it was open to anyone prior to and during OWS.


Nice font

[LnGrrrR]

The park is privately owned FOR public use. It was agreed when the company took ownership that the public would have 24/7 access to the park. It is not private property in the sense that they cannot say the public cannot use it. This is why even though it's "private" it was open to anyone prior to OWS.

I was using that statement as a rebuttal to CC's idea that they could create an ordinance that barred people from camping overnight on private property.

[DarrinS]

So if a corporate executive (or a janitor even) commits a crime in a commercial building, we can pull everyone out of that building and arrest them on the basis of housing violent crime?

Got it. You make a ton of sense.


Can riot police clear public areas of an unruly mob?

[LnGrrrR]

You are smarter than that.

You are perfectly free to camp on YOUR private property.

So my kid can't go over a friend's house and go camping on his property?

[LnGrrrR]

This better?

How many of the Occupy movement people have committed crimes? Do you have a percentage?

[Stringer_Bell]

There haven't been any violent crimes at the "occupy" camps?

From what the MSM tells me, only the cops are getting violent.

[Cry Havoc]

Can riot police clear public areas of an unruly mob?

One or two people committing a crime while 99.99% of the people in attendance following laws constitutes an unruly mob? How is that different from one person in an office building breaking a law?

[Wild Cobra]

Interesting.

I only skimmed this thread, but it appears the Judge will be heading for a Bar hearing, or whatever disciplinary hearings judges go to.

The owner of the park has the right to control his property, and wanted the eviction. It is a private park, not public.

Is the agreement written in stone for 24/7 access?

[Winehole23]

:rollin

[DarrinS]

One or two people committing a crime while 99.99% of the people in attendance following laws constitutes an unruly mob? How is that different from one person in an office building breaking a law?


Srsly?

[Winehole23]

Nitpicking.

Based on the actions of a few you've characterized the entire crowd as an unruly lawbreaking mob. That much is accurate, Darrin.

[Cry Havoc]

Srsly?

Do you have a source or statistics for what you're saying? Otherwise, the comparison is valid.

Way to ignore the other comments/questions in the thread though.

[Th'Pusher]

Looks like the judge ruled the city had the right to enforce the no camping rules: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/266875-judge-rules-in-favor-of-city.html

[Th'Pusher]

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/15/updates-on-the-clearing-of-zuccotti-park/?hp

[DarrinS]

Nitpicking.

Based on the actions of a few you've characterized the entire crowd as an unruly lawbreaking mob. That much is accurate, Darrin.


I don't think ALL of them are criminals. But the thing about left-wing protests -- they tend to attract left-wing nuts.


OODuhQ1p6qA

[Winehole23]

Arrest the vandals, then. No need to sweep the whole crowd off the street. Peaceful protesters deserve protection from the criminal actions of a few as much as anyone else.

[Agloco]

Nice font

How about the meaning of the message Darrin? Do you have some deep insights on that as well?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Unlike Fuzzy Lumpkins who lives with his parents and considers himself morally superior to those of us that work and pay taxes.

You can make up shit about me all you want. I definitely think that I am more ethically consistent than you as i do not rail against the use of taxes and then do what you specifically find fault in by getting a fucking golf cart.

Its typical of your generation. Hypocrisy and greed.

Morality denotes that there is some arbiter of good and I do not buy that at all. Keep reaching though bucko.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You really think the city council isn't fed up with their shit?

You should pay attention to what the NYC councilpeople are actually saying. You obviously have no clue.

[CosmicCowboy]

You should pay attention to what the NYC councilpeople are actually saying. You obviously have no clue.

you are the posterboy for clueless.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

you are the posterboy for clueless.

Really? instead of looking for the union boogeyman in every political move I look for sources and quotes lets try this:

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/speaker-quinn-council-occupy-wall-street-arrests-20111115-akd

I even used Fox as a source because you are comfortable with them as a news outlet.


New York City Council Speaker Christine Quinn expressed concern over reports of how the NYPD's arrested of hundreds of Occupy Wall Street protesters, members of the news media, and a college in the council in and near Zuccotti Park on Tuesday.

"As I have said from the very beginning, we must balance the protesters' First Amendment rights with the rights of the residents, workers, and businesses of Lower Manhattan. We must protect the protestors' right to peaceful assembly and the local community's right to a safe and secure neighborhood," Quinn said in a statement. "Today's actions include reports of excessive force by the NYPD, and reports of infringement of the rights of the press. If these reports are true, these actions are unacceptable. The Council will seek answers to questions surrounding these reports and clarifying information regarding the arrest and treatment of Council Member Ydanis Rodriguez."

Rodriguez, who represents parts of Upper Manhattan, was among those arrested and may have suffered an injury. Councilman Jumaane Williams said he witnessed Rodriguez's arrest and saw blood on his colleague's forehead.

But Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said that to the best of his knowledge Rodriguez did not claim to be hurt, the AP reported.

I have a clue on the specifics. You form opinions based on preconceived bias and want. So continue to create stories in your head with incomplete or just false bullshit and I will continue to point it out.

Prominent NYC Council members are very vocal advocates of the movement. Thats why Bloomberg hasn't been able to do what he really wants to do because they call him on it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Really? instead of looking for the union boogeyman in every political move I look for sources and quotes lets try this:

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/speaker-quinn-council-occupy-wall-street-arrests-20111115-akd

I even used Fox as a source because you are comfortable with them as a news outlet.



I have a clue on the specifics. You form opinions based on preconceived bias and want. So continue to create stories in your head with incomplete or just false bullshit and I will continue to point it out.

Prominent NYC Council members are very vocal advocates of the movement. Thats why Bloomberg hasn't been able to do what he really wants to do because they call him on it.

No city council is unanimous, dumbass.

Put it to a vote.

Then let the people vote out the idiots next election.

I never said Bloomberg had unanimous support from the council. I am willing to bet he has majority support, though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No city council is unanimous, dumbass.

Put it to a vote.

Then let the people vote out the idiots next election.

I never said Bloomberg had unanimous support from the council. I am willing to bet he has majority support, though.

The bait and switch isn't going to work asshole. You said they were sick of the protestors. You were speaking of them as an individual. I just cited the first article on a 'NYC council occupy' google search to demonstrate you were not only wrong but once again inserting your preconceived notions as truth.

Put what to a vote? Some ordinance that random Texan wants? GMFB.

[CosmicCowboy]

The bait and switch isn't going to work asshole. You said they were sick of the protestors. You were speaking of them as an individual. I just cited the first article on a 'NYC council occupy' google search to demonstrate you were not only wrong but once again inserting your preconceived notions as truth.

Put what to a vote? Some ordinance that random Texan wants? GMFB.

idiot

I wasn't the one that evicted them from the park. There obviously must be a few in New York that are tired of the occupiers shit.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

idiot

I wasn't the one that evicted them from the park. There obviously must be a few in New York that are tired of the occupiers shit.

Obviously? Is this really how you form opinions? Just be fucking intellectually lazy and make shit up as you would like for it to be and pretend thats what really is going on?

I would rather just not have a position personally. Its irresponsible.

[DarrinS]

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/terrorist_n_patriot1.jpg

[Cry Havoc]

Obviously? Is this really how you form opinions? Just be fucking intellectually lazy and make shit up as you would like for it to be and pretend thats what really is going on?

I would rather just not have a position personally. Its irresponsible.

That pretty much encapsulates 90% of the conservatives on this board, honestly.

[Cry Havoc]

Who has ever called the tea party terrorists, Darrin?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Who has ever called the tea party terrorists, Darrin?

i think it would be better for all of us if Darrin would just offer to send his chain emails to a list rather than 'share' them with all of us. Pigeonholing and lies.

[DarrinS]

Who has ever called the tea party terrorists, Darrin?

Joe Biden

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Joe Biden

So it was a democrat and not the media like your mailer was trying to tell us?

[LnGrrrR]

The owner of the park has the right to control his property, and wanted the eviction. It is a private park, not public.

Is the agreement written in stone for 24/7 access?

If the owner of the property wants the protestors gone, I'd lean towards forcing them out. But as WC said, it depends on how the contract is written.

[DarrinS]

p4LbJZLcjiM

[FuzzyLumpkins]

p4LbJZLcjiM

So you post a Fox News youtube video......

You are a satire of yourself.

[Cry Havoc]

This just in: DarrinS is unable to comprehend metaphors, and feels that 3 individuals = THE MEDIA. Very unsurprising.

[Ignignokt]

So you'd agree that a private business, such as an eatery, could "evict" people based on race because it is their right as property owners?

Yes.

You have the moral ethical right to do what you wish with your own property.

[Cry Havoc]

Yes.

You have the moral ethical right to do what you wish with your own property.

That's strange. I could swear that I don't see any "No blacks" signs up in restaurants or department stores anymore.

So you're saying that I can own a business and openly discriminate against other races? Really? That's what you're arguing?

[Ignignokt]

The park is privately owned FOR public use. It was agreed when the company took ownership that the public would have 24/7 access to the park. It is not private property in the sense that they cannot say the public cannot use it. This is why even though it's "private" it was open to anyone prior to OWS.

i'm pretty sure private/public has a purpose for which to help with access and acts sort of as an easement. That doesn't mean that the public can squat and damage property.

[DarrinS]

3mNr6lWMMXI

[FuzzyLumpkins]

i'm pretty sure private/public has a purpose for which to help with access and acts sort of as an easement. That doesn't mean that the public can squat and damage property.

Thats now what you said. You gave some moral imperative to holding property. That is clearly not the case.

[CosmicCowboy]

That's strange. I could swear that I don't see any "No blacks" signs up in restaurants or department stores anymore.

So you're saying that I can own a business and openly discriminate against other races? Really? That's what you're arguing?

again a straw man.

Get with the program.

There are laws against discrimination. no one is arguing that point.

On the other hand, if an owner of private property posts it for no trespassing there are laws that side with the landowner and the trespasser is breaking the law.

[CosmicCowboy]

BTW, the judge ruled they can't camp in the park. The first amendment doesn't say anything about the right to camp.

[Nbadan]

:lol at Judges thinking that they can stop this movement with a court-order....


OWS is as inevitable as capatilism....get over it....the movement is gonna get bigger and it won't be in just parks for long anyway...by next summer, it will occupy all of wall street....

[CosmicCowboy]

:lol at Judges thinking that they can stop this movement with a court-order....


OWS is as inevitable as capatilism....get over it....the movement is gonna get bigger and it won't be in just parks for long anyway...by next summer, it will occupy all of wall street....

:lmao

i hope the rest of the people that use your computer have ready access to hand sanitizer because I get the feeling you just jizzed all over your keyboard with that post.

[Th'Pusher]

again a straw man.

Get with the program.

There are laws against discrimination. no one is arguing that point.

On the other hand, if an owner of private property posts it for no trespassing there are laws that side with the landowner and the trespasser is breaking the law.

Actually, that is exactly the point Ignignokt is arguing


So you'd agree that a private business, such as an eatery, could "evict" people based on race because it is their right as property owners?


Yes.

You have the moral ethical right to do what you wish with your own property.

[Th'Pusher]

BTW, the judge ruled they can't camp in the park. The first amendment doesn't say anything about the right to camp.

I'm pretty sure I covered this 30 posts ago.

[CosmicCowboy]

The whole discrimination straw man was a digression from the OWS discussion anyway...

The first amendment gives you the right right to demonstrate in public spaces but it doesn't give you the right to homestead them.

[Th'Pusher]

The whole discrimination straw man was a digression from the OWS discussion anyway...

I agree. Just pointing out there was one hyper-aggressive internet douche-bag that was actually arguing for that ridiculous point.

[Cry Havoc]

Actually, that is exactly the point Ignignokt is arguing


The whole discrimination straw man was a digression from the OWS discussion anyway...

The first amendment gives you the right right to demonstrate in public spaces but it doesn't give you the right to homestead them.

CC speak for, "I'm wrong, or I'm unable to read and interpret basic messages."

It's cool CC, you can contradict exactly what someone else is saying and then try to backpedal by saying it was a tangent. :lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

CC speak for, "I'm wrong, or I'm unable to read and interpret basic messages."

It's cool CC, you can contradict exactly what someone else is saying and then try to backpedal by saying it was a tangent. :lmao

You are such a stupid argumentative little bitch. I never fell for your ridiculous straw man. No back pedaling here.

[Cry Havoc]

So you'd agree that a private business, such as an eatery, could "evict" people based on race because it is their right as property owners?


Yes.

You have the moral ethical right to do what you wish with your own property.


There are laws against discrimination. no one is arguing that point.

You aren't backpedaling. Nope. You just have a problem sharing your opinion before you actually read the thread, instead you cast aspersions and call people out for misrepresenting positions others have taken, and attacking/dismissing them based on those responses.

[CosmicCowboy]

I set your stupid straw man on fire.

Give it up, bitch.

[Spurminator]

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/terrorist_n_patriot1.jpg

:lmao That seems like a very reasonable and even-handed cartoon. Good find. I especially like how they depicted the typical member of each movement.

I bet you'd like this guy's cartoons too. You'll enjoy them for altogether different reasons than people with any amount of intelligence, but you'll enjoy them nonetheless.

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/26/26493/KellyGelato_jpg_630x1200_upscale_q85.jpg

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/26/26434/KellyMichelleObama_jpg_630x1200_upscale_q85.jpg

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/26/26170/KellyPowerWalkers_jpg_630x1200_upscale_q85.jpg

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/26/26241/KellyWaterSmartPhones_jpg_630x1200_upscale_q85.jpg

Oh and here's a perfect one for you...

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/26/26568/KellyGreenBulbs_jpg_630x1200_upscale_q85.jpg

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I set your stupid straw man on fire.

Give it up, bitch.

Its not a strawman. You just do not think of the logical extensions of what was said.

Ig said that it was his moral right to do with his property as he will.

Thats called a blanket statement wherein any action that a man might will on his own property is fair game. As such things like murder or discrimination can be brought up.

Its like saying that you love green things but call it a strawman when someone points out you don't like grass.

[mavs>spurs]

I was under the impression that it wasn't private anymore, they were making it public in order to get out of taxes or something?

[Nbadan]

Why am I not surprised?


Occupy' crackdowns coordinated with federal law enforcement officials
Rick Ellis
Minneapolis Top News Examiner
November 15,2011


Over the past ten days, more than a dozen cities have moved to evict "Occupy" protesters from city parks and other public spaces. As was the case in last night's move in New York City, each of the police actions shares a number of characteristics. And according to one Justice official, each of those actions was coordinated with help from Homeland Security, the FBI and other federal police agencies.

The official, who spoke on background to me late Monday evening, said that while local police agencies had received tactical and planning advice from national agencies, the ultimate decision on how each jurisdiction handles the Occupy protests ultimately rests with local law enforcement.

According to this official, in several recent conference calls and briefings, local police agencies were advised to seek a legal reason to evict residents of tent cities, focusing on zoning laws and existing curfew rules. Agencies were also advised to demonstrate a massive show of police force, including large numbers in riot gear. In particular, the FBI reportedly advised on press relations, with one presentation suggesting that any moves to evict protesters be coordinated for a time when the press was the least likely to be present. The FBI has so far failed to respond to requests for an official response, and of the 14 local police agencies contacted in the past 24 hours, all have declined to respond to questions on this issue.

But in a recent interview with the BBC," Oakland Mayor Jean Quan mentioned she was on a conference call just before the recent wave of crackdowns began.

Examiner (http://www.examiner.com/top-news-in-minneapolis/were-occupy-crackdowns-aided-by-federal-law-enforcement-agencies)

Not surprising....these demonstrations are making the 1% very uncomfortable and they are sending in their private police force to disrupt the demonstrations...
....won't work...

[ChumpDumper]

Where are you demonstrating, dan?

[Nbadan]

Well, the only thing left to be determined is when do the police slap on the SS patches?

http://i42.tinypic.com/kbyaf6.jpg

[Nbadan]

This guy had a busy day with all those protestors resisting arrest..

http://i39.tinypic.com/20ggq2t.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

Where are you in these pictures?

[Winehole23]

Then came the middle-of-the-night raid on Tuesday in New York. The police went in with little notice, and barred journalists from the scene. According to the Washington Post, NYPD helicopters even refused to allow CBS News helicopters to film from above. A reporter from the New York Post (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/11/10/occupy-wall-street-the-new-york-post-s-bogus-coverage.html)—easily the paper most sympathetic to the cops—was roughed up; he told the New York Times’ Brian Stelter that the violence was “completely deliberate.” At least half a dozen journalists were arrested, including reporters from the New York Daily News and the Associated Press. During a press conference in New York’s Foley Square on Tuesday afternoon, Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer said he’d never seen such an attack on journalists trying to cover a demonstration in all his years in politics.

Because there were so few journalistic witnesses, it’s hard to get a read on just how much violence the police used. But amateur video from the confrontation is harrowing, suggesting that serious force was deployed against the demonstrators. New York City Councilman Ydanis Rodriguez was injured in the raid, and was still bleeding from the head when he was arrested and jailed. As of Tuesday afternoon, his lawyers had still been unable to see him, which one of them, Andrew Stoll, said was unprecedented in his dealings with One Police Plaza. “http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/11/15/harsh-nypd-action-may-reinvigorate-occupy-wall-street-movement.html

[MannyIsGod]

The way the police are moving in just strikes me as beyond shady and down right fucked up. Don't like this one bit.

[CosmicCowboy]

Good.

Maybe next time they tell them to leave they will leave. The journalists and the councilman were just as guilty as the other protesters and had no right to expect anything else than to be ejected forcefully.

[MannyIsGod]

Journalists should have a right to be there to cover what is going on. Why was the helicopter not allowed to fly? Why are lawyers not being given access to their clients?

All of this happening in the place where the local government and police could easily be swayed by the financial sector since - after all - they're local. And you say good?

Mmmk.

[DarrinS]

Sympathy

ilq_66LnRaw&hl

[DarrinS]

Before and after photos

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/zuccotti-park-before-after-eviction

[Winehole23]

Good.

Maybe next time they tell them to leave they will leave. The journalists and the councilman were just as guilty as the other protesters and had no right to expect anything else than to be ejected forcefully.Obedience to police power trumps expression and freedom.

Nice to know where you come down on this, CC. :tu

[Winehole23]

Nice to know you endorse the violence too.

[Cry Havoc]

Obedience to police power trumps expression and freedom.

Nice to know where you come down on this, CC. :tu


Nice to know you endorse the violence too.

Are you surprised?

[Winehole23]

Not really. Open sadism and blind apologies for force are typical signifiers of conservative bona fides, sadly.

[Cry Havoc]

Not really. Open sadism and blind apologies for force are typical signifiers of conservative bona fides, sadly.

It's amazing how they're all for business and anti-government until the latter starts busting heads. Then, they can do no wrong!

[Cry Havoc]

http://i.imgur.com/2yizP.jpg

The scourge of society. 84 year old women pose a serious threat to police and must be pepper sprayed to prevent them from harming anyone.

[leemajors]

http://i.imgur.com/2yizP.jpg

The scourge of society. 84 year old women pose a serious threat to police and must be pepper sprayed to prevent them from harming anyone.

She was getting oldness all over everyone.

She shouldn't have been there, etc.

[CosmicCowboy]

Dumbasses. They let OWS shit all over that park for two months. OWS had plenty of time for their "free expression". They told OWS it was time to leave and what would happen if they didn't leave. They didn't leave and it happened.

Yeah, I have NO sympathy for them.

[vy65]

Dumbasses. They let OWS shit all over that park for two months. OWS had plenty of time for their "free expression". They told OWS it was time to leave and what would happen if they didn't leave. They didn't leave and it happened.

Yeah, I have NO sympathy for them.

There isn't an expiration date on free expression. That's kinda what makes it, you know, free.

[CosmicCowboy]

There isn't an expiration date on free expression. That's kinda what makes it, you know, free.

They are still completely free to express their angst. They just can't camp overnight. They can always call themselves VWS (visiting wall street)

[leemajors]

Dumbasses. They let OWS shit all over that park for two months. OWS had plenty of time for their "free expression". They told OWS it was time to leave and what would happen if they didn't leave. They didn't leave and it happened.

Yeah, I have NO sympathy for them.

No one is terribly interested in your sadistic ramblings.

[vy65]

They are still completely free to express their angst. They just can't camp overnight. They can always call themselves VWS (visiting wall street)

They're barred from entering the park. If they crowd around the streets, the police can remove them for obstructing traffic.

One of the ways you silence a message is by restricting the mediums through which it can be expressed.

I disagree with a bunch of the OWS movement. But even I recognize that a) they have a right to express their political views and b) NYPD, in contravention of a court order is illegally restricting that expression.

[vy65]

It was a state supreme court judge, not federal. I beleive that in New York, that is like the appellate court in Texas. The highest NY state court is the Court of Appeals. Someone more familiar with the NY judicial system might chime in.

Just a FYI, the Supreme Court of New York is the trial court - much like a Texas District or County Court. It isn't New York's intermediate appellate court. That's called the Appellate Division. You're right that the highest NY court is called the Court of Appeals.

[Cry Havoc]

Dumbasses. They let OWS shit all over that park for two months. OWS had plenty of time for their "free expression". They told OWS it was time to leave and what would happen if they didn't leave. They didn't leave and it happened.

Yeah, I have NO sympathy for them.

Why not just shoot them all in the head with a glock and be done with the problem, right CC? Why don't you just say what you're thinking instead of pussyfooting around it?

[vy65]

Why not just shoot them all in the head with a glock and be done with the problem, right CC? Why don't you just say what you're thinking instead of pussyfooting around it?

lol federal judge

[CosmicCowboy]

poor babies. No way to express themselves. *sigh*

[LnGrrrR]

poor babies. No way to express themselves. *sigh*

Really? You're going to pooh-pooh the freedom of speech and the right to peacefully assemble? Are you seriously just dismissing that?

[DarrinS]

Really? You're going to pooh-pooh the freedom of speech and the right to peacefully assemble? Are you seriously just dismissing that?

Peaceful, it is not.

[CosmicCowboy]

Really? You're going to pooh-pooh the freedom of speech and the right to peacefully assemble? Are you seriously just dismissing that?

You really should get your facts straight. Not letting them pitch tents or use generators is not infringing on their right of free speech.

[coyotes_geek]

Why not just shoot them all in the head with a glock and be done with the problem, right CC?

Reduce unemployment while simultaneously lessening our nation's carbon footprint? Sounds like a win-win idea!

[CosmicCowboy]

They're barred from entering the park. If they crowd around the streets, the police can remove them for obstructing traffic.

One of the ways you silence a message is by restricting the mediums through which it can be expressed.

I disagree with a bunch of the OWS movement. But even I recognize that a) they have a right to express their political views and b) NYPD, in contravention of a court order is illegally restricting that expression.

Like I said, get your facts straight. They are not barred from using the park. They are barred from camping there.

[vy65]

You really should get your facts straight. Not letting them pitch tents or use generators is not infringing on their right of free speech.

This is absolutely correct.

[CosmicCowboy]

he tents are gone but the protest lives on.

Occupy Wall Street demonstrators vowed to return in force to Zuccotti Park Wednesday and regroup their fractured movement as they faced the first full day since their eviction from Zuccotti Park.

A handful of campaigners headed to a Department of Sanitation depot on the upper West Side at 8 a.m. in an attempt to reclaim their belongings seized during the overnight police raid.

Others woke from spending the night at a nearby church, relieved to have had a roof over their heads, and determined to carry on their fight for greater social justice and financial reform.

“Right now we’re pretty scattered, but there are a lot of people thinking of the long-term plan,” said Mike Esperson, 22, from Queens, who has campaigned for Occupy Wall Street since week one.

“I think it’s definitely going to change the game plan ... but it’s not going to go away.”

Members of the Occupy Wall Street drumming circle and “People’s Library” were among the first to arrive at the city facility on W. 56th St. between 11th and 12th Aves. to ask for their possessions back.

They entered the building to find a chaotic mass of confiscated items separated into three piles: one for shoes, clothes and sleeping bags; another for tarps and tents; and a third for miscellaneous items.

A big storage bin near a table at the front entrance was also filled with wallets and a handful of passports, one observer said.

“I’m here to pick up our books,” said librarian Betsy Fagin.

“We had between 4,000 and 5,000 books and have no idea how many are actually upstairs.”

As she entered the depot, she held a catalog in her hands that logged the title of every book donated to the movement. She exited with a cart load of literature.

When asked if all the titles were there she curtly replied: “Not by a long shot.”

Musicians from Occupy Wall Street’s drumming circle “Pulse” also arrived to pick up what they claimed were $3,500 worth of instruments.

Another man came to pick up his bicycle generator equipment, which had been installed to give power to Zuccotti Park after the NYPD and FDNY seized the movement’s generators two weeks ago.

“I’m really hoping that our bikes, our bike generators, our batteries and our tools will be up there,” said mechanical engineer Patrick Pasco, 24.

“If so it’s gonna be tricky getting everything out of here because they’re not allowing vehicles here.”

The Sanitation Department said the depot will be open from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. until Friday, and anyone collecting items must fill out a claim form and show valid photo ID.

The NYPD allowed the jubilant protesters back into the park shortly before 6 p.m. Tuesday, but after celebratory scenes and a boisterous general assembly meeting, only a few dozen people remained overnight.

Police confiscated blankets, pillows and a backpack from a small number of people who tried to smuggle them into the plaza, and woke up anyone who attempted to sleep on the marble benches.

Judson Memorial Church near Washington Square Park turned itself into a shelter Tuesday night, and took in about 50 people.

However, it said this was only a temporary measure for the next three nights.

“I’m just happy I got some sleep,” said Requiem King, 26, from Boston.

“At least it was somewhere warm and dry where we could sleep.”

Dozens of faith leaders plans to join the demonstrators for a candlelight vigil at Judson Memorial Church at 5:30 p.m. Wednesday to show their solidarity with Occupy Wall Street and demand Mayor Bloomberg allow them to re-establish their camp.

It is likely to carry little sway given that Justice Michael Stallman upheld the city’s argument that the group had no First Amendment right to camp in the park, despite agreeing they were allowed to protest there.




Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/occupy-wall-street-protesters-return-zuccotti-park-tents-head-depot-reclaim-belongings-article-1.978485#ixzz1dtttQL63

[vy65]

Like I said, get your facts straight. They are not barred from using the park. They are barred from camping there.


Dumbasses. They let OWS shit all over that park for two months. OWS had plenty of time for their "free expression". They told OWS it was time to leave and what would happen if they didn't leave. They didn't leave and it happened.

Yeah, I have NO sympathy for them.

And you shouldn't be hyperbolic. The underlined portion pretty clearly says its ok for OWS to be booted out of the park.

[CosmicCowboy]

And you shouldn't be hyperbolic. The underlined portion pretty clearly says its ok for OWS to be booted out of the park.

They booted them out, cleared up the tent city, powerwashed the shit out of the park and then let them back in.

hyperbolic?

Pot, meet Kettle.

[vy65]

In places which, by long tradition or by government fiat, have been devoted to assembly and debate, the rights of the State to limit expressive activity are sharply circumscribed. At one end of the spectrum are streets and parks, which

"have immemorially been held in trust for the use of the public and, time out of mind, have been used for purposes of assembly, communicating thoughts between citizens, and discussing public questions."

Hague v. CIO, 307 U. S. 496, 307 U. S. 515 (1939). In these quintessential public forums, the government may not prohibit all communicative activity. For the State to enforce a content-based exclusion, it must show that its regulation is necessary to serve a compelling state interest and that it is narrowly drawn to achieve that end. Carey v. Brown, 447 U. S. 455, 447 U. S. 461 (1980). The State may also enforce regulations of the time, place, and manner of expression which are content-neutral, are narrowly tailored to serve a significant government interest, and leave open ample alternative channels of communication. United States Postal Service v. Council of Greenburgh Civic Assns., 453 U. S. 114, 453 U. S. 132 (1981); Consolidated Edison Co. v. Public Service Comm'n, 447 U. S. 530, 447 U. S. 535-536 (1980); Grayned v. City of Rockford, supra, at 408 U. S. 115; Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U. S. 296 (1940); Schneider v. State, 308 U. S. 147 (1939).

PERRY EDUC. ASS'N V. PERRY EDUCATORS' ASS'N, 460 U. S. 37 (1983)

The state would have to show that the tent/tarp/overnight camping restriction is a) narrowly tailored to serve the government's interest and b) leaves open some alternative channel of commmunication.

[vy65]

They booted them out, cleared up the tent city, powerwashed the shit out of the park and then let them back in.

hyperbolic?

Pot, meet Kettle.


Dumbasses. They let OWS shit all over that park for two months. OWS had plenty of time for their "free expression". They told OWS it was time to leave and what would happen if they didn't leave. They didn't leave and it happened.

Yeah, I have NO sympathy for them.

How's that quote not suggesting complete removal of OWS from the park is legitimate?

You've since changed your argument to a position that I agree with. But your initial claim was hyperbolic.

[CosmicCowboy]

How's that quote not suggesting complete removal of OWS from the park is legitimate?

You've since changed your argument to a position that I agree with. But your initial claim was hyperbolic.

They had to get them out to clean it up. They wouldn't leave so they had to remove them by force. They let them right back in after they cleaned the park up and restored sanitary conditions. What part of that don't you understand? Why are you determined to argue such a stupid point that is totally irrelevant?

[vy65]

Do you understand that you were hyperbolic and wrong and people here rightly jumped on you for that? Why are you determined to argue such a stupid point that is totally irrelevant?

[vy65]

lol arguing with the one person who agrees with you.

[CosmicCowboy]

Do you understand that you were hyperbolic and wrong and people here rightly jumped on you for that? Why are you determined to argue such a stupid point that is totally irrelevant?

I refuse to continue to refute this idiotic line of non-reasoning. I really don't give a fuck what you think I said or meant. fucking idiots.

[boutons_deux]

Occupiers Occupied: Hijacking the First Amendment

A funny thing happened to the First Amendment on its way to the public forum. According to the Supreme Court, money is now speech and corporations are now people. But when real people without money assemble to express their dissatisfaction with the political consequences of this, they're treated as public nuisances and evicted.

Wall Street is punishing Democrats for enacting the Dodd-Frank financial reform legislation (weak as it is) by shifting its money to Republicans. The Koch brothers' petrochemical empire has financed, among many other things, candidates who will vote against environmental protection.

When it comes to making views known, picketing is no competition for big money .

http://www.readersupportednews.org/opinion2/275-42/8434-occupiers-occupied-hijacking-the-first-amendment

[Agloco]

They just can't camp overnight.

:(

[FuzzyLumpkins]

lol arguing with the one person who agrees with you.

Its because he formed his opinion at the beginning and then started getting the facts of the situation after. He then proceeds to start calling people idiots as if his methods are not transparent.

He still hasn't gotten your points about the hierarchy of the NY courts. It will be entertaining to watch him vacillate there as well.

[Cry Havoc]

:lol

[LnGrrrR]

You really should get your facts straight. Not letting them pitch tents or use generators is not infringing on their right of free speech.

Edit: Reread the thread and understood what you were saying. I'm fine with them limiting some of the items that can go in the park, if it's backed up by legislation.

[LnGrrrR]

Peaceful, it is not.

You somehow missed my last question to you DarrinS. What percentage of the OWS protestors are breaking the law?

[DarrinS]

You somehow missed my last question to you DarrinS. What percentage of the OWS protestors are breaking the law?

If it is the law prohibiting camping, then a large percentage.

[LnGrrrR]

If it is the law prohibiting camping, then a large percentage.

Is there a law prohibing camping?

[ChumpDumper]

They are violently camping.

[mavs>spurs]

I am officially Occupying ChumpDumper.

[Cry Havoc]

They are violently camping.

:lmao

:lmao

:lmao

I am going to camp the HELL out of this grassy knoll!

[mavs>spurs]

Let's all Occupy CD people, together we can shut him down

[Ignignokt]

Is there a law prohibing camping?

It's real simple. Either you have a 4th grade understanding of free speech or you actually understand the subject.

Freedom of speech is limited, and it's limitation is property rights. Only the govt can't limit speech. Private businesses can, private people can. Camping and squatting is an act of aggression, while it may not be akin to kicking punching and shooting a victim, it is an infringement on the use of your land.


Would you allow for people to come squat on your yard for endless amounts of time?

[Ignignokt]

:lmao

:lmao

:lmao

I am going to camp the HELL out of this grassy knoll!

You're just going to hell for unlawful use of a scarf for sodomy purposes.

[Cry Havoc]

You're just going to hell for unlawful use of a scarf for sodomy purposes.

:depressed

It keeps me warm!

[mavs>spurs]

so does your stud's beefy arm around you at night faggot

[LnGrrrR]

It's real simple. Either you have a 4th grade understanding of free speech or you actually understand the subject.

Freedom of speech is limited, and it's limitation is property rights. Only the govt can't limit speech. Private businesses can, private people can. Camping and squatting is an act of aggression, while it may not be akin to kicking punching and shooting a victim, it is an infringement on the use of your land.


Would you allow for people to come squat on your yard for endless amounts of time?

You obviously misunderstood my reply, and/or have not read my other responses.

The judge ruled that they are able to use the park, and if the police bar them from doing so, that's contra to the ruling. (It's a bit weird that a public park is owned by a private owner, which makes this wonky.)

If they can no longer protest in the park, then they deserve to be able to take up another public venue to share their message.

[mavs>spurs]

so have the occupy protests died down? it seems like every time i see footage it's just a few crackheads standing around

[Ignignokt]

You obviously misunderstood my reply, and/or have not read my other responses.

The judge ruled that they are able to use the park, and if the police bar them from doing so, that's contra to the ruling. (It's a bit weird that a public park is owned by a private owner, which makes this wonky.)

If they can no longer protest in the park, then they deserve to be able to take up another public venue to share their message.

You can only have public access to a parcel of land that is publicly owned. You don't have the right however to occupy it for an indefinate amount of time while blocking other peoples abiltity to use it, and or commerce to conduct business.

[boutons_deux]

Zucotti privately owned park was contractually required to allow public access 24/7.

[DarrinS]

Zucotti privately owned park was contractually required to allow public access 24/7.

but not camping

[DarrinS]

Does your first amendment right allow you to block traffic? They are arresting people for that today.

[Agloco]

Zucotti privately owned park was contractually required to allow public access 24/7.


but not camping

What if they didn't have tents Darrin?

Do they need to be standing up at all times? Is lying down permitted? Where is your line drawn?

[ChumpDumper]

So can different people stay in the park in shifts without camping?

[DarrinS]

What if they didn't have tents Darrin?

Do they need to be standing up at all times? Is lying down permitted? Where is your line drawn?


camping

[DarrinS]

So can different people stay in the park in shifts without camping?

yes

[CosmicCowboy]

What if they didn't have tents Darrin?

Do they need to be standing up at all times? Is lying down permitted? Where is your line drawn?

The article I read said the police were walking around in the park all night waking people up that were trying to sleep on the benches.

[Cry Havoc]

The article I read said the police were walking around in the park all night waking people up that were trying to sleep on the benches.

They must be violent sleepers.

[mavs>spurs]

so have the occupy protests died down? it seems like every time i see footage it's just a few crackheads standing around

can anyone answer this? are people still gathering in as great of numbers as when all this started or has it sort of fizzled out?

[CosmicCowboy]

can anyone answer this? are people still gathering in as great of numbers as when all this started or has it sort of fizzled out?

They are making a big push in new York today blocking streets in the business section and are planning to "occupy" the subway this afternoon. If they were REALLY smart they would put on suits and occupy the cars and not the platforms...and just ride all afternoon/evening and not get off...If nobody gets off there is no room for anyone to get on thus stranding hundreds of thousands of commuters downtown...

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I like how its "obsessing" unless the OP makes a thread about it. Laughable.

[Winehole23]

indefinite pronoun reference

[LnGrrrR]

If they were REALLY smart they would put on suits and occupy the cars and not the platforms...and just ride all afternoon/evening and not get off...If nobody gets off there is no room for anyone to get on thus stranding hundreds of thousands of commuters downtown...

That's actually a really good idea. They'd probably be kicked off by the Transportation Authority, but I'm assuming it would be somewhat hard to do without resorting to a legal bag of tricks.

[CosmicCowboy]

That's actually a really good idea. They'd probably be kicked off by the Transportation Authority, but I'm assuming it would be somewhat hard to do without resorting to a legal bag of tricks.

They would be scared shitless that they would accidentally kick off a real banker trying to get home.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

That's actually a really good idea. They'd probably be kicked off by the Transportation Authority, but I'm assuming it would be somewhat hard to do without resorting to a legal bag of tricks.

If they paid to ride the subway there'd be no reason to kick them off. No "bag of tricks" needed. They'd just have to be civil about it. Now that will be more of a "bag of tricks"

[Cry Havoc]

can anyone answer this? are people still gathering in as great of numbers as when all this started or has it sort of fizzled out?

http://occupywallst.org/article/watch-wall-street-shut-down-live/

Thousands upon thousands of people marching downtown right now.

[boutons_deux]

Nothing will happen, beyond this very impressive street theatre, until the 99% are presented with candidates who run on anti-1%/pro-99% platforms, get elected by the 1000s in national and state legislatures, pass laws and regulations the "take our country back".

I'm afraid that the 1% will always own enough of a well-paid corrupt minority of legislators to block real reform, eg, reinstitute Glass-Steagall, etc.

[LnGrrrR]

If they paid to ride the subway there'd be no reason to kick them off. No "bag of tricks" needed. They'd just have to be civil about it. Now that will be more of a "bag of tricks"

If OWS protestors paid for tickets to ride the subway, and continued to stay on throughout the day for, say, a week, do you really think the Mayor wouldn't try to crack down and implement some law to kick them off?

[Wild Cobra]

Zucotti privately owned park was contractually required to allow public access 24/7.

How can the rest of them public access it when it is full of the same people?

they complain about the 1%, but in this case, they are the 1% by staying in place.

[boutons_deux]

Private security goon:

Security Guard at Zuccotti: ‘Your Fly’s Open, Faggot’

http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/brookfield_security_guard_your_flys_open_faggot_20 111117/

[Nbadan]

Apparently, Bloomberg thinks union members aren't New Yorkers...but surprise, they are part of the 99%.....

Bloomberg: Unions hijacked Occupy protest
By MJ LEE | 11/18/11 12:15 PM EST


New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg suggested Friday that unions took over the Occupy Wall Street protest yesterday.

“A vast percentage of the people were union members protesting – some private unions and then some municipal unions – and they had you know, organized signs and leadership and that sort of thing,” Bloomberg said on WOR radio station Friday. “So it really wasn’t the protesters that have been in Zuccotti Park or that you see around the country.”

Bloomberg added, “It was just an opportunity for a bunch of unions to complain or to protest or whatever they want to do.”

The mayor warned that some of those union members, especially the municipal union members — should “step back” and realize that their salaries depend on the city’s ability to attract companies, investors and people that pay taxes.


Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68687.html#ixzz1e50K46m6)

[boutons_deux]

$850K to slime and slander OWS

GOP Lobbying Group Develops Plan to Take On OWS With "Hit Job"

A well-known Washington lobbying firm with links to the financial industry has proposed an $850,000 plan to take on Occupy Wall Street and politicians who might express sympathy for the protests, according to a memo obtained by the MSNBC program “Up w/ Chris Hayes.

”The proposal was written on the letterhead of the lobbying firm Clark Lytle Geduldig & Cranford and addressed to one of CLGC’s clients, the American Bankers Association.CLGC’s memo proposes that the ABA pay CLGC $850,000 to conduct “opposition research” on Occupy Wall Street in order to construct “negative narratives” about the protests and allied politicians. The memo also asserts that Democratic victories in 2012 would be detrimental for Wall Street and targets specific races in which it says Wall Street would benefit by electing Republicans instead.

According to the memo, if Democrats embrace OWS, “This would mean more than just short-term political discomfort for Wall Street. … It has the potential to have very long-lasting political, policy and financial impacts on the companies in the center of the bullseye.”

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/736777/gop_lobbying_group_develops_plan_to_take_on_ows_wi th_%22hit_job%22/#paragraph3

==========

While shitbag lawyer whores will do anything for money, spending $850K and perhaps more to follow could mean the 1% is actually getting just a little bit worried, but not much, they know they own (enough) legislators totally at all levels. The 1% countenances absolutely no resistance. All Your Country Belong To Us.

It's a RollerBall/Robocop world now. UCA is much more powerful than govt, UCA makes, and enforces, the laws.

[boutons_deux]

More on Police Departments' Collusion in Defense of 1%: Who's the Organization Coordinating Those Crackdown Calls?

...a little-known but influential private membership based organization has placed itself at the center of advising and coordinating the crackdown on the encampments. The Police Executive Research Forum, an international non-governmental organization with ties to law enforcement and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, has been coordinating conference calls with major metropolitan mayors and police chiefs to advise them on policing matters and discuss response to the Occupy movement. The group has distributed a recently published guide on policing political events....

The coordination of political crackdowns on the Occupy movement has been conducted behind closed doors, with city officials and PERF refusing to say how many cities participated in the conference calls and the exact nature of the discussions. Reports of at least a dozen cities and some indication of as many as 40 accepting PERF advice and/or strategic documents include San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Portland [Oregon], Oakland, Atlanta, and Washington DC....PERF coordinated a November 10 conference call with city police chiefs across the country – and many of these cities undertook crackdowns shortly afterward.

We can take an educated guess at "the exact nature of the discussions" by looking at the leadership of the Police Executive Research Forum:

PERF’s current and former directors read as a who's who of police chiefs involved in crackdowns on anti-globalization and political convention protesters resulting in thousands of arrests, hundreds of injuries, and millions of dollars paid out in police brutality and wrongful arrest lawsuits.

These current and former U.S. police chiefs -- along with top ranking police union officials and representatives from Canadian and British police -- have been marketing to municipal police forces and politicians their joint experiences as specialists on policing mass demonstrations.

Chairing PERF's board of directors is Philadelphia Police Commissioner and former Washington D.C. Metro Police Chief Charles Ramsey, who was responsible for coordinating the police response to protests against international banking institutions including the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. Those protests, and Ramsey's response to massive anti-war demonstrations in Washington DC in the lead up the the Iraq War, often resulted in preemptive mass arrest of participants that were later deemed to be unconstitutional.

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/736778/more_on_police_departments%27_collusion_in_defense _of_1%3A_who%27s_the_organization_coordinating_tho se_crackdown_calls/#paragraph3

========

So we have a professional consulting group specializing in authoritarian crushing of dissent by Human-Americans.

[RandomGuy]

Does your first amendment right allow you to block traffic? They are arresting people for that today.

Blocking Traffic good now.


“The cars were blocking one of our hospitals, so an ambulance literally wasn’t able to get into the bay for ten minutes,” said Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, whose statewide stay-at-home order provoked the ire of many right-wingers and Trump supporters. The order banned residents from traveling to second homes, closed non-essential businesses, and limited outdoor activities in a bid to curb the spread of the virus.


https://www.thedailybeast.com/michigan-conservatives-not-concerned-about-covid-19-block-ambulance-during-protest-against-social-distancing