Now I know why the Left hates Fox News so much!

[Yonivore]

Unlike CBS, they have journalistic ethics that demand accuracy in reporting.


Kerry Visited Vietnam Peace Talks (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132799,00.html)

"Kerry said then, and says now, that the meeting was a part of an effort to learn more about U.S. POWs. But some question the propriety of a commissioned Naval officer meeting with the enemy at a time of war."

"When Kerry testified before the Senate in 1971, he pushed for an immediate, unilateral withdrawal of U.S. forces. If that happened, he said he knew the North Vietnamese would return all U.S. POWs."
Not only did they not return all P.O.W.'s, they massacred millions of South Vietnamese upon our withdrawal -- just like people told John Kerry, at the time, they would.

He consorted with the enemy to poison the well of public opinion and cause the U.S. to withdraw from Vietnam, abandoning our soldiers, left behind, and the Vietnamese people who depended on us for their very lives.

A traitor.

FoxNews! The most watched network news channel! Tell 'em how it is Fox!

[DeSPURado]

Kerry's a hero for trying to end that war peacably. Unless you want to argue that it was all going to end in the communists taking over the world.:lol

[Nbadan]

Talk about re-fighting the Vietnam war, gees. Yoni's right, it was all John Kerry's fault. His testimony before the Select Senate Committee the Viet-Cong "allegedly" used for prisoner torture, consorting with the enemy at the Vietnam peace talks, and the eventual with-drawl of U.S. forces from South Vietnam. It was all John Kerry. Nixon had nothing to do with it. It was all John Kerry.

:lol

[travis2]

Nixon got us out, you traitorous son of a bitch.

You probably rejoice every time someone mentions American soldiers being held captive and tortured.

Kerry had no business being there. More than one testimony...on both sides...has stated that Kerry's statements were used against American soldiers.

And you fucking laugh about it.

You're one person I wouldn't mind reading about in the obits. **** you.

[Yonivore]

1) Kerry appears before the Senate and lies about what atrocities he and other U.S. soldiers are doing in Vietnam. (Or not, he could have been telling the truth about his limited knowledge of his own service and those in his immediate sphere) But, either way, he was in no position to know the greater conduct of the war...those he recruited to testify with him, via affidavit, were completely discredited -- leaving only his own admissions as evidence.

2) After lying about how horrible the U.S. military was being in Vietnam, he suggested the U.S. should unconditionally accept the NVA 8 (or 7 -- I forget which) point plan for ending the conflict. Basically, he urged the U.S. to surrender on the promise all of our P.O.W.'s would be returned and while Pooh Poohing the idea that the NVA would kill the South Vietnamese people.

3) When, after much debate through a worsening public outcry based largely on Kerry's lies and others like them, the U.S. did withdraw (remember the poor South Vietnamese trying to hang on to the departing Hueys?) the NVA did not immediately return our P.O.W.s (some are still unaccounted for) and they did immediately set about slaughtering millions of South Vietnamese.

Face it, the man colluded with the enemy to cause the U.S. to surrender South Vietnam. That's why there are laws against private citizens negotiating with foreign powers...and, worse, there are military laws against an officer doing the same.

He should have been arrested, tried, convicted, and executed for treason in 1971.

[IcemanCometh]

So lets get this straight Yonivore. Are you for or against the Vietnam war?

[Yonivore]

I was for finishing what we started. And, I believe the cause was noble and necessary.

I also think the prosecution of the war was too politicized to be effective.

But, the more I think about your question, the more irrelevant is becomes. Kerry's actions directly affected those that were least able to affect the outcome of the war; the soldiers and South Vietnamese people.

Whether or not the war was legitimate, which I believe it was (even if poorly prosecuted), should not legitimize a person lying before the senate, colluding with the enemy, and causing the misery of those who cannot decide for themselves the course of their lives.

[IcemanCometh]

John Kerry was on the grassy knoll too.

I think the word you were looking for is indirectly, he indirectly affected them. Unless its your belief that John Kerry single handedly ended the war, cause if he did that maybe he should be campaigning on that.

What a load of crap about nobility and honor from a man whos hero thought it prudent to opt out of the war.

[Yonivore]

Have you watched the footage of him before the Senate Committee?

That's not exactly an obscure "grassy knoll"

[SpursWoman]

A question....*who* was Kerry at the time to be able to even put himself in that position?


I've been trying to figure that one out and have never read anything about it....

:wtf

[IcemanCometh]

obviously the most important man in history, according to republicans. he stopped a war, he caused every tax increase in history, he ruined our military, he caused 9/11 and then he started the war in iraq.

[SpursWoman]

In other words, it's not possible to answer an honest question without being an asshole. Thanks.

[IcemanCometh]

why sugar politics is assholes, just dicks and assholes.

[SpursWoman]

So why deviate from the norm, right?

[Yonivore]

Kerry was a leader in a group, Vietnam Veterans Against the War, that fashioned itself after other anit-war groups (The Weathermen, etc...) and resorted to subversive, dihonest, and traitorous methods to achieve their objectives.

Kerry set himself up as the "legitimate" presence of the anti-war movement by allowing all the lies and mischaracterizations to come together in his body before the Senate that day.

He wasn't the head of the movement, he wasn't even that important, he was its poster boy -- it's useful idiot.

[DeSPURado]

Travis, So nixon got us out leaving POWs there and is a hero. Kerry attempted to get us out tried to negotiate POW release a few years before Nixon even lifted a finger, and he's the traitor?

Just goes to show everyone how one sided you are.

[SpursWoman]

Kerry attempted to get us out tried to negotiate POW release a few years before Nixon even lifted a finger


Was he given the authority by the US Government to represent them in negotiations with the opposing government?


And I'm not being glib, it just sounds like from what I've heard he did not have the authority.

[DeSPURado]

He did not have the authority. But the other people in attendance did. Those who were there on behalf of the US would have been officially observers of the peace talk between the Nothern and Southern Vietnamese.

[Nbadan]

1) Kerry appears before the Senate and lies about what atrocities he and other U.S. soldiers are doing in Vietnam. (Or not, he could have been telling the truth about his limited knowledge of his own service and those in his immediate sphere) But, either way, he was in no position to know the greater conduct of the war...those he recruited to testify with him, via affidavit, were completely discredited -- leaving only his own admissions as evidence.

This is filled with enough truth and enough lies to qualify for Fox News. Nice job Yoni. Kerry did testify before the Senate about atrocities committed in Vietnam. Atrocities that were committed by some members of the Swift Boat Veterans who are now attacking Kerry about his testimony. Kerry was chosen to speak on behalf of thousands of decorated war vets, some of whom received the highest award you can receive from this country during the Vietnam war, about war atrocities that they personally witnessed being committed in Vietnam.

Republicans are now using this testimony to attack Kerry as a traitor because the Viet-Cong may have used this testimony as justification for torture, as if these prisoners wouldn't have been tortured anyway. Kerry tried to live up to his military promise, the Marine credo, even though he was in the Navy, of no man left behind, and for this he gets attacked by backers of the same administration - although admittedly (some) different people - who left 1000's of our men behind in Vietnam.

[xrayzebra]

Is this another one your "expert" opinions DeSpurado?
Are you an expert in this area also? Or once again
spewing your Shit.

[Yonivore]

'fraid not Nbadanallah, he based much of his testimony on affidavits filed in the Winter Soldier Investigation...affidavits that were wholly discredited and mostly concocted by two VVAW cohorts.

Nice try though.

You're right, he did try to drag his crewmates into the fray, even confessing to atrocities himself. Unfortunately, he mentioned none of that kind of stuff in the After Action Reports he filed...unless, maybe, they're contained in the 31 pages of records the Navy says he refuses to sign a form 180 in order for them to release.

[DeSPURado]

Yonivore can you prove that Kerry knew he was testifying to false affadavits at the time?

[Yonivore]

****, it was 30 years ago.

The same as I know Dan Rather knew the Documents were forged.

He'd met with the NVA a year prior and colluded with them to devise a way to break public opinion and get the U.S. government to unilaterally withdraw.

He's fucking scum and, in a perfect world, he'd of been executed in 1971.

[DeSPURado]

All we have in the way of evidence is Kerry's FBI file:



An FBI summary of the anti-war protests he helped organize in April 1971 says Kerry, a decorated war hero, "overshadowed" many of the organization's other leaders and was "a more popular and eloquent figure" than the rest.

"Kerry was glib, cool, and displayed just what the moderate elements wanted to reflect," the summary says.

Although the FBI was watching Kerry and the other protesters earlier in 1971, it placed the group under active investigation in August of that year following reports from many field offices that members were "engaging in illegal and subversive activities," an FBI memo says. Kerry left the group before the end of 1971 and was not implicated in violent activities or conspiracies attributed to other members in the file.

That memo, which does not mention Kerry, says that in 1972, the group "moved toward increased militant and revolutionary-type activities in addition to continued cooperation with communist-dominated groups and foreign elements hostile to the U.S."

By then, Kerry had moved on to an ill-fated run for a seat in Congress.

The FBI memo — the names of the sender and recipient are blacked out — asserts that the investigation of the group was never directed or influenced by the Nixon White House. This, despite known efforts by Nixon's aides to discredit Kerry.

Campaigning Wednesday in Los Angeles, Kerry welcomed the release of the records.

"I think it's great," he said. "I'm very proud of my efforts to end the war. I welcome anybody's perusal of them. I'm proud that I stood up to Richard Nixon. And you know, I personally have also requested those documents. So I'm happy to have them out there. It's terrific."

Kerry is mentioned only sporadically in the file, most of which covers the group's activities from 1972 to 1975.

In one document, the FBI field office in Pittsburgh notes that Kerry spoke at the University of Pittsburgh on Nov. 3, 1971. "The essence of Kerry's speech was to condemn those who did not get involved in social change," the FBI memo says. "He urged those present to make a conscientious commitment to end the war."

An April 12, 1971, FBI memo from Baltimore quotes a confidential source as saying that Kerry had been telling members of the group that "Congress is prepared to listen" to their anti-war agenda but cautioned that it was critical that the coming demonstrations remain nonviolent. Kerry was on the group's national steering committee at the time.

Another FBI memo describes in detail the medals Kerry won as a Navy lieutenant in Vietnam and noted he was a Yale graduate who was named class orator in 1966.

In contrast, others members of the group were accused of conspiracy to riot during the 1972 Republican National Convention, of passing classified information to a Japanese communist leader, and various acts of violence. A Connecticut member was arrested with an explosive device en route to a speech given by Vice President Spiro Agnew.

USAtoday (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-05-05-kerry-vietnam_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA)

[Yonivore]

That's a pretty thin file to fit in one post DeSPURate.

[Tommy Duncan]

"I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government," Kerry said.

So was there a US contingent at the talks or not?

[Yonivore]

"So was there a US contingent at the talks or not?"
Uh, not.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

FauxNews sucks. :flipoff

[Tommy Duncan]

Uh, not.

So there were no "authorized" US personnel there? Man, this doesn't look good for Kerry.

[Hook Dem]

" FauxNews sucks. :flipoff " .......Ummmm...I believe that argument could be made for CBS!:flipoff

[Yonivore]

Except with See-BS, we have evidence they suck.