The Lockout is over! Handshake agreement reached.

[Dex]

This deserves its own thread.

Details still need to be ironed out, but after a 15 hour negotiating session on Friday/Saturday morning, a tentative agreement has been reached!


Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Done deal, say two negotiators!
1 minute ago

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Still a tricky list of B-list of deal points, including drug testing, early entry draft age, D-League assginments that must be agreed on.
1 minute ago

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer
The NBA lockout is over.
16 minutes ago
Retweeted by JackMcClinton

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
NBA is back...tentative agreement reached, sources say
5 minutes ago

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
Best guess from here: Maybe 7-10 days to finish CBA, then a week of free agency and a week of training camps. 66-game season starts 12/25
6 minutes ago

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Tentative agreement has been reached, source says
6 minutes ago

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
Also, to be clear: Agreement is on main framework of deal. All the B-list items (drug testing, DLeague, etc) still need to be negotiated.
7 minutes ago

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
Handshake deal reached around 3 am. Of course, still needs ratification from majority of owners and majority of players.
8 minutes ago

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
The players will have to reform the union, and the 450-plus players will still have to ratify a deal to make it official.
13 minutes ago

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
Been waiting two months to say this: Looking like a season. How u.
14 minutes ago

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Ken Berger of CBSSports.com first reported deal done.

Looks like we'll have games for Christmas. :toast

[Dex]

More here:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2011-11-24/NBA-talks-aim-for-games-by-Xmas/51381828/1


NBA owners, players reach tentative deal
By Jeff Zillgitt, USA TODAY Updated <1m ago

The NBA and locked-out players returned to talks Friday, and in the 15th hour, early Saturday, came away with a tentative agreement to end the lockout on Day 149.

The participants for this session were, for the league, NBA Commissioner David Stern, Deputy Commissioner Adam Silver, San Antonio Spurs owner and labor relations chairman Peter Holt and attorneys Rick Buchanan and Dan Rube and for the players, trade association chief Billy Hunter, trade association president Derek Fisher, trade association vice president Mo Evans, economist Kevin Murphy and attorney Ron Klempner.

"We're optimistic … that the NBA season will come to pass on Dec. 25," Stern said early Saturday.

The players had dissolved the union after rejecting the last owner's proposal Nov. 14. To make this deal work, the union must be reconstituted and lawsuits the players filed against the league must be settled. There are also so-called B issues, such as player conduct and drug testing, that need to be worked out.
Going into this session the hope from the owners was to get a 66-game schedule.

"It's our hope that we're going to play some games this season," Boston Celtics owner Wyc Grousbeck had said Thursday to USA TODAY's J. Michael Falgoust. "We regret that we haven't been able to reach an agreement yet. We know that that has an effect on fans and business partners and people who work around our arenas."

The sides first met Tuesday, their first formal communication since Nov. 14, when the players rejected the owners' last offer of the roughly 50-50 split of BRI and the restrictions on how that money would be distributed. The players disbanded the union and filed two antitrust lawsuits, which were merged into one complaint filed in Minneapolis by attorney David Boies.

Competitive balance is a major priority for the owners. To get that, the NBA wants to reduce massive payroll discrepancies between the highest and lowest spending clubs with restrictions on clubs paying the luxury tax.

Some of those restrictions in the league's last proposal:

•Limited use of the mid-level exception — $3 million a year for a maximum of three years for taxpaying clubs compared to $5 million a year for three or four years for non-taxpayers.

•A punitive luxury tax that escalates for each $5 million a club spends above the tax threshold.

•Taxpaying clubs would not be able to acquire players via sign-and-trade after the first two years of the deal.

The union had argued those measures restrict player movement and serve, in essence, as a hard salary cap.

A deal soon was needed to keep the attractive Christmas Day TV slate: first, the Celtics at the New York Knicks on ESPN; followed by a doubleheader on ABC — the Miami Heat at the champion Dallas Mavericks, then the Chicago Bulls at the Los Angeles Lakers.

Stern has said it would take about 30 days to start the season after a CBA is reached.

Thirty days out from Dec. 25 was Friday.

[ajballer4]

We back!

[slick'81]

fkcn sweet

[TIMMYtoZO]

:lmao@ spurs fans. Why are you guys happy about this? Your team isn't a contender anymore. :lol

[Dex]

:lmao@ spurs fans. Why are you guys happy about this? Your team isn't a contender anymore. :lol

Some of us only care about watching our team, regardless of whether they are at the top of the heap or at the bottom. It's called not being a bandwagoner; I'm sure this is a bizarre concept for Miami fans. :toast

[Hooks]

We still have Bonner, fuck.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

no hating tonight... can't wait to watch our mavs/ spurs go at it like it's meant to be

[TIMMYtoZO]

Some of us only care about watching our team, regardless of whether they are at the top of the heap or at the bottom. It's called not being a bandwagoner; I'm sure this is a bizarre concept for Miami fans. :toast

That's nice.

[Dex]

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Players accepted 49-51 band, sources say..b-list issues (draft, sge limit, drug testing) to be discussed tomorrow
14 minutes ago

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
Free agency and training camps set to start simultaneously on Dec. 9, Stern says.

[Dex]

no hating tonight... can't wait to watch our mavs/ spurs go at it like it's meant to be

:tu

[jiggy_55]

Woooohoooooooo!

[Fireball]

Finally ... cannot wait to see our rookie Kawhi in action ... and hopefully an improved James Anderson as well.

Tiago and Tony ... get your asses back to the States ...

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

awesome :toast

going to be an even better Christmas day.

Can't wait to see Kenneth Faried in action this season.

[TDMVPDPOY]

bulls vs lakers on xmas ? is this even a ratings showstopper?

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

That's the first time I have seen Peter Holt. His suit looks cheap :smokin

[Vic Petro]

Wishbone strikes again. Works every time.

[pookenstein]

Great news. Finally. Now get RJ's ass out.


Some of us only care about watching our team, regardless of whether they are at the top of the heap or at the bottom. It's called not being a bandwagoner; I'm sure this is a bizarre concept for Miami fans. :toast

:toast

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

WINNERS: The Denver Nuggets

Remember when the Heat had all that cap room to sign free agents? The Nuggets are basically like that, only now all kinds of teams will be on a course to shed payroll. There’s not a system in the world where you can’t parlay tiny roster commitments into potential.

They forgot to mention the positive of JR and Kmart going overseas :clap

[pookenstein]

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3913/45664142.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/45664142.jpg/)

:toast I already like this kid.

:flag::lobt2::flag:

[Hooks]

Finally ... cannot wait to see our rookie Kawhi in action ... and hopefully an improved James Anderson as well.

Tiago and Tony ... get your asses back to the States ...

Honestly I don't think Kawhi will get ANY playing time. Itll be Splitter's rookie season all over again, splitter missed camp last year and got 0 pt, with just one week for camp this year I truly doubt kawhi gets pt.

[Giuseppe]

no hating tonight... can't wait to watch our mavs/ spurs go at it like it's meant to be

Yeah, your 69 since you rang in June has been a real treat.:rolleyes

[Giuseppe]

[[[Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Players accepted 49-51 band, sources say..b-list issues (draft, sge limit, drug testing) to be discussed tomorrow
14 minutes ago]]]

Jesus H. Christ, they gave away another point on the BRI.:rolleyes

[Chase_the_Bass]

I guess all those goats I sacrificed did not die in vain. Thank god.

[lurker23]

Honestly I don't think Kawhi will get ANY playing time. Itll be Splitter's rookie season all over again, splitter missed camp last year and got 0 pt, with just one week for camp this year I truly doubt kawhi gets pt.

Depends if they choose to amnesty RJ. If RJ is gone, minutes are there for the taking. Granted, they have about half a dozen young guys fighting for minutes at the 2 and the 3, but Kawhi will be among them.

Not sure if they'll amnesty RJ or not. If I absolutely had to bet on it, I'd guess that they pay RJ this season, then amnesty him before next season (assuming that's allowed). However, an immediate RJ amnesty is almost as likely.

[Spurs Brazil]

Yes!!!

[Bruno]

Good news. They have limited a lot of the damages a long lockout would have made. Losing the first two months of the season isn't a that big deal because the NBA always start slow with the concurrence of the NFL. I hope the NBA will do something big for Christmas with a 15 games day.

[dbestpro]

Looks like the Spurs 50 game win streak is in serious jeopardy.

[Fireball]

Honestly I don't think Kawhi will get ANY playing time. Itll be Splitter's rookie season all over again, splitter missed camp last year and got 0 pt, with just one week for camp this year I truly doubt kawhi gets pt.

Cmon, James Anderson did get good playing time before his injury last season and I hope Kawhi gets them as well. I mean he is a #15 pick they traded George Hill for ... he has to play instead of RJ.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

:hungry: hell YESSSSSSSS!

[xellos88330]

Fuck yeah!!!!

[benefactor]

Good to see. Welcome back, Spurs.

[Nathan89]

What does the tax look like? Hope they didn't come down on the taxing.

[boutons_deux]

Employers rampage, employees screwed.

iow, just another day at the office these past 30+ years

[DPG21920]

Will be interesting to see the changes to the system.

[Giuseppe]

I read a Larry Coon tweet early this morning that referenced the penalties surviving the negotiations virtually intact.

[tmtcsc]

Pretty weird feeling. I'm only slightly happy. I guess if the Mavs can win a title, we still have a chance. Last years ass-whooping from Memphis didn't leave me feeling good about the future.

We need a PF that can score/defend and for the young guys to really step up. Tim is almost an afterthought now. That's a sad reality that was too clear against Memphis. Memphis was licking their chops at facing us and rightly so. The # 8 seeded wanted to match up with the number 1 seed. Not since GS bitch slapped Dallas has that happened.

Ughhh, Im not sure Im even slightly happy about the upcoming season. I hope they prove me wrong.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Yay...i guess

[Giuseppe]

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/screenshots/63815d1202874764-pretty-girl-thread-nicky_whelan.jpg

This girl is so pretty she makes my heart actually ache.

I God's.

[Russ]

Tim told Matt Bonner don't come home without a deal.

(And Matt said have I ever let you down before?):flag:

[TDomination]

I woke up to this news! I couldn't be any happier!!!

[Libri]

Spurs will no longer be undefeated this season. :cry:cry

[DesignatedT]

Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[benefactor]

Pretty weird feeling. I'm only slightly happy. I guess if the Mavs can win a title, we still have a chance. Last years ass-whooping from Memphis didn't leave me feeling good about the future.

We need a PF that can score/defend and for the young guys to really step up. Tim is almost an afterthought now. That's a sad reality that was too clear against Memphis. Memphis was licking their chops at facing us and rightly so. The # 8 seeded wanted to match up with the number 1 seed. Not since GS bitch slapped Dallas has that happened.

Ughhh, Im not sure Im even slightly happy about the upcoming season. I hope they prove me wrong.
The title years are over. They were over last year it's just that most of the homers didn't see the writing on the wall until the Spurs fell to the 8 seed. The Spurs won a bunch of games with a gimmicky offense then tried to re-invent the wheel late in the season. That's all that happened and nothing more.

The Spurs are in transition now. It was either this or trade everyone away and go into full rebuild. They have chosen let their players who won them titles finish out their careers here and that is fine. The RJ debacle was horrible, but hopefully there are lesson learned from it. I accept where the Spurs are and will go into that season with that mindset...taking whatever good comes with it.

Oh...and fuck anyone who says they are not excited about the season. I am always happy to have the Spurs back no matter what. All you emo, I'm not happy unless they are contending Spur fans can go root for the fucking Mavericks.

[TheProfessor]

Oh...and fuck anyone who says they are not excited about the season. I am always happy to have the Spurs back no matter what. All you emo, I'm not happy unless they are contending Spur fans can go root for the fucking Mavericks.
:tu

[baseline bum]

Wow, this is awesome and unexpected. I didn't see an agreement coming for at least another month. I wish they had done 56 instead of 66 games though, since 56 is right about the normal number of games a team plays from Dec25th to the end of the season in an 82 game year. I hope the season ends up going into May and they speed up the first round a bit to keep teams from playing the back-to-back-to-back games like in 1999. Great news though to see the NBA start up on the day most fans first start to pay attention.

[Budkin]

:lmao@ spurs fans. Why are you guys happy about this? Your team isn't a contender anymore. :lol

Because being able to watch your favorite team is better than not be able to?

[adrienne]

If the Christmas Day schedule is left as is...the Mavs raise the banner and get their rings while Miami watches. That in itself makes the lockout almost worth it.

[tp2021]

Awesome news! More importantly I can take my brother off of suicide watch :lol

[Sean Cagney]

:lmao@ spurs fans. Why are you guys happy about this? Your team isn't a contender anymore. :lol

So let me guess you became a Heat fan hmmm last year then? I guess you can only watch when your team is a contender so I guess most of us should stop watching the league now :toast


You are an idiot.

[gospursgojas]

Right when I was getting all in to Hockey.








































:rolleyes:

[tmtcsc]

Yay...i guess

:toast You see pal, that's who I am, and you're nothing.

[Brazil]

Thanks God !!!

That's a terrific news... Let this shit begin !

[Ice009]

Do the players still have to approve the deal? Do they all vote on it?

[Bruno]

Ken Berger has the details of the new CBA:
http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/33514559

[Giuseppe]

^Luxury tax rates: The same dollar-for-dollar as in the previous CBA for the first two years.

Thank Christ.

[spurs10]

^Luxury tax rates: The same dollar-for-dollar as in the previous CBA for the first two years.

Thank Christ.
Wow! This shows that there was some compromising done on both sides.
I'm ready for some ball!
:flag:

[Giuseppe]

Wow! This shows that there was some compromising done on both sides.
I'm ready for some ball!
:flag:

Yeah, the players gave the owners 1.25 billion dollars over 6 years & permitted the owners to restructure the system to suit the owners. The owners had the decency not to make Buss pay 3.5 to 1 for the next two years.

What a compromise.

[Dex]

^boo,hoo

[Bruno]

Differences between the owners offer rejected 2 weeks ago and the new CBA are very small. Players could be disappointed that their juridical move hasn't fetched more results. This new CBA will limit a lot the ability of big market teams to build a superior team with their money which should help Spurs in the future.

[Giuseppe]

^boo,hoo

Well, shit, I was banking on DoK's solemn vow that the players would clean the owner's clock in this CBA.

When you lose 1.25 billion dollars and they shove a new system up your poop chute/sans lubrication--turns out DoK didn't know shit from shinola.

tee, hee.

[Dunc n Dave]

Yeah, the players gave the owners 1.25 billion dollars over 6 years & permitted the owners to restructure the system to suit the owners. The owners had the decency not to make Buss pay 3.5 to 1 for the next two years.

What a compromise.

So the Lakers could go for a Dwight Howard... IF Buss is willing to pay an extra $140 million in tax fPER YEAR or that $100 million roster of his. Sounds fair to me!:toast

[Giuseppe]

Buss won't fritter with the spirit of the CBA. The handwriting is on the wall. He'll trade advantage for money and he'll try to live with it. The end is closer than the beginning and that preys on a man's mind.

"We're" (Laker Fan) left holding the dirty end of the stick & it is a fucking haymaker.

[Giuseppe]

Hey Cully, Ive bagged some chics like that.

I don't like the hard body, or, the belly button ornament, but, that face. It's so beautiful I can't stand it.

[DMC]

Hey Cully, Ive bagged some chics like that.
:lmao

[DMC]

Do the players still have to approve the deal? Do they all vote on it?
Some do. Others just nod.

[DPG21920]

Differences between the owners offer rejected 2 weeks ago and the new CBA are very small. Players could be disappointed that their juridical move hasn't fetched more results. This new CBA will limit a lot the ability of big market teams to build a superior team with their money which should help Spurs in the future.

The more I'm reading on this, the more I'm shocked a deal got done. At first, even some players were saying that the owners gave them most of what they wanted on the system, but it's not all that different. At least not to the point where the players, who rejected an offer that was terrible, disclaimed interest & held their ground would want to accept.

It just goes to show that what a few of us said a while back was very true; the players were bending over backwards to try and get a deal done and the owners were absolutely disgusting. This deal shows that like I said, the players were just looking for very, very small budges on the owners part to take back to the players and the owners wouldn't even do it. Now that they did, and they weren't even very large givebacks, a deal was agreed upon quickly.

Very surprising.

[Sean Cagney]

The more I'm reading on this, the more I'm shocked a deal got done. At first, even some players were saying that the owners gave them most of what they wanted on the system, but it's not all that different. At least not to the point where the players, who rejected an offer that was terrible, disclaimed interest & held their ground would want to accept.

It just goes to show that what a few of us said a while back was very true; the players were bending over backwards to try and get a deal done and the owners were absolutely disgusting. This deal shows that like I said, the players were just looking for very, very small budges on the owners part to take back to the players and the owners wouldn't even do it. Now that they did, and they weren't even very large givebacks, a deal was agreed upon quickly.

Very surprising.Yep, and we get specifics now those who called the players greedy and so on should just chill some now until all is released! It might not have been them at all, but the owners who were greedy and assholes all along! Seems like it to me after reading more.

[ElNono]

The more I'm reading on this, the more I'm shocked a deal got done. At first, even some players were saying that the owners gave them most of what they wanted on the system, but it's not all that different. At least not to the point where the players, who rejected an offer that was terrible, disclaimed interest & held their ground would want to accept.

It just goes to show that what a few of us said a while back was very true; the players were bending over backwards to try and get a deal done and the owners were absolutely disgusting. This deal shows that like I said, the players were just looking for very, very small budges on the owners part to take back to the players and the owners wouldn't even do it. Now that they did, and they weren't even very large givebacks, a deal was agreed upon quickly.

Very surprising.

It tells me the deal was pretty close. It was the 'reset offer' threat and ultimatum that pushed the players to move toward the disclaimer. Hope they can get this shit approved since I'm tired of the soap opera.

[DPG21920]

The deal was only close because the players weren't being selfish. They were being open and really pressing for a deal. We all saw the previous deal and agreed it was pretty over the top terrible. This new deal isn't much different, so I think the players just told the owners to give on a few things and quit stomping them into the ground as much so a deal could be done.

[ElNono]

The deal was only close because the players weren't being selfish. They were being open and really pressing for a deal. We all saw the previous deal and agreed it was pretty over the top terrible. This new deal isn't much different, so I think the players just told the owners to give on a few things and quit stomping them into the ground as much so a deal could be done.

It's no surprise that once owners gave up a bit on the system side, we have a deal.

You just wonder why they didn't move there 4 weeks ago.

[DPG21920]

I agree, since ultimately they didn't have to give on much to get a deal that was one of the most lopsided CBA's in American sports history :lol

Just shows how big of jerks they are.

[alamo50]

Get ready for a season of uggly basketball............but thankful to see Timmy lace 'em up for another year.

GO SPURS GO!

:lobt: :lobt: :lobt: :lobt:

:lobt2:

[Spur_Fanatic]

Some of us only care about watching our team, regardless of whether they are at the top of the heap or at the bottom. It's called not being a bandwagoner; I'm sure this is a bizarre concept for Miami fans. :toast

LOL, I too find it funny a Miami Heat fan dares to talk.

[Mr. Body]

Well, I'm only happy the owners will all have impeccably run franchises now, will run very deep in the black, and will never complain about not making any money again.

*gales of laughter*

[Giuseppe]

Get ready for a season of uggly basketball............but thankful to see Timmy lace 'em up for another year.

They ain't mutually exclusive, daddy-O.

[rascal]

Now you fools can give them your money.

[Giuseppe]

Well, I'm only happy the owners will all have impeccably run franchises now, will run very deep in the black, and will never complain about not making any money again.

*gales of laughter*

The players had that 2,000 milllion dollars and managed to somehow piss it away. Let the owners hold it for 10 years. See what happens.

[Bruno]

Official NBA agreement document:
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_basketball_heat/2011/11/nba-cba-official-nba-agreement-document.html

There are now clearly 2 sets of rules fro teams depending on whether they are or not over the tax (or $4M over the tax for certain rules).

Non tax paying teams:
- true MLE: $5M/4years
- LLE: $1.9M/2 years, can't be used in consecutive years
- can get players through a S&T
- can't take more than 150%+$100k in a trade

Tax paying teams:
- mini MLE: $3M/3years
- no LLE
- can't get players through a S&T
- can't take more than 125%+$100k in a trade

Add to that:
- incremental luxury tax that is very stiff
- repeater tax
- teams can't give more than $3M in cash per year

Big market teams are screwed by this agreement. They can go over the tax but it will cost them tons of money and they will be trapped in a situation where they can't improve their team by any means. It isn't a true hard cap but it will be almost as effective as it.

[tmtcsc]

Hey Cully, Ive bagged some chics like that.

:lol At what grocery store ?

[Mr. Body]

The players had that 2,000 milllion dollars and managed to somehow piss it away. Let the owners hold it for 10 years. See what happens.

Probably donate it all to Rick Perry, like Peter Holt does. :downspin:

[Giuseppe]

Probably donate it all to Rick Perry, like Peter Holt does. :downspin:

It'd be money down a rat hole. Perry stepped out the door when he sided illegals. That was his ELE.

[DPG21920]

Official NBA agreement document:
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_basketball_heat/2011/11/nba-cba-official-nba-agreement-document.html

There are now clearly 2 sets of rules fro teams depending on whether they are or not over the tax (or $4M over the tax for certain rules).

Non tax paying teams:
- true MLE: $5M/4years
- LLE: $1.9M/2 years, can't be used in consecutive years
- can get players through a S&T
- can't take more than 150%+$100k in a trade

No big changes to exceptions for these teams, but that trade percentage went up from 125%+100K, to 150%+100K which is significant as far as %'s go.




Tax paying teams:
- mini MLE: $3M/3years
- no LLE
- can't get players through a S&T
- can't take more than 125%+$100k in a trade

Add to that:
- incremental luxury tax that is very stiff
- repeater tax
- teams can't give more than $3M in cash per year

Huge difference in exceptions for tax teams. That mini MLE will really hurt tax teams looking to add FA's. With no increase in trade % like non-tax teams, the difference in money could make a very big difference. We will see how much big markets truly effect decisions over money. When it was all else being equal it was easy. When you are deciding on a lot of money, it's not.




Big market teams are screwed by this agreement. They can go over the tax but it will cost them tons of money and they will be trapped in a situation where they can't improve their team by any means. It isn't a true hard cap but it will be almost as effective as it.

Somewhat agree. It's still a small % of teams that are taxpayers. I actually think that some teams (LA...) who will make money no matter what will end up with a really stacked team and it will be an ultra elite class (2-3 teams), then a bunch of parity compared to there being about 6-8 big spenders and then a group of 5-8 teams that are competitive with lower payrolls, then the bottom dwellers like it has been.

The taxpayers can improve, but it will have to come through trade. The% didn't go down for anyone, so they can trade as they have before.

[DPG21920]

I also like they got rid of BYC in trades. What is crazy is the if a team is a taxpayer 4 out of any 5 years:

"Tax rates for teams that are taxpayers in at least 4 out of any 5 seasons (starting in 2011-12) increase by $1 at each increment (e.g., for team salary $5M-$10M above the Tax level, the Tax rate for a repeat taxpayer is $2.75-for-$1 instead of $1.75-for-$1)."

This is the tax from now on:

• In years 1 and 2, Tax rate for teams with team salary above Tax level is $1-for-$1 (same as 2005 CBA).

• Beginning in year 3, Tax rates for teams with team salary above Tax level are as follows:

Incremental Team Salary Above Tax Level Tax Rate

$0M – 5M $1.50-for-$1

$5M – 10M $1.75-for-$1

$10M – 15M $2.50-for-$1

$15M – 20M $3.25-for-$1

[DPG21920]

If you a large tax payer ($4M or more over LT), you can't do Sign and Trades. So if you are a tax payer and you want to get a FA via sign and trade from another team, if you are already over 4M over the LT or the trade would put you there, you can't do it.

No Dwight to LA.

Edit: I'm a dummy. Extend and trades are still valid and that is the situation with Dwight, not a sign and trade. LA could still get him.

[Giuseppe]

This is the tax from now on:

• In years 1 and 2, Tax rate for teams with team salary above Tax level is $1-for-$1 (same as 2005 CBA).

• Beginning in year 3, Tax rates for teams with team salary above Tax level are as follows:

Incremental Team Salary Above Tax Level Tax Rate

$0M – 5M $1.50-for-$1

$5M – 10M $1.75-for-$1

$10M – 15M $2.50-for-$1

$15M – 20M $3.25-for-$1

The emotion & spirit of this CBA is just as important as the "numbers." 2 year grace period to get your shit straight. Stern held our hand for 30 years. Now he's holding "their" hand.

In the blink of a Saturday morning, everything that came 25 years before it was wiped out.

There is still nuclear winter, it's just on the player's side exclusively now.

[DPG21920]

Some important things: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/sports/basketball/several-issues-nba-players-wouldnt-concede-in-labor-negotiations.html?_r=1&src=tp


¶ Flexibility for high-payroll teams: The league agreed to create a $4 million cushion, or “apron,” that will allow teams near the luxury-tax threshold to use the full midlevel exception and to acquire players in sign-and-trade deals.

The league had sought to ban teams from using those measures if doing so pushed them even one dollar over the tax line. Now, a team with a $69 million payroll ($1 million below the tax threshold) will be permitted to use the full, $5 million exception, pushing its payroll to $74 million, or $4 million over the line. A team at $69.5 million would be limited to just $4.5 million of the exception.

The same framework will apply for teams acquiring a player in a sign-and-trade deal.

Options and trades: The league dropped its ban on player options and extend-and-trade deals. But a player who wants an extension as part of a trade will be limited to three years, instead of four, with raises of 4.5 percent, instead of 7.5 percent.

[DPG21920]

Bruno, with the Extend and Trade vs Sign & Trade, are there no restrictions on the E&T like the S&T with what has been reported?

Meaning that in a Dwight to LA scenario, it could be done with no real problems (from a CBA perspective) with LA being so far over the cap?

[DPG21920]

Also, another question Bruno:

If a team amnesties a player and he clears waivers, that player can go to any team, correct? At that point, the team can pay whatever they want to the player. What do they have to pay a player if they claim him?

[ChuckD]

If you a large tax payer ($4M or more over LT), you can't do Sign and Trades. So if you are a tax payer and you want to get a FA via sign and trade from another team, if you are already over 4M over the LT or the trade would put you there, you can't do it.

No Dwight to LA.

Edit: I'm a dummy. Extend and trades are still valid and that is the situation with Dwight, not a sign and trade. LA could still get him.

Orlando is much more in control, though. All they have to do is keep their offer on the table until his contract expires. Once that happens, LA cannot get him. His choices will be to go somewhere else, probably a bad team, for less, or stay in ORL.

[Bruno]

Bruno, with the Extend and Trade vs Sign & Trade, are there no restrictions on the E&T like the S&T with what has been reported?

Meaning that in a Dwight to LA scenario, it could be done with no real problems (from a CBA perspective) with LA being so far over the cap?

There is the restriction that the extension can only add an additional 2 years.

The most realistic Howard to LA scenario is a simple trade. In 2013, Howard would be a FA and Lakers could re-sign him to about a $120M/5years contract using their bird rights on him. In a extend and trade deal, Howard would only receive about $40M over 2 years.



Also, another question Bruno:

If a team amnesties a player and he clears waivers, that player can go to any team, correct? At that point, the team can pay whatever they want to the player. What do they have to pay a player if they claim him?

An amnestied player won't be able to re-sign with his former team. He can sign with the other 29 teams for whatever contract he can get.

I guess the special waiving procedure for amnestied players will use a silent auction system. Teams with cap space will say what percentage of his previous contract they are ready to pay. The team ready to pay the highest percentage will get the player.

For example, RJ's contract is:
11-12: $7.5M (with the pro-ration)
12-13: $10.2M
13-14: $11M (player option)

If the wining team of the silent auction got him at 40%, his contract wiht his new team will be:
11-12: $3M
12-13: $4.1M
13-14: $4.4M (player option)

the remaining 60% of his contract will be paid by Spurs.

[DPG21920]

It will be interesting to get more details because right now it doesn't seem clear to me. There is a lot riding on how the waiver system will work.

[DPG21920]

There is the restriction that the extension can only add an additional 2 years.

The most realistic Howard to LA scenario is a simple trade. In 2013, Howard would be a FA and Lakers could re-sign him to about a $120M/5years contract using their bird rights on him. In a extend and trade deal, Howard would only receive about $40M over 2 years.



Am I missing something? Then why would the Extend and Trades be such a big deal if players can just do this?

[Bruno]

Am I missing something? Then why would the Extend and Trades be such a big deal if players can just do this?

It's less easy to do for a player because he will play months without an extension and risks an injury that will cost him his new big contract. It's also less comfortable for the franchise because the player will hit FA and can be stolen by a third team.

Saying that, the new extend and trade rule won't really change the NBA landscape. It's a little item of the new CBA. Even under the previous CBA, these extend and trade deal were very rare with only, I think, 2 made during the whole former CBA (Garnett to Boston and Melo to NY).

[DPG21920]

I agree, but that is what was confusing. Teams, if they are afraid of losing a guy for nothing could just do a normal trade and get something in return vs doing an extend and trade.

I know that the player can say "If you trade me, I won't sign an extension with x team...", but when you are dealing with an LA or such, I can't see that coming into play.

[Spurs Brazil]

Will the Spurs get the full MLE?

[Bruno]

I agree, but that is what was confusing.

Yeah, this limitation of extend and trade is more of a symbolic rule in response to what Melo did with Denver.

The main change that will truly impact the league is the new luxury tax. That's the key of whole new CBA to have a more balanced league. The mini MLE and the no S&T rule will also have an impact but it will be a more limited one.

[Bruno]

Will the Spurs get the full MLE?

If they don't use the amnesty rule, they won't have the full MLE.

[ElNono]

If they don't use the amnesty rule, they won't have the full MLE.

If Dice retires and that contract comes off the books, will they then be under the cap?

Also, will Leonard contract cost more than what was due to Hill, being he's a first rounder?

[DPG21920]

If Dice retires and that contract comes off the books, will they then be under the cap?

Also, will Leonard contract cost more than what was due to Hill, being he's a first rounder?

Spurs are at $74,426,140 with Dice, If he retires, they will still be over the cap, but under the LT line with $69,206,140 (assuming it's the same as last season). If that is the case, teams can use the MLE up to the point where it would take you 4M over the LT line. So for a team to have the full MLE, you would have to have starting cap number of $69,000,000 or less. A team like the Spurs at $69,206,140 would only have ~$4.7M of the MLE to use.

With regards to Leonard/Hill: In 2010, Larry Sanders was drafted 15th and given 120% of the rookie scale which equates to $1.7M. Hill is owed $1.4M.

[ElNono]

^ Thanks

[Mel_13]

Spurs are at $74,426,140 with Dice, If he retires, they will still be over the cap, but under the LT line with $69,206,140 (assuming it's the same as last season). If that is the case, teams can use the MLE up to the point where it would take you 4M over the LT line. So for a team to have the full MLE, you would have to have starting cap number of $69,000,000 or less. A team like the Spurs at $69,206,140 would only have ~$4.7M of the MLE to use.

With regards to Leonard/Hill: In 2010, Larry Sanders was drafted 15th and given 120% of the rookie scale which equates to $1.7M. Hill is owed $1.4M.


If Dice retires, the Spurs will still have to pay half his salary.

Expecting the Spurs to sign anyone to a contract larger than the league minimum is optimistic, to say the least.

[ElNono]

If Dice retires, the Spurs will still have to pay half his salary.

But does it count towards the lux cap?

[Mel_13]

But does it count towards the lux cap?

Yes, buyouts count towards the salary cap and the lux tax.

The numbers involved raise the possibility of using the amnesty on Dice to get under the lux tax line.

[ElNono]

Yes, buyouts count towards the salary cap and the lux tax.

The numbers involved raise the possibility of using the amnesty on Dice to get under the lux tax line.

thanks

[DPG21920]

Mel is correct however, but you can just adjust the Math. What ever portion of Dice's contract that is guaranteed, needs to be added to my number on their salary and deducted from the MLE number.

[Seventyniner]

If the Spurs really need the flexibility, and McDyess is retiring anyway, they could just amnesty him. Or do they plan on doing that to RJ down the road?

The best scenario is to trade McDyess's contract for someone making a similar amount, thereby not adding to the payroll.

[SenorSpur]

Great news!

It's good to be back!

Now I can start reading and posting again!

[DesignatedT]

Would you be able to use the Amnesty on Dice and then use it on RJ as well down the road? Or can you only use it on 1 player?

[Dex]

Would you be able to use the Amnesty on Dice and then use it on RJ as well down the road? Or can you only use it on 1 player?

Only one player.

If Dice knew he was going to get amnestied, then I doubt he accepts his player option. He would probably just retire. He could get a free payday by choosing to "continue playing", and then get cut by Amnesty, but he doesn't seem like the type of guy to put the Spurs in that situation. Then again, it's also hard to turn down 5 million dollars of easy money.

[lurker23]

The only way I see the Spurs amnestying Dice is if they're really desperate to spend the full MLE this season (e.g.- if they somehow think they can get a game-changer big man for that price, which I kind of doubt).

From the math in this thread, I think the most likely scenario is that Dice retires, keeping $2,640,000 on the Spurs salary cap, and then the Spurs use part or all of the $3 million tax-payers exception. They would likely do this to obtain a reserve PG or big man, and outbid for guys who are primarily getting near-minimum offers.

As a side note, I assume Dice and the Spurs have to decide by December 9th? His salary was set to be fully guaranteed on July 1st.

[howbouthemspurs]

Bout freakin time!

[Yorae]

Summary of Principal Deal Terms
CBA Agreement Summary (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_JqVMjKAfLYNzU3YzVlNDAtMDBlOS00Y2UwLWE5ZTI tM2RkZTdjN2FmMzI4&hl=en_US)

[ace3g]

SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
NBA can open facilities for player workout Thursday now. Memo just put out changing date.

SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
One PR person can be on premises during players workouts. No coaches or GMs until deal ratified. Media allowed to attend.

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
NBA has already updated teams and told them that team facilities will now open to players on Thursday instead of Friday, sources tell Y!

[timtonymanu]

Damn it's so good to read about these updates.

I grew tired of hearing about game cancellations, labor meeting ends without progress, etc.

[Bruno]

The NBA is releasing all theses details about the new season with the goal to put tons of pressure on players to vote the new CBA. The new CBA is a bad one for players but they aren't in a position to turn it down with all the buzz created by the NBA around the end of the lockout. Hunter is also part of this gameplan with the memo he sends to players saying that it was a good CBA for players.

NBPA has failed during this lockout. Hunter should be fired and the NBPA structure should change with a bigger implication of NBA's best players.

[Mel_13]

The NBA is releasing all theses details about the new season with the goal to put tons of pressure on players to vote the new CBA. The new CBA is a bad one for players but they aren't in a position to turn it down with all the buzz created by the NBA around the end of the lockout. Hunter is also part of this gameplan with the memo he sends to players saying that it was a good CBA for players.

NBPA has failed during this lockout. Hunter should be fired and the NBPA structure should change with a bigger implication of NBA's best players.

Yes and yes.

Hunter was an unmitigated disaster for the people he was paid so handsomely to represent.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't see how the NBA players are in a bad place with this deal in the grand scheme of things. They are guaranteed half of revenues and while they are not getting 57% they could easily get 53% which I feel any independent person would say is a pretty good split everything else being equal.

[ace3g]

MaxSportsSA Maximum Sports
Tim Duncan, James Anderson and Cory Joseph showed up to Spurs practice facility for physicals as doors opened today. Details on Max Sports



JMcDonald_SAEN Jeff McDonald
Pop's first presser of the season is Saturday. Can't wait. Bet he's been saving up the barbs.