Does anybody else not care if RJ starts?

[8FOR!3]

I mean don't get me wrong, I'd like to see us cut his ass and start Kawhi :lol

but I'm just pretty fucking glad that we're about to get to watch some Spurs basketball.

It's kind of nice knowing that we might not've seen the end of the Duncan era just yet.

It's also nice knowing that scrubs like LeBron aren't going to get the chance to decide if they want to go overseas, that way he won't get a title :rollin

On a more serious note, I have a few thoughts and questions. Is McDyess officially retired or is there a chance he comes back for this year? Here's to hoping regardless of what happens Splitter's in the starting lineup with Duncan. His contributions, Blair stepping up to the plate coming off the bench, and the addition of another big is extremely important for the success of the team this year. (Look at how huge the signing of Tyson Chandler ended up being for Dallas. A lot more underlying factors with them last year, but he was a major factor.)

I really don't see Novak resigning with us. He's more of a tweener small forward than a PF and we've got so many other guys to get his minutes. Depth is huge at guard. If we're assuming Richard Jefferson and Kawhi Leonard both get rotation minutes at SF, that would leave Butler and Green to fight for the third spot maybe? I'm interested to see what Butler can bring to the table. I may be wrong, but I don't see Cory Joseph getting rotation minutes. At least not to start the season. I see Neal being TP's backup and James Anderson backing up Ginobili. But then again the more I think about it the more it probably won't work out that way. We'll probably sign a backup PG, Neal will probably back Ginobili up at #2, and I doubt we'll sign a big free agent. At least not anybody worth getting excited about.

But hey, at least we'll get to watch some fuckin basketball. :flag:

[Bill_Brasky]

If Kawhi plays better in the system and shows Pop that hes a tenacious defender, he will start. RJ was riding the bench at the end of the first round last year.

[DMC]

The Spurs need to use him if they are paying him. He's not worth his salary, but he's better than some of the alternatives.

[NASpurs]

The Spurs need to use him if they are paying him. He's not worth his salary, but he's better than some of the alternatives.

I fail to see how he's better than the alternatives which are James Anderson and Kawhi Leonard. If they're going to play him in stubbornness due to not owning up to their mistake in giving him a big contract then so be it but saying he's better than those two, ha. I rather see Danny fucking Green out there as well. I don't see how giving those three a chance would make the Spurs worse. All RJ is doing is taking up valuable minutes and oxygen.

[ChuckD]

He will start but Kawhi will push him. Wouldnt be shocked if RJ or Kawhi or anderson take the Starting SG spot and have Manu come off the bench to run a good second unit.

Exactly. He'll be on a short leash, and if he zones out, he'll sit down. They have alternatives this year in Kawhi and even Anderson, that they didn't have all or part of last year.

You don't always start your best players at every position, proof being all of the SGs that started when Manu came off the bench most of his career.

[baseline bum]

Man, Leonard's only a rookie. He'll get 15 minutes a night probably. Jefferson's spot is safe until Pop starts going to panic lineups when the Spurs go down a game in a playoff series.

[DMC]

I fail to see how he's better than the alternatives which are James Anderson and Kawhi Leonard. If they're going to play him in stubbornness due to not owning up to their mistake in giving him a big contract then so be it but saying he's better than those two, ha. I rather see Danny fucking Green out there as well. I don't see how giving those three a chance would make the Spurs worse. All RJ is doing is taking up valuable minutes and oxygen.
This is true if you are developing a season, but the Spurs are starting half way thorugh the season, almost. RJ knows the system already, he just doesn't execute well. Anderson and Leonard are hopefuls. Anderson did well before his injury last year, but he's still a developing player. RJ has the ability to make a difference, it's a question of how he's being used in the system and how he decides to attack it.

[Muser]

Kawhi won't start, you know Pop is still the coach for one last year right?

[ElNono]

He will fit the role nicely if we're looking to tank...

[weebo]

RJ will start but mostly because he is familiar with Pop's system and Pop's reluctance on starting rookies not named Duncan or Parker.

[Buddy Holly]

He will start but Kawhi will push him. Wouldnt be shocked if RJ or Kawhi or anderson take the Starting SG spot and have Manu come off the bench to run a good second unit.

If anyone takes the starting SG spot, it'll be Neal.

[gospursgojas]

Tiago, Db, Leo, Anderson, Neal would be fun to watch.

[lmbebo]

leonard will def get short mins. He'll have to play great to really push RJ.

Even nicer would be having leonard take bonner's mins as a stretch 4 :D

[jeebus]

Well, at least we'll only have to sit through 66 games of Splitter being benched and the wonderful small ball of Bonner as the center and RJ as the PF.

[Big P]

I'd rather see dick get the boot tbh.

[mystargtr34]

More importantly, what excuse will Pop use this season to not start Tiago?

[SA210]

More importantly, what excuse will Pop use this season to not start Tiago?

[jeebus]

More importantly, what excuse will Pop use this season to not start Tiago?

:pop: Since he played overseas, he's technically a rookie again and needs a season to get over himself. Bonner will be our starting center. :pop:

[Brazil]

More importantly, what excuse will Pop use this season to not start Tiago?

that's an easy one dude... he doesn't spread the floor... duhh

[TheCerebral1]

Let him take his soft game somewhere not in Texas. Unless Cuban wants a nice big waste of space. Start Kawhi or Anderson.

[Fireball]

:pop: Since he played overseas, he's technically a rookie again and needs a season to get over himself. Bonner will be our starting center. :pop:

Just laughed my ass off :lol

[Duncan2177]

:pop: Since he played overseas, he's technically a rookie again and needs a season to get over himself. Bonner will be our starting center. :pop:

:bang

[DPG21920]

RJ cannot start. If he's not amnestied or traded, you have to bring him off the bench. I've made the argument before that even though from an overall talent standpoint RJ is better than many, that this team would be better off with a much, much lesser player who possesses these qualities: High Motor, Aggressive Rebounder & Able Defender. Even if they are limited offensively, that player (hopefully Leonard) can make this a net gain for the team. What they lose in offense from RJ to said player isn't much considering RJ doesn't take many shots anyways and the Spurs have plenty of scoring options (TP/Manu/Tim/Neal...).

It's one of those subtle things in sports, but RJ kills this team. No one trusts him or believes in him and his play reflects that. He drags the team down like a sickness. No one really says it, but you can see it. His impact is very negative and his lack of energy and inability to make big hustle plays (or plays in general) kills the team.

While the team needs an infusion of talent overall, for right now they need glue guys to maximize what they have and they need a rugged, hard working rebounder at the SF position.

[Dunc n Dave]

Amnesty RJ the hell outta here and sign Grant Hill to a 1-2 year contract. Use him and Leonard at SF. Hill provides better D and rebounding than RJ, and he's not as mentally fragile as RJ. Couldn't be any worse than what RJ gives us...

[DPG21920]

It's a tough question financially, but for the sake of the health of the team, RJ needs to go. Like I said, he is like a quiet sickness that just saps all the damn energy out of you.

[therealtruth]

I agree RJ doesn't add much if you use him incorrectly but the Spurs can use him correctly. Running more in transition and allowing RJ to score 17+ a game helps the team more than letting him score 11 and just featuring Tony/Manu. Tony/Manu/Duncan can really get theirs at any time. But a more confident RJ tries harder and defends harder. Basically it doesn't make sense to use him as a 4th option.

I wrote this in the other thread:

Another option would be changing the system enough to allow RJ to play his game. He was averaging 20ppg at the beginning of the season when the Spurs were winning. They are a much more dangerous team with an aggressive RJ. In fact I think they're better of that way than trying to find a 3 and D(efense) player to replace RJ. There's not that many Bowen clones out there. Allowing RJ to play his game makes everyone else more dangerous because the defense doesn't know who to stop.

The whole reason the Spurs got RJ was because they didn't believe they had enough offensive firepower with Bowen's declining defense and Finley's non-existent defense. I think the Spurs best chance at competing is to go back to that running game and then focus on improving the defense. Play JA and Splitter and less Bonner (definitely no Bonner and Blair at the same time) will also help the defense. They can also look for a cheap good backup defensive big. That's a very realistic plan that allows them to compete and maintain team chemistry. It doesn't make sense to mess with team chemistry if you're just shuffling players around. It's much easier to change the gameplan.

[Seventyniner]

It doesn't make sense to mess with team chemistry if you're just shuffling players around. It's much easier to change the gameplan.

Bingo. If RJ doesn't fit, change the system so that he does. He's far more talented than anyone the Spurs can reasonably acquire.

[DPG21920]

You don't change the system to fit RJ. That is ridiculous. He's not better than Tim/TP/Manu, those are the guys you play to their strengths.

[DPG21920]

RJ's strengths aren't conducive to winning.

[Nathan89]

I don't even know what strengths RJ has.

He scored a lot more at the beginning of the season in large part due to hitting a lot of shots.

[DPG21920]

Well the other problem is that even if you wanted to change to fit what RJ is known for, he doesn't do it as well as he used to because of a decline physically. It just makes no sense trying to change the team to something you know has little chance of winning for a guy like RJ. Almost as little sense as signing him for that 2nd time.

[Nathan89]

Building a team around a marginal player is a terrible idea.

[Russo21]

Couldn't care less. We're fucked anyway. A giant gaping hole at centre. I piece of shit at SF. Pop's mancrush on Bonner. We have no shot

[therealtruth]

It's very simple idea. Run more and get more open court opportunities. It helps RJ's game and everybody else. I remember Neal in an interview after a game saying that was Pop's gameplan. The big 3 will always be able to get their opportunities.

The Spurs did it at the beginning of last season and were on a record breaking pace. If they had kept the offense close to the same level and improved the defense I think they would have won the Finals. Actually it was more shocking for them not to have won based on the pace they set. I think '05 Pistons are the only team that started as well and didn't win and they at least made it to Finals game 7.

[ElNono]

It's very simple idea. Run more and get more open court opportunities. It helps RJ's game and everybody else. I remember Neal in an interview after a game saying that was Pop's gameplan. The big 3 will always be able to get their opportunities.

The Spurs did it at the beginning of last season and were on a record breaking pace. If they had kept the offense close to the same level and improved the defense I think they would have won the Finals. Actually it was more shocking for them not to have won based on the pace they set. I think '05 Pistons are the only team that started as well and didn't win and they at least made it to Finals game 7.

Not this shit again. Run and gun doesn't work in the playoffs. Game slows down and you need to be able to score on a set offense.

'05 Pistons were a grind it out team.

[ElNono]

Building a team around a marginal player is a terrible idea.

Not to mention that building a team because your marginal player can't play any other way is an even worse idea.

[Russo21]

Disagree therealtruth. You can't base your gameplan on your piece of shit small forward just cause he sucks and you overpaid him so bad. We run n gun last year and fucked it. Our teams won championships with defense. Phoenix couldn't win with run n gun. Dallas couldn't win with run n gun until they played D last year. There's no point running more, we ran heaps last season. We need defense and rebounding. There is zero Point strategising your team based on just trying to get RJ to be better, especially with massive gaping holes in the middle, fuck him.

[therealtruth]

Disagree therealtruth. You can't base your gameplan on your piece of shit small forward just cause he sucks and you overpaid him so bad. We run n gun last year and fucked it. Our teams won championships with defense. Phoenix couldn't win with run n gun. Dallas couldn't win with run n gun until they played D last year. There's no point running more, we ran heaps last season. We need defense and rebounding. There is zero Point strategising your team based on just trying to get RJ to be better, especially with massive gaping holes in the middle, fuck him.

I was only talking about the offensive gameplan. There's no question defense has to be better to contend. Even last year if we had Splitter and Anderson in the rotation the defense might have been good enough. Without Anderson we were too small to defend at the wings. By using Splitter sparingly we had plently of Bonner & Blair and not enough rim protection. Even if Splitter's defense was as bad as Bonner, if all he did was backup and raise his arms, it would be harder to score because of his length. Combine his length with Duncan in the starting lineup should help cover the hole in the middle.

In reality we don't know the defensive potential of the team at full strength. With a good defender like Leonard in the wings it might be better than you think if Pop can focus on defense.

[TDMVPDPOY]

rather give the sf startin spot to james anderson or kawhi, or put gino there with neal playin SG...

im tired of the RJ clown, who like bonner is just makin numbers on the court for 3 on 5

[objective]

RJ starting would be a terrible mistake.

I expect him to start and play big minutes.

[Dex]

Ah, it's good to see SpursTalk finally rounding back into form.

[mingus]

i'd like to see James Anderson and Kawil Leonard play.

the way Pop sat RJ the whole second half of the last game against the grizz...i wouldn't be surprised if he's given up on him completely and relegates him to 15 mpg. huge deserved slap in the face to RJ that i think showed what Pop thinks of him, which is that he's worthless.

[Ice009]

It's very simple idea. Run more and get more open court opportunities. It helps RJ's game and everybody else. I remember Neal in an interview after a game saying that was Pop's gameplan. The big 3 will always be able to get their opportunities.

The Spurs did it at the beginning of last season and were on a record breaking pace. If they had kept the offense close to the same level and improved the defense I think they would have won the Finals. Actually it was more shocking for them not to have won based on the pace they set. I think '05 Pistons are the only team that started as well and didn't win and they at least made it to Finals game 7.

NEVER, ever, EVER change the system for RJ. This should not have to be explained. Run and gun will get you dominated in the playoffs if that's your only strong point.

Plus you got the wrong year for the Pistons, it was 2006 that the Pistons were on record pace about halfway through the season and they got face fucked in the ECF by Miami. Really big letdown from that Pistons team.

[JR3]

I would like to see RJ play 8 minutes a game. Maybe if he have channel an entire game's effort into 8 minutes on both sides of the court, he can be useful. If he can't bust his butt for 8 minutes, then I want him out of San Antonio ASAP.

[SenorSpur]

I care that RJ was foolishly re-upped a year ago and that he's still on the roster.

[timtonymanu]

I still don't want him starting.

Things I'm not looking forward to in 2012:
RJ starting
Bonner starting
Bonner/Blair lineup
Tiago being benched
Pop not using common sense

Things I'm looking forward to:
Tim and Manu having the chance to play another season before they retire
Tiago/Kawhi/Anderson/Neal

[Dex]

This cat plays better defense than RJ...

http://canv.as/ugc/original/ba64c130f8e737db8019495520abff1f234afb70.gif

[therealtruth]

The Spurs had no choice but to resign RJ. There was no alternative last season and there's still no real alternative till we know how Leonard develops. I'll say this though the Spurs should have gotten a backup SF after Anderson got injured. It's always good to have a backup at each position to push the starter to play better. Manu was forced into becoming the backup SF.

[admiralsnackbar]

I was only talking about the offensive gameplan. There's no question defense has to be better to contend. Even last year if we had Splitter and Anderson in the rotation the defense might have been good enough. Without Anderson we were too small to defend at the wings. By using Splitter sparingly we had plently of Bonner & Blair and not enough rim protection. Even if Splitter's defense was as bad as Bonner, if all he did was backup and raise his arms, it would be harder to score because of his length. Combine his length with Duncan in the starting lineup should help cover the hole in the middle.

In reality we don't know the defensive potential of the team at full strength. With a good defender like Leonard in the wings it might be better than you think if Pop can focus on defense.

Defense happens on both sides of the court. The whole reason defensive teams favor half-court offense is that there is less of an opportunity for turnovers than in fast-break situations, a higher likelihood of converting the possession to points or collecting the rebound (can't get a bounce if your Center is just crossing the halfcourt) and an easier time getting your guards (wonder why they're named that?) back on D. There are exceptions, I know, but they tend to be constituted of teams with preternaturally gifted (i.e. "once in a generation"-level players.) RJ isn't on that level. Neither is anyone on our team anymore, really.

[Fireball]

Also take into account that playing hard defense is exhausting and therefore does not match well with run and gun style of basketball. A defensive possession ends with getting the rebound. If players only think of getting to the other half of the court as fast as possible to score, the possession will more likely end with an offensive rebound and points for the opponent.

Spurs just should be opportunistic when to run, but defense should be a priority.

[superbigtime]

This cat plays better defense than RJ...

http://canv.as/ugc/original/ba64c130f8e737db8019495520abff1f234afb70.gif

Is a more consistent scorer also. This cat is clearly clutch.

[therealtruth]

Also take into account that playing hard defense is exhausting and therefore does not match well with run and gun style of basketball. A defensive possession ends with getting the rebound. If players only think of getting to the other half of the court as fast as possible to score, the possession will more likely end with an offensive rebound and points for the opponent.

Spurs just should be opportunistic when to run, but defense should be a priority.

Exactly you have to be opportunistic but still put pressure on the other team's defense. It gets easy baskets that way which take less energy. In addition it puts more pressure on the other team to score and can force them to rush their offense. Getting the defensive rebound fuels the fastbreak. In fact you can't really run if the other teams scores or you don't get the defensive rebound. The Spurs were doing pretty good at it earlier in the year except their defense could have been better.

[admiralsnackbar]

Is a more consistent scorer also. This cat is clearly clutch. I know the temptation is to offer the full MLE with quickness, but there's youtubes of him going on crazy-ass binges... rolling around on drugs an' shit. Plus he's got like 20 kids he doesn't even support... not Spurs material.

Better off signing V-Span.

[Fireball]

Exactly you have to be opportunistic but still put pressure on the other team's defense. It gets easy baskets that way which take less energy. In addition it puts more pressure on the other team to score and can force them to rush their offense. Getting the defensive rebound fuels the fastbreak. In fact you can't really run if the other teams scores or you don't get the defensive rebound. The Spurs were doing pretty good at it earlier in the year except their defense could have been better.

With opportunistic I meant the team should increase the tempo of the game in certain situations - sometimes you can sense an opponent is already in the ropes and some quick points knock him out. But you cannot stay on the gas pedal on offense the whole time and play lockdown defense which needs quick rotations. Instead you need to take it slowly on offense and play down the clock for which Spurs championship teams were known. The current team does not have the personnel to do both ...

[CaptainLate]

RJ will start but mostly because he is familiar with Pop's system and Pop's reluctance on starting rookies not named Duncan or Parker.

He'll start, too, b/c he will be trade bait in February. It would be good to sign up a good young center now, since we know we need one. Dalembert (76ers) or Jordan (Kings) should do. We can go after big FA's next yr after trading RJ and have TD's contract off the books.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

simple solution actually but it wont happen because of pops mentality.



start leonard at the SF & have him focus mainly on defense. kind of how lakers do with artest. move manu to the bench and start neal to make up for manu's & RJ's perimeter offense. with parker, Duncan, & splitter or a free agent big.



have RJ be the main scoring option for the 2nd unit. hes a scorer and nothing else. the spurs got him because of the lack of offense(well before last season). makes no sense to have just stand in the corner. with manu playing PG you can run many different plays for RJ. cuts to the basket, have rj shoot jumpers off of screens, & hell maybe some screen and rolls.

spurs have him & hes prob not going anywhere. mine as well use him the best they can.

[TimmehC]

Spurs don't have to change their entire game plan to use RJ more effectively. Run screens for him, or have him run cuts from multiple angles in the half-court... it should be more effective now that his outside shot has to be respected. If nothing else, it makes the Spurs less predictable, and is one more thing opposing defenses have to watch out for. Last season, the Spurs would run 1-2 plays a game for RJ at the most, usually early. But most of the time, they're still stuck in the Bruce Bowen playbook - make him stand in the corner and wait, switching corners every now and then. Why on earth would you pay a guy $40M for that?

I'm not expecting him to be great, but at least use the guy properly and you might get better results. And he tends to be more energized when they involve him in the offense, so it could have a positive effect on his defensive intensity.

And if that doesn't work, pray that Kawhi is a total badass.

[therealtruth]

Spurs don't have to change their entire game plan to use RJ more effectively. Run screens for him, or have him run cuts from multiple angles in the half-court... it should be more effective now that his outside shot has to be respected. If nothing else, it makes the Spurs less predictable, and is one more thing opposing defenses have to watch out for. Last season, the Spurs would run 1-2 plays a game for RJ at the most, usually early. But most of the time, they're still stuck in the Bruce Bowen playbook - make him stand in the corner and wait, switching corners every now and then. Why on earth would you pay a guy $40M for that?

I'm not expecting him to be great, but at least use the guy properly and you might get better results. And he tends to be more energized when they involve him in the offense, so it could have a positive effect on his defensive intensity.

And if that doesn't work, pray that Kawhi is a total badass.

Exactly. The Spurs offense was too predictable in the half-court. Either dump into Duncan or have Manu/Parker penetrate and kick out. The only way you can get away with that is by having a prime Tim Duncan who forces double teaming. They've got to change it up including getting RJ involved. The Grizzlies were able to sit in the passing lanes because they knew exactly where the passes were going.

[admiralsnackbar]

Exactly. The Spurs offense was too predictable in the half-court. Either dump into Duncan or have Manu/Parker penetrate and kick out. The only way you can get away with that is by having a prime Tim Duncan who forces double teaming. They've got to change it up including getting RJ involved. The Grizzlies were able to sit in the passing lanes because they knew exactly where the passes were going.

Just my opinion, but smart passing makes even the most lumbering half-court set unpredictable. Our passing and awareness of passing lanes last season was not what it's been.