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DarrinS
11-29-2011, 08:25 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203935604577066183761315576.html?m od=rss_opinion_main





How do religions die? Generally they don't, which probably explains why there's so little literature on the subject. Zoroastrianism, for instance, lost many of its sacred texts when Alexander sacked Persepolis in 330 B.C., and most Zoroastrians converted to Islam over 1,000 years ago. Yet today old Zoroaster still counts as many as 210,000 followers, including 11,000 in the U.S. Christopher Hitchens might say you can't kill what wasn't there to begin with.

Still, Zeus and Apollo are no longer with us, and neither are Odin and Thor. Among the secular gods, Marx is mostly dead and Freud is totally so. Something did away with them, and it's worth asking what.

Consider the case of global warming, another system of doomsaying prophecy and faith in things unseen.

As with religion, it is presided over by a caste of spectacularly unattractive people pretending to an obscure form of knowledge that promises to make the seas retreat and the winds abate. As with religion, it comes with an elaborate list of virtues, vices and indulgences. As with religion, its claims are often non-falsifiable, hence the convenience of the term "climate change" when thermometers don't oblige the expected trend lines. As with religion, it is harsh toward skeptics, heretics and other "deniers." And as with religion, it is susceptible to the earthly temptations of money, power, politics, arrogance and deceit.

This week, the conclave of global warming's cardinals are meeting in Durban, South Africa, for their 17th conference in as many years. The idea is to come up with a successor to the Kyoto Protocol, which is set to expire next year, and to require rich countries to pony up $100 billion a year to help poor countries cope with the alleged effects of climate change. This is said to be essential because in 2017 global warming becomes "catastrophic and irreversible," according to a recent report by the International Energy Agency.

Yet a funny thing happened on the way to the climate apocalypse. Namely, the financial apocalypse.

The U.S., Russia, Japan, Canada and the EU have all but confirmed they won't be signing on to a new Kyoto. The Chinese and Indians won't make a move unless the West does. The notion that rich (or formerly rich) countries are going to ship $100 billion every year to the Micronesias of the world is risible, especially after they've spent it all on Greece.

Cap and trade is a dead letter in the U.S. Even Europe is having second thoughts about carbon-reduction targets that are decimating the continent's heavy industries and cost an estimated $67 billion a year. "Green" technologies have all proved expensive, environmentally hazardous and wildly unpopular duds.

All this has been enough to put the Durban political agenda on hold for the time being. But religions don't die, and often thrive, when put to the political sidelines. A religion, when not physically extinguished, only dies when it loses faith in itself.

That's where the Climategate emails come in. First released on the eve of the Copenhagen climate summit two years ago and recently updated by a fresh batch, the "hide the decline" emails were an endless source of fun and lurid fascination for those of us who had never been convinced by the global-warming thesis in the first place.

But the real reason they mattered is that they introduced a note of caution into an enterprise whose motivating appeal resided in its increasingly frantic forecasts of catastrophe. Papers were withdrawn; source material re-examined. The Himalayan glaciers, it turned out, weren't going to melt in 30 years. Nobody can say for sure how high the seas are likely to rise—if much at all. Greenland isn't turning green. Florida isn't going anywhere.

The reply global warming alarmists have made to these dislosures is that they did nothing to change the underlying science, and only improved it in particulars. So what to make of the U.N.'s latest supposedly authoritative report on extreme weather events, which is tinged with admissions of doubt and uncertainty? Oddly, the report has left climate activists stuttering with rage at what they call its "watered down" predictions. If nothing else, they understand that any belief system, particularly ones as young as global warming, cannot easily survive more than a few ounces of self-doubt.

Meanwhile, the world marches on. On Sunday, 2,232 days will have elapsed since a category 3 hurricane made landfall in the U.S., the longest period in more than a century that the U.S. has been spared a devastating storm. Great religions are wise enough to avoid marking down the exact date when the world comes to an end. Not so for the foolish religions. Expect Mayan cosmology to take a hit to its reputation when the world doesn't end on Dec. 21, 2012. Expect likewise when global warming turns out to be neither catastrophic nor irreversible come 2017.

And there is this: Religions are sustained in the long run by the consolations of their teachings and the charisma of their leaders. With global warming, we have a religion whose leaders are prone to spasms of anger and whose followers are beginning to twitch with boredom. Perhaps that's another way religions die.

ElNono
11-29-2011, 08:30 PM
The premise the article uses (global warming = religion) is false. Which renders the piece basically worthless. Not surprised you thought it was interesting enough to share though.

(and this is coming from somebody that doesn't support decisions based on global warming)

FuzzyLumpkins
11-29-2011, 08:36 PM
He brushed over several topics with innuendo and then concluded that there is nothing to worry about.

Shallow with a forgone conclusion. No wonder you like it.

DarrinS
11-29-2011, 09:11 PM
// Apply a VERY ARTIFICAL correction for decline!!

This is what you do when that pesky data doesn't cooperate. (actual comment in CRU source code)

ElNono
11-29-2011, 09:17 PM
// Apply a VERY ARTIFICAL correction for decline!!

This is what you do when that pesky data doesn't cooperate. (actual comment in CRU source code)

And?

DarrinS
11-29-2011, 09:23 PM
And?

Point me to the paper that PROVES the warming of the last century is caused by CO2 and not natural variability and I'll drop the subject forever. Good luck.

ElNono
11-29-2011, 09:53 PM
Point me to the paper that PROVES the warming of the last century is caused by CO2 and not natural variability and I'll drop the subject forever. Good luck.

Find me a paper that conclusively PROVES that it isn't.

I already stated I don't believe research on global warming caused by humans is conclusive at this point. When I find a paper stating otherwise, I'll change my mind and point you to it.

That's besides the point though. There's nothing wrong with statistical analysis, something we use on a daily basis with fairly good results.

Climatology is also based on testable, reproducible data, isn't a religion and much like other non-exact science, isn't going away.

FuzzyLumpkins
11-29-2011, 09:58 PM
Point me to the paper that PROVES the warming of the last century is caused by CO2 and not natural variability and I'll drop the subject forever. Good luck.

This again? Well I guess its better than 'Point me to the paper that PROVES there has been warming in the last century.'

We know we are not going to convince you. I just preferred it when the argument your mining sources used was based on solar activity and wobble.

Astrophysics is cool. The shit you parrot now is just stupid. Religion? GMFB.

spursncowboys
11-29-2011, 10:01 PM
Fuzzy, there is still a religious type following. Regardless of how much science will come out throughout the years that weather is cyclical.

FuzzyLumpkins
11-29-2011, 10:06 PM
Fuzzy, there is still a religious type following. Regardless of how much science will come out throughout the years that weather is cyclical.

There are always going to be people that mindlessly follow shit. the difference between religion and science is the source of the dictates. In both cases most people are too ignorant to be able to understand the truth its just that one has a much better chance of actually being the truth.

At the end of the day, the number of mindless followers a particular side reveals nothing about the truth one way or another. That some people are like that is immaterial. Whats important is if the people issuing the dictates are actually approaching their pronouncements intelligently.

BEST does that. Darrin and his editorial do not.

DarrinS
11-29-2011, 10:13 PM
This again? Well I guess its better than 'Point me to the paper that PROVES there has been warming in the last century.'


You guys can't even make up your minds about what it is we are "denying". For example, the infamous "hockey stick" -- it's not the upward trend in recent times that we have issue with -- it's that it tried to filter out the MWP and the LIA as if they didn't exist.

ElNono
11-29-2011, 10:19 PM
You guys can't even make up your minds about what it is we are "denying".

Really? You don't know? What's the OP about?

DarrinS
11-29-2011, 10:22 PM
Really? You don't know? What's the OP about?

Luckily, there is one thing that will kill this religion -- time. Bump in 2017.

MannyIsGod
11-29-2011, 10:38 PM
You guys can't even make up your minds about what it is we are "denying". For example, the infamous "hockey stick" -- it's not the upward trend in recent times that we have issue with -- it's that it tried to filter out the MWP and the LIA as if they didn't exist.


Luckily, there is one thing that will kill this religion -- time. Bump in 2017.

:lmao

FuzzyLumpkins
11-29-2011, 10:41 PM
You guys can't even make up your minds about what it is we are "denying". For example, the infamous "hockey stick" -- it's not the upward trend in recent times that we have issue with -- it's that it tried to filter out the MWP and the LIA as if they didn't exist.

I am not entertaining this thread any more. It should have been included in RG's already existing thread. Every mailer that you get that you find interesting does not deserve its own thread especially not fluff editorials.

DarrinS
11-29-2011, 10:53 PM
I guess Manny doesn't think it warms after an ice age -- unless I misread his last post.

MannyIsGod
11-29-2011, 11:04 PM
You misread your own posts so of course you misread my post. We're better off just counting the times when you actually read something correctly as to save some time.

DarrinS
11-29-2011, 11:06 PM
You misread your own posts so of course you misread my post. We're better off just counting the times when you actually read something correctly as to save some time.

So, you do or don't think there was a MWP and LIA?

MannyIsGod
11-29-2011, 11:12 PM
Sure, there's periods known as the MWP and the LIA. Can you show me the study that proves the MWP was warmer globally than it is now?

ElNono
11-29-2011, 11:14 PM
Luckily, there is one thing that will kill this religion -- time. Bump in 2017.

So you know what you're bitching about...

I'm pretty sure climatology will still be around in 2017, barring the end of the world.

MannyIsGod
11-29-2011, 11:16 PM
Darrin, because its obvious you'll never figure it out for yourself, I was laughing because you acknowledge an upward trend in recent years and then say that AGW will be dismissed by 2017. :lol

Wild Cobra
11-30-2011, 03:33 AM
Climatology is also based on testable, reproducible data, isn't a religion and much like other non-exact science, isn't going away.
Yes, it's testable. We already know the inaccuracy of meteorology, and a climatologist is a meteorologist with a class or few more. We know they have no winning record for accuracy.

Wild Cobra
11-30-2011, 03:35 AM
Darrin, because its obvious you'll never figure it out for yourself, I was laughing because you acknowledge an upward trend in recent years and then say that AGW will be dismissed by 2017. :lol
Your statement assumes warming = AGW exclusively. Isn't there room in your world for natural warming?

boutons_deux
11-30-2011, 05:00 AM
Murdoch's WSJ is part of the VRWC hate media, nothing but a propaganda machine supporting the 1% against the 99%. It's no better than, as suspect as, Fox Repug Propaganda machine. Read with extreme care

George Gervin's Afro
11-30-2011, 07:18 AM
A Wall Street OP piece on Global Warming denying man has anything to do with it? I'm shocked...

And darrins is using this to bolster his argument?

mmmk

RandomGuy
11-30-2011, 07:42 AM
Because I was just thinking to myself, it's been a whole week or so since some douchebag posted a WSJ op-ed about global warming, we are about due for one.

RandomGuy
11-30-2011, 07:44 AM
Yes, it's testable. We already know the inaccuracy of meteorology, and a climatologist is a meteorologist with a class or few more. We know they have no winning record for accuracy.

Two words:

normal

distribution

Basic statistics is your friend.