Solar power bankruptcies loom as prices collapse

[Agloco]

I wasn't sure whether or not to pin this on the back of a painfully long solar power thread or create another. My apologies if this thread appears redundant.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/30/technology/solar_power/?source=cnn_bin


The once high-flying solar power sector is headed for tough times, as a combination of slack demand and massive oversupply is leading to plummeting prices and profits for solar panel makers.

The past year was already grim. The Guggenheim Solar (TAN) exchange-traded fund is down 60% since January and sits even lower than it did following the crash in 2008.

[coyotes_geek]

Read this article earlier today but didn't feel motivated to post it. I thought the article made some good points about this being a necessary and natural process for emerging industries like solar.

The price reductions are necessary in order to attract the consumers that will be needed to keep the industry progressing. Companies who can't adapt go under, companies who can adapt emerge stronger than before.

[RandomGuy]

Read this article earlier today but didn't feel motivated to post it. I thought the article made some good points about this being a necessary and natural process for emerging industries like solar.

The global slowdown in the West has crimped demand greatly.

This will weed out a lot of marginal companies.

What concerns me is that may take some rather good technologies with it, and that the unlucky happenstance of a company with an awesome technology simply being badly managed going under and delaying entry of that technology into the mass market is probably going to happen.

The entrance of Chinese panel manufacturers into the market has not helped Western firms.

The Chinese subsidizing their solar manufacturers may quite give them the edge when it comes to economies of scale that provide a long-term competitive advantage.

[boutons_deux]

yep, big consolidation, doesn't mean solar industry is collapsing, just shaking out.

China dumping panels on US, plus GE building panels in China, very hard to compete for US factories.

feed-in-tariffs would push demand very high and take pressure of new coal/nuke plants and their water cooling demands.

[coyotes_geek]

The global slowdown in the West has crimped demand greatly.

This will weed out a lot of marginal companies.

What concerns me is that may take some rather good technologies with it, and that the unlucky happenstance of a company with an awesome technology simply being badly managed going under and delaying entry of that technology into the mass market is probably going to happen.

The entrance of Chinese panel manufacturers into the market has not helped Western firms.

The Chinese subsidizing their solar manufacturers may quite give them the edge when it comes to economies of scale that provide a long-term competitive advantage.

I'm not so much concerned about technologies being lost. If the tech from the company that went under is good enough to make money on, someone still in business is going to get it.

China subsidizing their industry is a concern, but the discussion about what to do (if anything) about that gets into tariffs, trade wars and such.

[boutons_deux]

China spends about $30B/year on subsidies, and there all kinds of cheap lands and buildings available and of course the labor is super cheap.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I was reading about how our companies are trying to get tariffs on chinese imports claiming that they were dumping the market trying to drive them out of business.

[boutons_deux]

but several US importers are dead set against the tariffs, they'd rather buy than make

[cheguevara]

china wiping the floor with its competitors

[MannyIsGod]

The global slowdown in the West has crimped demand greatly.

This will weed out a lot of marginal companies.

What concerns me is that may take some rather good technologies with it, and that the unlucky happenstance of a company with an awesome technology simply being badly managed going under and delaying entry of that technology into the mass market is probably going to happen.

The entrance of Chinese panel manufacturers into the market has not helped Western firms.

The Chinese subsidizing their solar manufacturers may quite give them the edge when it comes to economies of scale that provide a long-term competitive advantage.

Yes. There was an NPR program - I believe it was talk of the nation but maybe it was science friday - that talked about this recently. American producers want (who doesn't want subsidies - I know I know) some help or some actions to compete with the Chinese subsidization. I don't think trying to fight with tarrifs really helps much since it just raises the price. I think instead fighting fire with fire might be an option to be considered but I don't see it happening so I guess its moot.

We'll all be driving Chinese solar panels.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yes. There was an NPR program - I believe it was talk of the nation but maybe it was science friday - that talked about this recently. American producers want (who doesn't want subsidies - I know I know) some help or some actions to compete with the Chinese subsidization. I don't think trying to fight with tarrifs really helps much since it just raises the price. I think instead fighting fire with fire might be an option to be considered but I don't see it happening so I guess its moot.

We'll all be driving Chinese solar panels.

I'm not sure I see how cheap solar panels are a problem.

[MannyIsGod]

Chinese government subsidizes panels allowing Chinese companies to gain a huge grip on market and drive competitors from other nations not operation with subsidies out of business. Prices then go up, or at the very least don't fall as fast as they could with more competition. Jobs that involves the renewable industry are then not located outside of China and no country is able to ramp up production because they've not developed the base sine China was able to force their companies out of business.

A lot of exaggeration for affect and to make the point clear, but there are definitely detriments when your companies are competing with others who's bottom line is helped out to a huge deal by the government - especially in an emerging industry.

[coyotes_geek]

I'm not sure I see how cheap solar panels are a problem.

Depends whether you're looking at expansion of the solar industry as a whole or specifically how many Americans we might be able to employ in that field.

[MannyIsGod]

I also have a bad taste in my mouth due to Chinese mass production. Are Chinese solar panels the next lead laced toys or toxic drywall waiting to happen?

[CosmicCowboy]

Chinese government subsidizes panels allowing Chinese companies to gain a huge grip on market and drive competitors from other nations not operation with subsidies out of business. Prices then go up, or at the very least don't fall as fast as they could with more competition. Jobs that involves the renewable industry are then not located outside of China and no country is able to ramp up production because they've not developed the base sine China was able to force their companies out of business.

A lot of exaggeration for affect and to make the point clear, but there are definitely detriments when your companies are competing with others who's bottom line is helped out to a huge deal by the government - especially in an emerging industry.

Or you could look at it as the Chinese Government subsidizing the world to switch to renewable energy...I would think you would approve of that.

[MannyIsGod]

I believe solar power is an inevitability. Viewed as such, China isn't helping anything but their own position in the future. Good for China, not really good for us.

[MannyIsGod]

Or in the very least, not as good as it could be. Cheap energy - especially the renewable sort - is good for everyone.

[Wild Cobra]

but several US importers are dead set against the tariffs, they'd rather buy than make
If that is true, which coming from you, I question, then I say too bad. We need more US jobs. They can manufacture here. Not there.

[Spurminator]

Guess we'll have to invade China and convert them to capitalism.

[CosmicCowboy]

Guess we'll have to invade China and convert them to capitalism.

:lol

Damn insidious commie bastards daring to sell us cheap solar panels...

[coyotes_geek]

Guess we'll have to invade China and convert them to capitalism.

Could be tricky since we'd have to ask them for a loan first in order to fund the operation.

[CosmicCowboy]

Guess we'll have to invade China and convert them to capitalism.

Why do you think Obama sent those 2500 Marines to Australia?...:lol

[Spurminator]

Could be tricky since we'd have to ask them for a loan first in order to fund the operation.

:lol Good point.

[101A]

Not news to me.

Wife fancies herself an environmentalist - and a principled investor.

Took a f*&^%ing bath on a couple of solar companies.

Thread sucks.

[TDMVPDPOY]

tariffs dont do shit, if the govt doesnt support the local system in place with incentives to make it beneficial to the consumer to purchase...cutting the rebates and prices sold back to the grid, doesnt make it look beneficial to the consumer long term....consumers could give a shit about the climate anyway when they try to decrease as much spending and trying to squeeze out a buck profit....

[Winehole23]

China spends about $30B/year on subsidies, and there all kinds of cheap lands and buildings available and of course the labor is super cheap.Opportunity beckons, mr. boss man!

[TeyshaBlue]

I dunno. Im pretty underwhelmed with the quality of goods from China. I cant imagine what the QC would be like for their panels.

[boutons_deux]

North American Photovoltaic Market Set to Double Year over Year in Q4’11

“PV is now positioned to take significant market share from other energy sources as it approaches grid parity in some regions. Downstream companies are facing enormous challenges to adapt to rapidly changing channel structure and business models in order to successfully participate in that opportunity,” said Craig Stevens, President of NPD Solarbuzz.

In Q4’11, the North America photovoltaic market is forecast to grow 33% Q/Q and 101% Y/Y. Q4'11 installations of more than 0.8 GW of PV capacity are expected, resulting in a total demand of over 2.2 GW in 2011.

http://www.altenergymag.com/emagazine/2011/11/north-american-photovoltaic-market-set-to-double-year-over-year-in-q4%E2%80%9911/1822

[boutons_deux]

SolarCity and Bank of America Merrill Lynch Move Forward With Project SolarStrong, Expected to Build More Than $1 Billion in Solar Projects

SAN MATEO, Calif., & NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--SolarCity and Bank of America Merrill Lynch today announced that they have agreed to terms on financing for SolarStrong, SolarCity's ambitious five-year plan to build more than $1 billion in solar power projects for privatized U.S. military housing communities across the country. As part of the project, SolarCity plans to partner with the country's leading privatized military housing developers to install, own and operate rooftop solar installations and provide solar electricity at a lower cost than utility power. SolarStrong is ultimately expected to create up to 300 megawatts of solar generation capacity that could provide power to as many as 120,0001 military housing units. SolarStrong would be the largest residential solar photovoltaic project in American history.

"This project demonstrates the long term viability of large-scale, distributed solar generation," said Jonathan Plowe, head of New Energy and Infrastructure Solutions at BofA Merrill. "We are excited to see the project through with SolarCity and extend our expertise and financing capabilities to propel residential solar to the next level."

Private equity firm U.S. Renewables Group (USRG) served as financial advisor for SolarStrong. When SolarCity began to plan SolarStrong in mid-2010, the company did not believe it could secure financing for a project of such a scope without a loan guarantee from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE). SolarCity and USRG began the loan guarantee application process under DOE's Section 1705 loan guarantee program in October 2010, and BofA Merrill subsequently joined the application as lender. The DOE announced a conditional commitment of a partial loan guarantee for SolarStrong on Sept. 7, 2011, but the parties were unable to finalize the loan before the Sept. 30 program deadline. SolarCity and BofA Merrill continued to work to close SolarStrong without the loan guarantee.

http://www.altenergymag.com/news/2011/12/01/solarcity-and-bank-of-america-merrill-lynch-move-forward-with-project-solarstrong-expected-to-build-more-than-1-billion-in-solar-projects/22357

[boutons_deux]

San Luis Solar Ranch

http://news.cnet.com/2300-11128_3-10010152.html?tag=newsletter&tag=nl.e434