Spurs reportedly interested in Caron Butler

[chazley]

Per espn.com:

"The NBA relaxed the lockout rules and permitted teams to contact players' agents beginning at 8 a.m. CT. Those that quickly expressed interest in the 6-foot-7 Butler are the San Antonio Spurs (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=sas), Miami Heat (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=mia), Los Angeles Lakers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lal), Los Angeles Clippers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lac), New Jersey Nets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=njn) and Chicago Bulls (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=chi)."


I don't see him coming, but still interesting that they're putting feelers out to his agent. Could it be possible that we see RJ amnestied this season, instead of next?

[stephen jackson]

why.. smh.
please lord get a fuckin center... every fuckin year wit this bullshit

[Dex]

why.. smh.
please lord get a fuckin center... every fuckin year wit this bullshit

Seriously, if the Spurs load up on more goddamn shooting guards and undersized forwards, I am going to :pctoss.

The only need for a guard is if we go after a backup point, and that's only if they feel that Neal can't handle the responsibility.

[Obstructed_View]

I think the list of 6'6" swingmen that the Spurs are NOT interested in would be shorter...

[angelbelow]

Agreed, Bulter would have been extremely intriguing in the pre-RJ era. Now that we have a chance to look at JA and KL I don't see adding Bulter as a good idea because I dont think he would put us over the top anyway.

[chazley]

I'd prefer to give Splitter a chance to play alongside Duncan until ASB to see if Tiago has a future with our team as a starter/building block. We can make the necessary trades/adjustments at the trade deadline.

[rascal]

Bring in Butler and upload Jefferson.

[Spurminator]

Bring in Butler and upload Jefferson.

Upload Jefferson to what, and how?

[Dex]

Upload Jefferson to what, and how?


You have no chance to survive make your time.

Ha ha ha.

[Nathan89]

Nothing about this makes any sense to me.

[TimmehC]

Smokescreen.

Or maybe RC's on his "diabetes medication" again.

[portnoy1]

It would be nice if they stopped trying to make sideway moves.

[baseline bum]

why.. smh.
please lord get a fuckin center... every fuckin year wit this bullshit

The Spurs already have two centers. If they can go out and get someone like Nene who can guard 4s then that would be sweet, but otherwise they have no need for a 5.

[DesignatedT]

Them contacting Butler could be a good thing.

1. I doubt they seriously consider signing a SF with RJ still on the roster, this means they believe they can get rid of him one way or another

2. Butler could be had at bargain given the injury he suffered, but before he went down he was still a very good player who can create his own shot. Much better player than RJ.

Id take him in a heartbeat if we could unload RJ for a decent big.

[therealtruth]

The Spurs already have two centers. If they can go out and get someone like Nene who can guard 4s then that would be sweet, but otherwise they have no need for a 5.

I know. Duncan really locked down Marc Gasol.

[therealtruth]

Them contacting Butler could be a good thing.

1. I doubt they seriously consider signing a SF with RJ still on the roster, this means they believe they can get rid of him one way or another

2. Butler could be had at bargain given the injury he suffered, but before he went down he was still a very good player who can create his own shot. Much better player than RJ.

Id take him in a heartbeat if we could unload RJ for a decent big.

He might be able to create his own shot but that's not necessarily mean he would do well in the Spurs system. He's a ball stopper. That's a big part of the reason the Spurs were able to beat them last playoffs. They encouraged him to do his thing on offense to the detriment of Dirk and the team.

[rascal]

They need to snake out the roster. Get rid of the rat.

[baseline bum]

I know. Duncan really locked down Marc Gasol.

LOL, you're going to bury Duncan for Gasol having one really big game against him? So is Duncan your 6th man or what?

[DesignatedT]

I know. Duncan really locked down Marc Gasol.

Duncan constantly having to cheat over and help Blair/Bonner on Randolph freed up Gasol the majority of the time.

[rascal]

Upload Jefferson to what, and how?

Upload Jefferson to a hard drive, out of town.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

I know. Duncan really locked down Marc Gasol.
yea i know its not like duncan didnt have other great defender next to him in bonner and blair. :rolleyes

[rascal]

The Lakers are always mentioned with every player that may be on the move.

[Ice009]

The Spurs might be interested in Butler, but I'm not interested at ALL.

[lefty]

why.. smh.
please lord get a fuckin center... every fuckin year wit this bullshit

Amen

[slick'81]

we may have our c in splitter if he starts if not we still need a 4/5 to start next to timmy

butlers ok but like many have said not sure where he fits in with rj still in town

[therealtruth]

LOL, you're going to bury Duncan for Gasol having one really big game against him? So is Duncan your 6th man or what?

My point was that they want somebody who can defend 4's and 5's. That way Duncan can take the more convenient matchup which may not always be the 5. Right now out of necessity he has to defend the 5 and still sometimes help with the 4.

[DesignatedT]

Problem with starting Duncan/Splitter is they are both true centers at this point their careers. Spurs need to get a a big who can score and guard the 4 position.

[gospursgojas]

Remember Stephen Jackson

[Drewlius]

lol, if they are actually going to try & add a big name who is going to garner a price tag, please for the love of god give me Dalembert.

[DesignatedT]

lol, if they are actually going to try & add a big name who is going to garner a price tag, please for the love of god give me Dalembert.

Different price tag.

[Obstructed_View]

Problem with starting Duncan/Splitter is they are both true centers at this point their careers. Spurs need to get a a big who can score and guard the 4 position.

Sorry, how exactly is that a problem? Duncan and Splitter didn't have any problem defending Gasol or Randolph, it was Bonner and Dice who were getting raped.

[baseline bum]

It's too bad Sideshow Bob is coming off a season-ending injury, as he would be a really good fit.

[Obstructed_View]

It's too bad Sideshow Bob is coming off a season-ending injury, as he would be a really good fit.

Actually, what little chance the Spurs might have would be because people have forgotten about him due to the injury.

[Big P]

What about the Euro we got in the GHill trade....Lorbek?

[TimmehC]

What about the Euro we got in the GHill trade....Lorbek?

Problem is bolded. He's under contract in Europe. Next summer, maybe, but not now.

[Chomag]

I have a hard time seeing how this move would make much sense. Unless spurs are for sure off-loading RJ somehow it's a pretty redundant move and a waste of money that could be used elsewhere.

RC at the drink again?

[baseline bum]

Actually, what little chance the Spurs might have would be because people have forgotten about him due to the injury.

Wow, just now seeing that the last year of his deal is a team option, I might not mind pursuing him anyways.

[SequSpur]

This is a stupid article...

[Ice009]

Duncan constantly having to cheat over and help Blair/Bonner on Randolph freed up Gasol the majority of the time.

I think Tim said this after one of the games. I think he said he didn't give Gasol the proper attention he should have because he was drifting over to Randolph too much and giving Gasol more room than he should have.

[therealtruth]

I think Tim said this after one of the games. I think he said he didn't give Gasol the proper attention he should have because he was drifting over to Randolph too much and giving Gasol more room than he should have.

We need bigs that can allow us to play single coverage in the post. Same thing on the perimeter. Memphis basically played single coverage while we were playing too much help defense. Too much help gave the Grizzlies, who were a poor perimeter shooting team, plenty of wide open looks.

[Ice009]

Odd for sure. Good pick up if we can get him. I think SA is looking to deal some young players for a big along with RJ. SA wants Manu off the bench. They know the only way to get a big is gonna be a sign and trade.

You're back again? What about that trade you talked about in regards to Beno and Jason Thompson the other day? The one where you had no idea Beno was even traded to Milwaukee. Where exactly are you getting this inside info from?

[mingus]

i'd rather develop JA, Leonard, and Neal.

[ElNono]

Spurs will be shopping RJ+filler for anything that makes sense... Problem is nobody is touching RJ's contract with a 10 foot pole, so I don't really expect much movement at all.

[slick'81]

Spurs will be shopping RJ+filler for anything that makes sense... Problem is nobody is touching RJ's contract with a 10 foot pole, so I don't really expect much movement at all.


4real sure in theory it works but wtf wants rj and that contract?!?

[Fireball]

Sorry, how exactly is that a problem? Duncan and Splitter didn't have any problem defending Gasol or Randolph, it was Bonner and Dice who were getting raped.

Well, playing Splitter and Duncan together currently means that Bonner and Blair need to sub in for them. And that combo is a defensive nightmare. Therefore you need another big PF/C, otherwise TD and Splitter can only stay on the court together for very limited minutes.

[ElNono]

Run n gun baby... Who needs D? :lol

[Ditty]

Spurs will be shopping RJ+filler for anything that makes sense... Problem is nobody is touching RJ's contract with a 10 foot pole, so I don't really expect much movement at all.

Maybe a team has a few players they want to amnesty with longer contracts, and that is owed more money as RJ throughout the next few years. So Spurs can trade RJ for those 2 or 3 players that could help the Spurs out these next few years that a possible rebuilding team may not need. Jared Dudley & Josh Childress are combined owed $20 million more then RJ throughout there current contracts. That could save Suns alot of money if they Amnesty RJ, while getting rid of there 2 worst contracts for players that can help us out, and give the Suns more cap room throughout the years.

[spurs10]

Problem with starting Duncan/Splitter is they are both true centers at this point their careers. Spurs need to get a a big who can score and guard the 4 position.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!

[stephen jackson]

Run n gun baby... Who needs D? :lol
might as well go the suns route :toast

[mountainballer]

all I did was cut and past
Oh, really? Who would have guessed?

[chazley]

RJ+Blair+2012 first round pick for Kaman. Do it.

[TDMVPDPOY]

RJ+Blair+2012 first round pick for Kaman. Do it.

givin up alot for kaman....

centers will be in demand this FA...

the warriors are shopping ellis for rudy gay....

i want rudy or dorell wright (has improve alot)

[benefactor]

The Sac trade has been discussed last season, all I did was cut and past, matters not who would be fill in for Beno...The point is SA would get rid of RJ, while picking up a very good big that is getting lost in the Sac remake.

Dude one of my short and curleys has more BBall info than you so STFU.

If SA is looking at Battier and Butler right off the bat, and they know they need a big, a trade attempt will be made to improve the front court.....as I said days ago and TP just confirmed.

Lots of trades have been discussed that I like that would give us front court help......we will see what happens.
:lol Everyone on here has been talking about the Spurs trading for a big.

lol deflecting to try to cover up the fact that you have been full of shit since you started posting here.

[Mel_13]

The Sac trade has been discussed last season, all I did was cut and past, matters not who would be fill in for Beno...The point is SA would get rid of RJ, while picking up a very good big that is getting lost in the Sac remake.

Dude one of my short and curleys has more BBall info than you so STFU.

If SA is looking at Battier and Butler right off the bat, and they know they need a big, a trade attempt will be made to improve the front court.....as I said days ago and TP just confirmed.

Lots of trades have been discussed that I like that would give us front court help......we will see what happens.

http://rlv.zcache.com/stop_digging_postcard-p239102719320455771qibm_400.jpg

[silverblackfan]

Meh. The Spurs name are always used when the agents are fishing for a new contract.

[Obstructed_View]

Well, playing Splitter and Duncan together currently means that Bonner and Blair need to sub in for them. And that combo is a defensive nightmare. Therefore you need another big PF/C, otherwise TD and Splitter can only stay on the court together for very limited minutes.

Bonner and Blair don't have to sub in for them at the same time. Clearly there needs to be a Dice replacement found, but Duncan and Splitter can play minutes together and one or the other can be on the floor during virtually the entire game.

[Fireball]

This 5th big really is necessary, otherwise Tiago had to play heavy minutes to make your calculation work as I expect Timmy to only play 26-28 minutes per game.

[baseline bum]

RJ+Blair+2012 first round pick for Kaman. Do it.

Kaman is a huge expiring, so you're going to have to do way better than that.

[yavozerb]

Kaman is a huge expiring, so you're going to have to do way better than that.

agreed..Kaman's expiring contract is the Clippers ace in the hole: you get a 29 year old above average 7 footer, 12+ mil exp. contract, and a chance to keep him long term with an extension. This contract is being saved for the big dogs available for trade, not the spurs I am sorry to say...

[portnoy1]

This 5th big really is necessary, otherwise Tiago had to play heavy minutes to make your calculation work as I expect Timmy to only play 26-28 minutes per game.
I actually believe Duncan play more minutes if you start him with splitter. Simply because he doesn't have to multi-task. Spurs have him trying to protect the lane and defend 2 big guys at the same time. With Splitter his load is reduced 50% i'd say.

Teams like to involve duncan in PnR's so that he is out of the paint ( cause blair, bonner sad to say even dice to extent are there and they really dont have height or length to protect the paint). With Splitter if Duncan is out the paint, splitter can rotate over and pull and oberto by taking a charge or simply put his arms straight up for a clean effective contest.

Also Splitters footwork on D is pretty good allowing to stay in front of most 4's and not need an immense amount of help from Tim. That tandem helps them on offense to. While it doesn't space the floor for TP, it provides low-post scoring which is better then your point guard running around.

Duncan can't get 20pts in the low-block like before, but maybe 12 from him and 8 from splitter will get the job done. Its going to require that Parker sacrifice some shots and make a legit effort to throw the ball down there.

[Fireball]

I actually believe Duncan play more minutes if you start him with splitter. Simply because he doesn't have to multi-task. Spurs have him trying to protect the lane and defend 2 big guys at the same time. With Splitter his load is reduced 50% i'd say.

If TD is on the court, he works his ass off. If he saves some energy due to Splitters help on defense he might use it in other ways. Therefore Pop will further limit TDs minutes in the regular season.

[portnoy1]

If TD is on the court, he works his ass off. If he saves some energy due to Splitters help on defense he might use it in other ways. Therefore Pop will further limit TDs minutes in the regular season.
Other ways as in scoring on the low-block im hoping. This drive and kick nonsense is killing me. Pop needs to establish something on the block with him and Splitter.

[Spurs Brazil]

NBA free-agent buzz: Butler eyes Clips, Bulls
Caron Butler, one of the most pursued small forwards in this year’s free-agent class, privately considers the Los Angeles Clippers and Chicago Bulls as his two most preferred destinations, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Butler is most attracted to the Bulls because of the chance to play with Derrick Rose and compete for a title, but he would have to take significantly less money to play in Chicago. The Bulls have a stronger need for a shooting guard and could ultimately spend their money there. Ultimately, that leaves the Clippers with an edge over the New Jersey Nets among the suitors with the most significant cap space and a need for a starting small forward.
“He sees the Clippers with a more stable foundation of players,” one source familiar with Butler’s thinking said. “He isn’t sure about Deron Williams’ future in New Jersey, and having a chance to win will be a big part of this.”

Butler played only 29 games in the Dallas Mavericks’ title run a season ago, missing the remainder with a right knee injury. At 31 years old, he’s checked out healthy again and remains a primary target for several teams looking for a small forward.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ah_bEOI2s_kuMIOdDLNUPyK8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_free_agency_113011

[DPG21920]

I like Kaman well enough, but I've soured on him enough to know there is no way in hell I trade a first round pick for him.

[TD 21]

Kaman lacks focus, is injury prone and would be a poor fit next to Duncan, because he's a plodder and he can't guard power forwards. The only center that might start next to Duncan is Splitter and if he does, it'll be because they couldn't acquire a starting power forward and won't have another starting caliber big on the roster. In other words, it'll be by default.

Unless they can somehow pull off a trade for Jefferson, I think they'll pursue athleticism/mobility more than size/strength inside.

[stephen jackson]

kaman the savior :spin

[DPG21920]

I know we need a big man. I know a Tiago/Tim combo has it's issues. But I'm telling you that as long as Tim holds up and Tiago adjusts some to the game, the Spurs with that combo will be much better off. The defense will dramatically improve and even with the Spacing issues, I think they will be fine. TP/Manu ensure that.

[TimmehC]

I will laugh so hard when the Clips use Kaman as the primary piece to land Dwight.

[DPG21920]

Kaman will not be the primary piece. If it doesn't include Gordon or Griffin, IMO Clips have no shot at Dwight.

[TD 21]

I know we need a big man. I know a Tiago/Tim combo has it's issues. But I'm telling you that as long as Tim holds up and Tiago adjusts some to the game, the Spurs with that combo will be much better off. The defense will dramatically improve and even with the Spacing issues, I think they will be fine. TP/Manu ensure that.

The Spurs need a big man, not so much to avoid playing Duncan/Splitter together, but to avoid playing Bonner/Blair together. Even with the inevitable mixing and matching (by which I mean, playing Duncan/Bonner together and small ball; can't see playing Splitter/Blair together, unless one has developed at least a semi-reliable mid range jumper), playing Duncan/Splitter together would mean Bonner/Blair would play plenty together, because Duncan is unlikely to exceed 30 mpg and Splitter 25 mpg. And whatever good Duncan/Splitter provided defensively, Bonner/Blair would ruin.

[elemento]

I don´t think the Clips have to offer Griffin or Gordon to land Howard.

If they get one the Magic bad contracts (Hedo or Arenas) and give the Magic the 1st from Minny, a future Clips 1st, Bledsoe, Aminu and Kaman's expiring, there isn't a team that can offer a better package (OKC maybe if they're willing to let Westbrook go)

[DPG21920]

That trade doesn't even come close to working salary wise.

[Mel_13]

That trade doesn't even come close to working salary wise.

Clips have a ton of cap space. Depending on the exact amount, it would work or come close. They would probably have to let Jordan walk or add him as an S&T to the deal.

[The Truth #6]

Why would anyone want RJ? They already didn't want him before the draft. We have no realistic trade assets. Tiago is our second best big, and unless a miracle happens, will still be our second best big when the season starts. In other words, deal with it.

We're basically in rebuilding mode already. Might as well develop what players we have. Holt is not likely to break the bank to bring in some savior, who most likely doesn't even want to play for Holt. I wish they could put a great player next to Tim on the block for his last season but it doesn't seem likely.

[Obstructed_View]

That trade doesn't even come close to working salary wise.

The old CBA doesn't really apply anymore, does it?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Butler has been declining, he's had serious injuries, not a good 3pt shooter, and he's 31. Basically, he's just about to become RJ. Wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

[crc21209]

Not sure if I'd even take a chance on Butler. Hasnt this guy been injured for most of his career? Even though RJ sucked, at least he stayed healthy all of last year. That, and now we have Leonard and James Anderson in case RJ really sucks it up this year....

[DPG21920]

Clips have a ton of cap space. Depending on the exact amount, it would work or come close. They would probably have to let Jordan walk or add him as an S&T to the deal.

That's true. I need to think before I post sometimes.

[Obstructed_View]

Butler has been declining, he's had serious injuries, not a good 3pt shooter, and he's 31. Basically, he's just about to become RJ.

Great, maybe the Spurs will sign him to a long-term contract and we can listen to how much money the Spurs saved by spending 30 million dollars more on him.

[The Truth #6]

It was amazing how many people dedicated themselves to defending that contract at the time.

[DMC]

The Lakers are always mentioned with every player that may be on the move.
Truth.

They are all going to LA. The Lakers are going to have a 40 man roster.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Great, maybe the Spurs will sign him to a long-term contract and we can listen to how much money the Spurs saved by spending 30 million dollars more on him.

Don't get me started... I'll dig up the thread from when it happened where I ranted about what a fucked up decision that was, get ragged on, then proven completely correct in all aspects by the end of the season! ;)

Fuck it, here it is:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163767

:lmao

[beachwood]

I hope this means Caron Butler grew 4 or 5 inches during the lockout.

[Obstructed_View]

I hope this means Caron Butler grew 4 or 5 inches during the lockout.

The Spurs wouldn't be interested in him unless he also aged 7-9 years during that same stretch.

[timtonymanu]

Doubt he will come here anyway.

I don't want him here either unless we are unloading RJ.

[AFBlue]

Him and Howard are both buy-low candidates with bigger upside and better all-around games than RJ. If they can get either at half the price and dump RJ then it just makes good sense to do so.

[ace3g]

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Spurs making a big push for Caron Butler. Check out the HangTime Blog, on NBA.com: on.nba.com/cQBz1w


http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/

[yavozerb]

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Spurs making a big push for Caron Butler. Check out the HangTime Blog, on NBA.com: on.nba.com/cQBz1w


http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/

The most the spurs can offer is the mle, is this correct?

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

The most the spurs can offer is the mle, is this correct?
the mini MLE which is 3 mil.

[Fireball]

Are they really serious?

[benefactor]

If there is any truth to this at all then Richard Jefferson has played his last game in a Spurs uniform.

[Big P]

the mini MLE which is 3 mil.

Use amnesty on rj and we could offer the full MLE.

[DPG21920]

It is just really hard to imagine the Spurs paying 15M for Caron Butler (MLE of 5M + the ~10M for RJ they will be paying if he plays or not if amnesty is used on him). Because by all accounts, the Spurs would still be LT payers if the amnesty RJ and use the full MLE.

[portnoy1]

I still dont get it.....What are they expecting from Butler? For him to stand around the arc and shoot 3's like they made RJ do all last season. That really irritates me, they sit there pondering all these players to get to replace RJ (i'm figuring) while thinking its RJ is not that bad. The Spurs offense is GARBAGE not RJ. Looking at them go after Butler makes me wonder if they were better off trying to get Maggette a few seasons ago.

RJ doesn't have the guts to call someone out (like Parker) where as a more self-centered player like Maggette or maybe to a lesser extent Butler won't put up with Parker not finding them on the break, not giving the ball when their posted up or just downright calling them off to clear out, when he wants to go one on one.

[spurs50_]

doesn't matter what sf spurs pick up cause leonard's gonna smoke that joker.

[Fireball]

doesn't matter what sf spurs pick up cause leonard's gonna smoke that joker.

Lets hope so ...

[DPG21920]

IMO, if it's an RJ trade it makes sense. I don't see them using the amnesty then using the full MLE. Even though it's not a huge upgrade, I think what they want from Caron vs RJ is attitude. Caron won't get punked. He's a much better competitor even if the ability isn't there like it used to be. I think that is what they want from him. Plus, even though I think it's fluke, Caron shot 43% from 3 last season.

[portnoy1]

IMO, if it's an RJ trade it makes sense. I don't see them using the amnesty then using the full MLE. Even though it's not a huge upgrade, I think what they want from Caron vs RJ is attitude. Caron won't get punked. He's a much better competitor even if the ability isn't there like it used to be. I think that is what they want from him. Plus, even though I think it's fluke, Caron shot 43% from 3 last season.
once again with the 3pt shooting. It seems that every free agent that is looked at has to have some kind of jumpshot or SF has to be a knock down 3pt shooter. What if the Spurs used a small forward to do a number of things along with shoot the 3? Say he posted up, came off curls and shot 3's. That kind of balance from a player could help the Spurs. Instead they expect their SF to turn into knock down shooters even though thats one aspect (its really only a stat) of their game. They limit them for some reason.

They get guys who drive or post first and shoot 3's second, when they really need guys who shoot 3's first and drive second (Pietrus).

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

They have to amnesty RJ if they get Butler. Keeping the two around just makes no sense at all.

On second thought, this is probably exactly what will happen.

[portnoy1]

They have to amnesty RJ if they get Butler. Keeping the two around just makes no sense at all.

On second thought, this is probably exactly what will happen.
What has happened to this Franchise? What happened to all the genius front office moves and defensive philosphy? Somehing I would love to see is for the Spurs to bring in Jerry Sloan as lead assistant and specifically run the offense, while the head coach is still pop and he only coaches defense, kinda like in football. A pipedream I know, but still.

[DPG21920]

They have to amnesty RJ if they get Butler. Keeping the two around just makes no sense at all.

On second thought, this is probably exactly what will happen.

You would think they have to get rid of RJ in order to bring in Caron, but unless RJ is gone via trade I just don't see the Spurs using the amnesty on RJ and spending money on anyone (at least at the MLE level). That would essentially be paying whomever that is 15M dollars.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

You would think they have to get rid of RJ in order to bring in Caron, but unless RJ is gone via trade I just don't see the Spurs using the amnesty on RJ and spending money on anyone (at least at the MLE level). That would essentially be paying whomever that is 15M dollars.
this. everyone talks about them trying to find a replacment to use amnesty on RJ. only logic reason is that they have some optional RJ trades and have confidence they will go through.

Spurs are not the lakers people. cant afford to pay an extra 10 mil for no reason.

[lcroock]

The Spurs will not eat $30M in salary. Granted that this is not net of the luxury tax savings but I'd be stunned if they use the amnesty on RJ. How much in luxury tax saved is it, 3 or 4 mil? RJ will be traded for another bad contract, the question is who.

[DPG21920]

The Spurs will not eat $30M in salary. Granted that this is not net of the luxury tax savings but I'd be stunned if they use the amnesty on RJ. How much in luxury tax saved is it, 3 or 4 mil? RJ will be traded for another bad contract, the question is who.

In theory, if they amnesty RJ and stay under the LT, they would save about 4M in LT payments and also receive about 3M (could be different, just used for purpose to illustrate point), so that would be a net 7M gain. However, if they amnesty RJ and use the MLE (like people are saying), they will likely be over the LT line again which is why I see it as unlikely.

[Nathan89]

A move like this would indicate to me that the Spurs might have eyes on a defensive big only. Since they can't take the scoring pressure off of Tim with a big they are going after a more offensive sf. Also for the Spurs to spend more money I see them not gaining money and possibly saving money in the trade. The only player that fits all the criteria IMO is Anderson Varejao.

Rj+Blair+2nd round pick
for
A.Varejao+scrub

[jjktkk]

once again with the 3pt shooting. It seems that every free agent that is looked at has to have some kind of jumpshot or SF has to be a knock down 3pt shooter. What if the Spurs used a small forward to do a number of things along with shoot the 3? Say he posted up, came off curls and shot 3's. That kind of balance from a player could help the Spurs. Instead they expect their SF to turn into knock down shooters even though thats one aspect (its really only a stat) of their game. They limit them for some reason.

They get guys who drive or post first and shoot 3's second, when they really need guys who shoot 3's first and drive second (Pietrus).

So you would like a sf who can post up, shoot 3's, come off curls and score, etc...? Basically a all-star caliber player. That kind of player, short of a miracle, would be pretty much impossible for the Spurs to land.

[jjktkk]

What has happened to this Franchise? What happened to all the genius front office moves and defensive philosphy? Somehing I would love to see is for the Spurs to bring in Jerry Sloan as lead assistant and specifically run the offense, while the head coach is still pop and he only coaches defense, kinda like in football. A pipedream I know, but still.

Father time is the bigeest culprit. Giving were the Spurs usually draft, and their inability to land marquee free agents, I'm not surprised at where this team is defensively. They have tried, in the past, to address their defensive deficiancies thru the draft(Mahimni, Hill,etc...), with limited success. This past draft shows that their still trying to improve their defense with the drafting of Leonard and Joseph. Going forward, the only way the Spurs can improve their defense is thru a trade of some kind, along with a free agent sigining or two.

[stephen jackson]

im guessing rj is about to be traded or else this is stupid.
still dont see why hed pick us over the bulls.

[eric365]

However, if they amnesty RJ and use the MLE (like people are saying), they will likely be over the LT line again which is why I see it as unlikely.

Spurs current payroll is at $75.4 million and would drop to $66.2 million if they use the amnesty clause on RJ and even at $63.6 million if Dice is retiring and his contract is not used in a trade

The tax is at $70 million so they could use the MLE or part of the MLE and not be in the LT

[DPG21920]

Spurs current payroll is at $75.4 million and would drop to $66.2 million if they use the amnesty clause on RJ and even at $63.6 million if Dice is retiring and his contract is not used in a trade

The tax is at $70 million so they could use the MLE or part of the MLE and not be in the LT

If they amnesty RJ, and use the full MLE they would be at around 69M. If you add in Kawhi's salary which is guaranteed that puts them over the 70M LT line. Is it possible to be under the LT if they amnesty RJ and use the full MLE, yes, just not likely.

Even in your scenario where they are at 66.2M, if they use the full MLE (5M) that already puts them over the LT before you add in Kawhi or anyone else.

[jesterbobman]

I think there are two points that might make an RJ amnesty financially feasible, even if it's signing a SF for the MLE.

Firstly, the bidding for RJ could save money, with another team paying part of his salary. Say a team bids 3 years, 15 million for him. RJ isn't a fit here, but still has talent, so it might be reasonable. That saves us 15 million over 3 years, tax savings this year(~4 million with a $5million MLE), plus improves flexibilty for moves in 2012/2013 for rebuilding(Whether that's signing free agents or taking on a shitty contract to get a good young player.) If the MLE contract is for 3 years, the total cost is 15.7 million, so waiving RJ could save us money, as this is less than combined savings from luxury tax savings and the other teams payments. It's a bit financially risky, but the key point is that if RJ would be paid more in the auction than we pay someone we want to sign, we can save money.

Secondly, the stretch rule means that the payments to RJ are spread over (Remaining Contract yearsx2+1), ie the amount we have to pay RJ is spread over 7 years, not 3, ,lowering the NPV of the payments by ~1million.

I would hope, from a contending POV that it's a trade to try and send TD out a Winner, but there are scenarios under which the amnesty could be used.

[eric365]

Kawhi salary will be between 1.2M and 1.8M depending of the negociation with the spurs.
Until 1.4M the spurs are under the LT line even using the full MLE if RJ and Dice are not coming back
But the MLE would not be enough to fill all the holes of the roster

IMO Spurs should :
- Amnesty on RJ
- Use 1.5M on Kawhi
- Use 2.3M of their MLE or whatever is left under the LT line on a backup PG and/or a vet SF
- Trade the Dice expiring contract and other assets (picks, Blair or Splitter) for a defensive big

[Bruno]

Spurs salary situation for this year:

First, some reasonable assumptions:
- Dice will retire and Spurs will give him the guaranteed part of his contract.
- Leonard and Jospeh will get 100% of the rookie scale.
- Blair and Neal will be kept.
- I'm' not counting Green and Butler because their contract are non guaranteed and both could be waived.

Players under contract:
Duncan: $21.16M
Ginobili: $12.98M
Parker: $12.5M
Jefferson: $9.28M
Splitter: $3.67M
Bonner: $3.37M
McDyess*: $2.64M
Leonard: $1.44M
Anderson: $1.4M
Blair: $0.99M
Joseph: $0.86M
Neal: $0.85M (against the tax)

For a total of $71.14M for 11 players.

The luxury tax should be of $70.31M. Spurs are $0.83m above it and they still must add between 2 and 4 players.

So, some conclusions:
- If Spurs don't use the amnesty clause or don't do a trade, they will be at least $2.5M above the tax.
- If Spurs use the amnesty clause on Dice, they will be able to go just under the tax by taking the cheap road. They can also spend almost the full MLE on a player and pay some tax.
- If Spurs use the amnesty clause on RJ, they can spend the full MLE and stay below the tax.

[eric365]

Bill Simmons has the Spurs payroll at 75.4M :
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7307298/the-first-day-nba-christmas

Bruno, do you know why you don't have as much ? Even with Dice at 5.2M it doesnt match

[Bruno]

Bill Simmons has the Spurs payroll at 75.4M :
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7307298/the-first-day-nba-christmas

Bruno, do you know why you don't have as much ? Even with Dice at 5.2M it doesnt match

Simmons has maybe Butler and Green salaries included which add $1.7M. He can also have rookies getting 120% of the rookie scale which add $0.45M.

[Agloco]

They should be interested in Nene more than Butler tbh

[dbestpro]

Spurs salary situation for this year:

- If Spurs use the amnesty clause on RJ, they can spend the full MLE and stay below the tax.

So based off of this and other posts they can save 4 mil in tax penalty and gain 3 mil it tax reward. It means a 23 mil loss on RJ for 3 years. Caron signed for 5 mil would mean a cost of 12.4 mil per year to switch RJ with Caron. Caron was paid 10.5 mil last year.

Also, going from a contract that pay 10 mil to 5 mil helps keep us under the tax threshold for the next two years. The Spurs could rationalize this to a cash flow exchange of 7 mil per year, rather than the one time savings. In this scenario RJ would cause a loss of 9 mil over the three years, which would provide the same type of economic impact as if RJ was switched for Caron at a net cost of 8 mil per year (including Caron's salary). Looks doable from this persepctive.

[jjktkk]

They should be interested in Nene more than Butler tbh



I would hope they are interested in Nene as well, but how realistic is Nene coming to the Spurs?

[TD 21]

IMO, if it's an RJ trade it makes sense. I don't see them using the amnesty then using the full MLE. Even though it's not a huge upgrade, I think what they want from Caron vs RJ is attitude. Caron won't get punked. He's a much better competitor even if the ability isn't there like it used to be. I think that is what they want from him. Plus, even though I think it's fluke, Caron shot 43% from 3 last season.

Exactly. Unless last season's small sample size from three (28 for 65) wasn't a fluke (which is highly unlikely), he's not nearly as good a three-point shooter and if he was a slightly better defender pre-injury, it's likely he'll be a worse one post-injury. So it can't be said that role-wise, he'd be a better fit and the same goes for Howard. The fact that they're reportedly interested in them and Evans, shows they're focused on adding competitive, tough players.

I can't envision them paying what it would take to amnesty Jefferson and signing Butler (not that I think he'll sign with them anyway; Howard is more likely), so I've got to believe Jefferson, if they're to make a trade for a big, will be part of it.

[Obstructed_View]

Simmons has maybe Butler and Green salaries included which add $1.7M. He can also have rookies getting 120% of the rookie scale which add $0.45M.

First of all, I trust your numbers over anyone else's.

Second, I know it's not much, but I don't think more than one of the recent Spurs picks have gotten 100, much less 120 of the rookie scale.

Third, the Spurs have to try to find some way to trade RJ's contract if they aren't going to keep him. The more I think about it, the more I think using the amnesty clause on him would just be financially disastrous for the Spurs unless that bidding thing allows teams to help pick up the slack for them. I have a feeling they will be very active in helping to write the CBA to make sure that happens.

[rascal]

IMO, if it's an RJ trade it makes sense. I don't see them using the amnesty then using the full MLE. Even though it's not a huge upgrade, I think what they want from Caron vs RJ is attitude. Caron won't get punked. He's a much better competitor even if the ability isn't there like it used to be. I think that is what they want from him. Plus, even though I think it's fluke, Caron shot 43% from 3 last season.

Butler is way better than RJ. If the spurs replace RJ with Butler it is a huge upgrade talentwise.

I have wanted Butler on the Spurs since his rookie season. This would be a great move for the spurs.

[Bruno]

So based off of this and other posts they can save 4 mil in tax penalty and gain 3 mil it tax reward.

I think the savings will be less than that:
- Luxury tax money will be likely prorated. If Spurs are $4M over the threshold they will pain only $3.2M in tax.
- Little luxury tax should be collected this year because of the proration, the new MLE for tax payers and the amnesty rule.
- There is a new rule saying that non paying tax teams can't get more than 50% of the luxury tax money collected. So if 5 teams pay the tax, teams below the tax will only get 1/50th of the money collected and not 1/30th like in the past.

All in all, savings should be around $4.5M and not $7M.


The huge financial key to decide whether or not to amnesty RJ is if a team with cap space will claim a significant part of his contract during the waiving procedure.

[Bruno]

Second, I know it's not much, but I don't think more than one of the recent Spurs picks have gotten 100, much less 120 of the rookie scale.


Anderson got almost 120% (120% in year 1, 115% in year 2, 117% in year 3 and 4).

Lowballing Leonard won' be easy to do because he was a great college player even if he has a small agent. Jospeh was a reach at #29 so Spurs could maybe convince him to sign for 80% of the rookie scale for the first year only.

[Uriel]

Things would be so much simpler if Peter Holt were willing to pay the luxury tax for just one freakin' season.

*sigh*

[DJ Mbenga]

i cant see holt eating RJ's contract. he was the guy that was begging the players to allow them to save the amnesty for more than a year. but doesnt signing butler and forcing to keep jefferson leonard useless. he wont play.

[Nathan89]

Can someone show a picture or point me in the direction to get Butler's fg% in different areas of the court?

[Bruno]

Things would be so much simpler if Peter Holt were willing to pay the luxury tax for just one freakin' season.

*sigh*

Spurs paid 3 times some luxury tax over these past 6 years. It's not a reach to think that Holt will be fine with paying it again this year. For all the reasons given in a previous post of this thread, it's a friendly year for Spurs to go a little over the threshold.

[Obstructed_View]

Things would be so much simpler if Peter Holt were willing to pay the luxury tax for just one freakin' season.

*sigh*

You mean like the year he signed Richard Jefferson to a contract extension?

[Darkwaters]

You mean like the year he signed Richard Jefferson to a contract extension?

Exactly my thoughts

[FuzzyLumpkins]

if there is s sizable increase in revenue sharing then mayhaps he will be willing to up the budget if done in a way that appreciably helps the team. the larger market teams are likely to make noise if teams do not spend the money thats being shared.

[mattyc]

Butler has been declining, he's had serious injuries, not a good 3pt shooter, and he's 31. Basically, he's just about to become RJ. Wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

Holy shit - I would never have said he was 31. Best to look elsewhere in that case.

[Ice009]

Holy shit - I would never have said he was 31. Best to look elsewhere in that case.

How old is RJ? RJ might even be younger?

[Fireball]

How old is RJ? RJ might even be younger?

RJ is 31 as well ...

[Big P]

"A league source said the Bulls planned to meet with Caron Butler, who has been working out in Chicago, on Monday. The Bulls also will talk to other players and other visits will follow." Chicago Tribune

[Pistons < Spurs]

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Caron Butler itinerary: CHI Mon, LAC Mon night/Tue, SAS Tue, NJ Wed, DET Thursday if he hasn't made up his mind yet...

[The_Worlds_finest]

Damn, In my opinion his best chance of another title is with the Spurs. Chi is never going to get past Miami. Lets hope he sees that too!

[Bruno]

Thanks P<S.

It's now official: there is something cooking with RJ.

It's either a trade or the amnesty rule and, to me, the amnesty rule makes little sense. Basketball wise, swapping RJ by Butler is quite a lateral move. Financially wise, amnestying RJ and signing Butler will likely be more expensive than just keeping RJ.

My guess is that Spurs have a trade offer on the table they like. RJ will be gone in this trade and Spurs will get a bigman in return.

[Ditty]

Thanks P<S.

It's now official: there is something cooking with RJ.

It's either a trade or the amnesty rule and, to me, the amnesty rule makes little sense. Basketball wise, swapping RJ by Butler is quite a lateral move. Financially wise, amnestying RJ and signing Butler will likely be more expensive than just keeping RJ.

My guess is that Spurs have a trade offer on the table they like. RJ will be gone in this trade and Spurs will get a bigman in return.

When is the earliest teams can be able to trade?

[Bruno]

When is the earliest teams can be able to trade?

Nothing is definitive for the moment but it should be on December 9th.

[timtonymanu]

IMO, Butler is going to Chicago.

It would surprise me if he picks San Antonio, but who knows?

[DPG21920]

Let's hope this is true, but it is really hard to imagine a trading partner. I'm trying to remember someone the Spurs may have targeted before that would make sense now but that is difficult.

I really hope we don't have to get rid of Kawhi to dump him.

[NASpurs]

Thanks P<S.

It's now official: there is something cooking with RJ.

It's either a trade or the amnesty rule and, to me, the amnesty rule makes little sense. Basketball wise, swapping RJ by Butler is quite a lateral move. Financially wise, amnestying RJ and signing Butler will likely be more expensive than just keeping RJ.

My guess is that Spurs have a trade offer on the table they like. RJ will be gone in this trade and Spurs will get a bigman in return.

:wow I would celebrate like crazy if that came into fruition.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Not exactly Butler related, but figured I'd throw this in here aswell.



MrMichaelLee Michael Lee
Busy week for Josh Howard: He will visit SAS on Tues. Plans to visit CHI, NJN & #wizards, though the dates haven't been set

[timtonymanu]

Assuming what Bruno said will actually happen, I wonder who the trading partner is and who will be involved. I doubt Kawhi gets dumped so fast because they gave up Hill for him. I don't think they would trade Hill just so they could trade the guy they got in return.

[Bruno]

The Josh Howard news makes it even more likely that it's a trade. using the amnesty rule on RJ to sign Howard makes zero sense: Spurs won't save money or get better on the court.

[xtremesteven33]

Ive always though Butler would be a great player in the Spurs system. Hes a tremendous pick/roll player. Something Pop loves everyone to play great. Mason, Hill, and RJ are not great pick/roll players. Butler is and would shred defenses with all the options he would have.

If we could get him, you all would be surprised

[Obstructed_View]

My guess is that Spurs have a trade offer on the table they like. RJ will be gone in this trade and Spurs will get a bigman in return.

http://www.jandjcards.com/store/images/Hedo%20Turkoglu%20F%20Pl.jpg

[Bruno]

^ :lol

If I had to bet on a trade, it would be RJ for Biedrins.
Warriors are trying to sign Tyson Chandler or Nene... :stirpot:

[Ditty]

IMO, Butler is going to Chicago.

It would surprise me if he picks San Antonio, but who knows?

I think Jason Richardson, or Crawford ends up with the bulls.

Butler is more suited for a SF anyways.

I believe the Nets will throw all there money at Chandler, and Nene, and will land one of them, with the other going to the Warriors.

[DPG21920]

Well, I guess you have to look for teams that have some sort of hole at SF and a big man to spare. Not a long list:

UTA
ATL
Maybe GS (they seem to like Wright and drafted Klay Thompson)
CLE

[DPG21920]

So: GS 4 Biedrins, UTA for Millsap or Al Jeff, LAC for Kaman, ATL for Josh Smith?

[DPG21920]

Outside shot of Minny or CLE being the trade partner.

[Ditty]

I'm waiting to hear that "Richard Jefferson will not join the Spurs on Friday for the opening of training camp."

[DPG21920]

Also, Clippers seem to be pretty decent partners.

LAC: Kaman for RJ+whatever
GS: Beidrins for RJ+whatever
UTA: Milsap or Al Jeff for RJ +whatever
CLE: Anderson for RJ+whatever
ATL: Josh Smith for RJ+whatever

[Pistons < Spurs]

Also, Clippers seem to be pretty decent partners.

LAC: Kaman for RJ+whatever
GS: Beidrins for RJ+whatever
UTA: Milsap or Al Jeff for RJ +whatever
CLE: Anderson for RJ+whatever
ATL: Josh Smith for RJ+whatever


Clippers supposedly have interest in Prince (from Compton) too. Kaman (from Michigan) would be a likely sign and candidate.

[DPG21920]

Definitely, my list really isn't from anything I've heard, but what seems logical. There are always more than one option and a million things that can derail a deal. ESPECIALLY WITH THE CLIPPERS a la Spurs getting Camby.

[ezau]

^ :lol

If I had to bet on a trade, it would be RJ for Biedrins.
Warriors are trying to sign Tyson Chandler or Nene... :stirpot:

Biedrins ain't that bad IMHO.

[Giuseppe]

I smell Biedrins.

[Em-City]

from projectspurs...


Caron Butler itinerary: CHI Mon, LAC Mon night/Tue, SAS Tue, NJ Wed, DET Thursday if he hasn't made up his mind yet...

[Buddy Holly]

Jefferson/Blair or Splitter for Deandre Jordan.

[DPG21920]

Jefferson/Blair or Splitter for Deandre Jordan.

If they feel they have a legit shot at Dwight Howard I can see that maybe.

[DPG21920]

I smell Biedrins.

You've always like him as well.

[Nathan89]

I don't think it's Beidrins. Would the Spurs really want to give up the ability to amnesty a player in the future for a guy that missed as many games as he has over the last three years. I don't think so.

[Ditty]

Jefferson/Blair or Splitter for Deandre Jordan.

Wow that would be nice if it was Blair except Splitter. Jordan would be a great center to have for the future, but I think Jordan is going to either Houston or Clippers.

[DPG21920]

I think they can't be too picky when it comes to getting rid of RJ. I don't think amnesty is really an option anyways as I don't see them just ever eating a contract. I think the need for a big means paying 30M to someone, it should be a big.

[Mugen]

i'd like a RJ for Kaman trade better than RJ for DeAndre.

wouldnt be opposed to a RJ for Biedrins trade either but Bieds is a bit redundant with Tiago around.

i just hope we have a new starting SF come opening day.

[DPG21920]

:lol There are a lot of things I wish for, but all in all if the Spurs can get a competent big man for RJ I don't really care. Big men are almost always better assets going forward anyways and there is definitely a need. It would be quite the luxury to get another decent big to pair with Tim then to be able to bring a guy like Tiago off the bench with Manu.

[Nathan89]

A move like this would indicate to me that the Spurs might have eyes on a defensive big only. Since they can't take the scoring pressure off of Tim with a big they are going after a more offensive sf. Also for the Spurs to spend more money I see them not gaining money and possibly saving money in the trade. The only player that fits all the criteria IMO is Anderson Varejao.

Rj+Blair+2nd round pick
for
A.Varejao+scrub

Varejao is my odds on favorite.

[Ice009]

Jefferson/Blair or Splitter for Deandre Jordan.

How you most of you guys rate Deandre Jordan?

I watched him in Summer league last off season a few times and thought he was horrible. I don't know if he wasn't giving it his all or what (I assume he wasn't), but in the game against the Spurs team he was outplayed by nearly all the no name guys the Spurs had on that SL team. That Spurs team also didn't really have any notable big men as Dejuan Blair sat out with an injury, so to me, he really was that awful.

I'm a little surprised he did so well during the NBA season though. I guess Blake Griffin can bring out the excitement and get you to play a little harder.

Anyway, I rate him quite low. He's very athletic, but other than that I don't think he has much game. Not sure how he is defensively (apart from blocking some shots)? Is he an above average defender?

[Buddy Holly]

i'd like a RJ for Kaman trade better than RJ for DeAndre.

Why's that? DeAndre >> Kaman

[Buddy Holly]

How you most of you guys rate Deandre Jordan?

I watched him in Summer league last off season a few times and thought he was horrible. I don't know if he wasn't giving it his all or what (I assume he wasn't), but in the game against the Spurs team he was outplayed by nearly all the no name guys the Spurs had on that SL team. That Spurs team also didn't really have any notable big men as Dejuan Blair sat out with an injury, so to me, he really was that awful.

I'm a little surprised he did so well during the NBA season though. I guess Blake Griffin can bring out the excitement and get you to play a little harder.

Wait, so you dislike him because he sucked in the summer league but excelled in the regular season? :wow

[RodNIc91]

Bruno, amongst the trade candidates you feel likely, apart from biedrins of course, who else would you place your bets on.

[DPG21920]

Varejao is my odds on favorite.

I would like that, but it's kind of hard for me to see for a few reasons.

1) Andy is actually cheaper overall (29M guaranteed vs 30M for RJ)

2) They just traded Hickson for Casspi and they really seem to like him. One assumed he will start. RJ would be an extremely expensive sub.

It's definitely a possibility IMO and if he's fully healthy I would be pretty damn happy with that.

[Ditty]

Yeah finding a big man is alot harder then finding a small forward. I don't know about Utah because Hayward will be a starter, and I doubt that Clippers gave up on Al-Farouq Aminu, if Prince doesn't sign with them, then I think Spurs may have something with the Clippers, but all reports still have the Clippers in the race for Prince.

[DPG21920]

I could see ATL, but I really don't see how it wouldn't take TP to get Smith.

[Ice009]

Wait, so you dislike him because he sucked in the summer league but excelled in the regular season? :wow

What I am saying is that I think his skill level stinks. He couldn't dominate a bunch of summer league players even with his athleticism advantage over most of them. I was surprised he did a lot better in the NBA season, but that's probably because he had better players around him and had more space to work. With a guy that athletic a little space is all you need to throw down a huge dunk.

What do you think of his skill level on both ends of the court? You seem to like him. How about telling me what he is good at, or is the highlight reel dunks and blocks the only things you've seen of him?

[Mugen]

Why's that? DeAndre >> Kaman

i prefer Kaman's post scoring to DeAndre's athleticism. Timmy is more of a pick and pop shooter nowadays meaning we really don't have that great of a post scorer outside of maybe dejuan.

DeAndre doesnt really have much of an offensive game outside of alley oops. his individual post D is pretty lacking as hes more of a weak side shot blocker.

don't get me wrong, i wouldnt be opposed to a RJ for DeAndre deal but i could easily see Pop playing Bon Bon over DeAndre cuz of Bon Bon's high BB IQ :lol

[Ice009]

Why's that? DeAndre >> Kaman

DeAndre would probably be a lot better with a prime Tim Duncan, but ideally, right now we need someone, preferably a PF (I'm not being too picky, a center will do) with some sort of a post game, so I would always choose Kaman over DeAndre if I had a choice between the two.

That's the reason that I am interested in a move for Al Jefferson because Tim needs help with post scoring. He can't carry the whole load by himself down there anymore.

[Mugen]

Aminu is also a pretty good prospect. great length and would instantly be the best perimeter defender on the team.

RJ/Blair for Kaman/Aminu would be an absolute steal assuming Kaman stays healthy.

[chazley]

Per espn.com Rumors:

According to Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ah_bEOI2s_kuMIOdDLNUPyK8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_free_agency_113011), Butler "privately considers" the Bulls and Clippers as "his two most preferred destinations."
Added Wojnarowski: "Butler is most attracted to the Bulls because of the chance to play with Derrick Rose (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3456/derrick-rose) and compete for a title, but he would have to take significantly less money to play in Chicago. The Bulls have a stronger need for a shooting guard, and could ultimately spend their money there."
K.C. Johnson of the Chicago Tribune added this via Twitter (https://twitter.com/#%21/KCJHoop/status/142283816189431808): "Butler has been working out in Chicago. Source close to him said he said this AM, 'I hope I don't have to leave.'"
Such a quote would seem to have the Bulls atop Butler's list right now.
Butler isn't quite a true shooting guard, which is Chicago's biggest need at the moment. But if the Bulls feel he's their best option out of the free agent crop when the dust settles (and he's willing to take less money than other teams would potentially offer him), it's possible they'd sign him to play opposite Rose in the backcourt.

[Bruno]

Bruno, amongst the trade candidates you feel likely, apart from biedrins of course, who else would you place your bets on.

Well, I only consider Biedrins as a likely trade candidate. I don't see the other options evoked in this thread as realistic ones.

[DesignatedT]

Butler hasn't played a full season since like.... ever. Same goes for Josh Howard also.

Ugh why does RJ have to be such a fucking pussy.

[RodNIc91]

And Bruno, what are the good aspects of Biedrins?

[objective]

I'm not pleased with the clear implications that the Spurs are looking at these injured over-30 vets at SF.

Not because it seems to signal the end of RJ. Hell, I love that. The end of RJ in a Spurs uniform would be a day of celebration. RJ is part of the 'Axis of Guaranteed Playoff Failure' along with Matt Bonner and the refusal to put the best players on the court.

But that's not my issue.

I wrote this (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5201041&postcount=18) back in May. And even though it named Battier, it applies even more to Butler and Josh Howard. (Battier is supposed to be a lock for Miami, or at least the media hasn't reported him visiting with San Antonio).


Pursuing Battier I would argue is misguided. Setting aside whether the Spurs could get him (can they afford to spend the money, would he settle to sign with a worse team, etc), there is this issue: he is in decline. He would be better than RJ, but that's not the point.

Furthermore, wanting Battier is just another example of the mindset that led the Spurs to FAIL with Jefferson. The desire for a proven veteran already in decline while simultaneously believing that no 2nd rounder or unproven young player could possibly do the job.

The Spurs should not be looking to add the next Shane Batter; they should be looking to add the next Sam Young.

The Spurs should have on their roster this year their answers to the SF problem: Leonard and James Anderson, with Ginobili filling in when they go small with Parker-Neal-Manu, and the other scrubs like D. Butler or Danny Green to play in case of injury.

They are who the Spurs should play. I want the hunger of youth, the athleticism of youth, hell, the defense of youth compared to Caron and Howard. Leonard's rep is legit, and James Anderson showed in his brief time that he had the tools to be a very capable on ball defender for his position.

All Caron or Howard would be is the opposite of what the Spurs have needed to do for years now. The Spurs need to gamble on youth. Remember when they did that in 03? And Pop early in the year looking exasperated as they made mistakes, and commented to the media about them making 'young type mistakes'? It was worth it. Going young then was light years better than sticking with the likes of Steve Smith or Terry Porter or bringing in any other broken player of that era. Those were the days when Pop still took chances, and wasn't afraid of not "being fair to the team" or how the playoffs "weren't for (young player who showed up when the series was all but over)."

Caron and Howard now . . . would just soak up minutes, struggle with being ineffective at their new offensive roles, and due to their serious injuries, not be able to defend. They will both be 32 by the playoffs next year. Caron blew his patellar tendon. Howard has been even worse, missing 60% of the last two years after his ACL explosion. Think these old guys with bum knees will be the Centerpiece on defense?

At least with Caron, I can understand it a little. He was scoring for the Mavs last year. But . . . the Spurs problem hasn't been scoring. It's been their awful defense. Sure, the loss of George Hill might hurt the scoring, but giving Caron post-ups time and again isn't what will help the Spurs, and that's if he's the same after his kneecap did the Dougie. But Howard has performed at sub-Jeffersonian levels in Washington. What could he have to offer? If it's what he offered last year, no thanks on any level, especially not with the options the Spurs have already on the roster.

Back to Battier. He doesn't have these kinds of injury concerns and is used to being a role player and defender. Great. But he's headed the wrong way. He's not the great role player he used to be, he's a declining roleplayer. People will be fooled if he goes to Miami and they win the title and point their fingers, yelling "See! Battier was the difference!" But that team made it to the finals with busted role players like Miller and Haslem and still went 6 games despite massive choking. Battier can be a declining player on that team and help because they don't need him to be anything beyond a declining smart roleplayer. The Spurs are much farther away from a title and need a lot more.

[ace3g]

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Word is GSW (re)shopping Biedrins in hopes they find trade taker to free up more cash for pursuit of T-Chandler. In long-shot hopes, that

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Updating one more story from earlier: Bulls linked with lots of 2s/3s but I'm told they'd be quite eager to have a crack at Vince Carter

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
But as @KCJHoop reports, Bulls' wish list alsoincludes J-Rich, Caron Butler, RFA Nick Young, Josh Howard & Jamal Crawford. Interesting names

[jiggy_55]

Biedrins being shopped.. RJ probably being shopped.. And it seems some of you here think this is a good match, let's wait and see what happens.

I'm excited at the possibility of us making a deal, I'm looking forward to see what happens and hopefully this whole RJ deal is finally over and we can ship his ass out and get a new big and a new starting SF. That could give us another serious shot at a title if the team can gel, with RJ we simply have no shot.

[Fireball]

Hopefully the Bulls take Carter, because he is done. It would not make them a better team.

And I like the possibility of getting Biedrins for RJ ... does this trade work salary wise?

[Nathan89]

Hopefully the Bulls take Carter, because he is done. It would not make them a better team.

And I like the possibility of getting Biedrins for RJ ... does this trade work salary wise?

yes, but it doesn't save the warriors any money.

[Fireball]

yes, but it doesn't save the warriors any money.

Well, then the trade does not make sense, because they want to save money for a better bigman ... hmmm

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

I like how people here think that every team in this league sees RJ as a detriment. It just isn't true, sure his performance the last two years hasn't been great, but he's hardly even a scoring option on the Spurs, he doesn't have a pass first guard in TP like he did in Jason Kidd.

RJ can thrive in the right system, because he's still athletic, he has the 3pt shot.

[ElNono]

I'm not pleased with the clear implications that the Spurs are looking at these injured over-30 vets at SF.

Not because it seems to signal the end of RJ. Hell, I love that. The end of RJ in a Spurs uniform would be a day of celebration. RJ is part of the 'Axis of Guaranteed Playoff Failure' along with Matt Bonner and the refusal to put the best players on the court.

But that's not my issue.

I wrote this (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5201041&postcount=18) back in May. And even though it named Battier, it applies even more to Butler and Josh Howard. (Battier is supposed to be a lock for Miami, or at least the media hasn't reported him visiting with San Antonio).



The Spurs should have on their roster this year their answers to the SF problem: Leonard and James Anderson, with Ginobili filling in when they go small with Parker-Neal-Manu, and the other scrubs like D. Butler or Danny Green to play in case of injury.

They are who the Spurs should play. I want the hunger of youth, the athleticism of youth, hell, the defense of youth compared to Caron and Howard. Leonard's rep is legit, and James Anderson showed in his brief time that he had the tools to be a very capable on ball defender for his position.

All Caron or Howard would be is the opposite of what the Spurs have needed to do for years now. The Spurs need to gamble on youth. Remember when they did that in 03? And Pop early in the year looking exasperated as they made mistakes, and commented to the media about them making 'young type mistakes'? It was worth it. Going young then was light years better than sticking with the likes of Steve Smith or Terry Porter or bringing in any other broken player of that era. Those were the days when Pop still took chances, and wasn't afraid of not "being fair to the team" or how the playoffs "weren't for (young player who showed up when the series was all but over)."

Caron and Howard now . . . would just soak up minutes, struggle with being ineffective at their new offensive roles, and due to their serious injuries, not be able to defend. They will both be 32 by the playoffs next year. Caron blew his patellar tendon. Howard has been even worse, missing 60% of the last two years after his ACL explosion. Think these old guys with bum knees will be the Centerpiece on defense?

At least with Caron, I can understand it a little. He was scoring for the Mavs last year. But . . . the Spurs problem hasn't been scoring. It's been their awful defense. Sure, the loss of George Hill might hurt the scoring, but giving Caron post-ups time and again isn't what will help the Spurs, and that's if he's the same after his kneecap did the Dougie. But Howard has performed at sub-Jeffersonian levels in Washington. What could he have to offer? If it's what he offered last year, no thanks on any level, especially not with the options the Spurs have already on the roster.

Back to Battier. He doesn't have these kinds of injury concerns and is used to being a role player and defender. Great. But he's headed the wrong way. He's not the great role player he used to be, he's a declining roleplayer. People will be fooled if he goes to Miami and they win the title and point their fingers, yelling "See! Battier was the difference!" But that team made it to the finals with busted role players like Miller and Haslem and still went 6 games despite massive choking. Battier can be a declining player on that team and help because they don't need him to be anything beyond a declining smart roleplayer. The Spurs are much farther away from a title and need a lot more.

Agree. They should shop RJ to dump him/get a big man. But I agree the SF rotation should just be Anderson/Leonard. And if one gets hurt, trot out Danny Green, who I thought played pretty well last season. That should be the end of that position.

Find help for Tim inside, get a serviceable backup PG, and off we go.

[ElNono]

I like how people here think that every team in this league sees RJ as a detriment. It just isn't true, sure his performance the last two years hasn't been great, but he's hardly even a scoring option on the Spurs, he doesn't have a pass first guard in TP like he did in Jason Kidd.

RJ can thrive in the right system, because he's still athletic, he has the 3pt shot.

He's just not worth $9m/season. For $2m, he can stay and keep the bench warm...

[Obstructed_View]

Butler to Chicago means only one thing: BOGANS WILL BE FREE, BABY!

[pookenstein]

Butler to Chicago means only one thing: BOGANS WILL BE FREE, BABY!


THE CENTERPIECE!!!
:lobt2:

[TimmehC]

The only way the Biedrins thing makes any sense to me is if the Spurs are "facilitating" a Monta Ellis trade by getting involved. The Dubs don't desperately need a SF, and RJ actually has a higher salary(though for one less year I believe) than Biedrins. I could see Utah as the team taking on both RJ and Monta, but really couldn't begin to tell you what other pieces would be involved.

Edit: maybe this makes sense.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=89ucmm9

[Nathan89]

I like how people here think that every team in this league sees RJ as a detriment. It just isn't true, sure his performance the last two years hasn't been great, but he's hardly even a scoring option on the Spurs, he doesn't have a pass first guard in TP like he did in Jason Kidd.

RJ can thrive in the right system, because he's still athletic, he has the 3pt shot.

Even you take your stance on Rj the trading partners seem to be limited. Not much changes because the criteria eliminates virtually everyone.

[elec99]

Let's not forget the point of giving Dice a 3rd year, only 2mil guaranteed contract. They can trade the 5 mil contract to a team whose sole wish is to buy him out at 2 mil, THEN dice retires. So bundle this 5mil contract with RJ, now the pot might look a little sweeter.

If that fails then maybe it's time to restructure RJ's contract and give him a little bit more money, haha!

[yavozerb]

Well, I only consider Biedrins as a likely trade candidate. I don't see the other options evoked in this thread as realistic ones.

If the main reason for GS to trade Biedrins is to save $ then a trade for RJ makes little sense since RJ's contract is worth more..There are alot of other options but a straight swap of the two players makes no sense for GS.

[swaggerjackson]

If Dice were to retire. We could throw him in the RJ Biendris swap. Then they waive him and clear cap space. This is actually great for us because we clear space as well. Yet this is purely hypothetical. But if we know we are loosing Dice its not a bad deal. Works on Espn trade checker because Warriors are far enough under cap to absorb the extra money of Dice's contract.

[yavozerb]

If Dice were to retire. We could throw him in the RJ Biendris swap. Then they waive him and clear cap space. This is actually great for us because we clear space as well. Yet this is purely hypothetical. But if we know we are loosing Dice its not a bad deal. Works on Espn trade checker because Warriors are far enough under cap to absorb the extra money of Dice's contract.

If RJ and Biedrins contract are the same why would GSW want mcdyess's contract if there main goal is to save $?

[Mel_13]

If RJ and Biedrins contract are the same why would GSW want mcdyess's contract if there main goal is to save $?

Lots of people think that Dice's contract contains magical powers. Even if not needed to make the numbers work in a deal, including it will save money for both the Spurs and the other team. Magically...

[ElNono]

Lots of people think that Dice's contract contains magical powers. Even if not needed to make the numbers work in a deal, including it will save money for both the Spurs and the other team. Magically...

You mean it won't do my laundry???? :depressed

[baseline bum]

I like how people here think that every team in this league sees RJ as a detriment. It just isn't true, sure his performance the last two years hasn't been great, but he's hardly even a scoring option on the Spurs, he doesn't have a pass first guard in TP like he did in Jason Kidd.

RJ can thrive in the right system, because he's still athletic, he has the 3pt shot.

I'm pretty sure every team in this league sees RJ with 3 years and $30 million due as a detriment.

[DPG21920]

Credible source alert:


WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Spurs, Pistons keeping close check on Chris Kaman, but Clippers won't move him until resolution on restricted free agent DeAndre Jordan.

[DPG21920]

Also, Clippers the worst team to trade with. Nothing done even if they accept. They can back out like they did before when they agreed to trade the Spurs Camby.

[TimmehC]

Not sure why the Clips would do a deal unless it included much more than RJ.

[DPG21920]

All in all, this would be a great deal for the Spurs even if it meant they had to give up Blair. To get a competent big for RJ (even though I have soured a little on Kaman in recent years, he is still solid when healthy) is great, but to go from RJ to competent big with expiring contract :wow

[TimmehC]

By "much more", I mean at LEAST Tiago, but probably Parker. But who knows, Sterling is still in charge.

[Duncan2177]

Not sure why the Clips would do a deal unless it included much more than RJ.

Blair or Mcdyess?

[SenorSpur]

At this point, I'd take an RJ-for-Biedrins swap. A shot-blocking big for an underperforming SF? Yeah, that would work. Biedrins isn't a world-beater, but at least he would be a serviceable big - just don't put him on the FT line.

[YODA]

Just read that Butler suppose to visit San Antonio Tue after being in chicago and Clipper land today.

[chazley]

Just read that Butler suppose to visit San Antonio Tue after being in chicago and Clipper land today.

Supposedly, he loved his visit with the Clippers. I think the chances are slim at this point that we land Butler.

[Spurs Brazil]

JMcDonald_SAEN Jeff McDonald
@ Meeting's still on.Stay tuned. RT @saspurs101 any caron butler buzz? Anything on his meeting today?

[tdunk21]

thanx for the update brazil

[Pistons < Spurs]

Free agent small forward Caron Butler's meeting with the the Los Angeles Clippers went so well Monday night, the two sides decided to talk again on Tuesday morning, according to Butler's agent.

"Caron was really happy with the meeting," Butler's agent Raymond Brothers said. "We were really impressed by (general manager) Neil Olshey and (coach) Vinny Del Negro. I think they've got a good young team that can win. Caron had a really good feeling about it."


http://www.iamagm.com/news/2011/12/06/getting.close.clippers.meeting.caron.butler.went.s o.well.monday.they.will.meet.again?utm_source=dlvr .it&utm_medium=twitter

[Obstructed_View]

Butler's agent forgot that they told ESPN that Butler was going to stay in LA. Their crawler reported on his schedule that he was visiting LA Monday and Tuesday and SA on Tuesday as well. This isn't really a surprise. I wonder what they're trying to get out of lying about it.

[Pistons < Spurs]

The Mavericks have been offering their own free agents, such as Caron Butler and J.J. Barea, one-year deals to preserve maximum financial flexibility, knowing full well that both players are thus locks to leave because they'll get more lucrative offers elsewhere.http://www.iamagm.com/news/2011/12/06/sayonara.mavericks.only.offering.caron.butler.and. j.j.barea.one.year.contracts?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

@realtuffjuice Caron Butler
Just met with Spurs great visit first class all the way....

[lcroock]

Caron Butler's choices: SA or CHI for the $5 million midlevel exception, or NJ or LA Clippers for about $7 mill/year...

per Broussard on twitter

[Fireball]

Caron Butler's choices: SA or CHI for the $5 million midlevel exception, or NJ or LA Clippers for about $7 mill/year...

per Broussard on twitter

then he will likely go to the Clips ... they have much potential and are giving him more money ...

[benefactor]

Makes me feel good about RJ off the roster before opening day.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Caron Butler's choices: SA or CHI for the $5 million midlevel exception, or NJ or LA Clippers for about $7 mill/year...

per Broussard on twitter

$5M MLE is for teams under the tax, I believe. That has to mean it's a sign that the Spurs have told Caron a deal is in place to get them under the tax. *crosses fingers for RJ*

[benefactor]

then he will likely go to the Clips ... they have much potential and are giving him more money ...
If it's for money...he will go to the Clips. If he wants to win...Chicago is easily the best choice.

[SenorSpur]

Caron Butler's choices: SA or CHI for the $5 million midlevel exception, or NJ or LA Clippers for about $7 mill/year...

per Broussard on twitter

Then he's gone to the Clips for sure. Spurs can forget about him.

[SenorSpur]

Of course, the Spurs could provide him with, not only an opportunity to win, but also the opportunity to "stick it" to the Mavs 4 times per year.

Even with that, I just can't see how Butler could turn down the $7mil per year offer from the Clippers.

[MaNu4Tres]

Via J-Mac from Express News...


Not long before word of Jefferson’s impending release broke, free agent Caron Butler wrapped up a visit in San Antonio his agent, Raymond Brothers, said “went flawlessly.”

“He felt comfortable here,” Brothers said. “I’m waiting for (the Spurs) to call and discuss it. All I can tell you is, he really liked it.”

Though Butler has already visited the Los Angeles Clippers and still plans to visit the New Jersey Nets — two teams that can offer more than the $5 million mid-level exception that will be available to the Spurs after Jefferson is waived — one league source said the Spurs are now considered the front-runner to land him.

Butler has also met with representatives from Chicago, which can also offer only the $5 million mid-level exception.

The Spurs are also considering Washington small forward Josh Howard, who visited Tuesday, among other candidates to fill their small-forward void.

One factor that might entice Butler to San Antonio, his agent said, was the chance to play for coach Gregg Popovich. Asked if he believed the Spurs had a strong chance of signing Butler, Brothers said, “Absolutely.”

“He’s not wasting his time,” Brothers said “He’s wasn’t in San Antonio today to be nice.”

[DesignatedT]

Would love to see the way Pop acts behind the scenes to make all these players love him. You just don't see it with the media.

[crc21209]

Via J-Mac from Express News...


Not long before word of Jefferson’s impending release broke, free agent Caron Butler wrapped up a visit in San Antonio his agent, Raymond Brothers, said “went flawlessly.”

“He felt comfortable here,” Brothers said. “I’m waiting for (the Spurs) to call and discuss it. All I can tell you is, he really liked it.”

Though Butler has already visited the Los Angeles Clippers and still plans to visit the New Jersey Nets — two teams that can offer more than the $5 million mid-level exception that will be available to the Spurs after Jefferson is waived — one league source said the Spurs are now considered the front-runner to land him.

Butler has also met with representatives from Chicago, which can also offer only the $5 million mid-level exception.

The Spurs are also considering Washington small forward Josh Howard, who visited Tuesday, among other candidates to fill their small-forward void.

One factor that might entice Butler to San Antonio, his agent said, was the chance to play for coach Gregg Popovich. Asked if he believed the Spurs had a strong chance of signing Butler, Brothers said, “Absolutely.”

“He’s not wasting his time,” Brothers said “He’s wasn’t in San Antonio today to be nice.”

Sounds good....:tu

[SenorSpur]

Via J-Mac from Express News...


Not long before word of Jefferson’s impending release broke, free agent Caron Butler wrapped up a visit in San Antonio his agent, Raymond Brothers, said “went flawlessly.”

“He felt comfortable here,” Brothers said. “I’m waiting for (the Spurs) to call and discuss it. All I can tell you is, he really liked it.”

Though Butler has already visited the Los Angeles Clippers and still plans to visit the New Jersey Nets — two teams that can offer more than the $5 million mid-level exception that will be available to the Spurs after Jefferson is waived — one league source said the Spurs are now considered the front-runner to land him.

Butler has also met with representatives from Chicago, which can also offer only the $5 million mid-level exception.

The Spurs are also considering Washington small forward Josh Howard, who visited Tuesday, among other candidates to fill their small-forward void.

One factor that might entice Butler to San Antonio, his agent said, was the chance to play for coach Gregg Popovich. Asked if he believed the Spurs had a strong chance of signing Butler, Brothers said, “Absolutely.”

“He’s not wasting his time,” Brothers said “He’s wasn’t in San Antonio today to be nice.”

Wow! I thought the Clips would've been considered the frontrunners. I know Caron wants to win, but in all likelihood, this will his first and last chance at a big money contract. I expect him to got to the highest bidder, with a team that can be competitive.

[TimmehC]

Woj says the Bulls wouldn't commit the full MLE to Butler. So, if the Spurs can offer it, sounds like they have a good chance to land him.

[tdunk21]

@JMcDonald_SAEN
Jeff McDonald
Double breaking: Richard Jefferson to be amnestied, Spurs emerge as strong contender to land free agent Caron Butler. bit.ly/sC4ZIk

[silverblk mystix]

Caron Butler?

GTFO with this garbage...

[Lukor]

No offense Spursfans,but i wouldnt offer a 4 year contract to Butler after his knee basically exploded last season. For all we know he might be done soon.

[crc21209]

If the Spurs are taking a step forward to being a mentally tougher team, then I like it. :tu Butler and Leonard at small-forward? Awesome. Not let's get a big man....

[silverblk mystix]

I'm not pleased with the clear implications that the Spurs are looking at these injured over-30 vets at SF.

Not because it seems to signal the end of RJ. Hell, I love that. The end of RJ in a Spurs uniform would be a day of celebration. RJ is part of the 'Axis of Guaranteed Playoff Failure' along with Matt Bonner and the refusal to put the best players on the court.

But that's not my issue.

I wrote this (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5201041&postcount=18) back in May. And even though it named Battier, it applies even more to Butler and Josh Howard. (Battier is supposed to be a lock for Miami, or at least the media hasn't reported him visiting with San Antonio).



The Spurs should have on their roster this year their answers to the SF problem: Leonard and James Anderson, with Ginobili filling in when they go small with Parker-Neal-Manu, and the other scrubs like D. Butler or Danny Green to play in case of injury.

They are who the Spurs should play. I want the hunger of youth, the athleticism of youth, hell, the defense of youth compared to Caron and Howard. Leonard's rep is legit, and James Anderson showed in his brief time that he had the tools to be a very capable on ball defender for his position.

All Caron or Howard would be is the opposite of what the Spurs have needed to do for years now. The Spurs need to gamble on youth. Remember when they did that in 03? And Pop early in the year looking exasperated as they made mistakes, and commented to the media about them making 'young type mistakes'? It was worth it. Going young then was light years better than sticking with the likes of Steve Smith or Terry Porter or bringing in any other broken player of that era. Those were the days when Pop still took chances, and wasn't afraid of not "being fair to the team" or how the playoffs "weren't for (young player who showed up when the series was all but over)."

Caron and Howard now . . . would just soak up minutes, struggle with being ineffective at their new offensive roles, and due to their serious injuries, not be able to defend. They will both be 32 by the playoffs next year. Caron blew his patellar tendon. Howard has been even worse, missing 60% of the last two years after his ACL explosion. Think these old guys with bum knees will be the Centerpiece on defense?

At least with Caron, I can understand it a little. He was scoring for the Mavs last year. But . . . the Spurs problem hasn't been scoring. It's been their awful defense. Sure, the loss of George Hill might hurt the scoring, but giving Caron post-ups time and again isn't what will help the Spurs, and that's if he's the same after his kneecap did the Dougie. But Howard has performed at sub-Jeffersonian levels in Washington. What could he have to offer? If it's what he offered last year, no thanks on any level, especially not with the options the Spurs have already on the roster.

Back to Battier. He doesn't have these kinds of injury concerns and is used to being a role player and defender. Great. But he's headed the wrong way. He's not the great role player he used to be, he's a declining roleplayer. People will be fooled if he goes to Miami and they win the title and point their fingers, yelling "See! Battier was the difference!" But that team made it to the finals with busted role players like Miller and Haslem and still went 6 games despite massive choking. Battier can be a declining player on that team and help because they don't need him to be anything beyond a declining smart roleplayer. The Spurs are much farther away from a title and need a lot more.

This.

If only Pop could wake up and see this.

[Obstructed_View]

Butler spent two days in LA and eight minutes in SA. Don't really think there's much chance of this, guys.

[MaNu4Tres]

Butler spent two days in LA and eight minutes in SA. Don't really think there's much chance of this, guys.


Via J-Mac from Express News...


Not long before word of Jefferson’s impending release broke, free agent Caron Butler wrapped up a visit in San Antonio his agent, Raymond Brothers, said “went flawlessly.”

“He felt comfortable here,” Brothers said. “I’m waiting for (the Spurs) to call and discuss it. All I can tell you is, he really liked it.”

Though Butler has already visited the Los Angeles Clippers and still plans to visit the New Jersey Nets — two teams that can offer more than the $5 million mid-level exception that will be available to the Spurs after Jefferson is waived — one league source said the Spurs are now considered the front-runner to land him.

Butler has also met with representatives from Chicago, which can also offer only the $5 million mid-level exception.

The Spurs are also considering Washington small forward Josh Howard, who visited Tuesday, among other candidates to fill their small-forward void.

One factor that might entice Butler to San Antonio, his agent said, was the chance to play for coach Gregg Popovich. Asked if he believed the Spurs had a strong chance of signing Butler, Brothers said, “Absolutely.”

“He’s not wasting his time,” Brothers said “He’s wasn’t in San Antonio today to be nice.”

[Obstructed_View]

Good find. Thank you. That'll teach me to be such a pessimist.

[mexicanjunior]

Wow...would be great to replace Jefferson with Butler...

[Mugen]

Caron would be a great replacement but i still see him going to the Clippers. He must really love Pop to choose the Spurs over more money/bigger market/greater chance to contend going into the future. He must have not met Donald Sterling during his visit.

It's great to get rid of RJ but theres still a ginger problem that needs to be addressed before i'm doing cartwheels for this team again.

[tdunk21]

Caron would be a great replacement but i still see him going to the Clippers. He must really love Pop to choose the Spurs over more money/bigger market/greater chance to contend going into the future. He must have not met Donald Sterling during his visit.

It's great to get rid of RJ but theres still a ginger problem that needs to be addressed before i'm doing cartwheels for this team again.

and a legit big

[Buddy Holly]

Caron would be a great replacement but i still see him going to the Clippers. He must really love Pop to choose the Spurs over more money/bigger market/greater chance to contend going into the future. He must have not met Donald Sterling during his visit.

It's great to get rid of RJ but theres still a ginger problem that needs to be addressed before i'm doing cartwheels for this team again.

LOL, the Clippers are never contending. Sorry.

[lefty]

Butler will be an upgrade over RJ, but we still need a big

[Mugen]

LOL, the Clippers are never contending. Sorry.

they're gonna have a better chance than the spurs in a year or two, just sayin.....

Sterling could die of a heart attack tomorrow and they'd be in real good shape.

[DejuanorwhatDude]

UPDATE: According to David Aldridge of NBA.com via a source (https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/144877077961773056), Butler has decided to play for the Clippers to the tune of three years and $24 million.
As of now, you can pencil in Butler to be the team's starting small forward.

[DejuanorwhatDude]

Ouch.

[xtremesteven33]

He got his ring now he wants to get paid obviously.

[elemento]

It's all about the money in the end

Grant Hill will sign with us just because we're going to give him an extra year in his new contract.

[Russo21]

Yep we've missed out on Butler and Prince has decided to resign with Detroit for some unexplained reason. Battier signing with the freakin Heat.

We've missed out on 3 Small Forwards we would have liked already.

[Death In June]

Eh, who can honestly say they didn't see this coming. The Spurs FO have notoriously been used as leverage in FA. I don't expect them to get anyone above TJ Ford quality anyway.