Parker for CP3 - your thoughts?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

People are going to think I'm insane, but here's my rationale:

*the Spurs are going to have to rebuild soon, and Timmy is likely to retire after this season, so we are likely to start rebuilding in 2012-13 (unless he finds a new lease on life and decides to play another two years on a DRob-type contract).

*TP is not the cornerstone for a re-building project - he's done great things for this team, but he'd be unhappy here while rebuilding, and he's also a 29yo PG who relies on his speed to be effective (how much longer do you think his quickness will last?).

* if we are to make one more run at the title, it's pretty clear that the current formula is not going to get us there, but CP3 gives the team a completely different look with his range and half court savvy. He also gives us an excellent small perimeter defender.

*CP3 would probably be a one-year hire, although he might bond with the organisation and decide to stay (unlikely). If he doesn't we clear his 17mil and Timmy's 21mil off the cap, and Manu is a very enticing trade piece in the final year of his contract, so we'd immediately be way under the and in full rebuilding mode, which is a better way of going about it than half measures.

Parker+Bonner for CP3 - I'd do it for one more shot at a title before the rebuild. Would you?

[FvckMavs]

Gotta save Bonner for Howard.

[Trainwreck2100]

only if we somehow sucker the hornets into taking RJ

[ElNono]

tbh, if we were to shop Tony, I much rather do TP+Bonner+Dice for Nash+Gortat.

Works salary-wise, we're renting Nash just for one season, which would work to clear space for the rebuild afterwards. Gortat is a strong guy down the middle to help Tim, plus we get to eject Bonner.

Suns get a solid PG on a reasonable deal, and some immediate savings on the Dice contract.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

only if we somehow sucker the hornets into taking RJ

I'm assuming RJ is going to Denver for Nene! :lmao

Need to give Hornets something. TP makes sense.


tbh, if we were to shop Tony, I much rather do TP+Bonner+Dice for Nash+Gortat.

Works salary-wise, we're renting Nash just for one season, which would work to clear space for the rebuild afterwards. Gortat is a strong guy down the middle to help Tim, plus we get to eject Bonner.

Suns get a solid PG on a reasonable deal, and some immediate savings on the Dice contract.

That's the other deal I'd like to see for TP. Love to get our hands on Gortat, although the downside is Nash's horrible defence.

[FkLA]

The question isnt whether you, any of us, or the Spurs org would make that deal its whether the Hornets would. Pretty sure theyre expecting more than just a Top 10 PG and ginger for one of the best players in the league.

[pawe]

I like the Nash and Gortat trade. The Spurs ae a jump shooting team now and nash can set them up with screen and pop plays and he can also drive and dish like TP. Manu then will probably have to go back to supplementing the secondaries with Blair and Gortat.

[dbestpro]

Paul would not sign a contract extension with SA. The new CBA did nothing to keep star players from moving to big market teams. He will be a Knick at some point.

[Mel_13]

People are going to think I'm insane, but here's my rationale:

*the Spurs are going to have to rebuild soon, and Timmy is likely to retire after this season, so we are likely to start rebuilding in 2012-13 (unless he finds a new lease on life and decides to play another two years on a DRob-type contract).

*TP is not the cornerstone for a re-building project - he's done great things for this team, but he'd be unhappy here while rebuilding, and he's also a 29yo PG who relies on his speed to be effective (how much longer do you think his quickness will last?).

* if we are to make one more run at the title, it's pretty clear that the current formula is not going to get us there, but CP3 gives the team a completely different look with his range and half court savvy. He also gives us an excellent small perimeter defender.

*CP3 would probably be a one-year hire, although he might bond with the organisation and decide to stay (unlikely). If he doesn't we clear his 17mil and Timmy's 21mil off the cap, and Manu is a very enticing trade piece in the final year of his contract, so we'd immediately be way under the and in full rebuilding mode, which is a better way of going about it than half measures.

Parker+Bonner for CP3 - I'd do it for one more shot at a title before the rebuild. Would you?

I like your reasoning, but there are reports that the Hornets weren't interested in Rondo. I doubt that they would be interested in Tony. Looks like they want some combination of good players on rookie contracts, draft picks, and cap space.

[Bruno]

Manu will never see the all again with CP3. Parker hater/Manu lover should be careful with what they wish for. :lol

There will be a time where trading Parker will be the right move to do for both Spurs and Parker. However, this time will be in a couple of years. Right now, keeping Parker is a no-brainer for Spurs.

Actually there is a realistic trade to do for with the Hornets but it's Ariza+Okafor for RJ+Dice+Blair.

[DPG21920]

Would kill for that.

[dbestpro]

Would kill for that.

Ditto.

[Obstructed_View]

Trading a point guard who just proved that he wants to stay here for one who absolutely doesn't isn't really a good idea. It's not like Paul is more durable or a better teammate than Parker either. Not sure what the Spurs have to try to entice Paul to re-sign with them at this point. Good luck enticing him with the potential of Leonard and Splitter.

[smrattler]

My first thought: Not going to happen, ever.

Which leads to my second thought: Don't waste time thinking about it.

CP3's agent wants to make a LeBron-esque type of big deal and move Paul to NY with Melo and Stat. It might not happen, but if CP is saying "NYC", he might settle for L.A., Boston, or Chicago... he won't settle for "SA".

[Obstructed_View]

My first thought: Not going to happen, ever.

Which leads to my second thought: Don't waste time thinking about it.

CP3's agent wants to make a LeBron-esque type of big deal and move Paul to NY with Melo and Stat. It might not happen, but if CP is saying "NYC", he might settle for L.A., Boston, or Chicago... he won't settle for "SA".

Yeah, from that standpoint, he's already in SA.

[mathbzh]

so we'd immediately be way under the and in full rebuilding mode, which is a better way of going about it than half measures.

I am not sure about that. I think keeping at least one near All-Star player is necessary to attract free agents, to lead the youngsters... to incarnate a continuity.

I believe Parker is a good rebuilding piece (not conerstone).

- He probably still have at least 2/3 years of near all star level in him... and then will become at least a nice expiring contract. Actually it does not really matter how good he is... rebuilding is a long process.
- In rebuilding mode, his contract is not a problem. I don't expect the Spurs to gather the new 3 Amigos. So, if we rebuild through draft picks, we will have to give some real money to someone. Why not Parker?
- He is probably not good enough to lead us to the playoffs alone... we can keep him and hope being lucky with the lottery

I don't think Paul would make us contenders. So I don't see the point having him for one year.

[xtremesteven33]

Actually there is a realistic trade to do for with the Hornets but it's Ariza+Okafor for RJ+Dice+Blair.


:tu :tu

[JR3]

Paul and Gray for Jefferson and Parker. Thoughts?

[lefty]

The NBA Hornets are gonna send CP3 to the Lakers

[TD 21]

Like Mel said, if the Hornets supposedly aren't interested in Rondo, then there's no reason to think they would be in Parker. But even if they were and value wise, the Spurs could give them the requisite assets in return (and they might be able to if they were interested in Parker), Paul wouldn't sign an extension. If he wouldn't sign an extension with the Celtics, then there's no reason to think he would with the Spurs.

[baseline bum]

EDIT... nevermind.

[Seventyniner]

Manu will never see the all again with CP3. Parker hater/Manu lover should be careful with what they wish for. :lol

There will be a time where trading Parker will be the right move to do for both Spurs and Parker. However, this time will be in a couple of years. Right now, keeping Parker is a no-brainer for Spurs.

Actually there is a realistic trade to do for with the Hornets but it's Ariza+Okafor for RJ+Dice+Blair.

That would be luxury tax hell for two more years, unless Duncan takes a huge pay cut or retires after this season. Pop would love the move, but Holt probably wouldn't.

However, it does make sense for both sides, assuming that the Hornets are trying to get young players, picks, and cap space to start the rebuild soon.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Paul would not sign a contract extension with SA. The new CBA did nothing to keep star players from moving to big market teams. He will be a Knick at some point.

Please re-read OP. I figure CP3 would be a one year rental, then we're into full rebuild mode.


I like your reasoning, but there are reports that the Hornets weren't interested in Rondo. I doubt that they would be interested in Tony. Looks like they want some combination of good players on rookie contracts, draft picks, and cap space.

Fair enough. Didn't know they'd turned down Rondo.


Manu will never see the all again with CP3. Parker hater/Manu lover should be careful with what they wish for. :lol

There will be a time where trading Parker will be the right move to do for both Spurs and Parker. However, this time will be in a couple of years. Right now, keeping Parker is a no-brainer for Spurs.

Actually there is a realistic trade to do for with the Hornets but it's Ariza+Okafor for RJ+Dice+Blair.

I'm not a TP hater... just thought this trade might give us a shot this year while also clearing more salary for the rebuild. ;)

As for the other trade, I'd pull the trigger on that, then we can amnesty Bonner instead of RJ! :D


Trading a point guard who just proved that he wants to stay here for one who absolutely doesn't isn't really a good idea. It's not like Paul is more durable or a better teammate than Parker either. Not sure what the Spurs have to try to entice Paul to re-sign with them at this point. Good luck enticing him with the potential of Leonard and Splitter.

TP said the Spurs are unlikely to win a trophy any more, but he did sign a lengthy contract. Strange mixed messages.

As I said in the OP, Paul would likely be a one-year hire then rebuilding time. I don't think TP will be happy in rebuild mode. He wants to win (to his credit).


EDIT... nevermind.

Awwww, go on! :)


That would be luxury tax hell for two more years, unless Duncan takes a huge pay cut or retires after this season. Pop would love the move, but Holt probably wouldn't.

However, it does make sense for both sides, assuming that the Hornets are trying to get young players, picks, and cap space to start the rebuild soon.

Given the state of Tim's body, his attitude to life, and the 1200 games he's played, I'll be surprised if he wants to play on after this season.

[Obstructed_View]

TP said the Spurs are unlikely to win a trophy any more, but he did sign a lengthy contract. Strange mixed messages.

I believe there was a caveat to that first statement, regarding an if-we-don't type scenario.

[crc21209]

Nice try, but theres just no way it would ever happen.....

[baseline bum]

Awwww, go on! :)

I originally thought it would be a pretty good deal since I didn't expect Paul to opt out of his final year due to the reduced maximum salaries (30% of cap), but then I checked the numbers of his deal and realized his final season only pays as much as he could get anyway by opting out. Going from a likely 2-year rental to a certain 1-year rental killed the idea for me.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I originally thought it would be a pretty good deal since I didn't expect Paul to opt out of his final year due to the reduced maximum salaries (30% of cap), but then I checked the numbers of his deal and realized his final season only pays as much as he could get anyway by opting out. Going from a likely 2-year rental to a certain 1-year rental killed the idea for me.

Fair enough. I just figure that Tim will be gone after this season, and rather than lagging around the middle of the pack and going nowhere, I'd rather have a shot at the title this year and then go into full blow up rebuild mode. This trade would allow us to cut about 40 million in salary, and given the way CP3 carried the Hornets against the Lakers in last season's play-offs, I think he'd give us a shot to win it all this year (assuming we get a decent season from Timmy... a large assumption, I know).

[Bruno]

I'm not a TP hater... just thought this trade might give us a shot this year while also clearing more salary for the rebuild. ;)


I know you aren't a Parker hater.

I find this trade does poorly in both being competitive now and rebuilding the team. First, even if you upgrade the team at PG from Parker to Paul, the frontcourt will remain too bad to win a title. Second, a true rebuilding trade including Parker would be Parker for expiring and prospects/picks. Your trade has the expiring part correct but miss the prospects/picks part.

Hornets are in rebuilding mode if they trade Paul. I don't think they are interested in an aging Parker. Some teams will offer more for Paul because they will see him as a cornerstone of their franchise for at least half a decade and not an one year rental.

[SequSpur]

Ruff, CP3 wants to go to New York, so why bother with this topic?Dude, it's all over ESPN and Solid D's Express News..... Dumb.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I know you aren't a Parker hater.

I find this trade does poorly in both being competitive now and rebuilding the team. First, even if you upgrade the team at PG from Parker to Paul, the frontcourt will remain too bad to win a title. Second, a true rebuilding trade including Parker would be Parker for expiring and prospects/picks. Your trade has the expiring part correct but miss the prospects/picks part.

Hornets are in rebuilding mode if they trade Paul. I don't think they are interested in an aging Parker. Some teams will offer more for Paul because they will see him as a cornerstone of their franchise for at least half a decade and not an one year rental.

Fair enough. Can't argue with any of that. My brain is only just warming up to NBA again after a 6 month hiatus, so give me a bit of time to get back to speed! :lol


Ruff, CP3 wants to go to New York, so why bother with this topic?Dude, it's all over ESPN and Solid D's Express News..... Dumb.

It was just an idea thread. Your relentless negativity makes me wonder why you bother to post at all.

[SequSpur]

It's a fact.

espn.com

[SequSpur]

You want my thought...you asked for it, so I gave it to you...

CP3 wants New York, he isn't going to be traded anywhere else because he will refuse to sign, so that's my thought...shit...how is that negative? It's the truth, a fact!

[DeadlyDynasty]

You want my thought...you asked for it, so I gave it to you...

CP3 wants New York, he isn't going to be traded anywhere else because he will refuse to sign, so that's my thought...shit...how is that negative? It's the truth, a fact!


Paul will be a Knick for sure...only other teams that have a chance are Lakers and Clips

[TDMVPDPOY]

cp3 or deron williams are both fools if the clippers are not on their list, even though they got a wanker of a owner...blake griffin will be better then d12 when its all said and done

[ManuTastic]

Manu will never see the all again with CP3. Parker hater/Manu lover should be careful with what they wish for. :lol

There will be a time where trading Parker will be the right move to do for both Spurs and Parker. However, this time will be in a couple of years. Right now, keeping Parker is a no-brainer for Spurs.

Actually there is a realistic trade to do for with the Hornets but it's Ariza+Okafor for RJ+Dice+Blair.

OMG stop teasing me. How is this realistic? I'd love to see that.

[DMC]

I don't think so.

The Spurs FO has to think of their fanbase, and their fanbase isn't the same mentality as the Lakers' fanbase. Sure we want wins, but I personally don't want to wholesale the team for that one long shot at something probably unreachable right now. I would rather watch my team do what they can to get there than bring in people I don't give a shit about and watch them fail.

I still feel that RJ and Bonner should be goners, and maybe even Blair, but the core 3 should remain intact.

Detroit went a similar route by trading Billups for Iverson. See what that got them. CP3 isn't where Iverson was, but players can change based on their circumstances. It takes most people at least 1 year to figure out the Spurs system. Having Paul for a year would do nothing for the Spurs.

We don't need a better PG as much as we need help in other areas.

Lastly, I would never build a team around a PG not named Isiah or Magic.

[Seventyniner]

OMG stop teasing me. How is this realistic? I'd love to see that.

It would be a pure salary dump on NO's part. Okafor and Ariza combined are due $19.2M this year, $20.7M next year, and $22.2M in 2013-2014. The last year for each is a player option or ETO, but I can't imagine either of them not taking the money.

On the other end, RJ, Dice, and Blair combined are due $12.9M this year (assuming they waive Dice), and Blair has a cheap team option for next year.

If the Hornets really wanted to blow things up and start over, they could let West walk (or do a sign-and-trade for young pieces), trade Paul for young players and picks, do this trade with the Spurs, and maybe even amnesty RJ next year. This would almost completely clear the books and allow a true rebuild.

Now that I think more about it, this trade would be complete capitulation on NO's part. If West walks away in free agency and Paul makes it clear that he's not re-signing in New Orleans, this becomes more realistic. If NO re-signs West and can talk Paul into at least considering an extension, they would have to hang on to Okafor; he's their only real center.

[rascal]

My first thought: Not going to happen, ever.

Which leads to my second thought: Don't waste time thinking about it.

CP3's agent wants to make a LeBron-esque type of big deal and move Paul to NY with Melo and Stat. It might not happen, but if CP is saying "NYC", he might settle for L.A., Boston, or Chicago... he won't settle for "SA".

This. He has made it clear he wants to play with Amare and Carmelo.

[rascal]

I don't think so.

The Spurs FO has to think of their fanbase, and their fanbase isn't the same mentality as the Lakers' fanbase. Sure we want wins, but I personally don't want to wholesale the team for that one long shot at something probably unreachable right now. I would rather watch my team do what they can to get there than bring in people I don't give a shit about and watch them fail.

I still feel that RJ and Bonner should be goners, and maybe even Blair, but the core 3 should remain intact.

Detroit went a similar route by trading Billups for Iverson. See what that got them. CP3 isn't where Iverson was, but players can change based on their circumstances. It takes most people at least 1 year to figure out the Spurs system. Having Paul for a year would do nothing for the Spurs.

We don't need a better PG as much as we need help in other areas.

Lastly, I would never build a team around a PG not named Isiah or Magic.


The core 3 should be broken up. The spurs are not winning anything with those 3 as the top 3 players on the team.

[DAF86]

Manu will never see the all again with CP3. Parker hater/Manu lover should be careful with what they wish for. :lol

There will be a time where trading Parker will be the right move to do for both Spurs and Parker. However, this time will be in a couple of years. Right now, keeping Parker is a no-brainer for Spurs.

Actually there is a realistic trade to do for with the Hornets but it's Ariza+Okafor for RJ+Dice+Blair.

GTFO, Spurs would be dumb not to make this trade if given the chance, it works everyway. The thing is NO will never go for that.

[Killakobe81]

Manu will never see the all again with CP3. Parker hater/Manu lover should be careful with what they wish for. :lol

There will be a time where trading Parker will be the right move to do for both Spurs and Parker. However, this time will be in a couple of years. Right now, keeping Parker is a no-brainer for Spurs.

Actually there is a realistic trade to do for with the Hornets but it's Ariza+Okafor for RJ+Dice+Blair.

:rollin How is that realistic? For the Hornets to give up 2 flawed scorers though effective defenders ...for that poo-poo platter? :nope

[Seventyniner]

:rollin How is that realistic? For the Hornets to give up 2 flawed scorers though effective defenders ...for that poo-poo platter? :nope

You would prefer the Spurs include a Euro pick like Marc Gasol? This trade would be nothing compared to the Pau Gasol heist anyway.

[Killakobe81]

You would prefer the Spurs include a Euro pick like Marc Gasol? This trade would be nothing compared to the Pau Gasol heist anyway.

But where is the huge expiring? Sure we did not offer that much in proven talent either but there was Kwame's deal, Critt who was a highly regarded prospect, Gasol with potential and multiple first rounders.

No Okafor and Ariza are not Pau, but you offering a undersized PF, and overpaid SF pst his prime ...

[Seventyniner]

But where is the huge expiring? Sure we did not offer that much in proven talent either but there was Kwame's deal, Critt who was a highly regarded prospect, Gasol with potential and multiple first rounders.

No Okafor and Ariza are not Pau, but you offering a undersized PF, and overpaid SF pst his prime ...

The idea is that the Hornets could amnesty RJ after this season (the "expiring"), waive Dice (whoever ends up with him will anyway), and keep Blair because he's cheap for next year. With West probably walking away and Paul not re-signing, they get to completely clear the books after this season except for Jarrett Jack's $5M and some rookie contracts.

Basically, it would be a complete salary dump and only done if West walks and the Hornets are convinced that Paul isn't coming back no matter what.

It might also make the team more attractive to a buyer to not have Ariza's and Okafor's bad deals on the books. Another parallel with the Gasol trade.

Also, I've seen somewhere else on ST that only a team who signed a player can amnesty that player (preventing the Hornets from trading for and amnestying RJ). If that's true, though, how did Holt talk the owners into it? I thought the idea wasn't to punish teams with no bad deals; instead they could trade for a bad contract and use the amnesty then. In other words, isn't it that the amnesty can only be used for players under the contract as of the lockout (regardless of what team they end up on)?

[Mel_13]

Also, I've seen somewhere else on ST that only a team who signed a player can amnesty that player (preventing the Hornets from trading for and amnestying RJ). If that's true, though, how did Holt talk the owners into it? I thought the idea wasn't to punish teams with no bad deals; instead they could trade for a bad contract and use the amnesty then. In other words, isn't it that the amnesty can only be used for players under the contract as of the lockout (regardless of what team they end up on)?

Nobody knows the answer to that question. It's not addressed in the draft agreement and will be part of the negotiations that are ongoing to complete the final version of the CBA.

[Seventyniner]

Nobody knows the answer to that question. It's not addressed in the draft agreement and will be part of the negotiations that are ongoing to complete the final version of the CBA.

Thanks for the info. I think the RJ/Blair/Dice for Ariza/Okafor trade is realistic. Not in the sense that it is likely, but that there are circumstances (NO blowing up their team and starting over) under which it would make sense for both sides.

[Mel_13]

Thanks for the info. I think the RJ/Blair/Dice for Ariza/Okafor trade is realistic. Not in the sense that it is likely, but that there are circumstances (NO blowing up their team and starting over) under which it would make sense for both sides.

I don't think there's much chance either, but that trade does remove about $25M in future obligations for the Hornets.

[Bruno]

If Hornets do the trade I've suggested, the next step for them would be to showcase RJ.

With CP3 traded for expirings/prospects/picks, RJ would be Hornets main offensive weapon and it's realistic to think that he can be again the great scorer he was 2,3 years ago. RJ's trade value woudl rise which will make him easier to dump for the Hornets.

[Seventyniner]

I don't think there's much chance either, but that trade does remove about $25M in future obligations for the Hornets.

Checking Shamsports, if the Hornets can trade for RJ and amnesty him after this year, they would save just over $28M in future commitments, and around $21M in extra cap space in both 2012-2013 and 2013-2014.

If they amnesty him immediately, they become major players in this year's FA market, with only $36.4M in salary (not including David West) committed. That's almost enough room for two max contracts, I believe. Not that there are any players worth the max this year, considering the bonanza of 2012.

I'm not sure the Grizzlies dumped any more salary than that in the Gasol trade.

[cheguevara]

Parker+Bonner for CP3 - I'd do it for one more shot at a title before the rebuild. Would you?

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


what the Hornets would say to this proposed trade

[DAF86]

If Hornets do the trade I've suggested, the next step for them would be to showcase RJ.

With CP3 traded for expirings/prospects/picks, RJ would be Hornets main offensive weapon and it's realistic to think that he can be again the great scorer he was 2,3 years ago. RJ's trade value woudl rise which will make him easier to dump for the Hornets.

RJ has been exposed.

[cheguevara]

seriously some ppl here actually think an NBA team will voluntarily agree to receiving RJ or Bonner in a trade?? :lol

[Brazil]

The core 3 should be broken up. The spurs are not winning anything with those 3 as the top 3 players on the team.

The Core 3 will be broken up soon anyway with Duncan retiring... The fact to break up the core 3 this year won't change the fact spurs are no contenders. We won't have enough from a TP trade to have a shot at something in the next two years.

So I kinda agree with DMC, live and die by the big 3. Spurs will be in total rebuilt mode soon enough.

[DMC]

The core 3 should be broken up. The spurs are not winning anything with those 3 as the top 3 players on the team.

They will win regular season games and might even make a decent run into the playoffs, but they won't win a ring most likely.

No "star" is going to volunteer to come to SA. There's no glory in it, none, and it would cost them in advertising revenue.

[Agloco]

People are going to think I'm insane, but here's my rationale:

*the Spurs are going to have to rebuild soon, and Timmy is likely to retire after this season, so we are likely to start rebuilding in 2012-13 (unless he finds a new lease on life and decides to play another two years on a DRob-type contract).

*TP is not the cornerstone for a re-building project - he's done great things for this team, but he'd be unhappy here while rebuilding, and he's also a 29yo PG who relies on his speed to be effective (how much longer do you think his quickness will last?).

* if we are to make one more run at the title, it's pretty clear that the current formula is not going to get us there, but CP3 gives the team a completely different look with his range and half court savvy. He also gives us an excellent small perimeter defender.

*CP3 would probably be a one-year hire, although he might bond with the organisation and decide to stay (unlikely). If he doesn't we clear his 17mil and Timmy's 21mil off the cap, and Manu is a very enticing trade piece in the final year of his contract, so we'd immediately be way under the and in full rebuilding mode, which is a better way of going about it than half measures.

Parker+Bonner for CP3 - I'd do it for one more shot at a title before the rebuild. Would you?

I see it Ruff. I'm just wondering about Paul's knee is all.