India says fluoride damages your brain

[mavs>spurs]

Before anyone balks at the url, they are only hosting the actual PDF of an Indian study at the University College of Sciences at Osmania University in Hyderabad, India

http://static.infowars.com/2011/12/i/general/2011_study-neurodegenerative_changes_from_fluoride_of_brain_s pinal_cord_and_sciatic_nerve.pdf

[4>0rings]

Of course it does, but in what amount? You can take enough aspirin that it will kill you.

[mavs>spurs]

1-12 ppm, someone get agloco in here to tell us what that means in relation to how much is in our water.

[ChumpDumper]

When you dose rats with 20 times the amount of fluoride found in typical American tap water, they get brain damage.

Call the Nobel committee!

[mavs>spurs]

You have a science background brah? I'd like confirmation that 1-12 ppm is "20 times the dose found in American tap water"

[ChumpDumper]

You have a science background brah? I'd like confirmation that 1-12 ppm is "20 times the dose found in American tap water"You didn't even read your own link.

Brah.

Twelve male Wistar rats were divided equally into two groups: one group received 20 ppm of sodium fluoride (NaF) and the other group (which served as a control) received tap water for 60days.

Why do you lie?

Brah.

[mavs>spurs]

I guess I was reading the part that concluded:

"High levels of fluoride in drinking water (1-12ppm)
affect central nervous system directly without first
causing the physical deformities of skeletal fluorosis6,7.
According to Mullenix et al8 hyperactivity and
cognitive deficits can be correlated with hippocampus
damage induced by sodium fluoride (NaF).
Distinctive alterations in the brain have also been
observed with the chronic administration of aluminium
Fluoride (AlF3) and NaF9. Histological
changes in the brain of young, fluoride-intoxicated
rats have been reported by Shivarajashankara10"

[ChumpDumper]

I fully agree no water supply should have 20ppm of fluoride.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Who still drinks straight tap water anyway? I have two brita filters because as long as I can remember we've all known the shit in tap water.

[Blake]

lol infowars

[mavs>spurs]

Who still drinks straight tap water anyway? I have two brita filters because as long as I can remember we've all known the shit in tap water.

the only thing that can remove fluoride from the water is reverse osmosis which also removes everything out of it, even the minerals. if you've been drinking filtered tap water, you still got the fluoride.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Well in that case I've drank idk how much tap water and my brain works just fine tbh

[m>s]

tap water is for bath and washing, never knew it as a potable thing tbh

[mavs>spurs]

And how do you know that it didn't contribute to your ADD, or that you might otherwise have been a few IQ points smarter?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao because I've had ADD since birth. ADD isn't something you get over time.

Do you have anything connection flouride to ADD or is that more bullshit Alex Jones sells on his listeners while he gets rich?

[mavs>spurs]

Where does it say Alex Jones wrote that article? It was a scientific study done by a university. Various studies have found a link, and the fact that ADD rates are so high in one of the only countries on earth who fluoridates their water is cause for concern.

Dude, last I checked ADD isn't diagnosed in infancy, only in early childhood. By then you had been drinking fluoride for a few years.

[m>s]

:lmao because I've had ADD since birth. ADD isn't something you get over time.

Do you have anything connection flouride to ADD or is that more bullshit Alex Jones sells on his listeners while he gets rich?
probably gained during pregnancy and later lactation imho

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Where does it say Alex Jones wrote that article? It was a scientific study done by a university. Various studies have found a link, and the fact that ADD rates are so high in one of the only countries on earth who fluoridates their water is cause for concern.

Dude, last I checked ADD isn't diagnosed in infancy, only in early childhood. By then you had been drinking fluoride for a few years.
I've had ADD my entire life. It's not like AIDS, you don't pick it up. It's not like Parkinsons' disease, it's not a neurological disorder. It's a cognitive disorder.

lol all the sudden pretending you're an expert on ADD

[mavs>spurs]

Dude, you claim to the the expert but you're looking like the dumbass. ADD cannot possibly be diagnosed until several years of age.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Not having ADD =/= not being diagnosed. No shit a new born baby can't be diagnosed for ADD, that doesn't mean he doesn't have ADD.

[RandomGuy]

I guess I was reading the part that concluded:

"High levels of fluoride in drinking water (1-12ppm)
affect central nervous system directly without first
causing the physical deformities of skeletal fluorosis 6,7.
According to Mullenix et al8 hyperactivity and
cognitive deficits can be correlated with hippocampus
damage induced by sodium fluoride (NaF).
Distinctive alterations in the brain have also been
observed with the chronic administration of aluminium
Fluoride (AlF3) and NaF9. Histological
changes in the brain of young, fluoride-intoxicated
rats have been reported by Shivarajashankara10"

Sigh. Dingleberry, this is from a Chinese medical journal of rather questionable methodoloy from the 1980's.




6. Shan Guan CM. The non skeletal lesions of endemic fluorosis.
Chin J Intern Med 1982; 21:217-219.
7. Ding LI. The nervous system complications of chronic
fluorosis. Chin Endem 1983; 2: 97-98.


Just because they can attribute it correctly, doesn't make the ultimate source material any better.

Yeah, I knew to look there before, because I have actually read the Chinese studies. Fucking took me long enough to find, but the studies have never been independently verified, to my knowledge. Not really the hallmark of good science.

[RandomGuy]

Where does it say Alex Jones wrote that article? It was a scientific study done by a university. Various studies have found a link, and the fact that ADD rates are so high in one of the only countries on earth who fluoridates their water is cause for concern.

Dude, last I checked ADD isn't diagnosed in infancy, only in early childhood. By then you had been drinking fluoride for a few years.

Correlation, meet cause, cause meet correlation. You may now go home.



I mean shit, ADD rates are highest in the country with the most english speakers. That must mean ADD is also caused by speaking english, right?

It couldn't possibly be because the diagnosis of ADD is a priority of that particular country's doctors, and diagnosis in other countries is not as great because of lack of training or emphasis. Skewing of data rates never happens in real life.

Nah.

Must be the flouride.

[RandomGuy]

_c6HsiixFS8

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

^:lmao

[Wild Cobra]

_c6HsiixFS8
Doesn't that comedy video get tiresome?

[RandomGuy]

Your doctor or dentist may know whether local water supplies contain optimal levels of fluoride, between 0.7 and 1.2 ppm (parts fluoride per million parts of water). If your water comes from a public system, you could also call your local water authority or public health department, or check online at the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) database of local water safety reports
http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/teeth/fluoride_water.html#

Floride doses in the US occur at 1 ppm typically. Some places with a lot of minerals in the water have to actually remove it.

12ppm is beyond what you would encounter in a glass of water by an order of magnitude.

[mavs>spurs]

What about toothpaste with 1000ppm or more? still think it's good?

[m>s]

fluoride was the earliest chemical weapon used in human's war history imho, first used during the world war 1 imho

[m>s]

What about toothpaste with 1000ppm or more? still think it's good?
its CaF in most toothpastes imho, not fluoride

[mavs>spurs]

its CaF in most toothpastes imho, not fluoride

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation

These compounds were chosen for their solubility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility), safety, availability, and low cost.[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation#cite_note-Reeves-30) A 1992 census found that, for U.S. public water supply systems reporting the type of compound used, 63% of the population received water fluoridated with fluorosilicic acid, 28% with sodium fluorosilicate, and 9% with sodium fluoride

I don't think it matters which compound it is.

[Blake]

What about toothpaste with 1000ppm or more? still think it's good?

you use toothpaste with less than 1000ppm?

do you eat it too?

[mavs>spurs]

I use fluoride free toothpaste.

[Wild Cobra]

http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/teeth/fluoride_water.html#

Floride doses in the US occur at 1 ppm typically. Some places with a lot of minerals in the water have to actually remove it.

12ppm is beyond what you would encounter in a glass of water by an order of magnitude.
Unless there is a glitch in the dispersant equipment.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against fluoride. We should just not forget that accidents happen.

[RandomGuy]

What about toothpaste with 1000ppm or more? still think it's good?

Sounds good to me.

I don't eat it by the pound.


Let's try some math, Mr. 3.8


1000 millileters of water contains how much floride at 1ppm?

1 millileter of toothpaste contains how much floride at 1000ppm?



While you are calculating that, maybe someone else will tell the class approximately how much toothpaste out of the 1 millileter that ones places on the toothbrush actually is consumed in the act of brushing ones teeth? A rough estimate will do.



No, I am not concerned.

[Wild Cobra]

What about toothpaste with 1000ppm or more? still think it's good?
You're not suppose to swallow it.

[mavs>spurs]

Sounds good to me.

I don't eat it by the pound.


Let's try some math, Mr. 3.8


1000 millileters of water contains how much floride at 1ppm?

1 millileter of toothpaste contains how much floride at 1000ppm?



While you are calculating that, maybe someone else will tell the class approximately how much toothpaste out of the 1 millileter that ones places on the toothbrush actually is consumed in the act of brushing ones teeth? A rough estimate will do.



No, I am not concerned.

You don't think it's possible to accidentally consume a mere 20 ppm on average? By all means, brush your teeth with whatever you like.

[RandomGuy]

fluoride was the earliest chemical weapon used in human's war history imho, first used during the world war 1 imho

Flourine gas was not available in quantity until WW2

You are thinking of chlorine gas, maybe?

[RandomGuy]

You don't think it's possible to accidentally consume a mere 20 ppm on average? By all means, brush your teeth with whatever you like.

I noticed you didn't answer my questions.

Nor have you glommed on to how one-dimensional the term "ppm" is.

Perhaps you should try to calculate the overall dosages, and it may become clear to you how dumb your statement here is.

[Wild Cobra]

YH

Do you understand what ppm is? It doesn't look like you do.

[RandomGuy]

You're not suppose to swallow it.

I made that point.

You are good at math. Maybe you can answer Y.H.'s questions for him?


Total amount of NaF in the following items:

1) One glass of 1000 milliters of water, concentration 1ppm

2) One drop of toothpaste, 1 milliliter in volume, concentration 1000ppm

[mavs>spurs]

maybe, i'm not a scientist and wouldn't really know how to convert it without researching and i'm not going to look it up just to please a guy on the internet. what i do know is that some studies have shown that fluoride causes brain damage, that much you can't really deny. i just think it's a cause for concern.

[Wild Cobra]

maybe, i'm not a scientist and wouldn't really know how to convert it without researching and i'm not going to look it up just to please a guy on the internet. what i do know is that some studies have shown that fluoride causes brain damage, that much you can't really deny. i just think it's a cause for concern.
I see...

You are just adding to global warming with all that hot air you're spewing.

[mavs>spurs]

yeah someone explain it i'm interested. never claimed to be the founder of this theory, what i find interesting is that all of these foreign studies in countries that don't use fluoride find that it's harmful and are adamantly against it.

[mavs>spurs]

I just linked a study, I didn't claim that I have the expertise to back any of it up and prove it beyond all reasonable doubt. Just like none of you have the ability to do that with any of the articles you post. It's just that, a study, food for thought. There is mounting evidence that fluoride may not be so good.

[Blake]

I use fluoride free toothpaste.

cool, which one?

[RandomGuy]

maybe, i'm not a scientist and wouldn't really know how to convert it without researching and i'm not going to look it up just to please a guy on the internet. what i do know is that some studies have shown that fluoride causes brain damage, that much you can't really deny. i just think it's a cause for concern.

1 part per million.

1000 parts

move the decimal three places. .001

Lastly, "some studies" show a lot of things.

Unfortunately for you, "some studies" = 30 year old, unverified Chinese papers.

[mavs>spurs]

cool, which one?

toms of maine

[Wild Cobra]

yeah someone explain it i'm interested. never claimed to be the founder of this theory, what i find interesting is that all of these foreign studies in countries that don't use fluoride find that it's harmful and are adamantly against it.
ppm is part per million. Therefore, you can't have an accumulated 20 ppm. At 1 ppm, there is one micro-liter per liter. 1/1000's of a cc is pretty small. It would take 20 liters of water for an accumulation of 20 micro-liters. If you have 1000 ppm in toothpaste, and it seems to me you might use 1 cc total in a day, then that is the same one micro-liter... if you swallow all of it.

Is it starting to make sense?

[mavs>spurs]

1 part per million.

1000 parts

move the decimal three places. .001

Lastly, "some studies" show a lot of things.

Unfortunately for you, "some studies" = 30 year old, unverified Chinese papers.

i'm a finance major not a scientist

[mavs>spurs]

ppm is part per million. Therefore, you can't have an accumulated 20 ppm. At 1 ppm, there is one micro-liter per liter. 1/1000's of a cc is pretty small. It would take 20 liters of water for an accumulation of 20 micro-liters. If you have 1000 ppm in toothpaste, and it seems to me you might use 1 cc total in a day, then that is the same one micro-liter... if you swallow all of it.

Is it starting to make sense?

yeah so the volume of the toothpaste is so small that it's actually not much, gotcha. but between the water supply and the toothpaste, I just really don't see the point in taking the risk. fluoride hasn't been proven to be good for the teeth at all, this is a myth. with nothing to gain and health to lose, i just abstain from it until further notice. my city has an unusually high amount of fluoride in the water, some 2.5 times what is in the surrounding cities. I guess it's at the high end of "safe levels"

[Wild Cobra]

yeah so the volume of the toothpaste is so small that it's actually not much, gotcha. but between the water supply and the toothpaste, I just really don't see the point in taking the risk. fluoride hasn't been proven to be good for the teeth at all, this is a myth. with nothing to gain and health to lose, i just abstain from it until further notice. my city has an unusually high amount of fluoride in the water, some 2.5 times what is in the surrounding cities. I guess it's at the high end of "safe levels"
I guess we all have to be afraid of something. My fear is heights.

[Blake]

toms of maine

Toms of Maine fluoride-free contains hydrated silica.

http://www.tomsofmaine.com/products/toothpaste/product-detail/clean-and-gentle-care-sls-free-antiplaque-plus-whitening-fluoride-free-toothpaste

this link says hydrated silica damages enamel:

http://www.oramd.com/6HiddenDangersinToothpaste.pdf

oh noes! what are you going to do?!?!?!?

[TDMVPDPOY]

using a rat compared to a human being when dosage to weight ratio or consumption....then adjusting the results for a human being is just fkn fail

[ChumpDumper]

yeah someone explain it i'm interested. never claimed to be the founder of this theory, what i find interesting is that all of these foreign studies in countries that don't use fluoride find that it's harmful and are adamantly against it.Actually the region where the study was done has a natural level of fluoride 3-7 time that of fluoridated water supplies in the US.

http://www.fluorosisinandhra.org/fluorosisinap_page.htm

I can see why they would want to study the effects of fluoride, but I don't see why they used a level of fluoride three times the level found in the most naturally fluoridated water supply listed.

[Agloco]

i'm a finance major not a scientist

You know, as I read through this thead I said to myself "I'll bet YH doesn't even know what ppm means."

RG has a way of getting to the heart of the matter.

[boutons_deux]

fluoride helps the body absorb aluminum, aluminum is linked with Alzhemer's.

[boutons_deux]

Mercola hates fluoridation, has big compilation of studies:

http://search.mercola.com/search/pages/Results.aspx?k=fluoride

[JoeChalupa]

I think the Crest spokes model is hot.

http://i40.tinypic.com/14dh5rc.jpg

[RandomGuy]

i'm a finance major not a scientist

It's basic algebra, and a tiny, small, easily doable bit of critical thinking.

You do more complex stuff in finance classes than what I asked you to do.

[TDMVPDPOY]

kindian study....did they base the results from the ganji river

[RandomGuy]

You know, as I read through this thead I said to myself "I'll bet YH doesn't even know what ppm means."

RG has a way of getting to the heart of the matter.

Indeed.

Now that we have the meaning of PPM cleared up, i.e. parts per million, the question remains.


Sounds good to me.

I don't eat it by the pound.

Let's try some math, Mr. 3.8

1000 millileters of water contains how much floride at 1ppm?

1 millileter of toothpaste contains how much floride at 1000ppm?

While you are calculating that, maybe someone else will tell the class approximately how much toothpaste out of the 1 millileter that ones places on the toothbrush actually is consumed in the act of brushing ones teeth? A rough estimate will do.

No, I am not concerned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litre
Milliliter = one thousandth of a liter

One liter = .87 quart = A biggish glass of water
One milliliter = 1 cubic centimeter = a VERY big dollop of toothpaste

So let's crunch the math.

1ppm * 1000 milliliters = .001mL total floride compound in glass of water
1000ppm * 1 millileter = .001mL total floride compound in a very large dollop of toothpaste.

The total floride in ONE large dollop of toothpaste is equivalent to the total floride in ONE large glass of water.

If one swallows all that toothpaste, then that is the equivalent of one glass of water.

If one does not swallow the toothpaste, but rather spits 95% of it out, you would have to brush your teeth about 21 times in a day before you have consumed more floride than in the large glass of water, if you use an entire mL.

Given that most use about half (my guess) of that, probably less, that means you would, conservatively, have to brush your teeth about 50 times per day to get the same amount of floride as one large glass of water , or .125 times the recommended amount of water, one is supposed to drink on a daily basis.

I am not a scientist. I am an accountant, albeit one with a high degree of scientific literacy.

No, I am not worried about the floride in toothpaste. When I brush my teeth, I use quite a bit less than 1mL, and I certainly don't brush them fifty times a day.

[RandomGuy]

On a side note, bad for your brain health or not, my teeth have gotten a lot whiter and more healthy since switching to fluoride free toothpaste. And there are also some studies which link it to alzheimers, another disease previously unheard of before the time fluoride was introduced to the water system.

Living to be old enough to get Alzheimers was previously unheard of before the time flouride was introduced to the water system.

Cause, meet correlation.

Black and white people dating was previously unheard of before the time flouride was introduced to the water system.

I wonder if flouride causes racial mixing? :wow

"some studies" = "some people".

http://demog.berkeley.edu/~andrew/1918/figure2.html

Life expectancy for a 50 year old in 1950 was... -3 years. The average person born in 1900 would die by age 50.

The big jumps in life expectancy didn't really take place until the 40's.

Given that
1) most people didn't live long enough to get it,
and
2) there was therefore very little research done on it, so there was very little diagnosis

Drawing a link between floride in the water and Alzheimers, requires a bit more proof.


One reported study suggests that relatively high fluoride in drinking water plays a preventive role in Alzheimer's disease

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1617567

If there were real strong links, they would be easy to spot and identify. The fact that there is a lot of studies on it, and they give conflicting results, suggests that we need to work a bit more at understanding it and the links are not all that strong.