scott. Mr. 1%. Debunk this.

[Parker2112]

The Fed is the root of the following evils:
1) massive bureaucracy which tends to eat up our civil liberties, our economic freedoms, etc,
2) endless(?) funding for endless wars which destabilize our security, serve war profiteers bank accounts, and put a huge burden on our future generations to pay for our immoral murder and exploitation of brown people across the globe
3) the extraction of the wealth of the lower and middle class through inflation tax, which most of the public does not understand and cannot discover through the controlled MSM,
4) enables the blatant insider fraud that our fed legislators currently engage in
5) charges interest for providing a function that could otherwise be done at cost, without putting America in extreme debt. Any monkey can pull zeroes out of his/her ass.
6) Encourages bad investments, causing bubbles which burst leaving us all wet, as it artificially keeps interests rates low, encouraging imprudent borrowing/investment without sufficient savings to justify low interest rates, after which it...
7) performs a manipulation of the business cycle, from boom to bust, in order to facilitate the concentration of wealth at the top of the financial ladder, through fluctuation of currency liquidity
8) As Greenspan admitted, BEST CASE SCENARIO is that the Fed could effectively mimic gold as a slow source of gradual inflation,
9) one of the major functions purported to justify the Fed is economic stability, however a study of history will show that over history we have averaged 1-2 major disruptions per decade.
10) the fed has reduced the dollar's value more than 90% since it took hold of our currency. This robs citizens on fixed income and who diligently and save responsibily.
11) The arrangement is illegal without Constitutional Amendment

[Wild Cobra]

Funny.

I always thought it was the 50%+1 or more who vote for the people that make all this happen.

[Parker2112]

Funny.

I always thought it was the 50%+1 or more who vote for the people that make all this happen.

Shows how little you know.

[Wild Cobra]

Shows how little you know.
It appears you know less, thinking so many people have so much power and so many more are for sale.

Sure they are. Still, it's less the people's fault who learn how to game a system, than it is those who constantly vote the enablers in.

Blame the voters, including yourself. Stop looking at and trying to fix the symptoms. Try to fix the root causes instead. It starts with the voters voting for what politicians say they will do for them. It's called greed, and it takes place in all levels. Not just the top. How can you blame the 1% when most the 99% is bought and paid for as well.

[ElNono]

It appears you know less, thinking so many people have so much power and so many more are for sale.

Sure they are. Still, it's less the people's fault who learn how to game a system, than it is those who constantly vote the enablers in.

Uh? The members of the Fed are voted in?
What the fuck are you babbling about?


How can you blame the 1% when most the 99% is bought and paid for as well.

This makes no sense in the context of the Fed.

[Wild Cobra]

Uh? The members of the Fed are voted in?
What the fuck are you babbling about?

I suggest you read what I said again, after you take off those biased glasses.

[ElNono]

I suggest you read what I said again, after you take off those biased glasses.

Answer the question.

[Wild Cobra]

Answer the question.
What question. You are the one babbling. I never said they were voted in. What do you fail to understand from my statement? Ask me a question you need clarification on.

[ElNono]

What question. You are the one babbling. I never said they were voted in. What do you fail to understand from my statement? Ask me a question you need clarification on.

The one I asked. You're blaming voters for 'enabling' the Fed to do what it does, but voters have no direct say on the Fed's composition.

I don't need clarification. Your retarded posts are patently clear.

[Wild Cobra]

The one I asked. You're blaming voters for 'enabling' the Fed to do what it does, but voters have no direct say on the Fed's composition.

I don't need clarification. Your retarded posts are patently clear.
I see.

You are that evil algebra teacher that needs to see all the steps in between of a math test, or it's wrong.

The people vote for the congress members who enable this to occur.

[ElNono]

The people vote for the congress members who enable this to occur.

Which really goes to show you have no clue what you're talking about. :lmao

Congress has absolutely no control over the Fed's decisions. Neither does the executive. The have certain oversight capabilities, including the selection and confirmation (president + senate) of board members, but the Fed itself is a hybrid public/private entity by design (seeing that it serves both the public in general and private bankers).

Now, if you're advocating the government to remove the private component from the Fed, then you're agreeing with Parker, as the Fed duties would basically be absorbed by the US Treasury.

[Wild Cobra]

Which really goes to show you have no clue what you're talking about. :lmao

Congress has absolutely no control over the Fed's decisions. Neither does the executive. The have certain oversight capabilities, including the selection and confirmation (president + senate) of board members, but the Fed itself is a hybrid public/private entity by design (seeing that it serves both the public in general and private bankers).

Now, if you're advocating the government to remove the private component from the Fed, then you're agreeing with Parker, as the Fed duties would basically be absorbed by the US Treasury.
Congress can choose to change the system.

[ElNono]

Congress can choose to change the system.

So you agree with Parker. Okay.

[Wild Cobra]

So you agree with Parker. Okay.
Not exactly. like I said, he is looking at the symptoms. Not the root causes. We still need to stop being be bought by politicians to vote for them, and vote in politicians who will do what's right for this nation.

The current congress will not change things. Most of them need replaced. That will never happen when people vote on these silly issues of personal favor rather than what's best for everyone. As long as we allow the two sides to play us, we will never be free of the corruption.

[ElNono]

Not exactly. like I said, he is looking at the symptoms. Not the root causes.

He's advocating getting rid of the Fed. That can only be done through Congress.

So you're agreeing with him.

[Wild Cobra]

He's advocating getting rid of the Fed. That can only be done through Congress.

So you're agreeing with him.
I'm not sure we need to get rid of them. Maybe just regulate them better.

[ElNono]

I'm not sure we need to get rid of them. Maybe just regulate them better.

I thought you wanted less government...

[Parker2112]

dxSzPjqPz_M

[Parker2112]

6h-FisYgFjI

[Agloco]

:wakeup

[boutons_deux]

Congress has oversight of the Fed (Fed dudes testify before Congress), but I don't think Congress can make regs for the Fed.

[Parker2112]

Congress has granted them control over our currency, and Congress can take it back. (And civil unrest/civil war/president-losing-his-grey-matter-to-a-lead-projectile would surely follow. Yeah, power over your currency is that damn lucrative.)

[boutons_deux]

Ain't NOBODY gonna fuck with the Fed, because the Repugs and Blue Dog Dems will ALWAYS vote against it to protect the financial sector's ATM.

This Fed threads are fucking stupid.

[Wild Cobra]

Ain't NOBODY gonna fuck with the Fed, because the Repugs and Blue Dog Dems will ALWAYS vote against it to protect the financial sector's ATM.

This Fed threads are fucking stupid.
Not as stupid as most conspiracy threads.

[DMC]

People vote for what's best for them. It doesn't make two shits if the nation is doing great, if the individual's family isn't doing great. Most people who vote are voting for things they want, not things the nation needs.

Since people want different things, with some commonalities, politicians surface who promise the commonalities will be met. That gets people's vote.

Start talking about the Fed to the average voter and you will get a deer in headlights. Talk about their social security check, welfare, medicaid, unions and things that affect their bottom line, then you get their attention.

"Ought to" stances are pointless. No one who ever posted here or anywhere can control what the majority of Americans believe. You can say what you think we all need, but once that curtain closes in the booth, it's all out the window and factors beyond anyone's control cause the voter to select certain individuals.

More likely is the concept of getting acting officials to enact changes but that will only happen when their bottom line is threatened.

Basically, when we decided to be governed, we turned over the keys to them and we are now powerless. The electoral college makes it even more so.

I find it amusing how many people get involved on a national level but cannot tell you the names of the city council members where they live.

[boutons_deux]

WC, you deny that Kock Bros and other wealthy assholes fund ALEC?

[Wild Cobra]

WC, you deny that Kock Bros and other wealthy assholes fund ALEC?
I don't know if they do or not. I don't stalk rich people's activities like you do. I worry about my own life.

If you disagree with how people game the system, then change the system instead of blaming them.

Are you 100% ethical and never take advantage of things when you can?

[scott]

It's all the Flouride. You're smart, I'm just a pawn. Busted!

[boutons_deux]

"I don't know if they do or not"

they are a textbook definition of a conspiracy. Do Your Own Research

I don't stalk rich people, but I guarantee you that rich people stalk all of us, with the intention of sucking our wealth down and dis-empowering us as citizens, patients, employees, etc.

[LnGrrrR]

I think ignorance is the root of all evils. Therefore, I think Parker is the root of all evils, personified.

[LnGrrrR]

Sure they are. Still, it's less the people's fault who learn how to game a system, than it is those who constantly vote the enablers in.

I heartily disagree. Tell me, which candidates are promising not to play the system? And which ones actually hold up to that claim?

[Parker2112]

It's all the Flouride. You're smart, I'm just a pawn. Busted!

Aw, come on scott...lets see that 3.8 run some laps :toast

You've not hesitated in squashing other posters who dared to express doubt about the Fed's operation (and looking like a douche in the process...1%...3.8...LOLZ). Surely you could wad the OP in the palm of your hand and toss it out like the disposable conspiracy trash it is :rollin

Surely you wouldn't let a dumb ass like me walk away after calling you out...surely you would inlfate your clout a lil more (eagle scout? president's fitness club?) and stamp out these ridiculous conspiracy theories before they start spreading amongst other dumb ass 99% who didn't know better :downspin:

Or is it just easier to smear my character and leave the policy arguments alone?

[Bill_Brasky]

I don't know if they do or not. I don't stalk rich people's activities like you do. I worry about my own life.

If you disagree with how people game the system, then change the system instead of blaming them.

Are you 100% ethical and never take advantage of things when you can?

People like you miss the point of Occupy entirely. It's not about crying because other people have more than you because you're jealous.

There was a time where a man working 40 hours a week could raise a family of 5. Today people are working 70 or 80 hours a week to just get by. Those are hard working people that any sensible person would applaud for their work effort, but again,the problem isn't about having or not having the drive to work that much. It's the question of whether or not it is fair that people have to work that much. You shouldn't have to work 80 hours a week. You CAN work that much. I've done that much. A lot of people here have done that much. But it shouldn't be a requirement to pay the bills.

So when people see the gap between the middle and upper class get bigger and bigger,and the amount of money the rich make each year keeps going up even if the success of their work is going down (see: bailout bonuses),all while the middle class are working harder and longer all so they can struggle to stay in the middle class... That's what people are complaining about.

[Parker2112]

Hats off to Bill Brasky for explaining the above in plain English...sadly, however, its still language that WC wont be able to comprehend.

[spursncowboys]

I don't understand it either. The rich making more money doesn't take from another's ability to make more money.

There is no “pie” to cut up. Wealth is not like oil, wealth is as abundant as the wind or sunlight. When we act as if wealth is a pie to be cut up we actually retard the further creation of new wealth! The idea that there can only be a “few” wealthy people is based on a mindset that prevents people from believing they can create new wealth. Because people believe they can’t create more wealth they tend to either accept their “place” in the economic scheme or they tend to want to amass as much wealth as possible for fear that they will not be able to get their “piece of the pie”. This leads to a slave mentality on the part of most people. This is the beggar’s position of always asking for as much as possible while trying to give as little as possible but being forced to give more and more for less and less. We need to be liberated from this concept of wealth as a finite thing before we can fully take advantage of the tremendous leveraging power of participatory economics, hereafter simply referred to as Concordian economics, to create unlimited wealth and win the war against poverty.

[spursncowboys]

Also I thought they were mad that Banks got bail outs (forced upon them for some btw fwiw) and they couldn't find jobs. Then I thought it was about college tuition sky rocketing while professors are getting raises and what not.

[spursncowboys]

People like you miss the point of Occupy entirely. It's not about crying because other people have more than you because you're jealous.

There was a time where a man working 40 hours a week could raise a family of 5. Today people are working 70 or 80 hours a week to just get by. Those are hard working people that any sensible person would applaud for their work effort, but again,the problem isn't about having or not having the drive to work that much. It's the question of whether or not it is fair that people have to work that much. You shouldn't have to work 80 hours a week. You CAN work that much. I've done that much. A lot of people here have done that much. But it shouldn't be a requirement to pay the bills.

So when people see the gap between the middle and upper class get bigger and bigger,and the amount of money the rich make each year keeps going up even if the success of their work is going down (see: bailout bonuses),all while the middle class are working harder and longer all so they can struggle to stay in the middle class... That's what people are complaining about.
There was also a time when there weren't guaranteed college loans and federal grants for a majority of people going to school. Also that same period, which I'm assuming is before the 70's, there were drafts, and not woman in the workforce as much as now.

[Wild Cobra]

I heartily disagree. Tell me, which candidates are promising not to play the system? And which ones actually hold up to that claim?
You know how with stocks, there is a disclaimer to the effect that past performance may not represent future results? Well with politicians, I say past performance applies. We have people who vote for politicians who promise to game the system for them, and incumbents generally have. Don't you think these same politicians will game the system for large contributors the same way they will for votes?

As long as we, as voters, vote in the politicians who promise use the stuff that goes outside "the general welfare," expect these same politicians to provide favors to large contributors.

[Wild Cobra]

People like you miss the point of Occupy entirely. It's not about crying because other people have more than you because you're jealous.

There was a time where a man working 40 hours a week could raise a family of 5. Today people are working 70 or 80 hours a week to just get by. Those are hard working people that any sensible person would applaud for their work effort, but again,the problem isn't about having or not having the drive to work that much. It's the question of whether or not it is fair that people have to work that much. You shouldn't have to work 80 hours a week. You CAN work that much. I've done that much. A lot of people here have done that much. But it shouldn't be a requirement to pay the bills.

So when people see the gap between the middle and upper class get bigger and bigger,and the amount of money the rich make each year keeps going up even if the success of their work is going down (see: bailout bonuses),all while the middle class are working harder and longer all so they can struggle to stay in the middle class... That's what people are complaining about.
Are you saying corporations are the root problem? I disagree. I do agree that a single family worker at one time could provide for a family, in almost any job available. There are several ways we did this to ourselves. To blame big business is being short sighted. Again, you are not looking at the root problems. You are looking at the symptoms.

[Wild Cobra]

Hats off to Bill Brasky for explaining the above in plain English...sadly, however, its still language that WC wont be able to comprehend.
No, I completely understood his point. Sorry you fail to understand mine.

[Wild Cobra]

There was also a time when there weren't guaranteed college loans and federal grants for a majority of people going to school. Also that same period, which I'm assuming is before the 70's, there were drafts, and not woman in the workforce as much as now.
Both spouses working is one reason why wages are down. Simple supply and demand economics at work.

[RandomGuy]

It's all the Flouride. You're smart, I'm just a pawn. Busted!

Translation:

"Parker you are an idiot and not worth my time."

[RandomGuy]

Aw, come on scott...lets see that 3.8 run some laps :toast

You've not hesitated in squashing other posters who dared to express doubt about the Fed's operation (and looking like a douche in the process...1%...3.8...LOLZ). Surely you could wad the OP in the palm of your hand and toss it out like the disposable conspiracy trash it is :rollin

Surely you wouldn't let a dumb ass like me walk away after calling you out...surely you would inlfate your clout a lil more (eagle scout? president's fitness club?) and stamp out these ridiculous conspiracy theories before they start spreading amongst other dumb ass 99% who didn't know better :downspin:

Or is it just easier to smear my character and leave the policy arguments alone?

Translation:

"Please, please, please, stroke my ego."

:rollin

[Parker2112]

You know it makes you two look like butt buddies whenever you feel like you have to come in here and defend him. I'm sure an "economist" like scott can defend himself just fine if his positions are right.

Butt buddies indeed.

Scott may know more than most about the nuts and bolts, but he has yet to give the policy and legal precedent the slightest. That wont stop him from citing his "mental superiority" when he gets his chance. The OP is just a little more involved than he prefers.

RG! Keep up the bootlicking, you worm!:lol

[RandomGuy]

You know it makes you two look like butt buddies whenever you feel like you have to come in here and defend him. I'm sure an "economist" like scott can defend himself just fine if his positions are right.

Translation:

"I'm going to throw in with own own butt buddy to get you and your butt buddy to stroke by butt buddy's ego".

[RandomGuy]

Butt buddies indeed.

Scott may know more than most about the nuts and bolts, but he has yet to give the policy and legal precedent the slightest. That wont stop him from citing his "mental superiority" when he gets his chance. The OP is just a little more involved than he prefers.

RG! Keep up the bootlicking, you worm!:lol

Translation:

"Maybe RG will stroke my ego."

[RandomGuy]

The Fed is the root of the following evils:
1) massive bureaucracy which tends to eat up our civil liberties, our economic freedoms, etc,
2) endless(?) funding for endless wars which destabilize our security, serve war profiteers bank accounts, and put a huge burden on our future generations to pay for our immoral murder and exploitation of brown people across the globe
3) the extraction of the wealth of the lower and middle class through inflation tax, which most of the public does not understand and cannot discover through the controlled MSM,
4) enables the blatant insider fraud that our fed legislators currently engage in
5) charges interest for providing a function that could otherwise be done at cost, without putting America in extreme debt. Any monkey can pull zeroes out of his/her ass.
6) Encourages bad investments, causing bubbles which burst leaving us all wet, as it artificially keeps interests rates low, encouraging imprudent borrowing/investment without sufficient savings to justify low interest rates, after which it...
7) performs a manipulation of the business cycle, from boom to bust, in order to facilitate the concentration of wealth at the top of the financial ladder, through fluctuation of currency liquidity
8) As Greenspan admitted, BEST CASE SCENARIO is that the Fed could effectively mimic gold as a slow source of gradual inflation,
9) one of the major functions purported to justify the Fed is economic stability, however a study of history will show that over history we have averaged 1-2 major disruptions per decade.
10) the fed has reduced the dollar's value more than 90% since it took hold of our currency. This robs citizens on fixed income and who diligently and save responsibily.
11) The arrangement is illegal without Constitutional Amendment

Seriously though, all kidding aside, which do you want picked apart first?

We could just start at the beginning, I guess.


[The Fed is to blame for the] massive bureaucracy which tends to eat up our civil liberties, our economic freedoms, etc,

I see Point A, "the Fed", and Point B, the "massive bureaucracy"

Fed------------------------------------------> massive bureaucracy"

How exactly is the Fed to blame for massive bureacracy? Draw the line from point A to point B.

I don't see the Fed as really causing the need to have my meat/airplanes inspected. That is caused by bacteria and cracks in airframes.

[RandomGuy]

I don't understand it either. The rich making more money doesn't take from another's ability to make more money.

No one said it did.

[Agloco]

People like you miss the point of Occupy entirely. It's not about crying because other people have more than you because you're jealous.

There was a time where a man working 40 hours a week could raise a family of 5. Today people are working 70 or 80 hours a week to just get by. Those are hard working people that any sensible person would applaud for their work effort, but again,the problem isn't about having or not having the drive to work that much. It's the question of whether or not it is fair that people have to work that much. You shouldn't have to work 80 hours a week. You CAN work that much. I've done that much. A lot of people here have done that much. But it shouldn't be a requirement to pay the bills.

So when people see the gap between the middle and upper class get bigger and bigger,and the amount of money the rich make each year keeps going up even if the success of their work is going down (see: bailout bonuses),all while the middle class are working harder and longer all so they can struggle to stay in the middle class... That's what people are complaining about.

Clear, congent takes have no place in this forum tbh.

[Agloco]

Both spouses working is one reason why wages are down. Simple supply and demand economics at work.

Why are both spouses working again?

[Wild Cobra]

Why are both spouses working again?
Several different reasons. Still, it is one of the causes. One of those vicious circles.

[RandomGuy]

I think ignorance is the root of all evils. Therefore, I think Parker is the root of all evils, personified.

There is no capital more useful than intellect and wisdom, and there is no indigence more injurious than ignorance and unawareness.
--Ali ibn Abu Talib (c. 600 - 661)

[ElNono]

Why are both spouses working again?

Clearly the solution to economic woes is to send the wife back to the kitchen...

[Parker2112]

There is no capital more useful than intellect and wisdom, and there is no indigence more injurious than ignorance and unawareness.
--Ali ibn Abu Talib (c. 600 - 661)

Are you just playing ignorant to the OP's obvious flaws, or are you just too injured and/or indigent to pose insightful opposition?

I saw your weak attempt on the other thread...

I would hope you could do better than that. But I wouldn't put money on it. Prove me wrong if you are able.

[scott]

I'll eventually respond to you, but I've been on vacation in the Pacific NW. Get back later this week, hopefully in time for us to solve all the planet's problems

[RandomGuy]

Are you just playing ignorant to the OP's obvious flaws, or are you just too injured and/or indigent to pose insightful opposition?

I saw your weak attempt on the other thread...

I would hope you could do better than that. But I wouldn't put money on it. Prove me wrong if you are able.

Goober, I already responded. Jeez. read the previous page.

[Parker2112]

uhhh...no you didnt.

to quote WH, "do you're own homework."

[Parker2112]

I'll eventually respond to you, but I've been on vacation in the Pacific NW. Get back later this week, hopefully in time for us to solve all the planet's problems

Cant wait :)

[Wild Cobra]

I'll eventually respond to you, but I've been on vacation in the Pacific NW. Get back later this week, hopefully in time for us to solve all the planet's problems
I thought you were gong to send me some pictures...

[Parker2112]

Its a shame scott is the only "progressive" on this board that can even attempt to rebut the OP.

[Winehole23]

to quote WH, "do you're own homework."that's a misquote

[Winehole23]

Its a shame scott is the only "progressive" on this board that can even attempt to rebut the OP.circularity. you just throw stuff on the wall and expect others to debunk it, assuming its validity.

Lazy!

[LnGrrrR]

I heard Ron Paul eats babies. Will Parker have the guts to debunk it?

[scott]

The Fed is the root of the following evils:
1) massive bureaucracy which tends to eat up our civil liberties, our economic freedoms, etc,

Is the Fed the root of these massive bureaucracies? Seems as though these massive bureaucracies tend to exist independent of the Fed.


2) endless(?) funding for endless wars which destabilize our security, serve war profiteers bank accounts, and put a huge burden on our future generations to pay for our immoral murder and exploitation of brown people across the globe

Your blame for this (not focused on whether or not "this" is true, because its irrelevant) is misplaced. The funding for these wars is obtained by congress, which has the authority to borrow money on backing of the faith and credit of the United States, which has never defaulted on a loan in its history. Regardless of if we have the Fed, or any of its functions, congress can still achieve this.


3) the extraction of the wealth of the lower and middle class through inflation tax, which most of the public does not understand and cannot discover through the controlled MSM,

You are right, that most of the public doesn't understand the inflation tax. They can't learn about it from the "MSM" either, but would you want them to? The "MSM" doesn't understand the inflation tax either, why would you want the blind teaching the blind to use a telescope?

The inflation tax is a real thing that has real costs that go beyond even the arbitrary redistribution of wealth (which happens in a few ways as a result of an inflation tax, but I don't feel the need to get into a 75 minute lecture on here). There are also the shoeleather & menu costs in addition to relative price distortions that can cause misallocation of resources that are part of what we call the "inflation tax".

This actually makes a case FOR the fed, which tries to limit the damage caused by the inflation tax by keeping inflation low and stable (which it very much is in America).

At the same time, there is a contingent of Economists that argue that there exists a Laffer Curve for the inflation tax, where the optimal rate of the tax is greater than zero as to act as an economic stabilizer while not have regressive outcomes (and, in fact, the inflation tax can be very much progressive - it can arbitrarily shift wealth from creditors to debtors). But it is (to my knowledge) a fairly new field of study and is not a widely accepted concept at this point.

In any event, the inflation tax is not a creation of the Fed, and empirically you will find that the Fed has kept the inflation tax relatively low.




4) enables the blatant insider fraud that our fed legislators currently engage in

Our legislators don't need the Fed to engage in fraud. If fraud occurs on Tuesdays, does that mean that Tuesdays are enabling fraud?


5) charges interest for providing a function that could otherwise be done at cost, without putting America in extreme debt. Any monkey can pull zeroes out of his/her ass.

I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about here... but what "at cost" function works in a free market economy?


6) Encourages bad investments, causing bubbles which burst leaving us all wet, as it artificially keeps interests rates low, encouraging imprudent borrowing/investment without sufficient savings to justify low interest rates, after which it...

Monetary Policy is an interesting beast that works a lot like a pedal that only moves in two directions, but effects more than one thing. If your focus is on interest rates, the Fed can do that - but then it might fail on spurring economic activity, moderating inflation, moderating unemployment, etc.

I'll only address the Monetary function of the Fed on this point and whether having "artificially low" interest rates encourages bad investment. The regulatory function of the banking industry is done elsewhere.

I'd definitely agree our bank regulatory system could use a MAJOR overhaul (and I say this as someone who was once upon a time part of that system).


7) performs a manipulation of the business cycle, from boom to bust, in order to facilitate the concentration of wealth at the top of the financial ladder, through fluctuation of currency liquidity

They absolutely perform a manipulation of the business cycle - smoothing it out.

You don't have any evidence to support the accusation they do so in order to aid a concentration of wealth, because it doesn't exist anywhere outside of your Conspiracy Theory blogs.


8) As Greenspan admitted, BEST CASE SCENARIO is that the Fed could effectively mimic gold as a slow source of gradual inflation,

So?


9) one of the major functions purported to justify the Fed is economic stability, however a study of history will show that over history we have averaged 1-2 major disruptions per decade.

One of the major functions of laws is to prevent certain activities from taking place (for example, Murder), yet those activities still occur. Does that mean that having laws is stupid?

We haven't had a "major" disruption since the Great Depression. The fact you think otherwise is evidence of your failure to grasp the world around you and what really constitutes an economic disruption. The United States has been the world's most stable economy, no matter if Spoiled Americans think the end times are upon us because we have 10% unemployment.


10) the fed has reduced the dollar's value more than 90% since it took hold of our currency. This robs citizens on fixed income and who diligently and save responsibily.

Yes, the value of the dollar compared to gold has fallen since we've stopped tying the value of the dollar to gold (predictable). Yet real wages in the United States have increased in the same period, and the ability to purchase gold with dollars has diminished has not impacted what the real purchasing power of individuals (that was increasing real wages mean).


11) The arrangement is illegal without Constitutional Amendment

File a lawsuit.

______________

At the end of the day, your anger is misguided based on your lack of understanding of the way the economy works. I understand you've read a lot on the internet which you feel makes you an expert - and anyone who disagrees is just a pawn of the system. If that's the way you think, so be it. But so long as you hold on to ridiculous notions that the Fed is to blame for the world's maladies because they exist to enrich the 1% and assassinate presidents who dare to challenge them, you'll find yourself continually isolated as "the only smart one."

I humored you by responding to this, but I likely won't be taking the time in the future. Feel free to think it's because I'm just a pawn working at the feet of my masters, because I really don't care.

[RandomGuy]

uhhh...no you didnt.

to quote WH, "do you're own homework."

Lazy, lazy lazy. It was the third from the bottom, had you bothered to actually scroll down.


Seriously though, all kidding aside, which do you want picked apart first?

We could just start at the beginning, I guess.



I see Point A, "the Fed", and Point B, the "massive bureaucracy"

Fed------------------------------------------> massive bureaucracy"

How exactly is the Fed to blame for massive bureacracy? Draw the line from point A to point B.

I don't see the Fed as really causing the need to have my meat/airplanes inspected. That is caused by bacteria and cracks in airframes.

[boutons_deux]

Both spouses working is one reason why wages are down. Simple supply and demand economics at work.

absolute bullshit

millions of women entering the workforce in late 70s and 80s is the only reason households were able to hold their real income FLAT!

wages are down since St Ronnie initiated the war on employees because UCA/VRWC has demonized/busted unions to nothing (unions were a huge reason real wages were solid and increasing for everybody), the war on employees even as productivity and real GDP rise, and shifting everybody's-boat-floating wage increases to mgmt and stockholders.

[Parker2112]

Lazy, lazy lazy. It was the third from the bottom, had you bothered to actually scroll down.

I read it. Talk about lazy. You want me to do your homework for you.

Scott, pick up your lapdog's slack already.

[TeyshaBlue]

I read it. Talk about lazy. You want me to do your homework for you.

Scott, pick up your lapdog's slack already.

Lrn2read.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5501236&postcount=65

[Parker2112]

Lrn2read.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5501236&postcount=65

Thanks, dick...didnt see it :) This is going to be good.

[Parker2112]

Is the Fed the root of these massive bureaucracies? Seems as though these massive bureaucracies tend to exist independent of the Fed.



Your blame for this (not focused on whether or not "this" is true, because its irrelevant) is misplaced. The funding for these wars is obtained by congress, which has the authority to borrow money on backing of the faith and credit of the United States, which has never defaulted on a loan in its history. Regardless of if we have the Fed, or any of its functions, congress can still achieve this.



You are right, that most of the public doesn't understand the inflation tax. They can't learn about it from the "MSM" either, but would you want them to? The "MSM" doesn't understand the inflation tax either, why would you want the blind teaching the blind to use a telescope?

The inflation tax is a real thing that has real costs that go beyond even the arbitrary redistribution of wealth (which happens in a few ways as a result of an inflation tax, but I don't feel the need to get into a 75 minute lecture on here). There are also the shoeleather & menu costs in addition to relative price distortions that can cause misallocation of resources that are part of what we call the "inflation tax".

This actually makes a case FOR the fed, which tries to limit the damage caused by the inflation tax by keeping inflation low and stable (which it very much is in America).

At the same time, there is a contingent of Economists that argue that there exists a Laffer Curve for the inflation tax, where the optimal rate of the tax is greater than zero as to act as an economic stabilizer while not have regressive outcomes (and, in fact, the inflation tax can be very much progressive - it can arbitrarily shift wealth from creditors to debtors). But it is (to my knowledge) a fairly new field of study and is not a widely accepted concept at this point.

In any event, the inflation tax is not a creation of the Fed, and empirically you will find that the Fed has kept the inflation tax relatively low.





Our legislators don't need the Fed to engage in fraud. If fraud occurs on Tuesdays, does that mean that Tuesdays are enabling fraud?



I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about here... but what "at cost" function works in a free market economy?



Monetary Policy is an interesting beast that works a lot like a pedal that only moves in two directions, but effects more than one thing. If your focus is on interest rates, the Fed can do that - but then it might fail on spurring economic activity, moderating inflation, moderating unemployment, etc.

I'll only address the Monetary function of the Fed on this point and whether having "artificially low" interest rates encourages bad investment. The regulatory function of the banking industry is done elsewhere.

I'd definitely agree our bank regulatory system could use a MAJOR overhaul (and I say this as someone who was once upon a time part of that system).



They absolutely perform a manipulation of the business cycle - smoothing it out.

You don't have any evidence to support the accusation they do so in order to aid a concentration of wealth, because it doesn't exist anywhere outside of your Conspiracy Theory blogs.



So?



One of the major functions of laws is to prevent certain activities from taking place (for example, Murder), yet those activities still occur. Does that mean that having laws is stupid?

We haven't had a "major" disruption since the Great Depression. The fact you think otherwise is evidence of your failure to grasp the world around you and what really constitutes an economic disruption. The United States has been the world's most stable economy, no matter if Spoiled Americans think the end times are upon us because we have 10% unemployment.



Yes, the value of the dollar compared to gold has fallen since we've stopped tying the value of the dollar to gold (predictable). Yet real wages in the United States have increased in the same period, and the ability to purchase gold with dollars has diminished has not impacted what the real purchasing power of individuals (that was increasing real wages mean).



File a lawsuit.

______________

At the end of the day, your anger is misguided based on your lack of understanding of the way the economy works. I understand you've read a lot on the internet which you feel makes you an expert - and anyone who disagrees is just a pawn of the system. If that's the way you think, so be it. But so long as you hold on to ridiculous notions that the Fed is to blame for the world's maladies because they exist to enrich the 1% and assassinate presidents who dare to challenge them, you'll find yourself continually isolated as "the only smart one."

I humored you by responding to this, but I likely won't be taking the time in the future. Feel free to think it's because I'm just a pawn working at the feet of my masters, because I really don't care.

Im impressed. Instead of speaking down from on high, you brought what you had to offer, which honestly is probably a lot. I'll get back with you on this this weekend.

P.S. My take is gathered from Ron Paul and Ron Paul related sources. If you call that conspiracy laden, then so be it.

[RandomGuy]

I read it. Talk about lazy. You want me to do your homework for you.

Scott, pick up your lapdog's slack already.

Not my job to prove your point. Shifting the burden of proof is dishonest.

[DMC]

Goddamn necroGuy, get a fuckin' life.

[RandomGuy]

Goddamn necroGuy, get a fuckin' life.

Criticism from you makes me happy.