How private healthcare keeps Americans cowed and compliant

[Capt Bringdown]

A view from across the pond:



A New York spider gave me an insight into US private healthcare (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/04/new-york-spider-us-private-healthcare)


It's not just the 59 million Americans living without health insurance and unable to access treatment for everyday maladies without crippling expense. It's the millions more who dare not risk a dispute with their boss for fear of losing their medical cover, who expect to remortgage their homes in old age to meet the costs of failing health, or who live in fear of bankruptcy should they develop a chronic condition or have an accident.

The notion of a society that sanctions companies to profit from sickness feels barbaric enough, without then forcing ordinary people to choose between medical treatment and the financial future of their families.

...I understood what it really means to be without means in America. Those who are wealthy enough to afford decent healthcare have their needs met in relative luxury, while those who are poor live in fear of getting ill, worrying that one misadventure might leave you with yet more debts to pay off.
- more - (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/04/new-york-spider-us-private-healthcare)

[Winehole23]

does the lack of health care coverage keep one cowed and compliant as well? in the US it is somewhat typical to have none at all.

[LnGrrrR]

does the lack of health care coverage keep one cowed and compliant as well? in the US it is somewhat typical to have none at all.

I wouldn't say that a lack of coverage emboldened anyone. :lol

[Winehole23]

adversity is the handmaiden of invention. people are very resourceful.

[LnGrrrR]

adversity is the handmaiden of invention. people are very resourceful.

Agreed in most cases, but I don't see many "how to cure cancer at home with a lighter and a fishing pole" DIYs out there. One can go without creature comforts; going without necessary treatment is another story altogether. (Of course, the bugaboo is in defining down necessary.)

[Winehole23]

ok. sometimes they die for lack of treatment. sometimes the treatment damn near kills them.

others are killed essentially by their own stubbornness.

[Wild Cobra]

Wow... I must have missed the memo... I didn't know curing people of cancer and other ailments was a right.

[ElNono]

Wow... I must have missed the memo... I didn't know curing people of cancer and other ailments was a right.

It's not the only thing you missed. Your non-sequitur didn't address anything in the OP nor the ensuing discussion...

[Capt Bringdown]

adversity is the handmaiden of invention. people are very resourceful.

a flat, dull, or trite remark, especially one uttered as if it were fresh or profound

[RandomGuy]

adversity is the handmaiden of invention. people are very resourceful.

Indeed. Many make use of the resources available to those without insurance. ER's and bankruptcy courts.

Not exactly resources that come cheap for the rest of us.

That is why the lack of a single payor system costs us $$ every day we don't institute it.

[LnGrrrR]

Wow... I must have missed the memo... I didn't know curing people of cancer and other ailments was a right.

Who said it was? I merely stated that WH's statement that invention is borne of necessity doesn't play well into the whole health care debate, as one can't usually MacGyver up a cancer-curing machine.

In fact, the "invention" people tend to when they're terminally ill usually involves figuring out how they can possibly pay for medical treatments while still having food and shelter.

[spursncowboys]

does the lack of health care coverage keep one cowed and compliant as well? in the US it is somewhat typical to have none at all.

Are you saying a majority of Americans do not have health care coverage?

[Winehole23]

a flat, dull, or trite remarkthat or understatement. it was in response to "fixing cancer with a fishng pole and some string."

[LnGrrrR]

that or understatement. it was in response to "fixing cancer with a fishng pole and some string."

I'm curious as to how you somehow responded to my comment before I posted it. Can you read minds now as well WH? :)

[Winehole23]

you are correct. it was a response to the OP's sweeping generalization. i regret the mistake.

[greyforest]

Can't have a healthcare thread without posting this graph.

Healthcare expenditure per capita, private vs public

http://topforeignstocks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/oecd-health-expenditure-gdp-per-cpita.PNG

[101A]

Can't have a healthcare thread without posting this graph.

Healthcare expenditure per capita, private vs public

http://topforeignstocks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/oecd-health-expenditure-gdp-per-cpita.PNG

So we spend more PER CAPITA publicly than just about any other country, and that again privately, as we STILL don't have everyone covered?

The problem is not WHO is paying; it's how much it costs. Germany, for instance, has a mandate for all people to buy insurance; then a mandate for how much the insurance can cost, and finally (and most importantly), SEVERE price controls.

My German exchange student (lived with us for a year; went back this summer), just had appendicitis - did not rupture. German surgeon opened him up to take it out - 4 -5 inch incision. Two week recovery. I was surprised; NO WAY that's not arthroscopic here. Not saying our prices are justified, but there is a difference.

[Winehole23]

It seems to be Capt. Bringdown's contention that most Americans are "kept passive and servile" by their benefits. In other words that we're cowardly, self-serving and cheaply bought off.

Pointing out that not everyone receives benefits is surely germane and anyone at all may question the original hypothesis.

[101A]

Also, in direct response to the OP: In many businesses that don't offer healthcare, I guess employees resist conflict with the boss, less they lose their PAYCHECK.

[LnGrrrR]

you are correct. it was a response to the OP's sweeping generalization. i regret the mistake.

Think nothing of it. :toast I just noted it because my comment was in direct response to yours re: the term invention.

[Winehole23]

@101A: which turns us all into cowards and venal spongers, supposedly

[Winehole23]

Think nothing of it. :toast I just noted it because my comment was in direct response to yours re: the term invention.i misremembered it by heart. i should have checked the thread first.

[boutons_deux]

"less they lose their PAYCHECK."

Precisely, The financial sector trashing the world's economy plays right along with UCA's war on employees, firing them, busting their unions, screwing down the salaries and benefits, and implicitly threatening them with firing if they don't like it.

[Winehole23]

I was surprised; NO WAY that's not arthroscopic here. Not saying our prices are justified, but there is a difference.good point

whether it is worth the difference in price is more or less subjective

[boutons_deux]

my daughter had her infected appendix out, arthroscopic in NYC, can't find the scar. IIRC, it was outpatient.

[Winehole23]

the old normal. a teacher of mine back in the 70s had a three inch scar where he had his appendix out. as I recall, the doctors were a little bit miffed he did his own wound care.

[Agloco]

My German exchange student (lived with us for a year; went back this summer), just had appendicitis - did not rupture. German surgeon opened him up to take it out - 4 -5 inch incision. Two week recovery. I was surprised; NO WAY that's not arthroscopic here. Not saying our prices are justified, but there is a difference.

Laparoscopic?

At any rate, I believe that profit taking and patient care are incongruent philosophies. You necessarily have a conflict here.

BTW....I have a cure for cancer. Just waiting for the highest bidder to step forward. (This should obviously be in blue).

[ElNono]

At any rate, I believe that profit taking and patient care are incongruent philosophies. You necessarily have a conflict here.

ding, ding, ding... we have a winner...

[ElNono]

My German exchange student (lived with us for a year; went back this summer), just had appendicitis - did not rupture. German surgeon opened him up to take it out - 4 -5 inch incision. Two week recovery. I was surprised; NO WAY that's not arthroscopic here. Not saying our prices are justified, but there is a difference.

BTW, just wanted to add that laparoscopic appendectomy is:
A) More expensive
B) Carries a risk (generally low) not found in open surgery of pneumoperitoneum
C) The recovery time difference vs open surgery is negligible

[boutons_deux]

yeah, laparoscopic (abdomen,pelvis), not arthroscopic (joints)