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View Full Version : VY in the NFL: what position?



jalbre6
06-16-2005, 07:43 PM
Me and a couple other Orangebloods went to lunch today, and this subject came up. If Matt Jones was drafted as a wideout in the first round, could Vince? We've all watched what a great athlete Jones was in the games against Arkansas the last few years against the Horns, and if guys like Hines Ward can be Pro-Bowlers, Jones should have no trouble adjusting. But could VY?

Of course, Young could learn how to throw over the shoulder and begin a UT run of dynastic proportions. Hell, I'll settle for a win or two over OU at this point. Reports from the Spring looked good for Vince.

mookie2001
06-18-2005, 09:23 PM
vince could have been picked the first day in the 05 draft as a WR, just from stuff i read i think he really wants to try and be a qb. in the 06 draft he'd go top 5, as a qb/ath- I HOPE he stays and has a good 5th year and passes well he could be the number 1 in 07 easy, more hype and upside then mike vick then

Mr. Peabody
06-20-2005, 12:53 PM
vince could have been picked the first day in the 05 draft as a WR, just from stuff i read i think he really wants to try and be a qb. in the 06 draft he'd go top 5, as a qb/ath- I HOPE he stays and has a good 5th year and passes well he could be the number 1 in 07 easy, more hype and upside then mike vick then

If he wants to play QB in the NFL, he has to work on his mechanics. That little "dart throw" he does on short passes won't cut it in the NFL. Last year, the coaching staff tried to change his mechanics and he listened for a while, but once the season got going he reverted back to his old passing style.
________
AngelxFace (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/AngelxFace/)

mookie2001
06-20-2005, 01:05 PM
yeah but if he throws better with bad mechanics then you have to let him throw bad, at least now anyway

its like they say if one guy can run a 4.2 40 with perfect mechanics and one guy can run a 4.2 with bad mechanics you take the guy with bad mechanics bc you can teach him to use good mechanics and he'll run even faster

i know he sidearms it though, if he throws a 60 yard post route he's not gonna side arm it, when he's rolling out on a bootleg, he's more inclined to, which are the plays where he completes most of his passes and a high %

Ballcox
06-20-2005, 04:51 PM
I guess I could see Vince playing WR in the NFL, maybe even TE, although he would have to put on some weight. But, I think he has his sights on playing QB in the NFL, it's also one of the primary reasons I think he stays at UT through his senior year. He needs two more years of starting experience, and more work on his passing game. I went to some of the Spring practices, and his progression/reads in the passing game look much better. He seems to just have more confidence throwing the ball, particulalry the short routes which he's had problems with in the past. Also, I think he has more confidence in his WR's this season, they should play a much bigger role in the passing game than last year. He won't forget about David Thomas though, that guy is set for a huge season, he could easily be a 2nd-3rd round guy in next year's draft at TE.

respect the 'fro :fro

samikeyp
06-21-2005, 06:16 PM
Wr

scott
06-21-2005, 09:23 PM
Although it might be fair to Vince, it really depends on how Matt Jones does. If he flops, I think Vince falls to rounds 2 or 3. If Jones does even semi-decent, Vince becomes a top 10 pick.

PS: I don't think there is anyway he gets drafted as a QB.

Dingle Barry
06-22-2005, 09:53 AM
Let's see how he does with a real quarterback coach. Greg Davis' kids probably can't tie their shoes.

TheTruth
07-06-2005, 03:32 AM
Bench

Horry For 3!
07-06-2005, 04:03 AM
Vincent Young is a bad bad man. He tore up Michigan on his own. lmfao

TheTruth
07-06-2005, 04:06 AM
Point out a quarterback in the NFL that throws sidearm?

Ballcox
07-06-2005, 12:23 PM
There have been a few, most times the team they play for will try and coach them to throw that classic elevated release point throw. I know B. Kosar was a big time side arm thrower, and did pretty well with throwing it that way. Also, D. Carr had a sideways type release, the Texans have worked with him to have more of an over the top release. I think Vince can get away with that release in college becaue he's 6'5, and the D linemen just aren't as big. I don't know if he can get away with it at the NFL level. He does definitely seem to have plenty of arm strength to throw at the NFL level.

scott
07-06-2005, 10:06 PM
The difference is that Bernie Kosar and David Carr were good quaterbacks in college...

word
07-07-2005, 01:39 AM
Well he sure won't end up like Jason 'waterboy' White. He'll actually get drafted. He'll actually play.

King
07-07-2005, 08:35 AM
Rich Gannon throws sidearm.

Mr Dio
07-07-2005, 09:01 AM
The difference is that Bernie Kosar and David Carr were good quaterbacks in college...

You mean like Jason White, HYped Out Huepel, (Insert another ouSELESS here), etc...
What a DUMBASS!

word
07-07-2005, 05:18 PM
OU Quarterbacks do seem to fall off the map after their college careers. Jason White winning the heisman was one of the worst picks. Not THE worst but a terrible pick. Gino Terreta (SP) was certainly not a great choice....

Fact is what's made OU OU these past years is those big bruisers from Texas that occupied the trenches. Well, what am I saying, last year over 60% of their roster was from Texas and even more of that their starters. If they had to field a team with Oklahoma talent they would be another Oklahoma State at best.

" OU Football, there's nothing like it because there's no such thing. "

violentkitten
07-07-2005, 05:43 PM
bust

violentkitten
07-07-2005, 05:45 PM
OU Quarterbacks do seem to fall off the map after their college careers. Jason White winning the heisman was one of the worst picks. Not THE worst but a terrible pick. Gino Terreta (SP) was certainly not a great choice....

Fact is what's made OU OU these past years is those big bruisers from Texas that occupied the trenches. Well, what am I saying, last year over 60% of their roster was from Texas and even more of that their starters. If they had to field a team with Oklahoma talent they would be another Oklahoma State at best.

" OU Football, there's nothing like it because there's no such thing. "


well, why aren't the top linemen recruits going to the almighty texas program? stop whining.

word
07-07-2005, 05:58 PM
Not smart enough.

scott
07-07-2005, 06:32 PM
You mean like Jason White, HYped Out Huepel, (Insert another ouSELESS here), etc...
What a DUMBASS!

So, the best you can come up with to defend Vince Young being a terrible passer is that the OU QB's who have dominated Texas for the last 5 years didn't make it in the pros...

Hmmmmm... okay.

word
07-07-2005, 06:42 PM
Vince Young is a bad passer ?

Jason White, the year of his Heisman, 61% completions, 451 attempts for 3800 yards. Vince Young Sophmore year 59%, 222 attempts for 1600 yards.
8.2 -vs- 7.5 in 2004.

Of course, Jason rushed for -150 yards, Young for almost 900.

So take total offense they created when they had the ball into account and VY comes out on top of that calculation. He may not be a GREAT passer, but he doesn't suck, by any stretch. If he does, then Jason White was the most horrendous QB to ever win the Heisman...

scott
07-07-2005, 09:37 PM
White also had 40 TDs passing against 10 Ints that year.

Vince had 12 TDs and 11 Ints.

It doesn't take stats to see that Young is not a good passer. He makes Quincy Carter look like Brett Favre.

scott
07-07-2005, 09:38 PM
Vince Young is a bad passer ?

Jason White, the year of his Heisman, 61% completions, 451 attempts for 3800 yards. Vince Young Sophmore year 59%, 222 attempts for 1600 yards.
8.2 -vs- 7.5 in 2004.

Of course, Jason rushed for -150 yards, Young for almost 900.

So take total offense they created when they had the ball into account and VY comes out on top of that calculation. He may not be a GREAT passer, but he doesn't suck, by any stretch. If he does, then Jason White was the most horrendous QB to ever win the Heisman...

Oh yeah, almost forgot about this gem.

3800 - 150 = 3650
1600 + 900 = 2500

Math must not have been your strong suit.

word
07-07-2005, 10:01 PM
JW=3800 - 150 = 3650 which he did so throwing over 2 times as much as VY.
VY=1600 + 900 = 2500 which he did throwing less than half the time as JW.

Yeah well, JW had to pass over twice as much to get that number and did so behind the baddest ass front line in college football.

If VY had thrown the ball as much as JW he'd of been close to JW's passing numbers and what he did on the ground is a diff of 1000 yards. But the bottom line is ..sure White got more yards passing...he threw the ball twice as much. My momma could toss the rock 1000 yards behind OU's front line last year.

Do the math again, Scooter. Is VY a 'terrible' passer ? Sure some of those VY yards can be attributed to being run out of the pocket and forced to run but there were also a LOT of running plays called. More so as the year went on.

Bottom line is VY will get drafted in the first round of the NFL AND play.

Jason White is a waterboy who got his numbers behind a bigass front line from Texas who, I might add, is no longer there.

There's blood in the water in Norman....simple as that.

scott
07-07-2005, 11:00 PM
What are you trying to prove? Vince Young is an amazing athlete, and I've never said anything about his running ability. But I'll say something now... it's amazing. Happy?

That doesn't change the fact he isn't a good passer. Just LOOK at his throws... they are terrible.


Yeah well, JW had to pass over twice as much to get that number and did so behind the baddest ass front line in college football.

1. Vince ran the ball 170 times last year, the season in question for White (when he lost 150 yards) he only ran 42 times, 26 of which were actually sacks (sacks count as rushes in college football). The reason why? JASON WHITE ISN'T A SCRAMBLING QB, VINCE YOUNG IS.

2. You can't just double the number of attemps and assume Vince Young would have double the production. The reason Texas didn't run as many passing plays is because 1) Vince Young is a much better runner than he is a passer and 2) he isn't a good enough QB to throw more than 20 passes a game.

But since you are so convinced that Vince's passing stats are comparable... let's look at the real stat... QB rating.

Last year, Vince Young only had 4 games with a QB rating of over 150. Meanwhile, White put up 10 with ratings over 150. You don't get a higher rating by just throwing more passes. Young's career passer rating: around 130. White's: around 150.

Face it, as far as being a passer is concerned, White was better. White was a good college QB and that's all he'll ever be. That's fine. College football games and championships aren't won by comparing which school has more guys in the pros... they are won on the field. Why you Texas fans seem to use this as inspiration from recent OU QB's not making it to the NFL beyond me, seeing as how they beat you every time they stepped on the field over the last 2 years.

If OU QB's are so terrible, why can't you stop them? Oh yeah... because we had a great o-line... Well, I believe Texas has had some very high drafted O-linemen over the last 5 years... why couldn't your guys find a way to beat OU with them?


Bottom line is VY will get drafted in the first round of the NFL AND play.


I've already stated that he should probably be a first round pick... at WR. He will never succeed as an NFL QB, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out... just someone who isn't wearing Burnt-Orange colored glasses.

word
07-07-2005, 11:41 PM
[QUOTE=scott]What are you trying to prove? Vince Young is an amazing athlete, and I've never said anything about his running ability. But I'll say something now... it's amazing. Happy?

That doesn't change the fact he isn't a good passer. Just LOOK at his throws... they are terrible.

/[QUOTE]

Yes, that's what I'm trying to prove. You say he isn't a good passer..so be it.
I don't care about his mechanics. This isn't synchronized swimming or gymnastics here.

His passes fell into the hands of his recievers at just about the same rate as Jason Waterboy Whites did when his sorry ass won the Heisman. ( Which is EASILY in the top 5 of worst Heisman winners.)

VY will FAR exceed the numbers JW did and be a WORTHY Heisman Trophy candidate.

Mr Dio
07-09-2005, 08:01 PM
So, the best you can come up with to defend Vince Young being a terrible passer is that the OU QB's who have dominated Texas for the last 5 years didn't make it in the pros...

If he was a terrible passer UT would run the wishbone like the hillbillies. :lol

violentkitten
07-09-2005, 09:00 PM
seems to work against texas.

Mr Dio
07-09-2005, 10:00 PM
seems to work against texas.

ouSELESS doesn't run the 'bone! :lol
Ignorant Pussy!
You should stick to the litter box since all you ever leave anywhere is shit. :lol

word
07-10-2005, 12:55 AM
And this is where the Spurs fans 'split the sheets' as it were.

You may be a Spurs fan, scooter, but this isn't a Sooner board, slick. You want to drown your sorrows this year, this ain't the place and trust me...OU is in HUGE trouble this year.

And it's not like you can bring any pride here other than 'we beat Texas'. Yeah, and you did...and went to a National title and lost not once, but twice with one massive embarrassment to the big XII. The Orange Bowl was one massive Jason Waterboy White BEATDOWN. Meltdown II. No Stoops II, no Texas front line....

OU is done this year and probably next....

This is what Sooner fans need to do for a while....














STFU

violentkitten
07-10-2005, 07:34 AM
this isn't a ut fan forum either, slick.

Mr Dio
07-10-2005, 09:37 AM
this isn't a ut fan forum either, slick.

Pssst, Hey Feline Douche..Look at the title of the thread.

word
07-10-2005, 09:39 AM
I don't think he reads much. Last I looked, San Antonio was in Texas, not Oklahoma. But this is the essense of a sooner fan. They must latch on to other teams elsewhere most of the year because the Sooners, who's very name derives from cheating, is all they have. ALL they have.

Not ONE professional sports team. Zilch. Nada. Zero. And it drives 'em fockin' crazy. Sooners are Razorbacks, basically, with a slightly better team.

Perhaps you could start a thread with UO in in the title. That would give him a place to play.

Mr Dio
07-10-2005, 10:51 AM
Most of the clowns won't name their team because 1 way or another every team in sports has had it handed to them. The pompom wavers are the worst, they won't sack up & name their team.

violentkitten
07-10-2005, 12:40 PM
last time i checked you dont have to be a texas fan just because you live in texas.

that's a rather simplistic standard, and frankly, not real shocking considering the caliber of intellect you two have demonstrated in this forum.

did either of you actually go to ut?

Mr Dio
07-10-2005, 12:45 PM
last time i checked you dont have to be a texas fan just because you live in texas.

Don't recall ever saying that because you live in a specific state/city you have to or don't have to support that team.
I guess you don't have a comeback for the fact that I've been going to UT games (30yrs +)longer than you've been out of the closet?

violentkitten
07-10-2005, 01:03 PM
they don't give you a diploma for attending games. you get a ticket stub instead.

congrats.

Mr Dio
07-10-2005, 01:04 PM
EXACTLY Ignorant Pussy!

I am a fan!
NEVER claimed to be a student.
You now are a true MENSA mbr.. :lol

violentkitten
07-10-2005, 01:06 PM
texas alumni throughout the world breathe a sign of relief.

Mr Dio
07-10-2005, 01:07 PM
Wow! That was an awesome reply!
And it only took 2 min!

violentkitten
07-10-2005, 01:10 PM
yeah. i guess i'll have to try again to beat your 1 minute reply time.

congrats.

Mr Dio
07-10-2005, 01:14 PM
There, I waited 5min so I wouldn't be a dumbass like you.

violentkitten
07-10-2005, 01:18 PM
sorry man, i'm checking out other shit while i'm clowning your ass. i'll try to give you my undivided attention from now on.

Mr Dio
07-10-2005, 01:19 PM
Yeah, I've got to run for now but I'll get your panties in a bunch again later.

Louae
07-11-2005, 10:10 AM
I've already stated that he should probably be a first round pick... at WR. He will never succeed as an NFL QB, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out... just someone who isn't wearing Burnt-Orange colored glasses.

Truer Words were never spoken.

Louae
07-11-2005, 10:11 AM
If he was a terrible passer UT would run the wishbone like the hillbillies. :lol

If it got rid of Greg "Idiot" Davis, I would be in favor of it.

word
07-11-2005, 08:59 PM
Truer Words were never spoken.

Not really. Dante Culpepper.

Louae
07-12-2005, 08:31 AM
Not really. Dante Culpepper.

you lost me there, buddy.

SWC Bonfire
07-12-2005, 08:51 AM
I sincerely hope that somebody isn't trying to compare the passing mechanics of Vince Young with those of Dante Culpepper.:lol

mookie2001
07-12-2005, 09:21 AM
dam if only wins and losses were decided on mechanics

SWC Bonfire
07-12-2005, 09:26 AM
dam if only wins and losses were decided on mechanics

No, but they sure help.:lol There is hope for VY yet, I don't see him as a receiver. And he will have to improve his throwing motion to make it to the next level as a quarterback. It is doable, but I hope personally that he doesn't figure it out until after he goes to the NFL. :tu

Mr Dio
07-12-2005, 08:03 PM
Let me ask, who in the board's opinion does have the best or perfect mechanics in College & Pro?

I honestly don't know.

jalbre6
07-12-2005, 08:16 PM
Best mechanics in the NFL? Probably Peyton, then his brother, and then either Kerry Collins or Carson Palmer. Also, I've always liked the way Steve McNair threw, even if he planted a little bucketfooted. McNabb's got a pretty good motion as well.

In college (and still eligible)? Hmmm, that's tough. USC's Matt Leinart, obviously. Brodie Croyle of Alabama, that Grabowski guy from Toledo, and Tye Gunn from TCU from what I can remember.

Mr Dio
07-12-2005, 08:19 PM
Oh yeah, Peyton!
What do you think of Vick's motion/mechs?

jalbre6
07-12-2005, 08:24 PM
Vick's mechanics suck. Big time. But when a guy runs a sub 4.3 40 and can throw 50+ yards across his body to the right side, who cares?

By the way, Reggie McNeal at A&M supposedly runs a 4.35 and can throw the ball 60 yards. The best time I've seen for VY was 4.46.

Oscar DeLa
01-09-2006, 08:12 PM
I don't know what it is but I was looking back at some of the posts in this thread
and they were funny
what a difference 7 months make


6/18/05

vince could have been picked the first day in the 05 draft as a WR, just from stuff i read i think he really wants to try and be a qb. in the 06 draft he'd go top 5, as a qb/ath- I HOPE he stays and has a good 5th year and passes well he could be the number 1 in 07 easy, more hype and upside then mike vick then
6-21-05

Wr
6-21-05

Although it might be fair to Vince, it really depends on how Matt Jones does. If he flops, I think Vince falls to rounds 2 or 3. If Jones does even semi-decent, Vince becomes a top 10 pick.

PS: I don't think there is anyway he gets drafted as a QB.


7-6-05

Bench
7-705

bust
7-7-05


It doesn't take stats to see that Young is not a good passer. He makes Quincy Carter look like Brett Favre.
7-7-05


Bottom line is VY will get drafted in the first round of the NFL AND play.

7-7-05



he isn't a good passer. Just LOOK at his throws... they are terrible.


he isn't a good enough QB to throw more than 20 passes a game.


I've already stated that he should probably be a first round pick... at WR. He will never succeed as an NFL QB, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out... just someone who isn't wearing Burnt-Orange colored glasses.
7-12-05

dam if only wins and losses were decided on mechanics

Cant_Be_Faded
01-09-2006, 10:09 PM
I'm gonna have to agree with Oscar. I JUST WANT MOOOORREE!!!!