Ben Wallace is the difference

[geerussell]

Ben showed up and the pistons responded to him. It's as simple as that. If he stays active as he's been so far in games 3/4 it will be tough for SA to win another game.

:fro

[GrandeDavid]

Ben Wallace is a rebounding vacuum. His energy, his balls, his desire have all been very impressive.

[violentkitten]

pretty easy to be active when you can foul and not be called for it.

[geerussell]

Leaving aside the irony of a spurs fan blaming the refs for their troubles... the foul calls weren't the issue with Ben Wallace in the first two games. He wasn't "engaged" for most of the miami series and the first two games of this one regardless of the whistle.

[Browns_shadow]

Leaving aside the irony of a spurs fan blaming the refs for their troubles... the foul calls weren't the issue with Ben Wallace in the first two games. He wasn't "engaged" for most of the miami series and the first two games of this one regardless of the whistle.
While Manu was MVP through two games, it has to be Ben for 3 and 4.
I don't think anyone would entirely blame the refs for what is happening tonight, despite how much contact Ben is getting away with.

[Dre_7]

Well if the Spurs dont show up again, Detroit will in it in 6. But I think that the Spurs will decide to show up sometime. Maybe not today, but at least one of these games they will play.

[Nocioni]

http://tinypic.com/658hut
http://pauldcarter.srv1.pmachinehosting.com/images/uploads/sorry.jpg
http://img.slate.msn.com/media/1/123125/123037/2093460/2109868/041123_RonArtest.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050607/capt.aaa11506070344.pistons_heat_aaa115.jpg

[whottt]

Ben Wallace is a great player...but I bet if you ask the world if they'd rather have Duncan or both Wallaces...most of the world outside of Detroit would say Duncan....There are good reasons most people would say that...we just haven't seen them lately. Duncan needs to remind us why in game 5.

http://img237.echo.cx/img237/8731/img79587992du.jpg

[geerussell]

Ben Wallace is a great player...but I bet if you ask the world if they'd rather have Duncan or both Wallaces...most of the world outside of Detroit would say Duncan....There are good reasons most people would say that...we just haven't seen them lately. Duncan needs to remind us why in game 5.



There's no denying Duncan's greatness when it comes to basketball skills, but my original point in this thread wasn't to make a comparison between Duncan and Ben. I was saying that for this piston team, the difference between going through the motions for two games and playing 48 intense minutes for two games was Ben Wallace bringing the energy and effort.

I have to say though, in four years of watching Ben Wallace I've never witnessed a scene like this:
http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/nba/2005/0617/photo/a_duncan_372.jpg

[z0sa]

Ben Wallace doesn't have to do good for the Pistons to win. But if he doesnt do good against the Spurs, the Pistons will lose. Now it may seem as if I am contradicting myself, but understand the facts:

1. Rebounding: unless Big Ben does well in the rebounding statistic (as he has in 3 and 4) the Spurs dominate the boards.

2. Strange shots falling.... since when does Ben Wallace hit a fadeaway jumper with a big man in his face? I'm not calling it luck, but seriously.

3. His blocked shots: hes of course a huge presence in the paint, but during the regular season that never deterred Duncan or Ginobili. Now hes swatting every ball that comes in his area... gee, some of those have got to be calls. They call little fouls on Bowen when rasheed is setting moving screens on him and yet they won't call ben for all the pushing and shoving he's doing to duncan, its really a sad sight to see.

The thing is: Ben is bound to cool off, especially if the Spurs - and Duncan especially - are playing well. I'm just hoping Tim has one of those games where he hits the glass, scores with reckless abandon, and blocks more than his share of shots (remember, he was second in the league during the regular season in avg blocked shots). I mean its hard to imagine every spur having an offnight, which isnt necessarily the case, but Duncan is frustrated with the nocalls, his teammates (ahem, Beno, barry, even ginobili) are giving him passes he either has no chance of getting with ben guarding him or that will force him to fight for and lose his position and allow the double team or even triple team to come. And notice that they are fronting him with two guys at times to, especially when a player is playing nearby him to get him the ball.

[FCBarca]

I'm really kinda surprised at the level of criticism levied against Ben Wallace and the 'fouls' that aren't called on him...In particular, using Bowen as an example of someone who has been unfairly whistled in comparison really seems laughable...You step outside the great state of Texas and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks Bowen is anybody but a mugger dressed in an NBA uniform...You'll hear people around the league complain about Mutombo's elbows when he was DPOY, Artest for being a maniac & getting away with too much on defense as well as Bowen for all his tactics that are less than legal...But I can't think of a DPOY who has the respect among his peers without calls of 'dirty play' or 'getting away with calls' than Ben...I am sure that there are calls that are missed on Ben when he does foul but the guy is not a fouling player and he's not an Oakley type who gets away with overly physical play...He's a freak of nature that once he's retired, we may never see one quite like him again.

[z0sa]

I can already name a player much like him: dennis rodman. And secondly, Hamilton has had two big games so Bowen cant be hurting him too much; besides, Wallace definitely is overly physical, he guarded Shaq one on one and yet you're saying he's not overly physical? Wallace can be defensive player of the year all he wants, but Tim Duncan is two time mvp - since when does he get no calls when wallace is clearly hitting other than ball? Its a man's game on the block, but any other player played Duncan that way he'd be fouled out of the game in the first half. The only reason wallace has kept Duncan in "check" with the likes of 16 points and whatnot is because the refs won't call anything on him, allowing him to simply push Duncan right out of his game.

[Sense]

Leaving aside the irony of a spurs fan blaming the refs for their troubles... the foul calls weren't the issue with Ben Wallace in the first two games. He wasn't "engaged" for most of the miami series and the first two games of this one regardless of the whistle.


I remember that "charge" he wanted...

He got a technical for it..

I'm sorry but you are wrong.

[FCBarca]

A majority does not an opinion make but I fear Spurs fans are in the minority when attributing Ben's influence on games to the refs swallowing their whistles...Particularly, when comparing it to the tactics by guys like Bowen or the flopping of Manu...Just one of those opinions that the myopia of being a fan will produce...Comparing him to Dennis Rodman?...Come on

I'll do you one better...Tim Duncan is a great player but is he great because he's 6'11" or because his skills are that much better than any other basketball player?...If he were 6'7" would he be better than Rip Hamilton?...Would he likely see less calls as a result of being 4 inches shorter?...He gets calls because he lives on the block and at his size and for his abilities, few can guard him...But that's the rub, there aren't a lot of great defensive frontcourt players in the league save Ben Wallace...At 6'7" or 6'8" how is Ben Wallace blocking all those shots and it even possibly being a foul?...Is he holding onto Duncan's shorts so he can't jump higher than him?...He's a freak of nature because for his size he has the quickness to stay with Jermaine O'Neal yet the strength to respectably hold his own against Shaq

[MadDog73]

Ben Wallace. What can you say? So far, he's been huge for the Pistons.

But I still think he's boring to watch :lol

(a joke because of the Tim Duncan is boring thread)

[ObiwanGinobili]

Yes Ben wallace is a good player. He made the difference in games 3 & 4 adn sparked his team.
Is this the thread where we say that?

[Perfect10]

pretty easy to be active when you can foul and not be called for it.

ALL superstars who play hard and with energy get away with breaking a rule or two every now and then. Try naming one who doesn't.


Ben Wallace is a great player...but I bet if you ask the world if they'd rather have Duncan or both Wallaces...most of the world outside of Detroit would say Duncan....There are good reasons most people would say that...we just haven't seen them lately. Duncan needs to remind us why in game 5.

If you asked random people around the country that's probably true, but if you asked NBA GM's...9 out of 10 would prefer Ben and Rasheed Wallace over Duncan and there are good reasons why they would say that.

[MadDog73]

If you asked random people around the country that's probably true, but if you asked NBA GM's...9 out of 10 would prefer Ben and Rasheed Wallace over Duncan and there are good reasons why they would say that.


Why would you say that?

If you asked them after Game 1 and 2, would they still take the Wallaces over Tim?

If the Spurs win the series, you would still take the Wallaces?

Duncan has been outplayed the last two games, true. But in case there are still some people who think this series is over, it's not.

[SoundTheToll]

http://img237.echo.cx/img237/8731/img79587992du.jpg

Offensive foul. I hate that SC shows that play so much. It was a blatant foul, and TD should be shown making a great, clean play.


And no. Whoever said that the world would take Duncan over BOTH Wallaces is wrong. Any GM in the league will take both Wallaces over Duncan, unless they already have Shaq or KG. Very few single players are better than two All-Stars combined.

[geerussell]

The thing is: Ben is bound to cool off

Shooters "cool off" not defenders. That's like saying Bruce Bowen is bound to cool off... defense is effort and that can be brought every night.

[NASHville]

The Spurs must stop Big Ben or it is over.

[MadDog73]

Shooters "cool off" not defenders. That's like saying Bruce Bowen is bound to cool off... defense is effort and that can be brought every night.


Good point.

I guess the onus is on Tim and the Spurs. They need to outhustle and out-think the Piston defense. Which will not be easy.

Hopefully, these two days off have helped the Spurs and Pop get refocused at the task at hand.

Looking forward to a good game tonight. Hope Spurs and Pistons bring their "A" game so we can finally see some Championship ball and not lopsided wins or losses.

[whottt]

Offensive foul. I hate that SC shows that play so much. It was a blatant foul, and TD should be shown making a great, clean play.


And no. Whoever said that the world would take Duncan over BOTH Wallaces is wrong. Any GM in the league will take both Wallaces over Duncan, unless they already have Shaq or KG. Very few single players are better than two All-Stars combined.

Amazing the impact that geography has on human beings...I happen to think that's a great picture and love it every time it gets shown on SC. I think they should show it more.

As for your excuse...be glad Wallace didn't get called for the foul while Duncan was taking a piss on him.



Oh and:
http://img237.echo.cx/img237/8731/img79587992du.jpg


Maybe it's just me...but ole Ben doesn't look bored by Duncan in that picture.

[Marklar MM]

http://img237.echo.cx/img237/8731/img79587992du.jpg


Maybe it's just me...but ole Ben doesn't look bored by Duncan in that picture.


He is liking that massage Duncan's elbow is giving to his back.

[Skeezy]

Big Ben is the younger version of rodman hes good at what he does cause hes clever and sneaky and knows what hes doin just like rodman..........but i say pistons take game 5 simply because they've got all this momentum goin and i say it will carry over into this game.............but they gotta be firing on all cylinders.........and their guards gotta stay active and they must D up............and plus pistons don't lose playoff games at home it just doesn't happen

[cheguevara]

They are not takin game 5. At least not as easily. THis game will be called very differently and Pistons will not get away will all they've been getting away with. THis game will go down to the wire.

[violentkitten]

bump