*** Official Dallas Mavericks 2011-2012 Discussion thread ***

[mavs>spurs]

Something of note for Mav fans

So basically you were wrong again.

[BUMP]

nothing pleases me more than the smell of a man's ass and watching his testicles bounce up and down

[MavDynasty]

Tbh if da triple d dynasty happens, can't wait for all the bandwagoning fucksticks to show up

[Brazil]

Howard / Williams / Dirk together... thats a scary thought tbh

[DPG21920]

Well, we certainly hope that will come true... I'm pretty confident in D-Will coming here. Dwight I have no idea what to expect though...

I have said since the beginning that Dallas's only real shot at Deron/Dwight was if they reach FA. I still maintain they should have resigned Tyson, made another run & then salary dumped him in the off season.

Even if they get to FA I don't agree Dallas is a favorite like the writer said. If they hit FA Dallas has a decent shot but NJ will have more money to offer, better young talent because they didn't have to trade (Brook Lopez, Marshon Brooks, a great shooter in Morrow, Damion James...) and what appears to be a top flight pick in a deep draft.

If NJ is attractive to Dwight after a trade is done like he said, it has to be even more attractive option if they don't gut the team to get him.

Dallas definitely has a shot at both if they make it to FA, but as the article states, it doesn't seem likely Orlando lets him walk for nothing.

[mavs>spurs]

^It's still more of a possibility than you were initially willing to admit. Where's mono at he knows.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I don't think Tiago is a guy that can be truly reliable consistently come playoff time. If the Spurs want to beat more than one of the elite teams in playoff series (which would be required to win a title), they will need their 3s to fall. They might be able to beat one, MAYBE two elite teams, but I don't think they can last for 4 playoff series.

You know what we need stretch, it's one more reliable big man. Anyone that can block shots and rebound. If we can fix that, I think we can get to the WCF.

[Findog]

I have said since the beginning that Dallas's only real shot at Deron/Dwight was if they reach FA. I still maintain they should have resigned Tyson, made another run & then salary dumped him in the off season.

Even if they get to FA I don't agree Dallas is a favorite like the writer said. If they hit FA Dallas has a decent shot but NJ will have more money to offer, better young talent because they didn't have to trade (Brook Lopez, Marshon Brooks, a great shooter in Morrow, Damion James...) and what appears to be a top flight pick in a deep draft.

If NJ is attractive to Dwight after a trade is done like he said, it has to be even more attractive option if they don't gut the team to get him.

Dallas definitely has a shot at both if they make it to FA, but as the article states, it doesn't seem likely Orlando lets him walk for nothing.

Dallas is a much better organization than New Jersey. They should be considered in the same class as the Lakers, Spurs and Heat when it comes to being desirable places to play. I'd also put the Bulls and Knicks in the category of destination franchises, but that's based solely on where they're located. The Thunder is another first-class franchise but I think they will always have trouble attracting premium free agents to Oklahoma City...thus the model of building their team through the draft.

Back to my original point, I think all things being equal, I think most players would rather play for the Mavs over the Nets. The Knicks would be a different story because of their heritage and still being considered the "A" team in that media market...

[DPG21920]

Organizationally perhaps, but talent wise, money wise (more money to offer) & the new Cuban-type owner? For better or worse there's a reason Dwight is publicly forcing his way to NJ.

I guess what I'm saying is that all things aren't equal in this situation IMO.

[m>s]

dirk needs to keep playing like a god instead of an ass that should be our main element of scent appealing to them niggas tbh. a combo of DH & Deron wouldn't sound too bad but in this league today you need another superstar to make big 3. dirk needs to remain @ superstar level & shows he still has a couple more good years ahead of him.

[m>s]

^^ LA & dallas are the only teams nigga will sign extension with per his own words tbfh :rolleyes

we are a better team RIGHT NOW then any other team that's also chasing DH's ass, dirk's showing no fucking sign of aging unlike the TOSB rapist kobe & his lakers. nigga DH will make the right choice for himself imho

[Findog]

Organizationally perhaps, but talent wise, money wise (more money to offer) & the new Cuban-type owner? For better or worse there's a reason Dwight is publicly forcing his way to NJ.

I guess what I'm saying is that all things aren't equal in this situation IMO.

How is the new owner Cuban-like? He's extremely hands off and would rather run for President of his own country than improve the Nets? The Nets are just another toy he got bored with.

[mavs>spurs]

DPG is a hater, Fin. Don't get sucked in.

[Samuel Eto'o]

Organizationally perhaps, but talent wise, money wise (more money to offer) & the new Cuban-type owner? For better or worse there's a reason Dwight is publicly forcing his way to NJ.

I guess what I'm saying is that all things aren't equal in this situation IMO.

1. Dallas can offer both Dwight and Dwill max FA contracts if they work things right. They obviously couldn't offer Dwill as much as NJ can, but they can offer him as much as any other team.
2. Dirk+Dwight+Dwill is enough talent.
3. :wow a Cuban-type owner? I wish Dallas had one of does!

[Findog]

The Magic's trading partners are only the teams he'll sign an extension with: Nets, Lakers, Mavs. So they're not going to get anywhere close in equal value for Howard. The Lakers can give them the most in return (Bynum + spare parts), and they almost always get who they want. So I would not all be surprised if he ends up out there. New Jersey and Dallas can only really offer crap. Plus there's the usual factors, LA being the second-largest market, going to a glamour team, etc...so either Howard gets traded at the deadline to the Lakers, or he reaches FA and signs with Dallas.

I think Dallas has the second-best chance of getting him, with New Jersey the dark horse. I do think we'll get Deron.

[pass1st]

Everybody seems to want to go to Dallas

[Basketballgirl25]

Howard / Williams / Dirk together... thats a scary thought tbh

Williams / Howard = scary, Dirk not so much since he is older and you can never know for sure how he will hold up he might have 1 year left or 3, who knows for sure and Deron / Howard doesn't look as scary as Heat, Knicks, Thunder, Bulls, etc.:toast

[Basketballgirl25]

The Magic's trading partners are only the teams he'll sign an extension with: Nets, Lakers, Mavs. So they're not going to get anywhere close in equal value for Howard. The Lakers can give them the most in return (Bynum + spare parts), and they almost always get who they want. So I would not all be surprised if he ends up out there. New Jersey and Dallas can only really offer crap. Plus there's the usual factors, LA being the second-largest market, going to a glamour team, etc...so either Howard gets traded at the deadline to the Lakers, or he reaches FA and signs with Dallas.

I think Dallas has the second-best chance of getting him, with New Jersey the dark horse. I do think we'll get Deron.

Deron will go to the Knicks and Mavs and Nets will be fucked:lol

[Brazil]

Williams / Howard = scary, Dirk not so much since he is older and you can never know for sure how he will hold up he might have 1 year left or 3, who knows for sure and Deron / Howard doesn't look as scary as Heat, Knicks, Thunder, Bulls, etc.:toast

I think that Dirk has some good bb years left to play. Pair him with DH and you will find again the 2011 Dirk

[mavs>spurs]

dirk and dwight would compliment eachother massively, even more than dirk and chandler did

[Basketballgirl25]

I think that Dirk has some good bb years left to play. Pair him with DH and you will find again the 2011 Dirk

oh I think Dirk has a good year or two ahead, I just don't think its a good as people think. If Deron /Dwight aren't Nets I want them on any team not named Knicks :lol

[mavsfan1000]

Yep hoping for the 3D's. Dwight, Dirk, and Devin. :D

[DPG21920]

How is the new owner Cuban-like? He's extremely hands off and would rather run for President of his own country than improve the Nets? The Nets are just another toy he got bored with.

With regards to deep pockets and willingness to spend.

[DPG21920]

The Magic's trading partners are only the teams he'll sign an extension with: Nets, Lakers, Mavs. So they're not going to get anywhere close in equal value for Howard. The Lakers can give them the most in return (Bynum + spare parts), and they almost always get who they want. So I would not all be surprised if he ends up out there. New Jersey and Dallas can only really offer crap. Plus there's the usual factors, LA being the second-largest market, going to a glamour team, etc...so either Howard gets traded at the deadline to the Lakers, or he reaches FA and signs with Dallas.

I think Dallas has the second-best chance of getting him, with New Jersey the dark horse. I do think we'll get Deron.

NJ has more to offer in a trade than Dallas. While no superstars Lopez isn't crap and morrow & brooks are appealing young players. Their ability to absorb bad contracts helps to (although Dallas has some of that aspect too).

I'm already on record saying I think he will be traded to the Nets. I also think NJ is ahead of Dallas in FA.

IMO if Dwight is traded its: NJ/LA/DAL
If he hits FA: NJ/DAl

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Spurs have to have extremely hot 3 point shooting to win a series against Dallas though. Really, if their 3's aren't falling against most any team, they are toast.

That's funny. You guys rely on 3's as much if not more than us.

[Findog]

NJ has more to offer in a trade than Dallas. While no superstars Lopez isn't crap and morrow & brooks are appealing young players. Their ability to absorb bad contracts helps to (although Dallas has some of that aspect too).

I'm already on record saying I think he will be traded to the Nets. I also think NJ is ahead of Dallas in FA.

IMO if Dwight is traded its: NJ/LA/DAL
If he hits FA: NJ/DAl

I think Dwight is not completely sold on New Jersey. It would be him, Deron and NOTHING else in Brooklyn. In Dallas it would be him, Deron AND Dirk, an organization that is first-class and has won a championship.

If he's traded, it will be because the Lakers dropped their resistance to dealing Bynum.

If he hits FA, he's a Mav.

[JamStone]

Wait. I can see Dallas signing Deron Williams this summer. But how do you propose the Mavericks sign both Williams and Dwight? The money just doesn't work unless both guys take considerably less than max. Dallas already has $40 million+ committed to 4 guys next season that aren't reasonably tradable, Dirk, Marion, Haywood, Carter. And none of them make sense for either New Jersey or Orlando to take back in return in a sign-and-trade. I don't see how Dallas has the financial flexibility to sign both guys.

I do see them as a heavy favorite in luring Deron Williams. I just don't see both.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Well JamStone, I think that's why you are seeing the Mavs trying so hard to shop Marion. If they can get rid of his contract that would really open the floodgates for signing Deron and Dwight to max contracts.

Bill Simmons is saying Cuban has been pimping Marion for defensive player of the year in hopes of boosting his trade value :lol

[clambake]

haywood still lost out there. he does something right and immediately kills it by doing the very next thing wrong.

[MavDynasty]

Wait. I can see Dallas signing Deron Williams this summer. But how do you propose the Mavericks sign both Williams and Dwight? The money just doesn't work unless both guys take considerably less than max. Dallas already has $40 million+ committed to 4 guys next season that aren't reasonably tradable, Dirk, Marion, Haywood, Carter. And none of them make sense for either New Jersey or Orlando to take back in return in a sign-and-trade. I don't see how Dallas has the financial flexibility to sign both guys.

I do see them as a heavy favorite in luring Deron Williams. I just don't see both.

Carter has a dampier like contract with the second and third year being partially guaranteed. It would only be a couple mill for Cuban to buy the contract out. As for Haywood/Marion, we still have the amnesty clause.

[MavDynasty]

Dirk would also restructure his contract to make the numbers work

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

People make such a big deal out of Dallas not being able to offer the full max or more money then the Nets can, but didn't all of the big 3 in Miami take less to play together?

[DAF86]

Spurs have to have extremely hot 3 point shooting to win a series against Dallas though. Really, if their 3's aren't falling against most any team, they are toast.

Not too long ago, with rosters similar to these ones the Spurs beat the Mavs 4-2 and we won a game where we didn't hit a single three.

[DPG21920]

I think Dwight is not completely sold on New Jersey. It would be him, Deron and NOTHING else in Brooklyn. In Dallas it would be him, Deron AND Dirk, an organization that is first-class and has won a championship.

If he's traded, it will be because the Lakers dropped their resistance to dealing Bynum.

If he hits FA, he's a Mav.

Dwight has made it known he prefers NJ. If he hits FA it will be NJ because it will be Dwight/Deron/Lopez/Brooks/Morrow/James + a heck of a first round pick in a deep draft.

If Dwight is traded to NJ they only do so knowing he will sign with them. So either way, especially with Dwight himself saying he prefers NJ, NJ appears to be the more desirable spot. You seem to place way to much emphasis on "world class organizations" and the impact on FA decisions. Spurs are the cream of the crop of world class organizations, have 4 titles & and had a superior player to Dirk and still couldn't land free agents. It's about money first and foremost and then team second. Mavs can't offer both Dwight and Deron full contracts. They can get close but D&D will have to leave money on the table to sign with Dallas; that's not the case in NJ. Also Dallas will be capped out and depleted, NJ will still have good talent and a great draft pick.

If its via trade, the point is moot, Dallas has no real shot then and Orlando likely isnt letting Dwight walk for nothing. They are likely not going to trade him to LA due to perception as well unless it's a no brainer lIke Pau AND Bynum. Dallas should hope for ORL to trade with LA because that gets them at least Deron.

[DPG21920]

Dirk would also restructure his contract to make the numbers work

Can't do that.

[DPG21920]

Findog is right about Dallas cap though. Odom is only owed 2M of his 8M. Carter is owed 2M of his 3M. Then they can amnesty Haywood's 9M. Even with that they can't offer both max deals.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Dwight has made it known he prefers NJ. If he hits FA it will be NJ because it will be Dwight/Deron/Lopez/Brooks/Morrow/James.


:lol

[stretch]

haywood still lost out there. he does something right and immediately kills it by doing the very next thing wrong.

Yeah, he was pretty bad last night...

But last night was a perfect example of how valuable Odom actually is to the Mavs. His defense, length, and rebounding would have came in really handy, and offensively its not possible for him to be any more useless than Brian Cardinal.

I think if the Mavs had either West or Odom last night, they win that game. Both are going to be really important to the team's success in the playoffs.

[DPG21920]

What's even more funny is if you look at Dallas's roster next year beyond the big 3. NJ also has a sweet pick in this years draft to add; Dallas does not.

[clambake]

Yeah, he was pretty bad last night...

But last night was a perfect example of how valuable Odom actually is to the Mavs. His defense, length, and rebounding would have came in really handy, and offensively its not possible for him to be any more useless than Brian Cardinal.

I think if the Mavs had either West or Odom last night, they win that game. Both are going to be really important to the team's success in the playoffs.

where was odom? getting a wax?

[DPG21920]

Yeah, he was pretty bad last night...

But last night was a perfect example of how valuable Odom actually is to the Mavs. His defense, length, and rebounding would have came in really handy, and offensively its not possible for him to be any more useless than Brian Cardinal.

I think if the Mavs had either West or Odom last night, they win that game. Both are going to be really important to the team's success in the playoffs.

Agree and no matter how you look at odom he has value to the Mavs. If he plays well he really improves an already deep and talented team. He is ap very tradeable despite his recent play due to his upside and contract.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

What's even more funny is if you look at Dallas's roster next year beyond the big 3. NJ also has a sweet pick in this years draft to add; Dallas does not.

:lol

[stretch]

where was odom? getting a wax?

No earthly idea...


Agree and no matter how you look at odom he has value to the Mavs. If he plays well he really improves an already deep and talented team. He is ap very tradeable despite his recent play due to his upside and contract.

Come playoff time when the game becomes more physical and more of a grind, his usefulness to the Mavs will definitely increase. Carter has definitely won fans hearts over during the regular season, but I wouldn't be suprised at all if Odom is the more impactful player in the playoffs. A guy with experience winning multiple championships, who has a nearly unlimited skillset, is always a good thing to have on your roster.

[JamStone]

Carter has a dampier like contract with the second and third year being partially guaranteed. It would only be a couple mill for Cuban to buy the contract out. As for Haywood/Marion, we still have the amnesty clause.

I forgot about the amnesty clause. Good point. And fair point on VC.

So they'd have somewhere in the neighborhood of $26-28 million in cap space and Dirk, Marion (I'd assume they'd amnesty Haywood if they go after Dwight), and Beaubois left to appeal to Deron and Dwight. They'd have to not pick up VC's contract. And they'd likely lose both Brandan Wright and Ian Mahinmi to other teams. Would be interesting how they'd fill the rest of the roster. Very interesting.



People make such a big deal out of Dallas not being able to offer the full max or more money then the Nets can, but didn't all of the big 3 in Miami take less to play together?

Yes they did. But before the point about using the amnesty clause, there was enough money to offer each of them roughly $10 million to start. That's much less than the LeBron, Bosh, and Wade took.

[stretch]

and in regards to the money aspect about Dwight and Deron, I don't know if it was stated or not, but I believe not having any state taxes will come pretty close to balancing things out financially, if they were to take a bit less to be in Dallas. I haven't done the math and have no intention to, but I would assume that the lack of state taxes would come close to negating the contract difference between NJ and Dallas.

IMO, either they hit FA and sign with Dallas, or Dwight gets traded to NJ and they stay there. Orlando would be stupid not to trade him to NJ, but I have a feeling they are going to be stupid, and hope that they can somehow win a championship and convince Dwight to stay.

[DPG21920]

I agree Dallas's chances are better if they both hit FA, but IMO NJ is in the lead both ways for the reasons I explained. Doesn't mean it can't happen just that I find it very unlikely.

[Killakobe81]

Dwight has made it known he prefers NJ. If he hits FA it will be NJ because it will be Dwight/Deron/Lopez/Brooks/Morrow/James + a heck of a first round pick in a deep draft.

If Dwight is traded to NJ they only do so knowing he will sign with them. So either way, especially with Dwight himself saying he prefers NJ, NJ appears to be the more desirable spot. You seem to place way to much emphasis on "world class organizations" and the impact on FA decisions. Spurs are the cream of the crop of world class organizations, have 4 titles & and had a superior player to Dirk and still couldn't land free agents. It's about money first and foremost and then team second. Mavs can't offer both Dwight and Deron full contracts. They can get close but D&D will have to leave money on the table to sign with Dallas; that's not the case in NJ. Also Dallas will be capped out and depleted, NJ will still have good talent and a great draft pick.

If its via trade, the point is moot, Dallas has no real shot then and Orlando likely isnt letting Dwight walk for nothing. They are likely not going to trade him to LA due to perception as well unless it's a no brainer lIke Pau AND Bynum. Dallas should hope for ORL to trade with LA because that gets them at least Deron.

The reality is NJ if Orlando lets him walk, would have Dwill and Brooks could flip Lopez for a better SF or PF and use their draft pick to draft teh other starter. Lets say they draft Barnes and trade Lopez and a pick for ...Josh Smith.

Nets could rock:

PG Dwill
SG Brooks
SF Barnes
PF Smith
C Dwight

That team has potential to be a beast ...

Magic would be dumb to NOT trade Dwight period. If he wants NJ fleece them for the two #1's Brooks and Lopez. I dont like Lopez, but I think Brooks could be a potential all-star (two guard crop is weak) Magic could check out Lopez for half a year and then trade him if they dont like him. Bynum is better but to sit on Dwight makes no sense.

I think Dallas is the favorite for Dwill but Nets would have serious cap room to make moves if Dwight doesnt go there. They would have to make a trade with teams looking to clear cap space ... but Nets have options.

[DPG21920]

I agree Dallas's chances are better if they both hit FA, but IMO NJ is in the lead both ways for the reasons I explained. Doesn't mean it can't happen just that I find it very unlikely.

Just think about it logically: We already know Dwight is pushing for a trade to NJ. If NJ is appealing to him knowing they would gut their team to get him and give up their solid to great draft pick, it would only be more appealing if they kept all their assets. Dallas is depleted regardless.

[lefty]

lolmavs

[clambake]

zero chance of getting both. 50/50 of getting one.

[stretch]

Just think about it logically: We already know Dwight is pushing for a trade to NJ.

I think it's more that he's pushing for a trade, period. He just wants out of Orlando. There are reports that he would prefer NJ (as you keep referring to), but there are also reports that he would prefer Dallas (as would D-Will), so from what has been reported, it doesn't sound like he is heavily leaning one way or the other. But if there is any collusion involved between those two guys (which there almost certainly is), it makes more sense for them to be wanting Dallas, because its no secret whatsoever how much Deron wants to go back home, and Dwight is basically 50/50 based on the wide variety of reports.

[Killakobe81]

I agree Dallas's chances are better if they both hit FA, but IMO NJ is in the lead both ways for the reasons I explained. Doesn't mean it can't happen just that I find it very unlikely.

Just think about it logically: We already know Dwight is pushing for a trade to NJ. If NJ is appealing to him knowing they would gut their team to get him and give up their solid to great draft pick, it would only be more appealing if they kept all their assets. Dallas is depleted regardless.

Im with my ninja, DPG on this one.
Of course the 3D's (Dirk, Dwight, Derron) is POSSIBLE DPG is just pointing out the fact it is NOT probable.

The chance to open Brooklyn with Dwill Brooks and a lottery pick filling out the roster. Heck even if they keep that mutt Kris that is a still solid team with the chance to flip Lopez for something special.

If anything, (I know the Nets are not the Knicks), the rise and hype on Lin has to make Brooklyn even more appealing. The fans are chanting his name and the media is eating up a talented but flawed Knick squad. This nets team would be better.

If i was Otis as much as I hate the thought of sending him to the Lakers I would send him West as long as I get to dump a contract. Heck I may even ask for both bigs and send Ryan anderson as long as they eat turk's contract too.

As a Laker fan I think both is too high ...but I know we cant ring as currently built.

[DPG21920]

As an aside if I'm LA I easily do both Pau/Bynum for Dwight.

[stretch]

As an aside if I'm LA I easily do both Pau/Bynum for Dwight.

No way in hell I do that for Dwight if I'm LA.

Give up the 2nd best center in the league, and a guy who is still arguably a top 5 PF in the league, for the best center in the league and nothing else? That's too steep of a price. They would have to get more back than just Dwight. Considering how the Magic are in no position to lowball, LA would be dumb as hell to offer that. They should firmly offer something along the lines of Bynum (star), Matt Barnes (role player), and a draft pick (filler).

[DPG21920]

I know it seems like a lot but IMO this keeps them about as competitive this year and brightens the future. I'm still of the opinion that even though Bynum is the 2nd best center there is still a sizable gap in impact from him to Dwight.

Dwight got the finals with Rashard or Hedo as his 2nd best player. Give him a 1a in Kobe and watch out.

[Killakobe81]

No way in hell I do that for Dwight if I'm LA.

Give up the 2nd best center in the league, and a guy who is still arguably a top 5 PF in the league, for the best center in the league and nothing else? That's too steep of a price. They would have to get more back than just Dwight. Considering how the Magic are in no position to lowball, LA would be dumb as hell to offer that. They should firmly offer something along the lines of Bynum (star), Matt Barnes (role player), and a draft pick (filler).

I kind of felt like you do at first, but again I dont think we are legit contenders anyway. Last night was big win but proves nothing in grand scheme. Cant rely on fisher to gives us that consistently.

As long as we got Anderson back ...because trading both leaves us no PF ...

I dont think we are necessarily better but how much worse would we be? We downgrade PF to upgrade c. Our shooting improves as would our defense ...

PG Fisher/Blake
SG Kobe/Godlock
SF Barnes/Artest
PF anderson/Turk
C Dwight/Mcroberst

thta is STILL not a title team ...but I would be happy with that you could also sign arenas to replace Godlock

[stretch]

I know it seems like a lot but IMO this keeps them about as competitive this year and brightens the future. I'm still of the opinion that even though Bynum is the 2nd best center there is still a sizable gap in impact from him to Dwight.

Dwight got the finals with Rashard or Hedo as his 2nd best player. Give him a 1a in Kobe and watch out.

Dwight also had a number of role players who complimented him well (3pt shooters in particular). That Orlando team was MUCH deeper than this Lakers squad is. Outside of Bynum, Gasol, and Kobe, the ONLY guy who is even remotely productive consistently is Matt Barnes, which is a testament to how BAD the depth is on this team. I believe it was Hollinger who pointed out that when you take away the top 4 scorers on every team in the league, the Lakers by far have the worst remaining roster in terms of PER.

Granted, Dwight can definitely help make things easier for the role players, but there is only so far you can go with guys like Derek Fisher, Steve Blake, Artest, and Josh McRoberts.

I think the Lakers would be fully able to pull off a trade without giving up both Bynum and Gasol. And IMO, the gap between Bynum and Howard isn't as big as you suggest.

[JamStone]

Dwight made it to the Finals in the Eastern Conference by barely beating a Celtics team without KG and LeBron and the Cavs with at least an equally inept or worse support cast as Dwight had.

Dwight might be much better than Bynum. But Bynum + Gasol is much better than just Dwight. The Lakers are already getting extremely subpar and inconsistent play from two positions, PG and SF. If they trade Gasol, that puts an even bigger onus on Kobe and Dwight to put up huge numbers every single night. Replacing Gasol and Bynum with Dwight, now you're talking about Kobe chucking up 40 times a game and playing 45 minutes a game. For the Lakers, Dwight is not worth trading both Gasol and Bynum.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I'm gonna lol if y'all get jack. Too big a gamble and there's really no guarantee simply because he's from here OR wants to play here. Pretty flimsy to hedge your bet on just that alone.

[DPG21920]

I know it's a bad contract, but it definitely do Pau/Bynum if it was Dwight/Hedo. While his contract sucks he would be an upgrade over Artest.

[Basketballgirl25]

I think Dwight is not completely sold on New Jersey. It would be him, Deron and NOTHING else in Brooklyn. In Dallas it would be him, Deron AND Dirk, an organization that is first-class and has won a championship.

If he's traded, it will be because the Lakers dropped their resistance to dealing Bynum.

If he hits FA, he's a Mav.

If Dwight hits FA, I really see him going to either Nets or Dallas. Nets won't get rid of Brooks or Brook that way.

[Fergie The Florists]

If Dwight hits FA, I really see him going to either Nets or Dallas. Nets won't get rid of Brooks or Brook that way.

Wanna fuck?

[stretch]

I also wonder if at this point, the Nets even want to pull a trade any longer, or if they want to keep what they have, wait until FA, and just hope they can sign him.

[Fergie The Florists]

I also wonder if at this point, the Nets even want to pull a trade any longer, or if they want to keep what they have, wait until FA, and just hope they can sign him.

Shut up you fucking 2 inch pecker gook motherfucker

[DPG21920]

It's possible stretch, depends on how much LA pursues I guess. I'm sure they want to trade because it guarantees Dwight/Deron.

[Killakobe81]

It's possible stretch, depends on how much LA pursues I guess. I'm sure they want to trade because it guarantees Dwight/Deron.

Yep anything else is gamble. Cant bet aginst Cuban he can offer a chance for them to play with Dirk, and we knoe he treats his teams first class all the way. Smarter play is a trade ..I would try to hold on to Brooks but wouldnt let that block a trade ...

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Dwight and Deron are testing free agency regardless. That in itself makes me feel very good about the Mavs chances at landing both. Keep telling yourselves that it's not possible for whatever reason .... i'll put my money on Cuban.

[DPG21920]

Deron is only testing free agency as a formality at this point due to the new CBA. Even if he was 100% sure he was going to stay with the Nets he would still "make it to free agency" because he can sign a larger contract that way.

[JamStone]

It will be interesting to see how the new CBA affects players' decisions in free agency now. Under the new rules, the difference in max contracts now is about $30 million between the home team and another team. And now, the new CBA doesn't allow a sign-and-trade to involve getting the player the home team contract. I think that's why Dwight is pushing for a trade so hard. If he just leaves via free agency, it's 4 years at about $80 million versus 5 years at about $110 million.

[mavsfan1000]

Dwight Howard is going to the Nets. You heard it here first.

[stretch]

Dwight Howard is going to the Nets. You heard it here first.

Wow, what mind-blowingly shocking information you have just provided for us here.

Any more nuggets of unpredictable facts you can provide us with?

[MavDynasty]

Bullsfan has Mary credibility tbh

[mavsfan1000]

Nope. It is predictable and why it is stupid of Cuban to think he has a chance of getting Howard. About as stupid as thinking he could get Shaq in Dallas.

[MavDynasty]

nary*

Lol iphone

[BUMP]

Nope. It is predictable and why it is stupid of Cuban to think he has a chance of getting Howard. About as stupid as thinking he could get Shaq in Dallas.

:lol he could've gotten Shaq in Dallas multiple times

[JamStone]

So I'm doing the math here for Dallas to sign both Deron Williams and Dwight Howard.

Dirk makes roughly $21 million next year. Assuming the Mavs amnesty Haywood and have to keep Marion, Marion makes roughly $8.4 million. Beaubois $2.2 million, Jones $1.3 million both guaranteed. Let's say they drop/waive/let walk everybody else they can to clear as much cap space as they possibly can, even trading away any first round picks they have. That's $32.9 million right there. From what I've read the salary cap will remain right around $58 million even for next season. But for argument sake, let's bump that up to a cool $60 million to give Dallas a better chance. So they'd have roughly $27 million to use to go after both Deron and Dwight, even though in reality it would be closer to $25 million.

That means the Mavs would have roughly $13.5 million to use if they split it right down the middle as the starting salary point to go after each guy. With 4.5% annual increases, that works out to about $57.75 million over 4 years for each guy. That means Deron and Dwight would both be leaving about $52 million on the table to sign with Dallas. That's a lot of cheeseburgers.

I guess Dallas can still try to move either Marion or Haywood so they can still use the amnesty clause on the other, which would then really open up more money, but not sure how likely that is. I'm not an expert capologist by any means and I don't know if my numbers are completely accurate, but I wanted to see how financially viable making BOTH moves was going to be. Deron Williams I can see going to Mavs this summer. Both Deron and Dwight, not really so much.

[mavsfan1000]

:lol he could've gotten Shaq in Dallas multiple times
Except for one thing. Shaq hates Dallas.

[Jodelo]

Except for one thing. Shaq hates Dallas.

Shaq wanted to play in Dallas, but it was when he was done. Before he went to the Suns... Cuban said no!

[dude1394]

You all forget that Texas has two top tier coaches, Carlisle and pop. New jersey has.................Avery!

In Avery I trust to bring us both. Those two guys will rue the day if they go play for the little Napoleon.

[stretch]

does bullsfan1000 ever know what the hell he is talking about?

i think not

[Basketballgirl25]

You all forget that Texas has two top tier coaches, Carlisle and pop. New jersey has.................Avery!

In Avery I trust to bring us both. Those two guys will rue the day if they go play for the little Napoleon.

Avery won't bring you both. Howard will stay in Orlando and Deron will join him there I mean Ryan Anderson is there and that would be a heck of a team, much better then Deron, Dirk and Howard:toast:toast:toast

[endrity]

So I'm doing the math here for Dallas to sign both Deron Williams and Dwight Howard.

Dirk makes roughly $21 million next year. Assuming the Mavs amnesty Haywood and have to keep Marion, Marion makes roughly $8.4 million. Beaubois $2.2 million, Jones $1.3 million both guaranteed. Let's say they drop/waive/let walk everybody else they can to clear as much cap space as they possibly can, even trading away any first round picks they have. That's $32.9 million right there. From what I've read the salary cap will remain right around $58 million even for next season. But for argument sake, let's bump that up to a cool $60 million to give Dallas a better chance. So they'd have roughly $27 million to use to go after both Deron and Dwight, even though in reality it would be closer to $25 million.

That means the Mavs would have roughly $13.5 million to use if they split it right down the middle as the starting salary point to go after each guy. With 4.5% annual increases, that works out to about $57.75 million over 4 years for each guy. That means Deron and Dwight would both be leaving about $52 million on the table to sign with Dallas. That's a lot of cheeseburgers.

I guess Dallas can still try to move either Marion or Haywood so they can still use the amnesty clause on the other, which would then really open up more money, but not sure how likely that is. I'm not an expert capologist by any means and I don't know if my numbers are completely accurate, but I wanted to see how financially viable making BOTH moves was going to be. Deron Williams I can see going to Mavs this summer. Both Deron and Dwight, not really so much.

Well no it's not possible without Marion being released as well somehow. Plus if those two come I think they will ask Dirk to take a paycut, and probably he would do it as well just like the three stars in Miami did. So that sends us to about 16 per year as starting point. That's a lot better.

[JamStone]

Well no it's not possible without Marion being released as well somehow. Plus if those two come I think they will ask Dirk to take a paycut, and probably he would do it as well just like the three stars in Miami did. So that sends us to about 16 per year as starting point. That's a lot better.

Pretty sure Marion's salary is guaranteed next season, or are you suggesting a team would actually trade for Marion? I don't see it. And at least under the last CBA, restructuring contracts was not allowed. Is there a change in this new CBA that allows that? Dirk's contract runs through 2014, and I don't believe there are any opt-outs. I think it's fully guaranteed. So I don't see how Dirk takes a paycut.

[DPG21920]

Pretty sure Marion's salary is guaranteed next season, or are you suggesting a team would actually trade for Marion? I don't see it. And at least under the last CBA, restructuring contracts was not allowed. Is there a change in this new CBA that allows that? Dirk's contract runs through 2014, and I don't believe there are any opt-outs. I think it's fully guaranteed. So I don't see how Dirk takes a paycut.

Jam is correct here on both accounts which is why I originally stated what I did. Dirk can't restructure his deal. As things stand Dallas cannot offer D&D the money NJ can. Dallas would have to move Marion for sure to even approach that and it's not easy despite how good he's playing and he's fully guaranteed. I think if they really wanted to they could dump Marion though.

Thats why I said NJ easily has the edge via trade and while Dallas's chances go up if they hit FA, NJ still has the edge. It's not apples to apples in FA right now for NJ and DAL. Even if it was financially, Dallas would be gutted while NJ would not.

[m>s]

amnesty the shit out of contract whore and we'll only have two big contracts (marion & dirk) come the end of season, i think there'll be enough room for two max contracts starting somewhere 13-15 m/yr for the first season. with Kidd/JET resigned for vet min, we FUCKING STACKED!!!

TRIPLE D FUCKING DYNASTY, MUTHAFUCKERS!!!

[irishock]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're not getting either DH12 or Deron Williams. It's blatantly obvious the two will team up in Brooklyn either via trade or FA signing. Dwight doesn't give two shits about leaving millions on the table. His endorsement contracts outweighs his NBA contract .

Dallas should pursue maybe Nash or go into rebuild mode with Dirk declining

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Cuban got this shit in the bag. Not worried at all

[pass1st]

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=7739

[DPG21920]

:)


Getting Deron Williams, could potentially add another 2-3 years of effective play to Dirk's career. His ability to run the pick and roll/pop, and score on his own (unlike Kidd) will create all kinds of open looks for Dirk, and he will be able to get shots like he did back when he played with Nash.




Well, we certainly hope that will come true... I'm pretty confident in D-Will coming here. Dwight I have no idea what to expect though...


I think if Deron comes here, Dwight probably will too. Going to play with your friends is all the rage these days ever since the homo trio did it, now everyone else is forced to counter if they want to win.


Something of note for Mav fans


So basically you were wrong again.


I have said since the beginning that Dallas's only real shot at Deron/Dwight was if they reach FA. I still maintain they should have resigned Tyson, made another run & then salary dumped him in the off season.

Even if they get to FA I don't agree Dallas is a favorite like the writer said. If they hit FA Dallas has a decent shot but NJ will have more money to offer, better young talent because they didn't have to trade (Brook Lopez, Marshon Brooks, a great shooter in Morrow, Damion James...) and what appears to be a top flight pick in a deep draft.

If NJ is attractive to Dwight after a trade is done like he said, it has to be even more attractive option if they don't gut the team to get him.

Dallas definitely has a shot at both if they make it to FA, but as the article states, it doesn't seem likely Orlando lets him walk for nothing.


^It's still more of a possibility than you were initially willing to admit. Where's mono at he knows.

Another intersting thread about the thinking now that we have seen things unfold.

[mavs>spurs]

if dwight wasn't an idiot and opted in they'd both be in dallas

[DPG21920]

Deron is only testing free agency as a formality at this point due to the new CBA. Even if he was 100% sure he was going to stay with the Nets he would still "make it to free agency" because he can sign a larger contract that way.


Jam is correct here on both accounts which is why I originally stated what I did. Dirk can't restructure his deal. As things stand Dallas cannot offer D&D the money NJ can. Dallas would have to move Marion for sure to even approach that and it's not easy despite how good he's playing and he's fully guaranteed. I think if they really wanted to they could dump Marion though.

Thats why I said NJ easily has the edge via trade and while Dallas's chances go up if they hit FA, NJ still has the edge. It's not apples to apples in FA right now for NJ and DAL. Even if it was financially, Dallas would be gutted while NJ would not.

[DPG21920]

if dwight wasn't an idiot and opted in they'd both be in dallas

So you were wrong again

[tesseractive]

if dwight wasn't an idiot and opted in they'd both be in dallas

Or Brooklyn. Deron never seemed that anxious to move.

[mavs>spurs]

if dwight wasn't an idiot and opted back in they'd both be in dallas

as it looked like they weren't going to get to play together either way, and dallas was looking shitty at the time, deron chose NJ which is understandable.

[mavs>spurs]

also in those quotes i didn't say he would for sure be in dallas, i said it was a possibility.

and it was a possibility, it just didn't happen because dwight is an idiot.

[DPG21920]

Ok - but interesting to look back at all the info floating around and what actually happened. It's all well and good to tell people they are wrong when getting excited, but when the smoke clears it's really been the same story - money usually wins out.

[Clipper Nation]

No, if Dwight didn't opt in, he and Deron would be in Brooklyn right now.....

[DPG21920]

also in those quotes i didn't say he would for sure be in dallas, i said it was a possibility.

and it was a possibility, it just didn't happen because dwight is an idiot.

So how was I wrong back then like you said and I guess you set yourself up to cover all of your basis so you couldn't be wrong (even though you claimed victory towards me back then) :rolleyes

[DPG21920]

^It's still more of a possibility than you were initially willing to admit. Where's mono at he knows.

Really was never a realistic possibility due to the things we spoke about (but you ignored).

[mavs>spurs]

because you were acting like it wasn't a remote possibility and it was, it just didn't work out

any player would love to play for Cuban

[mavs>spurs]

Really was never a realistic possibility due to the things we spoke about (but you ignored).

if dwight just opts out like he has half a brain, they are both free to sign where they choose

[DPG21920]

1. Dallas can offer both Dwight and Dwill max FA contracts if they work things right. They obviously couldn't offer Dwill as much as NJ can, but they can offer him as much as any other team.
2. Dirk+Dwight+Dwill is enough talent.
3. :wow a Cuban-type owner? I wish Dallas had one of does!


NJ has more to offer in a trade than Dallas. While no superstars Lopez isn't crap and morrow & brooks are appealing young players. Their ability to absorb bad contracts helps to (although Dallas has some of that aspect too).

I'm already on record saying I think he will be traded to the Nets. I also think NJ is ahead of Dallas in FA.

IMO if Dwight is traded its: NJ/LA/DAL
If he hits FA: NJ/DAl


Dwight has made it known he prefers NJ. If he hits FA it will be NJ because it will be Dwight/Deron/Lopez/Brooks/Morrow/James + a heck of a first round pick in a deep draft.

If Dwight is traded to NJ they only do so knowing he will sign with them. So either way, especially with Dwight himself saying he prefers NJ, NJ appears to be the more desirable spot. You seem to place way to much emphasis on "world class organizations" and the impact on FA decisions. Spurs are the cream of the crop of world class organizations, have 4 titles & and had a superior player to Dirk and still couldn't land free agents. It's about money first and foremost and then team second. Mavs can't offer both Dwight and Deron full contracts. They can get close but D&D will have to leave money on the table to sign with Dallas; that's not the case in NJ. Also Dallas will be capped out and depleted, NJ will still have good talent and a great draft pick.

If its via trade, the point is moot, Dallas has no real shot then and Orlando likely isnt letting Dwight walk for nothing. They are likely not going to trade him to LA due to perception as well unless it's a no brainer lIke Pau AND Bynum. Dallas should hope for ORL to trade with LA because that gets them at least Deron.

:lol ETO not knowing about Dallas's ability to offer contracts. Under no circumstances could Dallas offer both Dwight/Deron max contracts

[DPG21920]

if dwight just opts out like he has half a brain, they are both free to sign where they choose

That doesn't make it likely like you saidy or me wrong (like you also said). I explained why and now you are trying to set yourself up so that no matter what you aren't wrong :rolleyes

[DPG21920]

because you were acting like it wasn't a remote possibility and it was, it just didn't work out

any player would love to play for Cuban

It really wasn't a possibility to get both in the real world. Turned out I was correct (along with other level headed posters who took a step back to assess the reality of the situation).

[mavs>spurs]

That doesn't make it likely like you saidy or me wrong (like you also said). I explained why and now you are trying to set yourself up so that no matter what you aren't wrong :rolleyes

i said it was a possibility

[DPG21920]

You said I was wrong too.

[mavs>spurs]

for acting like it wasn't even a remote possibility yes. dwight opting in then wanting back out was the retardedness that no one saw coming. it made things difficult.

[DPG21920]

So you still contend I was wrong and you weren't?

[DPG21920]

You keep making stuff up - Even if Dwight didn't opt in, it wasn't likely at all he ends up with Dallas with Deron. At all. You are just making that up.

[mavs>spurs]

So you still contend I was wrong and you weren't?

Yes because you were acting like it wasn't even a remote possibility and I felt it was up until Dwight acted like an idiot and opted back in. The two had been alluding to teaming up in Dallas for some time now, Deron is from here, and they still have Dirk. The biggest kicker of all is that any player would want to play for an owner like Cuban.

Deron himself even said that even WITHOUT dwight, he was leaning towards dallas until the meeting where cuban didn't even show up. He said that is when he decided to stay in New Jersey. So yes I don't think it's ridiculous to say that there was a solid possibility of them teaming up in Dallas. I never said it would for sure happen, I didn't take anywhere near that solid of a stance. I said it could happen. And I believe there was a strong chance it does of Dwight wasn't such a dumb monkey. It's just my opinion you don't have to agree.

[DPG21920]

:lol ok

[Lincoln]

Yeah there was a radio interview where deron said he was leaning Dallas before the meeting and was disappointed when Mark didn't show up. I guess we really fucked up at that meeting for him to change his mind. The joe Johnson trade didn't help our chances either

[monosylab1k]

Yeah that interview he said he was planning on choosing Dallas, then the Cuban no-show plus Brooklyn getting Joe Johnson and promising to make a run at Dwight Howard basically changed his mind.

lol DPG was right for the wrong reasons, Mavs fans were wrong for the right reasons.

[DPG21920]

Yeah that interview he said he was planning on choosing Dallas, then the Cuban no-show plus Brooklyn getting Joe Johnson and promising to make a run at Dwight Howard basically changed his mind.

lol DPG was right for the wrong reasons, Mavs fans were wrong for the right reasons.

No - even if they get Deron - getting Dwight too is not a realistic possibility. :lol Saying Deron was leaning towards Dallas but the Cuban no show played a role.

1) If Cuban really thought it was possible to get Deron/Dwight - you don't think he would have been there if he placed importance on it?

2) I'm sure the fact NJ could offer him 100M and Dallas could offer him ~75M had no bearing on the choice :rolleyes

Intersting too look back at who said what and how it unfolded. Even more interesting to see these comments :lol

[Lincoln]

Maybe he is just playing with the media then but he actually said he was "leaning towards Dallas prior to the meeting" and that he didn't like how Cuban was a no show. Who knows what happens of Cuban does show up instead of filmin his stupid ass show?

It's all a moot point now though, we should be looking forward to OJ Mayo and how he plays compared to Danny Green

[DPG21920]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8137116/deron-williams-said-trade-joe-johnson-helped-choose-brooklyn-nets

This is a transcript of the interview. Says absolutely nothing about Cuban. Mentions Joe Johnson, but I guess Mav fan wasn't wrong about wanting to play with Dirk/for Cuban if he choose Joe F*cking Johnson. Oh yea, that boat load of extra money also played a role.

[DPG21920]

Maybe he is just playing with the media then but he actually said he was "leaning towards Dallas prior to the meeting" and that he didn't like how Cuban was a no show. Who knows what happens of Cuban does show up instead of filmin his stupid ass show?

It's all a moot point now though, we should be looking forward to OJ Mayo and how he plays compared to Danny Green

You know the difference in this and that? I have a chance to be right :lol

[DPG21920]

Point is, Mav fan didnt have an understanding of the rules/reality. They kept basing their premise off the fact Dallas could offer "both Dwight and Deron max contracts". That was never possible and poked a giant hole in that theory.

[DPG21920]

zero chance of getting both. 50/50 of getting one.


Im with my ninja, DPG on this one.
Of course the 3D's (Dirk, Dwight, Derron) is POSSIBLE DPG is just pointing out the fact it is NOT probable.

The chance to open Brooklyn with Dwill Brooks and a lottery pick filling out the roster. Heck even if they keep that mutt Kris that is a still solid team with the chance to flip Lopez for something special.

If anything, (I know the Nets are not the Knicks), the rise and hype on Lin has to make Brooklyn even more appealing. The fans are chanting his name and the media is eating up a talented but flawed Knick squad. This nets team would be better.

If i was Otis as much as I hate the thought of sending him to the Lakers I would send him West as long as I get to dump a contract. Heck I may even ask for both bigs and send Ryan anderson as long as they eat turk's contract too.

As a Laker fan I think both is too high ...but I know we cant ring as currently built.

They got it.

[DPG21920]

As the season goes on, I am sure the Dwight Howard saga will be very interesting to the Mavs. They have to be praying he truly hits FA (not gets traded to a team he agrees to resign with, goes to FA just as a formality...).

Looking back at some of the comments, it's not always easy to see the big picture, especially when you don't know all the details, so it's hard to imagine being wrong in the moment (Cuban with his plan and his thinking before this all played out). What is strange is seeing you are wrong and not admitting it like some posters/GM's, but luckily Cubes is smarter and did not panic.

[DPG21920]

[/I]Tyson_Chandler;5665542]first intelligent thing you've posted, well said

obviously people are going to hate and be in denial because of the opportunity we have in front of us, but I'd say deron/dwight to dallas is as likely a scenario as any.


because you were acting like it wasn't a remote possibility and it was, it just didn't work out

any player would love to play for Cuban

Does anyone think Deron/Dwight to Dallas was just as likely. I don't see it the same way so I was wondering what other smart posters thought.

Even though Deron wouldn't love to play for Cuban, considering he had his chance, do other smart posters think any player would love to play for Cuban because I don't see it that way.

[DPG21920]

I mean, Deron would have loved to play for Cuban (and with Dirk) even though he choose not to. Joe Johnson is very appealing.

[Latarian Milton]

not sure about the personal charm of cuban but dallas would be a more favorable choice if they could offer him equal amount of money, no state tax if he played for dallas, for example. mavs just got screwed by the new CBA. dudes should've realized it was extremely difficult to lure big-name FAs to join your team and leave 30m on the table tbh

[DPG21920]

Oh, thanks Latarian. So you are saying that those posters acting like it was likely and saying the Mavs could offer both Deron and Dwight max contracts really didn't know what they were talking about?

That's a good point - knowing the CBA and how it works is a great way to go about givng a basketball opinion.

[irishock]

Yeah there was a radio interview where deron said he was leaning Dallas before the meeting and was disappointed when Mark didn't show up. I guess we really fucked up at that meeting for him to change his mind. The joe Johnson trade didn't help our chances either

$26 mil on the table.