Game Thoughts: Spurs Scrimmage

[timvp]

"Go Spurs Go time?"

That's what I heard about once a week during the lockout. timvp jr would hand me the remote and ask his question with hopes of me changing the channel so he could watch a Spurs game. "Bonner time, pleeeease," he'd beg.

I've already forgiven him for his unfortunate choice of favorite player. Really, I was just impressed that a three-year-old still remembered the Spurs even existed after such a long stretch with no basketball.

After answering about 1,000 Matt Bonner related questions as we watched the first preseason game ("Bonner jump? Bonner fall down? Bonner win? Bonner high five?"), I took timvp jr to the Spurs scrimmage tonight so he could see the AT&T Center for the first time.

For the entire first quarter, he was silent. He just looked around trying to absorb it all -- there weren't even any Bonner question. By the second quarter, his attention turned to the Coyote. timvp jr kept one eye on the Coyote at all times. Whenever there was a pause in action, he'd stand up in his chair to find him.

"Daddy, I scared," he told me in the fourth quarter.

"Why you scared?"

"Monster robot dog," he said, pointing to the Coyote.

I laughed … but to me that was brilliant. Monster robot dog. I couldn't come up with a better description if I tried.

Anyways, here's my attempt to describe what I saw during the scrimmage:

-Tim Duncan looked damn good early on. It's obvious he spent the extended offseason playing a lot of basketball. Physically, he looks fit and relatively quick; Duncan even threw down a vicious dunk over Tiago Splitter. His outside jumper was money and his ballhandling was in midseason form. Duncan badly outplayed Splitter to begin the game on both ends. However, as the game wore on, Duncan was gassed. By the fourth, he spent most of his time on the court tugging on his shorts. Considering that each side only had a few subs and there were hardly any timeouts, it's not too surprising that he'd get winded. After seeing Duncan in this scrimmage, I'm confident he'll come out of the gates playing really good basketball this season.

-Manu Ginobili, like Duncan, was a terror early but fizzled as the game progressed. In fact, he was even more obviously gassed than Duncan down the stretch. But early on, Ginobili looked good. He hit a few catch-and-shoot jumpers and created well off the dribble. Physically, it was a good sign that he elevated for a pair of dunks during the scrimmage. He's not putting too much effort into defense yet but overall Ginobili should be good to go come Dec. 26.

-To begin the game, Tony Parker was playing the role of facilitator. He wasn't even looking at the basket -- and actually played the role quite well. He broke down the defense repeatedly and found open players time and time again. Throughout the game, his quickness to the rim was impressive. He even seemed to get more lift than usual on his jumpers. But like the other two members of the Big Three, Parker was running on empty heading into the final stanza. (I also noticed that he seemed to be favoring his right elbow a bit ... hopefully that was my imagination.)

-If Richard Jefferson played with any less enthusiasm he would have been pronounced dead. He spent his time jogging up and down the court, rarely doing anything in the paint. The fans gave RJ a nice ovation and he responded by sleepwalking. The bright spot was that his jumper was pure, especially when he was left open and had time to set his feet. Let's hope that Jefferson is just bored with preseason. The alternatives would lower his value to the team even more.

-I'm not even sure what to say about DeJuan Blair's defense or, more specifically, lack thereof. Matt Bonner drained three-pointer after three-pointer (Bonner Time!) as Blair repeatedly closed out late. Getting eaten alive by Luis Scola is one thing, but to turn Bonner into the second coming of Larry Bird is another. On offense, Blair didn't do anything out of the ordinary. I liked his passing -- but honestly, his defense was so bad that he doesn't deserve any type of praise until he starts showing some effort on that end of the court.

-I can't really blame Tiago Splitter for getting dominated by Duncan early. Duncan was on his game and Splitter didn't have much of a chance. But to the Brazilian's credit, he got much better -- especially in the second half. On offense, he showed a good amount of patience in the post and his plus passing skills were on display. Defensively, after halftime he did a much better job of protecting the rim. Even during his struggles, Splitter's high basketball IQ was impressive throughout.

-For most of the game, Matt Bonner was pretty darn good. He nailed a couple fistfuls of threes and was even creating for his team off the dribble. On defense, he battled on the boards and pretty much neutralized Blair throughout. For the reserves, who actually ended up winning this scrimmage in overtime, Bonner was the best player on the team. Late in the game, Bonner lost a few balls on the dribble … but overall Bonner was really good. (*cue the groans*)

-Unfortunately, we didn't really get a good look at Kawhi Leonard. On defense, he spent most of his time defending the statue formerly known as Richard Jeferson -- so there wasn't much to critique. Offensively, Leonard spent most of his time watching TJ Ford attempt to dribble the air out of the basketball. But during the glimpses of action when he was involved, Leonard showed some positives. He missed all his shots in the first half but came out firing in the third quarter and drained a threesome of three-pointers. They were of the catch-and-shoot variety, with one being off of a down-screen. For a guy who's not known as a shooter, it was really good to see. On defense, Leonard's quick feet, length and awareness of his responsibilities had me dreaming of the possibilities. The tools are definitely there for him to become a really good defender. On the other hand, I'm a bit worried about his offensive repertoire. He appears to be limited in just about every aspect on that end. He's not very good at getting to the basket, he doesn't finish well and his jumper off the dribble is ugly. I'd also like to see him run the court a lot harder. All in all, despite a few warts, Leonard looks like a good prospect.

-For a guy who is shooting about 20% in his first two outings this season, I've been impressed. James Anderson moves with conviction on the offensive end. He has no hesitation when shooting open jumpers and has a few really good moves to get off quality shots on the move. However, what I like the most about his offensive game is his ability to run the pick-and-roll. He uses the screen well and makes good decisions. I'm already hoping that Pop gives him plenty of chances to make plays this coming season. Athletically, Anderson also looked really good. He has shed most of the baby fat he had in college and during his rookie season. Known as a B athlete, Anderson had a flying dunk in transition that surprised me. He definitely has things to work on (ball control in a crowd, finishing at the basket and consistent focus on defense being his main three weaknesses) but Anderson is quickly making me a believer.

-Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. TJ Ford really needs to start figuring out that he's not helping the team by needlessly dribbling so much. Since he's not much of a scoring threat anymore, the defense just sits back and watches him dribble. It does nothing other than waste time. When Ford actually pushes the pace and makes a quick decision, he's still good. His court vision is above average, as is his speed. If he can get over the habit of over-dribbling, he could become a quality backup point guard. If not, he'll probably end up losing his job before Valentine's Day.

-Cory Joseph and Danny Green didn't do much to distinguish themselves. Joseph had a few good passes, Green knocked down a few jumpers … and that was about it. Green translates into a low-mistake offensive sniper and a high-energy defender, however the problem is that he has a pedestrian ceiling -- especially compared to Leonard and Anderson. Joseph passes the eyeball test as being a potential NBA prospect, which is definitely good news, but it's apparent he has no idea what he's supposed to do at either end. If he can learn fast with the Toros and Ford doesn't learn to stop dribbling, I could see a scenario in which Joseph could be thrown into the fire this season -- although it's unlikely.

-Gani Lawal and Frank Hassell are similar. Both are 6-foot-9 power forwards with broad shoulders and muscular builds. Neither can do much more than try to ram home finishes around the basket. Lawal is a bit more talented so if it comes down to these two for a roster spot, expect Lawal to get the nod. Even though he suffered a major knee injury last season, he looked healthy to me. Splitter would also agree, as Lawal hammered a powerful dunk over him. (Bonner introduced Lawal by saying he's a guy who has been dunking on him a lot during training camp. Seeing how hard he attacks the rim, I believe it. He goes up to dunk like he's wanting to hurt you.)

-Somebody told Luke Zeller that he's a three-point shooter. That person is a liar. Zeller was about 0-for-5 from deep and none of the shots were close. It's safe to say he's the next player to get waived. Then again, he's a 6-foot-11 forward who likes to bomb three-pointers and not play defense, so he may have very well helped his cause during the scrimmage. I've given up trying to figure out what this front office wants.

[Mr. Body]

If you sign a player, a veteran player who has been in the league doing the same thing everywhere he's gone -- let's say, dominate the ball and dribble all over the fucking place and stalling an offense -- he has to expect any team signing him will want him to do the same thing. Or else why sign him?

Ergo, TJ Ford.

[timtonymanu]

So basically the two deadweights, RJ and Blair, played like shit again. The only reason why I prefer Blair over Bonner is because he's cheap. Otherwise, Blair is a worse player than Bonner.

[objective]

If he can get over the habit of over-dribbling, he could become a quality backup point guard. If not, he'll probably end up losing his job before Valentine's Day.


an underperforming experienced vet losing his job under Pop?

That wouldn't be fair to the team.

Not happening. :lol

back to the game

Leonard and Anderson showed again why they should play as much as possible.

Jefferson showed why he should never play, ever.

Bonner, knowing it was the opposite of the playoffs, couldn't miss. Good for him. Bad for us.

[DesignatedT]

Thanks for the write up.

Anderson is going to be a big key for us if we want to be successful this season.

Bonner is Bonner and Blair is even worse than Matt just without the hate. Really need another big man.

[dylankerouac]

Thanks for the write-up. Always enjoyable.

[ElNono]

Thanks for the scoop. I only managed to watch the last 10 mins or so

[Borosai]

I think Bonner realizes that he's going to have to lead this team to its fifth championship. He knows what's up.

[RodNIc91]

Nice to hear you had a nice time with your son timvp! Thanx for the writeup

[ace3g]

Kawhi Leonard - Open Scrimmage Interview
http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/111219_leonard

Pop - Open Scrimmage Interview
http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/111219_pop

Manu Ginobili - Open Scrimmage Interview
http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/111219_ginobili

[analyzed]

With our current line-up , Leonard seems to be the only player who has the length and quikness to defend Dirk or Durant, two of our biggest conference rivals. That's how critical Kawhi is to our playoff chances

[Nathan89]

Kawhi Leonard - Open Scrimmage Interview
http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/111219_leonard

Pop - Open Scrimmage Interview
http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/111219_pop

Manu Ginobili - Open Scrimmage Interview
http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/111219_ginobili

Thanks for posting

Love the relationship that former players continue to have with the organization. "Five-OOOOoo"

[Tuddy]

Hey timvp do you think Leonard's shot spotting up looks better (more arc) than off the dribble when he rushes it more?

[jjktkk]

With our current line-up , Leonard seems to be the only player who has the length and quikness to defend Dirk or Durant, two of our biggest conference rivals. That's how critical Kawhi is to our playoff chances

Thats putting an awful lot of pressure on a rook, but I think that was one of the reasons they traded up to get Leanard.

[temujin]

I conclude that there is something disturbingly attractive in Bonner and sons.
Mine definitely shows up, come clutch game time, yet he likes Bonner.

[callo1]

I was at the scrimmage tonight and here is my take:

As mentioned, Duncan started out very nice, he looked quick, in shape and ready to have a quick start to the season provided that his minutes are limited. Timmy's endurance isn't there yet, and his legs got heavy quickly as a result.

Manu started off good, but like TD, he isn't in game shape yet, and his shot was hampered by tired legs.

Kawhi...hmm...really hard to make an overall judgement of his game now. Kawhi's shot is flat, not like the sports science espn clip on youtube. Defensively Kawhi looked good, but he also semed lost at times, no doubt that he will improve once he has the system down, as he has all of the physical tools to excel on defense.

I was impressed with Anderson, he has good explosion and a quick second jump. I expect good things from JA this year.

After Anderson, I would have to say that I was most impressed with Danny Green. Green looks far better than average defensively, and he seems to fit in, not allowing the situation to be too big for him...confident. I would really like to see him stick, and continue to improve. I really believe he can become a solid defender for the Spurs, while not being a liability on offense.

Parker looked good, he had a hesitation dribble with his typical burst of speed which propelled him by his defender and to the rack with ease.

Bonner is Bonner, he made all of the shots that he typically makes when there is no pressure, shots that will vanish as soon as the playoffs start.

Jefferson...wow, I mean, I don't know what to say. After getting a warm welcome from the crowd he went out there and pretty much gave no effort. His 3pt shot looked good, but he showed no explosion or desire to even be out there. Honestly, I really expected (It was a foolish notion) he would have a sense of pride and want to show the crowd he has something to offer.

Blair looked over matched, slow, and uncoordinated. Had TD not spoon fed him with a few nice passes, it would have been even worse.

Tiago started off awkward, and didn't really look like he was ready to be a starter. When Timmy wasn't on him, he seemed to have more confidence and do bertter, but he remains somewhat of an enigma. I want to believe that he can and will step up given minutes, but I don't see any agression in his game.

TJ did dribble alot, but he also showed some decent quickness. I think he will come along and contribute, but he isn't there yet.

IF the starting five are TD, Manu, TP, Tiago and Anderson, I think they can match up decent with most of the west, but I don't know how the bench will even begin to hold up without a decent big on the floor. I can see Kawhi, Neal and Joseph (or maybe even Ford) come in and contribute, but after that it is a mess.

[Spurs Brazil]

I hope Jefferson turns into 2003 Smith and JA or Leonard turn into 2003 Jax

Jefferson looked dead there. He didn't even try. I'd love to see one of the kids starting in 8-10 games.

And Blair worry me big time. Every season seems he lost energy and become a worst defender. And with his low iQ things get even worst

[Obstructed_View]

I guess Blair's desire to prove everyone wrong for passing on him disappeared after the Rookie Challenge.

[arles]

Open Scrimmage Highlights
http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/2011/12/19/20111219_spurs_open_practice.nba/index.html

That spin-dunk was vicious.

[DPG21920]

Is no one else a little disappointed that the Spurs traded Hill to move up for their highest draft pick since Duncan and that Kawhi doesn't look more impressive? Maybe it's because I desperately wanted him to be great so the Spurs had a shot at regaining their defensive prowess, but for such a big move from the Spurs, I was expecting more of an impact guy immediately. As of now, Leonard has more downside than I initially gave credence. Not that he'll be a bust, but that there is more potential for that than I imagined.

[monkeypunk]

I think it's a little early to judge Leonard. Hill missed like 20 out of 21 shots during his rookie preseason and he was just fine.

[Interrohater]

Open Scrimmage Highlights
http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/2011/12/19/20111219_spurs_open_practice.nba/index.html

That spin-dunk was vicious.
Who was that? I'm watching it at work and I have no sound so I couldn't hear if anybody said anything. Was that Lawal?

[SenorSpur]

Thanks for the write-up.

Between RJ, Bonner and Blair, the amount of dead weight on this roster, that will be consuming major minutes is alarming.

[SenorSpur]

Who was that? I'm watching it at work and I have no sound so I couldn't hear if anybody said anything. Was that Lawal?

It sure looked like Lawal to me. I love power players and the Spurs roster is devoid of such players. I hope this kid sticks.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol the kid who got rjs autograph...seriously why???

[SenorSpur]

"Go Spurs Go time?"
-Somebody told Luke Zeller that he's a three-point shooter. That person is a liar. Zeller was about 0-for-5 from deep and none of the shots were close. It's safe to say he's the next player to get waived. Then again, he's a 6-foot-11 forward who likes to bomb three-pointers and not play defense, so he may have very well helped his cause during the scrimmage. I've given up trying to figure out what this front office wants.
You know that Pop has evolved his philosophy in that now he requires ALL his bigs to be prolific 3-pt shooters. If Duncan had helped architect 4 titles, Pop probably would've shipped his ass outta here because he can't step back beyond the arc and bomb away. I hope Ryan Richards is practicing his downtown shots.

[iminol]

any box-score (point leaders)?

How Gani Lawal looked like on the floor? Should Spurs sign him?

[GSH]

I was watching the live feed. After the game, some of the players were in the crowd signing autographs. I'm not certain, but I could swear that DeJuan Blair ate a small child in the second row. Okay, maybe not. It just looks like he didn't go two hours without a meal all summer.

The old guys weren't the only ones looking gassed by the end. It looked like as a joke someone finally did "put a lid on the basket". Lots of short-arming going on in the last few minutes. Lots of conditioning to be done in just 6 days' time.

[ChumpDumper]

You know that Pop has evolved his philosophy in that now he requires ALL his bigs to be prolific 3-pt shooters.Zeller is like 6-15 from the arc for the Toros. In his case it's the only thing he can do on a basketball court.

[BanditHiro]

what was RJ doing on the Black team?

[SenorSpur]

Zeller is like 6-15 from the arc for the Toros. In his case it's the only thing he can do on a basketball court.

Wow. I guess things like rebounding, blocking shots and interior defense are a lost art for some of the incoming bigs.

[Libri]

Wow. I guess things like rebounding, blocking shots and interior defense are a lost art for some of the incoming bigs.

There aren't many who like to do the dirty work.

[ChumpDumper]

Wow. I guess things like rebounding, blocking shots and interior defense are a lost art for some of the incoming bigs.He's not incoming.

[Bill_Brasky]

Is no one else a little disappointed that the Spurs traded Hill to move up for their highest draft pick since Duncan and that Kawhi doesn't look more impressive? Maybe it's because I desperately wanted him to be great so the Spurs had a shot at regaining their defensive prowess, but for such a big move from the Spurs, I was expecting more of an impact guy immediately. As of now, Leonard has more downside than I initially gave credence. Not that he'll be a bust, but that there is more potential for that than I imagined.

I get the feeling that JA is gonna make us forget about Hill pretty quickly.

[MannyIsGod]

Is no one else a little disappointed that the Spurs traded Hill to move up for their highest draft pick since Duncan and that Kawhi doesn't look more impressive? Maybe it's because I desperately wanted him to be great so the Spurs had a shot at regaining their defensive prowess, but for such a big move from the Spurs, I was expecting more of an impact guy immediately. As of now, Leonard has more downside than I initially gave credence. Not that he'll be a bust, but that there is more potential for that than I imagined.

Really wasn't a big move.

[spursince#99]

James Anderson

[Fireball]

I can't really blame Tiago Splitter for getting dominated by Duncan early. Duncan was on his game and Splitter didn't have much of a chance. But to the Brazilian's credit, he got much better -- especially in the second half. On offense, he showed a good amount of patience in the post and his plus passing skills were on display. Defensively, after halftime he did a much better job of protecting the rim. Even during his struggles, Splitter's high basketball IQ was impressive throughout.

Tiago really did not stand a chance, but he was able to draw (I guess) 3 fouls from Timmy. Splitter is really good at that. But on the other hand I also think some of Timmys fouls were pretty cheap - don't think he would have done that in a real game.

[dbestpro]

RJ and Blair should be made to play one on one for about 8 hours every day until they get a little fire for the game.

[Fireball]

I get the feeling that JA is gonna make us forget about Hill pretty quickly.

That might be the case, but we could have had Anderson and Hill on the team. Hopefully it will be Kawhi who will make us forget about George ...

[GSH]

Is no one else a little disappointed that the Spurs traded Hill to move up for their highest draft pick since Duncan and that Kawhi doesn't look more impressive? Maybe it's because I desperately wanted him to be great so the Spurs had a shot at regaining their defensive prowess, but for such a big move from the Spurs, I was expecting more of an impact guy immediately. As of now, Leonard has more downside than I initially gave credence. Not that he'll be a bust, but that there is more potential for that than I imagined.


I'm up on the ledge with you as far as the Spurs go. But to be fair, nobody (that I remember) was convinced that Hill would be any good after only one pre-season game. Mostly people were screaming about the other good players who were left when the Spurs drafted him. Leonard has some great athletic ability. It's going to be hard for him to match Hill's attitude, or willingness to play D, but it's way too early to tell.

Still, we knew what we had with Hill - probably the biggest bright spot for the future. It's hard seeing that replaced with an unknown quantity. If Leonard doesn't live up to what Hill does in Indy, it's going to be a bitter pill to swallow.

[DPG21920]

Really wasn't a big move.

Disagree.

My statement wasn't geared so much towards his level of play this pre-season per say, but more towards the way he looks as a player. The difference between Hill and this is even when Hill was struggling to me he still looked like he belonged. I'm not focusing too much on the box score but I've been a little taken back at how limited Leonard is in some areas based on the fact of where he was drafted and expectations. To put it another way, when he was drafted based on what little I could find on him and what pundits were saying, I expected him to be a little more polished and have a few more flashes of tremendous upside. I knew he would have some widely reported flaws, but I'm surprised I guess at how many I've seen in this limited time.

[manufan10]

I'd have to wait until we actually see Leonard play in games that matter before we can even say that the FO screwed up by trading Hill. Watching a few minutes of a preseason game and an intrasquad scrimmage cannot really give us the whole picture of a player. It will give us a glimpse, but that is about it.

[jjktkk]

That might be the case, but we could have had Anderson and Hill on the team. Hopefully it will be Kawhi who will make us forget about George ...

Don't forget Neal. I didn't want to trade Hill, but given the Spurs backcourt depth, it was a good trade for a potential lockdown defender at sf position in Leonard.

[lefty]

I like the feedback on Kawhi Leonard, especially on the defensive end. :D

Bowen wasn't great offensively either, so I don't have a problem with the lack of O.

[MannyIsGod]

Disagree.

My statement wasn't geared so much towards his level of play this pre-season per say, but more towards the way he looks as a player. The difference between Hill and this is even when Hill was struggling to me he still looked like he belonged. I'm not focusing too much on the box score but I've been a little taken back at how limited Leonard is in some areas based on the fact of where he was drafted and expectations. To put it another way, when he was drafted based on what little I could find on him and what pundits were saying, I expected him to be a little more polished and have a few more flashes of tremendous upside. I knew he would have some widely reported flaws, but I'm surprised I guess at how many I've seen in this limited time.

Leonard really doesn't have to impress much to make the trade a good one. Hill was a good 6th man, but good 6th men aren't exactly that hard to find in the NBA. Considering that Hill was likely to get overpaid in a couple of seasons, moving him was a no brainer. Even without that involved, I don't think a trade that doesn't even move you up to the lottery and involving a bench player can be considered that big.

Leonard was impressive when I saw him play agasint the Lobos last year but thats NCAA play so I don't read TOO much into it. We'll see.

[Interrohater]

I don't really think it's to difficult to see the reasoning behind the deal with Hill and Leonard. Leonard has all of the tools and the abilities to have a huge career. Hill was a sometimes exciting player that will probably have a nice, well-paid and long career, but will never be seen as the number 1, 2, or even 3rd option. He's a great luxury to have on a team with his tweener size, but Leonard has the potential to be a game changer.

[Nathan89]

That might be the case, but we could have had Anderson and Hill on the team. Hopefully it will be Kawhi who will make us forget about George ...

Hill had to be traded. We just have too much talent at the sg position to keep Hill. It would be a waste of talent to only play him behind Tony.

Trading for Kawhi fills a void in backup sf with someone who could be force defensively. Can he help this year? Maybe, but he doesn't have to be as good as Hill. The loss of Hill minimized by Anderson,Neal,and Ford. Kawhi is an attempt to fill another hole in this team.

The only question for me is if we traded him for the right player or even the right position.

[Fireball]

Hill had to be traded. We just have too much talent at the sg position to keep Hill. It would be a waste of talent to only play him behind Tony.

I am totally with you. I just wanted to point out hopefully Kawhi Leonard turns out to be the player the Spurs thought he would be. Because he was traded for George, not James Anderson ...

[DPG21920]

Leonard really doesn't have to impress much to make the trade a good one. Hill was a good 6th man, but good 6th men aren't exactly that hard to find in the NBA. Considering that Hill was likely to get overpaid in a couple of seasons, moving him was a no brainer. Even without that involved, I don't think a trade that doesn't even move you up to the lottery and involving a bench player can be considered that big.

Leonard was impressive when I saw him play agasint the Lobos last year but thats NCAA play so I don't read TOO much into it. We'll see.

I agree 100% with that. I think the trade is fine regardless of whether or not Leonard pans out unless Hill takes some major step forward. My statement wasn't about that but just Leonard the player in isolation. With regards to mentioning Hill it was more about losing a rotational player, not about how great Hill was/will be. But with regards to Leonard I'm just a little surprised at how much downside he has. I just haven't seen even a glimpse of the tremendous upside some pundits were touting and have seen a lot more holes than I anticipated from essentially a lottery pick. I'm not making a judgement on him yet, but these are the things that have surprised me to date.

[Interrohater]

The only question for me is if we traded him for the right player or even the right position.

I agree with one part. I have every confidence that Kawhi is going to be something special and somebody that we're going to meme like crazy when he goes off, but maybe we could have traded for a young big man to develop. I don't know, I don't watch college ball so I'm not even sure if there were any young PF/C worth the 15th spot.

[ace3g]

JMcDonald_SAEN Jeff McDonald
Duncan spent a lot of time playing 1-on-1 with Splitter during lockout: "I’m excited to see him out on the floor and seeing him help us.”
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Jeff McDonald
JMcDonald_SAEN Jeff McDonald
Don't know how Splitter will fare this season, but he's clearly more comfortable on the court and in the locker room.
4 minutes ago

Jeff McDonald
JMcDonald_SAEN Jeff McDonald
Tiago Splitter, on Tim Duncan's monster jam during Monday's scrimmage: "I wanted to make him look younger. That’s why I let him dunk on me.”

[manufan10]

JMcDonald_SAEN Jeff McDonald
Duncan spent a lot of time playing 1-on-1 with Splitter during lockout: "I’m excited to see him out on the floor and seeing him help us.”
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Jeff McDonald
JMcDonald_SAEN Jeff McDonald
Don't know how Splitter will fare this season, but he's clearly more comfortable on the court and in the locker room.
4 minutes ago

Jeff McDonald
JMcDonald_SAEN Jeff McDonald
Tiago Splitter, on Tim Duncan's monster jam during Monday's scrimmage: "I wanted to make him look younger. That’s why I let him dunk on me.”

:lol

Was just about to post that.

[SenorSpur]

Disagree.

My statement wasn't geared so much towards his level of play this pre-season per say, but more towards the way he looks as a player. The difference between Hill and this is even when Hill was struggling to me he still looked like he belonged. I'm not focusing too much on the box score but I've been a little taken back at how limited Leonard is in some areas based on the fact of where he was drafted and expectations. To put it another way, when he was drafted based on what little I could find on him and what pundits were saying, I expected him to be a little more polished and have a few more flashes of tremendous upside. I knew he would have some widely reported flaws, but I'm surprised I guess at how many I've seen in this limited time.

Hill was a fine player for the Spurs, but he didn't exactly address a clear positional need. He wasn't a good enough of either a passer or a ball-handler to be considered a true backup PG. And he was too short to be an undisputed SG. The fact is, as fine of a player as he was, Hill was a luxury player for the Spurs.

On the flip side, this team has been longing for a young, prototypical SF with length, ever since they missed out on Nic Batum in the 2008 draft (the same draft in which Hill was taken). With Leonard, he's got the size and physical tools that could enable him to eventually become a defensive demon. Though, it's way to early to pass judgement on him.

Like or not, this is a move the Spurs had to make. This was made especially clear after RJ's two seasons of continued suckiness. The fact that Pop was hamstrung and forced into having to stick Hill in at SF versus the Grizzlies in that ill-fated April playoff series, only justifies why Leonard is here.

[DPG21920]

I agree with that and have said that many times. My statements about Kawhi aren't really as much to do with the trade aspect as they are about what I've see from him as a player.

[elemento]

While I agree with some points that DPG has made, we cannot forget that we drafted a 19 year-old boy.

When we drafted Hill, he was already 22 and he was raw as fuck. Do you guys remember Hill's first game in the summer league? He was awful.
Everyone thought the boy was going to be a big time bust. We just have to give Kawhi some time. Not everyone is Lebron James at 19/20 years-old. It was just his first game and he will be fine IMO.

[LakerHater]

http://209.160.24.97/ds_img_direct.php?i=5-0.gif&t=8&d=1fjdcjav7c&x=360&y=480&l1=169&l2=61

[The Truth #6]

Not sure why we should be comparing how Leonard plays to how Hill plays.

They play two different positions (though granted, Pop would play Hill at SF sometimes out of desperation or idiocy, depending on the moment).

It's a team game so I think we should see what gap we are left at the SG and PG position with Hill's absence. Anderson and Neal should more than make up for Hill's contribution at SG, though it remains to be seen. Will the team suffer under the hands of TJ and Joseph -that's a better question.

But if Leonard shows promise and can outplay RJ in his rookie year, then I think that is the true test of the trade. I think this was a solid trade in every way. Hill was a poor PG, undersized SG, and often disappeared for long stretches. He's a great team player and can contribute to the cause, but our need at SF was too great to keep Hill.

[Obstructed_View]

The steal, dribble down the court and basket Leonard had against the Rockets was better than anything Hill did in his first two months as a Spur, and Leonard had two really impressive blocks in that game and rebounds like a demon. Not worried at this point.

[Manu-of-steel]

The steal, dribble down the court and basket Leonard had against the Rockets was better than anything Hill did in his first two months as a Spur, and Leonard had two really impressive blocks in that game and rebounds like a demon. Not worried at this point.

if he rebounds with authority, i'm ok with Leonard. He will be a big help on the boards for us.

[Obstructed_View]

if he rebounds with authority, i'm ok with Leonard. He will be a big help on the boards for us.

If Spurs fans are honest with ourselves, I think Leonard is everything we hoped Hill would be, only moreso and at the correct position.

[AFBlue]

Going to tomorrow's game...first in a couple years. Looking forward to seeing the young guns play. Who knows what happens to them once the games start to mean something.

[DPG21920]

Not sure why we should be comparing how Leonard plays to how Hill plays.

They play two different positions (though granted, Pop would play Hill at SF sometimes out of desperation or idiocy, depending on the moment).

It's a team game so I think we should see what gap we are left at the SG and PG position with Hill's absence. Anderson and Neal should more than make up for Hill's contribution at SG, though it remains to be seen. Will the team suffer under the hands of TJ and Joseph -that's a better question.

But if Leonard shows promise and can outplay RJ in his rookie year, then I think that is the true test of the trade. I think this was a solid trade in every way. Hill was a poor PG, undersized SG, and often disappeared for long stretches. He's a great team player and can contribute to the cause, but our need at SF was too great to keep Hill.

Who's comparing how Hill plays and Leonard?

[AFBlue]

Who's comparing how Hill plays and Leonard?


If Spurs fans are honest with ourselves, I think Leonard is everything we hoped Hill would be, only moreso and at the correct position.

That guy.

[AFBlue]

Who's comparing how Hill plays and Leonard?

Btw, to an earlier point...there's no way you, or anyone not lying to themselves, thought Hill looked like he belonged after those early struggles. He was God awful...and that's being kind.

[DPG21920]

IMO, Hill looked awful, but you saw at least saw a flash of *it*, at least I remember writing about it. I'm not complaining about the trade. I think it was a good one for the reasons we all mentioned. I'm not saying Kawhi has no talent and will be a bust. I'm simply saying that my expectations, realistic or not, were not met in the first two times I saw him play. It doesn't mean he played worse than Hill when he started. It just means that all I look for in these scenarios from young players amongst all the mistakes and chaos is the one flash of the *it* factor and I simply didn't see a single moment that made me say "this guy has the potential to be something really special". It could very well come and I trust the FO when it comes to drafting. This was just my little observation from the very limited time I have had to see him based on what I personally was watching for. I saw that flash from just about every player drafted before him that I have watched this pre-season.

[AFBlue]

IMO, Hill looked awful, but you saw at least saw a flash of *it*, at least I remember writing about it. I'm not complaining about the trade. I think it was a good one for the reasons we all mentioned. I'm not saying Kawhi has no talent and will be a bust. I'm simply saying that my expectations, realistic or not, were not met in the first two times I saw him play. It doesn't mean he played worse than Hill when he started. It just means that all I look for in these scenarios from young players amongst all the mistakes and chaos is the one flash of the *it* factor and I simply didn't see a single moment that made me say "this guy has the potential to be something really special". It could very well come and I trust the FO when it comes to drafting. This was just my little observation from the very limited time I have had to see him based on what I personally was watching for. I saw that flash from just about every player drafted before him that I have watched this pre-season.

You mean you haven't seen it yet right? Obviousl you're goin to give this kid more than one exhibition and one scrimmage right?

[AFBlue]

I personally haven't seen Leonard in either setting, so I'll be happy to see him up close tomorrow.

[mookie2001]

george hill was horrible last year, especially the playoffs the guy was lost in a sea of confusion. getting rid of him was the key offseason move actually. Gary is gon be up above it this year

[timvp]

What "early struggles" are we speaking about regarding Hill? Yeah he sucked in summer league but he was really good early on in his rookie season. It was November of his rookie year when he filled in for Parker and had that stretch of four 20 point games in a row or whatever it was.

And actually, I would call trading Hill a "big" trade. Outside of trading one of the Big Three, trading Hill was about as big of a splash the Spurs could make in the offseason. He was easily the fourth best player on the team, the team's best perimeter defender and the only young player on the team that was a sure thing to succeed long term.

I don't think Hill is a championship quality starter in this league but as a third guard who can seamlessly fill just about any crack, there aren't too many better than him.

If the Hill trade ends up just giving TJ Ford more minutes while sprinkling in leftover minutes for JA and Leonard, that would be a colossal downgrade.

[AFBlue]

george hill was horrible last year, especially the playoffs the guy was lost in a sea of confusion. getting rid of him was the key offseason move actually. Gary is gon be up above it this year

Revisionist history, though you could certainly suggest that Hill had reached his plateau. With Leonard you're not exactly sure where the ceiling is, but his floor for me is Mbah a Moute...and he plays a more critical role with the team as currently constructed.

[DPG21920]

You mean you haven't seen it yet right? Obviousl you're goin to give this kid more than one exhibition and one scrimmage right?


I personally haven't seen Leonard in either setting, so I'll be happy to see him up close tomorrow.

Yes, I mean I haven't seen it yet. My point was that it surprised me that I didn't even get a flash of it (others may have, I didn't) when I got it from almost all other rookies in their first game that I was able to watch that were drafted in Kawhi's range. They all were in the same boat as Kawhi. Even in the worst of games, you normally get one moment (at least), w/ Kawhi I got none and also learned he needed a lot more polish than I thought (which might have been my own fault).

Not a judgement, just an observation.

[AFBlue]

What "early struggles" are we speaking about regarding Hill? Yeah he sucked in summer league but he was really good early on in his rookie season. It was November of his rookie year when he filled in for Parker and had that stretch of four 20 point games in a row or whatever it was.

And actually, I would call trading Hill a "big" trade. Outside of trading one of the Big Three, trading Hill was about as big of a splash the Spurs could make in the offseason. He was easily the fourth best player on the team, the team's best perimeter defender and the only young player on the team that was a sure thing to succeed long term.

I don't think Hill is a championship quality starter in this league but as a third guard who can seamlessly fill just about any crack, there aren't too many better than him.

If the Hill trade ends up just giving TJ Ford more minutes while sprinkling in leftover minutes for JA and Leonard, that would be a colossal downgrade.

I was talking Summer League, since DPG has given Leonard all of two exhibitions.

[AFBlue]

Yes, I mean I haven't seen it yet. My point was that it surprised me that I didn't even get a flash of it (others may have, I didn't) when I got it from almost all other rookies in their first game that I was able to watch that were drafted in Kawhi's range. They all were in the same boat as Kawhi. Even in the worst of games, you normally get one moment (at least), w/ Kawhi I got none and also learned he needed a lot more polish than I thought (which might have been my own fault).

Not a judgement, just an observation.

Understand. Again, I'm looking forward to observing him and the team myself tomorrow.

[DPG21920]

What "early struggles" are we speaking about regarding Hill? Yeah he sucked in summer league but he was really good early on in his rookie season. It was November of his rookie year when he filled in for Parker and had that stretch of four 20 point games in a row or whatever it was.

And actually, I would call trading Hill a "big" trade. Outside of trading one of the Big Three, trading Hill was about as big of a splash the Spurs could make in the offseason. He was easily the fourth best player on the team, the team's best perimeter defender and the only young player on the team that was a sure thing to succeed long term.

I don't think Hill is a championship quality starter in this league but as a third guard who can seamlessly fill just about any crack, there aren't too many better than him.

If the Hill trade ends up just giving TJ Ford more minutes while sprinkling in leftover minutes for JA and Leonard, that would be a colossal downgrade.

They are referring to the SL with regards to Hill because of the fact Leonard has only had pre-season games. I agree 100% it was a big trade and I'm not sure you can really argue that. But my point was not to compare Hill to Leonard or evaluate the trade, but just make an observation about the only real time I've had to see Leonard play. Even though it was just one pre-season game I learned that he needs a lot of polish and his downside is greater than I initially thought possible. I didn't see a single second or moment of star potential and maybe I shouldn't have expected to, but I did based on the fact it was a big trade and where he was drafted and some of the hype. It didn't cause me great alarm as much as it did give me a bit more reality. I expect him to struggle but I also expect talent to shine through at least a few moments in a game like you saw with Jimmer, Kemba, Irving, Williams and all the other rookies you have seen play in their first game.

[timvp]

I was talking Summer League, since DPG has given Leonard all of two exhibitions.

Fair enough.



I think I somewhat agree with DPG if I'm understanding him correctly. So far, Kawai doesn't stand out as being an obvious NBA prospect. With players like Nic Batum and even George Hill, you could watch him for two minutes and see how they physically stand out from the pack. Kawhi had a rep for being quick, long and explosive. Those type of traits usually are obvious quickly.

I haven't seen it yet for Kawai. But, yes, it's eaaaaaaaaaarly. He very well could be holding back or he could just not be comfortable enough yet. I'm not ready to write him off but it'd be dishonest to say that Kawhi thus far has looked like anything more than a generic first round pick like DeMarre Carroll or Renaldo Balkman. So if that's what DPG is saying, I understand where he's coming from.

[AFBlue]

If the Hill trade ends up just giving TJ Ford more minutes while sprinkling in leftover minutes for JA and Leonard, that would be a colossal downgrade.

You're forgetting Neal. Granted he has to accept the challenge, but the fourth scorer role instantly became his once Hill was traded.

[AFBlue]

Fair enough.



I think I somewhat agree with DPG if I'm understanding him correctly. So far, Kawai doesn't stand out as being an obvious NBA prospect. With players like Nic Batum and even George Hill, you could watch him for two minutes and see how they physically stand out from the pack. Kawhi had a rep for being quick, long and explosive. Those type of traits usually are obvious quickly.

I haven't seen it yet for Kawai. But, yes, it's eaaaaaaaaaarly. He very well could be holding back or he could just not be comfortable enough yet. I'm not ready to write him off but it'd be dishonest to say that Kawhi thus far has looked like anything more than a generic first round pick like DeMarre Carroll or Renaldo Balkman. So if that's what DPG is saying, I understand where he's coming from.

I get it. I just have to see for myself tomorrow.

[objective]

Hill is having early struggles with his new team too, fwiw. 3.5 points a game on 23% shooting.


If the Hill trade ends up just giving TJ Ford more minutes while sprinkling in leftover minutes for JA and Leonard, that would be a colossal downgrade.

That is actually what I believe to be the most likely scenario, sort of a 'worst of both worlds' scenario. If Pop wasn't going to play Jefferson, RJ would be out of here already.

But now he gets to trot around lazily knowing he's bulletproof.

Leonard and Anderson = fringe minutes.

[objective]

I've seen enough of Leonard to be confident that he's a player. He's already someone I'd rather see play instead of RJ, not just to get ready for the future but for the present as well. He can play to my eyes.

If he's allowed to play of course.

[DPG21920]

Fair enough.



I think I somewhat agree with DPG if I'm understanding him correctly. So far, Kawai doesn't stand out as being an obvious NBA prospect. With players like Nic Batum and even George Hill, you could watch him for two minutes and see how they physically stand out from the pack. Kawhi had a rep for being quick, long and explosive. Those type of traits usually are obvious quickly.

I haven't seen it yet for Kawai. But, yes, it's eaaaaaaaaaarly. He very well could be holding back or he could just not be comfortable enough yet. I'm not ready to write him off but it'd be dishonest to say that Kawhi thus far has looked like anything more than a generic first round pick like DeMarre Carroll or Renaldo Balkman. So if that's what DPG is saying, I understand where he's coming from.

This is exactly what I'm saying. Not writing him off; just was observation from the limited time I've seen him.

[analyzed]

I guess from simply what "I see" perspective , nothing really stands out with Kawhi, I think the expecations are based more on what did FO see in him to make such a big move/trade. I would tend to trust FO / scouts that they did see something special in him. The one thing I observed however aside from the obvious physical gifts (Hand size, arm length) is his desire to be a better player. I haven't actually seen him workout, but from all reports , the guys a gym rat. One obvious proof of this is: his improved shooting. Now granted he had a lucky streak durring the open scrimage and hit , three out of three. But from a guy who was barely a 25 % 3 pt shooter in a shorter line (college) and hardly took atempts at 3, to someone who has the guts to even take them, while playing with future hall of famers and actually makes them, this tells me , his mental drive is there. And for me, that's what seperates good NBA players from guys who simply make it. ( or what seperates a Gerald Wallace from Blackman) it's all mental. His physical gifts at the very least puts him in that category of " if he get's it , he can be good" . And in a sense that's what I feel FO saw in him. aside from the obviou physical gifts

[Nathan89]

Hill is having early struggles with his new team too, fwiw. 3.5 points a game on 23% shooting.



That is actually what I believe to be the most likely scenario, sort of a 'worst of both worlds' scenario. If Pop wasn't going to play Jefferson, RJ would be out of here already.

But now he gets to trot around lazily knowing he's bulletproof.

Leonard and Anderson = fringe minutes.

One of them is going to get the bulk of the backup small-forward minutes. Leonard and Anderson are going to have a couple of regular season games while Neal is out to prove themselves. Whoever plays the best will get the bulk of the backup sf minutes. Because once Neal comes back he will get the bulk of the backup sg minutes.

[timvp]

He's already someone I'd rather see play instead of RJ

Leonard could have shot 0-for-112412 and gone Gary Neal on the Coyote during live game action and I think we'd all still want him to play instead of RJ :lol

[Nathan89]

Leonard didn't even know where to park his car. I'll just give him a little bit a time to settle in before i'm making any predictions about his game.

That being said I think he's already shown me that he is a better defender than RJ. That doesn't say much but I just like his defensive capabilities. His shot isn't great but he shot 3/3 3pts last game(the most important offensive attribute for a spur sf).

I just want to see more Kawhi.

[timvp]

I know McDonald claims Leonard went 3-for-3 on threes but by my count he was 0-for-3 on threes in the first half, hit three in a row to start the second half but then missed another two or three later on.

[Nathan89]

I know McDonald claims Leonard went 3-for-3 on threes but by my count he was 0-for-3 on threes in the first half, hit three in a row to start the second half but then missed another two or three later on.

Spurs spreading propaganda via McDonald.

[ace3g]

I believe McD stated that Leonard was 3-3 on catch and shoot 3s , not total 3s including off the dribble etc

[timvp]

I believe McD stated that Leonard was 3-3 on catch and shoot 3s , not total 3s including off the dribble etc

I think only one of his eight or so threes were not catch-and-shoot.

[ace3g]

ah, I'll put my trust in you timvp considering I didn't see all of the scrimmage.

[jesterbobman]

I don't think the scouting profile on Kawhi was that he makes explosive plays though. For instance

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Finding-a-Niche-For-Kawhi-Leonard-3695/

Statistically, he only averaged 0.6 blocks a game. His best trait is probably rebounding, Which normally doesn't stand out as an athletic play, but is central to helping teams win games (Having more possesions is usually a good thing). If Kawhi can be a solid rebounder at the 3, play the level of defense he's capable of, he helps our team win without scoring. I'd be fairly happy with 8 and 6 in 20 minutes a game(ideally, more minutes, but I don't think he'll play them), and signs throughout the year of continued offensive development in 1 or two ways, whether it's shooting in the traditional corner 3 role or some other way of getting points as a 4th or 5th option.

[timvp]

Six rebounds in 20 minutes per game would make Leonard the greatest rebounding small forward in basketball history . . .

[Obstructed_View]

That guy.

I was answering someone's earlier comparison. We loved Hill because he had long arms and could defend. We hoped he could rebound and be athletic enough to cover the tougher players in the league. When he made Kobe his bitch in a big win against the Lakers we were all elated, but we knew deep down that we needed Hill in a body about five inches taller in order to guard some of the taller players. When he was unable to play point guard consistently it became fairly clear that he wasn't really an upgrade over Gary Neal.

[GSH]

The one thing I remember about Hill was that he came in like he really, really had something to prove. And I guess he did. The energy and effort he brought, from the moment he hit the floor, were obvious. Maybe as part of that, I remember him gambling on defense, to Pop's displeasure. (But also coming up with some nice steals.)

Do any of you feel like you've seen Leonard's best, so far? I'm not suggesting that he's slacking. Maybe he's just getting the lay of the land. Hill just stuck his nose in it from the very beginning.

[jesterbobman]

I know that's somewhat ridiculous(8 and 4.5/5 might be more accurate), but rebounding is definitely his best skill, and the extra possessions he earns us will likely be his most significant contribution this year, and those tend not to be shocking, jaw dropping plays. Also, thinking of a TP-Manu-RJ-Blair-TD starting line-up, He may well be the best rebounder in the second unit, or very close to Tiago.

[Obstructed_View]

Six rebounds in 20 minutes per game would make Leonard the greatest rebounding small forward in basketball history . . .

Which is exactly what he did in his first game. Probably should have had more. Not a pattern, but an encouraging sign.

[analyzed]

I have no doubt Leonard will get his minutes, especially in the playoffs. If you look at the top 2 seeds in the West, OKC and Dallas and you see scorers Dirk and Durant. Now seriously who in the Spurs will guard either of the scorers? Bonner, Blair, even TD, you've got to be kidding me. We really have no choice but to put Leonard on them.

The other reason why I see him getting minutes, is rebounding.. that is the one skill that translates from college to the NBA. I know some of you won't like this.. but by playing Kawhi , you allow Bonner to play without being overally exposed on the rebounding and defensive end. Bonner and Kawhi will spread the floor, while Kawhi can defend the better scoring forward. (e.g Durant , while bonner takes Collison or Ibaka)

[will_spurs]

Which is exactly what he did in his first game. Probably should have had more. Not a pattern, but an encouraging sign.

Remember, though, that the Spurs are one of the weakest rebounding teams, so it must be easier to grab rebounds against these guys (teammates) than against real NBA competition.

[Interrohater]

I have no doubt Leonard will get his minutes, especially in the playoffs. If you look at the top 2 seeds in the West, OKC and Dallas and you see scorers Dirk and Durant. Now seriously who in the Spurs will guard either of the scorers? Bonner, Blair, even TD, you've got to be kidding me. We really have no choice but to put Leonard on them.

The other reason why I see him getting minutes, is rebounding.. that is the one skill that translates from college to the NBA. I know some of you won't like this.. but by playing Kawhi , you allow Bonner to play without being overally exposed on the rebounding and defensive end. Bonner and Kawhi will spread the floor, while Kawhi can defend the better scoring forward. (e.g Durant , while bonner takes Collison or Ibaka)

That's an interesting point and actually gives me hope. Did we trade George hill for a bigger, meaner George hill?

[Fireball]

That's an interesting point and actually gives me hope. Did we trade George hill for a bigger, meaner George hill?

That was the plan ...

[manufan10]

Maybe tonight will give us a better inclination of what Leonard can do. First preseason game and an intrasquad scrimmage won't do it for me.

[Fireball]

Maybe tonight will give us a better inclination of what Leonard can do. First preseason game and an intrasquad scrimmage won't do it for me.

Tonights game should also give no indication ... we need 20+ games to assess what he can or can't do. But with playing at home, now its a good time to start ...

[gospursgojas]

Haha monster robot dog

[manufan10]

Tonights game should also give no indication ... we need 20+ games to assess what he can or can't do. But with playing at home, now its a good time to start ...

I agree. I think now that he's had more practice time and 2 "games" under his belt would be a better time to try and figure out if he has "it."

[objective]

One of them is going to get the bulk of the backup small-forward minutes. Leonard and Anderson are going to have a couple of regular season games while Neal is out to prove themselves. Whoever plays the best will get the bulk of the backup sf minutes. Because once Neal comes back he will get the bulk of the backup sg minutes.

that's the problem.

Leonard and Anderson shouldn't be splitting up 15-20 minutes a game, they should be splitting 48.

[The Truth #6]

Having Neal out is obviously a set back, but just as Anderson being out last year allowed Neal a moment to shine, I think the same can happen for Anderson, especially with the busy schedule.

[The Truth #6]

As for the "it" factor with Leonard...I think it's too soon. Most players looked really bad because of the lack of training camp. And as far as Hill, he had a full training camp, a full preseason, and still went something like 3/23 on jumpers. All I remember from Hill from his first preseason was that Chris Paul (or some other top PG) told him to take it down a notch...and that Hill rebounded the ball well for a PG. Otherwise he looked bad, hesitant, and unsure of himself - traits that never fully went away. He was a streaky player that would never blossom on the same team with Tony Parker. He may "blow up" in Indy, but I don't think he ever would have in SA.

So in a sense, I still think Hill was overrated. Pop constantly went out of his way to give him accolades as a way to boost his low confidence. Yes, Hill did have glimpses. But by his third year he was still inconsistent and had yet to fully break out. I'd love to have Hill AND Leonard. But with Manu, Neal, and Anderson, I think Hill was the one to go.

[Killakobe81]

I agree 100% with that. I think the trade is fine regardless of whether or not Leonard pans out unless Hill takes some major step forward. My statement wasn't about that but just Leonard the player in isolation. With regards to mentioning Hill it was more about losing a rotational player, not about how great Hill was/will be. But with regards to Leonard I'm just a little surprised at how much downside he has. I just haven't seen even a glimpse of the tremendous upside some pundits were touting and have seen a lot more holes than I anticipated from essentially a lottery pick. I'm not making a judgement on him yet, but these are the things that have surprised me to date.

I dont think DPG is out of line here ... he is just stating he thought he would be more impressed with Leonard because the spurs gave up a fan and coach's favorite player. He never said he thinks the kid will be a bust or that Hill was too valuable to trade. I think you guys are being a bit over protective of Leonard because you guys have so much hope for the guy. I see (seen) the same crap on LG with Bynum.

I saw the guy play in college but have yet to see any of the Spur pre-season action. I will definitely be looking forward to seeing if I see the same issues that DPG observed.

[jjktkk]

I dont think DPG is out of line here ... he is just stating he thought he would be more impressed with Leonard because the spurs gave up a fan and coach's favorite player. He never said he thinks the kid will be a bust or that Hill was too valuable to trade. I think you guys are being a bit over protective of Leonard because you guys have so much hope for the guy. I see (seen) the same crap on LG with Bynum.

I saw the guy play in college but have yet to see any of the Spur pre-season action. I will definitely be looking forward to seeing if I see the same issues that DPG observed.

Leonard will be a work in progress, due him transitioning from a 4 in college, to a 3 in the NBA. Its too bad that Leonard did not have the a full Summer and traning camp to work with coaches. I definitely see the potential in Leonard though.

[manufan10]

Leonard will be a work in progress, due him transitioning from a 4 in college, to a 3 in the NBA. Its too bad that Leonard did not have the a full Summer and traning camp to work with coaches. I definitely see the potential in Leonard though.

I think some have forgotten about this too. He hasn't had the opportunity to really learn the system or work with the coaching staff due to the lockout.

[Obstructed_View]

Remember, though, that the Spurs are one of the weakest rebounding teams, so it must be easier to grab rebounds against these guys (teammates) than against real NBA competition.

Sorry, Spurs were 12th last year in rebounds, better than Dallas and Memphis. Nice try though.

[Manufan909]

Shooting decent on 3s in a game against future hall of famers is only a big deal if it's a playoff/important season game. This was an open scrimmage for crissakes!!!

Btw, the Admiral's arms looked as legendary as ever in that Manu gif... Who else would favor bringing him out of retirement and just snatching Bonner's salary if that could somehow be done with no effort? He might only be good for 10 min a game, but that would be fine with me.:hat

[LakerHater]

Btw, the Admiral's arms looked as legendary as ever in that Manu gif...
Was that his son in the background? How tall is he?

[MI21]

I honestly believe D-Rob could still play better post D than Blair and Bonner. Seriously.

[Manufan909]

Was that his son in the background? How tall is he?

Not sure, I doubt I'd recognize his son, tbqh.

[Obstructed_View]

Six rebounds in 20 minutes per game would make Leonard the greatest rebounding small forward in basketball history . . .

So far, he's seven rebounds in 17 minutes per game.

:danceclub :danceclub :danceclub :danceclub

[timvp]

So far, he's seven rebounds in 17 minutes per game.

:danceclub :danceclub :danceclub :danceclub

:lol At this pace, Kawhi's going to be the best rebounder in the entire NBA this season.

:lobt2:

[analyzed]

Kawhi's stealing rebounds that are Bonner's :)