The West is wide open

[DAF86]

Get another big (seriously, this has to happen, what if any of our bigs gets injured?), get Neal in there instead of Ford, work on Leonard's corner three and we might be there in june.

[HarlemHeat37]

Yup, I made a thread about it last week, about the Spurs squandering an opportunity to take advantage of a weak West, by not acquiring a big man.

This is the weakest Western Conference in 10+ years IMO..Spurs can definitely win it, if Bonner and Blair aren't forced to play major roles..

[benefactor]

Everyone is playing for second behind OKC.

[Bill_Brasky]

Westbrick will be the undoing of OKC.

[ChumpDumper]

Yup, I made a thread about it last week, about the Spurs squandering an opportunity to take advantage of a weak West, by not acquiring a big man.Which one?

[benefactor]

Westbrick will be the undoing of OKC.
Even with his mistakes they are still miles better than most of the teams in the West.

[DAF86]

Bring Dice back out of retirement.

[Bill_Brasky]

Even with his mistakes they are still miles better than most of the teams in the West.

I agree that they do look scary.....but a good defensive team can still lock them down IMO. Memphis came close last year.

[timtonymanu]

In other news, the Lakers look like 2005 Lakers right now.

[benefactor]

I agree that they do look scary.....but a good defensive team can still lock them down IMO. Memphis came close last year.
I think they will grow a lot from what happened last year. They are like a more athletic Amare/Nash Suns with defense. Durant will be hungry to atone for the failures of last year and Perkins and Ibaka are going to close off the paint. The biggest x-factor is Hardin though, who is basically their version of Manu Ginobili coming off the bench.

[GSH]

The real story of this season may prove to be how well teams handle the B2B's and B2B2B's. There are going to be a lot of L's on second nights. It's nice having some young legs. It may not make the Spurs better than the other teams, but I think they would really be in trouble if they didn't have them.

[024]

a little too early to tell. however, spurs can match up against OKC pretty well. i think they swept the thunder last year. it's really the front lines of the lakers and grizzlies the spurs have to worry about. they might have enough to get to the finals if they avoid those two teams in the playoffs.

[The_Worlds_finest]

Everyone is playing for second behind OKC.

Bro last year Spurs OWNED Thunder 3-0....

[DJ Mbenga]

this Is like the last lockout. Good teams are going to burn out leaving lots of upsets to happen. Houston and Utah were upset by youth

[Sean Cagney]

Even with his mistakes they are still miles better than most of the teams in the West.

I don't know about all that miles better stuff, but they are better yeah. Time will tell though.

[rascal]

Too bad the spurs are not serious contenders.

Winning the first game of the season has injected so much false hope. The roster still has a weak frontline.

[timtonymanu]

Spurs got the 3-0 record against OKC pre-Perkins trade. Spurs have yet to face the new look Thunder.

[The_Worlds_finest]

Too bad the spurs are not serious contenders.

Winning the first game of the season has injected so much false hope. The roster still has a weak frontline.

lol lay off the sauce, your a putz

[The_Worlds_finest]

Spurs got the 3-0 record against OKC pre-Perkins trade. Spurs have yet to face the new look Thunder.

Well find out but i dont think perkins will be that valuable of addition.

[DMC]

OKC is a tough kill, but RW is the big question mark. If he goes all Rondo and starts dishing, they could be unstoppable. Fortunately it's probably not going to happen and instead he wants to be DRose.

[Cry Havoc]

Splitter looked fantastic today.

[Obstructed_View]

Seeing energy and contributions from the youngsters right out of the gate gives me some confidence for this long grind of a season.

[TDMVPDPOY]

imo should just bring back dice, at least he knows the system and take some minutes from those heavy schedule games

allow leonard to play heavy minutes defending the stars of the game to get more experience defending those type of players which will come handy when playoffs come along...

[cutewizard]

This is from 48minutesofhell.com


"“I thought that Tiago was really good defensively, really solid,” San Antonio Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich said. “He stayed in good position, he blocked shots, he rebounded. He was real special tonight. He deserves a lot of credit.”

Read more: http://www.48minutesofhell.com/san-antonio-spurs-95-memphis-grizzlies-82-like-a-good-neighbor-manu-is-there-with-a-spurs-victory#ixzz1hj9TzZhR



goodness, finally Coach Pop appreciated Tiago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Capitan Tiago rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fireball]

Spurs got the 3-0 record against OKC pre-Perkins trade. Spurs have yet to face the new look Thunder.

I do not see how Perkins is a difference maker against the Spurs because he has no offense and the Spurs do not pound the rock inside that often anymore either. Spurs always played good against OKC because they were able to make Durant have a slightly below average game. Thats still 25 points or so, but bad shooting percentage etc.

[benefactor]

lol Spurfan logic. A legit defensive big man doesn't make OKC better but it is the solution to all the Spurs problems.

[Fireball]

Ibaka already is a defensive big ... what OKC really needed was a big with strong offensive post moves. Different teams have different needs ... overall Perkins may improve the Thunder, but not against the Spurs.

lol yourself

[Obstructed_View]

Perkins was only a defensive big when he played on a great defensive team.

[benefactor]

Ibaka already is a defensive big ... what OKC really needed was a big with strong offensive post moves. Different teams have different needs ... overall Perkins may improve the Thunder, but not against the Spurs.

lol yourself
The Thunder have enough offensive weapons. Durant pretty much cancels out the need for a scoring big as he more dominant in the post then most bigs in the league. They can score. They have a dominant bench player. They have defense and rebounding. Those things win championships.

lol not knowing much about basketball

[benefactor]

Perkins was only a defensive big when he played on a great defensive team.
Looks pretty good so far from what I've seen. He's playing beside a couple of other good defensive bigs so I don't see where the drop off would be.

[Fireball]

The Thunder have enough offensive weapons. Durant pretty much cancels out the need for a scoring big as he more dominant in the post then most bigs in the league. They can score. They have a dominant bench player. They have defense and rebounding. Those things win championships.

lol not knowing much about basketball

Two things. This thread is about the Western conference. The addition of Perkins was a good move for the Thunder because they wanted to compete against big teams like Dallas and L.A. They definitely did not make the move because they were worried of San Antonios frontline.

So, as the discussion in this thread came about the Spurs chances against the new Thunder, I will stay with my oppinion that Perkins will not make a difference. Jeff Green instead was a real matchup problem for the Spurs.

I may not know anything about basketball, but I watched all games against the Thunder last year. The Spurs won all of them because they made Durant and Westbrook look average and take tough shots. James Harden is improving, but I think even with him the OKC offense is still very much one-dimensional, because they all do the same things. Perkins does not change that if they play against the Spurs.

[SenorSpur]

Over the past 2 days, I've watched 6 basketball games (all five on Xmas day and of course, our beloved Spurs versus Grizzlies). I've seen the Fakers meltdown, the Clippers rise up and the Mavs literally self-destruct before their banner was even raised.

The pre-regular season storylines that have played out have been very interesting to watch. Cuban and the Mavs FO brass elected to allow defensive stalwart, Tyson Chandler, to walk. Now the Mavs have firmly, yet subtly, sent a message that they are NOT playing for this season, as they've cast all their chips for the 2012 free agent sweepstakes. The Clip joint finally make a sensible personnel move in acquiring Chris Paul. The Fakers elected to literally "give away" one of their key pieces in Lamar Odom . Now, in addition to being old and unathletic, Kobe is pissed and their team chemistry is shot. Meanwhile, OKC has assumed a Spurs-like approach, renewed their team commitment, maintained their core and are installed as the conference favorites.

That said, after watching my share of televised games, one thing that is crystal clear - the Western Conference IS MOST DEFINITELY WIDE OPEN, as others have said.

If the Spurs can somehow unearth another big to shore up their frontline and hedge themselves from injury, I believe now that they have as good of a shot as any team in the West. Originally, I was reluctant to entertain this notion, but I believe it now.

One other thing is clear, there is indeed a lot of bad basketball being played - post lockout.

[JR3]

Even with his mistakes they are still miles better than most of the teams in the West.
By how much did they beat minnesota by?

[benefactor]

Two things. This thread is about the Western conference. The addition of Perkins was a good move for the Thunder because they wanted to compete against big teams like Dallas and L.A. They definitely did not make the move because they were worried of San Antonios frontline.

They made the move to get better defensively down low. They were already pretty good with the players they had but Perkins gives them a true defensive big. He looks much quicker too now that he has slimmed down. It was less about who they do and do not match up with and more about overall defensive improvement.


So, as the discussion in this thread came about the Spurs chances against the new Thunder, I will stay with my oppinion that Perkins will not make a difference. Jeff Green instead was a real matchup problem for the Spurs.

Its not about a single matchup. Its about the Thunder being about a hundred times more of a complete team than the Spurs. Adding Perkins simply adds to that equation.


I may not know anything about basketball, but I watched all games against the Thunder last year. The Spurs won all of them because they made Durant and Westbrook look average and take tough shots. James Harden is improving, but I think even with him the OKC offense is still very much one-dimensional, because they all do the same things. Perkins does not change that if they play against the Spurs.
Two differences...one, those were regular season games. The Spurs would have likely been swept in the playoffs. Two, the Thunder are going to be a much better team this year...much more than you are giving them credit for. History seems to support that good young teams only get more cohesive with experience...unless you can provide some examples of talented young teams that only get worse.

[benefactor]

By how much did they beat minnesota by?
One regular season game...lol.

[FkLA]

Durant pretty much cancels out the need for a scoring big as he more dominant in the post then most bigs in the league.

Since when?

[Hooks]

Denver, Okl are clearly better....Just think if they resign smith, chandler and martin.
The clips are gonna make noise and Lakes should improve with time and Bynums return. Dallas will get right as Cuban will do what it takes.

We are no better than 5th in the West, and when the Grizz figure out Gay shoots to much they will move ahead of us as well.

Spurs must pick up a big or two or it is worthless to go through the season winninng only to go out in the first round and start a rebiuld with a pick in the 20s.


Denver isn't better than the Spurs lol. The Spurs match up extremely well OKC, they can definitely beat them in the playoffs. Dallas is done, we too match up with them very well, they can't replace TC's defense nor Barea's scoring.

L.A just gave away their bench by trading Odom, a guy who the Spurs could not guard for shit, they weakened themselves dramatically.

Memphis won because their Guards/Forwards posted up/rebounded/just scored at will on Hill/Neal. This has been fixed trading Hill, giving JA, KL PT.



Splitter is getting playing time, the combo of him and TD looks scary good, we've got a pretty damn good defensive player in Kawhi and a pretty darn good player in JA. The Spurs improved a lot, they basically got 3 new players this year.


The west is wide open.

[ElNono]

Two things. This thread is about the Western conference. The addition of Perkins was a good move for the Thunder because they wanted to compete against big teams like Dallas and L.A. They definitely did not make the move because they were worried of San Antonios frontline.

I'm sure they were worried about the Spurs penetration, which is where a lot of the Spurs easy points come from. As Memphis has shown, loading up the inside with a couple of good defenders negates that and turns the Spurs to a 3 point chucker team. On a potential matchup, Perk can guard Tim one on one, while Ibaka is swatting anything that walks into the paint.

If the Spurs are hitting the 3's it might not matter, but winning a ship on a 3 point heavy game plan is asking for way too much, unless we're substantially better defensively.

[SenorSpur]

I'm sure they were worried about the Spurs penetration, which is where a lot of the Spurs easy points come from. As Memphis has shown, loading up the inside with a couple of good defenders negates that and turns the Spurs to a 3 point chucker team. On a potential matchup, Perk can guard Tim one on one, while Ibaka is swatting anything that walks into the paint.

If the Spurs are hitting the 3's it might not matter, but winning a ship on a 3 point heavy game plan is asking for way too much, unless we're substantially better defensively.

Yeah, they aleady tried that approach last year - albeit unsuccessfully. Of course, they were a far worse defensive team last year too.

[Fireball]

I'm sure they were worried about the Spurs penetration, which is where a lot of the Spurs easy points come from. As Memphis has shown, loading up the inside with a couple of good defenders negates that and turns the Spurs to a 3 point chucker team. On a potential matchup, Perk can guard Tim one on one, while Ibaka is swatting anything that walks into the paint.

If the Spurs are hitting the 3's it might not matter, but winning a ship on a 3 point heavy game plan is asking for way too much, unless we're substantially better defensively.

Good points ... we will not have to wait long to see how the Spurs play against OKC. Thanks to the schedule OKC will always play the night before ...

[Obstructed_View]

Looks pretty good so far from what I've seen. He's playing beside a couple of other good defensive bigs so I don't see where the drop off would be.

He looks fine, and he's more effective being in such good shape. He's never been feared as a defender. The Celtics were a very very good defensive team.

[Spurtacus]

West is wide open after 1-2 games? Not really. I think we are seeing signs of a different West with the Thunder and Clippers possibly leading the way. Its still way too early to tell.

It doesn't matter how Spurs perform in the regular season. If they don't acquire another big they are one and done again in the playoffs.

[mathbzh]

History seems to support that good young teams only get more cohesive with experience...unless you can provide some examples of talented young teams that only get worse.

I don't know what will happen with OKC. They may have what it takes to win it all. But a lot of good young teams just become good "not so young" team and eventually not a good team.

The 2004-2005 Phoenix Suns where young (Amare 22, Johnson 23, QRichardson 24, Marion 26) only Nash was "old" (30)... but not yet in his best seasons.
And they would never have a better regular season (62-20) or playoff run (conference finals).

The 2007-2008 Hornets had their best season and playoff run with Paul (22), Chandler (25) and West (27)...

You can find a lot of similar example.

[WildcardManu]

I don't know what will happen with OKC. They may have what it takes to win it all. But a lot of good young teams just become good "not so young" team and eventually not a good team.

The 2004-2005 Phoenix Suns where young (Amare 22, Johnson 23, QRichardson 24, Marion 26) only Nash was "old" (30)... but not yet in his best seasons.
And they would never have a better regular season (62-20) or playoff run (conference finals).

The 2007-2008 Hornets had their best season and playoff run with Paul (22), Chandler (25) and West (27)...

You can find a lot of similar example.

Experience will always trump youth.

[Josepatches_]

Agree.

If Duncan is healthy I like our chances... maybe we could need another big.....but Dallas or Clippers need a couple of them....Lakers need one more....same Denver.


And yes,OKC is the team to beat in the West.

[Josepatches_]

Spurs got the 3-0 record against OKC pre-Perkins trade. Spurs have yet to face the new look Thunder.

yes ...and we are Spurs pre-Splitter

[ElNono]

Good points ... we will not have to wait long to see how the Spurs play against OKC. Thanks to the schedule OKC will always play the night before ...

Actually, we will have to wait long. Regular season games are rarely anything like the playoffs. That's why you have to plan ahead.

[rascal]

Actually, we will have to wait long. Regular season games are rarely anything like the playoffs. That's why you have to plan ahead.

Good point. You would think that Spur fans would learn after last year that regular season success does not mean playoff success.

[Horse]

Everyone keeps forgetting Manu had a broken elbow, if he didn't most of the games would've been like the one we saw last night in the playoff series. I belive Splitter looking and playing better will lead to better D and less Bonner. Add in Anderson and Leonard and we're right there. Memphis did not beat a healthy Spurs team. And don't tell me about gay cause they are worse with his ball-hogging ass.

[benefactor]

I don't know what will happen with OKC. They may have what it takes to win it all. But a lot of good young teams just become good "not so young" team and eventually not a good team.

The 2004-2005 Phoenix Suns where young (Amare 22, Johnson 23, QRichardson 24, Marion 26) only Nash was "old" (30)... but not yet in his best seasons.
And they would never have a better regular season (62-20) or playoff run (conference finals).

The 2007-2008 Hornets had their best season and playoff run with Paul (22), Chandler (25) and West (27)...

You can find a lot of similar example.
The Suns? Youth transforming into experience had nothing to do with why they failed. How can a Spurs fan not know this?

I'm done with you greys for now.

[mathbzh]

The Suns? Youth transforming into experience had nothing to do with why they failed. How can a Spurs fan not know this?

I'm done with you greys for now.

I know perfectly why they failed. The point is OKC failed last season and we don't know if and how much they will improve.

By the way, I believe they will make it to the finals.

[DAF86]

West is wide open after 1-2 games? Not really. I think we are seeing signs of a different West with the Thunder and Clippers possibly leading the way. Its still way too early to tell.

It doesn't matter how Spurs perform in the regular season. If they don't acquire another big they are one and done again in the playoffs.

No, the West is wide open since Dallas let Chandler walk and the Lakers lost Jackson and gave Odom away.

[kaji157]

As of now, i am quite confident that we can get better at our frontline, i prefer a semi retired oberto over Bonner and i think that move will happen, and then a trade for any serviceable big, not great just usable. (And if that trade is for Bonner... GOOD LORD!)

[diego]

The main issue for the spurs during this run has always been the condition of the big 3. If the big 3 are playing well, the role players just have to play roles. Last year Manu was hurt, Duncan was overwhelmed and Parker had his head up his ass, thus everyone not named Neal sucked.

Of those problems, the most worrying is Duncan. The past 2-3 years have shown he is too old to carry the entire frontcourt with no help- its not a knock on Tim, just reality. Unless Splitter and Leonard (and hopefully Blair but maybe that is too much wishful thinking) can really help Tim rebound and protect the basket, we will see the same as last year- a team that can't withstand the marathon of the season. And this season will only be worse with all the b2b and b2b2b.

As for the other west teams, the Spurs weakness has been the frontcourt and in that sense the teams that gave us the most problems are weaker now; that doesnt mean we still dont have a huge weakness to overcome. Last night we got outrebounded yet again, it will be very difficult to overcome weak rebounding with steals and 3 pters in the PO.

[z0sa]

The West was wide open enough for us to attain a #1 seed and almost the top seed overall. I think it's more than possible than we finish in the top 2 spots once again, at least west wise. Can our defense be scrappy enough for us to play like we deserved the position in the playoffs?

[CosmicCowboy]

Surprised nobody has mentioned the Clippers yet...It's gonna be strange having the Lakers be the second best team in LA...I'm thinking they are gonna surprise a lot of people including the Spurs tomorrow night...

[TE]

Surprised nobody has mentioned the Clippers yet...It's gonna be strange having the Lakers be the second best team in LA...I'm thinking they are gonna surprise a lot of people including the Spurs tomorrow night...

Surprise in what way?

[CosmicCowboy]

Surprise in what way?

Surprise in as actually being a playoff contender.

[TD 21]

The Thunder have enough offensive weapons. Durant pretty much cancels out the need for a scoring big as he more dominant in the post then most bigs in the league. They can score. They have a dominant bench player. They have defense and rebounding. Those things win championships.

lol not knowing much about basketball

Do they? They have three and they don't exactly fit together seamlessly. They don't have a scoring big, they lack outside shooting and they're still not very experienced. I'm not saying the West isn't theirs for the taking, I just don't buy that they're in another class.

I'd have to see the state the Spurs were in at the time, but if they were to play in the playoffs, I'd probably pick the Spurs to beat them. The Spurs biggest weakness, they don't have the personnel to exploit. And Leonard is the type of defender who could give Durant problems. Because he doesn't have to play major minutes or have a big role offensively, he could go all out defending him, too.

[therealtruth]

The main issue for the spurs during this run has always been the condition of the big 3. If the big 3 are playing well, the role players just have to play roles. Last year Manu was hurt, Duncan was overwhelmed and Parker had his head up his ass, thus everyone not named Neal sucked.

Of those problems, the most worrying is Duncan. The past 2-3 years have shown he is too old to carry the entire frontcourt with no help- its not a knock on Tim, just reality. Unless Splitter and Leonard (and hopefully Blair but maybe that is too much wishful thinking) can really help Tim rebound and protect the basket, we will see the same as last year- a team that can't withstand the marathon of the season. And this season will only be worse with all the b2b and b2b2b.

As for the other west teams, the Spurs weakness has been the frontcourt and in that sense the teams that gave us the most problems are weaker now; that doesnt mean we still dont have a huge weakness to overcome. Last night we got outrebounded yet again, it will be very difficult to overcome weak rebounding with steals and 3 pters in the PO.

I think the Kawhi, Tim, Tiago frontcourt has the potential to be very special. There's alot of length and defense in that frontcourt.

[ElNono]

Do they? They have three and they don't exactly fit together seamlessly. They don't have a scoring big, they lack outside shooting and they're still not very experienced. I'm not saying the West isn't theirs for the taking, I just don't buy that they're in another class.

Uh? Durant and Harden?

They can also penetrate at will. They're young, athletic, great defensive pieces, and a great 6th guy.

Their inexperience (especially Westbrook) is what did them in last season. But time fixes that. I liked that Presti basically stood pat in the offseason. They realize the roster they have is tops, they just need to keep logging more games and gaining that experience.

[benefactor]

Uh? Durant and Harden?

They re-signed Daequan Cook too.

lol no shooting

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Lol Spurs fans must love living in that fantasy land.
Only three teams can win the west: Dallas, OKC, LAL. Nothing has changed

[jjktkk]

Lol Spurs fans must love living in that fantasy land.
Only three teams can win the west: Dallas, OKC, LAL. Nothing has changed

Put your money where your mouthis, or should I say an ele bet on the Spurs going farther than the Mavs this year in the playsoffs. Show your Mav and Laker fan buddies you got a backbone. How does a 2 week ban on st sound?

[TD 21]

I said "they lack outside shooting", not "they have no outside shooting". Lol lacking basic reading comprehension.

Durant and Harden both shot approximately 35% from three last season and are both shooting approximately 36% from three in their careers. The league average from three is 35%.

Cook shot approximately 42% from three last season and is shooting approximately 37% from three for his career. He's their only player who could be called a three-point ace, but here's the problem: He's their tenth man. Which means in the playoffs, he'll have a hard time getting consistent minutes, because obviously Durant's and Harden's will increase. The only way to play him more than spot minutes would be to bench Mohammed and go small off the bench.

So let me get this straight. They have three playoff series under their belt and all of a sudden they're experienced? Don't get me wrong, I like their team and I think the West is theirs for the taking too, I'm just not sold on them taking it.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Put your money where your mouthis, or should I say an ele bet on the Spurs going farther than the Mavs this year in the playsoffs. Show your Mav and Laker fan buddies you got a backbone. How does a 2 week ban on st sound?

A month sounds better... I'll honor it no doubt.

[jjktkk]

A month sounds better... I'll honor it no doubt. oh yea you have a history on here abiut honoring your bets.

[DAF86]

Do you bealive me now?

[baseline bum]

this Is like the last lockout. Good teams are going to burn out leaving lots of upsets to happen. Houston and Utah were upset by youth

Can't really call Houston an upset, since LA had homecourt in that series.