Premature

[Calispursfan11]

I hate to be the speaker of the truth, but people vehemently bashing the Spurs' lack of offseason moves or success have prematurely blown their load. Discuss.

[Calispursfan11]

Standing pat while the league frantically tries to improve around you can be the best policy. I think the Spurs FO is the best at not panicking. If anything, they should have panicked after the first round exit, but they realized that was a fluke, Manu was injured etc. and did not freak out. Now the rest of the league should watch out.

[hater]

Spurs are not going anywhere without a decent bigman. Until they get one, they are just a mediocre team.

[Calispursfan11]

Spurs are not going anywhere without a decent bigman. Until they get one, they are just a mediocre team.

Spurs have two decent big men in Tiago and Tim. Twin towers baby.

[hater]

Tiago is not decent.

Tim is old.

I was talking about "decent" as in good for extended playoff minutes.

[Fireball]

Calling Tiago not decent is a shame. Everybody here wants the Spurs go back to their defensive roots and Tiago is a very good defender. Just accept his offensive limitations ...

[Calispursfan11]

Tiago is not decent.

Tim is old.

I was talking about "decent" as in good for extended playoff minutes.

Tiago will be decent. As the season progresses he will show at least the utility of Oberto plus more offense and youth. Yes Tim is aging, but he's in immaculate condition this year and I think he has at least one more left in the tank. Of course we could use a third good big as Blair and Bonner are usually garbage, but we're still top 5 at least and in the conversation.

[hater]

Again, we are not going anywhere with this frontline.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Again, we are not going anywhere with this frontline.

you're such a hater, hater

[lefty]

We suck

[benefactor]

The window is closed. You should probably start taking steps towards accepting this now to avoid suicidal ideation later. Your welcome.

[Imp23]

Why is everyone so quick to bash on the Spurs? Even the so called fans. Our team is far from average. Tiago will be good. The youngsters on the team have a lot of upside. We didn't make moves because the team is loyal to our Stars. Everyone want's the players to be loyal but if a team is they are not doing anything for us? :flag:

[Calispursfan11]

The window is closed. You should probably start taking steps towards accepting this now to avoid suicidal ideation later. Your welcome.

Example of a great fan here.

[Calispursfan11]

Why is everyone so quick to bash on the Spurs? Even the so called fans. Our team is far from average. Tiago will be good. The youngsters on the team have a lot of upside. We didn't make moves because the team is loyal to our Stars. Everyone want's the players to be loyal but if a team is they are not doing anything for us? :flag:
I Like!

[Calispursfan11]

you're such a hater, hater

Agree, he picked the perfect name.

[hater]

So you are a bad fan because you believe the window is closed? :lmao wake the fuck up.

IN THE PLAYOFFS Tim is only good for 20 minutes, Splitter let's pretend, another 20. Good luck playing Bonner and Blair for the rest :lmao

this team as is built is not competitive when the real season starts. Wake up

[Calispursfan11]

So you are a bad fan because you don't believe your team has a chance? :lmao wake the fuck up.

IN THE PLAYOFFS Tim is only good for 20 minutes, Splitter let's pretend, another 20. Good luck playing Bonner and Blair for the rest :lmao

You think you are being realistic and cool, but you are really just being a hater. The reality is we are close to top 5. If that doesn't spell a "chance", then you need to wake up buddy.

[Trill Clinton]

The window is closed. You should probably start taking steps towards accepting this now to avoid suicidal ideation later. Your welcome.


................................

[urunobili]

if only Dwight Howard... :rolleyes

[Toni61]

I hear some we need a big "decent" Player, again and again but who? Who on the market or in a trade is it?????

[hater]

You think you are being realistic and cool, but you are really just being a hater. The reality is we are close to top 5. If that doesn't spell a "chance", then you need to wake up buddy.

we might be top 5 in REGULAR season. But in the PLAYOFF we are nowhere close to top 5.

[Calispursfan11]

we might be top 5 in REGULAR season. But in the PLAYOFF we are nowhere close to top 5.

Okay, hater. I respect your posts and you are a smart guy, but I respectfully disagree with you on this one. Let's see where this ultimately goes come playoff time.

[hater]

Okay, hater. I respect your posts and you are a smart guy, but I respectfully disagree with you on this one. Let's see where this ultimately goes come playoff time.

Well what is your reasoning. How will the frontline minutes be distributed in the playoffs??

you really think we have a chance with Bonner + Blair playing 20+ minutes??? :wow

[jag]

Standing pat while the league frantically tries to improve around you can be the best policy.

What a great life lesson.

[The_Worlds_finest]

I hate to be the speaker of the truth, but people vehemently bashing the Spurs' lack of offseason moves or success have prematurely blown their load. Discuss.

bro... haven't you realized, these poster know everything?

[Calispursfan11]

Well what is your reasoning. How will the frontline minutes be distributed in the playoffs??

you really think we have a chance with Bonner + Blair playing 20+ minutes??? :wow

I think Pop will end up going to the twin towers for substantial minutes, even if not starting them together, with most minutes for BIGS going to them. As much as I am not high on Bonner/Blair, there are worse backup bigs and them getting 15-20 mins can be overcome, but we are going to have to go small ball at times to mix it up. In fact, I think Kawhi could be the BIG we are missing with his 7 foot plus wingspan and inate rebounding and defensive abilities. He's not a PF, but I think he could fill in at times and very effectively when needed. Our guard depth will always give opposing teams fits.

[Calispursfan11]

bro... haven't you realized, these poster know everything?

Of course they do!

[rascal]

I hear some we need a big "decent" Player, again and again but who? Who on the market or in a trade is it?????

Beasley may be on the market. Minn needs to find more minutes for Derrick Williams.

[Calispursfan11]

What a great life lesson.

Nuggets of wisdom to be found on ST!!

[rascal]

The Spurs win their first game and this board is full of championship optimism.
Just wait for the meltdown after a couple of losses.

[rascal]

The spurs may get out to a good start because they didn't make any major moves but come playoff time teams will be rounding into form and the spurs will still have the same roster deficiencies we saw last year.

[The_Worlds_finest]

The spurs may get out to a good start because they didn't make any major moves but come playoff time teams will be rounding into form and the spurs will still have the same roster deficiencies we saw last year.

bro, how do you figure the spurs will be the same team as last year with splitter, neal, anderson, leonard, ford?

[Spur|n|Austin]

I understand the reverse jinx from some posters, the ole act like all is lost while secretly hoping for the opposite in the backs of their minds; but some people here shouldnt even post and are the farthest thing from a true fan.

[rascal]

bro, how do you figure the spurs will be the same team as last year with splitter, neal, anderson, leonard, ford?



The spurs made one major move exchanging Hill with Leonard and added a couple of backup pgs and lost McDyess. Basically the same team as last year.
Of course not 100% the same team. Players are not static and there are changes (that holds for every team in the league) but they are going into the season with the same core roster as last year. And no upgrade on the frontline other than hoping Splitter is something special.

[The_Worlds_finest]

The spurs made one major move exchanging Hill with Leonard and added a couple of backup pgs and lost McDyess. Basically the same team as last year.
Of course not 100% the same team. Players are not static and there are changes (that holds for every team in the league) but they are going into the season with the same core roster as last year. And no upgrade on the frontline other than hoping Splitter is something special.

Bro, your wrong. Exchanging hill for leonard is not apples to apples. Hoping splitter is something special is just asinine, hell be good. Buckle up son. Spurs are going to be special this year

[Calispursfan11]

Bro, your wrong. Exchanging hill for leonard is not apples to apples. Hoping splitter is something special is just asinine, hell be good. Buckle up son. Spurs are going to be special this year

Agree!

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Spurs are not going anywhere without a decent bigman. Until they get one, they are just a mediocre team.

Memphis lost Darrell Arthur, Lakers lost Odom. Mavericks lost Chandler.
Not sure which teams in the West have such imposing front lines that the Spurs cannot handle with Duncan and Splitter.

The Chicago Bulls seem to do okay with Luc Longley and Will Perdue as their center. Pistons did fine with an undersized Ben Wallace. The Sixers won a championship with Moses Malone and Marc Iavaroni. Marc Iavaroni!?!?

Remind me again which decent bigs the Miami Heat have on their roster?

[rascal]

Memphis lost Darrell Arthur, Lakers lost Odom. Mavericks lost Chandler.
Not sure which teams in the West have such imposing front lines that the Spurs cannot handle with Duncan and Splitter.

The Chicago Bulls seem to do okay with Luc Longley and Will Perdue as their center. Pistons did fine with an undersized Ben Wallace. The Sixers won a championship with Moses Malone and Marc Iavaroni. Marc Iavaroni!?!?

Remind me again which decent bigs the Miami Heat have on their roster?

Chicago(Jordan), Miami(James) and the Sixers(Erving) had the best player in the game at the time. Moses Malone was one of the best big men in the game while with the 76ers.

[Imp23]

What front courts are we suppose to be afraid of? Playing good D will get us far. Even thou it was their first game the youngster see that playing good D and being tough will pay off.

:lobt2:

[jag]

The Chicago Bulls seem to do okay with Luc Longley and Will Perdue as their center. Pistons did fine with an undersized Ben Wallace. The Sixers won a championship with Moses Malone and Marc Iavaroni. Marc Iavaroni!?!?

Remind me again which decent bigs the Miami Heat have on their roster?

So what you're trying to tell everyone is that you don't need defensive bigs as long as you have MJ or Dr J on your team?

And last time I checked the Heat haven't won a title and their lack of a borderline decent bigman actually contributed to them not winning a title. Even still, they are the favorite to win it all this year so I'll play along: Bigs aren't important as long as you have MJ-Pippen, Dr. J-Moses Malone or LeBron-Wade-Bosh. Point taken.

[benefactor]

Example of a great fan here.
ok

[therealtruth]

Memphis lost Darrell Arthur, Lakers lost Odom. Mavericks lost Chandler.
Not sure which teams in the West have such imposing front lines that the Spurs cannot handle with Duncan and Splitter.

The Chicago Bulls seem to do okay with Luc Longley and Will Perdue as their center. Pistons did fine with an undersized Ben Wallace. The Sixers won a championship with Moses Malone and Marc Iavaroni. Marc Iavaroni!?!?

Remind me again which decent bigs the Miami Heat have on their roster?

Luc Longley was 7'2 and Will Perdue was 7'1. The Bulls had centers with size. Though Ben Wallace was undersized he was defensive player of the year.

[Calispursfan11]

I understand the reverse jinx from some posters, the ole act like all is lost while secretly hoping for the opposite in the backs of their minds; but some people here shouldnt even post and are the farthest thing from a true fan.

You are soo right man.

[Calispursfan11]

Beasley may be on the market. Minn needs to find more minutes for Derrick Williams.

I like your thinking on this post, man. We would be even stronger with another solid big, but not totally necessary to having a shot at a fifth ring in this diminished NBA season!

[DMC]

I hate to be the speaker of the truth, but people vehemently bashing the Spurs' lack of offseason moves or success have prematurely blown their load. Discuss.
It's your opinion. What's to discuss? We will all see soon enough.

[Calispursfan11]

It's your opinion. What's to discuss? We will all see soon enough.

The large majority of the posts on this board are opinion, yes? It is a reasoned opinion and that's what matters.

[DMC]

The large majority of the posts on this board are opinion, yes? It is a reasoned opinion and that's what matters.
I didn't see the reasoning behind it.

Teams improve (the word improve means something, fyi) for a reason. To not improve, when you got shit on by the 8th seed last year, isn't conducive to producing a championship team.

We will not win a championship with obscure rookie acquisitions and ass old rejected players from other teams.

Other teams don't spend so much money to win if it's so easy to just pick an unknown here and there and have them play with Matt Bonner.

[Calispursfan11]

I didn't see the reasoning behind it.

Teams improve (the word improve means something, fyi) for a reason. To not improve, when you got shit on by the 8th seed last year, isn't conducive to producing a championship team.

We will not win a championship with obscure rookie acquisitions and ass old rejected players from other teams.

Other teams don't spend so much money to win if it's so easy to just pick an unknown here and there and have them play with Matt Bonner.

Gloom and doom, much?

[DMC]

Gloom and doom, much?
No, just not cake and rainbows much.

[z0sa]

The window is closed. You should probably start taking steps towards accepting this now to avoid suicidal ideation later. Your welcome.

More proof the ST popularity contest "awards" were bullshit.

Counting the Spurs out for no reason other than age or a negative mindset won't ever be cool with a true fan. Look at Boston, they looked done in 2009 with the KG injury and Davis, DAVIS of all people having to step up, well guess what he did, and they still might contend again in 2012 for God's sake.

I like this team's chances in the West, at the bare minimum. As long as the Big 3 can play at a high level, there's always hope. With Tiago hopefully taking some of the defensive load off of Tim, I can see us *possibly* contending.

Goddamn gloomyweather fans, I swear..

[Calispursfan11]

No, just not cake and rainbows much.

Rose colored glasses would look good on you, my friend. Don't let wanting to put me in my place get in the way of your own happiness this holiday season. Go Spurs Go!

[ElNono]

Calling other posters "bad fans" or the like because they don't share your opinion or expectations for the team is retarded.

I'm pretty sure everybody here watches the Spurs, cheers for them and want the team to win.

[DMC]

Rose colored glasses would look good on you, my friend. Don't let wanting to put me in my place get in the way of your own happiness. Go Spurs Go!
I don't need to put you in your place. I am sure Spurs fans would love for your bubbly outlook to be right, but most of us know better.

[z0sa]

Calling other posters "bad fans" or the like because they don't share your opinion or expectations for the team is retarded.

I'm pretty sure everybody here watches the Spurs, cheers for them and want the team to win.

our team just won 60 *last season*. I would personally wager the majority of the spurs fanbase, maybe not here on ST, but in SA and abroad overall is still very excited about this team's chances.

Your expectations being low is a personal problem tbh

[DMC]

More proof the ST popularity contest "awards" were bullshit.

Counting the Spurs out for no reason other than age or a negative mindset won't ever be cool with a true fan. Look at Boston, they looked done in 2009 with the KG injury and Davis, DAVIS of all people having to step up, well guess what he did, and they still might contend again in 2012 for God's sake.

I like this team's chances in the West, at the bare minimum. As long as the Big 3 can play at a high level, there's always hope. With Tiago hopefully taking some of the defensive load off of Tim, I can see us *possibly* contending.

Goddamn gloomyweather fans, I swear..

Boston has done so much since 2009. :rolleyes

[DMC]

our team just won 60 *last season*. I would personally wager the majority of the spurs fanbase, maybe not here on ST, but in SA and abroad overall is still very excited about this team's chances.

Your expectations being low is caused by a negative mindset from posting on ST too much, tbh
The majority of fans who think we are championship material are ignorant of basketball goings on.

Their exuberance doesn't move me. This forum is for discussion and some here do know basketball goings on.

[z0sa]

Boston has done so much since 2009. :rolleyes

A finals appearance that went all the way Game 7 doesn't sound like much to you. Ok.

Negativity breeds negativity.

[z0sa]

The majority of fans who think we are championship material are ignorant of basketball goings on.

In your negative, biased opinion.


Their exuberance doesn't move me. This forum is for discussion and some here do know basketball goings on.

Fine, just don't be ultra defensive like you're being when I call you out for prematurely shitting on the parade.

Only 1 team out of 29 wins. Even in our best years we weren't ever guaranteed a title. Spurs fans = spoiled.

[trypldubl]

The defense looks like it will improve this year but if we keep shooting 30 three pointers a game then we are not winning a trophy. Do you think we are going to get open looks in the playoffs?

[Imp23]

We just need to play tough D. An open 3 is a good 3 for any shooter. We are stacked with shooters so if they are open why not. That's the reason TP and Manu go to the rack to give folks open looks. Play D and Push the ball.

[SenorSpur]

Calling other posters "bad fans" or the like because they don't share your opinion or expectations for the team is retarded.

I'm pretty sure everybody here watches the Spurs, cheers for them and want the team to win.

This - is exactly the point.

I've said this before, yet it bears repeating again. Just because someone doles out constructive criticism about the team or questions the rationale of some management decision DOES NOT make them any less of a fan than someone who does not.

Personally, I'd say that anyone who believes this team should or will "win a title every year" or that "every move the FO makes is perfect" is as "over the top" with their opinion as someone who feels that the FO never does anything right.

It's a known fact that the window of championship contention for any team is cyclical. We'd all like to see that 5th championship. However, we also know that, at some point, the good times will end - if they haven't already. As a matter of fact, if you consider the Spurs last two playoff appearances, the existing frontcourt deficiencies and the age and decline of our resident superstar (Duncan), it certainly justifies the opinions of those that believe the title window has closed.

The point is, we're all Spurs fans. Some are more "rose-colored" optimists than others, while others are more pragmatic and realistic than some. After all, this is a discussion forum and everyone here has a right to their opinion.

[DMC]

In your negative, biased opinion.

Oh no, I'm completely unbiased, just like you. Also, my opinion is only negative to those who disagree with me.


Fine, just don't be ultra defensive like you're being when I call you out for prematurely shitting on the parade.
Don't have premature parades. We're 1 game in.


Only 1 team out of 29 wins. Even in our best years we weren't ever guaranteed a title. Spurs fans = spoiled.30 teams in the league, tbh.

Ok, some think being a fan means blindly cheerleading. That's fine. I support the group too, but instead of being a cheerleader who's conditioned and trained to repeat ad nauseum "go team go", I am the booster in the audience who wants to tell the coach to play the big guy, else we will lose like last year. We are both fans.

[ElNono]

our team just won 60 *last season*. I would personally wager the majority of the spurs fanbase, maybe not here on ST, but in SA and abroad overall is still very excited about this team's chances.

Based on what?


Your expectations being low is a personal problem tbh

I would call my expectations realistic. It's a matter of opinion really. There's no right or wrong here.

[z0sa]

Oh no, I'm completely unbiased, just like you. Also, my opinion is only negative to those who disagree with me.

Your opinion appears factually negative. Unless you wish to consider the Spurs being a fringe team positive. Wouldn't surprise me with gloomy weather fans.


Don't have premature parades. We're 1 game in.

You've both created the parade and shit on it. Normal spurs fan doesn't judge his healthy Big 3's team on Game 1.


30 teams in the league, tbh.

duly noted.

[z0sa]

Based on what?

It's not based on any set survey or facts. Just the amount of smiling faces at the game and the general attitude of fellow spurs fans here locally. 60 win seasons don't happen every season for every team, even if you take it for granted because we faced an elite defensive team in the first round and lost.


I would call my expectations realistic. It's a matter of opinion really. There's no right or wrong here.

I'm not trying to change your opinion. Only make you justify it with something other than Bonner sucks, we need bigmen, etc. AKA potentialities and conditions you also have no way of proving would improve the team or make us surefire contenders. Why be negative when you can be positive? is all I ask.

[ElNono]

It's not based on any set survey or facts. Just the amount of smiling faces at games and the general attitude of fellow spurs fans here locally. 60 win seasons don't happen every season for every team, even if you take it for granted because we faced an elite defensive team in the first round and lost.

I have a smiling face when I watch the Spurs. That doesn't mean I consider the team as currently constructed to have any better odds at winning it all.

I think you're confused between being excited to see the Spurs again with realistic chances of going all the way as things stand today.

Regular season wins are simply not the ultimate word in playoff performance. They mean jackshit if players that thrive in the regular season don't show up in the playoffs (Bonner, RJ, Blair, etc). I've seen no indication this team is going away from those guys having somewhat leading roles with the team.


I'm not trying to change your opinion. Only make you justify it with something other than Bonner sucks, we need bigmen, etc. AKA potentialities and conditions you also have no way of proving would improve the team or make us surefire contenders.

Well, an injury to other contender(s) could make us contenders. I just rather not rely on that. Do I know for a fact Bonner, RJ and Blair will suddenly grow a pair in the playoffs? No. I'm just going with the sampling we have.

What I do know, is that if we're going to address that in a meaningful way (other than hoping), whoever their replacements are need to come over and start playing sooner rather than later, due to the system, etc (somewhat what happened with Splitter last season, who was not ready when the playoffs came around).

For example, I'm happy Kawhi is getting minutes early. It means that potentially, the RJ issue is tackled. But inside, there's not enough answers. Splitter is there (replaces Dice, basically), and could spare Tim, maybe get some Bonner minutes. But we don't have enough in there for the amount of minutes.

[z0sa]

Sometimes I get a little outspoken about this stuff, especially at the start of the season. Seeing a bunch of negativity from other spurs fans bothers the shit out of me. I always try to think of the city and fans as part of the team in a way. Maybe I'm just too old school in that regard, pledging allegiance to the flag of millionaires who couldn't care less (Holt). But until Tim's wheels fall off, I'm on the ship all the way til it touches the muddy bottom.

[therealtruth]

An open 3 is a good shot if it's a good shooter and they get back on defense. I agree the Spurs should work on other stuff as well because the first thing the other team will take away in the playoffs is the three point shot. Exactly what happened last year. The Spurs were the number 1 three point team in the RS but the Grizzlies took those looks away.

[NRHector]

The window is closed. You should probably start taking steps towards accepting this now to avoid suicidal ideation later. Your welcome.I don't give a royal F@#$%^ if the window is closed I'm still supporting them

[ElNono]

Sometimes I get a little outspoken about this stuff, especially at the start of the season. Seeing a bunch of negativity from other spurs fans bothers the shit out of me. I always try to think of the city and fans as part of the team in a way. Maybe I'm just too old school in that regard, pledging allegiance to the flag of millionaires who couldn't care less (Holt). But until Tim's wheels fall off, I'm on the ship all the way til it touches the muddy bottom.

I'll be watching, cheering, throwing shit at the TV, yelling at the TV, trolling at other team's fans and doing what fans do... sink or swim. I don't think that should preclude anybody from having an honest opinion at any given time.

For example, I think chazley is wrong 95% of the time. But he's certainly entitled to his opinion. :lol

[NRHector]

I'll be watching, cheering, throwing shit at the TV, yelling at the TV, trolling at other team's fans and doing what fans do... sink or swim. I don't think that should preclude anybody from having an honest opinion at any given time.

For example, I think chazley is wrong 95% of the time. But he's certainly entitled to his opinion. :lol:lol

[dbestpro]

A finals appearance that went all the way Game 7 doesn't sound like much to you. Ok.

Negativity breeds negativity.

There are no rings for second place. You either win it all or you don't. - Yoda

[DMC]

Your opinion appears factually negative. Unless you wish to consider the Spurs being a fringe team positive. Wouldn't surprise me with gloomy weather fans.

Tautologies are not good arguments, you should avoid them henceforth.

In order for something to be negative, there has to be a reference. The reference, for me, is reality. I don't go below that in terms of outlook. Doing so is pessimistic and invokes a sense of "doom and gloom" as you said. I also don't go above reality and inject homer hope. Doing so is cake and rainbows, as I said. I remain well grounded. Ground is my reference.


You've both created the parade and shit on it. Normal spurs fan doesn't judge his healthy Big 3's team on Game 1.
Can a "normal" spurs fan (Scotsman fallacy btw) judge that Tim Duncan won't average 30/15 a night or would that be doom and gloom?

So, let me come closer to your side of the field... If the other competitive teams all suffer injuries to their stars and their critical role players suddenly become basket cases, the Spurs would be legit contenders.

Happy?

[DMC]

Sometimes I get a little outspoken about this stuff, especially at the start of the season. Seeing a bunch of negativity from other spurs fans bothers the shit out of me. I always try to think of the city and fans as part of the team in a way. Maybe I'm just too old school in that regard, pledging allegiance to the flag of millionaires who couldn't care less (Holt). But until Tim's wheels fall off, I'm on the ship all the way til it touches the muddy bottom.
Even the coaches will tell you they are not championship contenders at this time. They probably won't say they will not be all year, but we all know that, without Divine intervention and some serious trade deadline movement (like really serious), we aren't.

[underdawg]

I'm sure there are a lot of folks that are ok with rooting for an above average team and that's fine.

Some people expect the very best out of the team they root for and like to identify weaknesses even though all they can do is hope that the team will adress those weaknesses. That just seems like the very core of sport - the stronger player/team usually wins and why wouldn't you want the team you root for to be the stronger team?

By the way, if you think Spurs fans are spoiled you probably haven't talked to fans of other successful franchises very much. Most fans demand success once they've been exposed to it. It's a sport, a competition and at the end of the day only the teams that wins it all will be remembered.

Good test tonight for the Spurs against an up and coming team with a formidable front court. I'll be happier about a win tonight than against Memphis in terms of gauging this team.

[Pentagruel]

I think both sides of the argument are being premature.

For any viewer of the Spurs there are a number of obvious important flaws in the team. These are mostly in regards to post play. Historically this has been a very important category as the Spurs know only to well from their past championships. With Tim Duncan deteriorating the Spurs no longer have a truly elite and lasting big man.

With that said, Duncan is and always will be an extremely talented player an we have seen that in the past seasons that he can still be among the best players in the league from time to time. A 60+ win season last year is certainly an impressive accomplishment and I feel completely invalidates anyone who thinks we have absolutely no chance to win the fits next year.

On the other hand, its clear we had a number of deficiencies that led to the Spurs demise in the playoffs. We had no way to defend Zach Randolph last year, one of the most talented offensive big men in the league. Further more, age of important players (Manu, Tim) has accounted for minor and major injuries limiting their ability to perform at their best.

It should be clear that the Spurs ability to win the championship after a grueling season has become precarious, but it's wrong to conclude that we have no chance to do so. We still have the talent to be able to win, we just have to hope for the health and the matchup (we do well against OKC for example, less well against the Lakers who have offensively strong big men).

As for specifically this season, I see no reason to believe are chances are much worse then last season. Many other teams in the west got weaker (Dallas, Lakers), and the Spurs got no worse, likely better with the acclimatization of Tiago Splitter. I certainly don't expect the spurs to win the championship but I wouldn't be Terribly surprised if they did either.

[DMC]

I'm sure there are a lot of folks that are ok with rooting for an above average team and that's fine.

Some people expect the very best out of the team they root for and like to identify weaknesses even though all they can do is hope that the team will adress those weaknesses. That just seems like the very core of sport - the stronger player/team usually wins and why wouldn't you want the team you root for to be the stronger team?

By the way, if you think Spurs fans are spoiled you probably haven't talked to fans of other successful franchises very much. Most fans demand success once they've been exposed to it. It's a sport, a competition and at the end of the day only the teams that wins it all will be remembered.

Good test tonight for the Spurs against an up and coming team with a formidable front court. I'll be happier about a win tonight than against Memphis in terms of gauging this team.
I won't think much about tonight either way, win or lose. The team is basically in training camp mode still, and their opponents are as well. What happens tonight could reverse in two months when teams become acclimated.

That said, it's hard to get all those new players in synch, when speaking of the Clippers of course. In SA, the core is intact and others follow their leads.

[benefactor]

Don't worry z0sa...this is Bonner's year. Don't stop believing.

[underdawg]

I won't think much about tonight either way, win or lose. The team is basically in training camp mode still, and their opponents are as well. What happens tonight could reverse in two months when teams become acclimated.

That said, it's hard to get all those new players in synch, when speaking of the Clippers of course. In SA, the core is intact and others follow their leads.

you mean you're not ready to make a judgement call on a team after 2 whole games in the season?

Sarcasm aside, I will be impressed with the Spurs if they are able defend Paul, Griffin and the Clippers in general. Yes, I understand that it doesn't mean much, but the Clippers are an athletic team and I think it's a good chance to gauge the Spurs ability to defend against athletic teams early on. It will only get tougher as the shortened season wears on some of the older legs.

[z0sa]

Don't stop believing.

Don't worry, I'm not like you. :toast

[DPG21920]

Zosa, you are being beyond silly. There is nothing more lame than someone justifying their fandom and using generic lines like "I bleed black & silver" blah blah blah. No you don't. You bleed blood. Just like everyone.

[timtonymanu]

I agree with Senor. What makes you believers better fans than the rest of us? As currently constructed, this team has flaws and they really did nothing to address them in the offseason.

Sure, they'll still be a good team and if they peak at the right time, they can make a big run to the WCF at best.

You can't keep saying every year that the Spurs will be there at the end or that so and so will play like this in the playoffs. The last 3 postseasons have shown that the Spurs just don't have it anymore. It doesn't make me support them less, but I'm just facing the truth.

[z0sa]

Zosa, you are being beyond silly. There is nothing more lame than someone justifying their fandom and using generic lines like "I bleed black & silver" blah blah blah. No you don't. You bleed blood. Just like everyone.

lol I never said I bleed black and silver. Even though I do.

[ChuckD]

I hate to be the speaker of the truth, but people vehemently bashing the Spurs' lack of offseason moves or success have prematurely blown their load. Discuss.

There are two schools of thought on this board, doom and gloom, and sunshine. Neither convinces the other of anything.

[benefactor]

ElNono summed things up pretty well. Being a fan of your team doesn't have anything to do with your opinion about their potential. I don't think this team is a bad team...I just don't think they are contenders anymore. I'd like people to go ahead and start accepting that to avoid mass wrist cutting at the end of the year but it's whatever.

I think it's a bit homerish to think they are still contenders but that is my opinion(one that is backed by things that have already been said in this thread). I don't think z0sa is less of a fan for thinking that...or for even loving Bonner as much as he does. That better than fans like mexicanjunior who jerk off to the Spurs failing.

[benefactor]

And for the record...I never called the OP less than a fan. I'm sure he's a very dedicated fan.

[Calispursfan11]

Tonight we looked BEAST ya'll. Go Spurs Go!

[benefactor]

They played well.

:toast

[SCdac]

Spurs won 61 games last season... and we know how that ended. Point being, I'm less interested in how we're playing now, and more interested in how we play going into the playoffs. I have no doubts that we can string together a bunch of solid wins, even 10 in a row if we get rolling, but I do have doubts about how well our players will play once the pressure is on, and the teams we're facing are not rusty. Doesn't mean this win is meaningless (don't get me wrong), I guess nowadays I'm looking less at the "W" or "L" and more so what from the games can be realistically used or applied to the playoffs. Saw some good stuff in that LAC-SAS game, certainly.

[DMC]

In a few weeks we should see the glaring weaknesses that aren't red headed. If we can look at those and think we can tidy them up, meaning we have the pieces, we should be ok.

[cutewizard]

nice team management by Coach Pop today:

9 players with at least 20 minutes of playing time or more....


way to go Pop, keep playing chess!!!!!

[cutewizard]

as long as we improve on defense, and keep on growing on that level,


WE SHALL HAVE A CHANCE.....


OPTIMISM, yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Chase_the_Bass]

Just wait until we trade for Dwight

[therealtruth]

Spurs won 61 games last season... and we know how that ended. Point being, I'm less interested in how we're playing now, and more interested in how we play going into the playoffs. I have no doubts that we can string together a bunch of solid wins, even 10 in a row if we get rolling, but I do have doubts about how well our players will play once the pressure is on, and the teams we're facing are not rusty. Doesn't mean this win is meaningless (don't get me wrong), I guess nowadays I'm looking less at the "W" or "L" and more so what from the games can be realistically used or applied to the playoffs. Saw some good stuff in that LAC-SAS game, certainly.

How were playing now will still have an effect on the playoffs barring injuries. Last year the team never really defended that well consistently. They won by outscoring opponents. We're at least seeing some good defense early on. The offense still looks to be good.

[Calispursfan11]

How were playing now will still have an effect on the playoffs barring injuries. Last year the team never really defended that well consistently. They won by outscoring opponents. We're at least seeing some good defense early on. The offense still looks to be good.

Agree. That makes sense.

[Calispursfan11]

as long as we improve on defense, and keep on growing on that level,


WE SHALL HAVE A CHANCE.....


OPTIMISM, yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Sounds like a plan!

[Calispursfan11]

And for the record...I never called the OP less than a fan. I'm sure he's a very dedicated fan.

Bro, thanks for that. I do appreciate the confidence.

[Calispursfan11]

Don't worry, I'm not like you. :toast

Without calling anyone on here a bad fan, I must say that you are a true fan. Thanks for supporting the Spurs :toast

[GSH]

Like it or not, it's still a big man's game. We have 3 big men. One aging, one soft, and one short. That's going to be a problem - especially when facing the better teams in the post-season. There was nothing premature about being critical of the offseason personnel decisions.

The lack of Antonio McDyess's minutes leaves a gaping hole, where the team was already weak. It didn't get addressed. Criticism earned.

The dynamics of the lockout - short camp, compressed schedule, and lots of player movement, are being felt. We are, for all purposes, still watching pre-season play. If the young guys can keep contributing, things look a lot better. But that doesn't make up for being short a big man in the rotation.

[Calispursfan11]

Like it or not, it's still a big man's game. We have 3 big men. One aging, one soft, and one short. That's going to be a problem - especially when facing the better teams in the post-season. There was nothing premature about being critical of the offseason personnel decisions.

The lack of Antonio McDyess's minutes leaves a gaping hole, where the team was already weak. It didn't get addressed. Criticism earned.

The dynamics of the lockout - short camp, compressed schedule, and lots of player movement, are being felt. We are, for all purposes, still watching pre-season play. If the young guys can keep contributing, things look a lot better. But that doesn't make up for being short a big man in the rotation.

Who did the late 80s championship Bad Boys have in the way of BIGS? Rick Mahorn? Bill Lambeer? a 6-7 Dennis Rodman? While that frontline is imposing and tough, I don't see it as more talented than TD - the best PF ever even if getting long in the tooth, Euro Ace Splitter, plus Blair/Kawhi. If anything it's a wash or slightly in favor of the Spurs. What I'm saying is yes, big men are important, but ours are pretty good as is, and our guard play is going to be BEAST!

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs are good, but would have been better with someone other than Matt Bonner in the rotation.

/thread

[z0sa]

Without calling anyone on here a bad fan, I must say that you are a true fan. Thanks for supporting the Spurs :toast

:toast to you, and to all my fellow spurs fans, whatever your outlook may be.

[DMC]

as long as we improve on defense, and keep on growing on that level,


WE SHALL HAVE A CHANCE.....


OPTIMISM, yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
How's that working for you right now?

[DMC]

:toast to you, and to all my fellow spurs fans, whatever your outlook may be.
How about you, are you ready to come to the dark side?

[Dex]

The Spurs are good, but would have been better with someone other than Matt Bonner in the rotation.

/thread

2.76 more seasons....:smchode:

[Calispursfan11]

How about you, are you ready to come to the dark side?

DMC, I respect you like hell, but one loss will not bring on the darkness for me. Plus I think Pop threw in the towel early with the Rockets. Most teams are going to face that this year due to fatigue and will have to make the call whether to run their starters into the ground or live to fight another day.

[z0sa]

How about you, are you ready to come to the dark side?

My allegiance to the Spurs is undying. As long as there's even a slight chance I'm good. And when that chance is gone, I'll still be cheering, and from way better seats, too :downspin:

[DMC]

DMC, I respect you like hell, but one loss will not bring on the darkness for me. Plus I think Pop threw in the towel early with the Rockets. Most teams are going to face that this year due to fatigue and will have to make the call whether to run their starters into the ground or live to fight another day.

Of course, if you are well grounded in this, you know that we don't know much just yet. However, if you want to go spastic on a couple wins, you have to be consistent and overreact to a loss.

Don't confuse grip on reality with pessimism. We all want the Spurs to win a title, but when the dog won't hunt, you should probably have backup plans for dinner.

[Calispursfan11]

My allegiance to the Spurs is undying. As long as there's even a slight chance I'm good. And when that chance is gone, I'll still be cheering, and from way better seats, too :downspin:

LOL, I like! You're right, there is an upside if we ever become the new Clippers of the league. Cheap seats become good seats.

[Calispursfan11]

Of course, if you are well grounded in this, you know that we don't know much just yet. However, if you want to go spastic on a couple wins, you have to be consistent and overreact to a loss.

Don't confuse grip on reality with pessimism. We all want the Spurs to win a title, but when the dog won't hunt, you should probably have backup plans for dinner.

I'm not saying you're a simply pessimistic dude. I wouldn't respect you if you were JUST that. That would mean you have no grip on reality. You do have a grip on the facts, but you're slightly skewed toward the darkness. I'm just saying.

[DMC]

I'm not saying you're a simply pessimistic dude. I wouldn't respect you if you were JUST that. That would mean you have no grip on reality. You do have a grip on the facts, but you're slightly skewed toward the darkness. I'm just saying.

No. I have not predicted failure. I just haven't seen a reason to make a prediction. We are not currently a championship caliber squad. That doesn't mean we won't be, but I haven't seen anything to make me think we are.

Faith isn't required in professional sports. I can be a fan without being irrational or zealous. In fact, irrational zealotry is annoying and hard to converse with. You end up jousting windmills constructed of confirmation bias and cherry picking.

[spurs10]

This thread is relentless! I guess none of us would be here if we weren't rather over the top fans. Some are just dreamers and others more practical. From the sampling so far this year, I think we might be a bit better, but with very many less wins relatively. That being said, my level of fandom is probably mentally unhealthy. But then again, I just saw a large redheaded pig fly past my window wearing a Bonner jersey...so ya never know...
I know what is important though, we need to murder the Jazz tomorrow night and step into 2012 on a good note. Happy New Year everyone!

[GSH]

Who did the late 80s championship Bad Boys have in the way of BIGS? Rick Mahorn? Bill Lambeer? a 6-7 Dennis Rodman? While that frontline is imposing and tough, I don't see it as more talented than TD - the best PF ever even if getting long in the tooth, Euro Ace Splitter, plus Blair/Kawhi. If anything it's a wash or slightly in favor of the Spurs. What I'm saying is yes, big men are important, but ours are pretty good as is, and our guard play is going to be BEAST!


The Pistons' third leading scorer was James Edwards - a 7-footer. Laimbeer was 6'11" and John Salley was 6'11". Rodman was an epic freak of nature at pulling down boards (and a much better defender than most people remember). And, yeah, if you told me that we could have a 29-30 year old Rick Mahorn as our fourth big, I'd be thrilled. The fact that you had to go back 20 years to even try and prove it isn't a big man's game says it all.

You're counting Kawhi Leonard as one of our bigs? I guess the totally delusional don't realize that they are totally delusional. Just as soon as Leonard averages 10+ boards per game (a bad year for Rodman), you might talk about including him on that list. But it won't be this year. This year we have three bigs - one aging, one soft, and one short. And the FO didn't accomplish anything to address it in the offseason. You're debating whether the sun came up in the East. Some things are just facts. Tim won't get younger, Blair won't get taller, we'll see about Splitter getting tougher - and Kawhi Leonard isn't a big.


BTW - on top of being a bruiser down low, Laimbeer jacked up about 150 3-pointers in the 1980 season, and made almost 40% of them. And in those championship seasons, Laimbeer played about 2700 minutes per season. The last time Duncan played 2700 minutes was in 06-07... the last time the Spurs won a championship.

[DrSteffo]

No. I have not predicted failure. I just haven't seen a reason to make a prediction. We are not currently a championship caliber squad. That doesn't mean we won't be, but I haven't seen anything to make me think we are.

Faith isn't required in professional sports. I can be a fan without being irrational or zealous. In fact, irrational zealotry is annoying and hard to converse with. You end up jousting windmills constructed of confirmation bias and cherry picking.

Good post. Also, if you care about a team you want them to be as good as possible. Why do I have to like the defence of Bonner and Blair? :flag:

[Calispursfan11]

The Pistons' third leading scorer was James Edwards - a 7-footer. Laimbeer was 6'11" and John Salley was 6'11". Rodman was an epic freak of nature at pulling down boards (and a much better defender than most people remember). And, yeah, if you told me that we could have a 29-30 year old Rick Mahorn as our fourth big, I'd be thrilled. The fact that you had to go back 20 years to even try and prove it isn't a big man's game says it allar we have three bigs - one aging, one soft, and one short. An
p.[/B]

Astounding use of Google. This must have taken you over an hour to put together. You seem to get your rocks off more by using Internet research to try to support that fellow fans "delusional". Bro, you are an angry dude with too much time on his hands. If you used more of that time for fandom rather than splooging over trying to make others look bad, your google research might be more palatable.

[DMC]

Astounding use of Google. This must have taken you over an hour to put together. You seem to get your rocks off more by using Internet research to try to support that fellow fans "delusional". Bro, you are an angry dude with too much time on his hands. If you used more of that time for fandom rather than splooging over trying to make others look bad, your google research might be more palatable.

Learn the difference between exuberance and stupidity.

[Calispursfan11]

Learn the difference between exuberance and stupidity.

DMc I respect your position and opinion in general. So your post saddens me a little. At least you did not resort to cutting and pasting from google while attempting this effective smackdown. But any dude who has to spend over an hour trying to orchestrate a smackdown through google on a board of allegedly fellow fans is plain ridiculous. If that makes him and others feel superior, then so be it. I think it's the wrong approach regardless of who is right on the facts.

[DMC]

DMc I respect your position and opinion in general. So your post saddens me a little. At least you did not resort to cutting and pasting from google while attempting this effective smackdown. But any dude who has to spend over an hour trying to orchestrate a smackdown through google on a board of allegedly fellow fans is plain ridiculous. If that makes him and others feel superior, then so be it. I think it's the wrong approach regardless of who is right on the facts.
I don't disagree with that, I guess, but when you make your case, just stand by it and be prepared to provide backup for it other than fan excitement.

It's not a family environment here. People will call you an idiot if you post goofy takes (not saying you did). I also wasn't calling you stupid. I was saying know the difference between being a zealous, blind faith team worshiper and a basketball fan.

[Calispursfan11]

I don't disagree with that, I guess, but when you make your case, just stand by it and be prepared to provide backup for it other than fan excitement.

It's not a family environment here. People will call you an idiot if you post goofy takes (not saying you did). I also wasn't calling you stupid. I was saying know the difference between being a zealous, blind faith team worshiper and a basketball fan.

That was a helpful post. I think I understand where you are coming from. Hence the respect. I am not always sunshine and rainbows but I think this years team is better than last year based upon a number of factors. We would immediately become mediocre if Manu gets injured, as shown in the first round last year. I don't have all the facts in front of me, but I do have what I believe to be a good basis for thinkng we have a chance. I am excited about that.

[GSH]

Astounding use of Google. This must have taken you over an hour to put together. You seem to get your rocks off more by using Internet research to try to support that fellow fans "delusional". Bro, you are an angry dude with too much time on his hands. If you used more of that time for fandom rather than splooging over trying to make others look bad, your google research might be more palatable.


You made a stupid fucking statement, and I corrected you. (I actually watched the Bad Boy Pistons play - unlike you.) Yep, I looked up the stats to back up what I believed, rather than just giving an unfounded opinion. I can understand why that would annoy someone like you. Facts just fuck up everything you stand for.

My mistake was forgetting that some delusional people enjoy their delusions, and don't like the medications that force them to deal with reality. Enjoy whatever planet you've created for yourself.

[BillMc]

My allegiance to the Spurs is undying. As long as there's even a slight chance I'm good. And when that chance is gone, I'll still be cheering

This

[Calispursfan11]

You made a stupid fucking statement, and I corrected you. (I actually watched the Bad Boy Pistons play - unlike you.) Yep, I looked up the stats to back up what I believed, rather than just giving an unfounded opinion. I can understand why that would annoy someone like you. Facts just fuck up everything you stand for.

My mistake was forgetting that some delusional people enjoy their delusions, and don't like the medications that force them to deal with reality. Enjoy whatever planet you've created for yourself.

This is great! Thanks for this post. It is clear that I have gotten under your skin. You've also proved my point that you are an angry dude. In addition, we now know that not only are you old (since you admit to watching the Bad Boys back in the day) but that you are a technologically advanced old fart who googles shit, not because he cares about civil and informatiive discussions about basketball, but because he is afraid that someone will call him out for lack of precise references when he is calling someone a stupid idiot (which obviously gets him off).