Dejuan Blair's improvement [Archive]

angelbelow

12-29-2011, 04:49 AM

I don't watch much college basketball. So when my friends who do told me Blair was a steal at 37th, I was instantly excited. After watching various youtube highlights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxxqEKssvgI), him displaying such intensity on the court and him saying things like "Spurs believed in me so I'm going to give them 1000%" made me a big fan of his. Ofcousre, longevity, size, and basketball IQ were always a concern.

After two seasons, his basketball IQ proved to be suspect at times and his maturity was a big question mark after last season. Truthfully, I wasn't very optimistic going into the season. After watching some of his training camp interviews, I realized that there was a good reason to be optimistic. He said all the right things.. be more mature, play more like the way he did at Pitt, play smarter defense etc.

While preseason showed that Blair may not have changed, the 2 regular season games showed us something entirely different. Two games in and hes showing confidence and more importantly patience on both ends of the floor. I know he picked up some cheap fouls but in the scenarios where he played smart defense, he was patient. Hes also doing a great job of establishing position both offensively and defensively. Something that was rare for him the past 2 years.. especially on defense. Maybe its his improved physique?

Do you guys expect him to keep this up? In this condensed season.. I certainly hope so. Especially defensively.. continue to rebound, not let players establish position so easily, putting a body on guys, not going for cheap fouls etc. On offense, I think if hes out there with Manu, he'll always have nice opportunities to score.

xellos88330

12-29-2011, 12:55 PM

Seeing him play well against those athletic freaks from Clipperdom, I am happy. He did as well as he could against Griffin defensively. I was worried that he would play too much with his hands and forget to move his body. The offense was a complete surprise. He was spacing his man really well to make room for the entry passes to him. When he had the ball, he was quick with his decisions. I guess he really was overthinking.

xellos88330

12-29-2011, 01:26 PM

I am excited about him showing a few basic post moves. He needs to drop 20lbs and it will make a heck of a diff, and extend his career. As a man with his size inside you have an advantage on offense if you learn the up and under, the back down and fade and a quick spin.

He also needs to stop reaching on D, again drop so lbs and this should not be a problem anymore. He could turn into a shorter ZBO with some work.

He doesn't need to be ZBo. He needs to be Blair.

urunobili

12-29-2011, 01:34 PM

he said he watches a lot of Barkley...v:wakeup

DMC

12-29-2011, 01:45 PM

His style of play, hectic and unorganized as it seems at times (maybe because it is) sometimes leads to good results. It also leads to bad results when he gets into foul trouble early on.

I know he's a ball of energy but when he gets a steal, he needs to recognize when he has an advantage and when he doesn't. He had Manu on the wing last night who could have finished but Blair went 1 on 3 to the rim. Maybe that takes time to gain court vision, and to know how to stay in rhythm during those almost unexpected moments.

I like that Pop wants him to just defend, and to accept that it's more important to remain on the floor than to get every stop or every rebound. Blair tries to do it all, but he's learning.

greyforest

12-29-2011, 01:46 PM

When the Spurs got to steal DJB in the draft I couldn't help but laugh. They did it again...

He was projected as a top 10 pick, but everyone passed due to his knee concerns.

rJcN_4-3J8Y
20g_R6qnYBA

Heh.

Seeing as how he's started a large portion of his career for a playoff-contending team, I'd say he was a good pick.

mingus

12-29-2011, 02:02 PM

I was at the game very close to the action and saw how well Blair uses his body now. He was moving guys around with his body creating space to get a shot up.

wildbill2u

12-29-2011, 03:34 PM

I am not a big fan of small centers. I've been critical of Blair's footspeed, shot, and maturity/dedication.

However, I want to be proved wrong.

Obstructed_View

12-29-2011, 04:29 PM

I am not a big fan of small centers. I've been critical of Blair's footspeed, shot, and maturity/dedication.

However, I want to be proved wrong.

Matt Bonner is 4 inches taller than Blair and is probably still the smallest center on the team.

TD 21

12-29-2011, 04:53 PM

Matt Bonner is 4 inches taller than Blair and is probably still the smallest center on the team.

If you go by their listings, he's actually three inches taller. Which seems about right.

Why are Blair and to a lesser extent, Bonner, still referred to by many as centers? I realize Blair is listed as the center in the box score, but so is everyone who's ever started next to Duncan. Even Jeremy Richardson, who started on Martin Luther King day in in '08 against the Bobcats, was listed as the center, despite the fact that he's a wing. The reality is, Duncan has been a full time center since '08.

spurspokesman

12-29-2011, 04:57 PM

Matt Bonner is 4 inches taller than Blair and is probably still the smallest center on the team.

This. Sad to see people nail Blair for his shortcomings due to height. Most should look at matt boners uselessness at his height. Flat out pathetic. That tall and can only shoot 3s. How did he make the NBA?

Obstructed_View

12-29-2011, 05:14 PM

If you go by their listings, he's actually three inches taller. Which seems about right.

Why are Blair and to a lesser extent, Bonner, still referred to by many as centers? I realize Blair is listed as the center in the box score, but so is everyone who's ever started next to Duncan. Even Jeremy Richardson, who started on Martin Luther King day in in '08 against the Bobcats, was listed as the center, despite the fact that he's a wing. The reality is, Duncan has been a full time center since '08.

The point I was attempting to make is that the measurement to the top of a player's head doesn't mean much. Blair has a taller standing reach than Bonner does, despite being 3 1/4"* shorter.

*since you decided to split hairs, I figured I'd actually post the correct difference in height. You seem to think it's important.

xellos88330

12-29-2011, 08:07 PM

What does that even mean? The man needs to improve, I would take a Zbo talent over Blair any day. Point being if Blair has any desire to be good he can be that type of player.

Or you must want him fat, foul prone with no offensive game right?

Anyone would take ZBo talent. Blair got into the NBA by playing like Blair, NOT Zbo. I would imagine the best thing for Blair would be to improve on his current skills and capabilities rather than force him to learn something new and watch him be mediocre in multiple areas. Develop his strengths, then address his weaknesses.

DMC

12-29-2011, 09:20 PM

Matt has never played a center's role.

NickiRasgo

12-29-2011, 09:52 PM

I remember this one when DB was still a rookie:

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No TP and Duncan on that game I think.

Manufan909

12-29-2011, 11:09 PM

2nd stellar game from Blair, against Scola and Dalembert to boot. Hope he only improves during the rest of the season.

Hooks

12-30-2011, 08:59 AM

I'm just hoping his production just isn't because other guys really aren't in shape. He did show he was capable of playing this well last year when he was starting, he definitely seems like he's under more control and is using his body extremely well to score. His biceps/triceps look considerably bigger, when he shed all that weight last year it looked like it actually hurt him a bit, he wasnt able to really back guys down and it definitely looked like guys were backing him down with ease compared to his first season where he was a brick wall and wouldn't budge.

Giuseppe

12-30-2011, 09:21 AM

When he grows 6 inches let me know.

I'll be downstairs polishing the Trademark Kori bestowed upon me.

Hooks

12-30-2011, 09:52 AM

When he grows 6 inches let me know.

I'll be downstairs polishing the Trademark Kori bestowed upon me.

Chupa la verga maricon.

Respect

12-30-2011, 11:03 AM

Agreed, this year he has shown some improvement, but the fact, remains that he is still 6-7 inches too small.

I've been a big fan since his days at Pitt, and was shocked when we were lucky enough to pick him up in the draft. So during him improve this season is promising, but without another solid big (bearing in mind we lost Antonio due to retirement) he will continue to be critisized and scrutinized...

Obstructed_View

12-30-2011, 11:45 AM

The only thing preventing Blair from being a lottery pick was his knees. Since his knees aren't an issue, it's time to realize that he's a legitimate NBA big.

Amuseddaysleeper

12-30-2011, 12:05 PM

The only thing preventing Blair from being a lottery pick was his knees. Since his knees aren't an issue, it's time to realize that he's a legitimate NBA big off the bench.

Fixed.

elemento

12-30-2011, 12:08 PM

To me he looks the same. We could say he had a small improvement, but nothing has changed.

Great guy to come off the bench as an energy guy with a nice touch to score around the basket. Still, he lacks post moves or a face-up game and his defense is still horrible.

timvp

12-30-2011, 12:18 PM

I wanted Blair to come off the bench before the season began but I'm more than satisfied with his play as a starter. And with Splitter dominating off the bench, there's really no reason to make a change now.

Blair and Splitter are both thriving in their spot in the rotation. The problem areas are elsewhere. Unless something drastic changes, there's no reason to Pop to shakeup the top three spots of the bigman rotation.

DMC

12-30-2011, 12:20 PM

cantthinkofanything

12-30-2011, 12:22 PM

The only thing preventing Blair from being a lottery pick was his knees. Since his knees aren't an issue, it's time to realize that he's a legitimate NBA big.

Obviously he's a legit NBA player but I'd hate to have used a lottery pick on him. I doubt that any GM would have made that gamble...regardless of his knees.

DMC

12-30-2011, 12:27 PM

Obviously he's a legit NBA player but I'd hate to have used a lottery pick on him. I doubt that any GM would have made that gamble...regardless of his knees.
That's insane. Guy is a potential 20/10 guy. He might not develop into it, but he's got intangibles you don't often see.

cantthinkofanything

12-30-2011, 12:50 PM

That's insane. Guy is a potential 20/10 guy. He might not develop into it, but he's got intangibles you don't often see.

you don't get to 20/10 on intangibles. I like him as a player but he's not Barkley. I'd be happy if he's Maxiell or Millsap. Which I think he can be close to.

DMC

12-30-2011, 01:26 PM

you don't get to 20/10 on intangibles. I like him as a player but he's not Barkley. I'd be happy if he's Maxiell or Millsap. Which I think he can be close to.

Really? So what makes Zbo and Kevin Love effective? Is it awareness and the other "intangibles"? They aren't physically imposing.

Hooks

12-30-2011, 01:32 PM

I think his peak as an nba player is around 16ppg and 10 RPGs, and that's if he develops a jump shot. Who knows how long he's going to last with in the nba with the way his knees are.

AFBlue

12-30-2011, 03:02 PM

He seems to have made the adjustment to taller defenders by using his wide body and adding some quick-release shots, so there's definitely improvement. Having said that, he still hasn't developed a reliable jumpshot out to 15 feet or go-to moves in the post (back to the basket).

I think he's still capable of more growth skill-wise, but he's proven he can be a contributor right now, as long as he stays in shape and continues to bring max effort.

jjktkk

12-30-2011, 03:11 PM

I really don't get how people think a player can change just because a new season started. I can see if they improved their shot over the summer, worked with coaches and trainers, but that really didn't happen this summer. Blair did work on his shot, sure, but there was a lock out, so it's basically like taking a nap and expecting to be smarter when you wake up.

Really? For young, immature, players, this is pretty common. They growup, mature, the light comes on, etc... Still way too early to say Blair has turned the corner, but I'm liking what I've seen so far.

z0sa

12-30-2011, 03:15 PM

Blair could be a 20/10 guy in 2-3 years. Post Timmy D, I could see it happening. He just won't get the touches or responsibility til then.

Obstructed_View

12-30-2011, 03:29 PM

I should be fixed.

There.

Amuseddaysleeper

12-30-2011, 03:30 PM

:lol

ElNono

12-30-2011, 03:31 PM

He looks the same as last season to me

Obstructed_View

12-30-2011, 03:32 PM

Blair could be a 20/10 guy in 2-3 years. Post Timmy D, I could see it happening. He just won't get the touches or responsibility til then.

Blair could be a 20/10 guy right now. He's starting, and he's playing well. Give him 30 minutes a night.

Obstructed_View

12-30-2011, 03:32 PM

:lol

:toast

Obstructed_View

12-30-2011, 03:34 PM

Actually, now that I think about it, if you give him ten of Bonner's minutes, you solve two problems. The new problem that pops up is if he can stay out of foul trouble in 30 minutes a night. This team's been far too scared of foul trouble the last few years.

Amuseddaysleeper

12-30-2011, 03:34 PM

z0sa

12-30-2011, 03:34 PM

Blair could be a 20/10 guy right now. He's starting, and he's playing well. Give him 30 minutes a night.

I agree. But that depends on Pop. I don't see him "allowing" Blair to get the shots for 20 a night.

ChuckD

12-30-2011, 03:39 PM

Blair has always been able to play this way. As a rook, he was in the top 10 in rebs/36. His isssue has ALWAYS been about the ability to stay on the floor, whether about fouls or defensive lapses.

As a rook, I was surprised at his nose for the ball, and the ability to be in the right place at the right time. He is not seven foot tall, but he is a fucking basketball player, unlike Ajinca, Mahinmi, etc. Give me that any day. You can take someone tall, and teach them the rules, but that's like learning chess at 30 instead of 8. You can learn the moves, but you'll never be great.

Obstructed_View

12-30-2011, 03:42 PM

For the record OV, I have no issues with Blair starting right now, I just don't know if come playoff time I'd be comfortable with a 6'7 starting center/PF. But then again, if he's producing his current numbers it may not be so terrible.

I'd love to see Splitter/Duncan start for the playoffs, but I understand that can't happen without a decent 5th big.

With all due respect, you guys really need to take a step back and look at what Blair is instead of fixating on what he isn't. Get the fuck over his height, because it has zero to do with his standing reach or his vert or his ability to defend or his production on the floor. Having a guy who's five inches taller with the exact same standing reach who can't play basketball isn't that useful in his place. Charles Barkley played power forward for years at a high level and he's a lot shorter than Blair is.

In case you're snickering under your breath at the mention of Barkley, not only are Blair's current numbers "not so terrible", but his per 36 minutes are insane, so there's really no reason not to give him a few more minutes and see how he can do. He's going to have Duncan or Splitter next to him most of the time. I'm all for a guy to take minutes from Bonner, but I'm also all for just letting Bonner soak up whatever minutes he can and then shortening him out of the rotation for the playoffs. I'm also in favor of someone to serve as injury insurance, but you aren't going to get one of those guys without a trade. In the meantime, recognize that Blair is in shape, playing hard and producing on both ends of the floor.

The Spurs killed the two big teams they faced and got blown out by the one with no size on their front line.

DMC

12-30-2011, 03:54 PM

Really? For young, immature, players, this is pretty common. They growup, mature, the light comes on, etc... Still way too early to say Blair has turned the corner, but I'm liking what I've seen so far.
There's no invisible line they cross in the off season. The maturity can happen during the season as well.

Amuseddaysleeper

12-30-2011, 04:10 PM

With all due respect, you guys really need to take a step back and look at what Blair is instead of fixating on what he isn't. Get the fuck over his height, because it has zero to do with his standing reach or his vert or his ability to defend or his production on the floor. Having a guy who's five inches taller with the exact same standing reach who can't play basketball isn't that useful in his place. Charles Barkley played power forward for years at a high level and he's a lot shorter than Blair is.

In case you're snickering under your breath at the mention of Barkley, not only are Blair's current numbers "not so terrible", but his per 36 minutes are insane, so there's really no reason not to give him a few more minutes and see how he can do. He's going to have Duncan or Splitter next to him most of the time. I'm all for a guy to take minutes from Bonner, but I'm also all for just letting Bonner soak up whatever minutes he can and then shortening him out of the rotation for the playoffs. I'm also in favor of someone to serve as injury insurance, but you aren't going to get one of those guys without a trade. In the meantime, recognize that Blair is in shape, playing hard and producing on both ends of the floor.

The Spurs killed the two big teams they faced and got blown out by the one with no size on their front line.

If Blair could be a poor man's Barkley, I'd be happy, and once again I have no problem with him starting right now. I just think we have too small of a sample size to really see if Blair has turned the corner. I love that he's starting to back down his defender and use his size to get to certain spots near the basket, but I'll be very curious to see if he continues this production into March/April.

His defense is also suspect, and yes, he is playing hard and producing on both ends of the floor for now, but even the two big teams they've faced are very rusty and may not round into form until February.

You've made several great points, and I'm ecstatic with how Blair has been playing. I just don't know if he is going to be the answer for the starting spot near playoff time. Still very early, and I'd love to be proven wrong.

Hooks

12-30-2011, 04:14 PM

Yeah Blair showed flashes the past two years of being a really good player, I think them trading hill changed him mentally and made him grow up. He looks a lot stronger, he's running the floor much better and is using his body very well to score, and he's knocking down his shots. Dude played good when he was starting last year until he was benched in the LA game everything went down from there.

DMC

12-30-2011, 04:37 PM

WeNeedLength

12-30-2011, 04:47 PM

His offense will develop but the defense is what he really needs to bite down and work on. If he could replicate the defense that Chuck Hayes plays, (who's even 1 inch shorter than Blair and ~15lb less) he would be a very solid player with a much higher offensive potential than Hayes. Although it is such a short sample of games, I see this season being a good one for Blair. Unless of course Bonner starts making some 3s and then Pop starts giving him some of Blair's minutes. If that happens I will have to shoot myself in the face with a crossbow...

Imp23

12-30-2011, 07:39 PM

Blair really wants to start so I see him putting in wk.

pgardn

12-30-2011, 07:41 PM

He has learned to use his body.

But he is still too fat. He is very strong, just a little bit better foot movement when he starts tiring would help with the stupid fouls that get him set down.

And it all comes down to weight.

Imo we will not see what he can really do until he loses weight. How about avg. a little over 30 min per game with the ability to go further? Maybe Georgie leaving means Blair will stop raping the Philly cheese steak. 15- 25 lbs would most likely do wonders for his game.

angelbelow

12-30-2011, 07:58 PM

Blair definitely played well last night, a 20 and 10 effort is always nice production. He made a few bad fouls and some lazy defensive possessions but overall another positive game.

Dalembert really looked like he was having his way with Blair for awhile, altering/blocking most of his attempts. But as the game went on, Blair got better and better at playing against him. Good sign.

His -28 is pretty eye popping, but then again, no one outside of him and Splitter really looked good in quarters 1-3. And Houston just happened to be on absolute fire. KL did okay given it was his first time playing a volume scorer like Kevin Martin that wasn't coming off major surgery (Like Rudy Gay.) Danny Green's effort was fun to watch, he was playing hard defense, crashing the boards, and making shots.

I'm sure Blair wouldn't mind putting up 20 and 10 again, but I really hope the other guys, especially Timmay (and Bonner lol) are rested for the next game.

therealtruth

12-30-2011, 08:15 PM

mystargtr34

12-30-2011, 10:46 PM

I think Blair is showing exactly why he should be coming of the bench. He should be able to pretty much dominate the opposing bench's frontline. Yet for the starting lineup the Spurs need more defense and the guy who has the best post defense is Splitter. It will also allow more shots for TP/Manu/RJ to get going. TD and Splitter can score of opportunities created of those 3 and mismatches with shorter players.

Thats a really good observation. Starting Blair and bringing Splitter of the bench is almost 'wasting' their strengths. DB's strength is offense.. when he's starting its hard for him to take full advantage of that because hes facing the bigger and better defensive bigmen which is why you see him taking and missing alot of flip shots.. he can really only score consistently against the starting lineup off of open layups off feeds from team mates. On the other hand..his weakness is defense and thats being exposed even more by him starting because hes forced to guard the best opposition bigman.

Splitter on the other hand.. cant take advantage offensively against bench players because hes forced to post up instead of finish pick and rolls since their isnt that level of playmaking off the bench. And defensively his talents are minimised by guarding less offensively talented bench players instead of limiting the oppositions best bigman, or at least not allow them to get going the way they do against Blair. Even Tim's individual one-on-one defense has dropped to 'average'.. he can no longer stop guys from scoring consistently. Hes still a great team defender though.

Its probably another reason to shit on Matt Bonner tbh.. since he's the reason Tiago isnt starting.. Pop is afraid of the turd towers of Blair and Bonner.. because theyre so shit defensively.

If/once another bigman is signed.. it would be a tragedy if Splitter is still on the bench while opposition big men are having field days to start the game. Even now.. i would start him and bring Bonner and Blair against the bench scrubs who wont punish you anywhere near as much. It would make life a hell of alot easier for the Spurs.. and especially Timmy.

/end butthurt rant.

therealtruth

12-30-2011, 11:21 PM

cantthinkofanything

12-31-2011, 12:52 AM

Really? So what makes Zbo and Kevin Love effective? Is it awareness and the other "intangibles"? They aren't physically imposing.

They both just have something that's hard to put a finger on.

TJastal

12-31-2011, 04:23 AM

I think if Kawhi can play a small ball 4 like Marion used to in Phoenix it will allow Tiago to start and limit Bonner/Blair combinations. Marion was an allstar as a small ball power forward. Kawhi has the length to be able to do it.

Marion was also taller, hella stronger, & a hella more athletic. KL would be overpowered in the post and paint by most backup power forwards.

venitian navigator

12-31-2011, 04:52 AM

therealtruth

12-31-2011, 05:27 AM

Blair would be perfect coming from the bench, but not in the actual situation...simply 'cause he can't be paired with Bonner.
That's why we need another big as a fourth option.
I'm scared that, considering the skills of Mahinmi (high and quick, and good defensive player also if he was foul prone) he could have been the guy...(and now looks like he's plaiying decently for Dallas).
However, that kind of skills is what we need for pairing him with Blair...that's why, some times ago, I liked the idea of trading Dice contract for Thabeet.

You just hope if Pop is going to make the move he makes it as soon as possible. The team still needs another big regardless. Another advantage of starting Tiago and Tim is the defenders can play more aggressive on the perimeter since they know they're backed by two shotblockers.

Obstructed_View

12-31-2011, 06:02 AM

As a starter when he gets 30 minutes or more, Blair averages 15 points and 14 rebounds per game on 53 percent shooting. The only game he fouled out of was the one where he had 28 points and 21 rebounds.

ChuckD

12-31-2011, 10:38 AM

Marion was also taller, hella stronger, & a hella more athletic. KL would be overpowered in the post and paint by most backup power forwards.

Kawhi is 6'7" 225, Shawn Marion is 6'7" 228, and not even a smidgen stronger or more athletic than KL.

Tyrone Jenkins

12-31-2011, 10:56 AM

Kawhi is 6'7" 225, Shawn Marion is 6'7" 228, and not even a smidgen stronger or more athletic than KL.

Kawhi was drafted to play the 3 and 4. That was why they went w/ him over someone like Chris Singleton (who is 1 inch taller and just as defensive minded but w/ limited PF skills).

Kawhi actually fills the role of a PF more than he does a SF for the Spurs. A Spurs SF isn't a SF at all, he's actually a taller, defensive minded SG who can catch and shoot the 3 on offense and shut down/contain the likes of Kobe, Durant, Chandler, etc.

I notice one of the issues a lot of fans (not just Spurs fans but fans in general) have is mistaking size/height w/ position. Jalen Rose and Magic Johnson were both 6'9" but were POINT GUARDS.

The players SKILL SET determines their offensive position.

DeJuan Blair is an undersized PF/C. Matt Bonner is a bigger SG. And Kawhi Leonard, in the Spurs system, is more of a PF on offense and a SF on defense.

therealtruth

12-31-2011, 12:08 PM

Kawhi is 6'7" 225, Shawn Marion is 6'7" 228, and not even a smidgen stronger or more athletic than KL.

If you look on draftexpress Marion is about 6'7 barefoot while Kawhi is 6'7 in shoes.

AFBlue

12-31-2011, 02:09 PM

I don't care what draft measurements say. I've seen Leonard up close and I think he definitely has the size and strength to bang in the post. Dude looked to be at least 235-240 when I saw him.

AFBlue

12-31-2011, 02:12 PM

On Blair coming off the bench, I just dont think he's that good offensively...to be a go-to guy. He also has great chemistry with the starting unit, which I think leads to a lot of his opportunities. I definitely think he's where he belongs given his skill-set and the team's make-up.

Hooks

12-31-2011, 02:25 PM

I don't care what draft measurements say. I've seen Leonard up close and I think he definitely has the size and strength to bang in the post. Dude looked to be at least 235-240 when I saw him.

His weight in the combine was 225 but he was quoted as saying that he had put on 15lbs of muscle during the off season making him around 240 which is just as big as most PF's in the NBA.

itzsoweezee

12-31-2011, 03:23 PM

If Popovich replaces Leonard in the rotation for Bonner, then he'd have all kinds of rotation options, including starting Splitter.

His stubborn, and stupid, devotion to Bonner is really hurting this team. Reduce Bonner's minutes to less than 10 a game, reduce Duncan's minutes to about 25 game, and give Splitter, Blair, and Leonard a ton of minutes (30+ a game). That would be a great frontline rotation, with a ton of rebounds and better defense than a Bonner-included rotation.

Obstructed_View

12-31-2011, 03:34 PM

If you look on draftexpress Marion is about 6'7 barefoot while Kawhi is 6'7 in shoes.

Really interesting. Other people have the Internets too. Draftexpress shows Leonard a half inch shorter without shoes. This is the second time you've lied in a post. Makes your name super funny.

therealtruth

12-31-2011, 05:52 PM

Really interesting. Other people have the Internets too. Draftexpress shows Leonard a half inch shorter without shoes. This is the second time you've lied in a post. Makes your name super funny.

With shoes the difference is 3/4 of an inch.

Em-City

12-31-2011, 06:46 PM

RuffnReadyOzStyle

12-31-2011, 07:16 PM

Great start from Grizzly. Looks like he's learned the game. :)

I'm loving the development of our youngsters - Grizz, Splitter, JA, Kawahi all looking strong in early play.

angelbelow

12-31-2011, 07:22 PM

I don't doubt that Blair can put up 20/10 consistently this season, given the opportunity.

What i'm concerned about is his defense and whether those 20 pts will be cancelled out by his efforts on the other end - especially against bigger front lines.

having said that, I'm looking forward to see how blair grows during the regular season and whether he shows that he deserves big playoff minutes

Agreed. The 20/10 would be great just from a pure consistency and production stand point, since all teams could use a 20 and 10 guy. If we can rely on Blair to produce 20 consistently, that takes a ton of pressure off of our big 3.

The real question is whether that will hurt his individual defense and our team defense. Does Blair give up 20 to the opponent while he gets his 20? If so, that wouldn't be a good trade. So would Blair averaging 20/10 actually help the team? Blair's young, so I don't mind him pushing himself.. if he can get the 20/10 while playing focused, and smart defense, then that would be fucking fantastic.

Obstructed_View

12-31-2011, 07:40 PM

Agreed. The 20/10 would be great just from a pure consistency and production stand point, since all teams could use a 20 and 10 guy. If we can rely on Blair to produce 20 consistently, that takes a ton of pressure off of our big 3.

The real question is whether that will hurt his individual defense and our team defense. Does Blair give up 20 to the opponent while he gets his 20? If so, that wouldn't be a good trade. So would Blair averaging 20/10 actually help the team? Blair's young, so I don't mind him pushing himself.. if he can get the 20/10 while playing focused, and smart defense, then that would be fucking fantastic.

OMG this is the craziest thing I've ever read. I cannot believe you people would wonder if Blair putting up 20 and 10 would be good for the team and do it with a straight face. There's a reason DB led the entire nation in PER in college, better than Blake Griffin, better than Stephen Curry.

Blair is in shape, he's interested in playing. The only danger this team has is not keeping him interested by not letting him be himself. There's a fucking reason he goes into beast mode in exhibition games. Let the kid loose.

Spurs da champs

12-31-2011, 07:43 PM

It's been 3 games don't get too happy & houston was basically garbage time.

mystargtr34

12-31-2011, 07:56 PM

Blair average 20-10? Come on now.

pgardn

12-31-2011, 08:34 PM

Blair is a junk man. I could never see running an offense through him. He is best cleaning up messes without having to think.

The only way he gets 10 rebs per game is if he plays 30 min. and over per game. I could never see him averaging 20 pts for an entire season. He just does not have the skill set.

Two things I would like to see. 1.Cut some weight. 2. Better hands (which are tremendously strong) #1 is easy, dont know how to get #2 done.

Actually #1 might be really difficult for him as well. Although I doubt he is going boxer mode, trying to cut weight to make a pay day. Its clear losing weight will not result in him burning muscle. There is a layer there that can go away.

Em-City

12-31-2011, 09:01 PM

OMG this is the craziest thing I've ever read. I cannot believe you people would wonder if Blair putting up 20 and 10 would be good for the team and do it with a straight face. There's a reason DB led the entire nation in PER in college, better than Blake Griffin, better than Stephen Curry.

Blair is in shape, he's interested in playing. The only danger this team has is not keeping him interested by not letting him be himself. There's a fucking reason he goes into beast mode in exhibition games. Let the kid loose.

Just a scenario... Would u feel the same way about bonner getting 38mins a game and going 20&10?

ChuckD

12-31-2011, 09:25 PM

Just a scenario... Would u feel the same way about bonner getting 38mins a game and going 20&10?

Bonner could never avg 10 rebounds in 38 minutes.

Em-City

12-31-2011, 09:29 PM

I know... But lets say he could, for hypotheses' sake

The Truth #6

12-31-2011, 09:34 PM

I think Bonner is averaging something like 0.3 rebounds per game. TD can't even average a 20/10 anymore. I don't see how the Spurs could complain if any of their players average that. Bonner's defense already sucks and he plays too many minutes. Bonner with a 20/10 and his same bad defense....that would be a godsend.

Em-City

12-31-2011, 10:00 PM

Nvm... Blair playing pretty good today, showing some patience too :thumbs up:

Obstructed_View

12-31-2011, 10:25 PM

Just a scenario... Would u feel the same way about bonner getting 38mins a game and going 20&10?

Matt Bonner's per 36 minutes rebounding this season is less than 1. Therefore Matt would have to play over six hours of basketball per game to average 10 rebounds. DeJuan Blair's per 36 this season are 27 points and 11 rebounds. Nobody's this stupid, so I'm assuming you're being obtuse for some reason. I fail to see what's so dramatic about letting Blair play ten more of Bonner's minutes. In what way do you guys think the defense is going to suddenly drop off by not having Matt Bonner playing?

angelbelow

12-31-2011, 10:26 PM

OMG this is the craziest thing I've ever read. I cannot believe you people would wonder if Blair putting up 20 and 10 would be good for the team and do it with a straight face. There's a reason DB led the entire nation in PER in college, better than Blake Griffin, better than Stephen Curry.

Blair is in shape, he's interested in playing. The only danger this team has is not keeping him interested by not letting him be himself. There's a fucking reason he goes into beast mode in exhibition games. Let the kid loose.

It sounds like you're the crazy one. Blair has no knees, hes short, has too many tattoos and he has a rap video out. I say we waive him and pray that the Mavericks or the Heat pick him up so he can be cancerous to them too. Am I preaching to the choir yet?

angelbelow

12-31-2011, 10:43 PM

Blair with another solid double double. He looked good during the 4th while everyone else looked stagnant.

Obstructed_View

12-31-2011, 10:44 PM

30 minutes, 17 points and 10 rebounds. Imagine that.

Bill_Brasky

12-31-2011, 10:50 PM

NO MORE Turd Tower talk.

ducks

12-31-2011, 10:51 PM

wonder what blair will command when he is a fa

LaMarcus Bryant

12-31-2011, 11:12 PM

I'm gonna have to agree with The Obstructed View on this one!!!

Manu-of-steel

12-31-2011, 11:21 PM

Nice game again by Blair..

peskypesky

12-31-2011, 11:31 PM

Liking what Dejuan is bringing.

ezau

12-31-2011, 11:43 PM

I can't believe people here are complaining of DB's production. When was the last time that we had a consistent double-double guy? I know people are longing for TD's consistency during his younger years, but we have to accept that DB is slowly becoming the team's best big at this point. I'm not saying that he's now better than Duncan, but it's going to be inevitable that DB will surpass Duncan in one or two years. That's just the way it is in basketball.

I just love how DB is slowly reaching his full potential. The kid somewhat struggled in his first two years with the team, but he's now learned and realized the advantages of using his stocky frame in the league. I'm just hoping he continues this so we don't have to rely on the BIG THREE a lot.

DMC

01-01-2012, 12:03 AM

NO MORE Turd Tower talk.
No, we still have a turd tower, it just stands alone with an orange glow atop it (and it's not the UT tower).

angelbelow

01-01-2012, 12:14 AM

Bill_Brasky

01-01-2012, 12:18 AM

No, we still have a turd tower, it just stands alone with an orange glow atop it (and it's not the UT tower).

Yeah that's what I meant:lol

Capt Bringdown

01-01-2012, 12:20 AM

NO MORE Turd Tower talk.

Blair also looked wonderful early last year, and we know how that ended.
I still don't see him as a plus against the better teams of the league. He cannot hold his own defensively, and his offensive "game" is strictly scrub.
A nice energy player and regular-season stat-padder for sure, but with very limited upside as a starter and/or go-to rotation asset when it counts.

AFBlue

01-01-2012, 12:31 AM

Blair also looked wonderful early last year, and we know how that ended.
I still don't see him as a plus against the better teams of the league. He cannot hold his own defensively, and his offensive "game" is strictly scrub.
A nice energy player and regular-season stat-padder for sure, but with very limited upside as a starter and/or go-to rotation asset when it counts.

The truth is somewhere between your take and the "20/10" crowd. Blair has more offensive game than you give him credit for, but he still lacks the skill to be a "go-to" big. As far as his defensive ability, he just needs to keep his weight down. He'll probably always gamble, but as long as he has the footspeed to recover to a neutral defensive position he'll be alright.

ezau

01-01-2012, 12:37 AM

AFBlue

01-01-2012, 12:40 AM

DB lost his rhythm last year because POP replaced him with Dice weeks before the start of the playoffs.

He lost his rythym because he was carrying an extra 35 pounds.

Obstructed_View

01-01-2012, 12:57 AM

He lost his rythym because he was carrying an extra 35 pounds.

Don't think that happened until after he lost his job. Am I wrong?

AFBlue

01-01-2012, 01:07 AM

Don't think that happened until after he lost his job. Am I wrong?

Lost his starting job in early March and the Spurs got booted in mid-April. If he gained 35 pounds in a little over a month, that's ridiculously awful. I didn't catch a lot of the games last year, but isn't it more likely his weight gain led to the poor play and was a leading factor for him losing his job?

Capt Bringdown

01-01-2012, 01:10 AM

The truth is somewhere between your take and the "20/10" crowd. Blair has more offensive game than you give him credit for, but he still lacks the skill to be a "go-to" big. As far as his defensive ability, he just needs to keep his weight down. He'll probably always gamble, but as long as he has the footspeed to recover to a neutral defensive position he'll be alright.

I have no problem with Blair filling a Malik Rose type of role (the pre-big contract Malik Rose - and not the headcase he eventually became).
Foot speed will not compensate for lack of height and lateral mobility - he's always going to be a defensive liability against the league's better front lines.
Pop is oversold on Blair.

dylankerouac

01-01-2012, 01:14 AM

NO MORE Turd Tower talk.

This.

He is giving the Spurs solid production and work. And what I see and not feel is that he is going to work down low. He may not be a top 10 greatest player for what seems like the most spoiled fans of all time but he is putting a hurting and doing work on opposing teams. They will remember him.

Obstructed_View

01-01-2012, 01:20 AM

Lost his starting job in early March and the Spurs got booted in mid-April. If he gained 35 pounds in a little over a month, that's ridiculously awful. I didn't catch a lot of the games last year, but isn't it more likely his weight gain led to the poor play and was a leading factor for him losing his job?

Oh, didn't know 35 pounds was an actual figure, but if you look at his stats by month he was playing great up until the day he was yanked, so I don't think his physical conditioning had anything to do with it. Surely it had nothing to do with losing to the Lakers in his last start, right? Ginobili, Duncan and Jefferson combined for 9 points that game, and somehow it was Blair's fat ass that caused them to lose the game? He averaged 9 points and 9 rebounds per game during his last three starts.

DMC

01-01-2012, 01:22 AM

Oh, didn't know 35 pounds was an actual figure, but if you look at his stats by month he was playing great up until the day he was yanked, so I don't think his physical conditioning had anything to do with it. Surely it had nothing to do with losing to the Lakers in his last start, right? Ginobili, Duncan and Jefferson combined for 9 points that game, and somehow it was Blair's fat ass that caused them to lose the game? He averaged 9 points and 9 rebounds per game during his last three starts.
Well if you watched the games you saw that Blair was always out of position on defense, lost on offense and a good number of his stats came from cleanup.

Stats don't tell everything, otherwise KLove would be the best player in the league and Bonner's +8 against Houston would mean he's a plus.

Obstructed_View

01-01-2012, 01:44 AM

Well if you watched the games you saw that Blair was always out of position on defense, lost on offense and a good number of his stats came from cleanup.

Stats don't tell everything, otherwise KLove would be the best player in the league and Bonner's +8 against Houston would mean he's a plus.

Translation: You have conclusions that in no way can be backed up by stats.

The Spurs had the best record in the league, the best point differential in the league and Blair was putting up solid numbers as the starting center yet he sucked so bad in ways that only you observed that Pop had to put Dice in to take his place, and it wasn't at all overreaction to losing to the Lakers. The fact that the team barely played .500 ball the rest of the season is is also irrelevant to your previous conclusion, I take it?

DMC

01-01-2012, 02:32 AM

Translation: You have conclusions that in no way can be backed up by stats.

The Spurs had the best record in the league, the best point differential in the league and Blair was putting up solid numbers as the starting center yet he sucked so bad in ways that only you observed that Pop had to put Dice in to take his place, and it wasn't at all overreaction to losing to the Lakers. The fact that the team barely played .500 ball the rest of the season is is also irrelevant to your previous conclusion, I take it?

No. Translation: Tim Duncan injured his ankle, was out for some time, we went on a 6 game skid.

Of course, Blair's stats won't show that.

AFBlue

01-01-2012, 02:33 AM

Oh, didn't know 35 pounds was an actual figure, but if you look at his stats by month he was playing great up until the day he was yanked, so I don't think his physical conditioning had anything to do with it. Surely it had nothing to do with losing to the Lakers in his last start, right? Ginobili, Duncan and Jefferson combined for 9 points that game, and somehow it was Blair's fat ass that caused them to lose the game? He averaged 9 points and 9 rebounds per game during his last three starts.

The "chicken or egg" bickering about which came first (i.e. fat or sat) is really a moot point. Blair is more effective, especially defensively, when he's in shape. So far he seems motivated to stay that way, and I'm hopeful there's been personal growth to put that responsibility solely on his shoulders.

analyzed

01-01-2012, 02:38 AM

Bliar will avg more points than TD this regular season , fact or fiction? I say fact. So far he has shown the ability to score down low . unfortunately TD no longer can score over his man, but relies purely on jumpers

Obstructed_View

01-01-2012, 03:06 AM

No. Translation: Tim Duncan injured his ankle, was out for some time, we went on a 6 game skid.

Of course, Blair's stats won't show that.

You tying Duncan hurting his ankle after Blair lost his starting job to "Blair was always out of position on defense, lost on offense and a good number of his stats came from cleanup" should be very entertaining.

Obstructed_View

01-01-2012, 03:07 AM

The "chicken or egg" bickering about which came first (i.e. fat or sat) is really a moot point. Blair is more effective, especially defensively, when he's in shape. So far he seems motivated to stay that way, and I'm hopeful there's been personal growth to put that responsibility solely on his shoulders.

I can agree with that.

mystargtr34

01-01-2012, 05:15 AM

Blair definately looks different this season.. he even looks like he has a go to move now where he uses his ass to move his defender out of the way in one-on-ones situations. Crow is tasting good tbh.

Having said that.. ill reserve full judgement on him starting until the Spurs have faced some of the better teams in the league. Still cant afford to let opposition bigmen get going early with easy baskets.. or the rest of the starting lineup with layups drills to the basket. Especially now that Tim struggles to guard anybody one on one anymore.

therealtruth

01-01-2012, 05:18 AM

Translation: You have conclusions that in no way can be backed up by stats.

The Spurs had the best record in the league, the best point differential in the league and Blair was putting up solid numbers as the starting center yet he sucked so bad in ways that only you observed that Pop had to put Dice in to take his place, and it wasn't at all overreaction to losing to the Lakers. The fact that the team barely played .500 ball the rest of the season is is also irrelevant to your previous conclusion, I take it?

I definitely think Pop overreacted to the Lakers game. It was a confidence crusher. He had been saying all along the Lakers were better then the Lakers came along and crushed them from the tip.

Obstructed_View

01-01-2012, 10:32 AM

I definitely think Pop overreacted to the Lakers game. It was a confidence crusher. He had been saying all along the Lakers were better then the Lakers came along and crushed them from the tip.

The Spurs had beaten the stuffing out of the Lakers in the first game, and then Dice had the tip in on the second. Laker nation was in a frenzy, and everyone knew they were mad and treating that third game like their super bowl. In fact, it was probably the best effort that Lakers team gave the entire season, including the playoffs. The Spurs knew it was just another regular season game against a non-division opponent who they'd beaten twice, so they didn't really show up. As you said, Pop had given them an excuse for not showing up by treating the Lakers like something special. He put them in a losing frame of mind, and then fatally disrupted the team afterward.

Phil Jackson didn't win a title, but he clearly mind fucked Popovich into ruining the Spurs last year. Pop was afraid to try for the best record against the Lakers which led to Manu's injury in the Phoenix game.

TDMVPDPOY

01-01-2012, 11:28 AM

Blair contract year?

DMC

01-01-2012, 11:58 AM

You tying Duncan hurting his ankle after Blair lost his starting job to "Blair was always out of position on defense, lost on offense and a good number of his stats came from cleanup" should be very entertaining.

I don't need to tie two unrelated issues.

Perhaps the "translation" part is what muddied that.

You said:

"The Spurs had the best record in the league, the best point differential in the league and Blair was putting up solid numbers as the starting center yet he sucked so bad in ways that only you observed that Pop had to put Dice in to take his place, and it wasn't at all overreaction to losing to the Lakers. The fact that the team barely played .500 ball the rest of the season is is also irrelevant to your previous conclusion, I take it?"

so I said:

"Tim Duncan injured his ankle, was out for some time, we went on a 6 game skid.

Of course, Blair's stats won't show that."

I already told you how I knew Blair was out of position on both ends.

Also, I am not the only one who observed it. Pop observed it. There were several threads from that period where posters here also observed it. I suggest you go back and check them out. Your name is in a few of them, and I don't recall you having the same objections.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164723&highlight=Blair

You might start there.

Obstructed_View

01-01-2012, 01:04 PM

So I guess you stand by your conclusion that the Spurs' terrible play at the end of the season had everything to do with Timmy hurting his ankle and nothing at all to do with replacing the starting center and cutting his minutes. The Spurs were on a 70 game pace much of the season with a starting center who you say is always out of position on both ends and only gets garbage stats. If Antonio McDyess was such a huge upgrade at that position, I wonder why they couldn't win

BTW, the Spurs appear to have gone 8-9 when Duncan came back from that injury.

As for your other topic, I was for Blair starting almost from the get-go, and was likely the first person to suggest it his rookie year. Once Splitter came in, I was hopeful that he would start alongside Duncan because of the huge impact those two would have on defense together. Once Blair got the gig last year, I hoped he wouldn't get a quick hook because he seemed to be too amped up when starting and I figured those mistakes wouldn't happen once he calmed down. Pop had gotten into a habit during that time of pulling players off the floor for one mistake to "punish" them and I hoped he wouldn't do it to Blair. To his credit, he almost managed to control himself.

Blair was not removed from the starting lineup for anything he did. He was removed because the Spurs got crushed by the Lakers in a game where nobody showed up. It's the same failed logic that had Splitter sitting on the bench the entire season through no fault of his own.

The Truth #6

01-01-2012, 01:43 PM

Unless Pop flat out says it, I doubt we'll ever know why the lineup was switched last season. I assumed that it was always Pop's plan to have Dice take over the starting spot and he was merely trying to "save" Dice for the playoffs. I think Pop makes longterm plans and usually sticks with them, even if new developments should persuade him otherwise. For example, I think his plan is to stick with TJ Ford all season long, even if Ford stinks it up.

DMC

01-01-2012, 02:37 PM

So I guess you stand by your conclusion that the Spurs' terrible play at the end of the season had everything to do with Timmy hurting his ankle and nothing at all to do with replacing the starting center and cutting his minutes.

The mark of a defeated argument is the appearance of the strawman.

The play at the end of the season (?) was about the same as the play in the middle of the season, minus Tim's situation (he wasn't the same when he returned) and a few other factors, not the least of those being the play of the opponents.

It doesn't have to rest solely on Tim's ankle or Blair's starting role, however I would say that it had more to do with Tim's ankle than Blair's starting role.

BTW, the Spurs appear to have gone 8-9 when Duncan came back from that injury.
You just brushed aside Tim's absence as if it had nothing to do with the drop off in win percentage as if the Spurs dropped off the edge of a cliff because Blair was benched.

As for your other topic, I was for Blair starting almost from the get-go, and was likely the first person to suggest it his rookie year. Once Splitter came in, I was hopeful that he would start alongside Duncan because of the huge impact those two would have on defense together. Once Blair got the gig last year, I hoped he wouldn't get a quick hook because he seemed to be too amped up when starting and I figured those mistakes wouldn't happen once he calmed down. Pop had gotten into a habit during that time of pulling players off the floor for one mistake to "punish" them and I hoped he wouldn't do it to Blair. To his credit, he almost managed to control himself.
So you admit Blair was making rookie mistakes (amped, as you put it) and you were afraid Pop would pull him for that. Why didn't you lean on his stats and ignore the actual floor play that could not be supported with stats? Were you aware that Pop watches the games?

Blair was not removed from the starting lineup for anything he did. He was removed because the Spurs got crushed by the Lakers in a game where nobody showed up. It's the same failed logic that had Splitter sitting on the bench the entire season through no fault of his own.Translation: I cannot provide any stats to support my opinion. (see how that works?)

But I will agree with you on this: Blair was removed for things he did not do, like contain other team's bigs, or avoid getting in early foul trouble, or limit turnovers, or make good decisions, or control himself in the paint.

Blair's play last year had regressed, but that was explained away by saying he was now playing against other teams' starters and that he was over his head (no pun intended).

The threads from that time period chronicle the development. You shouldn't ignore them.

Also, you're really confusing cause and correlation. Other teams were getting up to speed as their stars were recovering.

therealtruth

01-01-2012, 08:16 PM

The Spurs had beaten the stuffing out of the Lakers in the first game, and then Dice had the tip in on the second. Laker nation was in a frenzy, and everyone knew they were mad and treating that third game like their super bowl. In fact, it was probably the best effort that Lakers team gave the entire season, including the playoffs. The Spurs knew it was just another regular season game against a non-division opponent who they'd beaten twice, so they didn't really show up. As you said, Pop had given them an excuse for not showing up by treating the Lakers like something special. He put them in a losing frame of mind, and then fatally disrupted the team afterward.

Phil Jackson didn't win a title, but he clearly mind fucked Popovich into ruining the Spurs last year. Pop was afraid to try for the best record against the Lakers which led to Manu's injury in the Phoenix game.

Phil was the expert at mind games. He had so many coaches, including Pop, beat mentally. Even he was surprised when Pop pulled his starters out of the last Lakers game.

Ice009

01-01-2012, 08:46 PM

It was a confidence crusher. He had been saying all along the Lakers were better then the Lakers came along and crushed them from the tip.

Pop was a fool, and that pissed me off every time he kept bringing up that the Lakers are the best team in the NBA and we're nothing compared to them. Well Pop, those Lakers got fucking destroyed in the playoffs. I thought they were beatable all throughout the regular season, yet Pop kept drilling it into his team that they are like some unbeatable giant.

He never said stuff to that degree in Championship seasons, I understand he was trying to keep the team grounded, but that wasn't the way to do it.

I'm pretty sure Phil Jackson never tells his team someone else is better until they are eliminated or has he? I don't recall him doing so, and he hardly ever gives another team credit for any win during the regular season.

I also hated the move to sit the starters against LA in the second last game of the season. I wanted to go at them full strength. Pop never sat players in those kind of games during championship seasons (unless it was the last game of the season and we had our seeding locked up), in fact games like those ended up being big wins that built a higher level of confidence for the team heading into the playoffs.

therealtruth

01-01-2012, 09:06 PM

Pop was a fool, and that pissed me off every time he kept bringing up that the Lakers are the best team in the NBA and we're nothing compared to them. Well Pop, those Lakers got fucking destroyed in the playoffs. I thought they were beatable all throughout the regular season, yet Pop kept drilling it into his team that they are like some unbeatable giant.

He never said stuff to that degree in Championship seasons, I understand he was trying to keep the team grounded, but that wasn't the way to do it.

I'm pretty sure Phil Jackson never tells his team someone else is better until they are eliminated or has he? I don't recall him doing so, and he hardly ever gives another team credit for any win during the regular season.

I also hated the move to sit the starters against LA in the second last game of the season. I wanted to go at them full strength. Pop never sat players in those kind of games during championship seasons (unless it was the last game of the season and we had our seeding locked up), in fact games like those ended up being big wins that built a higher level of confidence for the team heading into the playoffs.

I would have liked him to encourage the team to believe in themselves. That's the kind of motivating stuff you want from your coach not that some other team is better than you. He did that with George Hill against the Mavs in '10 and it paid off.

Obstructed_View

01-01-2012, 09:10 PM

The mark of a defeated argument is the appearance of the strawman.
You should probably look those words up before you use them. I pointed out the record after Dice replaced Blair, you credited it all to Tim's injury and dismissed my point entirely. The clear implication is that you aren't willing to even entertain the idea that Blair's removal from the starting lineup was a contributing factor. Coupled with your previous statement that Blair was always out of position, I made a guess based on the information. In no way did I misrepresent anything you'd stated previously.

The play at the end of the season (?) was about the same as the play in the middle of the season, minus Tim's situation (he wasn't the same when he returned) and a few other factors, not the least of those being the play of the opponents.

It doesn't have to rest solely on Tim's ankle or Blair's starting role, however I would say that it had more to do with Tim's ankle than Blair's starting role.
Actually you just said that it had more to do with Duncan's ankle, the play of the opponents, and "a few other factors" than with removing the starting center (less than one paragraph later you strengthen the "strawman" above). I'm unsure how you can be surprised that I came to the conclusion that you really don't believe that Blair's replacement was important to the nosedive of the team when you are willing to create "other factors" out of thin air and give them weight.

By the way, those six games the Spurs lost without Duncan were probably the toughest stretch of opponents they had all season, and they had to go through it without two of the starters that got them off to such a strong start.

You just brushed aside Tim's absence as if it had nothing to do with the drop off in win percentage as if the Spurs dropped off the edge of a cliff because Blair was benched.
Not at all. If you look, I completely removed the six games that you referenced from the numbers, and the Spurs didn't go .500 the rest of the way. Since you pointed to those specific games I just bypassed them and still made my case.

So you admit Blair was making rookie mistakes (amped, as you put it) and you were afraid Pop would pull him for that.
First of all, being excited to be in the starting lineup hardly qualifies as a "mistake", particularly the way you've been falsely painting Blair. Second, the thread you linked was the first month of the season when he was named starter. And of course I was afraid Pop would pull Blair early in the season for a stupid mistake or a perceived error. Pop does things like that, and has for years. Evidence that my paranoia was justified: HE PULLED BLAIR FROM THE STARTING LINEUP OF A TEAM ON A 70 WIN PACE A YEAR LATER.

Why didn't you lean on his stats and ignore the actual floor play that could not be supported with stats? Were you aware that Pop watches the games?

I gave you Blair's numbers, his minutes, the team's record before and after he was replaced by Dice, Bonner's numbers as his backup and made a case to give Blair more minutes. You seem to continually ignore them.

Translation: I cannot provide any stats to support my opinion. (see how that works?)
There are no basketball statistics to support what Pop does with his lineups, there's only history, and there's a lot of it. Your complete lack of anything approaching a single statistic to support Blair's failure as a starting center on the best team in basketball just supports my opinion further.

But I will agree with you on this: Blair was removed for things he did not do, like contain other team's bigs, or avoid getting in early foul trouble, or limit turnovers, or make good decisions, or control himself in the paint.
Well, you did give a list of things he didn't do. Blair averaged less than three fouls per game last year and had fewer turnovers than Tim Duncan. I mean you were pretty much exposed several posts back, but I wanted to show you how one can actually look at stats to back up a viewpoint. You should try it, but you'll probably have to get all new viewpoints.

Blair's play last year had regressed, but that was explained away by saying he was now playing against other teams' starters and that he was over his head (no pun intended).
Um, his play regressed?

The threads from that time period chronicle the development. You shouldn't ignore them.
People that don't like Blair can say that he's a bad player, that he's too short, that he's lost on defense, that his stats are regressing. All it takes is an idiot with a keyboard. You've been doing it for a while now. The only thing it's evidence of is that you're an idiot with an agenda.

Also, you're really confusing cause and correlation. Other teams were getting up to speed as their stars were recovering.
Non sequitir. Not sure what you're trying to explain away.

DMC

01-01-2012, 10:09 PM

Obstructed_View

01-01-2012, 11:51 PM

1. Word games (brushed aside vs bypassed)("excited to play", as if that's something Pop would pull someone for if they aren't missing rotations and making mistakes)
2. Making strawmen of my points, as if I used a bifurcated response (I didn't)
3. Pretending you know the meaning of the word
4. Ignoring facts (Tim's injury)
5. Double standards (you can make points without stats but I cannot)

You don't have to accept that Blair missed damn near every rotation, but he did. You don't have to accept that he was benched because he sucked, but he did. You can continue to believe the Spurs were the best team in the league because of their record, but they weren't.

Either way, I'm done with you. I've made my points.

You've certainly made your points, and proven that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Opinions with nothing to back them up. Sad that you didn't even bother to read my response. It's almost as though you had your mind made up a long time ago and nothing was going to change your mind.

Your surrender is accepted.