Grades: Spurs @ Rockets - Dec. 29

[timvp]

Tim Duncan F
On the second night of a back-to-back, Tim Duncan looked like he was about 55 years old. His mobility was poor. He couldn't jump. His post moves were ineffective. He routinely got bullied in the paint. Pop sat Duncan for the entire second half -- for good reason. Let's hope this was just a bad outing and not a preview of how difficult back-to-backs will be for Duncan this season.

Manu Ginobili C
Manu Ginobili had his moments where he look really good, however those moments didn't come as frequently as they came in the first two games. Ginobili spent most of this night forcing the action, making iffy decisions offensively and playing without energy on defense (which led to a lot of open shots for the Rockets). He was one of many players who looked tired tonight.

Tony Parker C
The intensity was there for Tony Parker ... but the execution was missing. His playmaking was bad and he went one-on-one too often. Defensively, he was good at times but also zoned out on a number of possessions. Fatigue didn't appear to be an issue with Parker -- he just wasn't very good.

Richard Jefferson C+
After missing shots early, Richard Jefferson began to hesitate. That led to him being a burden on the offensive end. Defensively, Jefferson didn't make an impact; he was slow on his closeouts and didn't offer much help. I gave him a couple bonus points for soaking up some trash minutes in the second half.

DeJuan Blair B+
DeJuan Blair played well enough for the Spurs to win. Defensively, he actually did decent work on Luis Scola early on (Duncan was the one getting destroyed by Scola). Blair also rebounded well and showed good fight in the paint. Though his play was a bit out of control, Blair did his part tonight.

Tiago Splitter A-
In this disaster, Tiago Splitter was the bright spot. Defensively, he was once again really good. He protected the rim well, he moved his feet and overall just seems to really understand what the Spurs are trying to do. On offense, Splitter was much improved. His three assists led the team and his movement off the ball was helpful. It wasn't a fluke that the Spurs outscored the Rockets by 12 points when Splitter was on the court and got outscored by 32 points when he was on the bench.

Kawhi Leonard B
The picture of what Kawhi Leonard can bring to the Spurs is beginning to come into focus. On offense, while his jumper is shaky, he makes strong cuts and crashes the boards. Defensively, Leonard has a chance to be a really good individual defender and an even better help defender. Against the Rockets, Leonard had some issues in his individual D but that is to be expected for a player with virtually no pro experience.

James Anderson D+
I didn't like the way James Anderson played tonight. His movements off the ball were soft and without purpose. His ballhandling was loose. His transition defense was extremely lazy. He kept leaving shooters open and just failed to really compete in any aspect. He played a little better during garbage time in the fourth quarter but it was much too little, too late.

Matt Bonner D-
Is Matt Bonner done? It's starting to look like it. After going without a rebound in 16 minutes against Houston, he now has one rebound in 62 minutes this season. Defensively, he was garbage again tonight. Offensively, he missed four of five shots and made things worse by passing up shots and erroneously thinking he can make plays off the dribble.

Cory Joseph B
The rookie point guard played the last 14 minutes of this blowout and actually did pretty well. His combination of size and ballhandling ability makes him an intriguing prospect. He also seems to have the ability to create shots for himself off the dribble. Joseph plays with good pace and has at least decent vision. His size is also an asset on defense. Overall, he's raw but at times he doesn't look to be too far away from being able to help.

Danny Green B+
I liked how hard Danny Green played during his time in the fourth quarter. He defended really well and he crashed the boards on both ends. Green isn't bashful about shooting and he's more athletic than he looks. The energy he brings to the table could end up being really useful in this compacted schedule of games.

TJ Ford C+
Following two relatively good games to begin his Spurs career, TJ Ford took a step back tonight. He was making wrong pass after wrong pass. He also kept leaving his feet without knowing what he wanted to do. Defensively he was decent but was usually a step slow. Ford is trying hard to fit but tonight he was just totally out of rhythm.

Pop B
There wasn't much Pop could do tonight. He had too many players performing poorly and a too many shooters who couldn't buy a bucket. Benching Duncan for the second half was smart, as was giving Leonard the start to begin the third quarter. He was also able to get a good look at Joseph. On the other hand, it's really getting close to the point that Pop is going to have to think about dropping Bonner from the rotation completely.

[Sean Cagney]

GOOD POST I agree on all. I think Tim is in his last year, at times it's just painful to watch the man we once saw abuse bigs night in and out with ease.

[analyzed]

I count this game as additional practice (pre-season type of game). what we got out of it is Splitter and Leonard got more practice in with the team.

[DPG21920]

Too high for Pop. He left Bonner in for the 2nd game in a row for too long of a stretch when he wasn't rebounding or hitting shots and it put them in a hole big time.

[Russ]

[Matt Bonner D-
Is Matt Bonner done? It's starting to look like it.

No matter how bad things may look, there's always a silver lining. . .

[DPG21920]

Timvp, do you think that what you saw tonight will cause Pop to severely alter his strategies going forward with regards to rotation/minutes?

[jjktkk]

Too high for Pop. He left Bonner in for the 2nd game in a row for too long of a stretch when he wasn't rebounding or hitting shots and it put them in a hole big time.

Bonners played like shit the 1st 3 games, but he wasn't the sole reason the Spurs got behind early. Although its really easy to shit on Bonner, this beatdown was a complete team effort by the Spurs.

[Mr. Body]

Has anyone asked yet why we traded Luis Scola?

[DPG21920]

I'm not saying it's all on Bonner, but it's on the coach to take a limited player out as soon as he says he's not producing that limited skill. Pop left him in too long twice in a row now and it really hurt the Spurs. There usually isn't just one factor that is bad, and this is no different, but it's a major one.

[Bill_Brasky]

We not only need a 5th big, we need one to take Bonner's minutes as well...

[analyzed]

Cam someone tell me what the Spurs are waiting for as far as getting another big? Seriously what are the possible reasons that their holding out ? Are they waiting for add'l waivers? aren't they all done, Play the 1st 2 weeks without one , then get whoever? Are they waiting for the players overseas (Martin ) to be available.
I think we are risking serious injury by over extending are bigs (Splitter, Blair) to play meaningless minutes. Certainly a d-leaque big can play those garbage minutes. Or are the Spurs penny saving to the max. I really don't get this

[DPG21920]

We need a 3rd or 4th big. Someone equally good as Tiago so Matt is out.

[timtonymanu]

Liked what I saw out of Blair.

This is his 2nd straight solid performance. I hope he keeps this level of play up. It will improve our weak front line.

Tiago and Kawhi continue to impress.

Bonner sucks as always.

I want Gary Neal back.

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

I guess wind-sprints ain't shit..

[timvp]

Too high for Pop. He left Bonner in for the 2nd game in a row for too long of a stretch when he wasn't rebounding or hitting shots and it put them in a hole big time.

Hate to stick up for Bonner but he entered the game in the first half with Spurs down by 11 and left with Spurs down by 5. Yes, Pop should have pulled him earlier but part of the problem is lack of bigman depth. Right now, Bonner pretty much has to get some minutes unless Pop wants to make a full-time leap to small ball being part of the rotation.

[timvp]

Timvp, do you think that what you saw tonight will cause Pop to severely alter his strategies going forward with regards to rotation/minutes?

Doubt it. He'll chalk up this loss as one where the Big 3 played sub par basketball and no one could hit a shot. He may considering altering Bonner's minutes but Pop will probably give him another week or two to show some life.

Although JA might have officially lost his job to Neal with his poor effort tonight.

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Don't forget to include that Houston was unconscious with their shooting, all in all, they aren't a great team, but every team has those games.

[DMC]

Bonners played like shit the 1st 3 games, but he wasn't the sole reason the Spurs got behind early. Although its really easy to shit on Bonner, this beatdown was a complete team effort by the Spurs.
Bonner is the most glaringly obvious turd in the punchbowl. Sure the punch might taste like shit anyhow, but you gotta suspect that turd.

[DMC]

Oddly enough, Blair seems to be in better game shape than most of the Spurs.

[therealtruth]

I'm not saying it's all on Bonner, but it's on the coach to take a limited player out as soon as he says he's not producing that limited skill. Pop left him in too long twice in a row now and it really hurt the Spurs. There usually isn't just one factor that is bad, and this is no different, but it's a major one.

Agree 100%. If Bonner is going to pass up shots there's no point of him being out there. That's despite the fact he provides nothing as afar as defense and rebounding.

[DMC]

Bonner does that little "oh I got no shot, let me drive one step into the lane and then pick up my dribble" move that does absolutely nothing to improve the offense.

RJ was doing that as well.

[objective]

Duncan looked like Raptor Hakeem tonight. I hope it's temporary.

Bonner looks like the lockout stole his legs out from under him. His vertical is now about the same as Duncan's. There was a point where he was at the right place to contest a shot but couldn't even get off the ground. I'm sure that factors into his non-rebounding. He wasn't exactly Flight White before, but he can't get off the ground at all.

Anderson played poorly, to the point of getting benched for Green. On the one hand, it's early in the season and just a bad game from a player who was going to have growing pains. On the other hand, that's all Pop needs to stuff him into the doghouse all year long. Inexperienced player make mistakes? He's done. Experienced vet play like hot garbage time after time? Permanent spot in the rotation.

I'm close to being through with TJ Ford. He's joining Bonner and Jefferson in the Axis of Failure group. I have not been nearly as impressed with his season thus far as many others, and even though I was a Joseph skeptic after the draft when I reviewed some Big 12 conference games, Joseph is the one who should play. Yes, TJ can get inside and pass out to 3 point shooters like he did today that they bricked. But that's pretty much it. That's great for a 3rd stringer. But I want either Neal or Joseph to be the back-up. Which of course won't be happening.

Leonard is doing well. When that 3 point % creeps up, that's when he'll really be making the fandom wish it was him playing instead of Jefferson.

[therealtruth]

I really liked Tiago's defense tonight. I think to extend Duncan's career he's going to need to play with Splitter more. On offense he can take advantage of his size advantage and on defense he can allow Tiago to take the tougher matchup. That allows Blair to do his thing of the bench. That's why the team really needs a 5th big.

[DPG21920]

Good news is this still looks possible. Tiago and Kawhi have exceeded expectations for the most part. They have the potential to be a top 7 defensive team. The age of the big 3 is a big concern especially this year.


Agree somewhat, but its all about expectations. I don't think anyone outside of a true homer legitimately sees them as a contender as is. But if we are talking 2nd round or conference finals? To me, it's not that out of the question depending on how things shake out. Not saying that is likely, in fact I believe that it is not very likely. But it's really not a huge stretch all things considered.

Keep in mind a few things: Spurs with what I perceive to be a worse roster last year had the best record. If Manu doesn't get injured really late in the season, Spurs might have beaten Memphis. It's not guaranteed, but I feel it was attainable.

Spurs, while they have a lot of question marks, also have a lot of decent upside young players in Leonard, Blair & Tiago. It's far from a given that those guys take a step forward, but the potential is there. If those guys can play well, this team will be better than last years (barring any injury to the big 3). If that is the case, depending on what other teams add and what the Spurs do, I can see a mini little playoff run to the 2nd round (probably my ceiling if things go well) or even a WCF (if things go REALLY WELL).

So with all of that, remember you have nuggets team that was a threat, but is now way less of a team because of their players leaving/left. New Orleans is likely to be without West. There really isn't anyone jumping the Spurs and if you get a net improvement by playing Tiago/Leonard more (again, not a given at all) it's not that hard to see them competing more than last year which I would be thrilled with.

[therealtruth]

Don't forget to include that Houston was unconscious with their shooting, all in all, they aren't a great team, but every team has those games.

Too many players on the Spurs were thinking too much instead of just letting the ball fly like the Rockets were.

[TE]

Agree on the grades.


Good write up.

[analyzed]

Will TD even avg 10 pts a game? I know stats alone does not tell the whole story. but it is an indicator of how much he has left. I guess the best to hope for. is in a 7 game series he can still do a 15 and 10. and play good defense. (limiting a gasol to 20 pts)

[Russo21]

We are fucked if The Great One keeps those performances up

[lefty]

Splitter led the team in assists ?








:rollin

[Russo21]

Last years regular season was fools gold, we started out so well it was crazy. Which led to no moves being made at the trade deadline in spite of our glaring weaknesses. I kinda hope we keep sucking so that a move/moves are pulled by the trade deadline cause we aren't winning shit with this team as currently constructed. Keep playing shit Bonner and RJ and ill pray you arent on the team come playoff time.

[mingus]

i expected the loss. tired legs.

[easy7]

I agree with most grades, but would have given Bonner an "F" for performing like he was in the playoffs and Blair an "A-" since he looked like he was really trying hard out there..

[itzsoweezee]

Pop screwed up when he took Tiago out in the second quarter while he had it going. The Rockets promptly went on a huge run. That poor decision was the game. Duncan shouldn't play back to backs from here on out.

Too many minutes for Bonner was just the icing on the cake.

F-

[5in10]

Pop screwed up when he took Tiago out in the second quarter while he had it going. The Rockets promptly went on a huge run. That poor decision was the game. Duncan shouldn't play back to backs from here on out.

Too many minutes for Bonner was just the icing on the cake.

F-

This. Then Tony and Duncan proceeded to force shots up which were mostly misses.

[DMC]

KL needs to stop shooting the 3. He's not a good outside shooter. He needs to shorten his range.

[DMC]

As shitty as the team looked, I saw positive things out there, namely Blair and Splitter, the two huge question marks we had for this season. The rest of the team won't always be that shitty, and if those two are solid, we are better off with a lower playoff spot than the overrated offense first shit we had last year.

[Fireball]

Pop screwed up when he took Tiago out in the second quarter while he had it going. The Rockets promptly went on a huge run. That poor decision was the game. Duncan shouldn't play back to backs from here on out.

Yeah, I thought ok, now Timmy comes back and plays with Splitter ... then I looked again and saw that Bonner was still on the floor ... I really screamed out loud. Did Pop really think it was Bonners defense that led to closing the gap. Bonner should never ever see more minutes than Tiago if its not a blowout in favor of the Spurs ...

[Bruno]

The main issue with Bonner is that he is playing soft. He used to be a relatively tough player who plays relatively hard but he is all soft now. Playing that way when you have Bonner's physical limitation is a disaster.

Pop needs to have an eye to eye meeting with him and call him out by using the soft card. If Pop tells him "either you play hard or you don't play", we will see a much less worse version of Bonner.

[itzsoweezee]

Pop needs to have an eye to eye meeting with him and call him out by using the soft card. If Pop tells him "either you play hard or you don't play", we will see a much less worse version of Bonner.

The better option is that we simply see much less of Bonner. His supposed hard work never amounted to much anyway.

[therealtruth]

Yeah, I thought ok, now Timmy comes back and plays with Splitter ... then I looked again and saw that Bonner was still on the floor ... I really screamed out loud. Did Pop really think it was Bonners defense that led to closing the gap. Bonner should never ever see more minutes than Tiago if its not a blowout in favor of the Spurs ...

Pop should have played Tiago and Tim together. It would have made Tim's night much easier. He was struggling getting anything going against Hill. Might have been able to get something going against Scola. That's why the team really needs a fifth big.

[Indazone]

Pop should have played Tiago and Tim together. It would have made Tim's night much easier. He was struggling getting anything going against Patterson. Might have been able to get something going against Scola. That's why the team really needs a fifth big.

Scola Thread!!! Whooo Whooo!!!

[Sean Cagney]

:rollin
The better option is that we simply see much less of Bonner. His supposed hard work never amounted to much anyway.

:lol:lol I agree 100%.

[Xevious]

Bonner sucks. We all know this.

Watching Duncan though gets more painful each season. I know it was a back to back. But he looks so immobile out there right now. He really needs to have his minutes limited as much as possible for the playoffs, and that just isn't possible with only three bigs + Bonner on the roster. If a trade can't be made, the FO needs to go d-league shopping.

[therealtruth]

Bonner sucks. We all know this.

Watching Duncan though gets more painful each season. I know it was a back to back. But he looks so immobile out there right now. He really needs to have his minutes limited as much as possible for the playoffs, and that just isn't possible with only three bigs + Bonner on the roster. If a trade can't be made, the FO needs to go d-league shopping.

I think the problem with Duncan is that he needs help. He's being asked to do too much defensively when he starts with Blair. If he plays with Splitter it makes it easier for him and he can do more on the offensive end. It also allows the Spurs to set a defensive tone and then get scoring of the bench. Right now they're trying to set an offensive tone and then bring better defense of the bench. It's a dangerous strategy because if the other team gets going offensively it might not be possible to cool them down later.

[venitian navigator]

The shedule as it is, with back to backs as a rule and not an exception, oblige teams (expecially teams with aging veterans) to self-impose the rule of resting players for entire games and not just for minutes, like in a normal season (when back to back are the excepions).
The sooner the F.O. realize that our players need some "total" rest and Duncan has to play just two every three games (and no way he has to play in back to backs or back to back to backs) the better.
For doing this we need to co,mlòete our roster with other two bigs.
As of now a new big man is available at a small price : Skinner.
Nothing to write home about, but he's a veteran with some skills and at least for eating some minutes he could be decent...

[Obstructed_View]

Game thoughts.

Note: This game doesn't deserve two separate posts grading the players.

I won't go into too much detail because I only watched the game once. I got the Houston feed, and listening to Clyde Drexler give color commentary makes my brain dry up. I think I got so much stupider I actually started to drool during the broadcast, and I'm afraid to watch it again without an adult undergarment handy. I admit that I spent a large portion of the game skipping forward in disgust.

It's disappointing that the starters didn't show up, but even more that the kids didn't give much energy. If this is all the fight the Spurs are going to show on back to backs, maybe having to fight their way back up the standings late in the season will teach them the error of their ways. Compared to how it's gonna get, this was a relatively easy game tonight.

Tim Duncan just didn't show up. He went through the motions for a bit, but looked like he didn't want to be there. He got roasted early and just checked out. I'm embarrassed for writing such glowing praise for him last night.

Manu is capable of being the best player on the floor, but with good Manu you sometimes have to accept bad Manu, and it might as well be on a night that nobody else is doing crap and the other team is hitting a lot of jumpers. Once they left Kevin Martin alone to get his confidence back, it was all over.

James Anderson looked a lot like Michael Finley, leaving his man wide open, not challenging on defense. He's far too young and didn't have nearly enough three point attempts to do stuff like that.

Blair was more than just the only warm body among the starters tonight, he was also pretty good. Managed to fill up the stat sheet for his trouble.

If we had a crystal ball, Splitter would have started this game alongside Blair. No telling how that would have turned out. The Spurs were down 8, Splitter comes in, the Rockets don't score for the rest of the quarter, the Spurs tie it up, Duncan comes back in, and boom, they're down by 20

Kawhi Leonard looks like a keeper. I think a lot of us let the disinterested look that's always on his face decieve us.

The Rocket Rowdies are the lamest cheering section ever. I don't even know why they bother.

Cory Joseph is not going to Austin, folks. The Spurs need bodies, particularly when so many guys seem like they're not going to show up when they don't get a day of beauty sleep. Of note: Joseph now has matched Matt Bonner's stats in only 14 minutes of play.

Daniel Green hustled. He looks like a real NBA player. Should come in handy if real NBA players choose to accompany him to the arena.

Clyde Drexler said that Richard Jefferson looks "at least 30 pounds overweight". I loled.

If you see Pop or Buford or anyone who you suspect was responsible for trading Luis Scola to Houston, please kick them in the fucking nuts as hard as you can. Your night in jail will be well spent, and I'll be there with you in spirit.

[Fireball]

Clyde Drexler said that Richard Jefferson looks "at least 30 pounds overweight". I loled.

That really did it for me ... god, what crap commentary that was ...

[Spurs Brazil]

“I’m not sure how many times I want to be down 18 in this shortened season and work Timmy, Manu and Tony (Parker) to work us out of that hole,” Popovich said. “Not this early in the season.

“Later on, depending on our situation, it might make more sense. But at this point, it was a great opportunity to treat it like training camp and get a lot of the younger kids out there and treat it like practice.”

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/12/29/pop-treats-blowout-loss-to-rockets-%E2%80%98like-preseason%E2%80%99/

[Obstructed_View]

Actually, those are the guys that worked the Spurs into that hole. Putting them back in just compunds the problem.

[therealtruth]

I think Splitter's got to start and maybe Kawhi if they want to develop championship level defense. In general you want to start your best defensive unit. You can always bring offense of the bench. The problem with starting offense first is if they don't have it going the bench has a big hole it has to make up for. Splitter was a big part of stopping the bleeding defensively. If he had started they might have actually been able to play with the lead.

[biskvito]

Manu_Forever would disagree.:bike:

[dbestpro]

I wonder if some of the fatigue is in the mind as much as it is in the body. For so many of the players to be gassed makes me think they think they are tired therefore they are. This is a place where Pop could make a difference by just referring to this point. Duncan almost looked like he needed to be in a wheelchair let alone on the basketball court.

[cd98]

Spurs need a low seed or to miss the playoffs entirely. Next year's draft is too good and we need a young superstar. Once Manu and Duncan retire, our next generation will perpetuate our mediocrity. And this squad doesn't have enough to win the title.

[Respect]

Thanks for the grades, Blair definitely held his own.

[weebo]

On my grading scale, I gave everyone F-- 'cept Splitter & Blair.

[ploto]

I just can not buy the back-to-back excuse on this one. The game the night before was a 25-point win and the big 3 only played 26 minutes each. Their travel was from SA to Houston. If they can not handle this, then how are they going to handle the season going forward?

[Fireball]

I just can not buy the back-to-back excuse on this one. The game the night before was a 25-point win and the big 3 only played 26 minutes each. Their travel was from SA to Houston. If they can not handle this, then how are they going to handle the season going forward?

Plain and simple: TD does not play anymore on B2Bs ... he should not even travel with the team if its only a 1 game road trip.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

Except that leaves a total of two players taller than 6'7, and one of them is Matt Bonner.

The problem is we have no big men to play. Same problem goes for those wishing Bonner to be dropped / get injured. Cui bono?

[Proxy]

Spurs need a low seed or to miss the playoffs entirely. Next year's draft is too good and we need a young superstar. Once Manu and Duncan retire, our next generation will perpetuate our mediocrity. And this squad doesn't have enough to win the title.

Can you shut the fuck up, please? As long as Duncan and Manu are on this team with Pop coaching, SA shoots for the finals. The West is wide open, and there's no reason to think we can't make serious noise. Arthur injured, no Chandler or JJ, loss of Odom, and Westbrick give us a good chance.

[rascal]

I just can not buy the back-to-back excuse on this one. The game the night before was a 25-point win and the big 3 only played 26 minutes each. Their travel was from SA to Houston. If they can not handle this, then how are they going to handle the season going forward?

Players are just not in top condition yet with the limited preseason. It will be a big advantage at least early on for the teams that are resting a couple of days playing a team on a back to back.

[Dex]

So, after sleeping on it for a night....


































Yeah, that game still sucked.

Scola :pctoss

Dick :frying:

Bonner :cry

:deadhorse

[Bill_Brasky]

I just can not buy the back-to-back excuse on this one. The game the night before was a 25-point win and the big 3 only played 26 minutes each. Their travel was from SA to Houston. If they can not handle this, then how are they going to handle the season going forward?

The Rockets just couldn't miss last night while we couldn't buy a bucket. It happens.

[djohn2oo8]

The Rockets just couldn't miss last night while we couldn't buy a bucket. It happens.

I was surprised at how Dalembert had that much of an impact in the paint. Been a long time since we had that.

[ducks]

boston is letting their team try to dig them out of 17 and 18 defeifts
at the end of the season we can see if rivers or pop is the smarter coach
by the way boston lost both of their games they were down big

[ducks]

duncan got blocked alot last night
I think the team mailed it in. duncan is the leader

[024]

i always thought duncan wasn't being criticized enough last year because the team was winning so much so one cared. but this year, duncan's inadequacies will be largely magnified if the spurs don't win enough games.

[z0sa]

Everyone deserved an F except Blair and Splitter tbh

Timmy's problem wasn't tiredness, couldn't have been.. which makes me wonder.

[DMC]

48MoH had an article about Tim going away from his bank shot. Since he's done that, he's been in a sort of limbo, looking for something. I don't know why he went away from that shot.

[dylankerouac]

Bending the knees for the bank shot might be hurting his knees too much. I'm thinking something along these lines : (.

[siraulo23]

That stretch in the 2nd quarter when manu and duncan comes back to the game. It was brutal

The rockets couldnt miss, and they kept going to duncan and it took forever to setup, which resulted in TOs and baskets the other way. They ran that play at least three times in a row, and the lead ballooned for the rockets

Also, except for the first game where blair was in foul trouble, it doesnt seem like we're gonna see much of duncan/splitter frontline

[z0sa]

The idea behind the banker was that he could drive and finish as well as swish the banker, so he put them into the torture chamber. When you have trouble beating your opponent off the dribble even when he plays you close, you lose the ability to put them into that torture chamber anymore.

Tim hasn't gone away from the banker.. it just isn't as viable as it used to be.

[dylankerouac]

I wish pop would stop trying to reinvent the game of basketball with his big that can shoot the three. Get a 4th big already pop - if only to reduce the wear and tear in the early part of the season. Heck, maybe he'll be impressed with the play of this scrappy player.

[wildbill2u]

duncan got blocked alot last night
I think the team mailed it in. duncan is the leader

The TV analysts on TNT were Barkley, Shaq and Kenny Smith. They were joking about how Duncan was going to be invited to a lot of block parties this year.

Looks like the retired players don't have much respect for Duncan's play this year.

[Mr. Body]

Simple question:

If you replaced Bonner on this roster with Luis Scola, do we win the championship? How far do we get (difficulty: baseline is no playoffs)?

[timvp]

48MoH had an article about Tim going away from his bank shot. Since he's done that, he's been in a sort of limbo, looking for something. I don't know why he went away from that shot.

TD uses his bank shot as much as ever. On a per-shot basis, he uses it more than ever.

It's Duncan's lack of post-up game that drags down his scoring. I'm not sure he has scored so far this season off of 4-down.

[analyzed]

The idea behind the banker was that he could drive and finish as well as swish the banker, so he put them into the torture chamber. When you have trouble beating your opponent off the dribble even when he plays you close, you lose the ability to put them into that torture chamber anymore.

Tim hasn't gone away from the banker.. it just isn't as viable as it used to be.

In short defenders don't respect his drive anymore nor is he a serious threat in the low block. This is puts more preasure on tony and manu to create. Timmy has been relegated to either a jump shooter or rolling to the baskets on PR.
It's not really the points he gets or not. it's the impact we lose with him no longer being a threat, that's huge

[Trill Clinton]

I give Tiago a B-. It would be a solid A if his offense didn't suck so bad.

[TD 21]

It's because Duncan no longer has a physical advantage that he can exploit in most match ups. He's not as overpowering as he once was, he has trouble getting lift or explosion consistently and obviously his quickness is greatly diminished. That's why he resorts to a lot of flip shots and shots where he basically just tries to rely strictly on length. He said he lost a few pounds naturally through training. But he should have gone the other way and gained a few. He can never regain the quickness he once had, but he can at least come close to regaining the strength he once had.

As far as Bonner, I wouldn't go so far as to say he's done. A guy like that, with non NBA caliber athleticism to begin with, inching closer to his 32nd birthday, coming off a longer layoff than usual, who spent presumably limited time training (because he was in so many CBA meetings), I'm not surprised he looks more one dimensional than ever. His rebounding was already in decline anyway. I think eventually he'll more closely resemble his form from a season ago, but it's probably going to take him another couple of weeks.

In the meantime, this team needs another big immediately. If their answer, when not playing Duncan in a game or a second half, is going to be to start with a Blair-Leonard big combination, then they're in serious trouble. Whether the guy can play or not, they flat out need another NBA sized big to eat up minutes. If the guy can make a shot from 15 feet, but do nothing else well, fine. If he can't do that, but he's athletic and can block shots, that's fine too. It doesn't really matter at this point, they just need a body.

[analyzed]

In fairness to Timmy i would liken his current impact to something like a bill Lambeer. Not necessary in style but impact. Good defense, rebounding, smart and can hit the open jumper.
Bottom line we still can contend for a western conference semis stint. But going all the way you've got to be kidding.

[analyzed]

In the meantime, this team needs another big immediately. If their answer, when not playing Duncan in a game or a second half, is going to be to start with a Blair-Leonard big combination, then they're in serious trouble. Whether the guy can play or not, they flat out need another NBA sized big to eat up minutes. If the guy can make a shot from 15 feet, but do nothing else well, fine. If he can't do that, but he's athletic and can block shots, that's fine too. It doesn't really matter at this point, they just need a body.

+ 1
We just need another body to at least fill up some minutes. You don't want to overextend the scarse resources in bigs we have (bliar, Tiago)

[DMC]

Gaining weight would be a death sentence for Tim's knees. He lost weight to try to get his knees through the season, not for quickness.

[TD 21]

Gaining weight would be a death sentence for Tim's knees. He lost weight to try to get his knees through the season, not for quickness.

But he had already done that the previous two off seasons. At some point, you can lose too much weight. And that's what he's done. He's too skinny now. I wasn't talking about his quickness, but rather his strength, or lack thereof. To make up for the natural physical losses, he needed to maintain as much strength as possible, so that he'd have at least one physical advantage over a significant amount of opponents. Now he doesn't even have that.

[therealtruth]

It's because Duncan no longer has a physical advantage that he can exploit in most match ups. He's not as overpowering as he once was, he has trouble getting lift or explosion consistently and obviously his quickness is greatly diminished. That's why he resorts to a lot of flip shots and shots where he basically just tries to rely strictly on length. He said he lost a few pounds naturally through training. But he should have gone the other way and gained a few. He can never regain the quickness he once had, but he can at least come close to regaining the strength he once had.

As far as Bonner, I wouldn't go so far as to say he's done. A guy like that, with non NBA caliber athleticism to begin with, inching closer to his 32nd birthday, coming off a longer layoff than usual, who spent presumably limited time training (because he was in so many CBA meetings), I'm not surprised he looks more one dimensional than ever. His rebounding was already in decline anyway. I think eventually he'll more closely resemble his form from a season ago, but it's probably going to take him another couple of weeks.

In the meantime, this team needs another big immediately. If their answer, when not playing Duncan in a game or a second half, is going to be to start with a Blair-Leonard big combination, then they're in serious trouble. Whether the guy can play or not, they flat out need another NBA sized big to eat up minutes. If the guy can make a shot from 15 feet, but do nothing else well, fine. If he can't do that, but he's athletic and can block shots, that's fine too. It doesn't really matter at this point, they just need a body.

Good point. Tim is relying mostly on his length now but when he's playing center he's going against the longest guy on the other team which negates that. When he's playing with Tiago he has a greater chance to use his length. I am sure if Scola had been defending him he would have had an easier time. Scola's not a shotblocker and wouldn't be able to bother his shot. In fact he might have been able to get Scola into foul trouble.

[mystargtr34]

Yeah TD21 made a really good point about the length with Timmy.. its not just the offensive side that its hindering him.. his man on man defense has been terrible this season.. and its been suspect for a couple of seasons now. He cant stay in front of anyone off the dribble.. and he gets over powered too easily in the post because hes so damn skinny now. At this point Tiago is a better man to man defender.

Scola is lead footed and Tim couldnt get close to him defensively.

[TJastal]

It's because Duncan no longer has a physical advantage that he can exploit in most match ups. He's not as overpowering as he once was, he has trouble getting lift or explosion consistently and obviously his quickness is greatly diminished. That's why he resorts to a lot of flip shots and shots where he basically just tries to rely strictly on length. He said he lost a few pounds naturally through training. But he should have gone the other way and gained a few. He can never regain the quickness he once had, but he can at least come close to regaining the strength he once had.

As far as Bonner, I wouldn't go so far as to say he's done. A guy like that, with non NBA caliber athleticism to begin with, inching closer to his 32nd birthday, coming off a longer layoff than usual, who spent presumably limited time training (because he was in so many CBA meetings), I'm not surprised he looks more one dimensional than ever. His rebounding was already in decline anyway. I think eventually he'll more closely resemble his form from a season ago, but it's probably going to take him another couple of weeks.

In the meantime, this team needs another big immediately. If their answer, when not playing Duncan in a game or a second half, is going to be to start with a Blair-Leonard big combination, then they're in serious trouble. Whether the guy can play or not, they flat out need another NBA sized big to eat up minutes. If the guy can make a shot from 15 feet, but do nothing else well, fine. If he can't do that, but he's athletic and can block shots, that's fine too. It doesn't really matter at this point, they just need a body.

That decision to let Mahinmi bolt SA lookin' worse by the year.

[Obstructed_View]

TD uses his bank shot as much as ever. On a per-shot basis, he uses it more than ever.

It's Duncan's lack of post-up game that drags down his scoring. I'm not sure he has scored so far this season off of 4-down.

You're right. He's gotten a couple of baskets where he's going parallel to the baseline across the lane. His successful moves require a lot more movement than in recent years. In fairness, he's played against a shitload of length in the first three games and it is really early in a season with no camp. We'll know more in a month if this is just rust or the signs of a problem.