What Ails Tony Parker?

[timvp]

After the loss against the Thunder, I had this to say about San Antonio's point guard:
I'm officially pushing the panic button on Tony Parker's scoring. After a 1-for-8 night, Parker is now shooting under 40% on the season. He's simply not getting to the rim as often as usual, and even when he gets to the hoop, he's not finishing well. I want to double-check that final sentence using available statistics. Since Parker has become an All-Star and Finals MVP due to his elite ability to penetrate the lane and finish among the trees, a lessening of that ability would obviously be detrimental to his effectiveness going forward.

First of all, is Parker really getting to the rim less often than usual?

FGA at the rim per 40 minutes
2007 - 6.8
2008 - 6.7
2009 - 8.3
2010 - 6.5
2011 - 7.3
2012 - 5.6

So, yes, Parker is getting to the rim 23.2% less often than last season and at a lower rate than any point in the previous five seasons. Let's add in his teardrops.

FGA nine feet and closer per 40 minutes
2007 - 8.9
2008 - 9.0
2009 - 11.1
2010 - 8.6
2011 - 10.3
2012 - 7.4

Adding Parker's teardrop shot makes the drop from last year even larger (28.2%). From his career year in 2009, the drop is 33.3%.

Is Parker also having problems finishing at the rim?

FG% at the rim
2007 - .650
2008 - .640
2009 - .650
2010 - .627
2011 - .654
2012 - .459

Yes he is. Let's include his teardrops.

FG% nine feet and closer

2007 - .628
2008 - .608
2009 - .593
2010 - .604
2011 - .618
2012 - .429

Another thing to look at is the percentage of Parker's shots that are assisted. Traditionally, his forays to the basket are unassisted because the plays involve him beating his man off the dribble.

Ast% on FGs nine feet and closer

2007 - 25.4%
2008 - 18.2%
2009 - 20.0%
2010 - 25.2%
2011 - 22.0%
2012 - 28.6%

Not only is Parker getting to the rim less often and finishing at a lower percentage, this elevated assisted percentage suggests Parker depends on his teammates to score more than ever.

What could be causing his declining ability to finish around the basket? Is he getting blocked more often?

Percentage of interior shots blocked
2007 - 11%
2008 - 12%
2009 - 12%
2010 - 17%
2011 - 13%
2012 - 19%

Blocked shots do appear to be an issue.

Looking at those stats, there's some similarity to Parker's injury plagued season of 2009-10. That year, injuries made Parker less explosive and that negatively effected his ability to get into the lane and score. This year, Parker is again noticeably less explosive.

So what ails Tony Parker?

Injuries don't appear to be an issue. Hopefully his slow start in this area is simply due to the irregular offseason because the lockout. There wasn't a full training camp so perhaps Parker isn't in game shape yet. Could Parker be worn out after all the basketball he played in Europe during the lockout? Maybe.

The other possibility is the worst: Is this simply a matter of Parker declining? At 29, could he have reached the end of the road of his star years? To answer this question, let's look at similar players in NBA history.

To find players similar to Parker, I did search for point guards with career averages of at least 15 points and five assists and less than half a three-pointer made per game. Theoretically, these point guards, like Parker, relied on an ability to finish at the rim.

In the following list, the first number is their age of statistical decline as defined by PER dipping under 20 for last time. The number in parentheses is their statistical peak based on PER.

Isiah Thomas - 25 (23)
Calvin Murphy - 26 (25)
Walt Frazier - 27 (26)
Tiny Archibald - 28 (24)
Pistol Pete Maravich - 29 (28)
Kevin Johnson - 30 (24)
Gus Williams - 30 (28)

Unfortunately, the Parker-in-decline scenario looks likely in a historical sense -- especially considering that Parker entered the NBA at a younger age than all the players on the list and has also racked up a ton of minutes in the playoffs.

While these findings have been a bit depressing, the news isn't all bad regarding Parker. Honestly, looking at the bigger picture, there are some very positive signs.

First of all, Parker has increased his scoring when needed the most. In fourth quarters, he's averaging 30.9 points per 40 minutes on 58.8% shooting from the field and 87.5% from the line. In clutch situations (less than five minutes left in the game with neither team up by more than five points), Parker is even better -- shooting a perfect 4-for-4 from the field and 4-for-4 from the line.

Secondly, Parker's assists per minute are way up this season.

Assists per 40 minutes
2007 - 6.1
2008 - 7.1
2009 - 8.1
2010 - 7.3
2011 - 8.1
2012 - 9.6

Also, his turnovers per minute have plummeted.

Turnovers per 40 minutes
2007 - 3.1
2008 - 2.8
2009 - 3.0
2010 - 3.5
2011 - 3.2
2012 - 1.9

The result is a fantastic assist-to-turnover ratio of 4.92-to-1. To put that in perspective, only once in the last decade has an NBA player finished with an assist-to-turnover ratio that high.

Oftentimes Parker has been criticized for not being a "real point guard" and not taking care of the basketball. While we know that latter aspect can't be a complaint so far this season, it's now more than ever erroneous to say that Parker isn't a legit point guard.

Comparing Parker to Avery Johnson (who was a "real point guard" by any definition), AJ's best ever assist-to-turnover ratio was 4.0-to-1. Parker's assist percentage (defined as the percentage of field goals assisted while on the court) is 38.7% this season. AJ's assist percentage was 37.4% during the 1999 championship season and 33.4% during the 1994-95 season that ended in the Western Conference Finals.

Parker's transformation, whether intentional or not, isn't hurting the Spurs offense. In actuality, even with his own scoring down, the Spurs are an elite offensive team when Parker is on the court. The team scores 101.7 points per 48 minutes when he's on the court -- only the Miami Heat average more points per game. Normalizing pace, the Spurs score 106.4 points per 100 possessions when Parker is on the court -- only the Los Angeles Clippers score more often.

When Parker is on the bench, the Spurs aren't nearly as lethal offensively: 99.1 points per 48 minutes (which would be 8th in the NBA) and 103.7 points per 100 possessions (also 8th).

What, then, ails Tony Parker?

It's possible that he's declining -- although even if he is, there are signs he can adapt to his diminishing physical capabilities and still lead an elite offense. That said, judging by his ability to score when absolutely necessary, perhaps it's only a matter of time before Parker bounces back to his normal scoring level.

We'll have to keep checking in on Parker's production as the season progresses to conclusively figure out what's happening. As it stands, while Parker's go-to ability to score in the paint has fallen off for the time being, the stats also say his overall offensive impact remains a strength for this team.

[Hooks]

Trade his ass

[jermaine]

Trade his ass
Sounds good to me!:flag:

[Bruno]

Shoulder tendinitis.

[TDomination]

I truly want to believe that he's just rusty or tired from playing in the summer.

But i remember last year saying to myself that he isn't finishing well at the rim like he used to. He was still making incredible layups but at a much less frequent rate than before.

Now this year we have hardly seen it BUT the year is still young. And honestly if him turning into a true pg helps our team, then im all for it. That would mean that RJ needs to keep playing well all year.

[cheguevara]

9 games

[Cane]

Imo Parker's been significantly declining for the past two seasons now (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153976). Hopefully he can turn things around in this hectic schedule but it seems unlikely, and Parker is the kind of player that declines seemingly overnight since he's a small and high-mileage guard that thrives through speedy penetrations to the paint.

And while Parker has been racking up assists, his playmaking still leaves a lot to be desired. Not all assists are created equal, and his are mainly dishing it out to an open man on the perimeter, or thats what it seems like anyway, which can be gameplanned against relatively easily like the Grizz showed. Compare that with a true and elite PGs like CP3, who have better ball handling and can deliver many more dishes and scoring opportunities for his team, and also makes better decisions too. Remember that RJ alley oop that Parker and the Spurs used to run? The rest of the league figured that one out easily and we never see it anymore, part of that is on RJ and the Spurs gameplan, but most of that is just how predictable Tony Parker is as well imo.

In addition, Tony Parker's body language has bothered me for a while. and its lasted to this season as well. Specifically that highlight where Coach Pop slapped Parker's face to get him pumped, something doesn't seem right with Tony. Almost like he checked out.

Tony Parker's stock has been plummeting for me for the past couple of seasons, and it really fell after his big market aspirations, that sexting nonsense, and with Parker's decline both mentally and physically, and the Spurs getting early exits doesn't help either although he's just one of many problems when it comes to that. Hard to say against a Finals MVP, but Parker's just not living up to what the Spurs are about - class, defense, and hustling on the court. In all areas, Parker has been a huge disappointment. I can't help but think of him as a cancer.

Anyway still an early season and he's one of the few guards that can consistently penetrate and make something out of nothing for the Spurs. Hopefully he can have a monster game against the Bucks. But in all honesty, I think Parker should've been traded a while ago....he's just a very average and replaceable guard if he can't consistently be a scoring threat. But then again, I doubt there are really any realistic trades that would be worthwhile to the Spurs

[Cant_Be_Faded]

We havebeen preparing for years for this to happen. Parkers game depends on speed and we have been hoping for him to become a ruthless jump shooter to prolong his scoring prowess. I believe the, Memphis series Parker is all we can expect from him at this point. Pray I'm wrong.

[timvp]

Shoulder tendinitis.

Link? I saw him loosening up one of his arms a lot before the scrimmage (I think I posted about it) but haven't seen anything since then.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Nice write up Timvp.

Since this thread may be marred with "trade TP!" responses, would you suggest that even being an option for the Spurs?

I think it's way too soon to give up on Parker now. But if his current trend continues, should the Spurs look into shipping him off at the deadline for a big?

[dbreiden83080]

Too much offseason nonsense with France plus Eva leaving him equals this version of Tony Parker..

[timvp]

Trade his ass


Sounds good to me!:flag:

:lol Spurs fans have been wanting to trade Tony Parker since literally his first summer league game. He'll go down as by far the most underappreciated star player in franchise history.

It seems like the only Spurs fans who have appreciated TP over the years are the ones who were fans before the championship days and can remember the 25 years of trash at point guard before some skinny kid arrived from something called Paris Basket Racing.

[TDomination]

In addition, Tony Parker's body language has bothered me for a while. and its lasted to this season as well. Specifically that highlight where Coach Pop slapped Parker's face to get him pumped, something doesn't seem right with Tony. Almost like he checked out.


I don't agree on that he is a cancer but I do agree that he looks like he has checked out. He looks disinterested, bored, tired.

Seeing the kind of person he is, i wonder if he needs a change of scenery? and i sometimes wonder if he truly listens to what Pop says to him anymore?

[dylankerouac]

I hated hearing the bad in there but I enjoyed hearing the positives even more. Thanks for sharing the analysis.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Man, I still remember TP tearing Gary Payton a new one in the first round of the 2002 playoffs

[Cane]

Ah, the championship days...when Parker was subbed out for real PG's when the team needed it the most ;) Except against Boobie Gibson of course :)

Anyway here's hoping Parker can turn things around, but I think he's been done as a primary option, and could've used a change of scenery

[timvp]

But i remember last year saying to myself that he isn't finishing well at the rim like he used to. He was still making incredible layups but at a much less frequent rate than before.

The stats simply don't back that up. If you look, last year might have been the best year of his career in terms of finishing at the basket.

Now maybe we can say this issue dates back to the Memphis series ... but I haven't gotten those numbers yet -- and I'm not sure how much six games can tell us either way.


9 games

Yeah, hopefully it is just a matter of SSS.

[Bruno]

Link? I saw him loosening up one of his arms a lot before the scrimmage (I think I posted about it) but haven't seen anything since then.

He said that yesterday on his radio show. I can give you a link to the podcast but it's in French. I also got the feeling that Parker, with Pop's agreement, was in coasting mode.

[cheguevara]

was he also in coasting mode vs the Grizz? :pctoss

IMO its all a combination of the lockout, slowing down, new teamates and maybe even his injury. I just care he plays good enough to help Spurs make the playoffs and then not coast during the playoffs again.

[eric365]

Secondly, Parker's assists per minute are way up this season.

Assists per 40 minutes
2007 - 6.1
2008 - 7.1
2009 - 8.1
2010 - 7.3
2011 - 8.1
2012 - 9.6

Also, his turnovers per minute have plummeted.

Turnovers per 40 minutes
2007 - 3.1
2008 - 2.8
2009 - 3.0
2010 - 3.5
2011 - 3.2
2012 - 1.9

The result is a fantastic assist-to-turnover ratio of 4.92-to-1. To put that in perspective, only once in the last decade has an NBA player finished with an assist-to-turnover ratio that high.


Good read as always.

Concerning the assist and turnover I think it's not his playmaking ability that has changed.

Most of his TO has always been on penetration when he look to score himself and very few when trying to make a creative assist. He goes less to the rim so far and when he goes, he is more often blocked => less TO

Most of his assists are when he finds outside shooters. RJ, Bonner, Neal are on fire and he doesn't have to share the ball with Manu => More assists

[anonoftheinternets]

The stats simply don't back that up. If you look, last year might have been the best year of his career in terms of finishing at the basket.

Now maybe we can say this issue dates back to the Memphis series ... but I haven't gotten those numbers yet -- and I'm not sure how much six games can tell us either way.



Yeah, hopefully it is just a matter of SSS.

It could be by design ... its not a coinciedence he turns it up in the 4th. While
his whole career it was more like go 100mph in the first 3 ... And Maybe the
coaching staff is incentivising his assists and less so his points.

[The ADMIRAL 50]

Great write up TIMVP, thanks :tu
the stats were huge to actually take a look at, even this early in the season



:lol Spurs fans have been wanting to trade Tony Parker since literally his first summer league game. He'll go down as by far the most underappreciated star player in franchise history.

It seems like the only Spurs fans who have appreciated TP over the years are the ones who were fans before the championship days and can remember the 25 years of trash at point guard before some skinny kid arrived from something called Paris Basket Racing.

couldnt agree with this ^^^ more as well

[ElNono]

Maybe it's temporary. Maybe Hollinger and his Fluke stat was right, and Tony isn't the exception...

While this write up documents pretty well the offensive tale (thanks LJ), I've also been concerned with his lack on intensity on defense. And it's not just this season, but something that's been waning down along with the rest of the team the last few seasons. It's not uncommon to see him not even putting a hand up to contest a shot these days, instead simply choosing to turn around and look if it's a make or a miss.

[eric365]

It could be by design ... its not a coinciedence he turns it up in the 4th. While
his whole career it was more like go 100mph in the first 3 ... And Maybe the
coaching staff is incentivising his assists and less so his points.

He can't go full speed the whole game. Nothing new
2 or 3 summers ago, he was in the same situation with the FNT than this year spurs without manu. No playmaker or clutch player outside of him

They decided with the coach after several game where he was out of gas in the 4th that he will look to pass a lot early for every player to be in the game and for him to keep energy for the 4th.

Maybe they decided with Pop to do the same

Anyway he isn't very good so far this season

[timvp]

Imo Parker's been significantly declining for the past two seasons now.Outside of the playoffs, there's no way to call last year a decline. In fact, he improved so greatly over the previous season that Hollinger called it a fluke.


Parker is the kind of player that declines seemingly overnight since he's a small and high-mileage guard that thrives through speedy penetrations to the paint.
Valid concern.


Not all assists are created equal, and his are mainly dishing it out to an open man on the perimeter, or thats what it seems like anyway, which can be gameplanned against relatively easily like the Grizz showed. Compare that with a true and elite PGs like CP3

1) The assists that aren't created equal are assists that lead to three-pointers. Tony Parker leads the NBA in such assists by a wide margin.

2) The Grizzlies cut down on the Spurs three-pointers but, tbh, that same penetrate and kick philosophy worked well in 03, 05 and 07. And the threes the Grizz mostly eliminated were by not doubling TD.

3) CP3 is a better pure point guard than Tony Parker. There's no debate on that. But comparing favorably to CP3 isn't the only judge of what a "true" PG is. I don't think TP is going to morph into John Stockton but there are signs that he can change his stripes a bit to fit what most consider "true".


Remember that RJ alley oop that Parker and the Spurs used to run? The rest of the league figured that one out easily and we never see it anymore, part of that is on RJ and the Spurs gameplan, but most of that is just how predictable Tony Parker is as well imo.

?

Most of your criticisms of Parker makes sense. This one doesn't. The league figured out a gimmick play in which Parker is only responsible for the pass ... and that's Parker's fault? Wha?

I don't think I've seen that play call this year. Though speaking of Parker, Jefferson's scoring this year can be directly attributed to Parker creating shots for him.


In addition, Tony Parker's body language has bothered me for a while. and its lasted to this season as well. Specifically that highlight where Coach Pop slapped Parker's face to get him pumped, something doesn't seem right with Tony. Almost like he checked out.

I don't think he was mentally into that game. But that happens to every player during the regular season. But, yeah, TP deserved blame.


Tony Parker's stock has been plummeting for me for the past couple of seasons, and it really fell after his big market aspirations

All of which he denied and proved false without a doubt after he signed his contract extension.


that sexting nonsense

Though an entertaining rumor, I never saw anything resembling proof.


Hard to say against a Finals MVP, but Parker's just not living up to what the Spurs are about - class, defense, and hustling on the court. In all areas, Parker has been a huge disappointment. I can't help but think of him as a cancer.

A huge disappointment in class? Again, unless TMZ is your bible, there isn't any proof of lack of class. On the court, he's about as classy as there is ... if that even matters.

Defensively, stats show little to no decline in his play despite the Spurs as a team falling off a cliff in recent years.

Hustling? He's coming off a season that saw a jump in steals and him playing the passing lanes. There are bouts of loafing but I wouldn't say Parker lacks hustle as a player.


But in all honesty, I think Parker should've been traded a while ago

When, exactly? Not before championship No. 4. 2009 was his career year. 2010 his value dropped due to injury. Earliest it would have made some sense to trade him was last year at the trade deadline -- but that wasn't exactly "a while ago" and trading him away when you have by far the best record in the NBA would have had Pop and RC committed.


he's just a very average and replaceable guard if he can't consistently be a scoring threat.Eventually, yeah that'll probably be true. But as of this second, he' not a consistent scoring threat but I wouldn't classify him as average or easily replaceable.

[timaios]

It's possible that he's declining -- although even if he is, there are signs he can adapt to his diminishing physical capabilities and still lead an elite offense. That said, judging by his ability to score when absolutely necessary, perhaps it's only a matter of time before Parker bounces back to his normal scoring level.

We'll have to keep checking in on Parker's production as the season progresses to conclusively figure out what's happening. As it stands, while Parker's go-to ability to score in the paint has fallen off for the time being, the stats also say his overall offensive impact remains a strength for this team.

Parker played a fantastic Eurobasket 6 months ago, he was the best scorer and the second best player of the tournament behind Juan Carlos Navarro who played out of his mind during all the Eurobasket with Spain.

Then Parker played great again in France with his club "ASVEL" and in the Eurocup.
At the end of november, he didn't play in a eurocup game because of an injured right soulder. His coach said at the time that Parker has been dealing with this injury for 3 months.

You can't be great 6 months ago and declining in 5 minutes.

A link about the injury :

http://projectspurs.com/2011-articles/november/report-tony-parker-suffering-with-right-shoulder-injury.html

[pawe]

Coasting mode is a relieving answer. I hope he really is. I can see his assists going up more because of the drive and dish play for the shooters.

[Brazil]

Great read timvp ! nicely put together some interesting data.

So TP is now a pass first PG but fans who wanted that for years are still not happy...

Timvp, do you have some useful stats that could demonstrate his lack on intensity on defense, to use nono expression. We cannot measure intensity for sure, but are his direct opponents scoring more on him than the previous years incl. Grizz serie?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It seems like the only Spurs fans who have appreciated TP over the years are the ones who were fans before the championship days and can remember the 25 years of trash at point guard before some skinny kid arrived from something called Paris Basket Racing.

Amen to that! :toast

[baseline bum]

It seems like the only Spurs fans who have appreciated TP over the years are the ones who were fans before the championship days and can remember the 25 years of trash at point guard before some skinny kid arrived from something called Paris Basket Racing.

Agree, but 25 years is a bit much. Silas (even post-injury) and Moore were pretty solid points, though the position went to hell for the franchise between the time when Wes Matthews took over after Moore got sick and when Antonio Daniels lost his starting job, which was a span of about 16 years. Hard to believe that's only three years longer than the period since Tim and David brought San Antonio its first.

[timvp]

Ah, the championship days...when Parker was subbed out for real PG's when the team needed it the most ;) Except against Boobie Gibson of course :)

Ah, the championship days... when a 20-year-old Frenchman schooled one of the best point guards of all-time so viciously that the opposing team had to switch assignments and change their entire defensive strategy.

:toast


While this write up documents pretty well the offensive tale (thanks LJ), I've also been concerned with his lack on intensity on defense. And it's not just this season, but something that's been waning down along with the rest of the team the last few seasons. It's not uncommon to see him not even putting a hand up to contest a shot these days, instead simply choosing to turn around and look if it's a make or a miss.

Interestingly, opposing point guards are averaging practically the same stats against him that they did back when Parker had the Twin Towers behind him and when Bowen was available to help him out. Doesn't really make sense for multiple reasons but I haven't figured out how those numbers could be lying ... especially since the point guard position is better now than it was back then.

[baseline bum]

Ah, the championship days... when a 20-year-old Frenchman schooled one of the best point guards of all-time so viciously that the opposing team had to switch assignments and change their entire defensive strategy.

:toast


Haha, Kidd was considered one of the best defensive PGs in the league until that series.

[timvp]

Parker played a fantastic Eurobasket 6 months ago, he was the best scorer and the second best player of the tournament behind Juan Carlos Navarro who played out of his mind during all the Eurobasket with Spain.

Then Parker played great again in France with his club "ASVEL" and in the Eurocup. Yeah, that makes it puzzling.


You can't be great 6 months ago and declining in 5 minutes.

Guards can decline pretty damn fast. It seems like Iverson, Francis and Marbury fell off a cliff from one day to the next.

That said, I doubt we are seeing that severe of a dropoff with Parker. If we are, at least he's being graceful about it . . .

[Amuseddaysleeper]

"I can't stop Tony Parker, OK? If I keep getting on the pick and roll, anybody can be like that. Anybody will beat you. Let me get in a pick and roll 65 times, and I can beat you, too. You get out here and play pick and roll, see how many times he will beat you"

- Gary Payton, 2004


Though he got it much worse back in '02 :lol

[manufan10]

I'll let you know around the all-star break if I'm worried. Right now, I'm not too concerned. All players go through rough patches.

And lol at all the people wanting to trade Parker. I agree with timvp that he's under appreciated by many Spurs fans, even in 2007/2009 people were dogging him.

[timvp]

Timvp, do you have some useful stats that could demonstrate his lack on intensity on defense, to use nono expression. We cannot measure intensity for sure, but are his direct opponents scoring more on him than the previous years incl. Grizz serie?

Those numbers are available. Would have to do a little bit of work to get 'em for the Grizz series but I'll make a thread about it soon since it's a pretty fascinating subject ... at least to me.

The nice thing about looking at those numbers is that they are pretty straight forward since Parker almost always has the sole job on defense of slowing the opposing point guard. He's not asked to do much in team defensive rotations or in terms of cross matching. So, in that sense, it's a pretty straight forward project.

[Cane]

Outside of the playoffs, there's no way to call last year a decline. In fact, he improved so greatly over the previous season that Hollinger called it a fluke.

Imo numbers didn't tell the story with Parker, but he did put up great stats. He's looked noticeably slower and the Grizz playoffs shows how he can be stifled if relied upon as a primary option.



1) The assists that aren't created equal are assists that lead to three-pointers. Tony Parker leads the NBA in such assists by a wide margin.

2) The Grizzlies cut down on the Spurs three-pointers but, tbh, that same penetrate and kick philosophy worked well in 03, 05 and 07. And the threes the Grizz mostly eliminated were by not doubling TD.

3) CP3 is a better pure point guard than Tony Parker. There's no debate on that. But comparing favorably to CP3 isn't the only judge of what a "true" PG is. I don't think TP is going to morph into John Stockton but there are signs that he can change his stripes a bit to fit what most consider "true".


Good stuff. I don't have anything to add other than I think Parker's assist numbers can be misleading, he can't get his team involved even like Jose Calderon can consistently and he doesn't have the legs to make teams pay like in the vintage Parker days. To me, this Tony Parker can be relatively easily gameplanned against, but thats both on Parker and the Spurs too



?

Most of your criticisms of Parker makes sense. This one doesn't. The league figured out a gimmick play in which Parker is only responsible for the pass ... and that's Parker's fault? Wha?

I don't think I've seen that play call this year. Though speaking of Parker, Jefferson's scoring this year can be directly attributed to Parker creating shots for him.


Spurs and RJ are to blame for that play too, but to me thats also an example of how predictable Tony Parker's playmaking can be, and how it can be countered, ala Grizz.




I don't think he was mentally into that game. But that happens to every player during the regular season. But, yeah, TP deserved blame.


He seemed distant and out of it ever since the Eva fiasco, that particular highlight was interesting since I don't remember that happening to Manu or Duncan, but maybe its much ado about nothing.



All of which he denied and proved false without a doubt after he signed his contract extension.

Damage control imo, although actions do speak louder than French reporters.




Though an entertaining rumor, I never saw anything resembling proof.

Entertaining for people who don't like the Spurs, but unfortunately it seems like a shitty reality for the silver and black fans. I cringe whenever Brent Barry has to talk about the Spurs on NBATV :depressed



A huge disappointment in class? Again, unless TMZ is your bible, there isn't any proof of lack of class. On the court, he's about as classy as there is ... if that even matters.

Yes, Parker's actions were absolutely despicable, especially for a family-like organization like the Spurs. Providing that TMZ was right, of course, and didn't Ms. Barry basically confirm the funny business too from her own website?



Defensively, stats show little to no decline in his play despite the Spurs as a team falling off a cliff in recent years.

Defensively, Parker's never really been a player to write much about. But from the subjective eye test, he's been slipping on that end too.



Hustling? He's coming off a season that saw a jump in steals and him playing the passing lanes. There are bouts of loafing but I wouldn't say Parker lacks hustle as a player.

True but doing so he plays off his man and has to gamble. Imo focusing on steals and passing lanes had to do more with Parker's 1v1 defense and trying to make him useful defensively.



When, exactly? Not before championship No. 4. 2009 was his career year. 2010 his value dropped due to injury. Earliest it would have made some sense to trade him was last year at the trade deadline -- but that wasn't exactly "a while ago" and trading him away when you have by far the best record in the NBA would have had Pop and RC committed.

I would've traded him during the LeBron sweepstakes and hopefully cashed in on a worthwhile big. But imo the trade offers for Parker probably weren't worth a damn



Eventually, yeah that'll probably be true. But as of this second, he' not a consistent scoring threat but I wouldn't classify him as average or easily replaceable.

If Parker doesn't have the legs anymore, than imo he is an average PG, and IIRC stats like PER indicates such as well since the playoffs. A slowed down Tony Parker doesn't seem worthwhile but the Spurs have a lot more problems than just TP9 when it comes to competing anyway

[Cane]

Ah, the championship days... when a 20-year-old Frenchman schooled one of the best point guards of all-time so viciously that the opposing team had to switch assignments and change their entire defensive strategy.

:toast



:toast I miss Tony Parker's 20 year old legs, no homo. Of course who doesn't miss the championship caliber Spurs though, damn Spurs fans are spoiled...won't ever see anything like the Duncan and Big 3 era again :depressed

[timvp]

Agree, but 25 years is a bit much. Silas (even post-injury) and Moore were pretty solid points, though the position went to hell for the franchise between the time when Wes Matthews took over after Moore got sick and when Antonio Daniels lost his starting job, which was a span of about 16 years. Hard to believe that's only three years longer than the period since Tim and David brought San Antonio its first.

I wasn't a very big fan of Moore and Silas only averaged more than 4.5 assists once during his career so I'm not sure how much of a point guard he really was ... but, yeah, I was speaking more cumulatively.

(Looking at Silas really quick, his best Ast% as a Spur was 20%. Parker's career-low is 24%. Silas was actually closer to this year's Duncan who is at 16.7% [Duncan's career-high was 19.5% ... David Robinson's was 21.7%].)

[GSH]

A couple of seasons ago, I helped a couple of guys (statisticians) compile stats that showed, conclusively, that Tony Parker drew far fewer whistles per trip to the paint than any other top-tier point guard in the league. The point was to prove that certain players simply receive more "respect" from the refs than others, and the numbers were indisputable. Their plan was to submit it to the league. But before they did, they ran it by a mathematics professor, who had also played basketball in college and understood the game as well as the numbers. What he came back with sort of caught us off guard, but it made sense.

He said that the biggest cause of the discrepancy was that Tony is not as physically strong as players like Chris Paul and Deron Williams (to name a couple). My first thought was, "bullshit... that has nothing to do with whether or not a whistle gets blown." But he went on to explain:

First, Tony does not get the elevation that many of the other top scorers get. And a lot of his shots are "scooped" upward, which means they get released much lower than a traditional shot. As a result, he said, the other guys draw contact high in the air, where it is more visible. Meh - maybe. But I still wasn't convinced.

Next, he said, Tony's cuts aren't as deep as the rest of the guys in the sample. He gets past defenders with his quickness, often making very small cuts and just scraping by the other player. Once again, my first thought was, "Okay... that should make for more contact, not less." But he went on to explain that the guys who make deeper cuts force defenders to reach at the last minute. And, more often than not, it is the reach that draws a whistle.

Finally, he said, because Tony is not as strong, and because of the way he approaches the paint, small amounts of contact tend to send him flying. And the refs just won't call fouls on those small amounts of contact - regardless of the outcome. About that time, I started thinking that it all made more sense than I wanted it to.

We went back and watched a bunch of clips of Tony vs. CP3, D. Williams, Chauncy Billups, and a few others. And what the egghead said was right. The numbers don't always tell the whole story, no matter how obvious they look. Yes, Tony draws a lot fewer whistles in the paint. But there's no zebra bias, and definitely no conspiracy. I know some people will get mad hearing someone say that Tony isn't the strongest guy out there, but it's true. Needless to say, nothing got submitted to the league.

-------
I don't know how you would prove it, but I feel like Tony has lost a little of his quickness. And given the nature of his game, even a small decrease in quickness would have a noticable impact on his results. But the numbers don't always mean what they look like. It could be that because Tim isn't drawing the hard double teams, there are more help defenders to block Tony's shots. It could be that coaches/defenders have learned to defend him a little more effectively. (All the video analysis they are doing on player tendencies is pretty amazing.)

But it could also be that things aren't as wrong as they appear. Strangely, even though his FG% is down, his FTA/36 is the highest in his career. And even though his scoring is down, his AST/36 is off the charts compared to the rest of his career (8.7 vs 6.3). And his TOV/36 is also off the charts low, compared to the rest of his career. As a result, his AST/TO ratio so far this year (4.92) is more than double his career average (2.28). So he's distributing the ball MUCH better than he ever has, and turning it over less. He's going to the paint less, but he's getting to the line more. And we're only nine games into the season.

Like I said, I feel like he's lost a half a step too. And it looks to me like he can't get out in front of a fast break like he used to. But the biggest concern is whether he can still get to the rim and score. If he improves that by mid-season, his FG% will naturally come up too - and he might be even more effective than he has been earlier in his career, because of the way he's distributing.

[Josepatches_]

Parker played a fantastic Eurobasket 6 months ago, he was the best scorer and the second best player of the tournament behind Juan Carlos Navarro who played out of his mind during all the Eurobasket with Spain.




...He played like he uses to play in Europe. Nothing new.



About Parker...today or next year...but he'll be declining. ..it's life..we must accept it....he started very young and he has a lot of miles in his legs. Plus his style of play wasn't the best to survive until the mid-30s at high level.

There is no miracles. In fact he was lucky because he never had big injuries like other players with the same style of play.

His best years are over.That's for sure. But today he's not done to score only 13 ppg on 40% .
He will play better this year.He's going to play worse every year.

[jjktkk]

There has to be some sort of decline in tp. 10 years in the league, playing for his NT, etc... That is alot of mileage on the legs. The question for tp, is can he compensate for his decline in speed and quickness?

[elbamba]

:lol Spurs fans have been wanting to trade Tony Parker since literally his first summer league game. He'll go down as by far the most underappreciated star player in franchise history.

It seems like the only Spurs fans who have appreciated TP over the years are the ones who were fans before the championship days and can remember the 25 years of trash at point guard before some skinny kid arrived from something called Paris Basket Racing.

I remember when Strickland went down with an injury and the Spurs tried to use Willie Anderson and Elliott as their PGs. Man, those were the days.

I think the Spurs even tried to use Vinney Del Negro in that role, before signing AJ for good.

[elbamba]

Agree, but 25 years is a bit much. Silas (even post-injury) and Moore were pretty solid points, though the position went to hell for the franchise between the time when Wes Matthews took over after Moore got sick and when Antonio Daniels lost his starting job, which was a span of about 16 years. Hard to believe that's only three years longer than the period since Tim and David brought San Antonio its first.

You forget the major role Mo Cheeks played in San Antonio. Without him, we never get Strickland for 2 1/2 years.

[TDomination]

Parker played a fantastic Eurobasket 6 months ago, he was the best scorer and the second best player of the tournament behind Juan Carlos Navarro who played out of his mind during all the Eurobasket with Spain.

Then Parker played great again in France with his club "ASVEL" and in the Eurocup.
At the end of november, he didn't play in a eurocup game because of an injured right soulder. His coach said at the time that Parker has been dealing with this injury for 3 months.

You can't be great 6 months ago and declining in 5 minutes.

A link about the injury :

http://projectspurs.com/2011-articles/november/report-tony-parker-suffering-with-right-shoulder-injury.html

Interesting, I wonder if this injury is still lingering. It might very well be

[timaios]

...He played like he uses to play in Europe. Nothing new.

Come on, Juan Carlos Navarro is a fantastic player, but he was jordanesque during the Eurobasket. He was making insane shots after insane shots in every games.
It was a thing of beauty... except when he played against France ! :bang

[Cane]

GSH just put up an outstanding post. Interesting stuff about Parker's strengths, foul calls, and how he compares to top tier PG's in that regard :toast

Anyway about injured PG's, yea I'm going to sound like I'm just trashing more on Parker, but remember when Parker did get injured and Manu led the team to its best victories of that season and the 7th seed? Imo Parker's impact was realistically replaceable on the Spurs unless he can shut me up and show that its just early in the season woes. Of course, Spurs are winning with Ginobili out as well....

[Brazil]

Once thing a lot are over looking IMO is that one of the most negatively impacted player by Tim being not dominant anymore is TP. Life is much easier for a PG when you play behind a dominant front court especially when you are a PG like TP making most of his impact inside.

[Cane]

Once thing a lot are over looking IMO is that one of the most negatively impacted player by Tim being not dominant anymore is TP. Life is much easier for a PG when you play behind a dominant front court especially when you are a PG like TP making most of his impact inside.

True. The French frontcourt during the summer was one of the best in the tournament and helped Tony play like Tony

[lefty]

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxas1sNzPh1qjvsoxo1_r1_250.gif

[Brazil]

very interesting post GSH


I know some people will get mad hearing someone say that Tony isn't the strongest guy out there, but it's true. Needless to say, nothing got submitted to the league.



on that point I think nobody will get mad hearing isn't the strongest guy out there. TP has never been an athletic freak to begin with, he is one of the rare nba player not capable to dunk. I'm not sure I can find 10 other guys in the league not capable to dunk tbh.

TP has for him to be a quick healer and to be fearless to go among the trees to get lay-ups. BTW saying easy layups make me :lol easy maybe but hard to go there.

One thing we cannot complain about TP is his toughness, I remember some PO games TP hitting the floor every two possessions and he would keep on going over and over.

[ElNono]

Interestingly, opposing point guards are averaging practically the same stats against him that they did back when Parker had the Twin Towers behind him and when Bowen was available to help him out. Doesn't really make sense for multiple reasons but I haven't figured out how those numbers could be lying ... especially since the point guard position is better now than it was back then.

I tell you one way: there's been quite a bit of upgrades league-wise at the PG position. Guys like CP3, Deron blossomed to the top. Some guys have stepped up their games (Conley, Lowry, Barea, Ridnour). Then there's the new batch of talented kids that were not even around back then (Rose, Evans, now Rubio).

[ElNono]

Timvp, do you have some useful stats that could demonstrate his lack on intensity on defense, to use nono expression. We cannot measure intensity for sure, but are his direct opponents scoring more on him than the previous years incl. Grizz serie?

Don't get me wrong. It's just the impression I get watching the games and looking at some games from older (3,4 seasons ago) seasons.

To be frank, it might not even be entirely Tony's fault. He used to get regularly chewed by Pop when he fucked up on D, and we very seldom see that anymore (Pop had a vintage night like that the other day).

Some players need to be lit up sometimes to really make them focus on that.

[phxspurfan]

He's never been able to handle offseason ball plus NBA ball.

[jcrod]

:lol Spurs fans have been wanting to trade Tony Parker since literally his first summer league game. He'll go down as by far the most underappreciated star player in franchise history.

It seems like the only Spurs fans who have appreciated TP over the years are the ones who were fans before the championship days and can remember the 25 years of trash at point guard before some skinny kid arrived from something called Paris Basket Racing.

Sadly this has always been the case and always will.

[cantthinkofanything]

TP has never been an athletic freak to begin with, he is one of the rare nba player not capable to dunk. I'm not sure I can find 10 other guys in the league not capable to dunk tbh.


pvdR6b6hwek

But I hear ya. He's never dunked in traffic that I can remember.

[hater]

I never wanted to trade Parker until he got raped by Michael Conley and Grievis Vazquez.

fucking scrubs Conley and Vazquez completely humilliated the man. Now he is just a shell of himself.

I don't see Parker getting back to any 2009 form at all. All we can hope for is he can be useful once playoffs come and won't spread his legs like last time.

[timvp]

pvdR6b6hwek

But I hear ya. He's never dunked in traffic that I can remember.

Also notable about that play: It was the last time Rod Strickland ever played in the NBA.


3:13 Rod Strickland Lost Ball. Stolen by Tony Parker. 77-87
3:09 77-89 Tony Parker made slam dunk.
3:04 Houston Full Timeout.
3:04 Andre Barrett enters the game for Rod Strickland.

Strickland never played again. Ever.

Ironic that Strickland career began by getting opportunity in San Antonio and ended on the Tony Parker ownage in San Antonio.

:hat

[therealtruth]

I don't think TP has ever thrown it down in traffic. He's got like one dunk where he was on a fastbreak and all by himself. Parker lacks the creativity and vision to be a 9-10 apg. How often are his assist for dunks, layups, or points in the paint. For all the people that say the reason is because of the Spurs system do they seriously think if the Spurs got Chris Paul he would average less than 9 apg.

[RodNIc91]

What about jumpshots timvp?? Do statistics show some decline in that as well? Because seriously I haven't seen him shoot this bad. Even his FT look as they used to be.

[TD 21]

Shoulder tendinitis would make sense. Because I just don't buy that Parker's ability to finish in the paint and at the rim has fallen off that to that extent in that short a span. Point guards heavily reliant on speed and quickness generally don't gradually decline, but this is too step a drop for even that type of player.

What's most alarming is that they're going to need probably 18-22 from him a lot of games with Ginobili and the odd 25-30 point game. Right now, for the most part they've gotten by without it, but at some point they're going to go into a slump from three and when they do, then what? They'll be no source of consistent offense, to go with the inconsistent rebounding and the porous defense.

[timvp]

He's never been able to handle offseason ball plus NBA ball.Hasn't he done BS with the French NT every summer except for one or two years?


I never wanted to trade Parker until he got raped by Michael Conley and Grievis Vazquez.
Me too, tbh :lol

After Parker got embarrassed in the playoffs and then went to the French media to say the championship run was over, I wanted him gone.

But during the loooooooooong offseason, I eventually changed my mind. Mostly just because I think he can become more valuable at some point than he was after that Memphis disaster. Plus, with Duncan and Ginobili still around, the timing to tear everything down wasn't quite right.

Hopefully TP retires in a Spurs uniform but unless the rebuilding process goes absolutely perfectly, it probably won't happen.

[jermaine]

:lol Spurs fans have been wanting to trade Tony Parker since literally his first summer league game. He'll go down as by far the most underappreciated star player in franchise history.

It seems like the only Spurs fans who have appreciated TP over the years are the ones who were fans before the championship days and can remember the 25 years of trash at point guard before some skinny kid arrived from something called Paris Basket Racing.

I wanted him gone after he said we are done. We were what!?! One win away from the best record in the NBA an he says that. Trade that Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_

[timvp]

What about jumpshots timvp?? Do statistics show some decline in that as well? Because seriously I haven't seen him shoot this bad. Even his FT look as they used to be.

Good question and I probably should have included it in the OP.

FG% on jumpers outside of ten feet
2007 - .414
2008 - .398
2009 - .423
2010 - .371
2011 - .369
2012 - .393

Parker's jumper isn't a problem. It's actually better than it's been in a few years.

And his 77.5% at the line is near his career-high.

[cantthinkofanything]

Also notable about that play: It was the last time Rod Strickland ever played in the NBA.


3:13 Rod Strickland Lost Ball. Stolen by Tony Parker. 77-87
3:09 77-89 Tony Parker made slam dunk.
3:04 Houston Full Timeout.
3:04 Andre Barrett enters the game for Rod Strickland.

Strickland never played again. Ever.

Ironic that Strickland career began by getting opportunity in San Antonio and ended on the Tony Parker ownage in San Antonio.

:hat

Good stuf timvp. Full circle.

[RodNIc91]

Good question and I probably should have included it in the OP.

FG% on jumpers outside of ten feet
2007 - .414
2008 - .398
2009 - .423
2010 - .371
2011 - .369
2012 - .393

Parker's jumper isn't a problem. It's actually better than it's been in a few years.

And his 77.5% at the line is near his career-high.

Then I guess his problem is... he is sucking from 3pt land. :lol But seriously I hope Tony has an extra gear of improvement. If someone can make a difference its him

[Gagnrath]

Ah, the championship days...when Parker was subbed out for real PG's when the team needed it the most ;) Except against Boobie Gibson of course :)

Anyway here's hoping Parker can turn things around, but I think he's been done as a primary option, and could've used a change of scenery

Remember a rookie Boobie Gibson. Frightening thing Daniel has improved, hes still a physically limited jump-shooting back-up point guard, but he is a top of the line back-up point guard. He provides some fairly dead-eye shooting, has a pretty good vision. He's short and sorta slow but he is smart enough to play the passing lanes and be in position and he does realize he's physically limited and gives his all to over-come it.

[callo1]

Nice writeup TVP, but I think is is easy to get a little over analytical here. Tony does not have to score as much anymore, and he has not transitioned to being a distributer yet. I am hoping Tony can make that transition now, but I have some doubts. TP has always had problems finding the right balance, but to be honest and fair to him, the injury situations over the last few years have hindered him in that regard. It seems like at the time TP starts to figure out the balance between scoring and dishing, a key injury happens, and the TP has to go into scorer mode again.

Tbh, I think Pop's offense has also held TP back a bit. If the Spurs ran more allioops and stuff, I think Parkers career numbers assist wise would have been better. If the Spurs would have run more before last season, TP would have better numbers as well.

With Manu hurt, parker can't be traded unless it is for another pg, so the people here that keep saying trade him for a big need to rethink things. Neal is no where near ready to play the point and TJ has been injury prone.

Hopefully TP's game will evolve so he can fit in with the youth movement.

[MannyIsGod]

Of course his stats are down. More than ever teams are collapsing on Tony because there is almost nothing else around him capable of driving the lane. Tony has never been this isolated as a creator for the offense at any point for extended games in his career. In the past when Manu has been out he's had George Hill and a better Duncan. That isn't the case now.

The fact that Tony is doing the same on the defensive end should show you that he hasn't lost a step.

Correlation does not mean causation.

Also, Tony's still getting to the rim. He's not being stopped by defenders on his way there. He's missed a few gimmies here and there, but for the most part I think the defenses are keying on Tony first and foremost.

PS DPG will be wacking it to this thread

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, I forgot to add your assist numbers pretty much show what I've said. When you factor in that he's taken over in the fourth when its actually mattered in several games this year I don't think its a matter of "can't" but rather he's choosing his spots.

[callo1]

Of course his stats are down. More than ever teams are collapsing on Tony because there is almost nothing else around him capable of driving the lane. Tony has never been this isolated as a creator for the offense at any point for extended games in his career. In the past when Manu has been out he's had George Hill and a better Duncan. That isn't the case now.

The fact that Tony is doing the same on the defensive end should show you that he hasn't lost a step.

Coloration does not mean causation.

Also, Tony's still getting to the rim. He's not being stopped by defenders on his way there. He's missed a few gimmies here and there, but for the most part I think the defenses are keying on Tony first and foremost.

PS DPG will be wacking it to this thread

All great points Manny. A team like OKC with their overall team length is a terrible situation for TP as well.

**What the hell is wrong with me...five posts in one day, I need to stop before I resemble that post wh*re Laker Lanny. Tbh, I would have to be completely braindead or comotose to fall to his dung heap level**

[SA210]

He needs a little Eva back in his life

[GSH]

Here's the problem with the numbers after just 9 games:

Blocked shots are counted as FGA's. And almost ALL blocks happen at the rim, or in that 3-9 foot range - which happens to be where Tony's shooting percentages are suffering. This earl in the season, just a couple of extra blocks and a couple of shots rattling out can destroy shooting percentages.

Look at it this way. From 3-9 feet, Tony is 4/12. One less block, and one shot getting a good bounce, and he's .500 instead of .333. A couple less blocks at the rim or getting a couple of rolls on layups could improve that number a bunch, too. On the other hand, his assist numbers could be up just because of the extra 3's that Jefferson has hit. This early in the season, just a few blips can cause some real distortions in the stats.

I guess the real question is: are the blocks his fault, or just the result of a few extraordinary defensive plays? (Or even a few lucky swipes?) Are the misses at the rim because he is a step slow, or just a few careless shots? (Or bad rolls? Or un-called fouls?)

[Brazil]

He needs a little Eva back in his life

:lol yeahh maybe he just needs somebody in his life

[timvp]

Apparently TP got my email and decided to play the exact opposite tonight :smchode:

[Proxy]

Apparently TP got my email and decided to play the exact opposite tonight :smchode:

email him every time we get worried... he's gonna need to play like his 07 MVP self, especially with Manu and TJ out.

[jag]

Shouldn't the thread title be "What *Ails* Tony Parker?"

[ElNono]

Apparently TP got my email and decided to play the exact opposite tonight :smchode:

You were saying? :lol

[DPG21920]

Of course his stats are down. More than ever teams are collapsing on Tony because there is almost nothing else around him capable of driving the lane. Tony has never been this isolated as a creator for the offense at any point for extended games in his career. In the past when Manu has been out he's had George Hill and a better Duncan. That isn't the case now.

The fact that Tony is doing the same on the defensive end should show you that he hasn't lost a step.

Correlation does not mean causation.

Also, Tony's still getting to the rim. He's not being stopped by defenders on his way there. He's missed a few gimmies here and there, but for the most part I think the defenses are keying on Tony first and foremost.

PS DPG will be wacking it to this thread

You mad? Why does it bother you so much that everything I said, Timvp said? I didn't hate on TP. I didn't say trade him. I made an observation and now you are butthurt because like I said Timvp would back me up :lol?

It sucks for the Spurs and I'm not celebrating it, but a simple "I was wrong about what you said DPG" would suffice.

Tony isn't getting to the rim. At all. Your observation is incorrect. Even with declining athleticism, you still will have some nights where you look good (even Vince Carter mashes it every once and a while).

TP was able to get to the rim at will just a year or so ago with no Manu and a declining Duncan, so that logic doesn't explain it. Good news is it could just be rust and he shakes it off, but like I said before the early signs point to a player who's declined physically.

[GB20]

:lol

[DPG21920]

I believe in coasting, but when a team needs wins with their best player out no one "choses" to decline in every single category offensively. Sorry.

[MannyIsGod]

I believe in coasting, but when a team needs wins with their best player out no one "choses" to decline in every single category offensively. Sorry.

Maybe you should look at the stats again. Unless you don't know what every single category means.

[MannyIsGod]

You mad? Why does it bother you so much that everything I said, Timvp said? I didn't hate on TP. I didn't say trade him. I made an observation and now you are butthurt because like I said Timvp would back me up :lol?

It sucks for the Spurs and I'm not celebrating it, but a simple "I was wrong about what you said DPG" would suffice.

Tony isn't getting to the rim. At all. Your observation is incorrect. Even with declining athleticism, you still will have some nights where you look good (even Vince Carter mashes it every once and a while).

TP was able to get to the rim at will just a year or so ago with no Manu and a declining Duncan, so that logic doesn't explain it. Good news is it could just be rust and he shakes it off, but like I said before the early signs point to a player who's declined physically.

all butthurt? What exactly shows that I'm butthurt?

TP sure looked like he had declined tonight. Sure had trouble getting to the rim tonight.

In any event, I prefer the Tony that gets more assists and takes fewer shots and then takes over in the fourth even if that means you guys automatically go to the decline card because tonight we saw the Parker you've been clamoring for and in the end it was a negative.

[ElNono]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/popcorn_2.gif

[Kori Ellis]

Watching the past three games more closely than I watched the previous games in the season, my guess is that there's something wrong with Tony's back (in addition to his shoulder, if that's what he said).

[DPG21920]

Maybe you should look at the stats again. Unless you don't know what every single category means.

Did you see the numbers I told you about that Timvp posted in this thread? Whenever you lose an argument to me (which is becoming more and more frequent) you resort to semantics. Do you think I literally meant "every single category" or was I implying, as the stats posted show, that in most every major area of offense TP has dramatically declined to date?


all butthurt? What exactly shows that I'm butthurt?

TP sure looked like he had declined tonight. Sure had trouble getting to the rim tonight.

In any event, I prefer the Tony that gets more assists and takes fewer shots and then takes over in the fourth even if that means you guys automatically go to the decline card because tonight we saw the Parker you've been clamoring for and in the end it was a negative.

What shows you are butthurt :lol? How about the fact I didn't post in this thread and you bring me up out of no where because you do what you typically do (call people morons and argue semantics and say stupid shit even when people back up what they say with statistical evidence while you wow us with what your amazing basketball mind "see's with your own eyes").

How stupid is it to cling to one game? Really? Even you have to know that is stupid but it's your stubbornness and unwillingness to say "I shouldn't have mocked what you said, even though I don't agree because the numbers do back up what you told me". By your logic, I could mock the shit out of you by saying "Well man, I guess it looks like Tim's wheels have fallen off with this game huh bro :lol". Do you see how stupid that is?

Just because a guy has one good game with regards to what has been ailing him to date, doesn't erase everything before. Most would say Vince Carter has declined physically, but you still see him have games where his legs look great. I'm not saying TP is at that stage, never did. I simply said I saw the numbers and watched him play and it was alarming enough to speak about. You scoffed me for that.

LMAO at saying we got the Parker we have been clamoring for :lol. That is the TP we've had our entire lives. And you are also trying to say that because TP looked better physically tonight than he has that it's the reason they lost.

You have some good takes, but you look really silly with some of your arguments and yes, you do appear butthurt since I called you out on it.

[MannyIsGod]

Out of no where? YOU posted on my freaking profile and I'm the butthurt one. WOW.

Ok, DPG. I'm butthurt and you're right. I'm done going in useless circles with you.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/popcorn_2.gif

tbh I don't see what AIDS and the popcorn reaction to AIDS have to do with this legitimate thread tbhbhhbhhbh h hh hh hh h h

[DPG21920]

Out of no where? YOU posted on my freaking profile and I'm the butthurt one. WOW.

Ok, DPG. I'm butthurt and you're right. I'm done going in useless circles with you.

I posted on your profile last night laughing as a joke. Right after we argued about it. You posted in this thread (a serious thread that backed up what you argued with me about) out of no where when you and I hadn't spoken.

You are butthurt because Timvp (like I told you would happen) backed up what I said. The only one going in useless circles is you. You acted like a douche and tried to be condescending towards me for having this take on TP. Are you calling Timvp an "over-reactor" and is his thread "pointless to discuss" because it's just days after I said it and you scoffed me for it? But now that people are agreeing with me, you want to be done even though you felt enough need to post in this thread and give your "take" even though it was the same damn thing I brought up. Funny.

You are normally fine, but I think you fail to realize how you come off in situations like this. It's ok to disagree with the opinion, but when someone has a legit take you shouldn't go into message board mode and scoff and act douchey about it if you don't like getting called out.

[GSH]

Anybody watching the Clippers? Chauncy Billups is 6 years older than Parker, and coming off a groin injury. And he would run circles around Tony, too.

I don't know what the fuck I was thinking. Parker isn't so old and worn out that he can't perform. Bullshit.

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. He's either nursing an injury, or his head isn't in it. And I don't think he's injured.

[timvp]

Well, the good news tonight is that Parker didn't look like he was declining physically. His burst and everything was there. He was able to get the basket and looked extra quick at times.

The bad news is he left his brain in OKC.

[ElNono]

Well, the good news tonight is that Parker didn't look like he was declining physically. His burst and everything was there. He was able to get the basket and looked extra quick at times.

The bad news is he left his brain in OKC.

I'm gonna disagree and why are you hating?, tbh

[DPG21920]

Yes, he looked very good tonight and the best thing would be he is starting to shake off whatever rust he had. I hope to see this speed be the norm and not a rare occurrence. Spurs need him badly.

[SequSpur]

dbags..

[timvp]

Shouldn't the thread title be "What *Ails* Tony Parker?"

Shiii--ii-i-iii, you right. Thanks, good catch.

Apparently I left my brain in OKC too.

[Calispursfan11]

I believe that TP has rapidly declined physically over the past year. He is still really good, but not elite unless he can overcome the physical decline in other ways. I don't know if he can since his game relies largely on speed and quickness both of which are bound to take a major hit right around 29-30. He is not a great passer, nor as smart as players like Manu and Kidd. So this doesn't look good.

[Man In Black]

I think because of the shortened season plus compression of games, that the coach has made it a point for him to use his jump shot to limit his punishment on the way to the rim.

They tried doing that to Manu in the past, and it makes some sense, with the way the team has scoring from other contributors(depth), that TP needn't try to be Finals MVP TP in game 10.

I see burst and I see speed. It's intellect that fails TP at times, often the most critical, but it's that kind of pressure that has made Big Balls Parker play big WHEN IT COUNTS MOST.

[Russo21]

He misses Eva

[Pauleta14]

I think he's "coasting", nothing more...

As Timvp said, TP showed that he didn't lose THAT much of his physical abilties, we can all agree that lest night was more mental than anything.

He is not in "PO mode", not "a la" Robert Horry, but almost, he is now a veteran and knows it's gonna be a long, tiresome reg season.

+ Apprently his shoulder is injured

[urunobili]

Mike Conley's ripped his confidence away?

[jag]

Yes, he looked very good tonight and the best thing would be he is starting to shake off whatever rust he had. I hope to see this speed be the norm and not a rare occurrence. Spurs need him badly.

Oh, now it's "rust"?

I figured your post would look more like this:


Yes, he looked very good tonight and the best thing would be he is starting to overcome the massive physcial decline he's in the midst of. I hope to see this speed be the norm and not a rare occurrence. Spurs need him badly.

:toast

[jag]

Shiii--ii-i-iii, you right. Thanks, good catch.

Apparently I left my brain in OKC too.

I just figured you did it intentionally for street cred purposes.

[z0sa]

great thread thus far tbh

[DPG21920]

Oh, now it's "rust"?

I figured your post would look more like this:



:toast

I said I hope it was rust.

[TDMVPDPOY]

gettin exposed nothing to see here

[xmas1997]

Don't we have enough TP threads already?????????????????

[ducks]

parker killed the rockets tonight

[MannyIsGod]

:lol rust

[timvp]

Parker sucked last game but the last two games have gone a long way towards shutting up any talk of decline. Hopefully he keeps it up and makes the title of this thread look stupid.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Parker sucked last game but the last two games have gone a long way towards shutting up any talk of decline. Hopefully he keeps it up and makes the title of this thread look stupid.

if u going to be a hater, you must continue to hate,

u lack hatred to be a hater...

let the haters continue their work hating

[mathbzh]

The other possibility is the worst: Is this simply a matter of Parker declining? At 29, could he have reached the end of the road of his star years? To answer this question, let's look at similar players in NBA history.
...


I was depressed when I read that. But when I checked, each player on your list has either declined slowly or suffered major injuries.
None fall of the cliff in a couple of months for no apparent reason.

It's likely that Parker will decline soon if he is not already.
But if he is healthy, I hope he can be a solid starting PG for a couple more years.

[xmas1997]

Sean said TP had a bruised leg.

[MI21]

A lot of Spurs fans got exactly what they were asking for early this season with Parker. Criticisms have aways been that they want Tony to be :cry true point guard who distrubutes and plays like an unathletic white guy :cry

Fact of the matter is, as always, Parker is at his best when he is taking a good amount of shots and being relentless offensively. He can average 8.5APG, but he is less valuable to the Spurs playing like that.

Hopefully this look into what a passive, pure point guard Tony Parker looks like has opened up a few fans eyes and will help them appreciate what he gives the team when playing his natural style.

[spursfan09]

Sean said TP had a bruised leg.

yup. You could see it on TV

[timvp]

The car ahead of me this morning:

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6968/ails9.jpg

I think the basketball gods are mocking me . . .

[Amuseddaysleeper]

For a second I thought that was snow in your photo :lol

But I see now that it's rain.

[therealtruth]

A lot of Spurs fans got exactly what they were asking for early this season with Parker. Criticisms have aways been that they want Tony to be :cry true point guard who distrubutes and plays like an unathletic white guy :cry

Fact of the matter is, as always, Parker is at his best when he is taking a good amount of shots and being relentless offensively. He can average 8.5APG, but he is less valuable to the Spurs playing like that.

Hopefully this look into what a passive, pure point guard Tony Parker looks like has opened up a few fans eyes and will help them appreciate what he gives the team when playing his natural style.

You're devaluing the power of assists. When your point guard is taking all the shots it means everybody else is standing around and watching and being passive. When he's passing everyone feels involved in the game and plays harder on defense.

[FvckMavs]

Nice PS work, Timvp.

[romain.star]

The car ahead of me this morning:

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6968/ails9.jpg

I think the basketball gods are mocking me . . .

Parisian weather in SA

[GSH]

Have you ever seen a turnaround like this one? The original post was on target when it was created. Tony was far from bad, but compared to how he's playing now? Not so much. How do you explain it?

[BanditHiro]

Have you ever seen a turnaround like this one? The original post was on target when it was created. Tony was far from bad, but compared to how he's playing now? Not so much. How do you explain it?

obvious jinx thread is obvious?


gettin exposed nothing to see here

what a PoS

[timvp]

It's possible that he's declining -- although even if he is, there are signs he can adapt to his diminishing physical capabilities and still lead an elite offense. That said, judging by his ability to score when absolutely necessary, perhaps it's only a matter of time before Parker bounces back to his normal scoring level. I've started the research on the Offensive Thoughts for TP and the numbers so far are pretty interesting :reading

[BanditHiro]

I've started the research on the Offensive Thoughts for TP and the numbers so far are pretty interesting :reading

his jump shot is back or coming back

[Spurcase]

Wow! What a difference a few weeks makes.

[SequSpur]

bandwagoners...

[ducks]

suck

[ElNono]

bump

Haven't been the same since the All-Star break... very mild back2back games against the West elite...

Just tired?

[timvp]

~25, 8, 60% since All-Star game before tonight. Good trolling, tbh :lol

[siraulo23]

whatever happened to tp's 3-6 ft floater? feels like he hasnt attempted one in a couple of games

[ElNono]

Forgettable last two games though... Westbrick 36 points, The ghost of Jason Kidd 4-5 from downtown... Just 12 shots taken against the Mavs...

[ElNono]

~25, 8, 60% since All-Star game before tonight. Good trolling, tbh :lol

:lol

[NASpurs]

Parker getting shat on by the opposing point guards that he's supposed to, nothing to see here.

[TDMVPDPOY]

he was even upstagged by the french alah in this game

[MannyIsGod]

bump

Haven't been the same since the All-Star break... very mild back2back games against the West elite...

Just tired?

lost a step, TBH.

Also, Tim Duncan's wheels feel off.

[crc21209]

Jason Kidd played probably his best game of the year. When he's hitting shots, you know somethings wrong. Lately he's had games of 3 points, 6, 8, etc. Tonight was just a bunch of BS shots going in...

[xellos88330]

Tony just looked tired. These few days of rest will be good. Nothing to worry about.

[Blackjack]

Actually got to see a few games recently, seems to me Parker got the worst of the exchange between he and Rose.

Though it looked like somethin serious for Rose at the time, the way he laid on the floor, not sure it hasn't been more detrimental to Parker - the fact that he seemingly shook it off made some think otherwise.

Hard to explode if you've got swellin in or around the knee.

[mathbzh]

Actually got to see a few games recently, seems to me Parker got the worst of the exchange between he and Rose.

Though it looked like somethin serious for Rose at the time, the way he laid on the floor, not sure it hasn't been more detrimental to Parker - the fact that he seemingly shook it off made some think otherwise.

Hard to explode if you've got swellin in or around the knee.

Not sure if you are serious...
Parker average almost 25/8 with 58FG% since that game.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Good read. Honestly, the major concern I have with Parker is how much he gets rejected. Quite honestly, it's why I never embraced the guy. I never have felt like he can get us a basket when we really need that crucial score. Especially against teams with size. It seems like whenever we play the Lakers over the last few years, you can pretty much forget about Tony Parker being a factor, he just gets stuffed nonstop. Last year against Memphis, he was terrible. I think that goes to show why everyone always felt Manu was our ticket to success. It wasn't long ago when we were all begging for Parker to be traded. Yes, he is playing awesome this season in certain areas of his game. But I still think we need to ship him out after this season. He can bring us a high draft pick, or a good young big man.

[Alain]

People need to understand that TP is almost always the headline in opponents defensive game plans. Since 2004 and the Lakers series, most coaches make it a priority to stop him cause they know he's going to score 35/50 pts if they let him do his thing.

On the other hand, Manu is unpredictable and brings many little things (intangibles, instant clutchness, momentum reversal, contagious hustle...) that makes him very difficult to plan on. Then they prefer focusing on Tony and Tim and let Manu do his things while simply asking their players to be very physical on him.

[Paranoid Pop]

Good read. Honestly, the major concern I have with Parker is how much he gets rejected. Quite honestly, it's why I never embraced the guy. I never have felt like he can get us a basket when we really need that crucial score. Especially against teams with size. It seems like whenever we play the Lakers over the last few years, you can pretty much forget about Tony Parker being a factor, he just gets stuffed nonstop. Last year against Memphis, he was terrible. I think that goes to show why everyone always felt Manu was our ticket to success. It wasn't long ago when we were all begging for Parker to be traded. Yes, he is playing awesome this season in certain areas of his game. But I still think we need to ship him out after this season. He can bring us a high draft pick, or a good young big man.

Sorry but you're so dumb, you want to trade the only member of the big 3 still in his prime :wow, it means that you want to rebuid before Tim retires or that you somehow hope the move would bring us someone who can carry a team immediately. Please throw some ideas of realistic trades ideas that won't make every laugh or stfu.

[Blackjack]

Not sure if you are serious...
Parker average almost 25/8 with 58FG% since that game.

Ain't been able to watch every game, just a few here and there since then.

The numbers look good and he's obviously played well, but I haven't seen the same explosion since that game.

Great players can still put it together when they're ailin. Whether he is or not, not sure. But he hasn't looked quite right since that collision to me.

[Donut]

Tony Parker has always been inconsistant. He goes a few games playing out of his mind then he disappears for a stretch. This year is just more obvious cuz he's been putting up insane numbers and at times has looked like a franchise guy. But the fact is he isn't. All star yes. Franchise no. Let's just hope we can get through the rest of the season with him at a high level.

[Brazil]

Tony Parker has always been inconsistant. He goes a few games playing out of his mind then he disappears for a stretch. This year is just more obvious cuz he's been putting up insane numbers and at times has looked like a franchise guy. But the fact is he isn't. All star yes. Franchise no. Let's just hope we can get through the rest of the season with him at a high level.


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[ducks]

magic johnson on friday against thundersaid he belongs in the mvp discussion

[K-State Spur]

Forgettable last two games though... Westbrick 36 points, The ghost of Jason Kidd 4-5 from downtown... Just 12 shots taken against the Mavs...

in fairness, kidd gets open shots against everybody (he's taken 159 this year, and if it's even mildly contested, he doesn't shoot it) - it's just a question of whether or not he makes them.

[TVI]

in fairness, kidd gets open shots against everybody (he's taken 159 this year, and if it's even mildly contested, he doesn't shoot it) - it's just a question of whether or not he makes them.

This.

I've watch Kidd all year. He's old and slow, but even old and slow can still hit a set shot (like Mario Elie at the end of his career).

If the Spurs aren't dog tired, they close out on Kidd, and he either rushes those shots, or he doesn't take them. Kidd is a smart player, and that doesn't go away with age, but he's not a scoring threat unless he's wide open.

[GSH]

I thought it was time to resurrect this thread. It worked so well the first time. Maybe Timvp needs to slap some fresh mojo on it. Because right now, it's the fourth quarter of the Memphis game, and all I can think is WTF Parker?

[Spurtacus]

I hope is nothing more then him being tired. Need to lock up that #2 seed to get him rest. He's carried the team for most of the year.

[Russo21]

7 turnovers and counting tonight

[ElNono]

so, I don't buy Sefolosha is doing anything special. I mean, I definitely see they're packing the paint, but I thought that's what his newly-rebuilt jumper was for. Even in Game 1 he was nothing special (he wasn't really needed with Manu taking over), and Westchuck was still covering him. Is it a mental issue?

Biggest game of the season coming right up, and Tony needs to be "MVP conversation" Tony, not the washed up vet we saw in Games 3/4...

[Spurs da champs]

I love how Tony was talking all that shit being arrogant as hell & he has yet to fully back it up, some mvp btw deferring to Danny Green smh.

[jesterbobman]

Bumping this. Parker hasn't been great this season, and people will justifiably blast him for the last 7 minutes of tonight's game. But he wasn't amazing last year after 3 weeks either. His play so far does not necessarily mean he is going to suck for the whole season.

[ElNono]

Bumping this. Parker hasn't been great this season, and people will justifiably blast him for the last 7 minutes of tonight's game. But he wasn't amazing last year after 3 weeks either. His play so far does not necessarily mean he is going to suck for the whole season.

He said he was sick but he wasn't making excuses...

[TDMVPDPOY]

he hasnt been amazing for 11 games...

[ElNono]

bump

He just doesn't look right, IMO. Is he still hurting? Still trying to find his form?

[Brazil]

ankle, finger... he is obviously banged up

[Embedded]

Boredom. Pure and simple.

[lefty]

Playoffs are looming

His is starting to shit the bed

[freetiago]

He hasnt been able to get to the rim as well since coming back from injury
his jumpshot has still been on which allowed him to score
its understandable since he was actually suppose to come back from his injury around this time
but it wouldnt be a stretch to say weve seen playoff Parker appear during these stretch of close games

[EVAY]

He hasnt been able to get to the rim as well since coming back from injury
his jumpshot has still been on which allowed him to score
its understandable since he was actually suppose to come back from his injury around this time
but it wouldnt be a stretch to say weve seen playoff Parker appear during these stretch of close games

Wold that be the 'playoff Parker' who won one finals MVP to the two that Tim won in the three finals they have played together?

[EricB]

I like how the "playoff Parker" meme got blown up years ago but ignorant fucktards like to still pull it thinking its relevant.

[ElNono]

ugh

[lefty]

playoff form TBH

[sammy]

Thank God for Timmy, Leonard, Neal & DeColo are the only ones playing in this game! Splitter looking soft, Diaw looking fat and Green is somewhere else tonight and of course, Parker not here for the big game! WTF! Parker if you are hurt then sit and let Mills come in as you are hurting the team!

[sammy]

Why the fuck is Green in the game! Splitter still playing soft! What a worthless bitch!

[Gagnrath]

Green isn't all bad out there. Now Diaw is playing decent. I think Leonard just got his first All Star foul call though there which is cool.

[ElNono]

just hope he's just gassed... we need him

[RD2191]

his vagina

[ElNono]

lol parker nba final mvp canard

we meet again

:lmao

[ElNono]

just hope he's just gassed... we need him

[jeebus]

Playoffs are looming

His is starting to shit the bed
almost to the daye, too.

[Robz4000]

He's dead, Jim.

[HI-FI]

so, I don't buy Sefolosha is doing anything special. I mean, I definitely see they're packing the paint, but I thought that's what his newly-rebuilt jumper was for. Even in Game 1 he was nothing special (he wasn't really needed with Manu taking over), and Westchuck was still covering him. Is it a mental issue?

Biggest game of the season coming right up, and Tony needs to be "MVP conversation" Tony, not the washed up vet we saw in Games 3/4...
playoff parker imho

[DesignatedT]

Playoff Parker was a beast last season.

[Sean Cagney]

Playoff Parker was a beast last season.He looked pretty good until he got hurt.

[DesignatedT]

He looked pretty good until he got hurt.

Lol pretty good

[Sean Cagney]

Lol pretty good

That was an understatement man :lol I was just being a wise ass to his haters on here who said he looked bad or playoff Tony or that 6-23 crap. I never got the hate on Tony in here from Gino fans as if they are in competition? It goes both ways I guess but their countrymen or fans act like idiots downing someone on our so called fave team which makes me believe they are just a fan of the player and will be gone when their fave player retires. Real Spurs fans can appreciate both and admit when one is doing well or bad.

[weeks]

i didn't catch the game, did tony look like shit or something? this team only goes as far as parker can take us. period.

[gilmor]

Conserving energy.. for the Play-offs..

[DPG21920]

For those who believe this ^, I will ask two questions:

1) Is it wise for TP to conserve energy at the expense of Duncan having to expend more?

2) If he's just coasting and the Spurs are winning despite that, why bother playing him? If after getting 3 weeks off (more than anyone else on the team) he still needs to conserve energy, would it not be more prudent just to rest him?

Honest questions to the above mindset..

[DesignatedT]

Duncan plays the same way every night. Pop could get away playing Duncan less right now but decides not too. Not sure why but I don't see Tony's struggles having any direct impact on Tim's minutes. Been wondering all year why Tim hasn't rested more. I mean he looks fantastic but Pop has always been paranoid when it comes to him and it's like he trusts Tim and his body a lot more now for some reason.

[Mikeanaro]

For those who believe this ^, I will ask two questions:

1) Is it wise for TP to conserve energy at the expense of Duncan having to expend more?

2) If he's just coasting and the Spurs are winning despite that, why bother playing him? If after getting 3 weeks off (more than anyone else on the team) he still needs to conserve energy, would it not be more prudent just to rest him?

Honest questions to the above mindset..
Believers dont have an answer for that kind of questions they love to trust like the Charles Manson sect.

[HI-FI]

Believers dont have an answer for that kind of questions they love to trust like the Charles Manson sect.
:lol

[superjames1992]

i didn't catch the game, did tony look like shit or something? this team only goes as far as parker can take us. period.
2-9, 4 points, 2 assists for our MVP PG, tbh...

[DesignatedT]

2-9, 4 points, 2 assists for our MVP PG, tbh...

And we won by 30 lol

[DPG21920]

I'm not arguing the results. I'm saying if we can win by 30 with him coasting & he feels the need to coast why not shut him down? I'd rather him as rested as possible.

[Robz4000]

He wasn't coasting tonight. He's done so a few times this season but overall he's just lost a step or two. Whether that's due to injury, fatigue, or the wheels finally falling off I have no clue. Hopefully the bench can play this well in the playoffs.

[freetiago]

guys been terrible all season
cant remember the last time I saw him hit a floater
missed like 4 tonight

its amazing when you look at the stats and it shows that hes decent but the court doesnt show it at all
every point guard lights him up and hes a step slow offensively
its not like hes even setting up teammates to offset less scoring either
Tiago/Tim get more assists then he does

[Mugen]

he's absolutely coasting tbh. Pop wasn't very happy with his play and benched him 4mins into the 3rd. As to why he's playing...about half the team deserves extended rest tbh so his main job the last week and a half has been to soak up minutes against a bunch of horrible teams.

the April stretch will be a lot more telling on where Frenchie is at heading into the playoffs tbh, not a big concern until he's terrible against good teams.

[SpursFan86]

I'm not arguing the results. I'm saying if we can win by 30 with him coasting & he feels the need to coast why not shut him down? I'd rather him as rested as possible.

Our actual starting 5 hasn't had much time to play together this year due to injuries. They finally all get healthy and have the chance to develop chemistry as we get closer to the playoffs. Not sure just throwing him into the playoffs after not playing for a month is the best idea...especially with how tough the West will be this year.

Just playing a little devil's advocate. I'm not sure what exactly is going on. But I'm not too worried at this point. If Parker continues to struggle even in this tough stretch coming up and we start dropping lots of games, then maybe I'll start to worry.

[Robz4000]

he's absolutely coasting tbh. Pop wasn't very happy with his play and benched him 4mins into the 3rd. As to why he's playing...about half the team deserves extended rest tbh so his main job the last week and a half has been to soak up minutes against a bunch of horrible teams.

the April stretch will be a lot more telling on where Frenchie is at heading into the playoffs tbh, not a big concern until he's terrible against good teams.

I know it was early on in the season but he's been pretty bad against all the elite teams they played outside a game against the Guests and Houston (only good scoring-wise but he hero'd a lot of shots). Again, it was early in the season and he might've been coasting, but so far there's only been like two games where he played like last year.

[DPG21920]

Sure that makes some sense, but he wasn't playing well enough for Pop not to be extremely worried. Worried enough to give him 3 weeks off when he didn't have any major injury. If after giving him 3 weeks off he still hasn't shown an elevated level of play, to me that is somewhat concerning. Very could be coasting, but I would feel better about that diagnosis if he was playing at a level high enough before the 3 weeks off to where you could say that.

It's been a struggle despite decent numbers and he looks worn out despite getting 3 weeks off.

[Mugen]

let's revisit in a couple of weeks tbh. I think he's coasting hard.

[DesignatedT]

Parker knows what's at stake here. You can tell he's half assing it out there the majority of the time. I do agree with the sentiment of might as well let him rest completely though. Nobody feels good about collecting million dollar pay checks while sitting behind a bench though.

[DPG21920]

A little ray of hope: It looks like a reporter asked TP about his past 3 games (5 PPG on 29% FG) and he didn't mention being tired or injured. He simply said that it's hard to get in a groove when minutes are sporadic.

[benefactor]

Coasting, tbh.

[exstatic]

Coasting, tbh.

[Darius McCrary]

For those who believe this ^, I will ask two questions:

1) Is it wise for TP to conserve energy at the expense of Duncan having to expend more?

2) If he's just coasting and the Spurs are winning despite that, why bother playing him? If after getting 3 weeks off (more than anyone else on the team) he still needs to conserve energy, would it not be more prudent just to rest him?

Honest questions to the above mindset..

Number 2 is the real one. If he needs to coast, just rest him, and play Cory Joseph. We were winning games with Cory when Parker was out.

[exstatic]

Number 2 is the real one. If he needs to coast, just rest him, and play Cory Joseph. We were winning games with Cory when Parker was out.

You have to stay in game condition. Even if he's not shooting, he's running up and down the floor.

[ElNono]

well, that was that...

[Darius McCrary]

.

[DesignatedT]

450807375310499840

[Mugen]

he's absolutely coasting tbh. Pop wasn't very happy with his play and benched him 4mins into the 3rd. As to why he's playing...about half the team deserves extended rest tbh so his main job the last week and a half has been to soak up minutes against a bunch of horrible teams.

the April stretch will be a lot more telling on where Frenchie is at heading into the playoffs tbh, not a big concern until he's terrible against good teams.


let's revisit in a couple of weeks tbh. I think he's coasting hard.

http://www.openlounge.org/lunargame/files/2011/07/Pat-On-The-Back.jpg

[gilmor]

You guys are overacting, tbh.

Based on last year playoffs where Parker played his ass off most of the time, this year, he is taking it easy. Turning on when it matters.

[superbigtime]

I think Tony is totally fine and pacing himself but will continue asserting himself if Pop just plays him the minutes.

[playbonner15]

450807375310499840
Parker with the not too modest goods :lol

[Das Texan]

Parker trolling Spurs fans.

[Brazil]

Parker with the not too modest goods :lol

:lol

[313]

450807375310499840:lmao

[ElNono]

Is he playing tomorrow?

[Darius McCrary]

He's looking too old. Finished.

[Dex]

He's looking too old. Finished.

Looks really bad. Wasn't this fool supposed to come back all rejuvenated and shit after taking the whole summer off?

[DPG21920]

I've learned my lesson about shoveling dirt on the TP grave when he's not healthy. He, like many other players, looks drastically different when healthy vs hurt. Too early to tell if he's injured or just hit the decline.

[Robz4000]

He's got Ebola imo