The 2012 Spurs Defense Update Thread

[timvp]

Well, hopefully this is the low point. Last night, the lost to the Bucks despite shooting 60% from the floor. And, unfortunately, it wasn't a fluke. The Spurs defense so far this season has been horrible.

Opponents are shooting 47.1% against the Spurs this season, which ranks 26th in the league. San Antonio is allowing 104.4 points per 100 possessions -- and that also has the Spurs ranked 26th.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Here are a few graphs to illustrate the deterioration of the Spurs once legendary defensive standards.

Field Goal Percentage Allowed - Rank
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8127/defperrank.jpg


Field Goal Percentage Allowed
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9665/defper.jpg


Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions - Rank
http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/9189/dpppr.jpg

Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions
http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/5392/dppp.jpg



A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

3. How good can this team be defensively?

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?

[arles]

Those graphs are just depressing...

[cantthinkofanything]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

3. How good can this team be defensively?

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?

All that beign said, Splitter and Leonard are a good start.


I appreciate the work you put into this but the answer to #1 is pretty simple. Robinson aging and leaving, Duncan aging, Bowen aging and leaving. Certainly other factors exacerbated the situation but I think it's a matter of premier defensive players getting old.

As to #3 and #4, it all hinges on having good defensive bigs that can allow the other players to play tight d, knowing that they've got a safety net under the rim with a shot blocker or two.

[jjktkk]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio??

Other than Duncan, lack of a shotblocking presence. Not being able to replace Bowen.


2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense??

Integrate Splitter, and Leonard into the starting lineup, or at least give them major minutes.




3. How good can this team be defensively??

Top 10.


4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?

The big 3 have to play at an elite level. RJ stepping up. Neal, Splitter, and Leonard, contribute consistantly.

[z0sa]

Not a good enough defensive big next to Timmy. That simple.

[urunobili]

Sick stats! something is wrong with the roster of the last 3 years that much is clear...

[Fabbs]

Other than Duncan, lack of a shotblocking presence. Not being able to replace Bowen.
Choosing to replace Talls and Bowen with Mike Finley, Matty Bonner and Soft Dick.

FIFY

[Trill Clinton]

Outside of Duncan's decline the most obvious problem is another presence in the paint to help 21 out. Also we never found a replacement for Bowen. Players feed off one another so if they see a guy out there busting his ass on defense it's contagious, everybody else is going to follow suit and play their best D, draw charges, etc.

This team doesn't have that player to intimidate the other team and bring that defensive energy the Spurs of old were known for. Kahwi is looking promising but he is still raw when it comes to defending NBA caliber players.

Only way to improve defense this year is to make a trade for a defensive talent at the wing position or bring in a agile big man, neither will happen.

With the current roster this team could be average defensively. They just don't have that player who can lock down the opposing teams best player and our team defense is sluggish at times.

[jjktkk]

Well, hopefully this is the low point. Last night, the lost to the Bucks despite shooting 60% from the floor. And, unfortunately, it wasn't a fluke. The Spurs defense so far this season has been horrible.

Opponents are shooting 47.1% against the Spurs this season, which ranks 26th in the league. San Antonio is allowing 104.4 points per 100 possessions -- and that also has the Spurs ranked 26th.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Here are a few graphs to illustrate the deterioration of the Spurs once legendary defensive standards.

Field Goal Percentage Allowed - Rank
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8127/defperrank.jpg


Field Goal Percentage Allowed
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9665/defper.jpg


Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions - Rank
http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/9189/dpppr.jpg

Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions
http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/5392/dppp.jpg



A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

3. How good can this team be defensively?

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?


Choosing to replace Talls and Bowen with Mike Finley, Matty Bonner and Soft Dick.

FIFY

You didn't fix anything tbh.

[quentin_compson]

For years, the Spurs had two of the best defenders in the league on their team in Bowen and Duncan. Bowen is gone, Duncan is old (though he is still one of the better defenders on his position).
It also seems that Pop and the FO were hoping to get away with bringing in a fair share of players that aren't good individual defenders while still being able to form a good defensive unit - which hasn't worked, I'm afraid.

As for how good this current squad can be defensively - middle of the pack is the best we can hope for, I guess. The personnel required to be an elite defensive team just isn't there. But with potentially good defenders like Tiago and Leonard playing a somewhat important role and getting constant playing time, the Spurs might at least be a decent one.

[Ginobili2Duncan]

1. I blame the FO. It was clear in the middle of the 2009 season when Bowen started receiving less minutes that the perimeter defense was declining. Perimeter players are taking Spurs' players off the dribble in isolations with no resistance. And Duncan has unfairly been expected to shoulder the entire load defensively for about four years now.

They've also failed to get the proper help for Duncan in the front-court. It was CLEAR in game 5 of the 2008 WCF that the Spurs were in need of another big who could protect the basket. It has been long overdue. Duncan has been relied on to carry the load offensively and defensively.

2. There isn't much the Spurs can do at this point except continue to play the young guys and hope they improve. Splitter and Leonard have been bright spots on an other wise horrific defensive team. But, if they're serious about improving defensively then they HAVE to find a way to obtain another big. Preferably, one who can defend quicker PF's

3. If personnel stays as it is right now, I say their ceiling is a middle-of-the-pack defensive team. And I'm being generous.

[Fabbs]

Opponents are shooting 47.1% against the Spurs this season, which ranks 26th in the league. San Antonio is allowing 104.4 points per 100 possessions -- and that also has the Spurs ranked 26th.
timvp we were dicussing this on another board in analyzing the "rebounds = rings" Pat Riley statement. Not only was the "r=r" exposed as not true, it lead to the #1 common stat thread among Champs was defense against opponents shooting. (opponents shooting percentage). This was about 7 years ago, would be interesting to see how it's held up since say 2000. Then from say 2005 onward (the end of Spursball as we knew it.)

[Leetonidas]

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

http://straighttotheleague.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/bru-ce-bowen.jpg

http://www.behindthebasket.com/storage/post-images/TDuncan%20champ%20trophy.jpg

http://davidgaines.com/images/stock/color_father_time.gif

[bus driver]

im not worried

:flag:

[dbestpro]

Two names. Bonner and Blair.

[TDMVPDPOY]

pop still thinks he knows small ball...

[WeNeedLength]

pop still thinks he knows small ball...

Pop thinking small ball would ever be effective is a better statement I would say.

[ggoose25]

I really don't think we have bad individual defenders. We just cant get them to play good team defense. I think there are myriad reasons including the lack of a regular training camp, laziness on rotations, and the lack of defensive minded big men.

What we need is another 6'10'' -7' footer to complement Duncan. Someone who is obviously younger and a more athletic shot blocking presence in order to give the perimeter players someone to funnel their guys into. Blair and Splitter are not the answers

[dylankerouac]

What we need is another 6'10'' -7' footer to complement Duncan. Someone who is obviously younger and a more athletic shot blocking presence in order to give the perimeter players someone to funnel their guys into. Blair and Splitter are not the answers

We have Malcolm Thomas now but Pop will probably play him for a series, see that his intuitions are correct and Thomas has no corporate knowledge and the Spurs will send him packing to the D-league.

[Dex]

Those graphs are just depressing...

[SA210]

1) Pop turning into Don Nelson and giving up on his own philosophy of defense first, and his stubbornness just because he's questioned rather than what's best for the team. He lost his damn mind.

2) Cutting Bruce Bowen. Come on man, at least keep him in the FO or on the sidelines as a coach, but of course Pop holds grudges and he's the decider, and he decided that Bruce should go.
:pop::pctoss

3) Horrible FO decisions, not recruiting players who are defensive minded (a BIG included) as in years past....waaaaaay past. And letting go of Scola (again a personal decision on Pop because Scola called him out on his lies in the media).

4) Pop

5) Pop

6) Pop

7) Pop

8) Pop

9) Pop

10) Pop

Edit: adding a #11

11) the MEDIA! for being little pussies and not pressing the issue for either being stupid and agreeable with the horrible decisions of Pop (gullible assholes), or for being afraid of asking the real tough questions, and if you read my post in another thread, one producer from a local news station already admitted to me it was the ladder!

Media :pctoss

P.S. If someone knows how to get these graphs to Pop, please do, and include a note that points out how defense declined suddenly when he cut Bruce and when he decided to back-stab himself and throw "defense first" into the garbage can. Ask him how that decision is going for him when looking at the graph and our success since then.

[Fabbs]

1) Pop turning into don Nelson and giving up.......

P.S. If someone knows how to get these graphs to Pop, please do, and include a note that points out how defense declined suddenly when he cut Bruce and when he decided to back-stab himself and throw "defense first" into the garbage can. Ask him how that decision is going for him when looking at the graph and our success since then.
You are not invited to the next PollyAnna Poppers gathering, Mister!

[Horse]

The layups are unforgivable and inexcusable. However for some reasons teams have also hit really tough shots against us. The D will get better and hopefully bonner will somehow end up the odd man out.

[portnoy1]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?
Pop and RC
2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?
Get players that can play defense through the draft and trades
3. How good can this team be defensively?
3-6 maybe
4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year? at least a 10 with an unstoppable offense(green bay packer style, if that makes sense)

[blackfire12]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

3. How good can this team be defensively?

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?

1. You could blame Pop and co. for the decline in defense but it's much more complicated than that. Obviously with the trade of Bowen, losing a cast of vets that had just clicked so well, the decline in Duncan, it's natural we're here now. Unless other changes were made and we had either drafted or somehow lured other big names. It's sad going from a motto and almost a lifestyle in the spurs organization where defense wasn't just another word, to something like small ball.

2. I think the spurs have done all they can. Clearly they still recognize defense as a key part to winning championships otherwise they wouldn't have drafted Leonard. Perhaps they kept Green because of his surprising, almost impressive, defense and in a sense being a lite version of George Hill. I just hope that it isn't a fluke. Manu will be Manu and try to bring the best of both worlds. The biggest, and most glaring issue, is the lack of bigs and that's where the Spurs are short. Dice retiring and not able to entice a big like Kaman/Nene/Chandler (lol) is disheartening but that's the way it is in the NBA.

3. I think the spurs can be good, not great like in 2005 and before but not atrocious where teams will walk all over us. It may take some time to mesh and meld but I think the defense can be above average.

4. It's so hard to say or put a value on "good" when it comes to the NBA. One day you're playing lights out and the next you're in the gutter. We were good last season until Memphis steam rolled us in playoffs. Everything that happened last year aside, we need to be playing that good pre All-Star break every night and into the playoffs to win it all.

[manufan10]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

3. How good can this team be defensively?

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?

1. Age. The Spurs are trying to use an aging Duncan to anchor the defense. He just doesn't have the explosiveness that he once had. Also, not being able to find a big man to play next to Duncan has hurt as well. I believe that if the Spurs would have been able to find one, then the loss of Bowen wouldn't have had a significant effect.

2. Start Duncan and Splitter together. I think that Blair's energy would be better served by coming off the bench. Also, give more playing time to the guys who work hard on the defensive end.

3. They were ranked around 12 or so last year, and I think that's plausible this year. While their defense seems to be trending downward, I think that 26 is not how they really rank. I think it can be attributed to the shortened training camp. I think we'll see the defense pick up more throughout the season.

4. I honestly don't know. This is going to be a weird season. There's already strange occurrences happening. Like the fact that on the 3rd night of 3 games in a row the teams had been undefeated. (I don't know if they still are or not.) If the Spurs are able to get in to the playoffs, then I believe they will have a chance to win it all. It doesn't matter where they rank statistically.

[baseline bum]

Tim got old, Bruce retired, Bonner got traded for, Blair got drafted, and Dick sucks; it ain't hard to tell.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Timvp in rare form this season :tu
Didn't realize the defense was so bad statistically, watching them play, I actually thought we were paying a better brand of defense this year compared to last year

[Old School 44]

Here's a chart I found that kind of sums it up.

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o518/tcatz/2012Season.jpg

[underdawg]

All you need to know:

Matt "the Assassin" Bonner
Year MPG
07-08 - 12.5 mpg
08-09 - 23.8 mpg
09-10 - 17.9 mpg
10-11 - 21.7 mpg

[jgome21]

The D is struggling cuz we don't have anyone intimidating in the paint. We don't have too many threats to block/alter shots outside of Duncan. Duncan's not the same player he used to be and is a step behind on his rotations. Since Bruce and Jacque Vaughn left, our on ball defense on guards haven't been good at all. Ginobili is solid, but isn't healthy at the moment. TP can't guard anybody. Leonard has shown promise but is still a rookie. Our team D and rotations should be able to improve as the season progresses but will always have key mismatches due to individuals.

[SA210]

The D is struggling cuz we don't have anyone intimidating in the paint. We don't have too many threats to block/alter shots outside of Duncan. Duncan's not the same player he used to be and is a step behind on his rotations. Since Bruce and Jacque Vaughn left, our on ball defense on guards haven't been good at all. Ginobili is solid, but isn't healthy at the moment. TP can't guard anybody. Leonard has shown promise but is still a rookie. Our team D and rotations should be able to improve as the season progresses but will always have key mismatches due to individuals.

And all this starts at the top. Pop and the FO

[cantthinkofanything]

Two pages of virtually the exact same take. I can't think of any other issue that Spurstalk is as unified about.

[silverblk mystix]

1) Pop turning into Don Nelson and giving up on his own philosophy of defense first, and his stubbornness just because he's questioned rather than what's best for the team. He lost his damn mind.

2) Cutting Bruce Bowen. Come on man, at least keep him in the FO or on the sidelines as a coach, but of course Pop holds grudges and he's the decider, and he decided that Bruce should go.
:pop::pctoss

3) Horrible FO decisions, not recruiting players who are defensive minded (a BIG included) as in years past....waaaaaay past. And letting go of Scola (again a personal decision on Pop because Scola called him out on his lies in the media).

4) Pop

5) Pop

6) Pop

7) Pop

8) Pop

9) Pop

10) Pop

Edit: adding a #11

11) the MEDIA! for being little pussies and not pressing the issue for either being stupid and agreeable with the horrible decisions of Pop (gullible assholes), or for being afraid of asking the real tough questions, and if you read my post in another thread, one producer from a local news station already admitted to me it was the ladder!

Media :pctoss

P.S. If someone knows how to get these graphs to Pop, please do, and include a note that points out how defense declined suddenly when he cut Bruce and when he decided to back-stab himself and throw "defense first" into the garbage can. Ask him how that decision is going for him when looking at the graph and our success since then.

Well, shit.

This is it...great post...

I've been saying this for the last year...

Pop is done....has been done for awhile...

Timmy should only be playing the first 5 to 6 minutes at the start of the game (not 10 or 11 minutes in a row)...then come back in at the start of the 2nd qtr...play --3 to 4 -- minutes...sit again...play last 2 minutes before the half...then do this in the 2nd half again...

Tiago and Leonard---at least 35 minutes---no less...

Bonner....




fuck me...

who am I kidding?

[cantthinkofanything]

Well, shit.

This is it...great post...

I've been saying this for the last year...

Pop is done....has been done for awhile...

Timmy should only be playing the first 5 to 6 minutes at the start of the game (not 10 or 11 minutes in a row)...then come back in at the start of the 2nd qtr...play --3 to 4 -- minutes...sit again...play last 2 minutes before the half...then do this in the 2nd half again...

Tiago and Leonard---at least 35 minutes---no less...

Bonner....




fuck me...

who am I kidding?

Every crappy season that goes by provides more ammo to the "Of course he won 4 titles. Look who was on the team." argument.

[silverblk mystix]

Every crappy season that goes by provides more ammo to the "Of course he won 4 titles. Look who was on the team." argument.

ya' gotta admit...it is a pretty solid argument...

[cantthinkofanything]

ya' gotta admit...it is a pretty solid argument...

Honestly, I was slow to turn on Pop. But I'm a believer that we could be talking about a ring or two more with a better coach. Just like a ring or two less with a worse coach.

[ivanfromwestwood]

All that beign said, Splitter and Leonard are a good start.


I appreciate the work you put into this but the answer to #1 is pretty simple. Robinson aging and leaving, Duncan aging, Bowen aging and leaving. Certainly other factors exacerbated the situation but I think it's a matter of premier defensive players getting old.

As to #3 and #4, it all hinges on having good defensive bigs that can allow the other players to play tight d, knowing that they've got a safety net under the rim with a shot blocker or two.good stuff man. arent you a troll? lol jk i agree with this 100% wings need to be able to force guys to go base line right into a waiting big.

[jesterbobman]

Tim's playing less minutes, and hasn't been a flat out dominant defender. Father Time. The minutes he's not playing replaced by less effective defensive players(Not many players at Duncans level).

Other players would've been OK with Prime Duncan, but aren't able to provide defensive help(Duncan could've carried them in times past). Standard arguments in place of Bonner and Blair.

The type of guy we need isn't going to be easy to get, and the team lacks depth at Big spots, and premium defensive perimeter players are gone(Bowen retired, Manu injured).

If we could get a good #2 defensive big, we could return, but hard to see that with limited trade assets, particularly in terms of salary to match contracts.

[GSH]

Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions
http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/5392/dppp.jpg



A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?



If you go looking for the reason(s) for the big change in defensive rank by searching the Spurs' stats, you are going to come away scratching your head. That's because it's not all there. You can't look at the Spurs defense in a vacuum, especially when you're talking about rank.

Look at the graph of Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions, and the years between 2004 and 2008, which is where the HUGE decline in the Spurs' defense occurred. One thing you notice is that the movements in the Spurs' graph are similar to the league-average graph, just more pronounced. 2004 was the Spurs best season, in terms of points allowed. In the following off-season, the league implemented new rules regarding hand-checking, blocking fouls, and defensive 3 seconds. The rules were changed to open up offense, and the graph bears that out. The points allowed increased across the league. But the changes had more of an impact on the Spurs, because of the way they played defense. Since then, there have also been several "rule clarifications" for officials (like the way they used the restricted arc), that had similar effects on the league, and on the Spurs. The changes affected everybody, but they had more of an impact on the Spurs, and helped close the gap between them and other teams.

With the current rules (and the current use of the rules) I believe that it is no longer possible to play defense the way the Spurs did in 2004. That has to account for a portion of the difference between then and now.

One other thing that has closed the gap is the fact that a lot of teams were forced to start paying attention to defense. Some of the Spurs change in rank has to do with the fact that the other teams got better at defense.

That doesn't explain everything, obviously. But once you eliminate some of those effects, it's a lot easier to find the other differences in the Spurs' defense within the stats. Things like decline in Duncan's minutes, the decline in Duncan, the lack of a second legitimate big. I think one of the biggest things to affect that particular graph (Points/100 Poss.) is the amount of second chance points the Spurs give up now. Since an offensive rebound doesn't start a new possession, it means that teams get a lot fewer dry possessions than they used to. You can see it in the decline in Tim's rebounding numbers.

One thing is for sure - the Spurs aren't going to see much defensive improvement by doing the same old things with the same old people. If they really want to improve this season, they are going to have to commit to it - and that means trading somebody. It won't be popular.

[cantthinkofanything]

Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions
http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/5392/dppp.jpg



A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

3. How good can this team be defensively?

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?


If you go looking for the reason(s) for the big change in defensive rank by searching the Spurs' stats, you are going to come away scratching your head. That's because it's not all there. You can't look at the Spurs defense in a vacuum, especially when you're talking about rank.

Look at the graph of Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions, and the years between 2004 and 2008, which is where the HUGE decline in the Spurs' defense occurred. One thing you notice is that the movements in the Spurs' graph are similar to the league-average graph, just more pronounced. 2004 was the Spurs best season, in terms of points allowed. In the following off-season, the league implemented new rules regarding hand-checking, blocking fouls, and defensive 3 seconds. The rules were changed to open up offense, and the graph bears that out. The points allowed increased across the league. But the changes had more of an impact on the Spurs, because of the way they played defense. Since then, there have also been several "rule clarifications" for officials (like the way they used the restricted arc), that had similar effects on the league, and on the Spurs. The changes affected everybody, but they had more of an impact on the Spurs, and helped close the gap between them and other teams.

With the current rules (and the current use of the rules) I believe that it is no longer possible to play defense the way the Spurs did in 2004. That has to account for a portion of the difference between then and now.

One other thing that has closed the gap is the fact that a lot of teams were forced to start paying attention to defense. Some of the Spurs change in rank has to do with the fact that the other teams got better at defense.



You make good points but one thing you're overlooking or not commenting on is the divergence of the Spurs correlation with the rest of league starting in 2008 or so. From 1998 to 2007, there was a strong positive correlation between the Spurs and the league. But even though new rules have been put in place to open up the offense, the league trend in points allowed per 100 possessions is heading down. However, the Spurs is continuing to rise. To me, it indiciates a severe problem with either the core personel (which everyone has commented on) and/or the coaches' lack of being able to adapt to a new situation (whether it's due to different players, different rules, or a predominant change in thinking by the other teams).

[therealtruth]

A good step towards correcting it would be starting the best defenders. You can't allow teams to get easy looks early otherwise they will get hot. I think for now that means start Green and Splitter. Play aggressive on the perimeter and force guys to shoot over TD and Splitter.

[TD 21]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

3. How good can this team be defensively?

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?

1. Pop and Buford. Only an idiot or an unabashed front office apologist would think otherwise. Then again, that's basically the same thing.

2. Acquiring an impact or potential impact defender at power forward, who's worthy of logging around 30 mpg. They can do this, or at least attempt to do so, by offering Blair, Anderson and their 1st.

3. If they do that, they could probably be in the 6-8 range, because there actually are a number of solid defensive pieces. And by making the trade I suggested, they'd be getting rid of one of their worst defenders and further limiting the minutes of another.

4. They'd have to at least be in the 6-8 range. The fact that they're a lethal offensive team at full strength could potentially make up for them being slightly under elite defensively.

[Dex]

Here's a chart I found that kind of sums it up.

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o518/tcatz/2012Season.jpg

:lol

[mexicanjunior]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

Popovich and his lineups this year. Also, the roster in general as designed by Pop and the FO.

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

Start Splitter, sign a defensive minded big and reduce Matt Bonner's minutes to 5-8 max during situational 3 point shooting needs.

3. How good can this team be defensively?

If Splitter starts and gets 30+ minutes, Leonard's minutes are increased to 20-30 and Manu comes back healthy, we could be top 15 but that is about the ceiling considering Parker and Jefferson are defensive liabilities and Duncan cannot carry the interior defense by himself anymore.

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?

Top 5 in defense, to go along with being top 10 in offensive efficiency would make them a contender but it would take major roster moves to make that happen.

[Interrohater]

What is the correlation between the "space the floor" method and the decline in defense? Maybe it's just me but it seems that the rise of the Bonner era may have been a catalyst for the rise of the defensively inept era.

When we had two bigs in the paint and one solid defender outside, we were a difficult team to beat. We're currently going through what we went through with DRob before Timmy got here. There was never a real solid presence nearby. Then came the perfect storm of tough, gritty perimeter defenders with two talented bigs inside (Dallas Mavericks 2011 anyone?) and the Spurs won in 99, then 2003. Because of the two talented perimeter defenders (Bowen and whoever), the Spurs were able to continue winning even with mediocre talent supporting Tim.

One Tyson Chandler would turn this team around as it did in Dallas. I know that the FO is looking under every rock, but if they want to remain competitive, they need to bring in as many no-name bigs as possible and give them all a shot. Maybe we can find our next Gary Neal, defensively speaking.

[ElNono]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

3. How good can this team be defensively?

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?

1. If success starts at the top, failure shouldn't be any different, especially when it's the magnitude of what you posted here. While there are factors that might diminish the blame somewhat (contracts making it more difficult to retool the roster, attracting free agents, etc), there are also flat out bad decisions (Scola, re-upping soft and poor defensive players like Bonner/RJ, stopping accountability on the defensive end, etc).

2. The first order should be to return defensive accountability. You can twist and turn your roster all you want, but if your coach keeps watching a layup parade and doesn't lit up/yanks/reduces minutes/flat out trades the suspects, then why would anybody put forth the effort? I think that is an important first step.
Then, there will need to be some roster changes, simply because some guys just really have no idea how to defend, period, and because some of our best defenders are getting old, and need some help.

3. Bottom top 10 if Leonard turns out to be a solid contributor and Splitter ends up playing about 30mpg. They're big ifs, so a more realistic scenario would be middle of the pack like last season.

4. Top 3. I was going to say top 5, but the reality is that the wear on Tim is only gonna get worse as the season goes on, and for a realistic playoff run his defensive production is only going to get worse unless he gets substantial help. That means the defensive quality overall really needs to be top notch. I really miss those days, tbh.

[Russ]

Field Goal Percentage Allowed - Rank
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8127/defperrank.jpg




This is the mirror-image of the Matt Bonner's minutes "ascendancy" graph . . .

(I admit I'm a scapegoater. :lol:lol:lol)

[therealtruth]

What is the correlation between the "space the floor" method and the decline in defense? Maybe it's just me but it seems that the rise of the Bonner era may have been a catalyst for the rise of the defensively inept era.

When we had two bigs in the paint and one solid defender outside, we were a difficult team to beat. We're currently going through what we went through with DRob before Timmy got here. There was never a real solid presence nearby. Then came the perfect storm of tough, gritty perimeter defenders with two talented bigs inside (Dallas Mavericks 2011 anyone?) and the Spurs won in 99, then 2003. Because of the two talented perimeter defenders (Bowen and whoever), the Spurs were able to continue winning even with mediocre talent supporting Tim.

One Tyson Chandler would turn this team around as it did in Dallas. I know that the FO is looking under every rock, but if they want to remain competitive, they need to bring in as many no-name bigs as possible and give them all a shot. Maybe we can find our next Gary Neal, defensively speaking.

Splitter is not Tyson Chandler but can be effective if given minutes. I still can't figure out why Pop doesn't embrace playing TD and Splitter together. Everytime I've seen them playing together the defense has been quite solid.

[timvp]

Here's a chart I found that kind of sums it up.

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o518/tcatz/2012Season.jpg

Classic :lol

[xmas1997]

Splitter is not Tyson Chandler but can be effective if given minutes. I still can't figure out why Pop doesn't embrace playing TD and Splitter together. Everytime I've seen them playing together the defense has been quite solid.

Maybe Pop is tanking it?

[Brazil]

It's also possible that between the new players to integrate (and I'm including Splitter) and the lack of training camp, the roster is lacking automatism.

This is not explaining everything of course but it must be a factor

Defense is first a team effort

[Brazil]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

Tony Parker.

He sucks on the defensive side and he said spurs are done :cry ... it has killed spurs motivation.

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

Trade parker for a big

3. How good can this team be defensively?

Bench parker

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?

very ?

[lmbebo]

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?
- starts with FO and Pop. They haven't addressed the needs in a few seasons now. The world has seen the gaping holes the spurs have had. Spurs never addressed them adequately. They've always looked at Tim has being the Tim of his 20s. He can no longer anchor a defense and hasn't been able to in a few years now. You can excuse an offseason, but to go 3-4 years without addressing the issue is inexcusable.



2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?
- To win a championship, you need talent. You can't teach height. We need a legit big man. Blair experiment is over. Bonner is over utilized. He works hard, but he's got a very low ceiling. Splitter is getting there. But we need another big, plain and simple.
- would help to have a defensive stopper. I haven't been able to watch a lot of games, but from all accounts on here Leonard has the possibility of being that person. Maybe Green. But they are both a season or 2 away from being that kind of defender.


3. How good can this team be defensively?
- we get 10-15, we'll be at our peak.

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?
- They have to be top 10 at minimum. IF they could get into the top 5, then they would have a legit shot at a championship.

If things don't turn around, I think we have a real possibility of missing the playoffs this year. We have a winning record at home, but we're losing on the road. Young team, injuries, etc. But it adds up quickly and our cushion for dealing with these problems is minimal. TP hasn't played like he once did. Spurs may dig themselves a hole too deep that we can't dig ourselves out of.

[jjktkk]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

Tony Parker.

He sucks on the defensive side and he said spurs are done :cry ... it has killed spurs motivation.

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

Trade parker for a big

3. How good can this team be defensively?

Bench parker

:lol, Plus Parker can't rebound and block shots for shit!

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?

very ?

[Russ]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

Tony Parker.

He sucks on the defensive side and he said spurs are done :cry ... it has killed spurs motivation.

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

Trade parker for a big

3. How good can this team be defensively?

Bench parker

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?

very ?

But Parker is great, though.

[GSH]

You make good points but one thing you're overlooking or not commenting on is the divergence of the Spurs correlation with the rest of league starting in 2008 or so. From 1998 to 2007, there was a strong positive correlation between the Spurs and the league. But even though new rules have been put in place to open up the offense, the league trend in points allowed per 100 possessions is heading down. However, the Spurs is continuing to rise. To me, it indiciates a severe problem with either the core personel (which everyone has commented on) and/or the coaches' lack of being able to adapt to a new situation (whether it's due to different players, different rules, or a predominant change in thinking by the other teams).


I didn't want to make a post a whole page long, but you're right. I purposely looked at the years from 04-08. The Spurs' defensive decline in those years was more of a slow, steady thing than it looks like if you just look at the graph - because some of the decline was due to the rules changes.

The next couple of years, the Spurs' defensive performance held pretty steady, but a lot of other teams in the league had learned to play better defense under the new rules, and their defensive play actually improved. (To be fair, some of that was due to them getting some younger, athletic players who defend better under the new rules.) But, even that is misleading because one of the reasons the Spurs opponents didn't score more points is because the Spurs still kept the pace of their games relatively slow.

Last year is where the Opponents Points Per 100 Possessions really increased dramatically. And one reason for that is that the Spurs inexplicably started pushing the pace of the game. More possessions equals more points. Not only that, I believe it's just a lot harder to play solid defense in a fast paced game. More possessions plus a higher shooting percentage equals a lot more points.

I think virtually all of the Spurs' defensive problems are in the middle, even though there are other stats (like opponent 3P%) that are up as well. The second chance points really improve opponent scoring and FG%. And with the opponents being stronger in the middle, the Spurs are forced more and more to leave perimeter shooters. Their opponents are getting the wide-open 3's that the Spurs used to get. The Spurs got those wide-open 3's because of Duncan - and the opponents are getting them largely because of Duncan's decline. Fix the middle, and everything else is (at least) good enough.

[therealtruth]

I think virtually all of the Spurs' defensive problems are in the middle, even though there are other stats (like opponent 3P%) that are up as well. The second chance points really improve opponent scoring and FG%. And with the opponents being stronger in the middle, the Spurs are forced more and more to leave perimeter shooters. Their opponents are getting the wide-open 3's that the Spurs used to get. The Spurs got those wide-open 3's because of Duncan - and the opponents are getting them largely because of Duncan's decline. Fix the middle, and everything else is (at least) good enough.

Very good point. That's why I have been saying start Splitter. The Spurs don't need to help if they have two capable defenders in the middle like TD and Splitter. That over helping killed them in the Grizzlies series. Remember Battier's soul crushing 3's in game 1 and 3 came from over helping. They can play aggressive on the perimeter without having to help.

[Spurs Brazil]

When half of your bigs don't know anything about defense it already make the job real tough

[MannyIsGod]

The decline of Tim Duncan.

[GSH]

The decline of Tim Duncan.


... plus the FO's inability to get him some help. The difference is, Tim can't help getting older.




Remember Battier's soul crushing 3's in game 1 and 3 came from over helping. They can play aggressive on the perimeter without having to help.


Exactly.

[timvp]

Opponents are shooting 47.1% against the Spurs this season, which ranks 26th in the league.
After the Rockets game, it's down to 46.6% but still 26th in the league.


San Antonio is allowing 104.4 points per 100 possessions -- and that also has the Spurs ranked 26th.

Down to 103.7 and up to 25th. :lobt2:


The Rockets scored 97.9 points per 100 possessions last night, which is good but not elite. For example, the Sixers lead the NBA in this category at 89.1.

[xmas1997]

The defense will be a work in progress this year, but all in all I think will be better than last year and more consistent as well.

[TheSpurglar]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

3. How good can this team be defensively?

4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?

1. Tim has aged, the Spurs don't have an elite wing defender anymore, numerous significant role players are poor defenders, including Neal, Bonner, Blair and Jefferson. Players like Splitter and Leonard aren't getting the minutes they should for various reasons.

2. Unless there's a trade, giving more minutes to Splitter and Leonard is about all the Spurs can do. Splitter and Leonard are both above-average defenders, but because both of them tend to struggle offensively, they don't receive as much time as they should.

3. Again, unless there's a trade, the Spurs will be middle-of-the-road at best if Leonard and Splitter receive more playing time.

4. They would have to be top 10, and that isn't happening with the current personnel.

I'm sure people already realize this, but Bonner and Blair are the primary problems here. Blair can't be moved to the bench in favor of Splitter because Bonner and Blair are such poor defenders. Replacing Bonner or Blair (preferably Bonner) with a big that's a competent defender would enable Duncan and Splitter to start together, which would improve the defense because you could pair the new big with Blair. But because Duncan has declined defensively, and Blair is a poor defender, Bonner comes in first off the bench and gets minutes because of his potential to score. Splitter comes in when the Spurs need a stop, but because he can't score consistently, if he struggles even a little bit in Pop's eyes Bonner goes back in.

If the Spurs traded Bonner for a big that plays good post defense, the Spurs would have a starting 5 of:

Splitter
Duncan
Jefferson
Ginobili
Parker

Splitter and Duncan would help alleviate the defensive lapses Jefferson and the guards cause, and Ginobili and Parker's scoring (and to a lesser extent Duncan and Jefferson's) would make up for Splitter's lack of offense. The bench would consist of:

Defensive big
Blair
Leonard
Neal
Ford/Green/Anderson

The defensive big and Leonard would help clean up defensive lapses caused by the sub-par defense of players like Blair, Neal and Ford. The problem with these bench players is that outside of Neal, none of them can score consistently. That's why I think Pop refuses to part ways with Bonner, as he likely believes Bonner's 3-point shooting can potentially give him enough offense to counteract the defensive shortcomings of his bench unit.

In short, if you start Splitter, and commit to defense, your bench consists of one competent defender (Leonard). With Manu injured, and Leonard now starting, your bench consists of NO competent defenders with Splitter starting. I know the bench doesn't all play on the court together at the same time, but an NBA coach likes to sub in defense from time to time. With Manu injured, Splitter and Leonard starting, and the likes of Blair, Bonner, Green, Neal and Anderson on the bench, Pop would only be able to sub in offense.

The Spurs need to really hope Malcolm Thomas can play basketball.

[polandprzem]

I just caught this thread

The answer is as simple. It's not the system what makes a good D it's the players who can make the system.

We could swallow Admirals absense but Bowens and Tims decline - not.


Tim was leading guys on interior and Bruce on perimeter, and the rest of the guys suit in.


We do not have real tough guys on our squad.
Tims and Manus leadership it's not enough.

[DAF86]

Leonard could be what everybody thought Green was.

[therealtruth]

You need at least one perimeter stopper or two and an inside presence to compete. Hopefully Kawhi and Green can provide perimeter defense and Tiago and Tim can provide the inside defense.

[Johnny RIngo]

Man, 2004 Spurs were dominant on the defensive end. Too bad about the bullshit 0.4 and Hedo pulling one of the worst chokejobs I've ever seen.

[therealtruth]

Man, 2004 Spurs were dominant on the defensive end. Too bad about the bullshit 0.4 and Hedo pulling one of the worst chokejobs I've ever seen.

The Spurs should have definitely have won more chips back in the day. In fact the teams they had on the years they didn't win were probably better than the ones they did.

[mathbzh]

A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?

First to blame is Pop. He can be mad at players if he wants to but he chose who is playing.


2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?

Start Splitter and trade for a defensive big for the second unit.
Do you have any idea about Blair trade value?


3. How good can this team be defensively?

Average. Maybe good Depending on the young kids evolution.


4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?
Probably very good (considering the offensive efficiency would drop with an improved defense).

[Fabbs]

The last NBA champion to yield a higher shooting percentage to its opponent than its own shooting percentage were the 1978 Washington Bullets.

*Thru 2006

[rascal]

What the spurs can do is lose enough games to get into the lottery and draft a future all star impact defensive big with a lottery pick.

[TwoHandJam]

Lots of great reasons already posted here. I'm sure the loss of Mike Brown also hurt us.

[Mel_13]

What the spurs can do is lose enough games to get into the lottery and draft a future all star impact defensive big with a lottery pick.

http://blog.stamats.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/broken_record.jpg

[timvp]

After Blazers game, FG% defense down to 46.1% for 25th in the league. The Spurs are now allowing 102.1 points per 100 possessions, 22nd in the league.

... and least it's headed in the right direction.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the problem is parker, i dont care if he puts up monster numbers, when the opposing pg puts up his season avgs or have a career day against him....

doesnt help when you have shitty rotation of players who dont play a lick of defense all on the court at the same time...

dont blame duncan, splitter...they hold there own against the bigs so far...

[Spursfanfromafar]

After the Phoenix Suns game, Spurs have jumped up two places to 24th position with Opp FG% dropping to 45.71%, very few decimal points behind Golden State and Milwaukee.. Progress on....

[spectator]

After the Phoenix Suns game, Spurs have jumped up two places to 24th position with Opp FG% dropping to 45.71%, very few decimal points behind Golden State and Milwaukee.. Progress on....

we still suck on defense

why pop chooses to play splitter only 12 min a game when he is so effective is beyond me.

idk if the front office has a big trade planned and want to increase the value of some other players, but at this point i see no freaking reason why splitter plays so little. it's not about fragility, skills, etc. it just pop. i am sure he has his reasons, but for me looking from outside in, this is mind boggling.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the defensive big u guys talkin about always wanting was dice, look how it did last season when he was either paired with blair or bonner on the court, it was fkn fail...not mainly due to him, but the other 2 clowns

[Mel_13]

why pop chooses to play splitter only 12 min a game when he is so effective is beyond me.

He's playing over 20 minutes per game.

[spectator]

He's playing over 20 minutes per game.

you're right - i was talking about today's game; he finished with 17 mins, but had only 12 late in the 3rd.

[DPG21920]

Regardless of the situation, if the Spurs want to improve, Tiago must find more minutes.

[GSH]

After Blazers game, FG% defense down to 46.1% for 25th in the league. The Spurs are now allowing 102.1 points per 100 possessions, 22nd in the league.

... and least it's headed in the right direction.


In the three games since Milwaukee, they've held opponents to 41.7%. Good in and of itself, plus they held each of those teams well under their averages.

I'm sort of hoping that those first 9 games are just a bad memory, and we can start measuring the Spurs defensive prowess from that point forward. They have a starting five that seems to be working, Tiago is anchoring the second unit solidly, and some of the young guys are playing better defense for stretches. Plus I'm sure they all got a good ass-chewing from Pop.

We'll know after a few road games, but I'm hopeful that Milwaukee was the low-water mark for the Spurs' defense, and the first 9 games are just something to drag down the averages for the rest of the season.

[Mel_13]

In the three games since Milwaukee, they've held opponents to 41.7%. Good in and of itself, plus they held each of those teams well under their averages.

I'm sort of hoping that those first 9 games are just a bad memory, and we can start measuring the Spurs defensive prowess from that point forward. They have a starting five that seems to be working, Tiago is anchoring the second unit solidly, and some of the young guys are playing better defense for stretches. Plus I'm sure they all got a good ass-chewing from Pop.

We'll know after a few road games, but I'm hopeful that Milwaukee was the low-water mark for the Spurs' defense, and the first 9 games are just something to drag down the averages for the rest of the season.

Yes he is.

[therealtruth]

Regardless of the situation, if the Spurs want to improve, Tiago must find more minutes.

I agree. Get another defensive big and start Tiago. Tiago has shown the best ability to defend tall and athletic big men. The Spurs made Gortat look like Dwight Howard. The game should not have even been close.

[ace3g]

24writer 24writer
With Leonard a starter through 3 games, the #Spurs' defense is holding their opponents to 89.66 points per game. The offense is scoring 101

[mystargtr34]

Good to see the D slowly getting better.. but people shouldnt expect too much unless personnel moves are made.. unfortunately any team who is playing Blair and Bonner a combined 45-50 minutes a night at the 4/5 spot is never going to be anything more than average to ok on D.. thats pretty much the ceiling.. unless you have a prime Tim Duncan or Dwight Howard at the 5 who can erase anything withing 8 feet of the basket which the Spurs obviously dont.

If Thomas doesnt amount to anything ..i would trade anyone outside of the Big 3, Kawhi and Splitter to try and find a bench level big who can play some D and block a shot or two. Then you can move Tiago to the starting lineup so the team can reach its potential on D.

[NASpurs]

Good to see that Kawhi is making a difference on the defensive end. Here are some stats that support that. These are opponents fg % ever since Manu was out with his injury:


.462
.351
.568
.507
.518
.427 KL
.405 KL
.418 KL

*KL is Leonard inserted into the starting lineupI'm interested to see how this translates on the road.

[timvp]

After the Phoenix Suns game, Spurs have jumped up two places to 24th position with Opp FG% dropping to 45.71%, very few decimal points behind Golden State and Milwaukee.. Progress on....

And the Spurs are up to 18th in points allowed per 100 possessions at 101.2.

That's eight spots better in three games. Good work so far :tu

[Mel_13]

The Lakers and Mavs will see an improvement in their defensive stats after that brickfest tonight...

[DPG21920]

:lol

[timvp]

The opponents field goal percentage is back up to 46.6% after last night's ugliness against the Heat. That is 27th in the league.

The points allowed per 100 possessions is 103.4, tied for 22nd.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Well, looks like tonight we gotta get back up into the top 18 for points allowed....unless we get Ryan Anderson'd

[xmas1997]

I don't see playoffs in the picture playing like that, but just as well this season is a compressed short one.
If they are lottery bound then lets hope for some luck getting a high pick.

[GSH]

The elephant in the room is still the Spurs' interior defense. LeBron finished with 33 points. You expect LeBron to get his points. You can survive LeBron getting 33 points. (Although it helps to hold him to less than the 57% he shot last night.) The real killer was giving up 30 to Bosh, and letting him shoot 64%. In the first half, when the Spurs were "in control", Bosh scored 18.

In the first quarter, the Heat's scoring reads a lot like: Chalmers 3P made, Bosh Jumper made, Battier 3P made, Bosh FT, James FT, Cole jumper made.
By the end of the second quarter, their scoring read exactly like: Bosh running dunk made, James driving layup made, Bosh driving dunk made, Bosh Layup made, James driving layup made (directly from the play-by-play). Even before the runaway 3rd, the Heat were exploiting the Spurs in the middle.

I know leaving Miller wide open to go 6-6 from 3P was ugly, but that was a result of him playing against a second team reeling from a train wreck. I wonder how many people realize that Miller didn't make his first 3-pointer until the :31 mark of the 3rd quarter? By that time, the Heat had already pulled off a 26-point reversal, and the game was effectively over (14 point deficit to 12 point lead). If Miller had gone 0-5 in the fourth, instead of 5-5, the Spurs still lose that game.

If I remember right, the Spurs "held" the Heat to a FG% of about .475 in the first half. Not exactly lockdown defense, but reasonable. (About the same thing the Spurs shot for the entire game.) But the 14 point lead the Spurs held at halftime had a lot to do with them opening the game 13-16 from the floor. They didn't out-defend the Heat in the first half, they just out-shot them.

In the second half the Heat shot something like 75% from the floor. No surprise to anyone who watched the game. I've already made the case that it was the Heat's defense that led to great shots on the other end, and I'm sticking to it. I still think the interior defense added to the problem, but it's a lot harder to isolate that when the whole game is out of control.

Even though the Spurs were up by 14 at the half, did anyone get the feeling that the game was far from over? If you did, it's probably because you picked up on the fact that the Spurs were getting their asses kicked in the middle.

[swaggerjackson]

I love Kawhi's defense but three games is not an appropriate sample size. Our defense as a collective needs to get better and all this talk about it improving is just feels like propaganda. We outscore our opponent that is how we win. It used to be we tried to shut them down. There is just a general mentality change. I would much rather have a lockdown defender who is offensively challenged (Luc Mbah a Moute) than Anderson, Bonner, or maybe even Blair. I know he duplicates Kawhi in some sense but we need people who seriously care about stopping rather than scoring.

[xmas1997]

Even though the Spurs were up by 14 at the half, did anyone get the feeling that the game was far from over? If you did, it's probably because you picked up on the fact that the Spurs were getting their asses kicked in the middle.

I know exactly what you mean.
And unfortunately I don't see an end to this trend this season, very similar to last season in fact i.e. fools gold defense due to lack of defensive presence in the middle.
And I seriously doubt the FO can do anything about it trade wise without wrecking havoc with the better parts of the teams' assets.
Unfortunately then the only way is through the draft and especially this years coming draft which is stacked with some intriguing excellent bigs.
But they will have to flirt with the lottery to get one.
And with Manu and TJ hurt that may be a valid consequence.

[Bruno]

While it's clear that the defense got worse with time, I find it interesting to see
where and when the defense has declined:

Opponents PG eFG% :
04-05: .436
05-06: .451
06-07: .473
07-08: .478
08-09: .467
09-10: .458
10-11: .467
11-12: .469

- The drop between 04-05 and 05-06 is fully because of the backup PG situation. Spurs went from Udrih to NVE and NVE was awful defensively.
- The drop between 05-06 and 06-07 is because of the loss of paint defense. With Rasho and Nazr gone, Spurs have lost a lot in that area.

Opponents wings (SG/SF) eFG% :
04-05: .448
05-06: .444
06-07: .470
07-08: .479
08-09: .495
09-10: .481
10-11: .483
11-12: .493

- The huge drop is between 05-06 and 06-07 and is once again because of the loss of Rasho and Nazr. Bowen decline hasn't helped too.
- The bad year in 08-09 was because of too much Mason and Finley.

Opponents bigs (PF/C) eFG% :
04-05: .464
05-06: .473
06-07: .473
07-08: .474
08-09: .489
09-10: .498
10-11: .513
11-12: .539

- There isn't a drop due to the loss of Rasho and Nazr. It can be explained by players like Oberto and Horry being soled man to man defenders.
- The consistent free fall between 07-08 and 11-12 is because Horry and Oberto were old and have been remplaced by bad defenders with Blair and Bonner. This free fall is also because Duncan is declining.


To conclude:

Spurs going away from Duncan at PF with a big center like Rasho or Nazr has had a huge impact defensively. If you look at other defensive stats, it hasn't been all bad but what is clear is that during the 06 summer, after the loss against Dallas, Spurs have changed their defensive philosophy.

The main reason why Spurs are bad since a couple of years is because their bigmen are awful defensively. In addition of providing little paint presence, they got destroyed by their opponents. This year, t doesn't help to have some new inexperienced faces on the perimeter but the key of the problem is at PF/C. Stats confirm the obvious.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Awesome post Bruno.

Do you think the Spurs will be forced to make a move by the deadline? I mean, they can't expect to roll with the current 4 bigs they have.

[therealtruth]

This year, t doesn't help to have some new inexperienced faces on the perimeter but the key of the problem is at PF/C. Stats confirm the obvious.

Like you said the Spurs were best defensively when they had Duncan and another real big at PF/C. Not the undersized guys they've been playing there. Even Dice was much better defensively than Bonner/Blair. Now the Spurs have a chance to go back to two real bigs with Splitter/TD and they're not taking enough advantage of it.

[Bruno]

Awesome post Bruno.

Do you think the Spurs will be forced to make a move by the deadline? I mean, they can't expect to roll with the current 4 bigs they have.

They obviously should do a move but will they?

The need to improve the PF/C rotation was obvious after last year but look at what they have done this offseason:
- They traded away Hill for Leonard. It looks for the moment like a great move but it doesn't fix the paint situation.
- Spurs have drafted a PG.
- Dice's contract was a good trade asset and they didn't use it to get a big.
- If you look at how Spurs have been linked in the free agency, it was all SFs. They haven't even signed a cheap vet big.

To be honest, I'm lost and I don't really know what Spurs front office is trying to do. They had a glaring need and did nothing to fix it. Maybe they will do it at the trade deadline but it will be way more difficult to do than in the offseason because Spurs have less trade assets and because there aren't free agents.

[xmas1997]

CIA Pop and the FO may be tanking. You can bet they know how good this draft is and what it could do for them as far as PFs and Cs go.
They would never admit it if they were.

[RodNIc91]

While it's clear that the defense got worse with time, I find it interesting to see
where and when the defense has declined:

Opponents PG eFG% :
04-05: .436
05-06: .451
06-07: .473
07-08: .478
08-09: .467
09-10: .458
10-11: .467
11-12: .469

- The drop between 04-05 and 05-06 is fully because of the backup PG situation. Spurs went from Udrih to NVE and NVE was awful defensively.
- The drop between 05-06 and 06-07 is because of the loss of paint defense. With Rasho and Nazr gone, Spurs have lost a lot in that area.

Opponents wings (SG/SF) eFG% :
04-05: .448
05-06: .444
06-07: .470
07-08: .479
08-09: .495
09-10: .481
10-11: .483
11-12: .493

- The huge drop is between 05-06 and 06-07 and is once again because of the loss of Rasho and Nazr. Bowen decline hasn't helped too.
- The bad year in 08-09 was because of too much Mason and Finley.

Opponents bigs (PF/C) eFG% :
04-05: .464
05-06: .473
06-07: .473
07-08: .474
08-09: .489
09-10: .498
10-11: .513
11-12: .539

- There isn't a drop due to the loss of Rasho and Nazr. It can be explained by players like Oberto and Horry being soled man to man defenders.
- The consistent free fall between 07-08 and 11-12 is because Horry and Oberto were old and have been remplaced by bad defenders with Blair and Bonner. This free fall is also because Duncan is declining.


To conclude:

Spurs going away from Duncan at PF with a big center like Rasho or Nazr has had a huge impact defensively. If you look at other defensive stats, it hasn't been all bad but what is clear is that during the 06 summer, after the loss against Dallas, Spurs have changed their defensive philosophy.

The main reason why Spurs are bad since a couple of years is because their bigmen are awful defensively. In addition of providing little paint presence, they got destroyed by their opponents. This year, t doesn't help to have some new inexperienced faces on the


perimeter but the key of the problem is at PF/C. Stats confirm the obvious.

Good post bruno. Maybe u should send this to the FO cause apparently they haven't noticed yet.

[TimmehC]

To piggyback on Bruno's excellent post, I see the declining interior defense as being less on the departure of Horry and Oberto(although that would be a contributing factor), and more due to the simple fact of Tim Duncan not being mobile enough to dominate inside the way he used to. Even if they had guys on the level or Oberto(Splitter, anyone?) and Horry, it wouldn't get them anywhere near the level they used to be. It's sad, but true. This team will not be defensively dominant again with this immobile version of Duncan manning the paint. Maybe that's sacrilege, but it needs to be said.

[therealtruth]

To piggyback on Bruno's excellent post, I see the declining interior defense as being less on the departure of Horry and Oberto(although that would be a contributing factor), and more due to the simple fact of Tim Duncan not being mobile enough to dominate inside the way he used to. Even if they had guys on the level or Oberto(Splitter, anyone?) and Horry, it wouldn't get them anywhere near the level they used to be. It's sad, but true. This team will not be defensively dominant again with this immobile version of Duncan manning the paint. Maybe that's sacrilege, but it needs to be said.

That's true but they can still be much better than they've show by pairing TD and Splitter. Splitter has shown the best individual post defense and Tim's still a pretty good help defender.

[Dex]

That's true but they can still be much better than they've show by pairing TD and Splitter. Splitter has shown the best individual post defense and Tim's still a pretty good help defender.

Pairing TD and Splitter cannot work until the Spurs get another reliable big. Anything gained defensively when both TD and Splitter are on the floor together will be immediately handed back when Bonner and Blair are on the floor together. While debatable, I agree that it is better to have your post defense running at a proverbial 75% the whole game, as opposed to 100% half the game and 50% the other half.

This is the bed that the Spurs made for themselves when their failed to bring in or develop another big.

[timvp]

Good post, Bruno :tu


The opponents field goal percentage is back up to 46.6% after last night's ugliness against the Heat. That is 27th in the league.

The points allowed per 100 possessions is 103.4, tied for 22nd.

After Magic game, the opponents field goal percentage is 45.6%. That is 24th in the league.

The points allowed per 100 possessions is 102.4, tied for 21st.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Spurs are currently 23d in points allowed per 100 possessions with 102.2

They are also ranked 26th in opponents field goal percentage with 46.2%


Would love to see the Spurs fall somewhere between 10-16 for defensive FG% and probably 15-20 in points allowed per 100 possessions.

[DrSteffo]

Pairing TD and Splitter cannot work until the Spurs get another reliable big. Anything gained defensively when both TD and Splitter are on the floor together will be immediately handed back when Bonner and Blair are on the floor together.

Bonner and Blair should NEVER be paired together. But if Duncan and Splitter get 30 min each they will still see some minutes together.

"Funny" thing is that even now when Blair starts with Duncan, Bonner and Blair get some minutes together. It's really stupid and easily fixed if Splitter is allowed more minutes.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Tiago should be getting around 32 minutes a night, Duncan 28, Bonner and Blair 18 each.


But they still desperately need another big in order to pair TD and Splitter together, and like you said, eradicating the time Bonner and Blair would have to play together. The less we see of Bonner/Blair (whether it's together or separately) the better the Spurs become.

[xmas1997]

They need to use Thomas more.

[mystargtr34]

Good post, Bruno :tu



After Magic game, the opponents field goal percentage is 45.6%. That is 24th in the league.

The points allowed per 100 possessions is 102.4, tied for 21st.

Bump.

Baby steps.

Points allowed per 100 possessions is spot on 100.0..tied for 15th in the league.

FG% allowed is 45.3%.. tied for 23rd. The FG% still needs plenty of work.. but it will always be a little higher than it could be since the Spurs dont foul much.

[timvp]

Update:

FG% allowed is down to 44.9%, which is 19th. Points allowed per 100 possessions is down to 99.8, which is 16th in the league.

[timvp]

Still turrible/below average. Those numbers aren't going to fly in the playoffs.

Thanks, captain.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Isn't also worth mentioning that the Spurs have played the toughest schedule of any team in the NBA thus far - and yet our defensive stats are improving? I'm not going to attempt to convince myself, or anyone else for that matter, that we are going to see this current roster compare to Spurs' teams from 7-8 years ago - but with how wide open everything is this year, I don't believe that they have to.

[igruex]

Update:

FG% allowed is down to 44.9%, which is 19th. Points allowed per 100 possessions is down to 99.8, which is 16th in the league.

Given how fast is the season's average is decreasing.. What's the FG% and points allowed for the last 10 and last 20 games?

[dylankerouac]

The other question is if other defenses are improving too. I would guess that due to the lockout the answer is yes.

[Mel_13]

Given how fast is the season's average is decreasing.. What's the FG% and points allowed for the last 10 and last 20 games?

You can easily see season to date, last 10 games, and last 5 games here:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html#top

last 10 games: .424
last 5 games: .418

[Kindergarten Cop]

The other question is if other defenses are improving too. I would guess that due to the lockout the answer is yes.

While it's possible that the percentages for the other teams are also decreasing, it's obvious that not every team can increase in league rank (as the Spurs have been doing).

[TD 21]

Don't be fooled. All they're doing defensively is progressing to the mean. In other words, they were always going to be a borderline top ten defensive team (because they were last season and the defensive personnel they've added to the rotation is superior to what they subtracted), so all they're doing is trending in that direction. They may yet end up slightly better than last season defensively, or at least they should. But they're still one quality defensive power forward short of being able to defend at a championship level.

[dylankerouac]

While it's possible that the percentages for the other teams are also decreasing, it's obvious that not every team can increase in league rank (as the Spurs have been doing).

Great point.

[Spursfanfromafar]

But they're still one quality defensive power forward short of being able to defend at a championship level.

...which they likely wouldn't get soon until end of season.

The best they could do till that possibility arises is to defend better as a unit and play Splitter more. They are doing well in the former, not so much ..the latter. And I am being Captain Obvious.

I like the direction the Spurs are taking though on the defensive scale. It is no mirage, but definite betterment.

Individually speaking, except for Jefferson, not much of grouse/complaint can be made of others in terms of effort.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Update:

FG% allowed is down to 44.9%, which is 19th. Points allowed per 100 possessions is down to 99.8, which is 16th in the league.

That's quite an improvement in 2 weeks!


Still turrible/below average. Those numbers aren't going to fly in the playoffs.

See below. Those numbers will fly!


You can easily see season to date, last 10 games, and last 5 games here:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html#top

last 10 games: .424
last 5 games: .418

Exactly.

If the trend continues and this defence really is in the top 8 or so, we;ve got a hope of making some waves this year.

[DPG21920]

Kenyon Martin is defending well. Looks like he would have really helped.

[StoneBuddha]

Martin looked really good defending Dirk tonight. He would of helped a lot.

[TD 21]

Rankings at the break . . .

opp fg%: .456 (26th)

opp 3p%: .349 (16th)

opp ppg 95.6 (16th), pace 93.7 (18th)

Def. efficiency 101.1 (T-16th)

As much as people think they're better defensively with Splitter in the rotation and with Leonard and to a lesser extent, Green, the numbers don't bear it out.

[Hoops Czar]

Rankings at the break . . .

opp fg%: .456 (26th)

opp 3p%: .349 (16th)

opp ppg 95.6 (16th), pace 93.7 (18th)

Def. efficiency 101.1 (T-16th)

As much as people think they're better defensively with Splitter in the rotation and with Leonard and to a lesser extent, Green, the numbers don't bear it out.

The defense isn't great, but that Portland game definitely skewed the numbers.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Kenyon Martin is defending well. Looks like he would have really helped.

Yeah, he did look good, but I don't think his personality would work with the Spurs, what with the constant shouting and general fucktardness he displays on the court.


As much as people think they're better defensively with Splitter in the rotation and with Leonard and to a lesser extent, Green, the numbers don't bear it out.

No point looking at the whole season's number, better to look at how the numbers are trending. The defence of the first 15 games bears little resemblance to what we've seen in the past 15. And yeah, exclude the Portland game as an outlier.

[Bruno]

More stats about Spurs defense and the ranking among NBA teams:
Cut defense: 0.97 ppp (1st)
Post up defense: 0.79 ppp (7th)
Hand off defense: 0.79 ppp (7th)
Spot up defense: 0.93 ppp (12th)
Other play defense: 0.39 ppp (13th)
Transition defense: 1.14 ppp (20th)
Overall defense: 0.92 ppp (21st)
Pick and Roll defense: 0.90 ppp (27th)
Putt back defense: 1.14 ppp (27th)
Isolation defense: 0.89 ppp (28th)
Off screen defense: 1.09 ppp (30th)

ppp stands for points per possession allowed.

[MaNu4Tres]

More stats about Spurs defense and the ranking among NBA teams:
Cut defense: 0.97 ppp (1st)
Post up defense: 0.79 ppp (7th)
Hand off defense: 0.79 ppp (7th)
Spot up defense: 0.93 ppp (12th)
Other play defense: 0.39 ppp (13th)
Transition defense: 1.14 ppp (20th)
Overall defense: 0.92 ppp (21st)
Pick and Roll defense: 0.90 ppp (27th)
Putt back defense: 1.14 ppp (27th)
Isolation defense: 0.89 ppp (28th)
Off screen defense: 1.09 ppp (30th)

ppp stands for points per possession allowed.

The number for the PnR D is the biggest concern. IMO

And that ranking doesn't surprise me.

[TD 21]

Yeah, he did look good, but I don't think his personality would work with the Spurs, what with the constant shouting and general fucktardness he displays on the court.



No point looking at the whole season's number, better to look at how the numbers are trending. The defence of the first 15 games bears little resemblance to what we've seen in the past 15. And yeah, exclude the Portland game as an outlier.

Fair enough. But the truth is, the defense has gotten progressively worse from the game against the Pistons on. Like I said a few weeks ago, don't be fooled by the defensive surge they were on, they were merely progressing to their mean. Now they're simply regressing again.

As much as they want to pretend it has a chance to get significantly better by the young guys better grasping the system, the reality is, the only chance it has at getting significantly better is by playing Duncan and particularly Splitter, significantly more minutes. Short of that, they just don't have the personnel to defend at even a top 10 level.

[Bruno]

The number for the PnR D is the biggest concern. IMO

And that ranking doesn't surprise me.

Agree. The iso ranking is also a big concern.

[therealtruth]

Fair enough. But the truth is, the defense has gotten progressively worse from the game against the Pistons on. Like I said a few weeks ago, don't be fooled by the defensive surge they were on, they were merely progressing to their mean. Now they're simply regressing again.

As much as they want to pretend it has a chance to get significantly better by the young guys better grasping the system, the reality is, the only chance it has at getting significantly better is by playing Duncan and particularly Splitter, significantly more minutes. Short of that, they just don't have the personnel to defend at even a top 10 level.

In the playoffs where individual defense is more important I think they will have no choice but playing TD and TS. Teams are going to look for the weakest link and try to attack it on defense. TS probably has the best bigman pick and roll defense. We could have used him in '10 when the Suns were abusing TD on the pick and roll.

The Spurs also need to work TD and TS together on offense to make teams pay for trying to play small ball. You can't let teams dictate the matchups. Once they see TS getting layups and and-ones they'll stop playing small ball pretty quickly. But the team has to be prepared to take advantage and guys need to know how to make the passes and space the floor. Pop has tried to match up with other teams in small ball and the team wasn't as good. I remember from 2010 Doug Collins saying that Pop should stop trying to play small ball against the Suns because his small ball just wasn't good enough.

[Spurs Brazil]

Can we get a update?

[TJastal]

In the playoffs where individual defense is more important I think they will have no choice but playing TD and TS. Teams are going to look for the weakest link and try to attack it on defense. TS probably has the best bigman pick and roll defense. We could have used him in '10 when the Suns were abusing TD on the pick and roll.

The Spurs also need to work TD and TS together on offense to make teams pay for trying to play small ball. You can't let teams dictate the matchups. Once they see TS getting layups and and-ones they'll stop playing small ball pretty quickly. But the team has to be prepared to take advantage and guys need to know how to make the passes and space the floor. Pop has tried to match up with other teams in small ball and the team wasn't as good. I remember from 2010 Doug Collins saying that Pop should stop trying to play small ball against the Suns because his small ball just wasn't good enough.

Dictating matchups would require active planning / coaching the team. Pop stopped doing that ages ago. That takes effort.

Nowadays, Pop prefers to just sit back on autopilot and play 'simon says' with the opposing coach. He's got 4 titles, ya know. Anyway, he's worked hard on all the GM/team building stuff he's tired, you know. Plus sitting back and letting the team figure things out on its own always worked for Phil, right?. Game time = Miller Time for Pop. And in-between nodding off in a half-drunken stupor every now and then he he'll throw in a tantrum/ejection to keep up the appearance of being tough.

[silverblk mystix]

Dictating matchups would require active planning / coaching the team. Pop stopped doing that ages ago. That takes effort.

Nowadays, Pop prefers to just sit back on autopilot and play 'simon says' with the opposing coach. He's got 4 titles, ya know. Anyway, he's worked hard on all the GM/team building stuff he's tired, you know. Plus sitting back and letting the team figure things out on its own always worked for Phil, right?. Game time = Miller Time for Pop. And in-between nodding off in a half-drunken stupor every now and then he he'll throw in a tantrum/ejection to keep up the appearance of being tough.

So? What's wrong with that? Pop is the greatest coach in the history of mankind...who are you? ...some poster on a forum...so if you got rid of Pop...who would you replace him with?...

[therealtruth]

Fair enough. But the truth is, the defense has gotten progressively worse from the game against the Pistons on. Like I said a few weeks ago, don't be fooled by the defensive surge they were on, they were merely progressing to their mean. Now they're simply regressing again.

As much as they want to pretend it has a chance to get significantly better by the young guys better grasping the system, the reality is, the only chance it has at getting significantly better is by playing Duncan and particularly Splitter, significantly more minutes. Short of that, they just don't have the personnel to defend at even a top 10 level.

I don't know why people can't realize this. At best the Spurs personnel are B- level athletes. That's just not good enough to play help defense to cover the hole inside with Blair/Bonner and stay on shooters. Their best bet at covering that hole inside is by playing TD/Splitter who are capable individual defenders and having the perimeter players stay attached to their man.

[Mel_13]

Found this link in a tweet about the best defenders in the NBA. Scroll down to see the top Spurs as measured by opponents' production:

http://www.82games.com/1112/ROLRTG3.HTM

:downspin:

[bklynspursfan]

Found this link in a tweet about the best defenders in the NBA. Scroll down to see the top Spurs as measured by opponents' production:

http://www.82games.com/1112/ROLRTG3.HTM

:downspin:

Matt Bonner FTW!

[William Hung]

https://mycotopia.net/forums/attachments/trash-talk/119553d1236695443-longest-lasting-tt-t-topic-ever-bump.gif

[TD 21]

It's that time again, to find out if actual improvements have been made defensively, or if they're just in the midst of a good stretch. They have more or less reached what has been their pinnacle defensively in recent seasons (not necessarily in terms of ranking, but statistical threshold). The defensive efficiency is down to 100.8 (11th), the opp. fg% is down to .452 (17th) and the opp. 3 fg% is .356 (21th).

This time, the defense has a legitimate shot at, if not necessarily trending up a whole lot more, then at least plateauing, as opposed to regressing. That's because Blair and Neal, the two worst defenders in the rotation, are seeing less and less minutes, while Diaw, a solid defender, is continuing to play more.

On the flip side, the same can be said for their 3 point shooting. In particular, Ginobili, Green, Neal and Leonard, are seemingly shooting at their absolute apex. The same could be said for Diaw, but the sample size is still too small to include him with the aforementioned four. Meanwhile, the only ones that can seemingly shoot better by a decent amount are Bonner and probably Jackson.

I'm actually more concerned about their 3 point shooting for a change. Even though they're not as reliant on it as in recent seasons, they're still reliant on it. And as good a shooting team as they are and as quality of looks as they generate, they're so insanely hot right now (.476 fg% 0 - 1st; .393 3pt% - 1st, despite losing roughly 14% from 3 when going from Jefferson to Jackson) that they've got to be due for a cold stretch. It may actually be better if they don't shoot the lights out in the next four, which would increase the odds of them heating back up again just in time for the playoffs.

[Obstructed_View]

Percentage goes up because they're making the defense sag. In previous years when they ran plays to try to get three pointers, defenders were wise to it and could run them off good shots.

[td4mvp21]

Nice stats for the last 10 games:

Opponent FG %: 43.7% (5th in the league)

Opponent 3FG %: 32.7% (5th in the league)

All of that with a +12.9 margin of defeat.

[Juventini]

Let's hope Pop doesn't shorten the rotation during the playoff. Less minutes for each players mean that they don't have to reserve their energy during the game, thus making them more willing to help on defense and cover for one another.
I really love the defense lately, we swarm the opponent from everywhere on the court. Thus, making the opponent think twice before putting the ball on the floor. They try to swipe the ball every time they have a chance and it makes the opponent feel so uncomfortable.

[freetiago]

the thing these numbers dont account for are the tank jobs and the amount of times spurs just blow teams out in the first/second quarter and sit the big players for the rest of the game
having a lineup of mills/neal/jack/diaw/blair playing 15-20+ minutes would bring down the defense a lot

[SA210]

I think it would be a huge mistake to shorten the rotation. We really need our depth to go all the way.

[TheSkeptic]

I think it would be a huge mistake to shorten the rotation. We really need our depth to go all the way.

Hmm...Yes and no. I'm in favour of shortening the big rotation if it means Blair is out of it and Bonner doesn't play more than either Diaw or Tiago.

If by shorten you mean going only 7 deep in the playoffs then I agree.

[therealtruth]

Let's hope Pop doesn't shorten the rotation during the playoff. Less minutes for each players mean that they don't have to reserve their energy during the game, thus making them more willing to help on defense and cover for one another.
I really love the defense lately, we swarm the opponent from everywhere on the court. Thus, making the opponent think twice before putting the ball on the floor. They try to swipe the ball every time they have a chance and it makes the opponent feel so uncomfortable.

I agree guys shouldn't worry about conserving energy because of the depth.

[SPARKY]

Spurs are now an offensive juggernaut, ranking near the top in points scored per game, point differential per game, FG%, assists per game, and assist differential per game.

While Spurs title teams have been defensively dominant statistically, this year's version is dominant when it comes to executing better than their opponents.

Also, the personnel changes haven't filtered through the team season stats yet.

[jmard5]

I think it would be a huge mistake to shorten the rotation. We really need our depth to go all the way.

... unless Blair is the odd man out. :lol

[Seventyniner]

... unless Blair is the odd man out. :lol

Mills and Anderson are easy cuts from the rotation. I also think Blair should be removed too, and the other 10 played each game, with minutes shuffled instead of removing more players entirely.

[Seventyniner]

Bump. According to basketball-reference.com:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2012.html
the Spurs are 1st in offensive efficiency, which is great, but up to 10th in defensive efficiency. It's a virtual 3-way tie for 9th with the Pacers (103.1), Spurs (103.2), and Thunder (103.2). 11th place is 104.1, while 8th place is 102.1, so the Spurs will finish somewhere between 9th and 11th based on the results of tonight's game. The Pacers and Thunder are done with the regular season btw.

The only teams in the Western conference above the Spurs in defensive efficiency are Memphis (101.9, 7th) and Dallas (102.1, 8th).

I'd love to see how the Spurs' defense stacks up since adding Jax and Diaw, but I'm not good enough at searching basketball-reference.com to find that out.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Bump. According to basketball-reference.com:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2012.html
the Spurs are 1st in offensive efficiency, which is great, but up to 10th in defensive efficiency. It's a virtual 3-way tie for 9th with the Pacers (103.1), Spurs (103.2), and Thunder (103.2). 11th place is 104.1, while 8th place is 102.1, so the Spurs will finish somewhere between 9th and 11th based on the results of tonight's game. The Pacers and Thunder are done with the regular season btw.

The only teams in the Western conference above the Spurs in defensive efficiency are Memphis (101.9, 7th) and Dallas (102.1, 8th).

I'd love to see how the Spurs' defense stacks up since adding Jax and Diaw, but I'm not good enough at searching basketball-reference.com to find that out.

Difficult to do this using BR, but hoopdata.com has some possession and efficiency stats for each game..

Taking a simple average of defensive efficiency for games before RJ trade and after RJ and adjusting for overall possessions-

Avg DefEff (Hoopdata calculated, poss adjusted) before RJ trade- 107.93
Avg DefEff (Hoopdata calculated, poss adjusted) after RJ trade - 104.3

Avg OffEff (Hoopdata calculated, poss adjusted) before RJ trade- 112.6
Avg OffEff (Hoopdata calculated, poss adjusted) after RJ trade -117.5

The takeaway is what we already know. Defense has improved by close to 3.45% points, while offense has improved by close to 4.3% points by these metrics.

Good riddance to RJ.