What was the reason for reducing Bruce Bowens minutes

[djgruvy]

Does anybody know the real answer as to why Bruce Bowens minutes were reduced the last year he was with the Spurs? I never understood the reasoning. I remember when he would get playing time he played very well...

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Pop was opting to go in a new direction for offense over defense, and Bruce's defensive abilities started to slip a bit.

He was still a good defender, but definitely not in his prime anymore. It signaled the beginning of the end for the Spurs.

[stxspurs]

Really? The real question is why they started reducing the minutes of Frank brickowski. Now that was absurd!

[dylankerouac]

Pop was saving him for the playoffs.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

He was done. Proven by the fact no team has offered him a contract since then. No conspiracy here.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

He was done. Proven by the fact no team has offered him a contract since then. No conspiracy here.

Bowen had no intentions of playing anywhere outside of SA. He probably wasn't thrilled with the trade and felt it was time to call it a day.

[z0sa]

He was done. Proven by the fact no team has offered him a contract since then. No conspiracy here.

.. no. Believe it or not, Bruce still had plenty left in the tank.

In fact, he was 3rd in all-star Forward voting in 2009, with 1,392,398 votes. That's right. He beat Dirk, Melo, and co by tens of thousands of votes. (http://www.nba.com/2009/allstar2009/01/22/allstar_final.allstar09.20090122/index.html)

One of the greater mysteries in Spurs history, tbh.

[lefty]

Matt Bonner

[cantthinkofanything]

.. no. Believe it or not, Bruce still had plenty left in the tank.

In fact, he was 3rd in all-star Forward voting in 2009, with 1,392,398 votes. That's right. He beat Dirk, Melo, and co by tens of thousands of votes. (http://www.nba.com/2009/allstar2009/01/22/allstar_final.allstar09.20090122/index.html)

One of the greater mysteries in Spurs history, tbh.

Most of the Spurs mysteries of the last several years could probably be explained if we knew of who and what kind of pics Bonner had in his possession.

[4>0rings]

Bowen bit that hand that fed him, out he went.

[SA210]

Stupidity is what it was. Bruce was still shutting people down before that. Let's not forget he helped the Spurs less than 2 seasons prior to shutting down Lebron in the Finals. Bruce complained about his reduction in playing time and Pop sent him away because of it.

[jjktkk]

Stupidity is what it was. Bruce was still shutting people down before that. Let's not forget he helped the Spurs less than 2 seasons prior to shutting down Lebron in the Finals. Bruce complained about his reduction in playing time and Pop sent him away because of it.

And why did Pop reduce Bowen's minutes? Because Bowen's production was in decline, due to age maybe? Or Pop just wanted to because he hates Bruce's bow ties? :rolleyes

[Maddog]

He was done. Proven by the fact no team has offered him a contract since then. No conspiracy here.

He was a few weeks shy of 38 at the end of the season in 09
Definitely had lost a step.
Still decent but definitely lost a step.
To my mind the Spurs big mistake was not blowing up (well at least rearranging the team) after the 07 season.
They won with several aging parts. Instead out of loyalty they resigned Oberto, Bonner etc.

[SA210]

And why did Pop reduce Bowen's minutes? Because Bowen's production was in decline, due to age maybe? Or Pop just wanted to because he hates Bruce's bow ties? :rolleyes

If I'm not mistaken I believe even Kori suggested back then that Bruce wasn't in decline really, especially the way people tried to portray.

Pop sold out. He wanted to go against his own beliefs and go for offense over defense. I hope he's glad about the success since that decision.

[silverblk mystix]

No one has mentioned the absolute truth here...

Pop sold out Bowen in favor of fuckin' Michael Finley...

Bowen was still leagues above Finley DEFENSIVELY and Pop just mysteriously handed the job to Finley....

Even after Finley would prove to be a fuckin' turnstile defensively---Pop would just look the other way...

Bowen would come in off the bench and Pop would tear into Bowen during timeouts and yank Bowen ...

This was the treatment Bowen endured after being a vital cog in the Spurs titles....


Fuck Pop.

[Baseline]

It was Pop's strange an ridiculous fascination with Michael Finley. REmember that Pop signed Finley to a TWO-YEAR agreement even after it was abundantly clear that Finley was done.

Meanwhile, he benched Bowen clearly before he was done. Bowen knew how horrible Finley was, so (rightfully) complained. Remember that Bowen's 3-pt% was never below 40%, and Finley's was barely that. Plus, Finley hurt us tremendously on defense.

Pop's premature benching of Bowen cost us at least one more title during the Duncan-Manu-Parker era. Without question.

[jjktkk]

If I'm not mistaken I believe even Kori suggested back then that Bruce wasn't in decline really, especially the way people tried to portray.

Pop sold out. He wanted to go against his own beliefs and go for offense over defense. I hope he's glad about the success since that decision.

The man was 38 years old!!! How effective were you expecting Bruce was going to be chasing around the Kobes and Nashes of the league at 38? Pop sold out on offense, because he longer had the personnel to play defense. The team got old. It happens.

[SA210]

The man was 38 years old!!! How effective were you expecting Bruce was going to be chasing around the Kobes and Nashes of the league at 38? Pop sold out on offense, because he longer had the personnel to play defense. The team got old. It happens.


Absolutely not. I disagree completely. It does happen, thing is it DID NOT happen yet to the Spurs at the time. Pop screwed Bruce over while Bruce would still have been very effective. He was still the best perimeter defender in the league at the time. 38 or not. Again, how has Pop's decision gone since then to choose offense over defense? I refer you to timvp's graphs

Dumbass Pop couldn't even keep Bruce on for a FO job, Assistant Coach, nothing? Yea, he got personal.

[ChumpDumper]

lol blacklisted Bruce

[therealtruth]

Absolutely not. I disagree completely. It does happen, thing is it DID NOT happen yet to the Spurs at the time. Pop screwed Bruce over while Bruce would still have been very effective. He was still the best perimeter defender in the league at the time. 38 or not. Again, how has Pop's decision gone since then to choose offense over defense? I refer you to timvp's graphs

Dumbass Pop couldn't even keep Bruce on for a FO job, Assistant Coach, nothing? Yea, he got personal.

I think Bowen should have stayed on in some form as an assistant coach. He knew so many tricks as a defender such as how to move your feet position yourself. He could have really have helped the younger guys get better.

[Ice009]

He was done. Proven by the fact no team has offered him a contract since then. No conspiracy here.

I'm pretty sure the Celtics wanted him, but Bruce declined. If there was an offer, he should have went there as Doc Rivers would have appreciated him IMO.


If I'm not mistaken I believe even Kori suggested back then that Bruce wasn't in decline really, especially the way people tried to portray.

Pop sold out. He wanted to go against his own beliefs and go for offense over defense. I hope he's glad about the success since that decision.

Pop must have thought we lost that '08 Lakers series because we didn't have enough offense. He must have partially blamed Bruce for that loss.

[jjktkk]

Absolutely not. I disagree completely. It does happen, thing is it DID NOT happen yet to the Spurs at the time. Pop screwed Bruce over while Bruce would still have been very effective. He was still the best perimeter defender in the league at the time. 38 or not. Again, how has Pop's decision gone since then to choose offense over defense? I refer you to timvp's graphs

Dumbass Pop couldn't even keep Bruce on for a FO job, Assistant Coach, nothing? Yea, he got personal.

Why don't you answer why he choose offense over defense? No Bowen, DRob, no prime Duncan= no defense. Simple math tbh..

[dunkman]

The Spurs got burned regularly by the players he was guarding his last season, and he wasn't a good offensive player either.

[SA210]

Why don't you answer why he choose offense over defense? No Bowen, DRob, no prime Duncan= no defense. Simple math tbh..

No, I believe he just saw the NBA going in that direction and he stupidly bought into it.

How about recruiting players and holding them accountable to not missing plays on D like old times. You missed that defensive play = no playing time. Simple math tbh..

[jjktkk]

No, I believe he just saw the NBA going in that direction and he stupidly bought into it.

How about recruiting players and holding them accountable to not missing plays on D like old times. You missed that defensive play = no playing time. Simple math tbh..

WTF, recruiting? He can hold them accountable, yell at them till hes blue in the face, but bottom line, expecting them to perform at a elite level, is asking quite alot. Improve, hustle, go, 100%, absolutely, but this team, currently, at its peak, is medicore defensively.

[SA210]

WTF, recruiting? He can hold them accountable, yell at them till hes blue in the face, but bottom line, expecting them to perform at a elite level, is asking quite alot. Improve, hustle, go, 100%, absolutely, but this team, currently, at its peak, is medicore defensively.

Fact is he doesn't do that anymore. It's not Spurs basketball. They don't all have to be Bruce. But him acting like he doesnt give a damn about D anymore is a problem. And yes recruiting, when bring a player over they used to emphasize D from the start.

[ChumpDumper]

lol recruiting. The threats regarding defense would scare off most free agents.

[therealtruth]

Pop must have thought we lost that '08 Lakers series because we didn't have enough offense. He must have partially blamed Bruce for that loss.

Pop stopped believing in defense back in '06 when he went with Finley over Mohammed. When AJ would do it the next year against the Warriors he would be rightfully crucified for it but when Pop did it no one said anything.

[silverblk mystix]

The man was 38 years old!!! How effective were you expecting Bruce was going to be chasing around the Kobes and Nashes of the league at 38? Pop sold out on offense, because he longer had the personnel to play defense. The team got old. It happens.

Complete and utter bullshit.

How old is Nash? How's he looking?

Bowen was a gym rat and was in better shape than guys half his age...probably still in better shape than a lot of current NBA players...

If you remember the days when Pop was on his game he would call a timeout and remove anyone----ANYONE--- who fucked up on defense...he would do this consistently...and believe me...when players knew this they would work their asses off----talented or not---at least they gave 100% effort...

Fast forward to Finleys arrival....all of a sudden...Pop could watch Finley miss rotations...get scorched...over and over...no timeout...no accountability....
all of a sudden...it was...well Finley gives us more offense...the rules/league is changing...we need to improve offensively, blah fuckin' blah....

all because of Pop's mancrush on Finley...who pretty much sucked and was done BEFORE he became a Spur...

So, of course Bowen couldn't play forever...but if Pop had maintained that DEFENSIVE STANDARD and didn't start his fuckin' double standards for different players...then the Spurs would have at least gone after players who were defensive minded and mentally tough...

Instead we signed garbage like Bonner....Finley....RJ....

Trace it back and you can see where Pop's dementia began to set in....

[SA210]

Complete and utter bullshit.

How old is Nash? How's he looking?

Bowen was a gym rat and was in better shape than guys half his age...probably still in better shape than a lot of current NBA players...

If you remember the days when Pop was on his game he would call a timeout and remove anyone----ANYONE--- who fucked up on defense...he would do this consistently...and believe me...when players knew this they would work their asses off----talented or not---at least they gave 100% effort...

Fast forward to Finleys arrival....all of a sudden...Pop could watch Finley miss rotations...get scorched...over and over...no timeout...no accountability....
all of a sudden...it was...well Finley gives us more offense...the rules/league is changing...we need to improve offensively, blah fuckin' blah....

all because of Pop's mancrush on Finley...who pretty much sucked and was done BEFORE he became a Spur...

So, of course Bowen couldn't play forever...but if Pop had maintained that DEFENSIVE STANDARD and didn't start his fuckin' double standards for different players...then the Spurs would have at least gone after players who were defensive minded and mentally tough...

Instead we signed garbage like Bonner....Finley....RJ....

Trace it back and you can see where Pop's dementia began to set in....

This!

[angelbelow]

I just remember being very frustrated with Michael Finley.

[jjktkk]

Complete and utter bullshit.

Yep, your right, but I'll respond to yea anyway.


How old is Nash? How's he looking?


Since when did Nash become a defesive player?


Bowen was a gym rat and was in better shape than guys half his age...probably still in better shape than a lot of current NBA players...

True. But Father time does not discriminate. So Bowen could still play, but chose not to. Now why is that? Lack of desire maybe?


If you remember the days when Pop was on his game he would call a timeout and remove anyone----ANYONE--- who fucked up on defense...he would do this consistently...and believe me...when players knew this they would work their asses off----talented or not---at least they gave 100% effort...

Fast forward to Finleys arrival....all of a sudden...Pop could watch Finley miss rotations...get scorched...over and over...no timeout...no accountability....
all of a sudden...it was...well Finley gives us more offense...the rules/league is changing...we need to improve offensively, blah fuckin' blah....

all because of Pop's mancrush on Finley...who pretty much sucked and was done BEFORE he became a Spur...

So, of course Bowen couldn't play forever...but if Pop had maintained that DEFENSIVE STANDARD and didn't start his fuckin' double standards for different players...then the Spurs would have at least gone after players who were defensive minded and mentally tough...

Instead we signed garbage like Bonner....Finley....RJ....

Trace it back and you can see where Pop's dementia began to set in....

I was no fan of Finley, nor Bonner being overused. I'd love for the old days of Spurs dominating their foes defensively, but thats no longer the case. You and some others think its so easy to find these above average defensive players, like they are just out there waiting to be scooped up by some team. Do you think dynasties like the Spurs had just keep rolling along? Do you understand the Spur's dynamics, finiancial wise, their inability to land marquee free agents? You still didn't answer my question, regarding these young studs(your words) that Pop and RC failed to land in recent seasons. Where are these guys? If the team as a whole, lacks defensive talent, its kinda hard to maintain defensive standards. Yes Pop is responisble for bringing in talent, but again these defensive players you scream for, are not out there in bunches. Without lottery picks, and an owners deep pockets, how do you realistically expect Pop and RC to overhaul this Spur's roster?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Lots of revisionist history here. Bruce clearly lost a step and wasn't stopping anyone in his final year. He went from being effective to being ineffective, and then retired.

[baseline bum]

Lots of revisionist history here. Bruce clearly lost a step and wasn't stopping anyone in his final year. He went from being effective to being ineffective, and then retired.

He may have lost a couple of steps, but he was still far and away the best defender not named Tim Duncan on the team in 09.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

He may have lost a couple of steps, but he was still far and away the best defender not named Tim Duncan on the team in 09.

Sure, but he wasn't shutting people down any more, and he wasn't even forcing them into inefficiency, otherwise he would have kept playing. And when you think about what it takes to be an elite perimeter defender, all you have to lose is half a step and you're average. That he could still destroy people at age 37 was a credit to him, but he clearly fell off the cliff as a player in 2009.

All the conspiracy nuts in this thread make me laugh... as if Pop would somehow try to sabotage the guy who helped him to 3 rings. Morons. :rolleyes

Big 4 for life! :D

PS I'd like to have my Bowen avatar up but the site won't allow it (even though it has worked before).

[callo1]

No one has mentioned the absolute truth here...

Pop sold out Bowen in favor of fuckin' Michael Finley...

Bowen was still leagues above Finley DEFENSIVELY and Pop just mysteriously handed the job to Finley....

Even after Finley would prove to be a fuckin' turnstile defensively---Pop would just look the other way...

Bowen would come in off the bench and Pop would tear into Bowen during timeouts and yank Bowen ...

This was the treatment Bowen endured after being a vital cog in the Spurs titles....


Fuck Pop.


I can not disagree with this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bruce got in Pop's doghouse and that was that. Bruce wasn't done, while he had lost a bit, he still had some left in the tank. Other than Hill, Bruce in limited minutes was the best player in that Mavs series...hated to see Bruce disrespected like that. IMO, one of Pop's lowest moments.

[slick'81]

we got our new bowenhttp://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0324/insider_i_kleonard1_576.jpg

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

If Bruce still had some left in the tank at the end of 2009, why did he retire and not try for a contract elsewhere? He was done athletically, and he knew it.

[callo1]

complete and utter bullshit.

How old is nash? How's he looking?

Bowen was a gym rat and was in better shape than guys half his age...probably still in better shape than a lot of current nba players...

If you remember the days when pop was on his game he would call a timeout and remove anyone----anyone--- who fucked up on defense...he would do this consistently...and believe me...when players knew this they would work their asses off----talented or not---at least they gave 100% effort...

Fast forward to finleys arrival....all of a sudden...pop could watch finley miss rotations...get scorched...over and over...no timeout...no accountability....
All of a sudden...it was...well finley gives us more offense...the rules/league is changing...we need to improve offensively, blah fuckin' blah....

All because of pop's mancrush on finley...who pretty much sucked and was done before he became a spur...

So, of course bowen couldn't play forever...but if pop had maintained that defensive standard and didn't start his fuckin' double standards for different players...then the spurs would have at least gone after players who were defensive minded and mentally tough...

Instead we signed garbage like bonner....finley....rj....

Trace it back and you can see where pop's dementia began to set in....

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ +1

[baseline bum]

we got our new bowen.

No such thing. Players who can shut down NBA all-stars night-in and night-out are about as rare as they come.

[slick'81]

No such thing. Players who can shut down NBA all-stars night-in and night-out are about as rare as they come.


indeed most players have the tools but not the desire to play all out defense and not worrying about the offensive end.I feel kawhi is a rare bird like bowen.Will he be Bowen of course not but hes gonna do his best to try and fill that role for this team

and yeah bowen was getting abused his final season something spurs fans hadnt seen before

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

No such thing. Players who can shut down NBA all-stars night-in and night-out are about as rare as they come.

Indeed. For eg, there's no-one like Bruce in the NBA today.


indeed most players have the tools but not the desire to play all out defense and not worrying about the offensive end.I feel kawhi is a rare bird like bowen.Will he be Bowen of course not but hes gonna do his best to try and fill that role for this team

and yeah bowen was getting abused his final season something spurs fans hadnt seen before

Even if Kawhi is 80% of the defender Bruce was he'll be great, because he's also an elite rebounder and has an offensive game, both of which were anathema to Bruce (except the corner 3s, of course).

[therealtruth]

indeed most players have the tools but not the desire to play all out defense and not worrying about the offensive end.I feel kawhi is a rare bird like bowen.Will he be Bowen of course not but hes gonna do his best to try and fill that role for this team

and yeah bowen was getting abused his final season something spurs fans hadnt seen before

I agree. Most players save their energy for offense. True defensive players consider their offense an after thought. The ironic thing is that alot of times being aggressive on defense can help get your offense going.