Seriously...Bonner...WTF China

[cantthinkofanything]

It's been beaten to death but I'm going to beat it some more (haha). How can he even be on the court? How can Pop not see Bonner's crappy defense and no rebounding? Seriously. Whatever 3's he hits are more than offset by his man scoring on him or another Spur having to leave his man to help Bonner and give up a putback. Really. How can Pop not see this? Why does he play him so many gd minutes. I'm sure every team has "that" player that the fans bitch about. But in most cases, it's 50/50 and the guy has some redeeming quality that at some has to begrudgingly be acknowledged. But Bonner?!?!?!!!? Anyone??!?!?! And he's not just getting time to give someone a rest. He was in for long stretches of critical time last night.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

At least Pop got his act together for the OT period.

At this point even Thomas deserves to be ahead of Bonner in the rotation. The one thing Bonner did to earn playing time was hit 3's against sub .500 teams in January. This season he's shooting below 35% from behind the arc.

He's just beyond awful, and at this point I'd rather he get amnestied over RJ.

[Dex]

At least Pop got his act together for the OT period.

At this point even Thomas deserves to be ahead of Bonner in the rotation. The one thing Bonner did to earn playing time was hit 3's against sub .500 teams in January. This season he's shooting below 35% from behind the arc.

He's just beyond awful, and at this point I'd rather he get amnestied over RJ.

This. At least Jefferson is showing signs of coming around. When he is playing well, his defense is passable, and his shot looks great. It would be nice if he could drive to the basket more because he's getting paid way to much too be a very poor man's Bruce Bowen, but he at least could have a place on the team.

When Bonner is not shooting great from three, he's nothing but a liability. And I'm not talking about shooting "well". 35% for most players is pretty acceptable. But for Bonner, he needs to be shooting lights out (40%+) just to justify being out there on the court, because like the OP said, what he generally brings in offense, he usually gives right back in defense (or lack thereof). Right now, he is nothing but a black hole on the court. Players target him when he is defending them, and all those missed threes just become long rebounds for opposing teams to leak out on the break with. He can't rebound, he can't defend, he can't run, he can't create...and right now, he can't even shoot. How is this guy still getting playing time?

Dude has got to go. Even when he plays his role well, he's still a problem on the court. And right now, he's not even playing his role well.

[dbestpro]

When Novak was here we asked could Novak be Bonner? The reality is Bonner is just like Novak and should not see anymore than 5-8 minutes per game like a Novak.

[jermaine]

Bonner plays hard, an It's not his fault he just sucks. But ask yourselves, how many points did scola score on Bonner? Bonner does move his feet well, an he sucks so he get calls called on him that other don't. Bonner can just bump someone an he get a foul called on him an since he's not strong enough they finish at the rim with a and1. But all the Bonner hate is crazy around here. I'm sure when he goes on his hot streaks, half of you'll be wishing you'll had a Bonner jersey on a red wig.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Bonner plays hard, an It's not his fault he just sucks. But ask yourselves, how many points did scola score on Bonner? Bonner does move his feet well, an he sucks so he get calls called on him that other don't. Bonner can just bump someone an he get a foul called on him an since he's not strong enough they finish at the rim with a and1. But all the Bonner hate is crazy around here. I'm sure when he goes on his hot streaks, half of you'll be wishing you'll had a Bonner jersey on a red wig.

Are you crazy? It's not Bonner's fault he sucks and gets called for fouls easily since he plays awkward, but let's play him anyway?

I will try to dig up the stats of opponent's FG% vs Bonner, but I wouldn't be surprised if it tops that of when the opposing player is left wide open.

And the Bonner hate isn't insane at all, he's having the worst season of his career so far. He still averages a whopping 17 minutes per game. Malcolm Thomas should be taking half those minutes to start.

[cantthinkofanything]

Bonner plays hard, an It's not his fault he just sucks. But ask yourselves, how many points did scola score on Bonner? Bonner does move his feet well, an he sucks so he get calls called on him that other don't. Bonner can just bump someone an he get a foul called on him an since he's not strong enough they finish at the rim with a and1. But all the Bonner hate is crazy around here. I'm sure when he goes on his hot streaks, half of you'll be wishing you'll had a Bonner jersey on a red wig.

Oh...I didn't realize someone was covering Scola last night. Huh.

And you're wrong. When/if he goes on a hot streak, we will all groan in concert knowing that it guarantees he will get even more time.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The only person who did well against Scola was Tiago.

[cantthinkofanything]

The only person who did well against Scola was Tiago.

I'm impressed with Tiago's defense. His foortwork and ability to stay in front of the quicker big men is suprising to me. Not to mention the blocks. He's one of the bright spots this year for sure. And really makes Pop look foolish for not playing him against Memphis last year.

[Mugen]

The only person who did well against Scola was Tiago.

Meh Scola lit Tiago up as soon as he subbed into the game. But he did make Luis make some really ridiculous shots that he always seems to hit against us.

Blair, as usual, gambled way too much in defending him and got burned for doing so.

I thought Timmy did the best job on Scola but the dude just hits ridiculous junk whenever he plays against us. He'd be a hall of fame if he only had to play the Spurs every night.

[cantthinkofanything]

Meh Scola lit Tiago up as soon as he subbed into the game. But he did make Luis make some really ridiculous shots that he always seems to hit against us.

Blair, as usual, gambled way too much in defending him and got burned for doing so.

I thought Timmy did the best job on Scola but the dude just hits ridiculous junk whenever he plays against us. He'd be a hall of fame if he only had to play the Spurs every night.

Imagine how good the Spurs could be if they ever had the opportunity to get a Scola-like player.

[silverblk mystix]

:pop: Matty is the centerpiece! STFU now...Tiago was injured all 82 games last season....

Timmy needs someone to spread the floor for him because Timmy has not dropped off since 1999.

Are you guys blind?

[cantthinkofanything]

:pop: Matty is the centerpiece! STFU now...Tiago was injured all 82 games last season....

Timmy needs someone to spread the floor for him because Timmy has not dropped off since 1999.

Are you guys blind?

You've just inspired me...

[TDMVPDPOY]

you watch the game, u can actually see bonner plays really hard, he plays at +110% but thats just not enough against players who are playin below scrub level just coasting the season yet he still gets outplayed by scrubs

[pawe]

What's with the china?

[Stalin]

its funny to see how opposing bigs treat bonner as if he's not even there

[Brazil]

On a serious note I think he is limited by some kind of injury

[cantthinkofanything]

On a serious note I think he is limited by some kind of injury

Yes, he suffers from Whiteness.

[xmas1997]

Yes, he suffers from Whiteness.


:rollin:lmao That's funny, ................ you bigot! :lol

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Matt is an asset to the team. He actually is an adequate team defender and rebounder. He knows the system and doesn't make many mistakes in rotations or play executions. He doesn't turn the ball over. He doesn't try to do more than he can, he shares the ball if his shot isn't there. And on offense he has to be accounted for by the other team's defense, which makes them work. He will pop the three on a kickout if his man drops off to challenge a dribble drive, or if he's closed out on he is increasingly able to ball fake and drive for a floater or a baby hook, and his man knows this, so he won't challenge. This really helps to open up the lanes. And, he's completely over himself, in fact he always was, which is really important to be a Spur. There's a reason the Spurs are paying him. They are actually smarter than you about this. :)

He's really not comparable to Tiago, two very different sets of capabilities they bring when they're out there.

Compared to Novak, Bonner is very superior. Novak is nowhere near an adequate defender or rebounder, and his 3 point shooting is somewhat better than Bonner's (he's able to get his shot off quicker for example), but not THAT much better.

[Horse]

He is just awful how many put backs does Pop have to see before he pulls him? And bonner is terrible defending the PNR. He should only be used if he's having a great shooting night and still only a few minutes at a time.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Matt is an asset to the team. He actually is an adequate team defender and rebounder. He knows the system and doesn't make many mistakes in rotations or play executions. He doesn't turn the ball over. He doesn't try to do more than he can, he shares the ball if his shot isn't there. And on offense he has to be accounted for by the other team's defense, which makes them work. He will pop the three on a kickout if his man drops off to challenge a dribble drive, or if he's closed out on he is increasingly able to ball fake and drive for a floater or a baby hook, and his man knows this, so he won't challenge. This really helps to open up the lanes. And, he's completely over himself, in fact he always was, which is really important to be a Spur. There's a reason the Spurs are paying him. They are actually smarter than you about this. :)

He's really not comparable to Tiago, two very different sets of capabilities they bring when they're out there.

Compared to Novak, Bonner is very superior. Novak is nowhere near an adequate defender or rebounder, and his 3 point shooting is somewhat better than Bonner's (he's able to get his shot off quicker for example), but not THAT much better.

Matt, get off your computer and work on your shooting please!

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Get real. Have a real discussion or shut up.

The real question about Bonner is, "compared to what?" What is the option you are suggesting other than Bonner that would be better? Just dumping on Bonner because he's not as good as some other people that the Spurs can't get for his price is not helpful.

It's not Tiago, they are different and used for different reasons.

Yes, we all know Bonner is not a strong on-ball defender. But how many people are in this league are, who are also an offensive presence? I think they're called all-stars or near-all-stars. We all know Bonner is not that. At least Bonner doesn't completely bail out and swipe at the ball or keep his hands down, like some others who shall remain nameless on the Spurs and who are a big reason why their defense sucks balls so far. He at least puts up SOME resistance and does the basic fundamentals like keeping his position and getting his hands up and blocking out after the shot. Unlike some (coff James Anderson coff).

[cantthinkofanything]

Get real. Have a real discussion or shut up.

The real question about Bonner is, "compared to what?" What is the option you are suggesting other than Bonner that would be better? Just dumping on Bonner because he's not as good as some other people that the Spurs can't get for his price is not helpful.

It's not Tiago, they are different and used for different reasons.

Yes, we all know Bonner is not a strong on-ball defender. But how many people are in this league are, who are also an offensive presence? I think they're called all-stars or near-all-stars. We all know Bonner is not that. At least Bonner doesn't completely bail out and swipe at the ball or keep his hands down, like some others who shall remain nameless on the Spurs and who are a big reason why their defense sucks balls so far. He at least puts up SOME resistance and does the basic fundamentals like keeping his position and getting his hands up and blocking out after the shot. Unlike some (coff James Anderson coff).

Please tell me what reson Bonner is used for? Then tell me if it's been effective. If not, it's time to try something different. Not keep playing him hoping that it's going to suddenly work. It's been long enough. Yes, Bonner and Tiago are different and do different things. But Tiago's strengths help the team far more than Bonner's. While Bonner's weaknesses hurt the team far more than Tiago's.

Seriously, are you trolling?

[Dex]

Get real. Have a real discussion or shut up.

The real question about Bonner is, "compared to what?" What is the option you are suggesting other than Bonner that would be better? Just dumping on Bonner because he's not as good as some other people that the Spurs can't get for his price is not helpful.

It's not Tiago, they are different and used for different reasons.

Yes, we all know Bonner is not a strong on-ball defender. But how many people are in this league are, who are also an offensive presence? I think they're called all-stars or near-all-stars. We all know Bonner is not that. At least Bonner doesn't completely bail out and swipe at the ball or keep his hands down, like some others who shall remain nameless on the Spurs and who are a big reason why their defense sucks balls so far. He at least puts up SOME resistance and does the basic fundamentals like keeping his position and getting his hands up and blocking out after the shot. Unlike some (coff James Anderson coff).

Matt Bonner puts up about as much resistance as a cardboard cutout of Matt Bonner. You are correct that he keeps his hands up, but that's it. He's rarely in the right position, he leaves his man to try to "help" all the time which usually leads to easy buckets for who he should be guarding because he doesn't have the footspeed to recover, and he's terrible at boxing out. Even when he tries, guys usually just leap over him for the board or knock it away from him.

Standing in the paint and putting your hands straight up in the air ≠ defense.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Please tell me what reson Bonner is used for?


I already did. In detail. Do you have a short term memory problem?



Then tell me if it's been effective. If not, it's time to try something different. Not keep playing him hoping that it's going to suddenly work. It's been long enough.


How effective do you want it to be? He's not a starter, he's a bench player. He's not a Sixth Man of the Year candidate. He's paid on the low end of the scale for guys his size who are in the rotation. You need to set your expectation level. Bonner will win a couple of games for this team just has he has done in seasons past. He will not make many mistakes and will play within the system. He is a very positive member of the team off the court and has gotten over himself. What do you want here?



Yes, Bonner and Tiago are different and do different things. But Tiago's strengths help the team far more than Bonner's. While Bonner's weaknesses hurt the team far more than Tiago's.


Your opinion. I don't think it's a valid comparison. You wouldn't trade one for the other. Plus they are not really competing for minutes in their roles.

Now, if you want to talk Blair vs. Splitter, THAT is an interesting discussion. But let's save that for another time.



Seriously, are you trolling?

Seriously, are you an arrogant jackass who thinks he knows everything and anyone who disagrees with him is either an idiot or a troll?

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Matt Bonner puts up about as much resistance as a cardboard cutout of Matt Bonner. You are correct that he keeps his hands up, but that's it. He's rarely in the right position, he leaves his man to try to "help" all the time which usually leads to easy buckets for who he should be guarding because he doesn't have the footspeed to recover, and he's terrible at boxing out. Even when he tries, guys usually just leap over him for the board or knock it away from him.

Standing in the paint and putting your hands straight up in the air ≠ defense.

We must be watching different games I guess. I think you're letting your biases get in the way. Basketball effectiveness comes in many dimensions, and I think you are only seeing one.

Leaving his man to "help" is done within the defensive system. It's called team defense. It's not a mistake.

I completely disagree he's "terrible" at boxing out. He's actually pretty good at it. The guys that "Leap over him" often foul him. And those guys can leap over anyone.

And I don't know if you've noticed this while watching Spurs games this year, but a hell of a lot of teams are getting a hell of a lot of "easy buckets" on everyone on the Spurs. The defense is in its training camp phase.

[cantthinkofanything]

How effective do you want it to be? He's not a starter, he's a bench player. He's not a Sixth Man of the Year candidate. He's paid on the low end of the scale for guys his size who are in the rotation. You need to set your expectation level.

Bonner plays starter minutes. He's paid at the top end of the scale for guys with his skill level.


Bonner will win a couple of games for this team just has he has done in seasons past.

Bonner will lose more games for the Spurs than he will win. Directly by his bad defense and missing shots when it counts. Indirectly by taking up minutes that shoud be used to develop other players.



He will not make many mistakes and will play within the system.


He makes many many mistakes. The only reason he doesn't make more is because he's too slow to get in position to make them.


He is a very positive member of the team off the court and has gotten over himself

Gay much?



Your opinion. I don't think it's a valid comparison. You wouldn't trade one for the other. Plus they are not really competing for minutes in their roles.


I would trade Bonner for Splitter every single time. And they are competing for the same minutes. You obviously don't watch the games or understand basketball.



Now, if you want to talk Blair vs. Splitter, THAT is an interesting discussion. But let's save that for another time.


ooohhh. the anticipation


Seriously, are you an arrogant jackass who thinks he knows everything and anyone who disagrees with him is either an idiot or a troll?

Go learn more basketball, then come back and fuck yourself.

[jermaine]

I don't think Bonner should get major mins, but he tries. That's all I'm saying. A miget can't help the fact that he's a miget. But he still tries to feel normal. That's how I feel about Bonner.

[cantthinkofanything]

I don't think Bonner should get major mins, but he tries. That's all I'm saying. A miget can't help the fact that he's a miget. But he still tries to feel normal. That's how I feel about Bonner.

Agreed. But if you pay that midget a ton of money for something he isn't capable of doing and continually favor that midget over better qualified personel, I'm going to eventually hate that midget.

[KuntryDude]

I don't think Bonner should get major mins, but he tries. That's all I'm saying. A miget can't help the fact that he's a miget. But he still tries to feel normal. That's how I feel about Bonner.


I hear ya bro. And you're entitled to that. But that mf sucks bad!!!

[Interrohater]

A miget can't help the fact that he's a miget. But he still tries to feel normal. That's how I feel about Bonner.

:lmao

For a better price, we should keep Novak. He can shoot just as well and plays defense just as well. The reason that Boner plays better team defense is because he has corporate knowledge. Bring Novak in for a couple of seasons and we'll have the exact same guy for way cheaper. Plus, we can pay him on a month-to-month basis. Like a cell phone.

[portnoy1]

All in All it has alot to do with Duncan's decline and Pop trying to simplify things on offense. Before, as in 5-6 seasons ago Duncan was good for 25/10 any given night. Add to that Parker and Ginobili were doing there thing+ plus Pop ran more half-court motion sets during times when the big 3 couldn't do it one on one.

During the 08-09 season with Manu being out, Pop needed to get 20-25pts from somewhere. How do you do that with a point guard that has piss poor court vision? You simplify the offense to suit him. Instead of Bowen/Oberto and their defense, Pop went with Bonner/Mason Jr. for their offense. My point? Parker likes to drive and the one effective pass he can make is the kick out. So Pop surrounded him with 3pt shooters and the Spurs were able to alot of scoring.

08-09 also was where Tim Duncan really fell off health-wise and mobility-wise (not stat-wise, but if you watched those games you'll see what I mean). And often Injured Manu and a slow-old Duncan leaves Parker with his health as your best offensive option available night in night out.

By getting a more capable point guard that can shoot or putting in place a better offense Bonner would not need to get those minutes.

[therealtruth]

:lmao

For a better price, we should keep Novak. He can shoot just as well and plays defense just as well. The reason that Boner plays better team defense is because he has corporate knowledge. Bring Novak in for a couple of seasons and we'll have the exact same guy for way cheaper. Plus, we can pay him on a month-to-month basis. Like a cell phone.

Novak also has a quick release which is useful in the playoffs. Horry doesn't hit those 3's in '05 and '03 if he has a slow release. Bonner has a slow release and isn't able to make teams consistently pay when they run him off the line. He can drive the lane if it's open or get to a spot to shoot from.

[ElNono]

doesn't make many mistakes in rotations

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[ElNono]

I don't think Bonner should get major mins, but he tries. That's all I'm saying. A miget can't help the fact that he's a miget. But he still tries to feel normal. That's how I feel about Bonner.

jermaine, son, I agree... that said, Brian Scalabrine plays at +110% too... he just isn't very good...

[YoMamaIsCallin]

You just completely revealed yourself as a bigoted asshole with the gay slur.

[Horse]

This is all you need to know we have enough offense. so why the fuck is bonner playing? His great D?

[therealtruth]

jermaine, son, I agree... that said, Brian Scalabrine plays at +110% too... he just isn't very good...

No way. I don't see Bonner trying as hard as guys like Scalabrine or Cardinal. When's the last time you saw Bonner diving to the floor, getting a deflection, taking a charge, taking a hard foul, or forcing a turnover? It sure doesn't happen often enough for a guy with limited skill.

[underdawg]

No way. I don't see Bonner trying as hard as guys like Scalabrine or Cardinal. When's the last time you saw Bonner diving to the floor, getting a deflection, taking a charge, taking a hard foul, or forcing a turnover? It sure doesn't happen often enough for a guy with limited skill.

bonner hustles as much as either one of those players during the regular season, but for some reason he shrivels up in the playoffs.

look - plain and simple bonner is not the worst player with equivalent skills and salary - look at james jones & radmanovic as their stats from last year were about the same as bonner's and they make as much or more than bonner.

I'm just hoping one day the FO could move bonner to a team that could use him for the skills that he has and get a player that was more rounded and not so specialized. The spurs could hide bonner's weaknesses when the big 3 were more consistent, but now the spurs need better role players than they've needed before.

[Plumblbw]

UnderDawg,

Your signature freaks me out :o) A bit like GSH's profle pic (I think that's his username (I like his posts nonetheless)).

As you say, I think there are teams out there lacking 3pt shooting that could see *some* value to Bonner. However, I think GT is always going to have the same problem (I'm talking purely offensively here, we all know about the D) come playoff time. During the regular season he gets wide open 3 point shots, but during the playoffs when the defence tightens up and they close out on the shooters hard and fast, he has to either take a contested 3 or he bails out and puts the ball on the floor. I still cringe every time I see him pump fake and drive. He seems to (post (That's as in after, nothing to do with him posting up :-) drive)) get caught in limbo where he doesn't know whether to pullup for a midrange jumper, pass to another shooter or take it all the way to the rim (there is ironically a clip on youtube of him pump faking, driving and then finishing a two-handed slam on the raptors).

[therealtruth]

Meh Scola lit Tiago up as soon as he subbed into the game. But he did make Luis make some really ridiculous shots that he always seems to hit against us.

Blair, as usual, gambled way too much in defending him and got burned for doing so.

I thought Timmy did the best job on Scola but the dude just hits ridiculous junk whenever he plays against us. He'd be a hall of fame if he only had to play the Spurs every night.

Tiago's got to be able to help establish the defensive tone from the start of a game. Once a guy's hot it's much harder to defend them.

[therealtruth]

bonner hustles as much as either one of those players during the regular season, but for some reason he shrivels up in the playoffs.

look - plain and simple bonner is not the worst player with equivalent skills and salary - look at james jones & radmanovic as their stats from last year were about the same as bonner's and they make as much or more than bonner.

I'm just hoping one day the FO could move bonner to a team that could use him for the skills that he has and get a player that was more rounded and not so specialized. The spurs could hide bonner's weaknesses when the big 3 were more consistent, but now the spurs need better role players than they've needed before.

I wasn't talking about stats. I was talking about hustle plays that get the team energized and the crowd into the game. They don't show up in the stat sheet but help you to win. Just not making too many mistakes and hitting 3's isn't good enough.