Spurs Salaries, 2011-2012 Edition

[Bruno]

Whenever a team sign a player or do a trade, there aren't only basketball considerations but also financial considerations. Only the basketball side matters for fans but if you want to understand moves made and have an idea about what moves will be done, you had to look at the financial side.
Basketball is the Yang, money is the Yin.


Spurs 11-12 salaries :

Players with a guaranteed contract :
Spurs have 15 players with a fully guaranteed salary:
Tim Duncan: $21,164,619
Manu Ginobili: $12,981,038
Tony Parker: $12,500,000
Stephen Jackson: $9,256,500
Tiago Splitter: $3,672,000
Matt Bonner: $3,315,000
Kawhi Leonard: $1,731,960
James Anderson: $1,463,520
DeJuan Blair: $986,000
Cory Joseph: $942,700
Danny Green: $854,389
Gary Neal: $788,872 (count for $854,389 against the tax)
Patty Mills: $261,829
Boris Diaw: $241,158 (the league will give him an additional $104,090)
Derrick Byars: $12,293 (count for $13,780 against the tax)
Antonio McDyess*: $2,640,000
Malcolm Thomas*: $114,582 (count for $206,707 against the tax)
Ike Diogu*: $75,793
Eric Dawson*: $38,194 (count for $68,902 against the tax)
Eric Dawson*: $38,194 (count for $68,902 against the tax)
Justin Dentmon*: $38,194 (count for $68,902 against the tax)

The total salary for these 15 players is $73,116,835 ($73,368,088 against the tax)

Pro-ration:
Because of the shortened season, Players won't get their full salary this year. They will be paid 66/82th of it. Salaries given above are full salaries and not the prorated version.


The Luxury Tax:

What is the luxury tax?
The luxury tax is a mechanism whose first goal is to reduce the differences between the richest and the poorest franchises. This mechanism will be stronger after the 2012-2013 season when the new progressive luxury tax will apply.
In Early July, the league calculates a threshold based on an evaluation of its revenue for the next season. At the end of the season, teams whose payroll is higher than the luxury tax threshold pay a dollar for each dollar above the threshold. The money given by all the taxpayers is then divided. Half of this money is equally divided between teams below the tax and the other half is either equally divided between all the franchises or used by the league.

The double penalty system:
A team above the tax is two time penalized. First, they had to pay the $ for $ tax. Second, they don't get a share of the luxury tax money given by NBA teams.
This system has two consequences:
- The $ for $ tax pushes teams with payroll significantly higher than the luxury tax threshold to lower their payroll.
- The redistribution system pushes teams that are just above the tax to go just under. What is problematic for a team $100K above the tax isn't the additional $100K to pay in tax but the $3M you don't get during the redistribution.

Luxury tax threshold in 11-12:
The 2011-2012 luxury tax threshold is $70.307M.

Total luxury tax paid in 11-12:
This number is really important for a team close to the luxury tax level because it determines how hard they should try to stay/go under the threshold.
6 teams (Lakers, Celtics, Heat, Mavs, Spurs and Hawks) should paid some luxury tax for a total amount of $40M. Teams below the tax will get 1/48th of this, that is to say $833K. This redistribution is significantly lower than in the past. When you consider the pro-ration, it even drops to $670K.

Impact of the luxury tax on Spurs for 11-12:
Spurs will end the season $3.06M above the tax threshold. Given the low redistribution and the pro-ration, it isn't too penalizing this year to be a little above the tax.


Spurs 12-13 salaries :

Players with a guaranteed contract :
Manu Ginobili: $14,107,492
Tony Parker: $12,500,000
Stephen Jackson: $10,059,750
Tiago Splitter: $3,944,000
Matt Bonner: $3,630,000
Kawhi Leonard: $1,809,840
Cory Joseph: $1,074,720

The total salary for these 7 players is $47,125,802

Players without a guaranteed contract or with a player option:
DeJuan Blair with a $1,054,000 salary that is fully unguaranteed and become fully guaranteed on November 1st 2012.
Patty Mills has a $885,120 player option.
Gary Neal with a $854,389 unguaranteed salary.
Derrick Byars has a $854,389 unguaranteed salary.

Spurs and the luxury tax in 12-13:
The luxury tax in 2012-2013 should be at $70.3M. If Spurs keep Blair and Neal and if Mills doesn't opt out, their payroll will be $49.9M. Spurs will have $20.4M below the tax to re-sign Duncan, Green, use the MLE ($5M) and sign few players to vet min contracts. Spurs should be able to stay below the tax in 2012-2013.


After 12-13:

Players under contract for 2013-2014:
5 players have contracts for 2013-2014:
- Tony Parker with a $12,500,000 salary.
- Matt Bonner with a $3,945,000 salary. $1M is guaranteed and it becomes fully guaranteed on June 29th 2013.
- Kawhi Leonard with a $1,887,840 salary. This year is a team option that must be picked before November 1st 2012.
- Cory Joseph with a $1,120,920 salary. This year is a team option that must be picked before November 1st 2012.

Players under contract for 2014-2015:
3 player is under contract for 2014-2015:
- Tony Parker with a $12,500,000 salary. Only $3.5M is guaranteed.
- Kawhi Leonard with a $2,894,059 salary. This year is a team option that must be picked before November 1st 2013.
- Cory Joseph with a $2,023,261 salary. This year is a team option that must be picked before November 1st 2013.

What can we say about that:
After 12-13, the new luxury tax will kick in and the luxury tax threshold will act almost as an hard cap for a team like Spurs. Spurs could also be in rebuilding mode and needs some cap space.
When you consider Bonner's 13-14 salary is only $1M guaranteed and that he could be amnestied, Spurs will be in a really good financial shape.


PS: Salaries numbers comes from ShamSports (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp). Thanks to Sham for his great work.

[Bruno]

I'm going to fill up the first post later today with the salary situation for 2012-2013 and beyond.

[Bruno]

I'm going to fill up the first post later today with the salary situation for 2012-2013 and beyond.

Done.
Let me know if I've made some mistakes or if you have some questions. Numbers will be adjusted when details are available.

[timvp]

Fantastic work, Bruno.

[Libri]

Excellent work.

[Leetonidas]

I was just thinking about this earlier. I need to see who is becoming a FA next season so I can try and contemplate my fantasy sceanrios

[dunkman]

It's interesting the Spurs could offer max salary for Dwight Howard the next season. He's certainly gone from Orlando. The Spurs have a great coach and many pieces that would allow Howard win various MVP's and championships.

[xmas1997]

In the grand scheme of things I think he is looking more for the money and fame, rather than the championships simply due to his choices of where to relocate.

[Bruno]

thanks timvp and Libri. :toast


I was just thinking about this earlier. I need to see who is becoming a FA next season so I can try and contemplate my fantasy sceanrios

You can find a list of 2012 free agents on espn:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-11-12

[DPG21920]

A lot will depend on Tim obviously. I dont think it's reasonable to assume Tim will accept 5M per year, but that would be nice. The FA class isn't all that great but with cap space you also have to consider trades in addition to free agency since you can absorb salaries without sending money back which allows you to get good players as well.

We also have to look at what the Spurs goal is beyond next year. It's hard to tell.

[timvp]

I was wondering whether or not Green would be restricted ... good news that he is.

And regarding JA, I'm guessing the Spurs won't pick up his option. The Spurs have been stingy with options, especially if there is a chance to open up salary cap space. For example, the Spurs declined a smaller option on Speedy Claxton just to save room under the cap.

[DPG21920]

I hope the Spurs decide to go for one last push. If they do that I would like them to take some short term risks. Go after some older vets on creative 1 or 2 year deals. A scenario I would like to see: Resign Tim & go after KG.

[Bruno]

I was wondering whether or not Green would be restricted ... good news that he is.

And regarding JA, I'm guessing the Spurs won't pick up his option. The Spurs have been stingy with options, especially if there is a chance to open up salary cap space. For example, the Spurs declined a smaller option on Speedy Claxton just to save room under the cap.

What is good too with Green is that his early bird rights cap hold is very low. The tactic would be to re-sign Green after having spend the cap space on other free agents. Even if Green new deal start at $3M or $4M, it won't eat cap space.

If Spurs are seriously considering using cap space next summer, Spurs will face a tough choice with Anderson's option. Right now, they might think that Manu will be the starting SG, Leonard the starting SF, Neal the backup SG and Green the backup SF. It will turn Anderson into a 3rd stringer who will only play garbage time of if there is an injury. Anyway, Spurs have still 10 days left to make their choice. I guess they will look closely at what Anderson and Green will do during that time.

I'm also curious to see Joseph and Leonard deal. Will it be structure to maximize some capspace next summer? It seems that they have lowballed Joseph by only signing him for about 110% of the rookie scale on his first year.

[dunkman]

The Spurs could offer Duncan something like $5M - $6M - $7M 50% guaranteed. Which is basically $14.5M for 2 seasons. They used the same scheme to save cap space with Bowen, Horry and Dice's contracts.

[venitian navigator]

One thing I frankly don't understand is why we should give up on players that have undoubtedly some sort of chance to develop in more than decent players inside a very money/friendly contract...for limited money beneficials.
We already made this mistake before, and we should have learned from that.
I mean, in situations like the Scola, Mahinmi and, now, Anderson ones, signing or keeping the players till their chance to be paid less than their more than possible value in the following years, is a sort of gift you can't refuse.
After all, that's the first way to have valuable pieces in the trade market.
Anderson has been considered and still is a more than valuable player...paying him something like one million dollars is nothing compared to the possible trade market value he could have after just playing decently some games... plus, he's a commodity, being a more than decent "third" option.
This small amount of money is not what put us in danger...on the contrary, this is the kind of sacrifice you can ask to our "big players" to take when they have to be re-signed.

[CGD]

Thanks for this excellent write up! The fun will be to see who the spurs target. I'd make a qualifying offer to restricted FA Roy Hibbert; however, the small-market Pacer, who are well below the cap, would likely match (though they'll also concurrently have to match QOs on George Hill).

If the Spurs are going to amnesty RJ, it'll have to be next summer I would think. Otherwise, he enters that territory by the 2013 trade deadline where he becomes a valuable expiring contract. I think he stays, unless Anderson/Green convince the Spurs they are viable replacements.

[intlspurshk]

Apart from Roy Hibbert and B Bass, there are not many good role-players. Star will not come to SA. Guess part of the cap space will be spent on signing either Colo or Lorbek?

[5in10]

Anyone know what our cap space would be next with duncan expiring and amnestying RJ?

[TDMVPDPOY]

not many players in the league that are franchise players that could take the spurs forward....they all lack something and have there needs and wants that the spurs/city cant give them from a lifestyle pov...

the players from the 03 class are all locked in, the later classes are just trash imo...

i want aldridge or amare on this team, for their shitty defense, we have enough calibre players down low and on the perimeter with green/KL to cover their defensive weaknesses, these guys carry the offensive load...

[Maddog]

One thing I frankly don't understand is why we should give up on players that have undoubtedly some sort of chance to develop in more than decent players inside a very money/friendly contract...for limited money beneficials.
We already made this mistake before, and we should have learned from that.
I mean, in situations like the Scola, Mahinmi and, now, Anderson ones, signing or keeping the players till their chance to be paid less than their more than possible value in the following years, is a sort of gift you can't refuse.
After all, that's the first way to have valuable pieces in the trade market.
Anderson has been considered and still is a more than valuable player...paying him something like one million dollars is nothing compared to the possible trade market value he could have after just playing decently some games... plus, he's a commodity, being a more than decent "third" option.
This small amount of money is not what put us in danger...on the contrary, this is the kind of sacrifice you can ask to our "big players" to take when they have to be re-signed.
The reason the Spurs do it is simple- Cash.
They are operate on a narrow margin. Mahinmi showed only a modicum of promise and was due 1.8 million if his option was picked up. Scola same story. In 07 the Spurs where slightly over the cap with several memebers of the title team needing to be resigned and others with increasing salary. So they dumped Beno and used Scola to reduce cap space (Butler). In 07 the view on Scola was quite different- the Spurs tried to get a 1st round pick but no would go far it- the thought of many scouts was his game would not translate into the NBA.
I'm not saying this is right, but that is how they have operated.
I am with TMVP- I getting a strong feeling they will not pick up Andersons option.

[The ADMIRAL 50]

thanks bruno :tu awesome work

I for one am definitely hoping we go after Hibbert or Javale McGee so that we can lock down our starting center gig for the foreseeable future. Hibbert would be the preferred choice but if McGee could ever get his head together man could he be a beast. Both are restricted though.

Batum is a player that, in the past, I along with many other Spurstalkers have wanted in silver and black. With Lenard on the roster now, though, I think it would be foolish to use our resources on him, especially with the type of deal I see him getting.

Obviously, the fantasy is Dwight. If winning were important to him there's no doubt SA would be a great option, but c'mon, I really don't see us landing him at all. The guy wants to go to a big market and that's what I obviously expect to happen.

[jesterbobman]

If The Spurs go ahead with the Master plan, what are the options on the trade front?

Say Duncan resigns for 6 million, and we have 10million left (Simplifying the numbers a little), We could (if this information from ESPN is correct) trade for a player making an even higher salary

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Non-taxpaying teams (based on their post-trade salary level) can acquire up to the lesser of 150 percent plus $100,000, or 100 percent plus $5 million of the salaries they trade away

If we have 10 million under the cap, we can take back 15.1 million in salary(Plus 150% of the contract value we send out.)

Trading Also has the value of the fact that we're not using Free Agent Money, and could use the 5million MLE rather than the 2.5 million Cap space exception(Similar to how NY traded for Tyson Chandler rather than signing him as a FA, and consequently were able to use the MLE) which would allow us to sign Lorbek and de Colo to deals with exceptions rather than cap space.

If we couldn't trade for a really good player, would a trade for an overpaid big man + pick/swap of picks be reasonable.

For instance, If we have the 20th pick, Would New Orleans OK a Okafor + Minnesota pick (~12th) for Blair + our pick trade? Would we?(Trade occuring in the new season not on draft day, but that's a minor obstacle.)

I'd like Hibbert more, especially as he seems to have learned to rebound, but I don't see the Pacers letting him go, and after that, Okafor seems close to the other bigs who might be on the market, and saving a shit ton of money might motivate the league owned Hornets.

[yavozerb]

Here is a pretty good list and write up of FA's for 2012.



Sporting News NBA writer Sean Deveney takes a look at this summer's free agent crop.


AP photo
Eric Gordon
The headline players selected in the 2008 NBA Draft did pretty well for themselves when it came to signing contract extensions that will make them exponentially richer when they kick in after the season. The Bulls' Derrick Rose ($94 million) and the Thunder's Russell Westbrook signed for the five-year maximum (at $80 million), and though Timberwolves forward Kevin Love signed for only four years (with a player option after Year 3), he did secure a $62 million payday.

In addition, Danilo Gallinari and the Nuggets came to a four-year agreement, inking a contract worth $42 million. And another Nugget was sewn up when center Kosta Koufos signed a three-year extension worth $9 million.

But beyond that, a gaggle of pretty talented players let the deadline pass without putting their names on new contracts. While that might be worrisome for fans of those players' teams—as well as the accountants for those players—it is very good news for general managers whose teams are expected to have, or be able to create through use of the amnesty provision, enough money to make max-contract offers next summer.

That's because, for all the attention that the Summer of '12 free-agent marquee names—Dwight Howard and Deron Williams—have gotten, there simply is not a lot behind them. There are some pretty good point guards after Williams (Steve Nash, Ray Felton, Andre Miller, Chauncey Billups), but not much is out there at other positions. There are expected to be about a dozen teams with significant cap space available, and once the futures of Williams and Howard are decided, they can't all wind up bidding on Gerald Wallace and Chris Kaman.

The upcoming summer has been likened to the Summer of '10, when LeBron James, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade were free agents. But that's not a good comparison. "The idea that this is going to be like 2010 was is ridiculous," one East general manager told Sporting News. "When you got past that first layer in 2010, you still had guys like Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay and Amare (Stoudemire). Carlos Boozer was in that class. Felton, Ray Allen, Wes Matthews, Udonis Haslem—there were good players all over the board that summer. Now, you've got a lot of teams with money and it is really a thin class."

Not as thin anymore, at least. Only five of the 26 eligible '08 first-rounders signed contract extensions before the deadline, which means the market has been beefed up because those other 21 will now become restricted free agents. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Teams can still match offers for their own restricted free agents, but the waiting period for decisions on matching—which had been seven days, long enough to be a disincentive for teams that might have made offers—has been cut to three days. There will be enough cap space floating around next summer to make being a restricted free agent much less of a hassle than it has been in the past.

Consider the layers that have just been added to the summer market:

Top shelvers

Eric Gordon, Hornets; Roy Hibbert, Pacers; Brook Lopez, Nets. The Hornets, still owned by the NBA, received approval to make Gordon a four-year offer, and it was somewhat of a surprise that Gordon—who has played just twice this year because of a bad knee—held out for the full five years, especially because the most he can get on the open market will be four years anyway. He is one of the league's best young scorers, though, and immediately vaulted to the top of many teams' summer wish lists. Hibbert and Lopez, both centers, probably will have whatever offers they receive matched by their teams, but considering the lack of size among potential free agents, they will still draw plenty of interest.

Potential top-shelvers

Ryan Anderson, Magic; Nicolas Batum, Trail Blazers; O.J. Mayo, Grizzlies. Because of all the uncertainty around Howard, the Magic declined to offer up an extension to Anderson this offseason, but he has put forth a breakout year (16.8 points and 6.9 rebounds) that will guarantee he gets a good payday next year. Batum hasn't quite had the breakout year some expected for him, but he has still shown enough talent to be a major free-agent target, especially if the Blazers push to keep fellow small forward Gerald Wallace. Mayo finally appears to be embracing his role as sixth man in Memphis, and if he maintains his numbers and his good attitude, he will only boost his value.

Quality role players

Darrell Arthur, Grizzlies; Jerryd Bayless, Raptors; D.J. Augustin, Bobcats; Jason Thompson, Kings; Brandon Rush, Warriors; George Hill, Pacers; Courtney Lee, Rockets; Robin Lopez, Suns. The Warriors and Pacers tried to get something done on Rush and Hill, respectively, but those two now move to the top of the list for teams looking for backcourt depth off the bench. Lee is also a very effective backcourt defender who can knock down 3s. Thompson, Lopez and Arthur could provide rotation depth for anybody's frontcourt.

Upside gambles

Michael Beasley, Timberwolves; Anthony Randolph, Timberwolves; Marreese Speights, Grizzlies; JaVale McGee, Wizards; J.J. Hickson, Kings. All five of these guys have shown enough talent to make them worthy of continued chances in the NBA. But all five have shown some form of inconsistency, knuckleheadedness or lack of basketball IQ-in Beasley's case, all three-to keep them from getting a big contract.

-- This story originally appeared on SportingNews.com

[CGD]

I too am a big Hibbert fan, but the Pacer's will in all likelihood match any offer sheet (though it's not without it's limits to the extent they are after E. Gordon).

Brook Lopez has always intrigued me for his offensive game, but his shockingly low rebounding numbers have always put me off and now he's coming off an injury. The Nets will be in an interesting pickle this summer: they'll have to allow Howard enough time to weigh their offer, but at the same time not sleep on matching any offer sheet for Lopez. Nets have a lot riding on that offer to Howard (new stadium, J. Will's happiness). Lopez ripe for the picking?

[Bruno]

If we have 10 million under the cap, we can take back 15.1 million in salary(Plus 150% of the contract value we send out.)

Nope, you can't.

You can't trade cap space like that. The 150% rule only apply when you trade away players. When a team is $10M below the cap, they can trade for a player paid $10M. If you use cap space in a trade, you must remain below the cap after it.



Trading Also has the value of the fact that we're not using Free Agent Money, and could use the 5million MLE rather than the 2.5 million Cap space exception(Similar to how NY traded for Tyson Chandler rather than signing him as a FA, and consequently were able to use the MLE)

Nope, you don't have a MLE in that case.
If you use your cap space in a trade, you can't use the MLE.
Knicks haven't use the MLE, since they don't have it, or even the room exception this year.

[jesterbobman]

OK Thanks Bruno. I thought I'd read a Hollinger piece about that, but looking at it again, I misread it. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Mal]

If Jefferson is amnested, he get paid 11mil, which are his player option in 13/14 ?

[Bruno]

If Jefferson is amnested, he get paid 11mil, which are his player option in 13/14 ?

If Spurs get amnestied this summer, Spurs will have to pay the last 2 years on his contract for a total of $21.2M. Being amnestied doesn't cancel player options, it would be too good to be true.

[5in10]

Very hypothetical...Say we end up trading Jefferson for Kaman this year. We than have to trade JA and Blair with him....The summer of 2012 rolls around and Duncans contract comes off the books as well as Kamans. We amnesty TP which someone would obviously pick him up off waivers(paying a portion of his contract)....Would that leave us enough cap room to sign both D.Howard and D.Will?

[Mal]

Very hypothetical...Say we end up trading Jefferson for Kaman this year. We than have to trade JA and Blair with him....The summer of 2012 rolls around and Duncans contract comes off the books as well as Kamans. We amnesty TP which someone would obviously pick him up off waivers(paying a portion of his contract)....Would that leave us enough cap room to sign both D.Howard and D.Will?

Spurs would have around 26,5 mil commited to Gino, Kawhi, Tiago, Bonner, Joseph, Neal and 21st pick. You fill it with 6 minimum contracts, so it gives you less then 30 mil. With such Spurs would have 28 mil in space. Paying them less, and attract them to SA is less then impossible :)

[elemento]

If Spurs get amnestied this summer, Spurs will have to pay the last 2 years on his contract for a total of $21.2M. Being amnestied doesn't cancel player options, it would be too good to be true.

I have a question Bruno. What happens with the last year of Bonner's contract if we use the amnesty clause on him ?

Let's say we use it next season and a team claims him off waivers for 2m/year. We would pay 1.63m in 12/13. But what happens in the next season considering that his contract is only 1m guaranteed?

[Mel_13]

I have a question Bruno. What happens with the last year of Bonner's contract if we use the amnesty clause on him ?

Let's say we use it next season and a team claims him off waivers for 2m/year. We would pay 1.63m in 12/13. But what happens in the next season considering that his contract is only 1m guaranteed?

This is where we need an updated FAQ from Coon.

Common sense says that the team gets to make a decision on team options/partial guarantees at the time that the player is placed on waivers under the amnesty provision. Otherwise, you could get a situation where a team pays more money for an option year if the player is claimed than they would if the player remained unclaimed.

That wouldn't make sense, but I don't know where to look to for confirmation.

[Bruno]

Yeah, it's impossible to answer at that for now while the CBA hasn't been published to the public.

[elemento]

Thanks Mel and Bruno for the info :toast

Still, i don't think the Spurs will use the amnesty clause on him anyway :lol

[vander]

have there been any actual hints or whispers from the Spurs organization that Bonner will be amnestied?

or is this assumption just the product of spursfan's ignorant and irrational hatred of Bonner?

[TDMVPDPOY]

Maybe someone might be familiar with this how playoff revenue is shared...

home teams players get proceeds from playoff games, so much does the team actually collect from ticket sales per home playoff game?

so does that mean the scrub at the end of the playoff roster gets the same amount shared among the playoff roster?? lol playoff revenue sharing...

lol nba trying to milk more money from extending a series

[TDMVPDPOY]

Maybe someone might be familiar with this how playoff revenue is shared...

home teams players get proceeds from playoff games, so how much does the team actually collect from ticket sales per home playoff game?

so does that mean the scrub at the end of the playoff roster gets the same amount shared among the playoff roster?? lol playoff revenue sharing...

lol nba trying to milk more money from extending a series

[intlspurshk]

I have some reservation that whether Tiago is in SPUR's long term plan, considering that he is not utilised to the full extent.

Would Pacer be willing to trade Roy Hibbert for Tiago + filler? Would Roy be re-signed at 8M per year?

[TDMVPDPOY]

I have some reservation that whether Tiago is in SPUR's long term plan, considering that he is not utilised to the full extent.

Would Pacer be willing to trade Roy Hibbert for Tiago + filler? Would Roy be re-signed at 8M per year?

dunno what crack ur smoking, but im sure the pacers FO would tell you to step away from the keyboard

[elemento]

Hibbert will get the max or close to it. You guys can book it.

Honestly, I prefer Splitter with his current salary than Hibbert and his next huge contract. He isn't a max player, but he will get it because decent BIGS get paid in the NBA. If the Pacers don't offer him the max or something close to it, another NBA team will.

[elemento]

Hibbert will get the max or close to it. You guys can book it.

Honestly, I prefer Splitter with his current salary than Hibbert and his next huge contract. He isn't a max player, but he will get it because decent BIGS get paid in the NBA. If the Pacers don't offer him the max or something close to it, another NBA team will.

[Ozzy]

Nice article on Espn: Highest-paying teams in the world (http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7850531/espn-magazine-sportingintelligence-global-salary-survey-espn-magazine). Spurs are high on the list.

Too bad european basketball clubs are missing from the list.

[vander]

IMO Spurs need to find a way to dump Manu's 14 million next year if they want to keep being competitive in Duncan's final 2-3 years.

[tesseractive]

IMO Spurs need to find a way to dump Manu's 14 million next year if they want to keep being competitive in Duncan's final 2-3 years.

As in not have it on the books for next year? Or as in let it ride for a year, then let Manu either retire or sign for a reduced sum, depending on his wishes?

[Man In Black]

https://webfiles.uci.edu/lcoon/cbafaq/salarycap.htm

May 6, 2012: New version for the 2011 CBA.

Note: This FAQ will be moving to a new host as soon as the domain transfer is complete. The entire site will then be under the cbafaq.com domain, and you will need to update any bookmarks that point to individual questions in the FAQ.

Larry Coon is the go to guy when you want to know the CBA...here we have Bruno and others but Larry is the guy that gets paid to study the CBA. I wish Bruno got paid :toast

[Bruno]

Well, Spurs can use the amnesty clause on Manu and have over $20M in cap space. :stirpot:

[Man In Black]

https://webfiles.uci.edu/lcoon/cbafaq/salarycap.htm

May 6, 2012: New version for the 2011 CBA.

Note: This FAQ will be moving to a new host as soon as the domain transfer is complete. The entire site will then be under the cbafaq.com domain, and you will need to update any bookmarks that point to individual questions in the FAQ.

[vander]

Well, Spurs can use the amnesty clause on Manu and have over $20M in cap space. :stirpot:

not a fan of the amnesty clause, still have to pay out the salary.

would like a 50% buyout. would love to somehow work out a sign and trade Batum for Manu with the Blazers; give them cash, picks, whatever it takes :downspin:

[Bruno]

https://webfiles.uci.edu/lcoon/cbafaq/salarycap.htm

May 6, 2012: New version for the 2011 CBA.

Great. Thanks. :tu

[yavozerb]

IMO Spurs need to find a way to dump Manu's 14 million next year if they want to keep being competitive in Duncan's final 2-3 years.

:lol, do you really believe they will not be competitive the next 2-3 yrs? Do you believe they are competative this season?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

There's no way the Spurs dump Manu's contract or amnesty him, they're not that dumb.

[Bruno]

A couple of things about the new CBA after a quick read of Larry Coon's FAQ.

* First, the biggest change for Spurs this summer is regarding Danny Green Qualifying Offer.

https://webfiles.uci.edu/lcoon/cbafaq/salarycap.htm#Q46


the player may qualify for a higher or lower qualifying offer based on whether or not he met the "starter criteria" in the previous season, or in the average of the previous two seasons. The starter criteria are based on starting 41 games or playing at least 2,000 minutes in the regular season.
Danny Green has started 38 games of a 66 games season. He met the "starter criteria".

If a second round pick or undrafted player met the starter criteria following his second or third season in the league, his qualifying offer equals the amount of the qualifying offer applicable to the 21st pick in the first round of the same draft class, if this amount is higher than the qualifying offer he otherwise would have received.
Green was a second round pick of the 2009 draft. His qualifying offer is $3,342,175. It's fully guaranteed like all the QO in the new CBA.

This biggest QO has two consequences. It's less obvious for Spurs to tender the QO but given how well Green has played, they will likely offer it. If Green doesn't get a contract offer he likes this summer, it will be easier for him to accept the QO and try again to get a big contract next summer when he will be an UFA.


* Second, there are a rule change regarding international first round picks:
https://webfiles.uci.edu/lcoon/cbafaq/salarycap.htm#Q50

An unsigned first round pick is removed from team salary if the team and player both agree in writing not to sign any contract through the following June 30. The scale amount is returned to the team salary the following July 1.
In the previous CBA, an unsigned first round pick eat cap space during the summer even if he was under contract with another team overseas. It has changed now and it would push to more draft and stash with first round picks.

If Spurs are below the cap in 2013 and 2014, they might be reluctant to reduce their cap space with a first round draft pick. In the past their only choice was to trade the pick like they did in 2003 with Josh Howard. They might now draft an international player who doesn't intend to join the NBA the next year (like Mahinmi or Splitter) and keep their whole cap space.

[elemento]

Nice Bruno

I've read it a bit and it looks like we won't be able to use both MLE and new level (the one that starts in 2.5m). I know some guys wanted to bring Diaw back with the MLE and then try to bring Lorbek with this new midlevel, but that won't be possible. Bottom line, we're gonna have to choose between Diaw or Lorbek

[Bruno]

I've read it a bit and it looks like we won't be able to use both MLE and new level (the one that starts in 2.5m). I know some guys wanted to bring Diaw back with the MLE and then try to bring Lorbek with this new midlevel, but that won't be possible. Bottom line, we're gonna have to choose between Diaw or Lorbek

Well, there is still the LLE at around $2M per year for Lorbek if Spurs spend their MLE on someone else. It might not be enough money but it isn't a ridiculous offer too.

Even if Spurs still have their MLE available, I'm not sure they would be ready to offer Lorbek a Splitter-like contract. Lorbek could very well end up as a bust in the NBA because he is a bad athlete. Spurs are too the best offensive team in the league, they might be not that interested in bringing an offensive minded player like Lorbek.

[yavozerb]

Nice Bruno

I've read it a bit and it looks like we won't be able to use both MLE and new level (the one that starts in 2.5m). I know some guys wanted to bring Diaw back with the MLE and then try to bring Lorbek with this new midlevel, but that won't be possible. Bottom line, we're gonna have to choose between Diaw or Lorbek

If it does indeed come down to these 2 players I believe it is no brainer to sign Diaw as long as his salary is acceptable to the spurs offseason plan. I am holding out hope that the spurs FO knows something you guys do not and it is indeed possible. Is it still possible to sign Green if Diaw gets paid the mle?

[elemento]

Yes it's possible to bring back Green back because we have his early bird rights.

The only concern i have right now about Green is his bigger QO as Bruno explained before. We will be really close to the tax limit if we bring back Diaw with the full MLE and Duncan signs a 10-12m contract/year.

[yavozerb]

I never heard or saw anything pertaining to Blairs team option for next season being picked up. I also noticed hoopshype still has next season as an option as well and JA confirmed as FA. Just wondering..

[tesseractive]

Danny Green has started 38 games of a 66 games season. He met the "starter criteria".

Do we know that the 41-game requirement is prorated in this way? Or is it possible that he doesn't meet it simply because he didn't start 41 actual games, regardless of the length of the season?

[Bruno]

Do we know that the 41-game requirement is prorated in this way? Or is it possible that he doesn't meet it simply because he didn't start 41 actual games, regardless of the length of the season?

No, Yes.

Larry coon has an item about the pro-ration in his FAQ https://webfiles.uci.edu/lcoon/cbafaq/salarycap.htm#Q11 but he doesn't talk about the starter criteria.

To me, it seems more logical that the 41 games are pro-rated to 33 games but I'm far from being 100% sure of that.

[tesseractive]

No, Yes.

Larry coon has an item about the pro-ration in his FAQ https://webfiles.uci.edu/lcoon/cbafaq/salarycap.htm#Q11 but he doesn't talk about the starter criteria.

To me, it seems more logical that the 41 games are pro-rated to 33 games but I'm far from being 100% sure of that.

Thanks, Bruno. I agree that common sense would dictate that it should be pro-rated, but contract law frequently has nothing to do with common sense. :)

[TDMVPDPOY]

the league rules are fkn shit when teams dont get compensated for losing players cause they cant fit them into their cap...

[elemento]

I never heard or saw anything pertaining to Blairs team option for next season being picked up. I also noticed hoopshype still has next season as an option as well and JA confirmed as FA. Just wondering..

Blair's contract is simply fully non-guaranteed. If The Spurs don't want him for the next season they'll just waive him before November 1st. Considering his low salary (1m), I don't see the Spurs doing it at all. Trading him is a possibility though.

Anderson is gone.

[yavozerb]

Blair's contract is simply fully non-guaranteed. If The Spurs don't want him for the next season they'll just waive him before November 1st. Considering his low salary (1m), I don't see the Spurs doing it at all. Trading him is a possibility though.

Anderson is gone.

Thanks.. Not sure if that 1m would make a difference or not on any FA signings. Hard to say if I prefer Lorbek/Diaw over Blair/Bonner to tell you the truth. Just have to wait and see I guess....

[CGD]

Just catching up with the recent posts; thanks for the analysis Bruno. I dont view Lorbek starting at 2M as unreasonable, though, I recognize it is on the lower end. Certainly Diaw's emergence complicates his leverage.

Could someone please clarify how the LLE/mini-MLE (whatever the new name) can be used as the basis for a multiyear deal? Suppose Lorbek signs to a multiyear deal starting at 2M, does the LLE condition what the Spurs can offer him in the subsequent years of the deal?

Put differently what is preventing the Spurs from offering Lorbek a guaranteed 3 year deal valued at 10M (like Splitter), where in year 2 and 3 he earns a total of 8M? Or hell, a team option in year two for 3M, and a player option for year 3 for 5M. [I'm assuming for this hypothetical that the Spurs have the requisite cap space in 2013 and beyond]

[Mel_13]

Just catching up with the recent posts; thanks for the analysis Bruno. I dont view Lorbek starting at 2M as unreasonable, though, I recognize it is on the lower end. Certainly Diaw's emergence complicates his leverage.

Could someone please clarify how the LLE/mini-MLE (whatever the new name) can be used as the basis for a multiyear deal? Suppose Lorbek signs to a multiyear deal starting at 2M, does the LLE condition what the Spurs can offer him in the subsequent years of the deal?

Put differently what is preventing the Spurs from offering Lorbek a guaranteed 3 year deal valued at 10M (like Splitter), where in year 2 and 3 he earns a total of 8M? Or hell, a team option in year two for 3M, and a player option for year 3 for 5M. [I'm assuming for this hypothetical that the Spurs have the requisite cap space in 2013 and beyond]

The BAE(LLE) is an exception that has a maximum length of two years and and maximum total value of 4M.

The large increases you suggest are not possible as annual increases are capped at 4.5% in almost all free agent deals.

Everything you could ever need to know about salary cap exceptions:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

[CGD]

The BAE(LLE) is an exception that has a maximum length of two years and and maximum total value of 4M.

The large increases you suggest are not possible as annual increases are capped at 4.5% in almost all free agent deals.

Everything you could ever need to know about salary cap exceptions:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

Sweet thanks! So for Lorbek it's really about earning potential 2 years from now, versus what he can get if he plays his prime out in Europe. Bigs have been translating well in the nba, so it maybe worth it to him to be an ufa After two years in order to earn more. To compare, What would a top player in Europe fetch these days and for how many years?

[Mel_13]

Sham has updated his salary pages. Reflects the change to Green's QO discussed above:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp

[pad300]

As I understand the trade/salary cap rules:

1) It is not legal to trade establishing a future position such that a team will not draft in the 1st round 2 years in a row. (this is the essence of the Ted Stepien rule)

2) You can't trade back a player you just traded: eg. Team A can't trade player X (salarly $2 M) to team B for a TE, and then have Team B trade back player X and player y (salary $3 M) for player Z (Salary $6.3 M < 1.25*(2+3 M) + $0.1M)
(in other words, this is not allowed as it is effectively trading Player Y (salary $3M) for Player Z (salary $6.3 M), in violation of the 125% salary cap rule on trading.)

Ok, now to play games. Can you get away with a scenario like the following?

SAS trades to team CLE, a 2013 1st for team CLE's 2012 1st, #4 (This is legal, as SAS will not be in a position not to pick in both 2012 and 2013. Just trading SAS's 1st would be illegal, as it would break 1 above, having already traded the 2012 pick to GSW).

SAS drafts player X at #4 in 2012, and signs them.

SAS trades Player X ($3,105,500 #4 rookie scale) + Bonner ($3,630,000) + Neal ($854,389) to CLE, for Anderson Varejao ($8,368,182) (this is within the 125% rule for trading)

Note that SAS would draft player X at CLE's direction.

Net this is SAS 2013 1st, Bonner and Neal for Varejao.

By trading before and after the draft, SAS has effect a) violated the Stepien rule by trading out the 1st round in consecutive years, and b) traded Bonner + Neal + 2013 1st for Varejao, which would be a violation of the 125% rule.

Bruno, as the local Salary Cap guru, is this a legal stunt you can pull to get around the CBA?

[Bruno]

Thanks, Bruno. I agree that common sense would dictate that it should be pro-rated, but contract law frequently has nothing to do with common sense. :)

It's confirmed that they have followed the common sense.
https://twitter.com/SeanDeveney/status/210888389187207168


NBA confirms that ‪#Spurs‬ G D Green, a RFA this summer, DID meet ‘starter criteria’ by starting 38 gms. CBA says 41, but will be prorated.

[Bruno]

As I understand the trade/salary cap rules:

1) It is not legal to trade establishing a future position such that a team will not draft in the 1st round 2 years in a row. (this is the essence of the Ted Stepien rule)

2) You can't trade back a player you just traded: eg. Team A can't trade player X (salarly $2 M) to team B for a TE, and then have Team B trade back player X and player y (salary $3 M) for player Z (Salary $6.3 M < 1.25*(2+3 M) + $0.1M)
(in other words, this is not allowed as it is effectively trading Player Y (salary $3M) for Player Z (salary $6.3 M), in violation of the 125% salary cap rule on trading.)

Ok, now to play games. Can you get away with a scenario like the following?

SAS trades to team CLE, a 2013 1st for team CLE's 2012 1st, #4 (This is legal, as SAS will not be in a position not to pick in both 2012 and 2013. Just trading SAS's 1st would be illegal, as it would break 1 above, having already traded the 2012 pick to GSW).

SAS drafts player X at #4 in 2012, and signs them.

SAS trades Player X ($3,105,500 #4 rookie scale) + Bonner ($3,630,000) + Neal ($854,389) to CLE, for Anderson Varejao ($8,368,182) (this is within the 125% rule for trading)

Note that SAS would draft player X at CLE's direction.

Net this is SAS 2013 1st, Bonner and Neal for Varejao.

By trading before and after the draft, SAS has effect a) violated the Stepien rule by trading out the 1st round in consecutive years, and b) traded Bonner + Neal + 2013 1st for Varejao, which would be a violation of the 125% rule.

Bruno, as the local Salary Cap guru, is this a legal stunt you can pull to get around the CBA?

Wow, that's awfully complicated.

Even if your scenario respected every CBA rules, it still wouldn't work. There is a rule in the CBA saying that trades should respect the spirit of the CBA and your trade didn't. If your remember well, the league nixed a first Kidd to Mavs trade because it included Stackhouse who said that he would be back to Mavs after 30 days. Your scenario is against the spirit of the CBA in many ways.

Some other details:
- The Ted Stepien rule says team can't trade future consecutive first round picks. Spurs can very well trade their 2013 first round pick on draft day or in July because the 2012 pick will then be a past pick.
- If you sign a rookie, you had to wait 30 days before trading him. You cna't do some sort of S&T with a rookie.

Saying that, if you want to do your trade, it's relatively easy to do.
Trade rules have changed and have given more flexibility for teams below the tax: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q81
These trades would work under the CBA in July:
- Bonner + Joseph + Neal + 2013 first for Varejao.
- Bonner + Joseph + Byars + 2013 first for Varejao.

[tesseractive]

Saying that, if you want to do your trade, it's relatively easy to do.
Trade rules have changed and have given more flexibility for teams below the tax: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q81
These trades would work under the CBA in July:
- Bonner + Joseph + Neal + 2013 first for Varejao.
- Bonner + Joseph + Byars + 2013 first for Varejao.

Would Cleveland really have any interest in trading Varejao for a low 2013 pick and a bunch of crap?

[Bruno]

Would Cleveland really have any interest in trading Varejao for a low 2013 pick and a bunch of crap?

Yeah, I doubt Cleveland would do that kind of trades.

[Bruno]

Green was a second round pick of the 2009 draft. His qualifying offer is $3,342,175. It's fully guaranteed like all the QO in the new CBA.


Correction: Green QO will be $2,695,391.
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/05/qualifying-offers-and-the-starter-criteria.html

[CGD]

So James Anderson's contract...

I know the guy will become a UFA on July 1st. Is it possible however, for the Spurs to use him in a draft day trade 3 days earlier on June 28th, with a team looking to save a little bit of cap space in subsequent years? Or did the ability to do that expire when the team failed to pick up his option?

[lurker23]

So James Anderson's contract...

I know the guy will become a UFA on July 1st. Is it possible however, for the Spurs to use him in a draft day trade 3 days earlier on June 28th, with a team looking to save a little bit of cap space in subsequent years? Or did the ability to do that expire when the team failed to pick up his option?

The last chance the Spurs had to trade James Anderson was the trade deadline during the season. Beyond that, teams can't trade players who aren't under contract for next year, even if their season is over.

[Bruno]

Regarding next year, I can see Spurs being fine with spending a little luxury tax. They had a great year, the redistribution system has increased and they have saved a lot of money with the Jack trade.

The true number to look at is the "apron" number. Once a team use the LLE and/or more than the taxpayer MLE ($3.09M with 3 years contracts), there is a hard cap, the "apron" that is $4M above the luxury tax. Spurs will be $25.3M below the apron with 9 players under contract if Mills opt out. If Mills stay, they will be $24.4M below the apron with 10 players under contract. This space below the apron will be needed to re-sign Duncan, re-sign Green, sign players with the MLE, LLE or min contracts. Some trades could also be made because Spurs have some financial flexibility at the end of their roster. All in all, if Duncan new contract start above $12M per year, it could very well create an additional limitation at what Spurs will do this summer.

[Spurs4#5]

A question...couldnt the spurs restructure both jax and manu's contract for x number of years to cut down salary for this upcoming season? If so manu's and jax contracts total around 24-25 million. We could negotiate to clear up 5-7 million of this upcoming season to sign a more sought after talent. If this is way off please let me know

[yavozerb]

I have never heard of NBA contracts being re-structured...

[Bruno]

NBA contracts can be re-negotiated but, unlike the NFL, it's very limited. One of the limitation is that this re-negotiation can only be an increase in salary. The idea of re-negotiating contracts to clear cap space doesn't work.

In the recent years, I remember only 3 players who have renegotiated their contract: Perkins, Blatche and Nick Collison. And the Collison extension isn't even valid with the new CBA.

[Spurs4#5]

I get that...but I thought I read somewhere in the new cba that on contracts 4 years or greater they can be renegotiated for more money....so wouldn't u be able to renegotiate these contracts for example...manu makes 14 million...extend his contract to 3 years 27 million and now he's making 9 million a year and clears up five million this year and at the same time locking him up for another two years. Same thing with jax...he makes 10 million so extend his contract two more years at a total of 21 million and now he makes 7 million a year and clears up 3 million in cap space this year while locking him up for another two years.

[Seventyniner]

I think the point is that no individual yearly salary can go down in a renegotiation. Just giving them more money isn't enough.

[Bruno]

^Yep.

There were a rumor saying that contracts could be restructured but it was false.

The only re-negotiation you can do with a one year $12M contract is an one year contract with a salary higher than $12M. In addition, teams can do that only if they are below the cap.

[Spurs4#5]

^Yep.

There were a rumor saying that contracts could be restructured but it was false.

The only re-negotiation you can do with a one year $12M contract is an one year contract with a salary higher than $12M. In addition, teams can do that only if they are below the cap.
ok now I get it

[CGD]

Do we know when the cap for next year is going to be determined? Is it still expect to be at $58M?

Also what combination of Bonner amnesty + TD salary would generate enough cap space to sign Boris assuming the full MLE goes to Lorbek?

[elemento]

You can't use cap space and the exception.

If you're assuming the full MLE to Lorbek after we re-sign TD, the only money available to sign Boris would be the bi-annual (4m/2y).

In order to sign Lorbek and Diaw, SA would have to create enough cap space to sign both and SA wouldn't be able to use the MLE.

[CGD]

You can't use cap space and the exception.

If you're assuming the full MLE to Lorbek after we re-sign TD, the only money available to sign Boris would be the bi-annual (4m/2y).

In order to sign Lorbek and Diaw, SA would have to create enough cap space to sign both and SA wouldn't be able to use the MLE.

So a team MUST be at or over the cap in order to use the MLE/Bi-annual exceptions in the same season; that is, a team can't reach the cap threshold and then use the MLE all in the same summer? So really it doesn't matter how much TD gets next year, or whether Bonner is amnestied because we wouldn't be able to generate enough cap space to sign Boris, Lorbek, and De Colo anyway.

Then if the Spurs are really about bringing De Colo and Lorbek over, it seems to me that the writing is on the wall for Boris. Also short of a trade, it almost makes it certain the Bonner and Blair will be in the bigman rotation too. :depressed