Appreciating Kobe

[ChrisRichards]

For the longest time, I hated on Kobe Bryant. I denied it when I was called out on it, but deep down I would always try to put down whatever he did. Calling him selfish, saying "he's never going to be as good as Jordan", saying he can't win without Shaq back in the day.

And LeBron came along and I was his biggest fan (still am) and hating on Kobe was even more of a priority to ensure that LeBron seemed that much better. Using advanced statistics etc.. to try to backup the LeBron > Kobe argument.

During this recent stretch of Kobe's great performances I see the same thing on this forum. The same thing I was doing back in the day, trying to down play his great performances, trying to compare him to Jordan so he seems inferior in comparison.

Now older and wiser, I think I just want to remind everyone who enjoy's basketball played right, played with a competitive attitude, played with fundamentals, quit the hating and just enjoy one of the greats while he's still around.

Appreciate this guy's game. Whatever you want to say about his personal life, how he tries to mimic Jordan etc.., whatever. This guys plays with passion, love of the game. You can tell with his fundamentals, his work ethic. These are all the things we normally love about a player, this is what we all loved about Jordan.

If you spend all this time hating on the guy, you will miss out some beautiful basketball played. Enjoy it while it lasts because this dude will be gone soon.

Say what you want about him. Sure he's not or never will be the GOAT. Thats fine. But just sit back and enjoy for what the guy is. An all time TOP 10 player. As Somebody who didn't have the physical tools to be the a TOP 10 player but became one with his love and work ethic for the game, respect his game. Sit back and enjoy kids, you might look back one day and regret that you didn't.

[DMC]

http://fwww.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/tumblr_lkwuylf5rF1qayctbo1_500.jpg

[DeadlyDynasty]

Chris Richards, you're alright in my book.

[ElNono]

There's nothing wrong with hating snitches, IMO

[Banzai]

Nice thoughts..you are being serious right?

[Spur_Fanatic]

http://renwl.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/kobe.jpg

Help yourself, Chris. You know you want it.

[ChrisRichards]

I'm dead serious about this too. I came to realize in a few years time, I have no other player to hate to. Kevin Durant, Rose, Melo, Dwight, CP3, Griffin etc none of them has the shares the same quality as Kobe, they are far too nice. I know people look at his FGA and call him a chucker (I still think he's the biggest chucker in todays game) but what seperates Kobe from the rest is his intense work ethic and undying desire to prove people wrong, and for someone who pretty much has achieved everything in the league, at season 16, it amazes me how he plays with a chip on his shoulder . Hard not to respect a guy like this when most players of the newer generation has this sense of entitlement.


I want to criticize him for being a ballhog but I'm tired of this schtick. I think its easier to appreciate him when you think of him as the a cold blooded gunner.

[DMC]

I'm dead serious about this too. I came to realize in a few years time, I have no other player to hate to. Kevin Durant, Rose, Melo, Dwight, CP3, Griffin etc none of them has the shares the same quality as Kobe, they are far too nice. I know people look at his FGA and call him a chucker (I still think he's the biggest chucker in todays game) but what seperates Kobe from the rest is his intense work ethic and undying desire to prove people wrong, and for someone who pretty much has achieved everything in the league, at season 16, it amazes me how he plays with a chip on his shoulder . Hard not to respect a guy like this when most players of the newer generation has this sense of entitlement.


I want to criticize him for being a ballhog but I'm tired of this schtick. I think its easier to appreciate him when you think of him as the a cold blooded gunner.
You're flat out wrong. His work ethic and undying will isn't to prove people wrong. If it were, he would have 18 assists a game instead of 35 FGA. Everyone knows he's a chucker. Chucking more doesn't prove those people wrong.

Hell, by your logic, every showboating thug in the league is out to prove people wrong.

If he wants to disprove those who say his chucking is a cancer to the team, he's had many years to do so, and in those years where he didn't have other all stars to buoy the team, his chucking was notoriously suspect, as was his alternative method of just quitting and refusing to shoot.

The guy has been coddled like few people in the history of sports, and he makes 30m a year in salary. I know people who make 70K who work harder than him, and who's work ethic doesn't include shitting on the rest of the team for their own glory.

[Juggity]

I'm dead serious about this too. I came to realize in a few years time, I have no other player to hate to. Kevin Durant, Rose, Melo, Dwight, CP3, Griffin etc none of them has the shares the same quality as Kobe, they are far too nice. I know people look at his FGA and call him a chucker (I still think he's the biggest chucker in todays game) but what seperates Kobe from the rest is his intense work ethic and undying desire to prove people wrong, and for someone who pretty much has achieved everything in the league, at season 16, it amazes me how he plays with a chip on his shoulder . Hard not to respect a guy like this when most players of the newer generation has this sense of entitlement.

He plays with a chip on his shoulder because he's frustrated that he'll never be ranked among the top 10 greatest players. Despite playing 16 years in the league for what is unarguably the most privileged franchise in the NBA, he still, unbelievably, does not understand the value of team basketball. The pieces to another championship are staring him in the face. He has two all star 7 footers to feed, and yet he fails to feed them. The recent championships the Lakers have won were won in spite of Kobe. Having won his rings, Kobe's now content to throw his team under the bus to do as much individual stat padding as he can before his body falls apart from all the 40+ minute games he plays.

[Killakobe81]

You're flat out wrong. His work ethic and undying will isn't to prove people wrong. If it were, he would have 18 assists a game instead of 35 FGA. Everyone knows he's a chucker. Chucking more doesn't prove those people wrong.

Hell, by your logic, every showboating thug in the league is out to prove people wrong.

If he wants to disprove those who say his chucking is a cancer to the team, he's had many years to do so, and in those years where he didn't have other all stars to buoy the team, his chucking was notoriously suspect, as was his alternative method of just quitting and refusing to shoot.

The guy has been coddled like few people in the history of sports, and he makes 30m a year in salary. I know people who make 70K who work harder than him, and who's work ethic doesn't include shitting on the rest of the team for their own glory.

:lmao

[DMC]

:lmao
It's all true, and it's nothing that hasn't been said here a dozen times a day before.

[Killakobe81]

It's all true, and it's nothing that hasn't been said here a dozen times a day before.

Again, I don't know what you think the playoffs will prove. Right now, unless it improves PG and SF this a 2nd round playoff team.

With Blake out we have a too old and too young rotation at PG ...and at his best Blake should be a backup and Morris and Fisher would only get "spot" minutes. Barnes is solid but should be a backup ...Walton and Artest best days are behind them ...yet they make more money than Blake, Barnes, ebanks, Morris and McRoberts combined.

We have the best SG (for now Kobe reclaims over Wade)
A top 3 center and a top 5 PF ...but more questions than answers everywhere else. I like Mcroberts and Morris has promise ...but no matter how much Kobe shoot sor passes this is NOT a title team.

Oh and LOL at resting your superstar or Kobe saying should pass more like Manu ...that worked out REAL well for the spurs last playoffs. Bottom line you need to be good enough to beat the team you are facing and right now we aint good enough to beat a real good team in the playoffs.

[DMC]

Again, I don't know what you think the playoffs will prove. Right now, unless it improves PG and SF this a 2nd round playoff team.

With Blake out we have a too old and too young rotation at PG ...and at his best Blake should be a backup and Morris and Fisher would only get "spot" minutes. Barnes is solid but should be a backup ...Walton and Artest best days are behind them ...yet they make more money than Blake, Barnes, ebanks, Morris and McRoberts combined.

We have the best SG (for now Kobe reclaims over Wade)
A top 3 center and a top 5 PF ...but more questions than answers everywhere else. I like Mcroberts and Morris has promise ...but no matter how much Kobe shoot sor passes this is NOT a title team.

Oh and LOL at resting your superstar or Kobe saying should pass more like Manu ...that worked out REAL well for the spurs last playoffs. Bottom line you need to be good enough to beat the team you are facing and right now we aint good enough to beat a real good team in the playoffs.

I never mentioned Manu.

You act like Kobe doesn't have two 7 footers in the paint.

You can :downspin: that shit all you like, there's no solid basketball logic behind throwing up 28' prayers when you are in double coverage and you have 2 seven footers on the court with you. Even the commentators were saying how Pau didn't touch the ball for 8 minutes in the 4th, and how that is likely why he gets out of sync. Just watching Kobe play ball while you run around setting picks gets old on players. It's no longer a team game for them, they will stop playing on offense and probably on defense as well.

[mavs>spurs]

i appreciate him for what he is, a fun player to watch and a solid 10-15 player of all time. nothing more, nothing less.

[DPG21920]

i appreciate him for what he is, a fun player to watch and a solid 10-15 player of all time. Nothing more, nothing less.

+1

[Killakobe81]

I never mentioned Manu.

You act like Kobe doesn't have two 7 footers in the paint.

You can :downspin: that shit all you like, there's no solid basketball logic behind throwing up 28' prayers when you are in double coverage and you have 2 seven footers on the court with you. Even the commentators were saying how Pau didn't touch the ball for 8 minutes in the 4th, and how that is likely why he gets out of sync. Just watching Kobe play ball while you run around setting picks gets old on players. It's no longer a team game for them, they will stop playing on offense and probably on defense as well.

That wasnt directed at you (manu) just the comments at Kobe in general, just used your post to reply. I am not spinning anything. I just dont see a title contender here. DO I want Kobe to dial it back a bit? Yes. But I also saw bynum huffin and puffin' and Pau refusin to go hard and when he did get stuffed by Brian freaking Cook.

At first I was in the camp of trading Bynum ... then I kind softened but now Im kind of back to making that trade hopefully not giving up Pau ...but if we had to Id rather have our salary cap invested in Howard and Kobe rather than in Kobe, Pau and Bynum. Either way we aint winning a title but with Kobe's resurgence and Howard we could at least put a scare in some teams ...

[Killakobe81]

Oh and basket ball is about scoring and stopping the other team from scoring. Sure Post play and lay-ups are preferred over fade-away 18 footers. And I agree he needs to pass more to engage his team-mates. I agree with all of that. And i think he will he is on a scoring binge but he will not keep this up. I doubt he could even if he wanted to ...but 2 points is 2 points.

And I love spur fans are so "concerned" about Kobe's health, our team-chemistry and telling me we an be a contender when I can clearly see we are not ...yall drinking that same shit that had some of you thinking the spurs were legit last year ...

[ElNono]

He's a wannabe... Kobe would get a lot more respect if he didn't try so hard to be somebody else, tbh

[DPG21920]

What you fail to mention is every team has holes, Killa. Instead of constantly making excuses for the guy when it's clear he has more than enough support to make a legit title run, how about you acknowledge his shortcomings from within?

You can't change the fact that he has two of the top 8 big men in the league and that is the most important position in the game. He has quality bench players. It's asinine to think that he deserves or needs any more talent stacked up around him in order to win. Every team has holes and if you are truly that good, you shouldn't need the clear cut most stacked team in the league just to have a shot to win. It's ridiculous thinking.

[DMC]

That wasnt directed at you (manu) just the comments at Kobe in general, just used your post to reply. I am not spinning anything. I just dont see a title contender here. DO I want Kobe to dial it back a bit? Yes. But I also saw bynum huffin and puffin' and Pau refusin to go hard and when he did get stuffed by Brian freaking Cook.

At first I was in the camp of trading Bynum ... then I kind softened but now Im kind of back to making that trade hopefully not giving up Pau ...but if we had to Id rather have our salary cap invested in Howard and Kobe rather than in Kobe, Pau and Bynum. Either way we aint winning a title but with Kobe's resurgence and Howard we could at least put a scare in some teams ...
Bynum put in good work when he was called upon. Sure he was winded, big deal. He's running full length, not just to the arc and firing up a prayer.

Earlier in the season, Bynum was beasting, and yet Mike Brown basically didn't give a shit and went to "sav-a-job" mode. If Mike is serious about winning a ring, he would want to get Bynum and Pau involved, especially Pau, because the dude can shoot from damn near anywhere inside the arc, and hits his FTs. His footwork in the paint is incredible and he's one of the best catch and shoot players in the league. Kobe should be feeding these guys but keeping the threat active from outside. If he takes wide open looks, so be it.

It should be obvious, by what Houston was willing to give up for him, what Pau means to a team.

The Lakers have the pieces to win the West. I've said it since day one.

[GoodOdor]

He's a wannabe... Kobe would get a lot more respect if he didn't try so hard to be somebody else, tbh

He modeled his game after the best of all time, how is that a bad thing?

:depressed:depressedhe just took a fadeaway MJ used to do that!!11:depressed:depressed:depressed what a wanna-be:depressed:depressed:depressed

[Killakobe81]

What you fail to mention is every team has holes, Killa. Instead of constantly making excuses for the guy when it's clear he has more than enough support to make a legit title run, how about you acknowledge his shortcomings from within?

You can't change the fact that he has two of the top 8 big men in the league and that is the most important position in the game. He has quality bench players. It's asinine to think that he deserves or needs any more talent stacked up around him in order to win. Every team has holes and if you are truly that good, you shouldn't need the clear cut most stacked team in the league just to have a shot to win. It's ridiculous thinking.

And what you fail to see these holes will allow you to win regular season games, just like the Spurs did last year. But win a title? No. I dont settle for mediocrity I like this team from a effort and defensive standpoint. But talent wise (top to bottom) I would say: Heat, Bulls, OKC, Dallas, Nuggs, clips Blazers and Spurs are more talented than we are. Because we have Kobe and size we can beat some of those teams ... no doubt about it, But again this is not a title team. i like Brown but do you see him leading this team to beat 3 teams (lakers will probably have HCA for at least 1 round) better than his without HCA?

[DMC]

Oh and basket ball is about scoring and stopping the other team from scoring. Sure Post play and lay-ups are preferred over fade-away 18 footers. And I agree he needs to pass more to engage his team-mates. I agree with all of that. And i think he will he is on a scoring binge but he will not keep this up. I doubt he could even if he wanted to ...but 2 points is 2 points.

In a video game, sure, but in reality the team is comprised of other individuals who also have to be part of the solution. They train and they are professionals. In order to get where they need to be, each player has to fulfill a role, even the star, to form a cohesive squad. The star has to show trust in his teammates for that to happen.

You're ignoring 50 years of basketball axioms.


And I love spur fans are so "concerned" about Kobe's health, our team-chemistry and telling me we an be a contender when I can clearly see we are not ...yall drinking that same shit that had some of you thinking the spurs were legit last year ...
Well, you're on Spurstalk.com, who do you expect to hear from?

The Spurs have won mostly from overachieving role players who played around a solid, unselfish star.

If the Spurs had what the Lakers have, we would be talking about being stacked.

[DPG21920]

Ridiculous. Lakers have a top 3 SG and two top 10 bigs. End of story.

[GoodOdor]

What you fail to mention is every team has holes, Killa. Instead of constantly making excuses for the guy when it's clear he has more than enough support to make a legit title run, how about you acknowledge his shortcomings from within?

You can't change the fact that he has two of the top 8 big men in the league and that is the most important position in the game. He has quality bench players. It's asinine to think that he deserves or needs any more talent stacked up around him in order to win. Every team has holes and if you are truly that good, you shouldn't need the clear cut most stacked team in the league just to have a shot to win. It's ridiculous thinking.

lol, so we went from "lol lakers are a first round team this year" to "lakers are clear contenders if only played to the bigs:depressed:depressed"??

Come on bro. and lol at bynum suddenly being "top 8' big men in the league.

[Killakobe81]

Bynum put in good work when he was called upon. Sure he was winded, big deal. He's running full length, not just to the arc and firing up a prayer.

Earlier in the season, Bynum was beasting, and yet Mike Brown basically didn't give a shit and went to "sav-a-job" mode. If Mike is serious about winning a ring, he would want to get Bynum and Pau involved, especially Pau, because the dude can shoot from damn near anywhere inside the arc, and hits his FTs. His footwork in the paint is incredible and he's one of the best catch and shoot players in the league. Kobe should be feeding these guys but keeping the threat active from outside. If he takes wide open looks, so be it.

It should be obvious, by what Houston was willing to give up for him, what Pau means to a team.

The Lakers have the pieces to win the West. I've said it since day one.

Pau has been playing well. Glad to see his shot has returned. and I doubt this is on Brown, I think Kobe decided to go in to hero mode. If Kobe was smart he proved he has gas left, now he needs to showcase one or two of them for trades ...

This team as currently built is NOT good enough to win the West ...

[DPG21920]

LA is definitely a title contender as constructed. This isn't anything close to the damn Spurs of last year because LA isn't chucking 3's. They actually have 2 top 10 bigs (Spurs did not) and a top 3 SG (Spurs did not).

Spurs problem was talent. LA's problem is style of play and discipline. BIG DIFFERENCE.

[DMC]

He modeled his game after the best of all time, how is that a bad thing?

:depressed:depressedhe just took a fadeaway MJ used to do that!!11:depressed:depressed:depressed what a wanna-be:depressed:depressed:depressed
Imagine MJ with Bynum and Pau.

[DPG21920]

lol, so we went from "lol lakers are a first round team this year" to "lakers are clear contenders if only played to the bigs:depressed:depressed"??

Come on bro. and lol at bynum suddenly being "top 8' big men in the league.

Who said they are a first round team? Not me. Bynum is clearly a top 8 big man when healthy like he is right now.

[Killakobe81]

Ridiculous. Lakers have a top 3 SG and two top 10 bigs. End of story.

Top SG now tbh, injury has felled the other 2 contenders ... :toast

Oh and the Regulator has ended the story so let's pack up our shit and go home ...:lol

[DPG21920]

Pau has been playing well. Glad to see his shot has returned. and I doubt this is on Brown, I think Kobe decided to go in to hero mode. If Kobe was smart he proved he has gas left, now he needs to showcase one or two of them for trades ...

This team as currently built is NOT good enough to win the West ...

Such bullshit and if you actually believe that it's a huge indictment on Kobe. Are they the clear cut favorites any more? No. But that's only because they haven't stacked the deck well above anyone else. They are still legit contenders and are still more stacked than most teams at the positions of need.

[GoodOdor]

Who said they are a first round team? Not me. Bynum is clearly a top 8 big man when healthy like he is right now.

You usually have good takes so I'll take your word that you didn't consider the lakers a first/second round team at most.

and lol at "if bynum is healthy". We all know how this ends up. besides, was he not healthy last year in the playoffs?

Again, how is this team different from the last year team?

[DMC]

Pau has been playing well. Glad to see his shot has returned. and I doubt this is on Brown, I think Kobe decided to go in to hero mode. If Kobe was smart he proved he has gas left, now he needs to showcase one or two of them for trades ...

This team as currently built is NOT good enough to win the West ...
It's always on the coach. To think otherwise is putting the cart before the horse.

The team is built good enough to win the West. a dozen people here could write the winning formula: Feed the bigs, play inside out, run the pick and roll for Pau and Bynum. Get the 2nd unit going in the same manner.

You get Bynum going on the offensive end, he defends with energy. Pau is a fundamental player, he will play the same either way but he's still human and needs to be part of it.

[DPG21920]

The team last year underachieved, that doesn't mean they don't have the requisite talent to win the West and it's unbelievable that Laker fans would argue otherwise given the landscape of the West and the league in general.

Bynum wasn't anywhere near the level of healthy he is now and he's even taken another step forward with his dedication to the glass.

[GoodOdor]

The team last year underachieved, that doesn't mean they don't have the requisite talent to win the West and it's unbelievable that Laker fans would argue otherwise given the landscape of the West and the league in general.

Bynum wasn't anywhere near the level of healthy he is now and he's even taken another step forward with his dedication to the glass.

Oh, so now Bynum has different levels of "healthy"....got it.

So just so we're clear, you think that a team that got swept in the second round last year is suddenly a contender without making any serious trades+another year of wear and tear to its already old star players and starting PG?

[DPG21920]

Oh, so now Bynum has different levels of "healthy"....got it.

So just so we're clear, you think that a team that got swept in the second round last year is suddenly a contender without making any serious trades+another year of wear and tear to its already old star players and starting PG?

Yes. Again, look at who they are competing against. There is absolutely no reason to think that with the talent LA has that they aren't a legit threat to win the West.

[DMC]

You usually have good takes so I'll take your word that you didn't consider the lakers a first/second round team at most.

and lol at "if bynum is healthy". We all know how this ends up. besides, was he not healthy last year in the playoffs?

Again, how is this team different from the last year team?

The team isn't that different. Last year's team ran into a bad mofo and got steamrolled. They were also dealing with some internal issues with Pau, Shannon Brown and a few others, and Phil was retiring so it's hard to say what effort he put into it.

Regardless, they had the pieces to get it done. I expected them to be in the WCF last year.

[DMC]

Oh, so now Bynum has different levels of "healthy"....got it.

So just so we're clear, you think that a team that got swept in the second round last year is suddenly a contender without making any serious trades+another year of wear and tear to its already old star players and starting PG?
No one but the Mavs sweep the Lakers last year. That Mavs team was disassembled for the most part.

The Spurs were playing 95% of their potential during the regular season, the Lakers were playing about 70% of theirs. Teams playing 95% that lose in the 1st round (albeit with an injured Manu) aren't built to win it all. Teams playing <70% that lose in the 2nd round? Not the same.

[GoodOdor]

Yes. Again, look at who they are competing against. There is absolutely no reason to think that with the talent LA has that they aren't a legit threat to win the West.

Legit threat to win the west? I agree with that.

Then again, it's not saying much because there's about 4-5 teams that are a "legit threat" to win the west.

[DMC]

Legit threat to win the west? I agree with that.

Then again, it's not saying much because there's about 4-5 teams that are a "legit threat" to win the west.

No. There's OKC, LA and maybe Dallas. No one else. The Clippers aren't getting that far.

[Killakobe81]

LA is definitely a title contender as constructed. This isn't anything close to the damn Spurs of last year because LA isn't chucking 3's. They actually have 2 top 10 bigs (Spurs did not) and a top 3 SG (Spurs did not).

Spurs problem was talent. LA's problem is style of play and discipline. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Yes we are chucking we just bricking em ...Kobe included. So i watch 90 Laker games a year but you guys know we are a title contender ...better than I do? :lol

Look maybe we develop in to one. I hope we do, but I doubt it. Not many teams featuring a PG as bad as Fisher is and as young As morris have won titles. Last team I can think of is 2000 Lakers but they had a prime Shaq and young Kobe. the had PJ as coach and horry on the bench. Heck when Spurs won in 99 they had 2 7 footers better than ours plus Avery is >better than Dfish is at this point. Plus you had SJax who is >> Artest or Barnes (who i still like) ...Sure other teams have holes ... but again our bigs though good are not two HOFers.

Also, last night it made SOME sense for Kobe to shoot ... Our bigs were gassed, we gave up 17 offensive boards ... we were flat he tried to spark us. I know many on here don't like his style but he was trying to win not stat pad ...some of you are just dense. It's easy to hate so you so ..plus Kobe threatens Duncan so I get it.

[DMC]

Yes we are chucking we just bricking em ...Kobe included. So i watch 90 Laker games a year but you guys know we are a title contender ...better than I do? :lol

Look maybe we develop in to one. I hope we do, but I doubt it. Not many teams featuring a PG as bad as Fisher is and as young As morris have won titles. Last team I can think of is 2000 Lakers but they had a prime Shaq and young Kobe. the had PJ as coach and horry on the bench. Heck when Spurs won in 99 they had 2 7 footers better than ours plus Avery is >better than Dfish is at this point. Plus you had SJax who is >> Artest or Barnes (who i still like) ...Sure other teams have holes ... but again our bigs though good are not two HOFers.

Also, last night it made sense for Kobe to shoot ... Our bigs were gassed we gave up 17 offensive boards ... we were flt he tried to spark us. I know many on here don't like his style but he was trying to win not stat pad ...some of you are just dense. It's easy to hate so you so ..plus Kobe threatens Duncan so I get it.

It doesn't matter how many games you watch. We know you have the right pieces to win. You seem like you just don't want to have to compete for it, like it should be a given or it's out of the question.

If you don't get far, it's likely going to be because of Kobe (barring injuries).

Oh, and lol Fisher has won 5 titles at PG.

[DPG21920]

:lmao Nothing Kobe does hurts Duncan. Sorry to break that news to you. That is just Kobe fan retort. Just like how they try and downplay the talent he has around him and prop up Lebron's Cavs like they had Prime Jordan and Shaq.

[DPG21920]

It doesn't matter how many games you watch. We know you have the right pieces to win. You seem like you just don't want to have to compete for it, like it should be a given or it's out of the question.

If you don't get far, it's likely going to be because of Kobe (barring injuries).

Oh, and lol Fisher has won 5 titles at PG.

Bingo. That is Kobe fan mentality. If it's not a clear cut thing = not good enough talent around Kobe.

[Killakobe81]

It doesn't matter how many games you watch. We know you have the right pieces to win. You seem like you just don't want to have to compete for it, like it should be a given or it's out of the question.

If you don't get far, it's likely going to be because of Kobe (barring injuries).

Oh, and lol Fisher has won 5 titles at PG.

You guys are silly. So PJ had no reason to to jab his finger in Pau's chest? We had no reason to trade Pau for CP3? Mitch saw we had a title ready team but just was gonna blow that up correct?

You guys are so basketball smart. SO it makes sense to build up the Lakers so you can blame Kobe? Pot meet kettle DPG and DMC ... :lmao :wakeup

[DPG21920]

No. No one is saying the Lakers are the clear cut favorites and that it would be a travesty if they didn't win. We are saying he has more than enough talent to compete legitimately for a title.

Just because you have a good team doesn't mean you shouldn't look to improve it so your point about them trying to trade doesn't make any sense :lol

[DeadlyDynasty]

If anybody thinks this Lakers team can beat the Heat (w/o injuries) 4 times out of 7 games, then they need to contemplate suicide

[DPG21920]

If anybody thinks this Lakers team can beat the Heat (w/o injuries) 4 times out of 7 games, then they need to contemplate suicide

So in your opinion LA is not a contender? They have 0 shot at getting to the finals? Because if you can get to the finals you are a contender.

[DeadlyDynasty]

So in your opinion LA is not a contender? They have 0 shot at getting to the finals? Because if you can get to the finals you are a contender.
Good job making this a black and white issue:tu

Winning the Western Conference this year will not be the accomplishment it was in years past. It's a garbage conference looking to send a sacrificial lamb to the Heat.

They are a WC contender, not a Championship-winning contender.

[DPG21920]

SMH at that mindset. The West still has good teams and the East has sucked compared to the West for years, but they were still considered contenders. You can spin it all you want; no one gave the Mavs a real shot against MIA either. Fact is, if you can get to the finals you are a contender, no matter how "weak" your conference is.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Do you think the Lakers can beat the Heat?


No.

kthx

[DPG21920]

Yes, I do. Do I think they are favorites? No. Do I think they can? More than I thought the Mavs could.

K, thx.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Yes, I do. Do I think they are favorites? No. Do I think they can? More than I thought the Mavs could.

K, thx.

I never fancied you a liar, tbh

[DPG21920]

Also, :lol Even if you don't think they can beat the Heat that isn't the point Laker fan is trying to make. They are arguing that they don't have the talent to really compete at all and that the reason Kobe is chucking is because it's their system and he has to.

[DPG21920]

I never fancied you a liar, tbh

I'm not lying. I think LA, compared to what I (and likely most people) thought about the Mavs chances were, is better.

[DPG21920]

Arguing that no teams are contenders unless they can clearly beat the Heat is quite silly IMVHO.

[ElNono]

He modeled his game after the best of all time, how is that a bad thing?

He's the cheap knockoff... he certainly didn't model losing finals trying to be the hero from the GOAT...

Now he's been reduced to chasing the GOAT numbers... just sad state of affairs, really. He's definitely talented and a great athlete... you have to wonder what would've been of him if he didn't try as hard to look like somebody else.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I'm not lying. I think LA, compared to what I (and likely most people) thought about the Mavs chances were, is better.

The Heat have improved their roster. The Lakers didn't. The Lakers are terribly unathletic (outside of Kobe) at PG, SG, and SF. We also signed a bunch of lame white guys.

The Heat would sweep...maybe, just maybe the Lakers take one game.

[DMC]

You guys are silly. So PJ had no reason to to jab his finger in Pau's chest? We had no reason to trade Pau for CP3? Mitch saw we had a title ready team but just was gonna blow that up correct?

You guys are so basketball smart. SO it makes sense to build up the Lakers so you can blame Kobe? Pot meet kettle DPG and DMC ... :lmao :wakeup
The Lakers made trades after they won titles.

The Spurs fans are begging to get Tiago minutes, and you guys ignore Bynum and Pau. We would kill kittens for either of them.

[ElNono]

Lakers ain't making the Finals, so the only Heat-Lakers you're gonna see is regular season, tbh

[DPG21920]

The Heat have improved their roster. The Lakers didn't. The Lakers are terribly unathletic (outside of Kobe) at PG, SG, and SF. We also signed a bunch of lame white guys.

The Heat would sweep...maybe, just maybe the Lakers take one game.

That's not the point and I don't think that is true either because if LA is in the finals, that means the figured out how to play with their team to maximize all their talent.

[DeadlyDynasty]

That's not the point and I don't think that is true either because if LA is in the finals, that means the figured out how to play with their team to maximize all their talent.

Kobe
Bynum
sometimes Pau (when he's not suffering uterine cramps)


What other talent are you referring to?

[DMC]

If anybody thinks this Lakers team can beat the Heat (w/o injuries) 4 times out of 7 games, then they need to contemplate suicide
This Lakers team won't be in the playoffs. This Lakers team isn't good enough. They have to find some cohesion. But these players can make a team that can compete, they just have to do it.

[DMC]

Kobe
Bynum
sometimes Pau (when he's not suffering uterine cramps)


What other talent are you referring to?
The Spurs won rings with Duncan, Manu and Parker with some good role players.

I would take a solid big over a solid PG.

[DPG21920]

Kobe
Bynum
sometimes Pau (when he's not suffering uterine cramps)


What other talent are you referring to?

When you talk about talent on teams, the most important is the top 3. Kobe/Pau/Bynum compares more than favorably with any other top 3 and I would argue since their big 3 comes with 2 top 10 players at the most important position(s) in the game, they have enough talent.

[DeadlyDynasty]

The Spurs won rings with Duncan, Manu and Parker with some good role players.

I would take a solid big over a solid PG.

Look at the teams they beat. 2003 Lakers and 2005 Pistons (who had no superstars) were the only good teams they beat in those stretches. It was a weak era in the NBA. Just like 2012 WC is an embarrassment

[DeadlyDynasty]

When you talk about talent on teams, the most important is the top 3. Kobe/Pau/Bynum compares more than favorably with any other top 3 and I would argue since their big 3 comes with 2 top 10 players at the most important position(s) in the game, they have enough talent.

Lame, and subjective.

[DPG21920]

:lol Bron/Bosh/Wade, who else do they have?

[DeadlyDynasty]

:lol Bron/Bosh/Wade, who else do they have?

Their roster>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lakers Roster

Are you really debating this?

[DPG21920]

Lame and subjective. Name me all this talent they have beyond the Big 3 if that is so relevant to you.

[DPG21920]

:lol Also, are you really arguing that unless you can clearly beat the Heat that you aren't a contender? Are you really arguing that if you are a team that can win the West you shouldn't be considered a contender?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Lame and subjective. Name me all this talent they have beyond the Big 3 if that is so relevant to you.


They have more talent than the Lakers

Chalmers>>>>Fisher
James>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Barnes
Kobe=Wade
Bosh=Pau
Anthony<<<<<Bynum

Their bench>>>>Lakers Bench

Unless you really wanna make a case for:

Troy Murphy
Josh McRoberts
Steve Blake
Metta
Ebanks
Walton
Some other dudes I've never heard of.

The Heat are more talented than the Lakers, sorry to break it to you:lol

[DeadlyDynasty]

:lol Also, are you really arguing that unless you can clearly beat the Heat that you aren't a contender? Are you really arguing that if you are a team that can win the West you shouldn't be considered a contender?

Exactly...that's like people condsidering the New Jersey Nets were title contenders those 2 years when it was quite obvious that both those series were over before they started.:lol

I guess Spurfan thinks the 2007 Cavs were championship material too:lol

[DPG21920]

If you get to the finals, you are a contender. Contender by nature means you have a shot to win a title. Doesn't mean you are a favorite or even have a great shot; just a shot. If you win the West (which you said LA can do as currently constructed and I agree), you are a contender. Arguing otherwise makes you a liar and does exactly what typical Kobe fanbois do; makes excuses for him.

[DPG21920]

They have more talent than the Lakers

Chalmers>>>>Fisher
James>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Barnes
Kobe=Wade
Bosh=Pau
Anthony<<<<<Bynum

Their bench>>>>Lakers Bench

Unless you really wanna make a case for:

Troy Murphy
Josh McRoberts
Steve Blake
Metta
Ebanks
Walton
Some other dudes I've never heard of.

The Heat are more talented than the Lakers, sorry to break it to you:lol

So basically what you are saying is the Heat really aren't that talented beyond the big 3. Cool, I agree.

[Killakobe81]

Well I hope DPG in his infinite wisdom, is correct. But I prefer to trust the wisdom of the GM with 2 championship rings. He not only tries to trade for CP3 but when that fails gifts Odom to the defending champs ...why do you think Kobe was mad? That is a blatant concession that this team isnt good enough. And thoug DD is right, the Heat appear head and shoulders above every team save the Bulls they still have holes. I just dont think the Lakers are even as good as DPG and DMC do ...

[DeadlyDynasty]

If you get to the finals, you are a contender. Contender by nature means you have a shot to win a title. Doesn't mean you are a favorite or even have a great shot; just a shot. If you win the West (which you said LA can do as currently constructed and I agree), you are a contender. Arguing otherwise makes you a liar and does exactly what typical Kobe fanbois do; makes excuses for him.

Even lamer, and still subjective.



smh

[lefty]

he's a wannabe... Kobe would get a lot more respect if he didn't try so hard to be somebody else, tbh

thread

[DPG21920]

Even lamer, and still subjective.



smh

:lol The only thing lame and subjective is your arrows argument.

[LkrFan]

LA is definitely a title contender as constructed. This isn't anything close to the damn Spurs of last year because LA isn't chucking 3's. They actually have 2 top 10 bigs (Spurs did not) and a top 3 SG (Spurs did not).

Spurs problem was talent. LA's problem is style of play and discipline. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Kobe leads the league (and all SGs) in scoring. You say Kobe is a top 3 SG. Name the two that are better. I'll wait. :downspin:

[DeadlyDynasty]

:lol The only thing lame and subjective is your arrows argument.

^Lame

[DPG21920]

Kobe leads the league (and all SGs) in scoring. You say Kobe is a top 3 SG. Name the two that are better. I'll wait. :downspin:

You do realize that even if Kobe is #1, he would be a top 3 SG correct :lol. I said that because I feel you can definitely argue Wade as being better and I would put Monta up there.

[DMC]

Look at the teams they beat. 2003 Lakers and 2005 Pistons (who had no superstars) were the only good teams they beat in those stretches. It was a weak era in the NBA. Just like 2012 WC is an embarrassment

Spurs beat the same team that beat the 4 HOF Lakers team.

Qualify rings all you like, it is what it is. They won.

[DMC]

This thread boils down to a team that's being crippled by it's star player, enabled by it's owner and it's cuckold coach, and defended by it's spoiled fans who, not accustomed to less than being highly favored to win, are setting up an excuse for Kobe induced failure, trying to pin it on the build of the team.

[LkrFan]

You do realize that even if Kobe is #1, he would be a top 3 SG correct :lol. I said that because I feel you can definitely argue Wade as being better and I would put Monta up there.

:downspin: that shit Deepy. :lol

Last year you might have an argument for Wade. Not this year. And i would argue that a healthy Curry is better than Ellis.

[DPG21920]

When I say top 3 it's not to knock Kobe. The point was to say that LA has basically 2 top 15 players and probably Bynum right now is top 20-25.

[DMC]

Ok so they have the best shooting guard in the league and two of the best bigs in the league.

That really kills DPG's argument.

[LkrFan]

When I say top 3 it's not to knock Kobe. The point was to say that LA has basically 2 top 15 players and probably Bynum right now is top 20-25.

Fair enough. Point taken.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Fair enough. Point taken.

Whoa whoa whoa...Don't give into him, bro. Stand your ground and call him a faggot.

C-mon now

[DPG21920]

ha

[Koolaid_Man]

You're flat out wrong. His work ethic and undying will isn't to prove people wrong. If it were, he would have 18 assists a game instead of 35 FGA. Everyone knows he's a chucker. Chucking more doesn't prove those people wrong.

Hell, by your logic, every showboating thug in the league is out to prove people wrong.

If he wants to disprove those who say his chucking is a cancer to the team, he's had many years to do so, and in those years where he didn't have other all stars to buoy the team, his chucking was notoriously suspect, as was his alternative method of just quitting and refusing to shoot.

The guy has been coddled like few people in the history of sports, and he makes 30m a year in salary. I know people who make 70K who work harder than him, and who's work ethic doesn't include shitting on the rest of the team for their own glory.


Isn't Kobe's style the American way....:lol ...stop being mad that he's left TOSB in the dust...he's not fucking Timmy

[Koolaid_Man]

:downspin: that shit Deepy. :lol

Last year you might have an argument for Wade. Not this year. And i would argue that a healthy Curry is better than Ellis.

Hey homie...you wasting precious time with Sour fan...oops Spur fan...they mad as hell about 5>4 and also that their guy is a complete shit bag that can't even fucking average 13 / 9 in the final yr of his undeserved contract...they're mad as hell Kobe has another 2-3 good yrs left to further separate himself from "THE MOST BORING BASKETBALL PLAYER THAT EVER LIVED!!!:lmao

[LkrFan]

Whoa whoa whoa...Don't give into him, bro. Stand your ground and call him a faggot.

C-mon now

:lol

[LkrFan]

I'm in shock this thread is made by non Laker fans. Props, tbh.

[LkrFan]

I'm in shock this thread was made by non Laker fans. Props, tbh.

[DMC]

Isn't Kobe's style the American way....:lol ...stop being mad that he's left TOSB in the dust...he's not fucking Timmy


You Want To Piss Off Mav Fan

ok here's how you can do it...put aside your petty grievances against me and let's call a truce of sorts...act like we're cool with each other and I will defend you against Mav fan and against DPG...this should really get them to squirming...you down with this plan? :lol

[lefty]

You're flat out wrong. His work ethic and undying will isn't to prove people wrong. If it were, he would have 18 assists a game instead of 35 FGA. Everyone knows he's a chucker. Chucking more doesn't prove those people wrong.

Hell, by your logic, every showboating thug in the league is out to prove people wrong.

If he wants to disprove those who say his chucking is a cancer to the team, he's had many years to do so, and in those years where he didn't have other all stars to buoy the team, his chucking was notoriously suspect, as was his alternative method of just quitting and refusing to shoot.

The guy has been coddled like few people in the history of sports, and he makes 30m a year in salary. I know people who make 70K who work harder than him, and who's work ethic doesn't include shitting on the rest of the team for their own glory.


He plays with a chip on his shoulder because he's frustrated that he'll never be ranked among the top 10 greatest players. Despite playing 16 years in the league for what is unarguably the most privileged franchise in the NBA, he still, unbelievably, does not understand the value of team basketball. The pieces to another championship are staring him in the face. He has two all star 7 footers to feed, and yet he fails to feed them. The recent championships the Lakers have won were won in spite of Kobe. Having won his rings, Kobe's now content to throw his team under the bus to do as much individual stat padding as he can before his body falls apart from all the 40+ minute games he plays.



The Goods

[Deuce Bigalow]

:lmao Nothing Kobe does hurts Duncan. Sorry to break that news to you. That is just Kobe fan retort. Just like how they try and downplay the talent he has around him and prop up Lebron's Cavs like they had Prime Jordan and Shaq.
Kobe already passed Duncan quite a bit of time ago.

[DPG21920]

Kobe already passed Duncan quite a bit of time ago.

No. Tim is a surefire top 10 player. Kobe is a fringe top 15.

[DeadlyDynasty]

:lol The only thing lame and subjective is your arrows argument.

:lolMad because I'm right.

The Lakers were good enough to get swept in the 2nd round last year. Since then their roster has gotten worse:

-Goodbye versatile 6MOY LO
-Artest, Barnes, Blake, Gasol, Fisher, Walton, (and Kobe to an extent) all get a year older and slower
-Pau is still butthurt about being tradebait in the OS.
-Downgrade in HC.
-Added slow white guys who so far are good for nothing but 6 fouls.

The Heat, meanwhile have added depth, Chalmers has improved immensely, Haslem is healthy, and they have a nice young rookie in Norris Cole who shows a lot of promise (and has actually closed a couple games for them).

Yet you think the Lakers are a championship contender, despite no upgrades anywhere and the core getting even older. I love your logic.:rollin

Here, let me explain to the novice ST poster what you're trying to do here. Last year you were all over Miami's nuts and said they would win the title--an opinion that cost you $500 iirc:lol

Now that the Lakers have become the Kobeshow (moreso than in years past), you're disingenuously saying that they have a chance just so you can throw Kobe under the bus when it doesn't happen. Sorry homie, you're just too transparent.:lol

Last year's roster>>>This year's roster. Last year's couldn't win a game in the 2nd round, so.....where is your case?

Dismissed.:smokin


Spurs beat the same team that beat the 4 HOF Lakers team.


Yeah, that's why I included the 2005 Pistons as one of the 2 teams...go back and read it.

[DPG21920]

That was a lot of work for a lot of dumb

[Fabbs]

respect his game. Sit back and enjoy kids, you might look back one day and regret that you didn't.
I've heard you can buy a butt hair of Kobes.
Apparantly it was removed from Kool Maidens lips in an ER room.

Do you appreciate Kobe enough to buy his butthair?

I get a finders fee so i would appreciate your buying it.

[DeadlyDynasty]

That was a lot of work for a lot of dumb

Cool throwaway response, guy. That's probably what I would do too if my argument was just torn apart:lol

[DPG21920]

Wow, I hope you're trolling. But then again I'd think you know better than try that on me :lol

[DeadlyDynasty]

Wow, I hope you're trolling. But then again I'd think you know better than try that on me :lol

Another generic throwaway line...but what else can you expect from a KoL fan:lol

[Killakobe81]

:lolMad because I'm right.

The Lakers were good enough to get swept in the 2nd round last year. Since then their roster has gotten worse:

-Goodbye versatile 6MOY LO
-Artest, Barnes, Blake, Gasol, Fisher, Walton, (and Kobe to an extent) all get a year older and slower
-Pau is still butthurt about being tradebait in the OS.
-Downgrade in HC.
-Added slow white guys who so far are good for nothing but 6 fouls.

The Heat, meanwhile have added depth, Chalmers has improved immensely, Haslem is healthy, and they have a nice young rookie in Norris Cole who shows a lot of promise (and has actually closed a couple games for them).

Yet you think the Lakers are a championship contender, despite no upgrades anywhere and the core getting even older. I love your logic.:rollin

Here, let me explain to the novice ST poster what you're trying to do here. Last year you were all over Miami's nuts and said they would win the title--an opinion that cost you $500 iirc:lol

Now that the Lakers have become the Kobeshow (moreso than in years past), you're disingenuously saying that they have a chance just so you can throw Kobe under the bus when it doesn't happen. Sorry homie, you're just too transparent.:lol

Last year's roster>>>This year's roster. Last year's couldn't win a game in the 2nd round, so.....where is your case?

Dismissed.:smokin




Yeah, that's why I included the 2005 Pistons as one of the 2 teams...go back and read it.

I dont agree with ALL of this ...but I do agree with the premise: Lakers are NOT title contenders. (And If by some miracle we did win feel free to bump I won't care anyway we will have "17")

I also agree with the "motives". We got skunked. The front-office sought to make moves to address a massive whole on the team, failed but yet we are still contenders?

You haters just want some ammo to blame Kobe if they don't win. His team was good enough. His fanbois argue the opposite. I am neither. if this team wins a title either Kobe is the GOAT end of discussion or Mike Brown is a miracle worker.

:lol duncan top 10 ...Kobe top 15 If duncan is top 10 then Kobe is almost top 5 :lmao

[DPG21920]

No

[Deuce Bigalow]

No. Tim is a surefire top 10 player. Kobe is a fringe top 15.

:lolWhere have you been the last 2 years?

[Spur_Fanatic]

Where have you been the last 16 years?

Kobe is a great sidekick. But Top 15? Maybe behind Pippen, sure.

[Giuseppe]

Pardon me.

Jockey time!