What's wrong with Matt Bonner

[GSH]

Let me preface this by saying that I know a bunch of people will want to make smartass replies like, "Who cares?" (One answer is that he is a member of the team, and when he's right he puts up a lot of points.) Amuse yourseves, I guess. I figure there are still a few people who are actually interested in basketball.

A couple of years ago, I said that I was pretty sure Manu was injured, a week or two before the Spurs announced that he had been playing hurt. I could see it, in particular, in the way he was shooting 3's. What I've been seeing from Matt Bonner, in my opinion, looks even worse.

Do you remember last year, when Bonner took that really nasty knee-to-knee shot? He missed more time than most people expected, and they said he had a deep bone bruise (actually, it was bone marrow edema). Ever since he came back from that injury, Bonner can't make a three-pointer with his feet together to save his ass. Okay - technically I can think of maybe three. But for the most part, the only way he can get a 3-pointer to fall is if he shoots with his legs apart in a scissor. (Right leg a little forward, left leg way back.)

Why does that matter? Well for one, it's crappy form for a set shot - especially for a right-hander. And, second, it's not the way he used to shoot when he was leading the league in 3-pointers. I think he's still having problems with that right knee. Maybe I'm wrong, and he just got into some really bad habits during his rehab. But that's not what it looks like. And there were several occasions after his return when he seemed to be grimacing from pain, even though it didn't look like anything happened. Tonight he came up hurting, and had to take himself out of the game. It looked like all he did was land after shooting a 3 pointer. He came out favoring that same right knee.

There's a look when a good shooter strokes a 3, and his legs (almost together) kick out in front of his body. Bonner couldn't get into that position in a million years, with the way his feet are set before the shot. To me, it looks like his right leg is weak and he either puts the left back to get a little extra drive.

He was playing pretty good ball before the injury - arguably the best of his career. He hasn't looked the same since. And he had been shooting .504 from the 3P line before the injury. I think he was sub-.400 after he came back. This year he's shooting .378 from the arc, and nothing about the way he's playing looks the same. I can't prove it (obviously) but I really think there's still a problem with that knee. There's definitely something wrong with his form on the long shots.

You can bash the guy all you want, but when he's shooting 50% of his 3's and bringing down some boards, he's good to have on the floor.

[TJastal]

Could also explain why the guy's vertical has dropped from 3 inches to .5

[jason1301]

Thanks for posting, I agree 100%!

[Sean Cagney]

I will take the who gives a shyt stance and just say he started early this year rather than a month before the playoffs when he falls off yearly! I would rather say where is Matt Bonner (Not Like I would care) than what happened or whats wrong with him. He is what he is, garbage.

BTW I disagree when he is not shooting .500 from three he is shyt, he never got boards nor played much d, sure he hustled at times lol! If his shot is not falling he is a liability, period.

[DMC]

I think he's been nursing a leg problem all season. He's incredibly labored getting up and down the court. Surely the team knows this yet Pop plays him just the same. So then, what's wrong with Pop?

Matt is no better, probably worse, than a Jason Kapono. We could use a shitty defender who has a quicker release on the 3.

[Proxy]

It's stupid to count on something as inconsistent as Bonner. He's valuable if he's going 5-5 beyond the arc. Even then, he's a liability in every other aspect of the game. Too much of a risk.

I don't know if Pop is wanting him to play Horry's role or something... but once Bonner gets a good streak going, lets all cross our fingers that some team that needs outside shooting takes the bait and SA FO gets their heads out of their asses and trades him... and gets back to the formula that got us rings.

[Sean Cagney]

It's stupid to count on something as inconsistent as Bonner. He's valuable if he's going 5-5 beyond the arc. Even then, he's a liability in every other aspect of the game. Too much of a risk.

I don't know if Pop is wanting him to play Horry's role or something... but once Bonner gets a good streak going, lets all cross our fingers that some team that needs outside shooting takes the bait and SA FO gets their heads out of their asses and trades him... and gets back to the formula that got us rings.

AMEN there :greedy:greedy I can't wait to get rid of this dude off this team, it's not secret I can't stand the guy as a player, wish he was gone when we had the shot to get rid of him years ago.

[ElNono]

It's difficult not to care because he gets the minutes and being a one trick pony, that shot is largely what he brings to the table. IIRC, I read a while back he admitted to being a bit out of shape.

Expecting somebody to consistently shoot 50+% from 3 is just unrealistic. I don't think it's ever been done. Basketball-wise, I think that's one of the factors at play here: Statistical anomalies have a way of coming back to normal over the long haul.

Personally, I can't wait until the Bonner era in San Antonio is over.

[Borosai]

Matty's just giving the other guys some time to shine before he goes supernova.

[angelbelow]

I do hope hes okay. Our team is too thin up front for him to get hurt. And we need his instant offense from time to time. Limited to 10-15 minutes Bonner can be an effective NBA player, so with that said I would hate to see him go down right now.

[therealtruth]

I just don't see Bonner in the rotation on a championship team. Maybe Pop's trying to prove wrong what everybody can see.

[therealtruth]

It's difficult not to care because he gets the minutes and being a one trick pony, that shot is largely what he brings to the table. IIRC, I read a while back he admitted to being a bit out of shape.

Expecting somebody to consistently shoot 50+% from 3 is just unrealistic. I don't think it's ever been done. Basketball-wise, I think that's one of the factors at play here: Statistical anomalies have a way of coming back to normal over the long haul.

Personally, I can't wait until the Bonner era in San Antonio is over.

I think a couple of times people have shot over 50% from 3. Kerr I think did it at least once. He was much more consistent than Bonner and had a quicker release. Basically if his 3 before missed you knew the next one was going in.

[Solid D]

Tonight he came up hurting, and had to take himself out of the game. It looked like all he did was land after shooting a 3 pointer. He came out favoring that same right knee.

Matt was actually injured on the possession prior to the 3-pointer he made. On the OB play at the defensive end, Matt got caught between Lopez and Shannon Brown and Shannon kneed him.

[TheSpurglar]

The play right before Bonner's made 3 was a 3 on the other end by Morris, I believe, and Morris was wide open because Bonner had to fight through a screen. I'm pretty sure that was where Bonner either got his injury or aggravated what was already wrong with him. The announcers weren't paying any attention to Bonner until after he made his own shot, which is why I don't think it was noticed by them. Looked to me like he might have caught a knee to the thigh or he might have bumped knees with a Phoenix player fighting through that screen. The fact that he managed to run back down on offense and make a 3 of his own before intentionally fouling to get out of the game was kinda impressive.

[ElNono]

I think a couple of times people have shot over 50% from 3. Kerr I think did it at least once. He was much more consistent than Bonner and had a quicker release. Basically if his 3 before missed you knew the next one was going in.

I'm talking over the course of various seasons. Kerr had back to back 50+% 3 point shooting only once in his long career. He actually retired with a 37% 3 point shooting percentage (career wise). Kerr, much like Horry, had a knack for hitting them when they mattered though.

[TDMVPDPOY]

when his not dropping 3s, his a liability on the court

[silverblk mystix]

What's wrong with Matt Bonner is that he is on the Spurs...

[Darkwaters]

You have to be worried about Bonner. This team only has four bigmen and losing any of them would be catastrophic.

[mathbzh]

I'm talking over the course of various seasons. Kerr had back to back 50+% 3 point shooting only once in his long career. He actually retired with a 37% 3 point shooting percentage (career wise). Kerr, much like Horry, had a knack for hitting them when they mattered though.

It was 45% (37% was for the playoffs).

[dbestpro]

Bonner is playing right to his ability. He is a good three point shooter when no one is near him because he shoots the ball so low. He has virtuality no hops or mobility so you get what you get. He is what he is. Anything more than 7-8 minutes per game is a waste.

[KuntryDude]

He just sucks. Plain and simple. The guy sucks.

[mexicanjunior]

Who cares...I hope his injury opens up more minutes for Splitter. Bonner is a cancer on the team. As long as he is on the roster, Pop will force feed him minutes, knowing full well his defense and rebounding is atrocious...plus, he knows the guy will tank in the playoffs.

[vander]

the obscene hatred and scapegoating of Bonner on this board finally got to him. I hope you jerks are proud of yourselves.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Spurs should just focus on another big to take Bonner's minutes. While I'm the biggest anti-bonner posters on here, I have no issue with him getting 10 minutes or LESS per game. It's just obviously not possible since we only have 4 full time bigs on the roster (Thomas has yet to really do anything).

ElNono said it best, the end of the Bonner era will be a great one. He's overtaken Michael Finley as that player getting way too many undeserved minutes.

If Bonner was injured and not playing it might benefit the team into forcing their hand at looking at even more bigs, but if he's injured/hampered and still trying to play, it will only be worse for us in the long run.

[cheguevara]

he's waiting to shine on the playoffs

[ElNono]

It was 45% (37% was for the playoffs).

You're right. Still, I think we can agree that asking for a consistent 50+% is asking for too much.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Bonner's line last night:

16:52
2-5 3 pointers, 2-2 FT, 8 points
team +9 when on the court
5 rebs, 1 O 4 D

Really not a bad line for someone who is "a liability on the court".

Plus Sean Elliott had good things to say about his rebounding. And he did the after-time-out diagramming of a play where the Spurs scored on a layup because the guy guarding Bonner (Hakeem Warrick I think) had to get out of the paint to guard against the kickout to Bonner at the 3 point line.

This is EXACTLY what I've been talking about in other threads. The guy is not a starter on most teams, but he does contribute in ways that often don't show up on the stat sheet.

Oh and I found this too, in the postgame quotes:

Suns forward Grant Hill:

(On what they can do on defense to limit the other team)

“We had been doing well defensively and offensively we weren’t at our best. Going into tonight’s game, they put a lot of pressure on you. Defensively, I think we could’ve made a couple changes here and there, such as not leaving Bonner to make an open three and things like that. For the most part it wasn’t too bad as offensively we are just not in a good rhythm and groove yet as hopefully that will come sooner then later.”

Illustrates exactly what I've been saying that Bonner stretches the other team's defense and makes them account for him or pay the price.

[GSH]

Bonner is playing right to his ability. He is a good three point shooter when no one is near him because he shoots the ball so low. He has virtuality no hops or mobility so you get what you get. He is what he is. Anything more than 7-8 minutes per game is a waste.


I was waiting for someone to say that. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that he did not used to shoot the ball as flat as he is right now. Here's how:

A number of the really world-class shooting coaches say that, on its way to the basket, a shot should travel at least as high as the top of the backboard. (Anyone who knows the game knows that the hoop gets much bigger for a shot that is travelling downward, rather than being flat.) I started watching for that. One of the things I saw was that Matt Bonner was the only player on the Spurs who shot the ball that way. I started pointing it out to people I watch games with. Once they started watching, they were blown away by how high Bonner shot the ball - especially compared to the rest of the players on the team.

I'm telling you - Bonner's shot arc is something I watched carefully, over an extended period of time. (Coincidence) Not only that, I observed and discussed it with other people, so I'm pretty sure it's not just bias on my part. And his shot used to be much higher than it is now. The change came when he returned from that knee injury.

I know a lot of you just hate Bonner - maybe he's earned it. But those of you who know anything about shot mechanics should understand that this leg-scissor stance he's using is going to result in a flat shot that, as a result, rattles out a lot. Ask yourself why a really successful 3-point shooter would suddenly alter his fundamentals like that.

We can argue about how quick his release is, or used to be. (Sean Elliott commented many times on-air about Matt's quick release. But what does he know about shooting?) I don't think he releases it as quick as he used to, but that also is a product of getting into that bizarre stance. But even if you won't be convinced about his release, the guy is still 6'10" tall. A guy that tall is going to get some extra shots off from the arc, just because he can shoot over the guys coming out to contest - even if his release isn't quick.

Some of you are going to be polarized about every player - they're either all good or all bad. Nothing will change that. But I can tell you that the Bonner we're seeing on the court isn't the same one that we saw before the injury. And his shooting mechanic has changed - for the worse. I don't see a guy with a really sweet stroke deciding to butcher it for no reason.

-----

Here's one more thing. I dug up an article from last season, where he talks aobut the injury. (I'm posting a clip, and a link below.) In it, he says that the knee still hurts when he crouches. But luckily, he says, he doesn't go that low to shoot. My point: Maybe he should. I think he quit using his legs (correctly) to shoot, because of the knee.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/02/08/bonner-nearing-return-from-knee-injury/
Bonner describes the pain in his knee as a sharp, shooting ache — “like being stabbed with a knife,” he says. It comes and goes quickly when he makes certain sudden movements.

The knee most bothers Bonner when he puts excess weight on it, such as when he makes a cut, crouches to block out for a rebound or loads up to jump. It doesn’t bother him when he shoots.

“Luckily, I don’t get that low to shoot,” Bonner said.

Before the injury, Bonner was enjoying his best professional season, averaging 7.6 points and shooting a team-leading 50.4 percent from 3-point range, a figure good for second in the NBA.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

I agree with what you said but I think the poster you replied to was talking about Bonner's release point on the shot, not the height of the shot arc.

[Mel_13]

Good work, GSH.

It's rather a thankless job to put together a thoughtful analysis about a player who generates such an emotional response, but there are some who appreciate the effort.

[TJastal]

This much is clear. Dude needs to hit the bench for an extended R&R. If his knee really is bothering him that much, he's just flat out lying that it isn't affecting the way he shoots.

[Spur|n|Austin]

This much is clear. Dude needs to hit the bench for an extended R&R. If his knee really is bothering him that much, he's just flat out lying that it isn't affecting the way he shoots.

Agreed, he was hurting us already; an injured Bonner is definitely a liability, obviously more so than a healthy one..

[Brazil]

Good work, GSH.

It's rather a thankless job to put together a thoughtful analysis about a player who generates such an emotional response, but there are some who appreciate the effort.

+1

I was wondering myself what was going on with him... something doesn't look okay. I asked in same game blog if somebody had an explanation, yours seem very plausible GSH. that's good stuff I enjoy reading you !

[ElNono]

Don't get me started on the rebounding...

There's only 2 active players 6'10 and up (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=Y&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=trb_per_g_req&c1stat=trb_per_g&c1comp=lt&c1val=3&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=trb_per_g) in the entire league getting consistent minutes and averaging less than 3 boards per game. He is one of them.

[Brazil]

Don't get me started on the rebounding...

There's only 2 active players 6'10 and up (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=Y&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=trb_per_g_req&c1stat=trb_per_g&c1comp=lt&c1val=3&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=trb_per_g) in the entire league getting consistent minutes and averaging less than 3 boards per game. He is one of them.

still he is rebounding D reb better than blair

[ElNono]

still he is rebounding D reb better than blair

Blair is short. He actually has an excuse :lol

[intlspurshk]

At this point, I strongly support giving Bonner 20 mins per game. I hate Bonner. But obviously playing Splitter / KL more than 30 mins a game under the current schedule will make them hit the rookie wall sometimes before playoff. I don't want to see the whole team to be gased at playoff. It's ok to be the 6th or 7th seed as long as the team is healthy and doesn't peak too soon. And it helps to get a better draft next year.

[timvp]

Don't get me started on the rebounding...

There's only 2 active players 6'10 and up (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=Y&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=trb_per_g_req&c1stat=trb_per_g&c1comp=lt&c1val=3&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=trb_per_g) in the entire league getting consistent minutes and averaging less than 3 boards per game. He is one of them.

Bonner's rebounding is actually improved this season. His rebounding rate is the same as Dirk Nowitzki and he's grabbing more defensive rebounds than LaMarcus Aldridge. Given Bonner's rebounding decline in recent years, his improvement on the boards this year is pretty surprising. He's still pretty bad but he has some good company at least.

[ElNono]

Bonner's rebounding is actually improved this season. His rebounding rate is the same as Dirk Nowitzki and he's grabbing more defensive rebounds than LaMarcus Aldridge. Given Bonner's rebounding decline in recent years, his improvement on the boards this year is pretty surprising. He's still pretty bad but he has some good company at least.

The problem is that more minutes don't normally extrapolate to more rebounds for Matt. I would have to dig the games where he played more than 20 mins, but I'm fairly sure I remember a few 30 mins games from the playoffs where he was abysmal.

Right now, his average is tied for worst in his career (2.8). I did notice he picked it up the last couple of games so that might change, but for being 6-10 he's always been a fairly poor rebounder.

[Mel_13]

The problem is that more minutes don't normally extrapolate to more rebounds for Matt. I would have to dig the games where he played more than 20 mins, but I'm fairly sure I remember a few 30 mins games from the playoffs where he was abysmal.

Right now, his average is tied for worst in his career (2.8). I did notice he picked it up the last couple of games so that might change, but for being 6-10 he's always been a fairly poor rebounder.

:lol

I'd love to sit down and watch a Spurs game with you someday. Just to see your reactions every time the ginger is in the frame.

[SenorSpur]

I appreciate the work that GSH put into this post on Bonner. I read it thoroughly, but I remain nonplussed. Yes, Bonner does get bashed a lot around here, but let's not pretend that it's unjustified. It's just really hard for me to muster up any empathy or understanding for a player, who is a one-trick pony, who instantly makes the Spurs a defensively-inferior team the minute he steps onto the court, and one who regularly breathes life into opposing players by allowing them gain great confidence against him.

So what if Bonner occasionally "shoots 50% of his 3's and bringing down some boards"? The operative word here is occasionally. The rest of the time his shooting is inconsistent. He's also a poor rebounder, a terrible defender and he simply lacks the skills necessary for a rotation big on this team. What good is it to have a single skill set, when you're not mentally tough and you're inconsistent? And the unkindest cut of all about Bonner, he chokes repeatedly in pressure situations and annually in the playoffs.

If Duncan were still in his prime and could still carry the team or if Blair were 6'10", Bonner's deficiencies wouldn't be so glaring. However, that's not the case. This Spurs team is starving for more help on the frontline and Bonner simply has never been able to provide what the the Spurs have needed out of that position. It's mostly Pop's fault for becoming so heavily dependent upon him - in the post Robert Horry era - albeit with continuous sample of diminishing returns.

Some here may think Bonner is good to have on the floor. However I would submit to anyone that, because of his inferior skill set, his defensive liabilities and his repeated playoff failings, he's not worth even having on the roster.

[lefty]

http://blog.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/meanwhile-at-the-jokers-hideout-29596-1296067494-34.jpg

[GSH]

I appreciate the work that GSH put into this post on Bonner. I read it thoroughly, but I remain nonplussed. Yes, Bonner does get bashed a lot around here, but let's not pretend that it's unjustified. It's just really hard for me to muster up any empathy or understanding for a player, who is a one-trick pony, who instantly makes the Spurs a defensively-inferior team the minute he steps onto the court, and one who regularly breathes life into opposing players by allowing them gain great confidence against him.



Echhh... can't argue with most of that. Like I said, before the injury, he was probably playing the best ball of his career. At that point, he was a plus to the roster. (Even on ST, the comments were very positive.)

I believe there's something wrong with that right knee still. If that's the case, then you have to wonder if he's discussed it with the Spurs staff. Maybe worried about the next contract? Maybe just wanting to get back in the game and help the team? Maybe they know, and there's nothing to do about it, but play him limited minutes.

About the shooting stroke, though - if he can go back to his old mechanics, and start hitting 3's more like he used to, he'll be worth a LOT more when he is on the floor. If his knee is messed up, and he can't shoot any other way? There should probably be some discussion of a disability retirement. Something has changed. Either he can fix it, or he can't. But it looks pretty obvious to me that things changed when he got injured. That was really the point of the whole thing.

[ElNono]

:lol

I'd love to sit down and watch a Spurs game with you someday. Just to see your reactions every time the ginger is in the frame.

You don't want to know :lol

Probably goes along these lines:

Zeu4BrOkZF0


Frankly, I get too emotionally invested in the whole team and should scale it back a notch or two :lol

[cantthinkofanything]

LMAO. Underrated jpeg you fuckers.


http://blog.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/meanwhile-at-the-jokers-hideout-29596-1296067494-34.jpg

[angelbelow]

I just wish we still had Mcdyess or another capable big because I'm tired of watching Bonner play. But again, I hope hes okay because we simply cannot afford an injury right now.

Bonner's been coming in for Blair but I really want to see Splitter and Duncan together for once.

[silverblk mystix]

I was waiting for someone to say that. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that he did not used to shoot the ball as flat as he is right now. Here's how:

A number of the really world-class shooting coaches say that, on its way to the basket, a shot should travel at least as high as the top of the backboard. (Anyone who knows the game knows that the hoop gets much bigger for a shot that is travelling downward, rather than being flat.) I started watching for that. One of the things I saw was that Matt Bonner was the only player on the Spurs who shot the ball that way. I started pointing it out to people I watch games with. Once they started watching, they were blown away by how high Bonner shot the ball - especially compared to the rest of the players on the team.

I'm telling you - Bonner's shot arc is something I watched carefully, over an extended period of time. (Coincidence) Not only that, I observed and discussed it with other people, so I'm pretty sure it's not just bias on my part. And his shot used to be much higher than it is now. The change came when he returned from that knee injury.

I know a lot of you just hate Bonner - maybe he's earned it. But those of you who know anything about shot mechanics should understand that this leg-scissor stance he's using is going to result in a flat shot that, as a result, rattles out a lot. Ask yourself why a really successful 3-point shooter would suddenly alter his fundamentals like that.

We can argue about how quick his release is, or used to be. (Sean Elliott commented many times on-air about Matt's quick release. But what does he know about shooting?) I don't think he releases it as quick as he used to, but that also is a product of getting into that bizarre stance. But even if you won't be convinced about his release, the guy is still 6'10" tall. A guy that tall is going to get some extra shots off from the arc, just because he can shoot over the guys coming out to contest - even if his release isn't quick.

Some of you are going to be polarized about every player - they're either all good or all bad. Nothing will change that. But I can tell you that the Bonner we're seeing on the court isn't the same one that we saw before the injury. And his shooting mechanic has changed - for the worse. I don't see a guy with a really sweet stroke deciding to butcher it for no reason.

-----

Here's one more thing. I dug up an article from last season, where he talks aobut the injury. (I'm posting a clip, and a link below.) In it, he says that the knee still hurts when he crouches. But luckily, he says, he doesn't go that low to shoot. My point: Maybe he should. I think he quit using his legs (correctly) to shoot, because of the knee.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/02/08/bonner-nearing-return-from-knee-injury/
Bonner describes the pain in his knee as a sharp, shooting ache — “like being stabbed with a knife,” he says. It comes and goes quickly when he makes certain sudden movements.

The knee most bothers Bonner when he puts excess weight on it, such as when he makes a cut, crouches to block out for a rebound or loads up to jump. It doesn’t bother him when he shoots.

“Luckily, I don’t get that low to shoot,” Bonner said.

Before the injury, Bonner was enjoying his best professional season, averaging 7.6 points and shooting a team-leading 50.4 percent from 3-point range, a figure good for second in the NBA.

ummm...nice writing and research and you make some points...but.....






[B]WHO GIVES A FUCK?

He just plain sucks...you can paint it any fuckin' color you want but in the end....he just fuckin' sux...and EVERY FUCKIN' MINUTE THAT- THIS MOTHERFUCKER IS ON THE MOTHERFUCKIN' FLOOR ---

HE IS TAKING MINUTES AWAY FROM A DESERVING PLAYER....FROM A PLAYER WHO WON'T FUCKIN' HURT THE MOTHERFUCKIN' SPURS TEAM....




WHAT KIND OF FUCKIN' RESEARCH AND LENGTHY FUCKIN ARTICLES HAVE TO BE WRITTEN,ANALYZED & DEBATED BEFORE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT






HE JUST FUCKIN SUX???????

[SenorSpur]

Echhh... can't argue with most of that. Like I said, before the injury, he was probably playing the best ball of his career. At that point, he was a plus to the roster. (Even on ST, the comments were very positive.)

I believe there's something wrong with that right knee still. If that's the case, then you have to wonder if he's discussed it with the Spurs staff. Maybe worried about the next contract? Maybe just wanting to get back in the game and help the team? Maybe they know, and there's nothing to do about it, but play him limited minutes.

About the shooting stroke, though - if he can go back to his old mechanics, and start hitting 3's more like he used to, he'll be worth a LOT more when he is on the floor. If his knee is messed up, and he can't shoot any other way? There should probably be some discussion of a disability retirement. Something has changed. Either he can fix it, or he can't. But it looks pretty obvious to me that things changed when he got injured. That was really the point of the whole thing.

I get what you're saying. And I applaud you for even noticing these minute details regarding Bonner. For me personally, I just try to ignore him when he's on the court, so there's no way I would've been aware of what you've witnessed. Again, I appreciate your bringing this up.

One never wants to see a player injured and I would certainly never wish that on a player or person. Yet, I will say this: I do find myself counting the days until Bonner is off this roster permanently. If this knee situation is such that it expedites his exit, so be it.

[GSH]

I get what you're saying. And I applaud you for even noticing these minute details regarding Bonner. For me personally, I just try to ignore him when he's on the court, so there's no way I would've been aware of what you've witnessed. Again, I appreciate your bringing this up.



You made me laugh. Sounds like it's a choice between ignoring him completely, and your head exploding. I think you're making the right choice.

[Duncan2177]

If Matt is having a problem it's time to get Wallace.

[maverick1948]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSmDJEfVYSY

short clip 44 secs of matt shooting from 3 pt land a couple of years ago. Same low shot, same feet spread, and same results. Good nights and bad nights.

[Mel_13]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSmDJEfVYSY

short clip 44 secs of matt shooting from 3 pt land a couple of years ago. Same low shot, same feet spread, and same results. Good nights and bad nights.

That stance doesn't look like what he's using this season.

[ElNono]

lAWdA8ccX8Q

:lol

[temujin]

You gotta love Spurstalk.
Seriously.
There are posters that go so much in details as to microdissect Matt Bonner's tecnique of shooting 3 pointers.
The position of the right leg. Or whether he grins during a timeout.
This GSH chap is one of a kind, some two weeks ago he was analyzing in even greater details Green's boxing out (or lack of) in one single possession.
Pretty amazing.

I can tell you one thing for sure, not even professional coaches go so much in details.

The problem I see with this attitude is that you tend to lose the big picture.

Now, assuming GSH is right (Bonner's problem initiates with the knee injury), you have 8 months to heal. Nothing structural so that should be enough.
That will be enough for a 60 years old guy that is NOT a professional athlete.
And that is more than my educated guess.

There is another, simpler explanation: Bonner is 32.
He is the ultimate specialist, relying exclusively on his 3 point shot for his living, which is a spot up opportunity coming from the feeds of others.
As he has never been remotely close to the average NBA player in terms of athleticism in his young days, he is just dropping below that thin liìne that keeps him running up and down the court with these young guys AND have enough breath to release his shot correctly whwnever a Manu-less team feeds him.

[SenorSpur]

lAWdA8ccX8Q

:lol

He was in the lane long enough to have pitched a tent and started a fire - by rubbing two sticks together.:lol

[SenorSpur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSmDJEfVYSY

short clip 44 secs of matt shooting from 3 pt land a couple of years ago. Same low shot, same feet spread, and same results. Good nights and bad nights.

...and the annual playoff choking.

[Phenomanul]

You don't want to know :lol

Probably goes along these lines:

Zeu4BrOkZF0



:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol Such comedic anger....!

What's truly laughable is that the rest of the family members just go about their business as if nothing were out of the ordinary... except near the end when they offer him a relaxing sedative so that he will "be able to rest through the night"...

[GSH]

Temujun - if you knew dick about basketball, you wouldn't have posted this:


Anderson looks like a young version of Jefferson. (?)

Green is a serious basketball player with a solid basketball background. (He's good because he has family members who are good? Or because he was good in college?)

As for Leonard, the Hill trade looks increasingly absurd, unless Lorbek switches team AND Bertrans develops into a complete player. (Yes... everyone is wishing we had Hill back now, instead of Leonard. Our only hope is Lorbek and Bertans. You even spelled Bertans wrong.)



Oh, wait... you aren't even watching the fucking games:


Sounds like defense and Emanuel Ginobili.
Sounds about right.

Makes me think back to the decision NOT to pay for the league pass this year, as long as Jefferson is on the team.


Thanks for explaining the "big picture" to me. But that's all you can get by reading articles, isn't it?

[temujin]

Temujun - if you knew dick about basketball, you wouldn't have posted this:




Oh, wait... you aren't even watching the fucking games:




Thanks for explaining the "big picture" to me. But that's all you can get by reading articles, isn't it?


:lol

Did I sting you? Nothing personal, actually.
Is that all you came up with from my "production"?
:lol

You spent some time, so I owe you this.

I have watched Games 1-9, untill ILP expired.
And yes I am not watching a Manu-less team playing an overpacked NBA schedule, with most of the games being decided by which team is less tired.
Check out what I wrote about games I didn't watch, while you are it.
That's quick.

One thing is sure, I don't look at reruns of single meaningless possessions in the thrid quarter.

Yes, the first Spurs games was defense and Ginobili. Check out the stats.
Yes, Indiana seems to be doing pretty well with Hill (quite a turnaround isn't it?), and this Leonard guy is untested in tough games. In the meantime, Bertans is doing little, and Lorbek is by far, in my humble opinion, the best of the lot. That, I watch.
Yes, Danny Green (by the way, good comparison to Anthony Parker) comes from NC: isn't that an organization that could be qualified as SOLID BACKGROUND, basketball-wise?
Check out the stats of their kids turning professional athletes.
What else?
Anderson? I was a bit optimistic by comparing to jefferson, a player I never liked. I wasn't kind to Anderson.

So what's left?
Ah yes the spelling of Bertans.
Terrible mistake.

Back to the big picture.

There is no Manu to feed wide open threes to Matt Bonner.
Bonner is 32 and can't keep up with the young legs around the league.
I write this precisely because I know what it means to be young, on a basketball court, and then less young.

:toast

[GSH]

:lol

And yes I am not watching a Manu-less team playing




That's all I needed to read. You're not even watching the games, and you want to come here and talk shit? Nobody's interested in you puking back what you read in the game thread. The only thing worse than an asshole is an irrelevant asshole.

[GSH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSmDJEfVYSY

short clip 44 secs of matt shooting from 3 pt land a couple of years ago. Same low shot, same feet spread, and same results. Good nights and bad nights.

I wanted to wait until I had something specific to counter with. I'm watching the Heat game. With just under 5:00 in the 2nd, Bonner put up a 3. His left foot is 18" behind his right.

NO... his shot is nothing like what it was in that video. That video is near picture perfect. What we're seeing now is poop.

[temujin]

That's all I needed to read. You're not even watching the games, and you want to come here and talk shit? Nobody's interested in you puking back what you read in the game thread. The only thing worse than an asshole is an irrelevant asshole.

:lol:lol:lol
The chap losing some 10 millions (and counting) on my comments on internet would probably disagree.

[temujin]

I wanted to wait until I had something specific to counter with. I'm watching the Heat game. With just under 5:00 in the 2nd, Bonner put up a 3. His left foot is 18" behind his right.

NO... his shot is nothing like what it was in that video. That video is near picture perfect. What we're seeing now is poop.

:lol:lol:lol

I should probably find some time to read your posts more often.
The descriptons are more vivid than watching games live.
And way more fun.

:toast