How long do you give Matt Bonner?..

[HarlemHeat37]

He's shooting 36% from 3, 41% from the field..the lowest percentages of his recent career..

It's evident that opposing teams have made it a priority to close out hard, thus rendering him as a useless player..

How long should he retain his current spot in the rotation?..how long will Pop give him?..

[Hoops Czar]

He's useless. But he's part of the Spurs family and once your here, your here forever.

[Mal]

only 4 big mens on roster.

[ElNono]

He'll play as usual

[HarlemHeat37]

He's going to play regardless, due to the number of big men on the roster..I'm asking how long he'll remain as the 2nd/3rd big..

Blair isn't much better, but at least he'll occasionally display some upside, outside of 1-dimensional, inconsistent shooting(Bonner's contribution, at the moment)..

[ElNono]

He's going to play regardless, due to the number of big men on the roster..I'm asking how long he'll remain as the 2nd/3rd big..

As long as Tim is around. I was pointing out in the game thread that Pop is seemingly convinced that as long as offense is run through Tim, Matt has to be there in his 'floor-spacing' capacity

[TDomination]

Until we get someone that pop likes better.

[Cry Havoc]

only 4 big mens on roster.

2 of which are getting under 25 minutes a game. You're telling me the team wouldn't benefit from one of them (or both) getting 30 minutes a night?

[HarlemHeat37]

I disagree with the logic, but I understand..however, if Bonner keeps shooting at his current rate, i don't know how Pop will justify his playing time..

[baseline bum]

how long will Pop give him?..

Two more years plus whatever extension he signs after.

[ElNono]

I disagree with the logic, but I understand..however, if Bonner keeps shooting at his current rate, i don't know how Pop will justify his playing time..

I disagree too. That bluff has been called too many times before, and successfully. That said, if you ask me what I think will happen, then that's what I think will happen.

[Cry Havoc]

I disagree with the logic, but I understand..however, if Bonner keeps shooting at his current rate, i don't know how Pop will justify his playing time..

If I were the San Antonio media, I would just start asking Pop over and over why he's playing Bonner ahead of Tiago until he gives a straight answer. Pop is one of the smartest coaches in NBA history making one of the dumbest decisions I've ever seen -- on a nightly basis.

[mexicanjunior]

Until we get someone that sucks pop's dick better.

fify

[Sean Cagney]

No need to worry this will happen until he is gone! He is here to stay and we all hate it.

[ElNono]

Oh, and about the "justify" part... justify to who? The world will end before somebody in the SA media calls Pop out on anything.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bonner needs to shoot at least 42-43% from 3 to effectively aid the team IMO..you could argue that even at that rate, his impact is negated by his flaws, but at least there's an argument..

If he's shooting at his current rate, 36%, which is about average(if I had to guess), his flaws are going to overshadow his strengths, obviously..

[SenorSpur]

Give him amnesty this offseason.

[angelbelow]

I wouldn't have played him at all last year. Which is really too bad because we're forced to play him this year.

[Russ]

Two more years plus whatever extension he signs after.

He'll probably go straight to the front office like Mitch (I was a bust as a Laker player) Kupchak.

[Yuixafun]

I watched the game and he wasn't as terrible as you guys make it seem.
Yes he missed all his threes but so did the rest of the Spurs.

Bonner hung in there at crucial moments of the game and was able to make some plays, like when he cut backdoor and scored off a TP assist.

It's not as black and white as how many minutes a player gets...
Certain realities materialize with different line-ups.

I would like to see Splitter get more minutes as well, but I understand why Pop will play Bonner more and don't really begrudge him.

Once Timmy get's acclimated to hanging out on the perimeter on offense, and how to operate from it with a different mental approach, which it seems like he's transitioning into a KG type PF of the past, then Tiago could fit with Timmy better and they could combo.

[ElNono]

I watched the game and he wasn't as terrible as you guys make it seem.
Yes he missed all his threes but so did the rest of the Spurs.

Bonner hung in there at crucial moments of the game and was able to make some plays, like when he cut backdoor and scored off a TP assist.

It's not as black and white as how many minutes a player gets...
Certain realities materialize with different line-ups.

I would like to see Splitter get more minutes as well, but I understand why Pop will play Bonner more and don't really begrudge him.

Once Timmy get's acclimated to hanging out on the perimeter on offense, and how to operate from it with a different mental approach, which it seems like he's transitioning into a KG type PF of the past, then Tiago could fit with Timmy better and they could combo.

Tiago: 18 mins, 10 points, 6 boards, 1 block, 1 steal
Bonner: 20 mins, 4 points, 1 board, 1 steal

No, we don't have to "live with" Bonner... the team has a better big that plays better than him and should be getting more minutes, not less.

Oh, and you forgot there's two sides of the court. Matty being horrendous on offense only exacerbates the fact he can't play D to save his life. He almost costs us the game tonight.

[MI21]

45% or better from 3 on 4+ attempts per game better is the only way Bonner should be receiving more than 8-10 minutes a game.

[Yuixafun]

Yes Tiago is doing really good lately, especially his help defense and more aggressive offense.

I would like to see him play more minutes too.

But maybe Bonner just fits into more line-ups right now is the point I'm trying to make.

[Ice009]

He's shooting 36% from 3, 41% from the field..the lowest percentages of his recent career..

It's evident that opposing teams have made it a priority to close out hard, thus rendering him as a useless player..

How long should he retain his current spot in the rotation?..how long will Pop give him?..

It's what teams should have been doing in the first place. You absolutely want him on the court if you're the other team so you can abuse him on offense, but if you take him off the three point line then the Spurs get nothing on offense and defense. That works out great for our opponents.

[jestersmash]

He's shooting 36% from 3 point land and 41% from the field, but you have to factor in the relative proportion of 3 point attempts to 2 point attempts that he's taking. Effective field goal percentage pays attention to the fact that 3 point attempts are worth more than 2 point attempts.

Player A is 3-10 from the field (with 3 three pointers), for 9 points.
Player B is 4-10 from the field (with 0 three pointers), for 8 points.

Player A's total FG% is 30 to player B's 40 FG%, and yet player A is technically more efficient from the field.

EFG%
Effective Field Goal Percentage; the formula is (FG + 0.5 * 3P) / FGA. This statistic adjusts for the fact that a 3-point field goal is worth one more point than a 2-point field goal. For example, suppose Player A goes 4 for 10 with 2 threes, while Player B goes 5 for 10 with 0 threes. Each player would have 10 points from field goals, and thus would have the same effective field goal percentage (50%).


Ranking spurs players by eFG%:

1. Manu Ginobili eFG% = 73.5 (likely to come down once sample size increases)
2. Richard Jefferson eFG% = 61.7
3. Danny Green eFG% = 60.2
4. Tiago Splitter eFG% = 57.6
5. DeJuan Blair eFG% = 54.5
6. Matt Bonner eFG% = 54.2
7. Kawhi Leonard eFG% = 52.9
8. Gary Neal eFG% = 47.1
9. T.J. Ford eFG% = 45.7
10. Tim Duncan eFG% = 46.8
11. Tony Parker eFG% = 44.8
12. James Anderson eFG% = 43.1
13. Cory Joseph eFG% = 30.8

Bonner is middle of the pack right now in terms of overall offensive efficiency (well, not overall because eFG% does not take into account free throws, but I wanted to start with the relatively more simple stat of eFG% instead of delving right into true shooting percentage (TS%) because eFG% is easier to comprehend).

It's virtually the same story when you look at true shooting percentage as well. The point is, Bonner isn't nearly as inefficient on offense as many would like to think.

Now, defense is an entirely different story...

[mexicanjunior]

But maybe Bonner just fits into more line-ups right now is the point I'm trying to make.

There is no lineup that Bonner fits into unless you are purposely trying to kill your team's chances of defending/rebounding. He should be nothing more than a garbage time player and some D-League teams would have probably cut him by now for shooting this bad.

[jestersmash]

Just to be clear, I don't disagree with most people when they say Bonner should get less minutes (especially compared to Tiago). I'm just saying, if you had to pick one stat to "encapsulate" Bonner's overall performance, FG% is not a good stat to choose.

Use eFG% or TS% if you want a measure of offensive efficiency.

Edit: And just to be crystal clear, effective field goal percentage is not some hokey, arbitrary "model" a la Hollinger PER. It's a mathematical fact.

[ElNono]

It's virtually the same story when you look at true shooting percentage as well. The point is, Bonner isn't nearly as inefficient on offense as many would like to think.

Now, defense is an entirely different story...

Well, that's Harlem's point. In order to make up for his defensive deficiencies, he has to have pristine efficiency on offense. He had that last regular season, so it was more debatable back then. But now?

[jjktkk]

Well, that's Harlem's point. In order to make up for his defensive deficiencies, he has to have pristine efficiency on offense. He had that last regular season, so it was more debatable back then. But now?

Just doesn't make sense. When Bonner isn't hitting on offense, bench him.

[jestersmash]

Well, that's Harlem's point. In order to make up for his defensive deficiencies, he has to have pristine efficiency on offense. He had that last regular season, so it was more debatable back then. But now?

No disagreements there. Given how poor Bonner is on defense, he can't afford to be "middle of the pack" in terms of offensive efficiency. He needs to be shooting lights out to make up for his defensive slack, and he's clearly not doing that. I agree with you and Harlem on that.

The main point of my post was to try and get people to - at minimum - start looking at eFG% and TS% over FG% when trying to assess offensive efficiency.

[angelbelow]

Yes Tiago is doing really good lately, especially his help defense and more aggressive offense.

I would like to see him play more minutes too.

But maybe Bonner just fits into more line-ups right now is the point I'm trying to make.

To begin the season, every positive that Bonner has done can be countered with a number of different things he does negatively.

Bonner is struggling and he knows it. You can tell from his body language, its even more piss poor than last year. Hes hesitating to shoot and should be benched accordingly.

[Ice009]

Like I said, if you're the other team you want Matt Bonner on the floor.

I'd look at ways of getting him on the floor if I was the other team. I'd even let him hit a shot or two just so Pop keeps him out there longer. As long as you play him tight most of the game on the 3 point line, it's a great move to keep him on the court and will be a lot more advantageous to your team that it would for the Spurs.

[angelbelow]

Like I said, if you're the other team you want Matt Bonner on the floor.

I'd look at ways of getting him on the floor if I was the other team. I'd even let him hit a shot or two just so Pop keeps him out there longer. As long as you play him tight most of the game on the 3 point line, it's a great move to keep him on the court and will be a lot more advantageous to your team that it would for the Spurs.

Was it Mark Cuban that said Bonner was a "limo guy"?

Limo Guy - When a player is so bad the opposing team sends a limo to their house to pick them up ensuring they arrive to the game without any problems.

[ElNono]

Like I said, if you're the other team you want Matt Bonner on the floor.

I'd look at ways of getting him on the floor if I was the other team. I'd even let him hit a shot or two just so Pop keeps him out there longer. As long as you play him tight most of the game on the 3 point line, it's a great move to keep him on the court and will be a lot more advantageous to your team that it would for the Spurs.

Frankly, this isn't as much an issue during the regular season. But in the playoffs, when coaches keep on running plays over and over through the "weak" spot, it's really a huge problem. And I think that's exactly why you want Tiago to be out there more often now too. You're going to need him on the defense when and if that time comes.

[Ice009]

Was it Mark Cuban that said Bonner was a "limo guy"?

Limo Guy - When a player is so bad the opposing team sends a limo to their house to pick them up ensuring they arrive to the game without any problems.

I think it was Barkley or someone on TNT wasn't it? Unless the TNT guys heard that from Cuban? I don't get to watch TNT much so I'm not sure.

It's a sound strategy to get Bonner on the court and keep him there as long as possible. I'm totally baffled why Pop keeps doing it, because it's not for the good of the Spurs. It almost always works out to the other teams advantage if you keep him off the 3 point line.

[angelbelow]

I think it was Barkley or someone on TNT wasn't it? Unless the TNT guys heard that from Cuban? I don't get to watch TNT much so I'm not sure.

It's a sound strategy to get Bonner on the court and keep him there as long as possible. I'm totally baffled why Pop keeps doing it, because it's not for the good of the Spurs. It almost always works out to the other teams advantage if you keep him off the 3 point line.

I know one justification is that Bonner subs for Blair and that Splitter subs for Duncan.

I kind of want to see Splitter and Duncan at the same time though. Our lack of big men really hurt us in this scenario because I'd hate to see Bonner and Blair on the court at the same time.

[Mal]

2 of which are getting under 25 minutes a game. You're telling me the team wouldn't benefit from one of them (or both) getting 30 minutes a night?

I know he sucks. But playing 3 big men rotation (undersize, old and practicly rookie) + smallball isnt better, believe me.

[jjktkk]

I know one justification is that Bonner subs for Blair and that Splitter subs for Duncan.

I kind of want to see Splitter and Duncan at the same time though. Our lack of big men really hurt us in this scenario because I'd hate to see Bonner and Blair on the court at the same time.

Thats actually the problem, but Pop overused Bonner last year, even though the Spurs still had Dice.

[ElNono]

The whole "he comes in for Duncan" argument is silly. Matt was paired with Tim, Blair and Tiago this season. If Pop wants to play Tiago for 30 mins, paired with whoever, there's no reason he couldn't do it. So far, he just don't want to do it.

[Borosai]

I'm still waiting for Bonner to get a little nasty. A little Laimbeer. Foul hard. Some elbow-to-rib action when the ref isn't looking. Discomfortablization!

[therealtruth]

Even if Bonner is shooting lights out it's not going to help in the playoffs. Tiago's defense and ability to draw fouls and put pressure on the other frontcourt will.

If any other coach was relying on Bonner so much they would have been fired by now. Other coaches like JVG have pretty much said he's not a rotation player. You need more talent so a guy like Bonner stays at the end of the bench where he belongs.

[Ditty]

Hoping for Mcdyess to come out of retirement, or Spurs going after Kenyon Martin, or we absouletly poke a team in the eyes who think Bonner can help there team out via trade.

Besides that I have not really given Bonner that much of a hard time, but he has been horrible this year, so I have finally jumped on Bonner hating bandwagon.

[angelbelow]

Thats actually the problem, but Pop overused Bonner last year, even though the Spurs still had Dice.

100% agree. I wouldn't have played him at all last year. It left a really bitter taste to last season.

[Obstructed_View]

Edit: And just to be crystal clear, effective field goal percentage is not some hokey, arbitrary "model" a la Hollinger PER. It's a mathematical fact.

It fails to take situations into account, which is how you end up with a guy who can only hit threes when the team is up by double digits as your first big off the bench.

[Mal]

Hoping for Mcdyess to come out of retirement, or Spurs going after Kenyon Martin, or we absouletly poke a team in the eyes who think Bonner can help there team out via trade.

Besides that I have not really given Bonner that much of a hard time, but he has been horrible this year, so I have finally jumped on Bonner hating bandwagon.

Waiting for Kaman. He`s gonna be waived

[SenorSpur]

Because he's only got one translatable skill, we all know that when he's not hitting those 3pt shots, he's utterly useless - on bothe ends of the court. Hell, he can even be useless when he is hitting shots - especially when he's giving up the same to the man he's guarding on the other end.

I don't care if Bonner does know the system, I personally don't believe he should be even playing in front of Malcolm Thomas. I'd much rather take a guy that throws himself into the fray, rebounds, plays defense and block shots over a gutless, low-skilled, mentally-weak, one-trick pony.

I still can't remember why in the hell they re-upped this fool.

[HarlemHeat37]

If you look at any of my stat threads, I use eFG% as my primary source for shooting percentages, I agree it's a more accurate tool(I also prefer it over TS%)..I used conventional FG% in this case, because it's easier to do a quick google search on my phone..

Bonner's eFG%, along with virtually all his other advanced stats, are all significantly worse than last year, so far..so, the point remains the same..

[mathbzh]

He's shooting 36% from 3 point land and 41% from the field, but you have to factor in the relative proportion of 3 point attempts to 2 point attempts that he's taking.

This is actually a part of the problem. When he is not hitting the 3s he does virtually nothing on the floor.

Looking eFG% is not a bad thing to measure the quality of your production But the quantity also matters.
Bonner is 11th in pts/min, 11th in ast/min and 7th in rbd/min.
With these volumes, he would need to be utterly efficient to deserve his playing time.

[Tuddy]

This is good. Bonner is going to go on his tear later in the year and save his best for the playoffs.

[TJastal]

Just to be clear, I don't disagree with most people when they say Bonner should get less minutes (especially compared to Tiago). I'm just saying, if you had to pick one stat to "encapsulate" Bonner's overall performance, FG% is not a good stat to choose.

Use eFG% or TS% if you want a measure of offensive efficiency.

Edit: And just to be crystal clear, effective field goal percentage is not some hokey, arbitrary "model" a la Hollinger PER. It's a mathematical fact.

Nice to know about eFG% but having your PF sitting out on the perimeter will rarely result in an offensivive rebound and extra possession. This furthur negates Bonner's effectiveness.

I'd also love to know what Bonner's "eFG%" is during the postseason when teams are playing that much harder defense and closing out every shooter.

[TJastal]

This is good. Bonner is going to go on his tear later in the year and save his best for the playoffs.

:lmao

[mingus]

Matt Bonner could die tomorrow and Pop would play his corpse on Friday.

[Spurs Brazil]

That sequence in the 4th when He missed a big shot and then made the mistake on D on the next play is a perfect picture of Bonner’s career

[jgome21]

Bonner is going to have to play a good amount, like it or not, because we simply do not have enough depth. We may not like Bonner's style of play but he helps us out with spacing and even more when he can hit his 3's. I don't know why we are still complaining about Bonner, he's been on the team for a while now so we should know what we are getting out of him. We should be used to it by now.

[dunkman]

It's not that Bonner played more than Splitter. It's regular season, we only have 4 bigs. They need to share minutes. I think Pop will shorten the rotation for playoffs, depending on the matchups.

[GrandeDavid]

As long as Gregg Popovich is the coach, Matt Rebounding Menace Bonner will continue to eat up valuable minutes, particularly at the expense of far superior players like Tiago Splitter. So I'd say Bonner gets a contract extension for about another five years and averages around 25 minutes per.

[Texas_Ranger]

The idiot will get 11 mil. for the next 3 years... Spurs FO is so fucking stupid I can't believe it.... I bet we won't trade him cause he spreads the floor so we should pray he injures himself.


http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/375312_10150425152734321_812189320_8198184_1588316 948_n.jpg

[Blake]

Bonner needs to shoot at least 42-43% from 3 to effectively aid the team IMO..you could argue that even at that rate, his impact is negated by his flaws, but at least there's an argument..

If he's shooting at his current rate, 36%, which is about average(if I had to guess), his flaws are going to overshadow his strengths, obviously..

Is 42 out of 100 really that much better than 36 out of 100?