NBA Greatest Duels: Duncan vs. Nowitzki [Archive]

Amuseddaysleeper

01-20-2012, 09:33 AM

This video makes me so nostalgic. Look at how much of a beast on the boards Timmy used to be. He was an absolute monster out there.

One day, I need to bust out the 16 dvd championship box set and take a trip down memory lane.

Stalin

01-20-2012, 09:33 AM

shaq mentioned duncan not being best pf of all time, #3 behind malone and barkley, what do you guys think? i'd say timmeh is at least top5 all time, tbh

cantthinkofanything

01-20-2012, 09:46 AM

LOL at Shaq. Duncan is the most multi-dimensional PF ever. Great low post moves, quickness, shot blocking, rebounding, passing, shooting. Not to mention the rings.

How can anyone with a straight face put Malone or Barkely ahead of him. If you're starting a team and those are the three choices, any pick other than Duncan is laughable.

Duncan is the no brainer #1 PF. And somewhere ahead of Malone and Barkely is Kevin McHale.

TJastal

01-20-2012, 10:29 AM

Its crazy to see how quick he use to be. Dirk doesn't move like that either anymore

Isn't that something how Dallas won a championship last year? Kind of makes one wonder what could have been since 2007 had the FO retained/signed a decent frontcourt partner + a few good role players (like Dallas did for Dirk) for Tim Duncan.

Leetonidas

01-20-2012, 12:46 PM

shaq mentioned duncan not being best pf of all time, #3 behind malone and barkley, what do you guys think? i'd say timmeh is at least top5 all time, tbh

I thought it was strange considering he seemed to blow Timmy in the media a lot during his last few years in the league. He's probably butthurt he has as many rings as him. :lol

cherylsteele

01-20-2012, 01:09 PM

shaq mentioned duncan not being best pf of all time, #3 behind malone and barkley, what do you guys think? i'd say timmeh is at least top5 all time, tbh
1) Duncan
2) McHale
3) Malone
4) Barkley

phxspurfan

01-20-2012, 01:20 PM

shaq mentioned duncan not being best pf of all time, #3 behind malone and barkley, what do you guys think? i'd say timmeh is at least top5 all time, tbh

This comment shocked me too, especially considering Shaq hasn't been shy about praising Duncan in the past. In all fairness, it's been so long since Duncan has played at his peak level that I can understand if he rates other players equally or greater (out of sight, out of mind).

And for those with the 4 rings argument, just remember players like Steve Kerr have multiple rings. Yet Kerr is nowhere near a list of all time greats.

edit: and MailMan and Sir Charles were friggin' beasts. So I see not a lot of slight there. Malone with his MVPs and Charles with his dominant period were equally as impressive as Duncan's peak.

Horse

01-20-2012, 01:21 PM

shaq mentioned duncan not being best pf of all time, #3 behind malone and barkley, what do you guys think? i'd say timmeh is at least top5 all time, tbh
Shaq is a big-fat fucking moron,never ever know for his brain. I can't even watch inside the nba anymore, cause he won't shut the fuck up and the other guys just sit and make fun of him but he's too dumb to know it. Timmy is hands down greatest powerfoward of alltime it's not even that close.

Horse

01-20-2012, 01:24 PM

I thought it was strange considering he seemed to blow Timmy in the media a lot during his last few years in the league. He's probably butthurt he has as many rings as him. :lol
I guess technically he has as many rings as Timmy. But he had as much to do with winning in '06 as I did. I've never seen one player carry a team like wade did that year.

Stalin

01-20-2012, 01:31 PM

1) Duncan
2) McHale
3) Malone
4) Barkley

Co sign

DMC

01-20-2012, 01:32 PM

That video is a good gauge for where we need to be in reference to where we are. With that Tim Duncan, it's a different picture in the West. With those passes in the lane, that movement on offense and rotation on defense, it's a different picture in San Antonio.

Oh, and Dirk shit all over Ferry.

phxspurfan

01-20-2012, 01:41 PM

...oh and Najera is still a no-talent assclown.

cantthinkofanything

01-20-2012, 01:41 PM

1) Duncan
2) McHale
3) Malone
4) Barkley

Co sign

X2 with the following question:
What about Worthy? He never seems to be mentioned. Is he considered more of a small forward?

Including Worthy, I put him at #3. He could finish just as well as Malone but I think he was better in the post. The fact he was surrounded by so much talent had to have lowered his stats.

And for those with the 4 rings argument, just remember players like Steve Kerr have multiple rings. Yet Kerr is nowhere near a list of all time greats.

I don't think anyone is making the case for rings as the only criteria. But when you're discussing the games greats, it needs to be taken into consideration.

smrattler

01-20-2012, 01:44 PM

edit: and MailMan and Sir Charles were friggin' beasts. So I see not a lot of slight there. Malone with his MVPs and Charles with his dominant period were equally as impressive as Duncan's peak.

I almost agree with you. I don't think I'm being biased when I say that Tim at his best is better than either.

Forget career scoring. Because the fact is Tim could score 30 or 40 any night he wanted to in his peak. He proved that in the playoffs many times. So, offensively, he was at least as unstoppable as either Malone and Barkley, IMO.

Rebounding? Sure, Malone and Barkley got boards too.

What about defense? I never saw Barkley as a very good defender. Did he ever make an all NBA defensive team? Malone? His best defense was hacking you across the arm and the refs being temporarily blind... plus the flop. A guy built like that, it would take an NFL defensive end to put him on the ground. When was the last time you saw Timmy flop?

To me, that's how Tim separates himself from the other two is how he affects all parts of the game, he controls all parts of the game, and gets his team in position to win. Starts with defense.

TDomination

01-20-2012, 01:45 PM

This comment shocked me too, especially considering Shaq hasn't been shy about praising Duncan in the past. In all fairness, it's been so long since Duncan has played at his peak level that I can understand if he rates other players equally or greater (out of sight, out of mind).

And for those with the 4 rings argument, just remember players like Steve Kerr have multiple rings. Yet Kerr is nowhere near a list of all time greats.

edit: and MailMan and Sir Charles were friggin' beasts. So I see not a lot of slight there. Malone with his MVPs and Charles with his dominant period were equally as impressive as Duncan's peak.

i agree, same thing with Horry who has 7 rings, definitely doesn't mean he's an all time great.

But the biggest difference though is Duncan was the go to guy on those 4 championship spurs teams. Maybe you can make an argument that parker and manu were co-#1's for the team in 05 and 07. But even with their production, Duncan was always the anchor.

And though the championships can't always be the determining factor on who's a better player, when your talking about great players like Malone, Barkley and Duncan, you give it to the guy who was able to lead their team to the promised land. And he was able to do it multiple times.

phxspurfan

01-20-2012, 01:51 PM

1) Duncan
2) McHale
3) Malone
4) Barkley

I'm gonna get killed here but...

What about Nowitzki?

He was unguardable basically his entire career. Especially after Bruce retired :smokin

I mean sure he plays no defense but he's probably top 6.

K-State Spur

01-20-2012, 01:54 PM

And it's weird seeing Nash in a Dallas uni. How many 'ships would they have won if he had stayed...wow

I don't know...but Spurs might have gotten 1 more in 2006.

Take into account following things:

* If Nash is still in fold (& Cubes would have had to pay him) - would have limited Dallas' payroll flexibility over next couple of years.

* Also, as good as Nash is, he wasn't quite the elite PG until he got into D'Antoni's system. He would have been somewhat restricted under Avery.

* Even at Nash's peak, Parker has always had great success against him.

* If Nash is still there, Dallas doesn't have cap room to sign Jet and probably doesn't make trade with Washington that brings them Stack & Harris. Harris gave Parker fits and Stack/Jet were Dallas' most reliable scorers after Dirk.

* Dallas also may not take on Dampier - who, despite being vastly overpaid, gave them their best option to guard Duncan (without sacrificing all sense of offense like Diop) for major minutes.

cantthinkofanything

01-20-2012, 01:57 PM

I'm gonna get killed here but...

What about Nowitzki?

He was unguardable basically his entire career. Especially after Bruce retired :smokin

I mean sure he plays no defense but he's probably top 6.

I think it's fair and he should be in the discussion but the defense is the key separator. And if it comes down to picking one to start a team with, I'd pick Dirk over Malone.

Horse

01-20-2012, 01:57 PM

I'm gonna get killed here but...

What about Nowitzki?

He was unguardable basically his entire career. Especially after Bruce retired :smokin

I mean sure he plays no defense but he's probably top 6.
His whole career? Are you serious? For many years you just had to get physical with him and he disappeared. You can't do that anymore that's what makes him great now.

K-State Spur

01-20-2012, 02:00 PM

shaq mentioned duncan not being best pf of all time, #3 behind malone and barkley, what do you guys think? i'd say timmeh is at least top5 all time, tbh

Considering that Barkley himself (who has never been shy about touting his own abilities) puts Duncan at #1, that speaks a lot for that comparison.

Malone was a stat compiler for most of his career, but never a dominant force at either end when it mattered the most. Championships aren't everything, but despite having decent talent around him, he never won anything despite playing most of his career against some the weakest fields at the top of the league (outside of the MJ Bulls, but it was near the end before the Jazz ever took a crack at them).

K-State Spur

01-20-2012, 02:01 PM

1) Duncan
2) McHale
3) Malone
4) Barkley

Too high on McHale. Great player, but only peaked for 4-5 years. When the margin is so slim among these players*, that matters.

* Outside of Duncan. I really feel that he has separated himself from the pack.

cantthinkofanything

01-20-2012, 02:02 PM

His whole career? Are you serious? For many years you just had to get physical with him and he disappeared. You can't do that anymore that's what makes him great now.

Taking all that into account, he's somewhere in the top 10 I think.

cantthinkofanything

01-20-2012, 02:04 PM

X2 with the following question:
What about Worthy? He never seems to be mentioned. Is he considered more of a small forward?

Bumping myself because I haven't seen any comments. I'd really like to know why Worthy is almost never in the discussion of best PFs.

Sean Cagney

01-20-2012, 02:06 PM

Forget Shaq and he should know better, Tim used to light him up several times (His teams too). BTW Hakeem is better all times than you Shaq, several C's are better IMO. Tim is the best PF ever and this film right here shows it (He was so spry and yes heads forget how spry now so like someone said they underrate Tim at his peak now). I miss this Duncan here, those were the days.

smrattler

01-20-2012, 02:08 PM

Bumping myself because I haven't seen any comments. I'd really like to know why Worthy is almost never in the discussion of best PFs.

Worthy was a SF most of his career I think, at least during his peak.

The ADMIRAL 50

01-20-2012, 02:17 PM

:lol Cuban's haircut/hockey jersey at the 7:08 mark :lol

K-State Spur

01-20-2012, 02:29 PM

What about Worthy? He never seems to be mentioned. Is he considered more of a small forward?

In addition to being a SF, Worthy never made 1st or 2nd team all-NBA. Was only the 3rd or 4th most important player on the Showtime teams. And he was washed up by the time he was 31.

Stalin

01-20-2012, 02:34 PM

could add dirk at #5, tbh
im sure that wouldn't be that far of

smrattler

01-20-2012, 02:50 PM

cantthinkofanything

01-20-2012, 02:53 PM

Decent list here, compiled from multiple sources, I can't argue with it. Other than Rodman maybe, I never thought of his THAT high:

http://www.hoopsmanifesto.com/articles/basketball/top-10-nba-power-forwards-of-all-time.html

I checked a bunch of top 10 lists too and I was suprised that Rodman was on just about every one.

DesignatedT

01-20-2012, 03:11 PM

Duncan = GOAT

c whata11

01-20-2012, 06:49 PM

"i love that gregg popovich did not downsize his team when don nelson went small... stay big."
lol

lefty

01-20-2012, 06:52 PM

Fucking Manu :pctoss

Sean Cagney

01-20-2012, 07:18 PM

:cry Dirk used to be an athletic nig

Gone are the days of him sprinting down the court with the ball and swishing a pull up FT line jumper. Now it's all patient yet still deadly effective. Damn, they've both lost a step (to be generous).

Yeah, age and mileage will do that to anyone that big (Or anyone for that matter) :( I feel ya man, atleast Dirk is still at an all star level or near it (This year he fell off some so far).

BTW that had to be game one 03, the lead they had just went away and the Spurs were famous for blowing games they had no business blowing (Game one against PHX and nearly a HUGE game 5 against LA which would have lost it, game 5 Dallas too), they used to flat out drive nuts in this era with that crap :lmao:lmao

Trill Clinton

01-20-2012, 07:32 PM

Duncan = GOAT

......................

cherylsteele

01-20-2012, 11:47 PM

Bumping myself because I haven't seen any comments. I'd really like to know why Worthy is almost never in the discussion of best PFs.
I always thought he was a small forward, a great one though.

MmP

01-24-2012, 07:32 PM

Watch two minutes of this video and tears will start running down your face

TC8NapbDkes&feature=related

Tim was a beast in every end of the court no wonder why we won so much

SpurNation

01-24-2012, 08:06 PM

Watch two minutes of this video and tears will start running down your face

TC8NapbDkes&feature=related

Tim was a beast in every end of the court no wonder why we won so much

Don't know to thank you or curse you for bringing up this vintage footage when Timmy was at his elite. Is there another? There hasn't been since he came into the league.

THE GREATEST POWER FORWARD TO EVER PLAY THE GAME.

The Spurs cannot duplicate what they had in Tim Duncan in his prime no matter how many or top draft picks they get in the future.

Dammit man...you're a tease...:toast Thanks for the memories.

Spursfan092120

01-24-2012, 08:09 PM

Watch two minutes of this video and tears will start running down your face

TC8NapbDkes&feature=related

Tim was a beast in every end of the court no wonder why we won so much

The first shot looked a lot like the game winner against New Orleans. He looked young again last night.

Proxy

01-24-2012, 09:37 PM

Watch two minutes of this video and tears will start running down your face

TC8NapbDkes&feature=related

Tim was a beast in every end of the court no wonder why we won so much

I didn't know this vid existed... thanks. I need a tissue.

lmbebo

01-24-2012, 10:55 PM

therealtruth

01-25-2012, 02:11 AM

wow. forget what Duncan used to be like.

Always wished we could have seen an 03 timmy with a 95 robinson. Dominance.

Even Manu and Parker look real young there.

Manu has a full head of hear :D

Anyone catch the comment from JVG about how he liked it when Pop stayed with his bigs against Nelson when he went small ball

There's two sides of the court. If a team is going small they're trying to speed it up but if you stay big you're guaranteed more rebounds and paint scoring. Giving up alot of second chances is a recipe for getting beat.