Obama Risks Alienating Republicans By Using Facts

[boutons_deux]

Obama Risks Alienating Republicans By Using Facts

In what some critics are calling the most radial tactic ever employed in a State of the Union Address, President Barack Obama risked alienating congressional Republicans last night by repeatedly using facts.

Mr. Obama stirred controversy throughout the speech with his relentless references to facts, data, and things that have actually happened, all long considered the third rail of American politics.

As the President made reference to tax rates and unemployment numbers, as well as sixteen separate mentions of Osama bin Laden, congressional Republicans’ blood began to boil.

After the speech, a furious Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell told reporters, “It’s been a longstanding tradition in our politics not to use facts in a State of the Union Address, a tradition the President chose to ignore in an outrageous way tonight. I won’t stand for it and the American people won’t stand for it.”

“We want to work with the President for the good of the American people,” added House Speaker John Boehner. “But he’s going to have to take facts off the table. That’s a deal-breaker for us.”

The President did not mention any of his GOP presidential rivals by name in his speech, but at one point said that government should be “leaner,” a blatant jab at former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

=======

Borowitz is great. Intelligent, clever wittiness humor for those of us smart enough to appreciate it.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120125/D9SFO48G0.html

FACT CHECK: Obama pushes plans that flopped before

Jan 24, 11:16 PM (ET)

By CALVIN WOODWARD


WASHINGTON (AP) - It was a wish list, not a to-do list.
President Barack Obama laid out an array of plans in his State of the Union speech as if his hands weren't so tied by political realities. There can be little more than wishful thinking behind his call to end oil industry subsidies - something he could not get through a Democratic Congress, much less today's divided Congress, much less in this election year.
And there was more recycling, in an even more forbidding climate than when the ideas were new: He pushed for an immigration overhaul that he couldn't get past Democrats, permanent college tuition tax credits that he asked for a year ago, and familiar discouragements for companies that move overseas.
A look at Obama's rhetoric Tuesday night and how it fits with the facts and political circumstances:
OBAMA: "We have subsidized oil companies for a century. That's long enough. It's time to end the taxpayer giveaways to an industry that's rarely been more profitable, and double-down on a clean energy industry that's never been more promising."
THE FACTS: This is at least Obama's third run at stripping subsidies from the oil industry. Back when fellow Democrats formed the House and Senate majorities, he sought $36.5 billion in tax increases on oil and gas companies over the next decade, but Congress largely ignored the request. He called again to end such tax breaks in last year's State of the Union speech. And he's now doing it again, despite facing a wall of opposition from Republicans who want to spur domestic oil and gas production and oppose tax increases generally.
---
OBAMA: "Our health care law relies on a reformed private market, not a government program."
THE FACTS: That's only half true. About half of the more than 30 million uninsured Americans expected to gain coverage through the health care law will be enrolled in a government program. Medicaid, the federal-state program for low-income people, will be expanded starting in 2014 to cover childless adults living near the poverty line.
The other half will be enrolled in private health plans through new state-based insurance markets. But many of them will be receiving federal subsidies to make their premiums more affordable. And that's a government program, too.
Starting in 2014 most Americans will be required to carry health coverage, either through an employer, by buying their own plan, or through a government program.
---
OBAMA, asking Congress to pay for construction projects: "Take the money we're no longer spending at war, use half of it to pay down our debt, and use the rest to do some nation-building right here at home."
THE FACTS: The idea of taking war "savings" to pay for other programs is budgetary sleight of hand. For one thing, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been largely financed through borrowing, so stopping the wars doesn't create a pool of ready cash, just less debt. And the savings appear to be based at least in part on inflated war spending estimates for future years.
---
OBAMA: "Through the power of our diplomacy a world that was once divided about how to deal with Iran's nuclear program now stands as one."
THE FACTS: The world is still divided over how to deal with Iran's disputed nuclear program, and even over whether the nuclear program is a problem at all.
It is true that the U.S., Europe and other nations have agreed to apply the strictest economic sanctions yet on Iran later this year. But the global sanctions net has holes, because some of Iran's large oil trading partners won't go along. China, a major purchaser of Iran's crude, isn't part of the new sanctions and, together with Russia, stopped the United Nations from applying similarly tough penalties.
---
OBAMA: "Tonight, I want to speak about how we move forward, and lay out a blueprint for an economy that's built to last - an economy built on American manufacturing, American energy, skills for American workers, and a renewal of American values."
THE FACTS: Economists do see manufacturing growth as a necessary component of any U.S. recovery. U.S. manufacturing output climbed 0.9 percent in December, the biggest gain since December 2010. Yet Obama's apparent vision of a nation once again propelled by manufacturing - a vision shared by many Republicans - may already have slipped into the past.
Over generations, the economy has become ever more driven by services; not since 1975 has the U.S. had a surplus in merchandise trade, which covers trade in goods, including manufactured and farm goods. About 90 percent of American workers are employed in the service sector, a profound shift in the nature of the workforce over many decades.
The overall trade deficit through the first 11 months of 2011 ran at an annual rate of nearly $600 billion, up almost 12 percent from the year before.
---
OBAMA: "The Taliban's momentum has been broken, and some troops in Afghanistan have begun to come home."
THE FACTS: Obama is more sanguine about progress in Afghanistan than his own intelligence apparatus. The latest National Intelligence Estimate on Afghanistan warns that the Taliban will grow stronger, using fledgling talks with the U.S. to gain credibility and stall until U.S. troops leave, while continuing to fight for more territory. The classified assessment, described to The Associated Press by officials who have seen it, says the Afghan government hasn't been able to establish credibility with its people, and predicts the Taliban and warlords will largely control the countryside.
---
OBAMA: "On the day I took office, our auto industry was on the verge of collapse. Some even said we should let it die. With a million jobs at stake, I refused to let that happen. In exchange for help, we demanded responsibility. We got workers and automakers to settle their differences. We got the industry to retool and restructure. Today, General Motors is back on top as the world's number one automaker. Chrysler has grown faster in the U.S. than any major car company. Ford is investing billions in U.S. plants and factories."
THE FACTS: He left out some key details. The bailout of General Motors and Chrysler began under Republican President George W. Bush. Obama picked up the ball, earmarked more money, and finished the job. But Ford never asked for a federal bailout and never got one.
---
OBAMA: "We can also spur energy innovation with new incentives. The differences in this chamber may be too deep right now to pass a comprehensive plan to fight climate change. But there's no reason why Congress shouldn't at least set a clean energy standard that creates a market for innovation."
THE FACTS: With this statement, Obama was renewing a call he made last year to require 80 percent of the nation's electricity to come from clean energy sources by 2035, including nuclear, natural gas and so-called clean coal. He did not put that percentage in his speech but White House background papers show that it remains his goal.
But this Congress has yet to introduce a bill to make that goal a reality, and while legislation may be introduced this year, it is unlikely to become law with a Republican-controlled House that loathes mandates.
---
OBAMA: "Right now, because of loopholes and shelters in the tax code, a quarter of all millionaires pay lower tax rates than millions of middle-class households."
THE FACTS: It's true that a minority of millionaires pay a lower tax rate than some lower-income people. On average, though, wealthy people pay taxes at a much higher rate than middle-income taxpayers.
Obama's claim comes from a Congressional Research Service report that compared federal taxes paid by people making less than $100,000 with those paid by people making more than $1 million. About 10 percent of families with incomes under $100,000 paid more than 26.5 percent in federal income, payroll and corporate taxes. And about a quarter of millionaire taxpayers paid a rate lower than that.
---
OBAMA: "We can't bring back every job that's left our shores.... Tonight, my message to business leaders is simple: Ask yourselves what you can do to bring jobs back to your country, and your country will do everything we can to help you succeed."
FACT CHECK: Many of the jobs U.S. companies have created overseas won't return because they were never in the United States in the first place.
As Obama said in his speech, U.S. workers have become more productive and labor costs have fallen.
But there are powerful forces pushing the other way: Many of the overseas jobs in U.S. companies weren't transferred from the U.S. They were created in fast-growing markets in Latin America, Asia and elsewhere to serve customers in those markets. Companies in the Standard & Poor's 500 index now earn more than half of their revenue from overseas.
That has fueled more job creation abroad. U.S. multinationals cut more than 800,000 jobs in the United States from 2000 to 2009, according the Commerce Department. They added 2.9 million overseas in the same period.
---
OBAMA: "Anyone who tells you that America is in decline or that our influence has waned doesn't know what they're talking about ... That's not how people feel from Tokyo to Berlin; from Cape Town to Rio; where opinions of America are higher than they've been in years."
THE FACTS: Obama left out Arab and Muslim nations, where popular opinion of the U.S. appears to have gone downhill or remained unchanged after the spring 2011 reformist uprisings in the Middle East. A Pew Research Center survey in May found that in predominantly Muslim countries such as Turkey, Jordan and Pakistan, views of the U.S. were worse than a year earlier. In Pakistan, a major recipient of U.S. foreign aid that went unmentioned in Obama's speech, just 11 percent of respondents said they held a positive view of the United States.
---

[hater]

good for Obama

[boutons_deux]

"U.S. workers have become more productive and labor costs have fallen"

millions have been fired, the remaining employees are worked much harder, longer (and intimidated to STFU and not to get sick, or be fired), and their salaries and benefits are stagnant or reduced.

[cheguevara]

Ron Paul Responds To Obama's
State Of The Union Speech



"Tonight, President Obama once again showed that he does not represent the fundamental change this country needs. Instead of offering solutions to the problems our country faces, the President was intent on delivering a campaign speech, further dealing in the typical Washington political gamesmanship that has gotten us exactly nowhere close to improving the lives of the American people.

"In a speech where much of the rhetoric was devoted to job creation, it was strange that President Obama would brag about his job-destroying national health care plan, Obamacare, and the Dodd-Frank bill, which, contrary to the President's claims, guarantees future taxpayer bailouts of large institutions. Unfortunately, President Obama's 'job creation' policies amount to little more than continuing to allow government bureaucrats to pick winners and losers, which is a recipe for continued economic stagnation.

"President Obama claims to want an economy where everyone gets a fair shot, everyone does their fair share, and everyone plays by the same set of rules. Yet he remains committed to the same old system of debt, deficits, bailouts, and cronyism that created our economic problems. The President speaks of giving us energy independence from unstable nations, yet he refuses to allow the type of development needed to achieve this goal, while at the same time his administration hands out favors to the politically connected - those given to the likes of Solyndra, who fail to produce jobs or energy but succeed in ripping off the taxpayers.

"Of course, President Obama refuses to even mention the role the Federal Reserve plays in creating an economic system where some are denied a fair shot or even to support my efforts at bringing transparency to the Federal Reserve. Also not mentioned by President Obama is the very crucial need for reining in spending and balancing the federal budget. What is called by some 'the greatest threat to our national security' seems not to be of great importance to this President, although I, like many Americans, believe it to be cause for immediate measures, like the $1 trillion in spending cuts that would take place in my first year as President under my Plan to Restore America.

[boutons_deux]

"very crucial need for reining in spending and balancing the federal budget"

it's not crucial now. Spending govt money (it's GREAT TIME for the Fed to borrow money because bond rates are so low) to get the economy and jobs way up (and tax revenues up) and solving the mortgage crisis are what is now, and has been for 2+ years, crucial. RP's financial platform is fantasy, is destructive, and killing the Fed won't ever happen.

[cheguevara]

yup, solution to every problem is to print more money :rolleyes

[boutons_deux]

you said it, I didn't.

[DarrinS]

Do people pay to see that guy's stand up?

Fat jokes? Really?

[cheguevara]

I miss this guy

XDwq4zDARkk

[boutons_deux]

When Fact Checkers Go Bad... Very Bad

OMG... this is beyond preposterous.

Politifact -- the self-anointed fact checkers -- grade this statement from the president's speech tonight as "half-true":

In the last 22 months, businesses have created more than three million jobs. Last year, they created the most jobs since 2005.

This is not half true or two-thirds true. It is just true.

So why, I ask you, why do they go where they go? Because of this:

In his remarks, Obama described the damage to the economy, including losing millions of jobs "before our policies were in full effect." Then he describe [sic!] the subsequent job increases, essentially taking credit for the job growth. But labor economists tell us that no mayor or governor or president deserves all the claim or all the credit for changes in employment.

Really? That's it? That makes the fact not a fact? I've seen some very useful work by these folks, but between this and this, Politifact just can't be trusted. Full stop.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jared-bernstein/when-fact-checkers-go-bad_b_1230513.html?view=print&comm_ref=false

[mercos]

It was very much a campaign speech and I think President Obama did a good job on it. He struck a positive tone and was not hyper partisan. He took his shots at Republicans, but that was to be expected. I liked the idea of a trade enforcement unit and a minimum tax on American companies making profits overseas. The likelihood of any of these ideas seeing the light of day is slim to none, but it was a good kickoff for his reelection effort.

[CosmicCowboy]

It was very much a campaign speech and I think President Obama did a good job on it. He struck a positive tone and was not hyper partisan. He took his shots at Republicans, but that was to be expected. I liked the idea of a trade enforcement unit and a minimum tax on American companies making profits overseas. The likelihood of any of these ideas seeing the light of day is slim to none, but it was a good kickoff for his reelection effort.

Agreed...it was nothing but a campaign speech...hitting poll driven populist hot buttons with no chance of being enacted into legislation...guess he thinks we are stupid...

[George Gervin's Afro]

Agreed...it was nothing but a campaign speech...hitting poll driven populist hot buttons with no chance of being enacted into legislation...guess he thinks we are stupid...

so the GOP talking of cooperating is bullshit also.. are you outraged?


Whenever I hear Mitch McConnell speak nmy IQ drops..

[CosmicCowboy]

so the GOP talking of cooperating is bullshit also.. are you outraged?


Whenever I hear Mitch McConnell speak nmy IQ drops..

I wouldn't say that outraged is accurate but I don't really approve of their MO either...both have their flaws...but if you want to defend last nights campaign speech have at it...

BTW, you must have listened to McConnell speak a lot...

[George Gervin's Afro]

I wouldn't say that outraged is accurate but I don't really approve of their MO either...both have their flaws...but if you want to defend last nights campaign speech have at it...

BTW, you must have listened to McConnell speak a lot...

I am dumber for it.. as is the entire GOP

[TeyshaBlue]

I am dumber for it..

You need to stop listening now!:tongue

[z0sa]

lol it's funny watching boutons buy into bullshit when that's all that he preaches against

[JoeChalupa]

Fact is that Obama may just pull this one out although I'll still be shocked.

[boutons_deux]

what bullshit am I buying into?

The biggest bullshit is that you people think a Willard Gecko or Noot or any Repug asshole would be better. 8 years of dubya and dickhead, and $Ts in unnecessary debt and destruction just evaporate from your fucking heads.

[Winehole23]

Rather than proposing a cleaning-up of the tax code (http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/289232/bruce-bartlett-president-obamas-tax-reform-proposals-sotu-reihan-salam#), Mr Obama is proposing several new tax preferences. He wants a special deduction available only to companies engaged in manufacturing to be doubled, but most tax specialists think this should just be abolished. He’s in favour of extending a tuition tax credit, which mostly gets capitalised into higher tuition fees and does little to improve access to higher education for middle class families. There’s also special tax relief (http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/289232/bruce-bartlett-president-obamas-tax-reform-proposals-sotu-reihan-salam#) for small businesses “that are raising wages and creating good jobs” that he wants to introduce even though no one knows how to target such incentives and past efforts have failed. Finally, he would like a new tax credit for “clean energy” and tax credits for companies hiring military veterans.


At the same time, Mr Obama proposes a variety of gimmicky new tax penalties, to punish companies that move jobs overseas for example. He wants to force every US-based multinational corporation to pay a minimum tax, and made individuals earning at least $1m per year to pay at least 30 per cent of their income in tax.


Whatever the merits of these specific tax proposals (http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/289232/bruce-bartlett-president-obamas-tax-reform-proposals-sotu-reihan-salam#), they do not move towards tax reform. They move in the opposite direction, by cluttering up the tax code with still more special tax breaks for activities in current political favour and penalties for individuals and businesses in disfavor. This is exactly the sort of thing that created America’s current tax mess.
http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/289232/bruce-bartlett-president-obamas-tax-reform-proposals-sotu-reihan-salam

[Winehole23]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jan/25/barack-obama/have-private-sector-jobs-grown-22-months-best-annu/

[Wild Cobra]

Obama Risks Alienating Republicans By Using Facts

In what some critics are calling the most radial tactic ever employed in a State of the Union Address, President Barack Obama risked alienating congressional Republicans last night by repeatedly using facts.

Mr. Obama stirred controversy throughout the speech with his relentless references to facts, data, and things that have actually happened, all long considered the third rail of American politics.

As the President made reference to tax rates and unemployment numbers, as well as sixteen separate mentions of Osama bin Laden, congressional Republicans’ blood began to boil.

After the speech, a furious Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell told reporters, “It’s been a longstanding tradition in our politics not to use facts in a State of the Union Address, a tradition the President chose to ignore in an outrageous way tonight. I won’t stand for it and the American people won’t stand for it.”

“We want to work with the President for the good of the American people,” added House Speaker John Boehner. “But he’s going to have to take facts off the table. That’s a deal-breaker for us.”

The President did not mention any of his GOP presidential rivals by name in his speech, but at one point said that government should be “leaner,” a blatant jab at former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

=======

Borowitz is great. Intelligent, clever wittiness humor for those of us smart enough to appreciate it.

Why only one source reporting it? Where can I verify the minority leader quote? I really have a hard time believing he said that.

[ElNono]

I thought the speech was great. Don't think it's going anywhere, but I thought he hit the nail in the head of a few talking points (ie: ending Oil subsidies). He was passionate and articulate and I didn't think he was overly aggressive towards the GOP inaction.

On the other hand it was really hard to listen to the GOP response from the Indiana governor. Dude barely blinked and eye, looked like he was reading from the TOTUS all the way through, and basically was more of the same deficit boogeyman chatter.

I agree that the deficit is a problem, but I also want to hear what they're willing to compromise on so we have a functioning government all the way to November.

[Winehole23]

House Republicans are furious at the White House after being scooped by The New Yorker.

Leaders on the Energy and Commerce panel wrote to President Obama's current and former chiefs of staff this week demanding that the administration turn over internal documents detailing its negotiations with industry groups during the healthcare reform debate.

Republicans have been asking the White House to turn over such internal memos for more than two years and are miffed that political reporter Ryan Lizza was able to obtain some of them for an article (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/01/30/120130fa_fact_lizza) entitled "The Obama memos."

"These materials reference both the policies and decisions utilized in the health care reform process, and this is substantive information our oversight duties require us to review," the letter (http://republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/Media/file/Letters/112th/012412whitehouse.pdf) says. "Furthermore, it is outrageous that despite our multiple efforts to obtain information about the negotiations and deals entered into by the White House, Congress has only been provided with material previously made publicly available, while the administration selectively provides such information to The New Yorker," the letter says.

Lizza does not say in his article how he got the memos.
http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/206619-house-republicans-miffed-at-administration-for-sharing-long-sought-healthcare-memos-with-magazine

[CosmicCowboy]

Why only one source reporting it? Where can I verify the minority leader quote? I really have a hard time believing he said that.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Winehole23]

instead of following the trail he ate the crumbs

[Wild Cobra]

Don'ty get me wrong. I found multiple links, but Borowitz was the source for all of them.

I simply cannot believe the minority leader would say what he was quoted as saying. Who is that stupid, besides Obama?

[Jacob1983]

Why can't Obama just admit that he has become what he said he wasn't going to be as president? He told us back in 2008 that if we voted for John McCain that we would get a 3rd term of Bush. Obama is basically serving Bush's 3rd term. Why can't he have some balls and own up to that shit?

[CosmicCowboy]

Don'ty get me wrong. I found multiple links, but Borowitz was the source for all of them.

I simply cannot believe the minority leader would say what he was quoted as saying. Who is that stupid, besides Obama?

:lmao

It was satire. Like reading the onion.

[Wild Cobra]

:lmao

It was satire. Like reading the onion.
OK, Fine. Not someone I'm familiar with.

Have you seen how many google links it is now? I wonder how many people believed the story rather than disbelieve like me.

LOL...

I guess I should say good job Borowitz, for exposing the libtards that will treat that as fact.

[clambake]

why don't you admit that once again you got burned?

[Wild Cobra]

why don't you admit that once again you got burned?
I wouldn't call that getting burned. I will admit I am ignorant of the person writing the piece. I will admit to not understanding the joke at first.

Getting burned though?

In your dreams.

[clambake]

you'd need courage for that. we get it.

[Wild Cobra]

you'd need courage for that. we get it.
How can you twist that?

I saw what was an obvious misrepresentation of the truth, and I said so.

[clambake]

:lmao no, you demanded confirmation.

i'll stop. everyone but you can see it.

[Wild Cobra]

:lmao no, you demanded confirmation.

i'll stop. everyone but you can see it.
Yes, I understand. You however have to remember I don't have a twisted mind like you do, so I don't relate so well.