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DarrinS
01-25-2012, 01:33 PM
http://blog.lib.umn.edu/cspg/smartpolitics/2012/01/my_message_is_simple_obamas_so.php





Obama's SOTU addresses have the lowest average Flesch-Kincaid score of any modern president; Obama owns three of the six lowest-scoring addresses since FDR

For the third consecutive State of the Union Address, Barack Obama spoke in clear, plain terms.

And for the third straight Address, the President's speech was written at an eighth-grade level.

In Obama's own words: "My message is simple."

But was it too simplistic?

A Smart Politics study of the 70 orally delivered State of the Union Addresses since 1934 finds the text of Obama's 2012 speech to have tallied the third lowest score on the Flesch-Kincaid readability test, at an 8.4 grade level.

Obama also delivered the second lowest scoring address in 2011 (at an 8.1 grade level) and the sixth lowest in 2010 (at an 8.8 grade level)

The Flesch-Kincaid test is designed to assess the readability level of written text, with a formula that translates the score to a U.S. grade level. Longer sentences and sentences utilizing words with more syllables produce higher scores. Shorter sentences and sentences incorporating more monosyllabic words yield lower scores.

Smart Politics ran the Flesch-Kincaid test on each of the last 70 State of the Union Addresses that were delivered orally by presidents before a Joint Session of Congress since Franklin Roosevelt.

Excluded from analysis were five written addresses (by Truman in 1946 and 1953, Eisenhower in 1961, Nixon in 1973, and Carter in 1981) and two addresses that were delivered orally, but not by the President himself (Roosevelt in 1945 and Eisenhower in 1956).

The vast majority of State of the Union speeches were delivered in writing prior to FDR.

Each of Obama's three addresses are among only seven of 70 in the modern era that were written shy of a 9th grade level, and among the six that have averaged less than 17 words per sentence.

Obama's 2012 and 2010 addresses averaged 16.6 words per sentence with his 2011 address coming in at 16.8.

Other low-scoring addresses on the Flesch-Kincaid scale over the decades are George H.W. Bush's 1992 address, Harry Truman's 1951 and 1952 addresses, and Lyndon Johnson's 1965 address.

Obama's speeches are a continuation of a general pattern that finds as State of the Union Addresses have perhaps become more and more political, they have been written more and more simplistically.

With three addresses under his belt, President Obama has the lowest average Flesch-Kincaid score for State of the Union addresses of any modern president. Obama's average grade-level score of 8.4 is more than two grades lower than the 10.7 grade average for the other 67 addresses written by his 12 predecessors.

But even though the last five presidents have the lowest five collective scores on this readability test, Obama's speeches were written at a much lower grade level than those recorded by Ronald Reagan (10.3) and George W. Bush (10.4).

The highest scoring presidents are John Kennedy at 12.0, Dwight Eisenhower at 11.9, and Richard Nixon at 11.5.

Average Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level for Orally Delivered State of the Union Addresses by Presidents Since FDR



Rank President Words per sentence Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level
1 John Kennedy 23.8 12.0
2 Dwight Eisenhower 20.5 11.9
3 Richard Nixon 23.5 11.5
4 Franklin Roosevelt 24.3 11.4
5 Gerald Ford 19.3 11.2
6 Jimmy Carter 19.7 10.8
7 Harry Truman 18.9 10.5
8 Lyndon Johnson 20.3 10.4
8 George W. Bush 19.0 10.4
10 Ronald Reagan 19.6 10.3
11 Bill Clinton 19.0 9.5
12 George H.W. Bush 17.4 8.6
13 Barack Obama 16.7 8.4


Data compiled by Smart Politics.
Dragging down Obama's Flesch-Kincaid score are the series of short sentences written - perhaps for dramatic effect - on a number of policy issues.

On the state of the American auto industry:

"We bet on American workers. We bet on American ingenuity. And tonight, the American auto industry is back."

On the need to rebuild the nation's infrastructure:

"So much of America needs to be rebuilt. We've got crumbling roads and bridges. A power grid that wastes too much energy."

On the importance of passing a payroll tax break extension:

"There are plenty of ways to get this done. So let's agree right here, right now: No side issues. No drama. Pass the payroll tax cut without delay."

On remembering the mission to kill Osama Bin Laden:

"All that mattered that day was the mission. No one thought about politics. No one thought about themselves."

And, generally, on the 'greatness' of America:

"No one built this country on their own. This Nation is great because we built it together. This Nation is great because we worked as a team. This Nation is great because we get each other's backs."

Of course, depending on one's view of the intended audience of these addresses, a simply written speech such as the one delivered by Obama Tuesday evening might be viewed positively or negatively.

If the audience is Congress, as was the original, intended purpose of the speech, then brief policy outlines, episodic illustrations, and short sound bites are probably not very instructive.

If, however, the intended audience is the American people, then perhaps simply-written speeches - in the age of Twitter and texting - are arguably more effective ways to translate the president's vision of the State of the Union to the average citizen.

Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level for Orally Delivered State of the Union Addresses, 1934-2012



President Words per sentence Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level
Truman 1947 20.1 12.0
Roosevelt 1940 26.3 12.0
Roosevelt 1938 27.0 12.0
Roosevelt 1937 26.1 12.0
Roosevelt 1935 25.5 12.0
Roosevelt 1934 30.3 12.0
Nixon 1974 25.5 12.0
Kennedy 1963 23.8 12.0
Kennedy 1962 23.1 12.0
Kennedy 1961 24.4 12.0
Eisenhower 1960 21.7 12.0
Eisenhower 1957 21.4 12.0
Eisenhower 1955 21.1 12.0
Eisenhower 1954 20.6 12.0
Eisenhower 1953 19.9 12.0
Ford 1977 21.8 11.9
Bush 2005 21.6 11.8
Roosevelt 1939 22.2 11.7
Eisenhower 1958 19.9 11.7
Truman 1950 21.9 11.6
Nixon 1971 23.3 11.6
Johnson 1964 24.1 11.6
Eisenhower 1959 18.9 11.4
Reagan 1983 21.2 11.3
Roosevelt 1936 23.0 11.2
Carter 1980 20.7 11.2
Carter 1979 20.2 11.2
Roosevelt 1941 22.2 11.1
Nixon 1972 22.9 11.1
Nixon 1970 22.3 11.1
Roosevelt 1944 21.5 11.0
Reagan 1988 21.6 11.0
Ford 1975 18.3 11.0
Truman 1949 18.3 10.9
Roosevelt 1943 22.8 10.9
Reagan 1982 20.5 10.9
Johnson 1966 21.5 10.8
Bush 2006 19.2 10.8
Truman 1948 18.4 10.7
Johnson 1969 21.2 10.7
Ford 1976 17.9 10.7
Johnson 1967 19.9 10.4
Bush 2003 18.2 10.4
Johnson 1968 18.9 10.3
Bush 2008 18.4 10.2
Bush 2004 18.8 10.2
Clinton 1999 19.1 10.0
Carter 1978 18.2 9.9
Reagan 1987 18.6 9.8
Reagan 1986 19.8 9.8
Bush 2007 19.3 9.8
Reagan 1985 18.6 9.7
Clinton 1998 19.7 9.7
Roosevelt 1942 20.4 9.6
Clinton 1997 19.5 9.6
Reagan 1984 16.9 9.3
Clinton 2000 18.3 9.3
Clinton 1996 17.7 9.3
Clinton 1995 20.0 9.3
Bush 2002 17.8 9.3
Bush 1991 17.4 9.2
Clinton 1994 18.6 9.0
Bush 1990 18.9 9.0
Truman 1952 18.1 8.9
Obama 2010 16.6 8.8
Truman 1951 16.3 8.6
Johnson 1965 16.1 8.6
Obama 2012 16.6 8.4

Obama 2011 16.8 8.1
Bush 1992 15.8 7.5
Average 20.5 10.6

cheguevara
01-25-2012, 01:38 PM
good idea given average intelligence of a person is around 8th grade level.

FromWayDowntown
01-25-2012, 01:42 PM
If this is intended as criticism, I'm not sure this is a very good thing to criticize.

In an era where societal disparities are substantial and growing, speaking to the whole country rather than to an educated elite seems reasonable.

boutons_deux
01-25-2012, 01:47 PM
We all know Americans are pretty stupid, lazy, uneducated, functionally illiterate.

An speaker always adapts to his audience, least common denominator.

At least Barry has to speak down, with skill, to the dumbfucks, while dubya struggled to speak up to the dumbfucks. Dubya knew how "put food on his family"

cheguevara
01-25-2012, 01:50 PM
"send me da mothafuckin bill"

CosmicCowboy
01-25-2012, 01:58 PM
If this is intended as criticism, I'm not sure this is a very good thing to criticize.

In an era where societal disparities are substantial and growing, speaking to the whole country rather than to an educated elite seems reasonable.

X2

I read this before it was posted and thought it was a non-story.

EVAY
01-25-2012, 02:00 PM
This is nothing more than what USA Today does every day in every market. They write 'to the 6th grade level' because that is the common denominator of American reading ability.

If you want to reach the masses, speak to them in words they understand.

EVAY
01-25-2012, 02:01 PM
Come to think of it, maybe his speechwriters wrote it at this level because his primary audience was Congress.

EVAY
01-25-2012, 02:02 PM
I remember being told when I joined a huge Corporation from Academia that I had to write very differently than I had been and keep any summary to only page, or 'else their lips get tired from reading'.

z0sa
01-25-2012, 02:16 PM
Most public writing is done, or aimed, at around the 5th grade level. At least that's what I was taught.

boutons_deux
01-25-2012, 02:42 PM
The War on Employees is long, blatant, and ongoing.

Mitch Daniels' State of the Union Response Shows GOP Priority: Beating Up on Workers

the Republicans would choose somebody who is in open war with his constituents and his citizens and put him up as the national speaker for the Republican Party.”

Daniels “has done a phenomenal job of coming off as an average Hoosier, where he rolls around in an RV and wears a flannel shirt, but underneath, he has sold off our resources, he has privatized our welfare system…He is in the midst of busting unions and taking away our right to collectively bargain by making Right to Work his number one legislative priority.”

“Right to Work” is the deceptive title for a right-wing law attacking unions’ ability to wield power and stay solvent. Every remaining GOP presidential candidate has endorsed it, but none of them has pulled off what Daniels may be about to: making this 1% bill a statewide law.

http://www.alternet.org/story/153886/mitch_daniels?page=entire

CosmicCowboy
01-25-2012, 02:49 PM
Right to work has certainly been beneficial for Texas....The SA unemployment rate is under 7%.

Cry Havoc
01-25-2012, 02:57 PM
:lmao DarrinS embarrassing himself again.

z0sa
01-25-2012, 02:58 PM
The War on Employees is long, blatant, and ongoing.

Mitch Daniels' State of the Union Response Shows GOP Priority: Beating Up on Workers

the Republicans would choose somebody who is in open war with his constituents and his citizens and put him up as the national speaker for the Republican Party.”

Daniels “has done a phenomenal job of coming off as an average Hoosier, where he rolls around in an RV and wears a flannel shirt, but underneath, he has sold off our resources, he has privatized our welfare system…He is in the midst of busting unions and taking away our right to collectively bargain by making Right to Work his number one legislative priority.”

“Right to Work” is the deceptive title for a right-wing law attacking unions’ ability to wield power and stay solvent. Every remaining GOP presidential candidate has endorsed it, but none of them has pulled off what Daniels may be about to: making this 1% bill a statewide law.

http://www.alternet.org/story/153886/mitch_daniels?page=entire

that's some good propaganda you got going there. like everything you vomit

boutons_deux
01-25-2012, 03:22 PM
great rebuttal, I'm humbled.

GFY

TeyshaBlue
01-25-2012, 03:26 PM
that's some good propaganda you got going there. like everything you vomit

bouton's the king of non sequiturs. He'll wedge one in just about anywhere.:lol

TeyshaBlue
01-25-2012, 03:27 PM
We're talking writing styles and communicatation levels and bouton's is thinking "War on Employees". :facepalm

The Reckoning
01-25-2012, 03:31 PM
have you seen some of those 8th grade vocab words??

and does words per sentence dictate reading level? lol i guess faulkner was the smartest man alive.

DarrinS
01-25-2012, 03:39 PM
We all know Americans are pretty stupid, lazy, uneducated, functionally illiterate.

An speaker always adapts to his audience, least common denominator.

At least Barry has to speak down, with skill, to the dumbfucks, while dubya struggled to speak up to the dumbfucks. Dubya knew how "put food on his family"

:lmao

cheguevara
01-25-2012, 03:39 PM
There is a reason why the show, Are you Smarter than a 5th Grader is a hit.

JoeChalupa
01-25-2012, 03:45 PM
If this is intended as criticism, I'm not sure this is a very good thing to criticize.

In an era where societal disparities are substantial and growing, speaking to the whole country rather than to an educated elite seems reasonable.

I concur.

Leetonidas
01-25-2012, 03:54 PM
Lame criticism. Obama sucks but c'mon dude, majority of the top 10 speeches listed were from shit presidents, minus Kennedy and Reagan.

boutons_deux
01-25-2012, 03:55 PM
Trash talkin typos, great comeback.

I put this here because it was a SOTU thread.

TeyshaBlue
01-25-2012, 04:04 PM
Not typo's you demented bot. Non sequiturs. It's a thread about the level of composition.:lmao

DarrinS
01-25-2012, 04:31 PM
Maybe talking down to the American people reveals what he and his party think of the American people.


By the way, Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level of Mitch Daniels' rebuttal: 11.1

101A
01-25-2012, 04:38 PM
If this is intended as criticism, I'm not sure this is a very good thing to criticize.

In an era where societal disparities are substantial and growing, speaking to the whole country rather than to an educated elite seems reasonable.


"Educational Elite" are now High School Freshmen?

We HAVE sunk low.

Warlord23
01-25-2012, 04:58 PM
Words per sentence as the primary metric for intelligence/sophistication of speech??? That must make this one of the smartest speeches by an American ever:

Ultimately what the bailout does is ... help ... those who are concerned about the healthcare reform that is needed ... to shore up our economy ... helping the ... it's gotta be all about job creation too and shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track, so healthcare reform and reducing taxes and reigning in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans .. and trade ... we've got to see trade as opportunity and not competitive, um, scary thing, but one in five jobs being created in the trade sector today, we've got to look at that as more opportunity; all those things under the umbrella of job creation ... this bailout is a part of that

Spurminator
01-25-2012, 05:00 PM
:lol Yeah no shit. I don't care if he's using sentences of three monosyllabic words, you judge it by the content of the message.

Blake
01-25-2012, 05:48 PM
Maybe talking down to the American people reveals what he and his party think of the American people.


By the way, Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level of Mitch Daniels' rebuttal: 11.1

Words per sentence: 14.0

ChumpDumper
01-25-2012, 06:00 PM
It was no use. Darrin still couldn't understand the speech.

baseline bum
01-25-2012, 06:49 PM
L.O.L., fucktarded cocksmoker DarrinS's masturbation posting showed incredible incompetence.

Flesch–Kincaid Grade Level = 26th grade

SA210
01-25-2012, 07:24 PM
you judge it by the content of the message.


Well there wasn't much there, that's for sure.

Bill_Brasky
01-25-2012, 08:31 PM
Most newspapers are written at a 6th grade level, IIRC.

Either way, OP is just trying to nitpick and take cheap partisan shots rather than address real problems and discuss rational solutions. Non-issue.

JoeChalupa
01-25-2012, 08:41 PM
If he were to speak at a higher level then he'd be accused of being pompous and thinking he is above speaking to the people.

Bartleby
01-25-2012, 08:54 PM
Dragging down Obama's Flesch-Kincaid score are the series of short sentences written - perhaps for dramatic effect - on a number of policy issues.

On the state of the American auto industry:

"We bet on American workers. We bet on American ingenuity. And tonight, the American auto industry is back."

On the need to rebuild the nation's infrastructure:

"So much of America needs to be rebuilt. We've got crumbling roads and bridges. A power grid that wastes too much energy."

The short sentences observation is a fairly empty criticism, but what's worse is that two of those examples aren't even complete sentences. (Most writers would put a comma between "ingenuity" and "And," and the "power grid . . ." line is a fragment.)

TheProfessor
01-25-2012, 09:09 PM
Maybe talking down to the American people reveals what he and his party think of the American people.
Maybe you're looking kind of foolish right now.

Wild Cobra
01-26-2012, 03:09 AM
good idea given average intelligence of a person is around 8th grade level.
I see it as speaking up to liberals and speaking down to conservatives.

Wild Cobra
01-26-2012, 04:08 AM
Wow...

Obama can read TOTUS at an 8th grade level?

I'm amazed!

scott
01-26-2012, 12:19 PM
This.

Everyone who has ever written for public disclosure is aware of the unwritten rule that you NEVER write above a 7th grade level, otherwise you run the risk of losing your audience. It's not that they CAN'T read above that level, just that it becomes tiresome to do so. The only formats where it is generally accepted to write at a high level are academic and scientific works or literature.


Most newspapers are written at a 6th grade level, IIRC.

Either way, OP is just trying to nitpick and take cheap partisan shots rather than address real problems and discuss rational solutions. Non-issue.

Agloco
01-26-2012, 06:44 PM
lol DarrinS and WC expecting a "Dissertation of the Union"

LnGrrrR
01-26-2012, 07:38 PM
Maybe talking down to the American people reveals what he and his party think of the American people.

Does that mean that all Presidents since FDR have had slowly increasing levels of disdain for the American people? Because SOTU addresses have steadily been decreasing downward on the scale for quite a few decades now per your OP.

LnGrrrR
01-26-2012, 07:40 PM
WH23 should be offended by the implications of the OP :lol

The Reckoning
01-26-2012, 07:45 PM
i win.

Proxy
01-26-2012, 08:38 PM
I see it as speaking up to liberals and speaking down to conservatives.

The left is generally smarter than the right

Winehole23
01-27-2012, 01:59 AM
WH23 should be offended by the implications of the OP :lolI'm not. Why should I be?

Wild Cobra
01-27-2012, 03:49 AM
The left is generally smarter than the right
Yep, they're dumb enough to think they are.

Wild Cobra
01-27-2012, 03:50 AM
lol DarrinS and WC expecting a "Dissertation of the Union"
No.

Just tires of all the code words that democrats use.

Did you think it was a meaningful speech?

FuzzyLumpkins
01-27-2012, 06:33 AM
Considering the number of people that take offense claiming condescension when complicated grammar or diction is used, this should not be surprising. its supposed to be a speech to everyone and thus it caters to those dumbfucks too.

Agloco
01-27-2012, 03:16 PM
No.

Just tires of all the code words that democrats use.

Did you think it was a meaningful speech?

In and of itself? Suspect tbh. Hooked on phonics metrics aside, in the context of other SOTU speeches it was par for the course.

Wild Cobra
01-27-2012, 08:40 PM
In and of itself? Suspect tbh. Hooked on phonics metrics aside, in the context of other SOTU speeches it was par for the course.
I guess it's true in the aspect that we are allowing the dumbing down of our society.

TDMVPDPOY
01-29-2012, 10:48 AM
his speech in regards to foreign policy in the middle east syria atm...lol yeh overthrow the assad regime for the islam brotherhood? hahahahaa look what they are doing now in lebanon, egypt or whatever country t hey have govern atm....fkn fail

TDMVPDPOY
01-29-2012, 11:55 PM
lol his speech

why was one of the walmart owners and apples owner doing in the house? they not politicians...