sons thank God the Hornets were unable to reach deal with Gordon!

[BRHornet45]

sons apparently the deadline just passed and the Hornets couldn't reach a deal with the always injured, chucker Eric Gordon who was asking for 5 years, $80M. Oh and keep in mind that he has only played in 2 damn games for the Hornets this season and trying to demand a max contract while being injured and reports of him to be out at least another 3 weeks as well. The guy is a solid shooting guard, but definitely not worth $16 million a year even when healthy and especially not at this point. Has anyone checked his stats? I never realized just how injury prone he is. dude has missed like 70 games over the last two seasons and is going to miss about half (and probably more) of the season this year.

sons this is a good thing for the Hornets. Eric Gordon is too injury prone and too unreliable even when healthy to be worth that type of money. We all saw how well the last big contract worked out for the Hornets with Peja and his 5 year, $65M deal. The Hornets got about a half a season of good basketball from him, watched him sit on the bench from injures for about 3 years, and then watched him shoot air balls for another year and a half. God bless

[Killakobe81]

Awesome trade!!!

Plus Minny won in Dallas tonight ...

But the ample cap space will be worth it's weight in gold ...:toast

[DPG21920]

It was a great trade regardless. He's still a RFA, they can let the market set his value.

[8FOR!3]

So what, your star tangent is Marco Belinelli/Chris Kaman? Cool dood.

[BRHornet45]

son we're not going to do shit this season in case you haven't noticed that by now. however locking up $80 million to a player who stays injured every season isn't the answer to rebuilding.

[Killakobe81]

It was a great trade regardless. He's still a RFA, they can let the market set his value.

great? Hardly. More cost effective? Definitely. Gordon is the one decent player they got and he is injury prone. And though a RFA, no way they match any large deals.

DPG you were right they could probably of gotten more for Paul, but where you were flat out wrong was...about this trade ... it wasn't it.

It's Ok though, you still a boss player in my book ... and to think people were sucking you off for your debates on the matter. :lol
Then some of those same cats turn around and cast you aside when the exec seats were handed out. Then giving you menial jobs like help determining the 20th member ...makes no sense, DPG ...makes no sense.

[baseline bum]

$80 million? :rollin

I like Gordon, but not at that fucking price tag.

[DPG21920]

They will have two top 10 picks, cap space and can either get Gordon cheaper if no one makes him a max offer or sign and trade him.

[DPG21920]

great? Hardly. More cost effective? Definitely. Gordon is the one decent player they got and he is injury prone. And though a RFA, no way they match any large deals.

DPG you were right they could probably of gotten more for Paul, but where you were flat out wrong was...about this trade ... it wasn't it.

It's Ok though, you still a boss player in my book ... and to think people were sucking you off for your debates on the matter. :lol
Then some of those same cats turn around and cast you aside when the exec seats were handed out. Then giving you menial jobs like help determining the 20th member ...makes no sense, DPG ...makes no sense.

I was right about the trade. Even without Gordon it's still better than las trade. You still don't get it. Others do which is why they side me.

[Killakobe81]

They will have two top 10 picks, cap space and can either get Gordon cheaper if no one makes him a max offer or sign and trade him.

Thing is that draft is very good at the top and with stern running things No's pick will DEFINITELY get them a #1 overall choice. That other pick won't be great and all of the blue chippers will be long gone ...

[DPG21920]

If your argument is that 2 likely top 10 picks won't give them the opportunity to be better off in this draft you're nuts IMO.

[Killakobe81]

I was right about the trade. Even without Gordon it's still better than las trade. You still don't get it. Others do which is why they side me.

Sure some of the rank and file was blowing smoke for ya ....

From David Thorpe's ESPN chat yesterday ...

As the season is progressing, does it still look like the Hornets got a good deal for CP3? Gordon is hurt (as normal), T'wolves pick is most likely in the middle of the 1st at this rate, and Aminu isn't even a bench player anymore.

David Thorpe (12:20 PM)

I thought it was a bad deal then, and I still do.

[Pelicans78]

It was still a good trade. I'll take it every time. Two lottery picks, and Gordon who the Hornets can match and probably will once they have an owner. They have some good young pieces as well.

[DeadlyDynasty]

That David Thorpe sounds like a smart guy, imo.

[Pelicans78]

Aminu's still the backup SF to Ariza. He played well tonight. He's a project, but has upside.

Gordon needs to stay healthy. If he doesn't and ends up leaving it hurts. We will definitely get an impact player with the 1st pick. The second pick is up in the air, but its still early.

[DPG21920]

It was still a good trade. I'll take it every time. Two lottery picks, and Gordon who the Hornets can match and probably will once they have an owner. They have some good young pieces as well.

Exactly. Nothing that's transpired has changed my logic. Have things worked out to make it look like the absolute steal it was initially? No. But it's still a damn good deal. I don't care how many pundits you quote; those were the same jack asses boasting over that awful Laker trade.

[Killakobe81]

If your argument is that 2 likely top 10 picks won't give them the opportunity to be better off in this draft you're nuts IMO.

no promises both those picks are top 10 ... But name me 5 potentially great players after the top 5?

What you don't get I wasnt even arguing that the Lakers deal was great. I was just pissed at the way it was handled. Odom as it turns out has looked like shit. SO that weakens my case a bit, but the trade is still shit. I told you that Aminu, Kaman and the Minny pick wasnt as valuable as you made it sound. Not saying at 11 or 12 that pick is not valuable. I just think aminu and Kaman are both trash. So really all they got for a top 2 PG was Gordon and the Minny pick. Despite Paul's hammy they could of and should of done better.

Didn't have to be the Lakers deal but they could of done better. That trade is trash.

[Pelicans78]

No better deals out there. Paul had leverage. Hornets didn't. Also, Hornets needed to blow the whole thing up. Time to start over, rebuild. West is gone, Paul is gone. That era needed to end anyway. The Clippers deal was the best available. The Knicks had no one to offer, the Lakers deal was bad long-term and Paul wouldn't commit to anyone else.

Kaman was gone anyway. He was just throw-in piece. The key was Gordon, another lottery pick, and a chance to start over.

[BRHornet45]

exactly ^

[Darth_Pelican]

I don't disagree with sitting Gordon for an extended period of time and letting him heal completely. It gives us a better chance to completely tank the season while at the same time making sure Gordon's injury doesn't linger. But regardless, he hasn't proven to be a $16 mil per year player in the NBA.

[DPG21920]

no promises both those picks are top 10 ... But name me 5 potentially great players after the top 5?

What you don't get I wasnt even arguing that the Lakers deal was great. I was just pissed at the way it was handled. Odom as it turns out has looked like shit. SO that weakens my case a bit, but the trade is still shit. I told you that Aminu, Kaman and the Minny pick wasnt as valuable as you made it sound. Not saying at 11 or 12 that pick is not valuable. I just think aminu and Kaman are both trash. So really all they got for a top 2 PG was Gordon and the Minny pick. Despite Paul's hammy they could of and should of done better.

Didn't have to be the Lakers deal but they could of done better. That trade is trash.

It's every bit as good as I made it sound. You have your opinion, I just think you are dead wrong and nothing's changed since I said so before it all happened. You keep ignoring the cap space as well and focusing on the "lack of talent" when I argued that part is irrelevant when they got Gordon in the deal. Gordon was the top talent they needed. Who cares about the other players; their value is in their contracts being either large expirings or cheap.

This trade was easily about as good as you could possible hope for in the situation and accomplished everything they needed. Nothing is guaranteed but they gave themselves a legit shot to rebuild and do it well.

The angle of trying to argue this draft sucks outside the top 5 is silly IMO.

[Killakobe81]

Aminu's still the backup SF to Ariza. He played well tonight. He's a project, but has upside.

Gordon needs to stay healthy. If he doesn't and ends up leaving it hurts. We will definitely get an impact player with the 1st pick. The second pick is up in the air, but its still early.

Trust me, watched clips a lot last season, he is trash. I'll change my mind if Hornets get a top 5 pick from Minny or someone late in the lottery they strike gold on. Take the Lakers out of it that ship sailed a month ago... Now we are just evaluating the deal on it's own merits. Hornets did not get two lotto picks they would of got one of them on their own suckage ...

They got:

Gordon (top tier young SG)
Kaman (A big, but trash)
Aminu (young but trash, would of asked for Bledsoe instead)

Minny pick (good pick with a slight chance of being great)

[Pelicans78]

Trust me, watched clips a lot last season, he is trash. I'll change my mind if Hornets get a top 5 pick from Minny or someone late in the lottery they strike gold on. Take the Lakers out of it that ship sailed a month ago... Now we are just evaluating the deal on it's own merits. Hornets did not get two lotto picks they would of got one of them on their own suckage ...

They got:

Gordon (top tier young SG)
Kaman (A big, but trash)
Aminu (young but trash, would of asked for Bledsoe instead)

Minny pick (good pick with a slight chance of being great)

That's the best deal they could have gotten, long-term. Their own suckage is important because it helps them secure an impact lottery pick. Team him with a healthy Gordon gives the team a nice duo. Kaman, Aminu are irrelevant really. They may find a better SF in the draft anyway. Paul had leverage and wasn't going anywhere except LA or NY. No better deal was available.

[DPG21920]

No, if you do the LA trade they are likely a fringe playoff team and don't have the benefit of getting their own top pick, plus the Minny pick which is going to be no worse than 15 and they would be hamstrung with bad contracts/aging players.

[BRHornet45]

sons Eric Gordon has only played in 198 out 264 games in his career and is going to miss at least another 3-4 weeks right now. The dude has just stayed injured ever since his rookie season. Gordon put up 16 points per game during his rookie season playing in 78 games, then put up 16 points per game again during his second season when only playing in 62 games, and last season he put up 22 points per game however people tend to forget that he only played in 56 games last year doing so.

when healthy he is a good, solid, and possibly even a top 7 or 8 shooting guard in the NBA, but the chances of Gordon being healthy is about as good as your chances of winning on a lotto ticket. you're just rolling the dice.

[Killakobe81]

It's every bit as good as I made it sound. You have your opinion, I just think you are dead wrong and nothing's changed since I said so before it all happened. You keep ignoring the cap space as well and focusing on the "lack of talent" when I argued that part is irrelevant when they got Gordon in the deal. Gordon was the top talent they needed. Who cares about the other players; their value is in their contracts being either large expirings or cheap.

This trade was easily about as good as you could possible hope for in the situation and accomplished everything they needed. Nothing is guaranteed but they gave themselves a legit shot to rebuild and do it well.

The angle of trying to argue this draft sucks outside the top 5 is silly IMO.

Of course it's an opinion. These are all opinions ...but you act like it is a fact.
What good is cap space if no free agent wants to sign there? sure, they can trade but if the pieces you have are trash who would want it? Again I no longer care about the Lakers angle, (I don't deny it bugged me then) if Paul keeps playing the way he has when healthy that is a shit trade. Look at what Utah got for Dwill ...

Favors
2 first rounders
Cash

Sure Harris is sucking balls but THAT is a trade ...and Paul is better than Williams.

[DPG21920]

I can't believe you are even trying to argue this, Killa. No one had the package LAC offered with talent/cap space/pick. I understand you are upset about the Laker trade (I know you'll say you are not and are just evaluating this one, which we all see right through) but you have yet to make a sound argument as to why this one "is trash". Even if the Minny pick isn't as good as it appeared initially that doesn't change the overall trade except for it being a clear bludgeoning to just a viscous beat down.

[Pelicans78]

Favors is a project as well.

[DPG21920]

Of course it's an opinion. These are all opinions ...but you act like it is a fact.
What good is cap space if no free agent wants to sign there? sure, they can trade but if the pieces you have are trash who would want it? Again I no longer care about the Lakers angle, (I don't deny it bugged me then) if Paul keeps playing the way he has when healthy that is a shit trade. Look at what Utah got for Dwill ...

Favors
2 first rounders
Cash

Sure Harris is sucking balls but THAT is a trade ...and Paul is better than Williams.

Gordon>>>>>>>>Favors
Minny Pick + Their own >= Utah's 2 1st
Cap Space>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cash

[Killakobe81]

That's the best deal they could have gotten, long-term. Their own suckage is important because it helps them secure an impact lottery pick. Team him with a healthy Gordon gives the team a nice duo. Kaman, Aminu are irrelevant really. They may find a better SF in the draft anyway. Paul had leverage and wasn't going anywhere except LA or NY. No better deal was available.

This where we disagree, unless there was no way you couldn't start the season with in NOLA. If you tell me CP3 put one of the games he put up against the Heat or Lakers up that his trade value does not go up?

Again, forget the Lakers deal. Im just speaking on THIS deal. Lakers deal is irrelevant. Nets set the market and you guys settled plain and simple.

Gordon is very good when healthy. even so the Hornets should of done better.

[TheSpurglar]

You have to count both lotto picks because without dealing Chris Paul, or if they'd dealt for a better short-term package (Laker deal), they likely wouldn't have a potential number one overall pick. They'd have the pick of an 8 seed, like last year. They made the trade with the knowledge that once they did it they'd have a great chance at the number one pick, so imho it definitely counts.

[DPG21920]

Trying to argue that Paul is better than Dwill is funny considering you just changed your mind on that and even if you believe that, it's close. The packages are at least comparable and UTA wasn't in nearly as bad of a situation as NO. Makes no sense you would argue this.

[Pelicans78]

This where we disagree, unless there was no way you couldn't start the season with in NOLA. If you tell me CP3 put one of the games he put up against the Heat or Lakers up that his trade value does not go up?

Again, forget the Lakers deal. Im just speaking on THIS deal. Lakers deal is irrelevant. Nets set the market and you guys settled plain and simple.

Gordon is very good when healthy. even so the Hornets should of done better.

No other big market team had much to give up. He didn't want to go to Golden State. Dallas had nothing to offer. The Knicks didn't. He didn't want to go anywhere else. Teams would have wanted him to sign an extension or commit to more than one year. He didn't sign an extension with the Clippers either. He's only guaranteed for two years.

[Killakobe81]

I can't believe you are even trying to argue this, Killa. No one had the package LAC offered with talent/cap space/pick. I understand you are upset about the Laker trade (I know you'll say you are not and are just evaluating this one, which we all see right through) but you have yet to make a sound argument as to why this one "is trash". Even if the Minny pick isn't as good as it appeared initially that doesn't change the overall trade except for it being a clear bludgeoning to just a viscous beat down.

Did you not read I WAS upset about that trade with the way Stern did us ...never denied that. But I just think the Hornets Could of done btter if they waited. Besides i did not create this thread DPG, I sat on the Thorpe comment BR a fine member of our exec committee brought up Gordon. :lol

What do you mean I did not make a sound argument? Again opinion you post as fact, not exactly executive committee behavior ...:rollin

I agree Gordon is better than Favors ... but Paul is also better than Dwill Favors has the potential to be better than any other player in that trade. Besides, what kind of player do you think Hornets will get with that Minny pick? This year's Derek Favors ...

[Killakobe81]

Trying to argue that Paul is better than Dwill is funny considering you just changed your mind on that and even if you believe that, it's close. The packages are at least comparable and UTA wasn't in nearly as bad of a situation as NO. Makes no sense you would argue this.

Duly noted that I was once on the Dwill better than Pau l(or at least close) bandwagon. Argued it many times. I also admitted I was very wrong about it after last year's playoffs and the other day when you and I were doing our "dance" (no homo) ...:lol

But feel free to bring that up. But even let's say I STILL believed that, most of the NBA types especially the stat geeks felt CP3>>>>Dwill.
and since many teams now employ those geek bastards, I say they should of held out for more.

But this argument bores me. I stated my case. Neither side can claim victory, but I am sure you will try :rollin .
Let's just save this baby for when you are Royal emperor of the NBA forum, and if I turn out to be right on this, promise me some type of honor of my choosing ... if not I will gladly serve under you as a flunky, hitman or as a member of your royal guard ...your choice. :toast

[mercos]

The Hornets were put in a bad situation with the whole Chris Paul fiasco. On top of having no owner and thus an uncertain future this offseason was boned by the lockout which complicated everything. At first I liked the Laker deal from the Hornets perspective (I did not think the deal was good for LA because I don't think the Lakers need a ball dominant point guard beside Kobe) but after seeing Lamar play in Dallas I think they got a better deal from the Clippers.

Now the Hornets are set to have a couple of high picks and hopefully new ownership sometime this year or next. If they get good management they could turn this thing around. Regarding Gordon, there is no way I would give him a max contract. Way to risky with someone that injury prone.

[DPG21920]

You haven't made a sound argument. Just offering an opinion doesn't make it sound. You haven't displayed an understanding of the value of the trade because you don't get it and the things you say as to why you deem it bad make little sense.

You keep bringing up the executive committee like it hurts my feelings :lol I think someone fell a little to hard for my Neo shtick.

How could the Hornets have done better. Name a team that could have offered them a better young talent than Gordon + a better first round pick + the amount of cap space + the ability to suck so they maximize their own pick this year. Just one example if it's so obvious to you.

[DPG21920]

:lol How will you be right? I was already proven right. I alone spoke out against you and the national media and said the Laker deal sucked. I alone said that the Clippers could offer a better package and outlined what that could be. I explained why it was better and it was obvious which is why it went down because the owner of the Hornets saw the same thing.

Even if they let Gordon go and both their picks turn out to be busts you won't be right. I will still be right because it's not about a guarantee; it's about doing what most logical people would deem as giving yourself the best chance to accomplish your goals. This trade already accomplished that.

[Killakobe81]

You haven't made a sound argument. Just offering an opinion doesn't make it sound. You haven't displayed an understanding of the value of the trade because you don't get it and the things you say as to why you deem it bad make little sense.

You keep bringing up the executive committee like it hurts my feelings :lol I think someone fell a little to hard for my Neo shtick.

How could the Hornets have done better. Name a team that could have offered them a better young talent than Gordon + a better first round pick + the amount of cap space + the ability to suck so they maximize their own pick this year. Just one example if it's so obvious to you.

Didnt say it was obvious. And I agree hornets were in a bad spot. I just feel they could of done better. Let's play this out ...they had offers from the Clips and Lakers. They could of leaked those out and made the other teams try and beat it. Look at what Denver got for Melo ... he only wanted NY and yet they did much better than the Hornets have appeared to. Not only did they gain some cap space but they are deeper and younger than before. If the clips wanted him THAT bad ... NOLA could of exerted considerable pressure ...at first Gordon was a "deal breaker" but they relented. Clips acted like they didn't need Paul ...but they did. I would of called their bluff and have at least gotten both #1 picks, Gordon and Bledsoe now THAT would of been a better trade. I don't know cap numbers so Kaman may of been needed to make the dollars work ...

[Killakobe81]

:lol How will you be right? I was already proven right. I alone spoke out against you and the national media and said the Laker deal sucked. I alone said that the Clippers could offer a better package and outlined what that could be. I explained why it was better and it was obvious which is why it went down because the owner of the Hornets saw the same thing.

Even if they let Gordon go and both their picks turn out to be busts you won't be right. I will still be right because it's not about a guarantee; it's about doing what most logical people would deem as giving yourself the best chance to accomplish your goals. This trade already accomplished that.

:lol
:lmao

Ok, I take it back ...I am not THAT arrogant.

[DPG21920]

:lol Sure getting an extra pick and Bledsoe would have been better it doesn't mean it was a "shit" trade as you put it. It was an excellent trade as I've outlined.

Also, you can't name a single team that could have given them better. So obviously it's not that clear.

[DPG21920]

:lol
:lmao

Ok, I take it back ...I am not THAT arrogant.

Is that not true? I'm not being arrogant. I was scoffed relentlessly when I said the Laker deal sucked. I was scoffed worse when I said NO could do better and named the Clips and what type of package they could get. I was right so how is that arrogant, it's just the truth.

I've been wrong numerous times (dem Mavs), I was good on this one.

[Killakobe81]

And why do you keep bringing up the Lakers?
I was the dumbass that said we would be giving up too much for Paul do you remember? this is not about that trade vs the other one. Apparently the shake-up has you confused. I just argued that Stern did us dirty. I was not upset about them turning down a spectacular deal by us ... I was only upset that it screwed our team because all 3 GM's had agreed to deal in principle an dit left our team scrambling.

I just think the Hornets should of held out for more, if that was the best deal they could get they could of waited until the trdae deadline and still make that deal. and they still would of sucked after the trade so they still would of been able to tank. With my deal they probably suck even worse ...

And I also freely admit I can't stand Aminu ...so maybe that is why I feel the way I do. Look it up DPG, I argued that on the day of the veto.

[Pelicans78]

No way the Hornets could tank if they had Paul till the deadline. They would win alot more games.

[Killakobe81]

Maybe shit is too strong. And maybe Clips (cant believe Im typing this) arent as dumb as Nets or Knicks ... but I just think they were sold short. To say it was shit is exaggeration on my part ...

[DPG21920]

Aminu is irrelevant. He only has upside. If he sucks (which I agree he does), then they cut ties. He was just a young upside piece thrown in. Saying they should have held out for more isn't the same as saying it was a "shit" deal and trying to come at me like I was wrong about the principles of the deal.

[Killakobe81]

No way the Hornets could tank if they had Paul till the deadline. They would win alot more games.

how many more games when he has missed like 4 or 5 already and he would of had a lot less motivation to suit up since there would be far less national TV games? :lol

[DPG21920]

How do you know he would of pulled a hammy on NO :lol?

[Killakobe81]

Aminu is irrelevant. He only has upside. If he sucks (which I agree he does), then they cut ties. He was just a young upside piece thrown in. Saying they should have held out for more isn't the same as saying it was a "shit" deal and trying to come at me like I was wrong about the principles of the deal.

Come on DPG, this what we do. :lol

And to be fair I never named you here I posted a smart ass comment (some of you consider that trolling , I call it baiting) and you came after me. :married:

All i said was great trade and you came here to show your superiority ... but that is you and we have fun, at least I know I do. You dont take this shit personal do you, DPG? Like I said we have some similarities ...that is why we argue.

[DPG21920]

No, I don't take it personal. I talk fast, type fast and In vino veritas.

[Killakobe81]

No, I don't take it personal. I talk fast, type fast and In vino veritas.

:toast My, ninja!!! (In my best Denzel voice)

[BRHornet45]

the trade was well worth it and about the best that we could get for Paul. we were fortunate enough to have Chris Paul during the peak of his career and watch him put up crazy numbers averaging 22 and 11+ for two consecutive years and bring us to the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years. He's not the same player now after his knee surgery and will do nothing but decline from here on out. whoever signs him long term will be the sucker in all of this.

At this point you're paying for a player who is only a shell of his old self and a sexy name that can help sell tickets. He can give you a few sparks of brilliance here and there every now and then, but 90% of the time he is just cruising and trying not to over do it so he won't get hurt again.

[Pelicans78]

The Hornets followed the same script in 2004-2005. They dumped Baron for nothing, traded other veterans for cheap young players, your mom's a whore, went 18-64, and drafted Paul the next season. They also had enough cap room to trade for Chandler and sign Peja (even though it was a disaster). They're following the same script. Hopefully they won't overpay for crap like Peja, Mo-Pete, Posey, etc.

[fevertrees]

Hornets 1-9 at home. No wonder the tickets are going for .25 on stubhub.