Spurs pursuing Kenyon Martin

[Robz4000]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7511134/sources-miami-heat-los-angeles-clippers-teams-pursuing-kenyon-martin

Haven't seen this posted yet. Good to see the FO actually doing something, though I'm not 100% sold on K-Mart being the answer to our front line issues.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Thanks for posting, normally I'd be against signing K-Mart cuz I hate him and his attitude, but with the disaster bigs of Blair and Bonner I'd welcome him with open arms.

[TJastal]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7511134/sources-miami-heat-los-angeles-clippers-teams-pursuing-kenyon-martin

Haven't seen this posted yet. Good to see the FO actually doing something, though I'm not 100% sold on K-Mart being the answer to our front line issues.

Why wouldn't he be? If he's reasonably healthy that is. He'd be a great fit next to Duncan because he's a mobile, ultra-athletic 4.

Guys like Martin, Al Horford, and Tyrus Thomas are the the types who would make the best compliments to Timmy at this stage of his career, IMO.

[TJastal]

The Clippers and the Knicks can offer the $2.5 million mini-midlevel exception. San Antonio can as well, but it is unlikely to do so because of the luxury tax, sources said.

Atlanta is also limited by luxury tax concerns. Miami can only offer the veteran's minimum of $1.4 million.


Meh..bet he ends up a clipper.

[CubanMustGo]

He ain't comin' here. Book it.

[jjktkk]

Would love it if Kmart signed with the Spurs. Its been a long time since the Spurs have had a thug big.

[xmas1997]

He won't come here, other teams can offer either more money or better chance at title.

[Trill Clinton]

Clippers or Heat.

[phxspurfan]

Thanks for the info but I'll believe it when I see the presser. I'm sure the Spurs FO pursues many players that don't end up coming over to actually help. But it's good to see the FO is at least attempting to do their job and get our small ass lineup some help.

[Leetonidas]

Why wouldn't he be? If he's reasonably healthy that is. He'd be a great fit next to Duncan because he's a mobile, ultra-athletic 4.

Guys like Martin, Al Horford, and Tyrus Thomas are the the types who would make the best compliments to Timmy at this stage of his career, IMO.

This isn't 2003 dude, he's not "ultra-athletic."

That being said he's an upgrade over Blair/Bonner and plays solid defense so I'd say yes to him.

[z0sa]

I wouldn't call him ultra athletic by any stretch nowadays, but he'd be more than serviceable. Not like we have a trainwreck of quality bigs on the roster at the moment..

[spurbyheart]

Its either the clips or heat with our luck

[Robz4000]

Why wouldn't he be? If he's reasonably healthy that is. He'd be a great fit next to Duncan because he's a mobile, ultra-athletic 4.

Guys like Martin, Al Horford, and Tyrus Thomas are the the types who would make the best compliments to Timmy at this stage of his career, IMO.
Oh he'd be a great fit physically. It's his attitude I'm worried about. He's one of those Ron Artest/KG-like players. If he brings an 'all about me' attitude, it won't work out, not to mention what he might do to hurt the Spurs' image as a classy organization.

[DisAsTerBot]

clippers need a big

[Amuseddaysleeper]

No no guys here's how it will go down:


1. ESPN reports marquee free agent is interested in Spurs and 3 or 4 other teams

2. A week later, the list gets whittled down to Spurs and another team that isn't even as good as the Spurs

3. ESPN/MY SA/Spurtstalk/Message Boards all list said marquee free agent as heavily leaning towards San Antonio

4. At the last minute some other team offers a couple million more per season, vastly overpays, and Spurs left in the dust.

5. Many wonder if the Spurs were even interested in said marquee agent at all to begin with.


Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

[shraediggz]

The problem I see here is, will he eat into Tiago Splitter's minutes???

If so, I hope to god we don't sign him. If he does come over, it's obviously going to be at the expense of someone else's playing time. I wouldn't only hope those minutes come from Blair and Bonner.

I'd be happy to see KMart starting alongside Duncan and having Tiago come in off the bench. I think that would add some toughness and defense to our front court. I don't see how we lose anything with him taking over Blair's spot. But we gain what Blair isn't showing us.

I wish Bonner and Blair were used more as situational players... it kills me when the Spurs rely on those guys!

[z0sa]

the tax problem certainly is an issue. the Spurs did not pick up JA to save a palsy 750k or so; Holt and the FO have either something in mind for the offseason or they are in money saving mode and neither one bodes well for picking Martin up.

[JsnSA]

Would love to nab him but he will end up a Clipper I'm sure.

He will most likely get the full MMLE from them. Plus its an up and coming team that has a shot to compete this year and he will get to play alongside an offensive big which takes the pressure off him some and allows him to do his thing on D.

[timvp]

Eh, I'm not sure how I feel about this. Yeah he's a mobile bigman whose an above average defender, but the fit doesn't excite me.

1. If the Spurs are to do anything in the playoffs, it'll be due to a frontline of Duncan and Splitter. If Splitter doesn't eventually start playing 30+ minutes a night, the Spurs don't have a legitimate shot. Adding Martin might make that less likely.

2. Martin wanting a prominent role could also become an issue. He's not known for being great in the locker room and he'd probably become a distraction the first time Pop decides to play Bonner extended minutes.

3. The Spurs will have to be highly efficient on offense to make a run. Martin's midrange shot -- that he shoots no matter what -- is highly inefficient.

4. Martin plays the high post these days. Duncan plays the high post too nowadays. So really, they're not that good of a fit next to each other anymore. Blair, Splitter and Bonner have their flaws but at least none really invade Duncan's space.

5. Martin is injury prone and a choker. Neither trait is good for a team trying to make a playoff run, especially one that already has a handful of injury prone players as it is.

That said, if it were guaranteed that Martin would replace Bonner in the rotation, I'd probably do it. But that wouldn't happen so, IMO, he's not really worth bringing in.

[TJastal]

The problem I see here is, will he eat into Tiago Splitter's minutes???

If so, I hope to god we don't sign him. If he does come over, it's obviously going to be at the expense of someone else's playing time. I wouldn't only hope those minutes come from Blair and Bonner.

I'd be happy to see KMart starting alongside Duncan and having Tiago come in off the bench. I think that would add some toughness and defense to our front court. I don't see how we lose anything with him taking over Blair's spot. But we gain what Blair isn't showing us.

I wish Bonner and Blair were used more as situational players... it kills me when the Spurs rely on those guys!

Kmart & Timmy would be a great starting frontcourt, Splitter & Bonner as backups would also be solid. This team could do a helluva lotta damage with those 4.

[TJastal]

All interesting points, Timvp. Perhaps he would be best suited for the 2nd unit, but then there is the problem of him wanting "a prominent role".

Could become a locker room cancer, as you stated. Still, his corpse is probably still better than Dejuan Blair on defense.

[SA210]

No no guys here's how it will go down:


1. ESPN reports marquee free agent is interested in Spurs and 3 or 4 other teams

2. A week later, the list gets whittled down to Spurs and another team that isn't even as good as the Spurs

3. ESPN/MY SA/Spurtstalk/Message Boards all list said marquee free agent as heavily leaning towards San Antonio

4. At the last minute some other team offers a couple million more per season, vastly overpays, and Spurs left in the dust.

5. Many wonder if the Spurs were even interested in said marquee agent at all to begin with.


Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

[DesignatedT]

Kmart has always been an underrated defender and is miles better in that department compared to Bonner or Blair. That alone makes me want him badly. Not to mention that he is a decent mid range shooter and can finish inside.

No time to be greedy in this situation. He would immediately be an upgrade defensively and that's what we are looking for. Not many better realistic options out there.

Is it perfect? God no. Is it better than Bonner or Blair? Yes, without question.

[SpurNation]

My bet is he'll go to which ever playoff qualified team that offers him the most for this season.

If fiscal history repeats itself...that will pretty much eliminate the Spurs.

[DesignatedT]

All that being said I fully expect him to go to NY for the money or MIAMI if he's more interested in the ring.

[wildbill2u]

Always pursuing, never persued.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

He ain't comin' here. Book it.

Really going out on a limb their faggot

[timvp]

All interesting points, Timvp. Perhaps he would be best suited for the 2nd unit, but then there is the problem of him wanting "a prominent role".

Could become a locker room cancer, as you stated. Still, his corpse is probably still better than Dejuan Blair on defense.

Yeah, Martin is certainly a better defender than Blair and Bonner. If he's in top shape, he could be a better defender than anyone on the team right now. This is a guy who the Nuggets put on Kobe Bryant in the playoffs a few years ago ... and he actually did good work.

Both of his knees have had microfracture surgery and he's had a handful of other knee surgeries but somehow his athleticism has remained pretty much the same. (Last year he was a bit slower but he was returning after yet another injury.) If he's 100% healthy, getting his defense on the team for the minimum (which sounds like all the Spurs are offering) wouldn't be bad.

But, for the reasons I explained, I don't think it makes the Spurs more of a championship contender. It'd be like the Drew Gooden signing -- except it'd be for defense instead of offense and Gooden is a good teammate while Martin has always been a sulker.

[DrSteffo]

I actually know K. Martins former sports psychologist believe it or not. I can only tell that he is not that bad hehe.

[therealtruth]

Eh, I'm not sure how I feel about this. Yeah he's a mobile bigman whose an above average defender, but the fit doesn't excite me.

1. If the Spurs are to do anything in the playoffs, it'll be due to a frontline of Duncan and Splitter. If Splitter doesn't eventually start playing 30+ minutes a night, the Spurs don't have a legitimate shot. Adding Martin might make that less likely.

2. Martin wanting a prominent role could also become an issue. He's not known for being great in the locker room and he'd probably become a distraction the first time Pop decides to play Bonner extended minutes.

3. The Spurs will have to be highly efficient on offense to make a run. Martin's midrange shot -- that he shoots no matter what -- is highly inefficient.

4. Martin plays the high post these days. Duncan plays the high post too nowadays. So really, they're not that good of a fit next to each other anymore. Blair, Splitter and Bonner have their flaws but at least none really invade Duncan's space.

5. Martin is injury prone and a choker. Neither trait is good for a team trying to make a playoff run, especially one that already has a handful of injury prone players as it is.

That said, if it were guaranteed that Martin would replace Bonner in the rotation, I'd probably do it. But that wouldn't happen so, IMO, he's not really worth bringing in.

He might be a better McDyess if he keeps his attitude in check. They're both 6'9 and around 240. Martin also has the midrange shot and his defense and rebounding is probably better than Dice. At the same time I would have no problem with him complaining about Pop overplaying Bonner. Someone's got to say it. I think he could play center on the second unit with Blair or Bonner. That would allow Splitter to start.

[phxspurfan]

if it were guaranteed that Martin would replace Bonner in the rotation

:drunk :drunk :drunk

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Bonner_focusing.JPG/220px-Bonner_focusing.JPG = http://freshinfos.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/t-1000-with-self-healing-bullet-wounds.jpg

[elemento]

We can't even bring a washed up Josh Howard. He won't sign here.

[Leetonidas]

If the Spurs sign him I wouldn't be surprised to see Blair traded for a pick. If he takes Blair's spot and doesn't limit Tiago's minutes, he could put us over the top if Manu is healthy. Maybe not able to beat Miami but we could make it to the Finals again. I'm tired of seeing the Spurs get shat on in the post by anyone with a decent post game. I think Martin would've done a much better job guarding Randolph than Timmy/Blair.

[jjktkk]

Really going out on a limb their faggot

Your making a name for yourself to replace cubby with your trolling 41. Trying to get banned sweety pie?

[ChumpDumper]

The Clippers and the Knicks can offer the $2.5 million mini-midlevel exception. San Antonio can as well, but it is unlikely to do so because of the luxury tax, sources said.This would be prorated, right?

In that case it would be nowhere near $2.5 million

[xmas1997]

I'm waiting for the word that the Mavs have decided to go after him too.

[jjktkk]

Any grown man with a lips tatoo on his neck has issues!

Are tattos an issue when scouting prospects?

[siraulo23]

Spurs are interested...

same old...

[lurker23]

This would be a good move from a basketball perspective, and a bad one from a locker room perspective. Not sure which outweighs the other at the moment, to be honest.

However, I know that the Spurs frequently have a one-on-one type interview as part of the process for any FA or draft pick, so if Pop is convinced he will be a locker room problem, then they won't sign him.

As far as money is concerned, the Spurs could choose to soften the blow by trading away James Anderson for a second round pick. It wouldn't cover the whole cost, but it would help.

[TD 21]

He might be a better McDyess if he keeps his attitude in check. They're both 6'9 and around 240. Martin also has the midrange shot and his defense and rebounding is probably better than Dice. At the same time I would have no problem with him complaining about Pop overplaying Bonner. Someone's got to say it. I think he could play center on the second unit with Blair or Bonner. That would allow Splitter to start.

He probably is better than McDyess, depending on the shape he's in. McDyess is a better mid range shooter and rebounder, but Martin is still one of the better defensive fours in the league, something McDyess no longer was. He also has a swagger to him that this team sorely lacks.

I think the plan would be basically what it was last season with McDyess, which is to say, have Martin eventually take over as the starting four. But unlike last season, when it took Pop until their backs were up against the wall in the playoffs, I suspect Blair would be the odd man out immediately (which would inevitably lead to him sulking and pouting).

But it'll all moot, because he's more than likely not coming to the Spurs. Sure, they can offer him a starting position, but they can't offer the best chance at a championship and they're apparently not willing to offer the $2.5 million that glamor teams/markets like the Clippers and Knicks can. Even if none of that were enough of an impediment, this probably would be: The Spurs and their way of doing things don't jive with wannabe tough guys/thugs like Wallace, Howard and Martin, which is why the first two didn't sign with the Spurs and why the latter one probably won't, either.

[silverblk mystix]

:pop:" If Kenyon signs here, he would be a great backup to Matty."

[DrSteffo]

Any grown man with a lips tatoo on his neck has issues!

Yes he had some but nothing too bad. The psychologist was actually kind of optimistic. This was I think right after he was drafted and doesn't mean anything, just some useless gossip.

[Duncan2177]

:pop:" If Kenyon signs here, he would be a great backup to Matty."

:pop::pctoss

[TD 21]

This would be a good move from a basketball perspective, and a bad one from a locker room perspective. Not sure which outweighs the other at the moment, to be honest.

However, I know that the Spurs frequently have a one-on-one type interview as part of the process for any FA or draft pick, so if Pop is convinced he will be a locker room problem, then they won't sign him.

As far as money is concerned, the Spurs could choose to soften the blow by trading away James Anderson for a second round pick. It wouldn't cover the whole cost, but it would help.

Excellent point.

They could offer him to the Bobcats, who desperately need wings. The Spurs would almost end up with a 1st round pick out of it, because the Bobcats 2nd is all but assured of being 31st-33rd. If absolutely necessary, the Spurs could throw in their own 2nd. And obviously, Thomas would be waived. That's roughly $2.2 million (pro-rated), which would almost cover the cost of Martin.

[timvp]

If the Spurs could get a second round pick for Anderson, he'd be traded already, IMO. Most likely it would take paying a team to take Anderson in exchange for a top 50-55 protected second round pick.

Two surgically repaired feet + poor play = negative value

[angelbelow]

Kenyon "The Real K-Mart" Martin is someone I'd love to have for depth sakes. Lots of questions regarding the fit

Hes a well documented defender, tough on the court, plays the high post extremely well (capable of hitting the 3 but not his strong point), pretty good passer too. He occasionally shows good b-ball IQ especially because he HAD to start playing smarter to stay relevant (losing his athleticism was a big blow to his post game.)

The negatives are obviously his attitude, he one of those people who thinks hes better than he is. With that said, hes a more selfish than Blair is on offense and loves to settle for those long jumpers. He also extremely injury prone. I think, like Blair, hes had both his ACL's operated on. He's never had a season where he played all 82 games. If its not suspensions its injures.

Not sure how much we can offer the guy but for cheap he could nice addition.

[TD 21]

If the Spurs could get a second round pick for Anderson, he'd be traded already, IMO. Most likely it would take paying a team to take Anderson in exchange for a top 50-55 protected second round pick.

Two surgically repaired feet + poor play = negative value

Not necessarily. I might buy that with Ginobili healthy. With him out, if Anderson were traded, they'd be down to four wings. So it makes sense to hold onto Anderson for the time being, unless he's thrown into a package for a big. It also wouldn't reflect well on them to deal their highest pick since Duncan (technically, it still is, given that they traded for Leonard's rights) for basically nothing, so soon after he was drafted. It's one thing to do that if it facilitates the signing of a relatively big name like Martin, it's another to do is just for the sake of it.

Maybe they'd have to pay the Bobcats (who are notoriously cheap) or certain other teams to take him, but I wouldn't be surprised if a team under the cap would take a flier on him. The Raptors, for example, are willing to spend and have a putrid SF rotation. Who knows, maybe they'd be willing to take Anderson and the Spurs 2nd for their 2nd (they're at 15, but could waive Butler, who no longer appears to be an NBA player).

[Robz4000]

If the Spurs could get a second round pick for Anderson, he'd be traded already, IMO. Most likely it would take paying a team to take Anderson in exchange for a top 50-55 protected second round pick.

Two surgically repaired feet + poor play = negative value
If we'd basically have to pay (or give up our draft picks) to move Anderson, I'd just rather see the Spurs keep him. I still see a load of potential in him, but it'll remain to be seen if he can utilize it with his low confidence and seemingly drained athleticism. Can't see too many other players we could move to create any real cushion to pay K-Mart, but I'm sure if he does in some crazy alternative universe decide to sign with the Spurs the FO can find a way.

[ChumpDumper]

Not necessarily. I might buy that with Ginobili healthy. With him out, if Anderson were traded, they'd be down to four wings. There are a few wing free agents who could probably do as well or better than Anderson at this point.
It also wouldn't reflect well on them to deal their highest pick since Duncan (technically, it still is, given that they traded for Leonard's rights) for basically nothing, so soon after he was drafted.That ship sailed when they didn't pick up the option.
It's one thing to do that if it facilitates the signing of a relatively big name like Martin, it's another to do is just for the sake of it.There's probably some decent savings to be had if he's traded to another team that is under the cap.

[Bruno]

K-Mart would be a good addition providing Pop go with the right rotation that is to say Duncan, Martin and Splitter playing the PF/C minutes.

I don't really have the details for this shortened year but exceptions usually decreased during the year. When Martin would be freed from his contract, the Spurs' $3M mini MLE, will be less than $3M. Spurs offering the max the CBA allowed shouldn't be that expensive.

[TD 21]

There are a few wing free agents who could probably do as well or better than Anderson at this point.

I don't disagree. But there's the matter of him being their highest pick since Duncan and not really getting much of a chance. It would reflect really poorly on them to trade him for basically nothing of value and for the purpose of saving what amounts to mere cents by NBA standards (meaning the difference between him and a minimum salaried wing).


That ship sailed when they didn't pick up the option. It didn't, because technically that doesn't close the door on him returning. But if, with the bump in cap space that provides, they acquire a quality big out of it, then getting rid of him for basically nothing would be swept under the rug.


There's probably some decent savings to be had if he's traded to another team that is under the cap.Minor savings. But if that's all they're doing it for, they're going to come off as flat out petty. Given how Duncan spoke about Anderson on media day last season, they obviously built him up. To give up on him this quickly just to save a few cents would not send a good message to the team or the fans.

[TJastal]

I don't disagree. But there's the matter of him being their highest pick since Duncan and not really getting much of a chance. It would reflect really poorly on them to trade him for basically nothing of value and for the purpose of saving what amounts to mere cents by NBA standards (meaning the difference between him and a minimum salaried wing).

It didn't, because technically that doesn't close the door on him returning. But if, with the bump in cap space that provides, they acquire a quality big out of it, then getting rid of him for basically nothing would be swept under the rug.

Minor savings. But if that's all they're doing it for, they're going to come off as flat out petty. Given how Duncan spoke about Anderson on media day last season, they obviously built him up. To give up on him this quickly just to save a few cents would not send a good message to the team or the fans.

I think it sends a great message actually. That the spurs aren't interested in giving unnecessary players charity contracts and are more interested in fielding a winning basketball team.

[spurs4real]

Always pursuing, never persued.

Could not have said it better myself. It's the story of the San Antonio Spurs

[slick'81]

would be great but wont hold my breath

[ChumpDumper]

I don't disagree. But there's the matter of him being their highest pick since Duncan and not really getting much of a chance. It would reflect really poorly on them to trade him for basically nothing of value and for the purpose of saving what amounts to mere cents by NBA standards (meaning the difference between him and a minimum salaried wing).Reflect poorly to whom?

Message board posters?


It didn't, because technically that doesn't close the door on him returning. But if, with the bump in cap space that provides, they acquire a quality big out of it, then getting rid of him for basically nothing would be swept under the rug.The guy doesn't play now. He has already been replaced.


Minor savings. But if that's all they're doing it for, they're going to come off as flat out petty. Given how Duncan spoke about Anderson on media day last season, they obviously built him up. To give up on him this quickly just to save a few cents would not send a good message to the team or the fans.The guy doesn't play now. He has already been replaced.

If they keep Anderson and he never improves and they subsequently miss out on the next Danny Green, how would you feel? It does become a numbers game in just about any situation. If the Spurs can get ~$1.2 million off the books by paying a team less than that to take Anderson, that isn't chump change to anyone.

[TD 21]

TJastal, how would trading away Anderson for nothing of value and replacing him with a D-League scrub until Ginobili returns, send a message about them being interested in fielding a winning basketball team? It would send a message about them being cheap.


Reflect poorly to whom?

Message board posters?

The team, particularly the big three, who have presumably been led to believe they're still trying to contend. Not that trading Anderson would alter their chances, but it's the message it would send. Much like trading Ratliff two seasons ago. Obviously, that wasn't going to and didn't change their outlook, but it was as if they were saying, in a subtle way, that they were waiving the white flag.


The guy doesn't play now. He has already been replaced.

If they keep Anderson and he never improves and they subsequently miss out on the next Danny Green, how would you feel? It does become a numbers game in just about any situation. If the Spurs can get ~$1.2 million off the books by paying a team less than that to take Anderson, that isn't chump change to anyone.I think there's still a better chance of Anderson becoming a rotation player than some run of the mill D-League scrub (I know it pains you to hear that).

I'm talking about right now, though. Ginobili is still a ways off, so they'd need a minimum salaried wing for the time being. In which case they'd be saving under .5 million (pro-rated) by trading Anderson for nothing.

[mystargtr34]

I dont know if i would want him here.. mainly because its another excuse for Pop not to play Tiago. Unless one of Blair or Bonner are completely removed from the rotation, and Tiago gets 30 minutes then im all for it.. but i dont see that happening.

K-Mart as a player.. i still think he can play a role on a good team albeit in a reduced role. He would be fine off the bench playing C next to Bonner or Blair.. size isnt really an issue playing against 2nd units.. but you still have to defend the rim somewhat which he can do. Even if he starts and Tiago conitnues off the bench and gets 30 minutes i wont mind, anything is better than Blair in the starting lineup at this point.

[ChumpDumper]

TJastal, how would trading away Anderson for nothing of value and replacing him with a D-League scrub until Ginobili returns, send a message about them being interested in fielding a winning basketball team? It would send a message about them being cheap.If it's a guy who plays better than Anderson does now, it's a pretty clear message.


The team, particularly the big three, who have presumably been led to believe they're still trying to contend. Not that trading Anderson would alter their chances, but it's the message it would send. Much like trading Ratliff two seasons ago. Obviously, that wasn't going to and didn't change their outlook, but it was as if they were saying, in a subtle way, that they were waiving the white flag.But Anderson isn't playing.


I think there's still a better chance of Anderson becoming a rotation player than some run of the mill D-League scrub (I know it pains you to hear that).Anderson already got beat out by a run of the mill D-League scrub. And there are NBA free agents out there who could conceivably contribute.


I'm talking about right now, though. Ginobili is still a ways off, so they'd need a minimum salaried wing for the time being. In which case they'd be saving under .5 million (pro-rated) by trading Anderson for nothing.No, they could be saving much more than that.

I'm not flat out advocating a salary dump at this point. I'm just saying it could make sense.

[TD 21]

If it's a guy who plays better than Anderson does now, it's a pretty clear message.

Barring injury to another wing, he wouldn't get the opportunity to prove it, much like Thomas.


But Anderson isn't playing.Neither was Splitter last season. I guess they should have given him away for nothing and signed some D-League scrub to replace him at a fraction of the price.


Anderson already got beat out by a run of the mill D-League scrub. And there are NBA free agents out there who could conceivably contribute.Green may have had a short stint in the D-League, but he was always considered an NBA prospect. I don't think anyone saw him being as good an all around player as he's been, but it's not like it's surprising that he looks like an NBA player.

Many of the NBA free agents would cost the veteran's minimum, in which case they'd be saving nothing and could actually be adding salary (depending on their service time).


No, they could be saving much more than that.

I'm not flat out advocating a salary dump at this point. I'm just saying it could make sense.The bottom line is, if they flat out salary dump him -- without assurances that Martin would sign with them -- then whatever they saved wouldn't be going into upgrading the team this season.

Why would you, a fan, care about how much money a bunch of rich guys would be saving on something, unless it goes into upgrading the team?

[ChumpDumper]

Barring injury to another wing, he wouldn't get the opportunity to prove it, much like Thomas.So you're saying it probably wouldn't make any difference on the court. I agree.


Neither was Splitter last season. I guess they should have given him away for nothing and signed some D-League scrub to replace him at a fraction of the price.That's a quality straw man you built there. Good job.


Green may have had a short stint in the D-League, but he was always considered an NBA prospect. I don't think anyone saw him being as good an all around player as he's been, but it's not like it's surprising that he looks like an NBA player.So you'd be ok with Anderson's being replaced by an NBA prospect. Alright.


Many of the NBA free agents would cost the veteran's minimum, in which case they'd be saving nothing and could actually be adding salary (depending on their service time).So you don't want to improve the team if it costs money? You're all over the place here.


The bottom line is, if they flat out salary dump him -- without assurances that Martin would sign with them -- then whatever they saved wouldn't be going into upgrading the team this season.Says you. And saving money is something team owners like to do.


Why would you, a fan, care about how much money a bunch of rich guys would be saving on something, unless it goes into upgrading the team?I didn't say I cared. I said it can't be ignored. You want to pretend businessmen don't care about money. That's just silly.

[Mark in Austin]

Eh, I'm not sure how I feel about this. Yeah he's a mobile bigman whose an above average defender, but the fit doesn't excite me.

1. If the Spurs are to do anything in the playoffs, it'll be due to a frontline of Duncan and Splitter. If Splitter doesn't eventually start playing 30+ minutes a night, the Spurs don't have a legitimate shot. Adding Martin might make that less likely.

2. Martin wanting a prominent role could also become an issue. He's not known for being great in the locker room and he'd probably become a distraction the first time Pop decides to play Bonner extended minutes.

3. The Spurs will have to be highly efficient on offense to make a run. Martin's midrange shot -- that he shoots no matter what -- is highly inefficient.

4. Martin plays the high post these days. Duncan plays the high post too nowadays. So really, they're not that good of a fit next to each other anymore. Blair, Splitter and Bonner have their flaws but at least none really invade Duncan's space.

5. Martin is injury prone and a choker. Neither trait is good for a team trying to make a playoff run, especially one that already has a handful of injury prone players as it is.

That said, if it were guaranteed that Martin would replace Bonner in the rotation, I'd probably do it. But that wouldn't happen so, IMO, he's not really worth bringing in.

+1. Only if Bonner is waived, and we all know that isn't happening. Would be a disaster if Martin was brought aboard and took Splitter's minutes. Especially since he is such a choker. He belongs on the Knicks with the founding member of the backwards fighting pussies club.

[TJastal]

Gotta hand it to TD_21 he's really keeping the faith...even though the fanboys have stopped accepting applications at this time.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

DISGUSTING. I don't want this loser anywhere near the Spurs locker room. If he signs on that will just mean less time for Splitter. You know it's gotten bad for the Spurs when "fans" want Kenyon Martin on the team.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, you can never really totally write off a young guy's chances until he actually hangs it up -- but say Da'Sean Butler continues to improve to the point where he's NBA ready. Would you accept an Anderson salary dump to accommodate him?


(it's a totally premature scenario, merely hypothetical)

[TD 21]

So you're saying it probably wouldn't make any difference on the court. I agree.

So you're saying you're an unabashed front office apologist. I agree.


That's a quality straw man you built there. Good job.You built it when you essentially said if a player is not playing, they're useless, so you might as well trade them, even if can't get anything of discernible value for them.


So you'd be ok with Anderson's being replaced by an NBA prospect. Alright.Green was a legit NBA prospect. Almost every single player in the D-League isn't. Get over it.


So you don't want to improve the team if it costs money? You're all over the place here.Improve? I'm just explaining why what you said makes no sense. You're all concerned about them saving a few cents and then you bring up a scenario where they wouldn't do that.


Says you. And saving money is something team owners like to do.You not being a team owner, I'm not sure why this possibility would excite you.


I didn't say I cared. I said it can't be ignored. You want to pretend businessmen don't care about money. That's just silly.I never said you did, but you insinuated it. I never pretended that and I'm not putting it past the Spurs to do what you're suggesting (even if it doesn't come as a prelude to a Martin signing). I'm just looking at this from a fan's perspective and as a fan, I don't care about them saving money.

[ChumpDumper]

So you're saying you're an unabashed front office apologist. I agree.Hey, an ad hominem! You're going for all the fallacies at once.


You built it when you essentially said if a player is not playing, they're useless, so you might as well trade them, even if can't get anything of discernible value for them.Don't use the term if you don't know what it means.


Green was a legit NBA prospect. Almost every single player in the D-League isn't. Get over it.Get over what? I'm not saying they would sign anyone from the D-League but an NBA prospect.


Improve? I'm just explaining why what you said makes no sense. You're all concerned about them saving saving a few cents and then you bring up a scenario where they wouldn't do that.I'm not all concerned about anything. You fundamentally misunderstand what I write. don't worry, you aren't the first.


You not being a team owner, I'm not sure why this possibility would excite you.Who said it excited me?


I never said you did, but you insinuated it. I never pretended that and I'm not putting it past the Spurs to do what you're suggesting (even if it doesn't come as a prelude to a Martin signing), I'm just looking at this from a fan's perspective and as a fan, I don't care about them saving money.Well, good for you. That's swell.

[angelbelow]

DISGUSTING. I don't want this loser anywhere near the Spurs locker room. If he signs on that will just mean less time for Splitter. You know it's gotten bad for the Spurs when "fans" want Kenyon Martin on the team.

Well when your 3rd big is a coin flip between Bonner and Blair, it has gotten bad. Martin isn't ideal but hes not a terrible choice either. Hes a versatile and well documented defender and he has a nice midrange jumper. Other pros and cons are sprinkled through-out the thread so I won't go into that.

[blackfire12]

Eh, I like the idea of him being on the team but he really doesn't fit the mold of the spurs character judgement. If it took Bonner/Blair/Anderson then I'm all for it, I still don't see it happening and it isn't like we absolutely need him.

[TD 21]

Hey, an ad hominem! You're going for all the fallacies at once.

So all the people who think you're an apologist are wrong and you're right? Where did all of us who think this get that idea from then?


Don't use the term if you don't know what it means.I used it appropriately. It was a hanging breaking ball that got knocked out of the park. Deal with it.


Get over what? I'm not saying they would sign anyone from the D-League but an NBA prospect.Well, I know it pains you anytime the truth is spoken about the D-League.


I'm not all concerned about anything. You fundamentally misunderstand what I write. don't worry, you aren't the first.You're extremely concerned. That's why you rush to the defense of the front office in any thread where you suspect someone might be questioning them. Worse yet, you have the audacity to deny this, even though you've done this literally hundreds upon hundreds of times.


Who said it excited me?I did.

[ChumpDumper]

So all the people who think you're an apologist are wrong and you're right? Where did all of us who think this get that idea from then?People can think whatever they want. Doesn't necessarily make them right.


I used it appropriately. It was a hanging breaking ball that got knocked out of the park. Deal with it.Not at all. It was in no way a straw man.


Well, I know it pains you anytime the truth is spoken about the D-League.What truth? The truth that a few of the players called up each year turn out to be serviceable NBA players like Danny Green?

That doesn't pain me at all.


You're extremely concerned. That's why you rush to the defense of the front office in any thread where you suspect someone might be questioning them. Worse yet, you have the audacity to deny this, even though you've done this literally hundreds upon hundreds of times.Sorry, you misunderstand. Some people get really emotionally invested in this message board posting and take everything personally.

You are one of those people.


I did.Well, you're wrong. not much else to be said.

That was easy.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, you can never really totally write off a young guy's chances until he actually hangs it up -- but say Da'Sean Butler continues to improve to the point where he's NBA ready. Would you accept an Anderson salary dump to accommodate him?


(it's a totally premature scenario, merely hypothetical)You never answered this hypothetical, TD 21. I repeated it for you.

[TD 21]

People can think whatever they want. Doesn't necessarily make them right.

No, but when many think it (we can always start a poll to verify this), what are the odds that it isn't?


Not at all. It was in no way a straw man.

It was.


What truth? The truth that a few of the players called up each year turn out to be serviceable NBA players like Danny Green?

That doesn't pain me at all.

A few, meaning the vast majority aren't legit NBA prospects.


Sorry, you misunderstand. Some people get really emotionally invested in this message board posting and take everything personally.

You are one of those people.

Says the guy who spends as much time on here as anybody, is far and away the all-time leader in back and forth's and is closing in on 65, 000 posts.

I don't get emotionally invested or take anything personally at all. You've obviously misunderstood me.

[ChumpDumper]

No, but when many think it (we can always start a poll to verify this), what are the odds that it isn't?If my internets characterization is that important to you, you can believe whatever you wish.


It was.Show us all how it was.


A few, meaning the vast majority aren't legit NBA prospects.I never said otherwise.


Says the guy who spends as much time on here as anybody, is far and away the all-time leader in back and forth's and is closing in on 65, 000 posts.I admit, I do have fun trolling those who are take things too seriously.


I don't get emotionally invested or take anything personally at all. You've obviously misunderstood me.You obviously get upset when someone disagrees with you or counters one of your arguments. It's OK. Lots of people do.

[ChumpDumper]

Did you miss it the first two times, TD 21?
Well, you can never really totally write off a young guy's chances until he actually hangs it up -- but say Da'Sean Butler continues to improve to the point where he's NBA ready. Would you accept an Anderson salary dump to accommodate him?


(it's a totally premature scenario, merely hypothetical)

[TD 21]

If my internets characterization is that important to you, you can believe whatever you wish.

Not nearly as important as my answering that hypothetical is to you.


Show us all how it was.To those of us with a brain, it's self explanatory.


I never said otherwise.But as you so often do, you insinuated it.


I admit, I do have fun trolling those who are take things too seriously.I admit, I do have fun trolling those who are take things too seriously.


You obviously get upset when someone disagrees with you or counters one of your arguments. It's OK. Lots of people do.Wrong again. I don't get upset at all, I enjoy a good debate.

[ChumpDumper]

Not nearly as important as my answering that hypothetical is to you.Your avoiding it is answer enough. Thanks.


To those of us with a brain, it's self explanatory.Your avoiding it is answer enough. Thanks.


But as you so often do, you insinuated it.Absolutely not. You made a ridiculously false inference based on your personal bias.


I admit, I do have fun trolling those who are take things too seriously.No, you don't. You want everyone to agree with you.


Wrong again. I don't get upset at all, I enjoy a good debate.You enjoy an echo chamber.

[TD 21]

Your avoiding it is answer enough. Thanks.

Only because it pisses you off to no end.


Your avoiding it is answer enough. Thanks.Self explanatory. Look it up.


Absolutely not.Absolutely.


No, you don't. You made a ridiculously false inference based on your personal bias.? I have no personal bias and you don't get to tell me what I enjoy or what my intent is.

[angelbelow]

Wrong again. I don't get upset at all, I enjoy a good debate.


Your avoiding it is answer enough. Thanks.

Wouldn't it be fun if years from now forums ventures into the realm of webcams and microphones. Whoever wants to "post" hits a button and who ever hits the button first gets to talk.

I know we have skype but you have to manually add people as your friends etc etc. With forums you just have to sign up and have a webcam. Obviously it would be pretty hectic to work out and ultimately its probably more user friendly to just use text but it would make debates like this more fun.

[Spurtacus]

But, but...what about trading Bonner/Jefferson for a big?

Seriously, almost no chance he signs with the Spurs.

[ChumpDumper]

Only because it pisses you off to no end.Not really. I just wanted to make sure you were afraid to answer. Thanks again.


Self explanatory. Look it up.We've established you don't know what a straw man is. Thanks again.


Absolutely.You made a ridiculously false inference based on your personal bias.


? I have no personal bias and you don't get to tell me what I enjoy or what my intent is.Of course you have personal bias. Everyone does. It's stupid to claim you don't. You simply let them and your emotions dictate your posting.

[TD 21]

Not really. I just wanted to make sure you were afraid to answer. Thanks again.

Oh yeah, I'm terrified. Keep being overly concerned about the lack of a response to it though, old man.


We've established you don't know what a straw man is. Thanks again.We've established you don't know what self explanatory is.


Of course you have personal bias. Everyone does. It's stupid to claim you don't. You simply let them and your emotions dictate your posting.You made a ridiculously false inference based on your personal bias.

The next time you question a move made by the almighty front office, will be the first.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh yeah, I'm terrified. Keep being overly concerned about the lack of a response to it though, old man.I'm not concerned at all. I have my answer. Just wanted to take away any plausible deniability on your part. Mission accomplished.


We've established you don't know what self explanatory is. It's OK that you don't know what a straw man is. Don't compound that fact by being evasive about it. Makes you look stupid.


You made a ridiculously false inference based on your personal bias.More a deduction tbh. You haven't done much to prove me wrong though.


The next time you question a move made by the almighty front office, will be the first.False. Once again you have fallen into the trap so many have before you. Explanation <> Endorsement. If you weren't so emotional when people don't give you a prize for one of your posts, you might realize this.

[TD 21]

If only you could hear how ridiculous you sound. Some bitter old man, who spends virtually every waking moment on a message board (even though you claim to not be emotionally wrapped up in sports), desperately trying to come off as hip, clever and intelligent (to people who don't even know how you look, no less) and doing everything you constantly accuse others of doing.

It would be funny . . . if it weren't so pathetic.

[silverblk mystix]

If only you could hear how ridiculous you sound. Some bitter old man, who spends virtually every waking moment on a message board (even though you claim to not be emotionally wrapped up in sports), desperately trying to come off as hip, clever and intelligent (to people who don't even know how you look, no less) and doing everything you constantly accuse others of doing.

It would be funny . . . if it weren't so pathetic.

ouch...truth hurts tbh...

lol minor league expert...

[jjktkk]

Well, you can never really totally write off a young guy's chances until he actually hangs it up -- but say Da'Sean Butler continues to improve to the point where he's NBA ready. Would you accept an Anderson salary dump to accommodate him?


(it's a totally premature scenario, merely hypothetical)

Yes. Prior to Butler's ACL tear, I believe he was considered a lottery talent. Tough defender, coached by a tough guy in Higgins. Hope he makes it back.

[ChumpDumper]

If only you could hear how ridiculous you sound. Some bitter old man, who spends virtually every waking moment on a message board (even though you claim to not be emotionally wrapped up in sports), desperately trying to come off as hip, clever and intelligent (to people who don't even know how you look, no less) and doing everything you constantly accuse others of doing.

It would be funny . . . if it weren't so pathetic.It is funny how you try to write this narrative about me just because you feel slighted by me on a message board.

It's pretty hypocritical of you, and extremely funny.


ouch...truth hurts tbh...

lol minor league expert...I never claimed anything.

Your butt hurts tbh.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes. Prior to Butler's ACL tear, I believe he was considered a lottery talent. Tough defender, coached by a tough guy in Higgins. Hope he makes it back.It's nice when people aren't afraid.

[spurtech09]

Thanks for posting, normally I'd be against signing K-Mart cuz I hate him and his attitude, but with the disaster bigs of Blair and Bonner I'd welcome him with open arms.
I rather have bonner than blair in the line-up...atleast bonner can make shots....I say spurs should trade Blair....Blair is horrible on defense

[objective]

when was Butler supposed to be a lottery talent?

DX never had him higher than 18, and had him as a second rounder his whole senior year, describing him as a 'below average' athlete back through his junior year before he ever wrecked his knee.

[crc21209]

Would love to have him, but I highly doubt it. He'll end up on the Heat or the Clippers....

[jjktkk]

Always look at what kind of Tat a guy has, tells you alot about him! That said, I would sign him for the year, but I think he goes to Miami, hes a south beach guy.

NY has an outside shot.

Hes actually a Dallas, Texas guy.

[ElNono]

Get Martin, trade for Kidd and get Kerry Kittles out of retirement and we might as well call ourselves the San Antonio Has Beens...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hes better than Blair.

[Brutalis]

No thanks. Splitter would do better.

[letmk]

Didn't read the whole thread,however, is Przybilla still available? How's his situation? I think he would be a good fit.

I remember him talking about making decision after holidays, but I didn't follow the news recently.

[Russo21]

As long as they make a move to try land Kenyon or Kamaan i'll be happy. Both these guys are available. But i doubt we could land both for financial and cap space reasons.

If they land either one of them it will at least put Blair and Bonner down the end of the rotation which is a win for san antonio and stop us fans bitching bout those two after every game.

Splitter/Kamaan
Duncan/Martin

= shitloads bigger and better then

Splitter/Blair
Duncan/Bonner

[jermaine]

As long as they make a move to try land Kenyon or Kamaan i'll be happy. Both these guys are available. But i doubt we could land both for financial and cap space reasons.

If they land either one of them it will at least put Blair and Bonner down the end of the rotation which is a win for san antonio and stop us fans bitching bout those two after every game.

Splitter/Kamaan
Duncan/Martin

= shitloads bigger and better then

Splitter/Blair
Duncan/Bonner
Amen pimpin!

[8FOR!3]

As of yesterday,

"Several teams have been connected to Przybilla, but he may be leaning toward signing in Miami. Other teams known to have targeted him in the past are Dallas, Toronto, Boston, Milwaukee and the Los Angeles Clippers. Jan. 27 - 8:00 am et"

Found that on google under news about Joel Przybilla. Doubt we have a chance on him, he'd be a decent fit though.

K-Mart or Chris Kaman would make me happy though, as long as we don't give up someone we have no business getting rid of *cough*Splitter*cough*

[blackfire12]

Hes better than Blair.

Just about anyone we have is better than Blair. Yes, even that ginger named Bon Bon... but not by much.

[Proxy]

Just about anyone we have is better than Blair. Yes, even that ginger named Bon Bon... but not by much.

Um, no. You're pretty much completely wrong. Thanks.

[LakerHater]

Why havnt they at least brought in Gilbert Arenas for a workout!???

[Proxy]

Why havnt they at least brought in Gilbert Arenas for a workout!???

you forgot to put the '/sarcasm' at the end of your post

[LakerHater]

you forgot to put the '/sarcasm' at the end of your post
I said for a workout, he might turn out to be better than Joseph & Neal at point!!
..... who knows but its worth a shot!

[Proxy]

I said for a workout, he might turn out to be better than Joseph & Neal at point!!
..... who knows but its worth a shot!

TJ and Manu come back around all-star break. That's two playmakers and essentially point guards returning.

Arenas would just be another Neal, and another TP in the sense that we have another pass-2nd PG.

[spectator]

if the spurs are willing to pay luxury tax money, they could have a good chance at martin for these 3 reasons:
1. they can offer the mini-mid level, which (most probably) matches the highest bidder
2. the spurs would make martin the starting PF (which no one else can promise - from the teams that claim to have interest in him) and thus grant him the wish of playing a reasonable number of minutes
3. if the spurs hover around .550 without ginobili by feb 16, they can claim to be a much better team with manu and martin in the starting 5 - probably a .670 team - which might satisfy his request of playing for a contender

still, no 1 and no 2 are the best reasons for his coming over.

[TD 21]

Not that this is exactly breaking news, but if anyone heard Broussard in the Bulls/Heat pregame or read the quotes from Billups and Del Negro in HoopsHype today, it sounds like Martin is a virtual lock to end up a Clipper.

Not surprisingly, Billups has been recruiting him for a while and equally as not surprising, there's not a single quote about Jefferson or Duncan about recruiting him, even though those two should have been working on him for a while.

I don't get this team. I've never been a Martin fan and we can poke holes in his game all day long (like we do with every potential acquisition, as if a prime Duncan is going to fall into this team's hands), the reality is this: Unless they can turn Jefferson into a large expiring contract, such as Okur's, then use Okur's contract, along with the usual suspects, to acquire a half decent big, Martin is the best they can do. He's got the toughness and swagger this team desperately lacks and is still one of the better power forward defenders in the league.

They should be doing whatever they can to sign him, like giving him a partially guaranteed second season, with an agreement beforehand that he'll be waived in time for the start of free agency. Then they could potentially not increase payroll at all (depending on the partially guaranteed number, if they trade Anderson and waive Thomas) or do so only minimally.

[jermaine]

We have a nice guy called Bonner an a lil fat nigga named Blair. We don't need Martin.

[Rick Von Braun]

Is there any truth to the reports, or just mere speculation?

Sorry, no 3-23 should wear the Spurs uniform... I pass.

[mystargtr34]

Whats Sheed's status? I havent heard anything about him since the rumours of his comeback. Spurs would be wise to go after him again.. provided he can still run up and down the court.

[Ice009]

We need another big, a third big, so before anyone dismisses Martin, actually think about it.

[Bruno]

We should know soon where K-Mart will go:
http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/01/30/knicks-still-in-kenyon-martin-sweepstakes/


Andy Miller, Martin’s agent, reiterated by text Monday that Martin will make his decision “by week’s end.”

[weebo]

No to this guy please.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Not that this is exactly breaking news, but if anyone heard Broussard in the Bulls/Heat pregame or read the quotes from Billups and Del Negro in HoopsHype today, it sounds like Martin is a virtual lock to end up a Clipper.

Not surprisingly, Billups has been recruiting him for a while and equally as not surprising, there's not a single quote about Jefferson or Duncan about recruiting him, even though those two should have been working on him for a while.

I don't get this team. I've never been a Martin fan and we can poke holes in his game all day long (like we do with every potential acquisition, as if a prime Duncan is going to fall into this team's hands), the reality is this: Unless they can turn Jefferson into a large expiring contract, such as Okur's, then use Okur's contract, along with the usual suspects, to acquire a half decent big, Martin is the best they can do. He's got the toughness and swagger this team desperately lacks and is still one of the better power forward defenders in the league.

They should be doing whatever they can to sign him, like giving him a partially guaranteed second season, with an agreement beforehand that he'll be waived in time for the start of free agency. Then they could potentially not increase payroll at all (depending on the partially guaranteed number, if they trade Anderson and waive Thomas) or do so only minimally.

So, because YOU haven't heard anything, it automatically means they aren't reaching out. Got it.

[silverblk mystix]

If you were a multi-millionaire....and you were looking at these cities....

Miami


Los Angeles


New York




San Antonio?




c'mon....where would you go?

[silverblk mystix]

...and where would you most certainly...not go?

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Whats Sheed's status?

Fat. Out of shape. Unmotivated. Selfish. Money-needy. You should really Google Sam Smith's cautionary column about any team stupid enough to want this waste wad.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Why havnt they at least brought in Gilbert Arenas for a workout!???

A team decided it was better to pay him to go away. That team is correct. It's kind of sad because he came out in the same draft as Parker, but Arenas is fucking DONE. The mulitple surgeries have robbed him of any athletic edge he had, and now he has to rely on basketball IQ, which he totally lacks.

[Spur|n|Austin]

K-Mart would be a great addition, IMO. Spurs could use a little fire on the defensive end, and anyone out there grabbing boards is a plus. Pop usually keeps the guys with attitude in check. What are the major downfalls of adding him to the roster?

[jgome21]

Never been a fan of Kenyon Martin. The guy carries a bad attitude and just isn't the type of guy you want in the locker room, imo. I'd rather take my chances with Bonner, Blair and Splitter right now. Splitter has gradually improved as the season has progress. Also, Gilbert Arenas? Please...that dude's been washed up for seasons now.....

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol lips tatoo on his neck

anyway no....

we only need a serviceable big, how come not call dice since his doing shit all....a big who can defend and reb is all we need, the offense will come to them

[8FOR!3]

If you were a multi-millionaire....and you were looking at these cities....

Miami


Los Angeles


New York




San Antonio?




c'mon....where would you go?

tbh it'd be between New York and San Antonio. And if I'm K-Mart I don't want to go be Stats' backup in NYC, it's not like they're doing too hot right now. Spurs are missing a couple of pieces, New York's missing needs depth all over the fucking place. You couldn't pay me to live in LA or shit hole Miami. If I were Kenyon Martin I'd go to where I could start.

[cheguevara]

Martin is not that good, and I don't think he'd play well next to Duncan or Splitter.

Martin never played well next to Nene. We do need a bigman, but martin is not it

[ace3g]

pretty much the same info we have heard before:


Kenyon Martin is expected to decide by this weekend which NBA team he’ll join, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. The Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Clippers, Miami Heat, San Antonio Spurs, Atlanta Hawks and New York Knicks have expressed interest in signing the veteran forward.

“He’s a veteran guy who knows how to win at a high level and in a playoff environment,” one NBA general manager said. “He also plays multiple positions. If you get him to a situation where he can be an Antonio McDyess-type of guy, that’s a heck of a guy to add to your roster.”


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Askik_NT3.bzDusl9dZvBHe8vLYF?slug=mc-spears_kenyon_martin_nba_013112

I wonder if that "Antonio McDyess-type of guy" quote was from RC Buford...

[silverblk mystix]

tbh it'd be between New York and San Antonio. And if I'm K-Mart I don't want to go be Stats' backup in NYC, it's not like they're doing too hot right now. Spurs are missing a couple of pieces, New York's missing needs depth all over the fucking place. You couldn't pay me to live in LA or shit hole Miami. If I were Kenyon Martin I'd go to where I could start.

I am talking about CITIES....

I am pointing out that if you already have millions...you look at which city you will be spending your time, your youth and your money on....

NY,LA & Miami have a lot of things that $$ can buy and let's face it...they ALL are much more happening than sleepy San Antonio...not hating on SA just being realistic....

If you have millions...you can definitely see yourself in a nice modern "Architectural Digest" type home overlooking the ocean....and your wife/kids going to the best school/places that money can buy, etc....

Instead of being "stranded" in the san antonio desert just to be playing behind Matt Fuckin' Bonner (sorry-couldn't resist a little Bonner-bashing )...

Be realistic...and honest.

[cheguevara]

we need a big that can fit in like a glove. Kaman comes to mind, Camby if he had been healthy

[mexicanjunior]

I think Martin has a bad attitude but I would take him in a heartbeep if it meant he would average more minutes than Bonner/Blair. Unfortunately, I think he would take Splitter's spot in the rotation.

[tmtcsc]

If you were a multi-millionaire....and you were looking at these cities....

Miami


Los Angeles


New York




San Antonio?




c'mon....where would you go?

If I was a multi-millionaire, you would have never seen me playing in China. Remember, its not how much you make, its how much you keep. This dude needs cash. All those fools in China were desperate.

[Gagnrath]

Out of the fun question closet......

If pop can handle The Worm's attitude and craziness why would a little issue like K-Mart cause problems?

In the scheme of the NBA San Antonio is where insanity goes into Remission. Stephen Jackson was nearly a model citizen here not a crowd rushing brawler. Rodman died his hair a few times with not major incidents and nothing but a hall o fame legacy. In detroit and Chicago not so much.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Out of the fun question closet......

If pop can handle The Worm's attitude and craziness why would a little issue like K-Mart cause problems?

In the scheme of the NBA San Antonio is where insanity goes into Remission. Stephen Jackson was nearly a model citizen here not a crowd rushing brawler. Rodman died his hair a few times with not major incidents and nothing but a hall o fame legacy. In detroit and Chicago not so much.

Pop didn't handle him, he kicked him out as soon as he could for 10 cents on the $.

[FromWayDowntown]

So, because YOU haven't heard anything, it automatically means they aren't reaching out. Got it.

This is always my favorite surmise -- I haven't heard anything about the Spurs trying to [sign player x/trade for a certain kind of player]; therefore, the Spurs aren't even trying to [sign player x/trade for a certain kind of player].

He's been referred to as "CIA Pop" with pretty good reason.

[DJB]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7511134/sources-miami-heat-los-angeles-clippers-teams-pursuing-kenyon-martin

haven't seen this posted yet. Good to see the fo actually doing something, though i'm not 100% sold on k-mart being the answer to our front line issues.

fuck kmart

[cantthinkofanything]

d9nlzNcujFs

[Budkin]

^ Excellent clip.

[Killakobe81]

Clips make little sense if he cares about contributing significant minutes ... Spurs and Knicks make the most sense out of the teams he is "considering" ... that are good teams that he could play a key role on. If he wants to just chase a ring then Heat or even Clips make more sense ...

If amare gets injured or in foul trouble Kmart makes plenty of sense ...

Obviously a third defensive minded big is a big hole on the SPurs roster ...

[xellos88330]

The Spurs could use a bit of toughness and attitude. Not sure if Kmart is the answer for that though. He can be a bit volatile.

[rmt]

I'm for trying to get Martin as he's better than Bonner/Blair. A playoff rotation of TD/Splitter/Martin is not bad - don't trust Bonner in the playoffs and Blair is too short. Martin can guard Dirk, Lamar, Alridge type players and fits well with either TD or Splitter. Spurs could do with some attitude - sometimes they're just toooo laid back.

[jjktkk]

Clips make little sense if he cares about contributing significant minutes ... Spurs and Knicks make the most sense out of the teams he is "considering" ... that are good teams that he could play a key role on. If he wants to just chase a ring then Heat or even Clips make more sense ...

If amare gets injured or in foul trouble Kmart makes plenty of sense ...

Obviously a third defensive minded big is a big hole on the SPurs roster ...

Disagree. Clip's after Griffin, and Jordan, are pretty thin up front.

[HarlemHeat37]

I dislike Martin, but he would be a near-perfect fit for the Spurs IMO..

He could play the 4 next to Duncan or Splitter, he can make the mid-range shot, he can block the occasional shot and he specializes in defending perimeter bigs..attitude aside, he's the ideal candidate..

He would also add toughness to this soft team..

With all that being said, I would be shocked if he joined the Spurs..

[dbestpro]

Disagree. Clip's after Griffin, and Jordan, are pretty thin up front.

He could take Blair's starting spot. No place for him to start on any of the other teams.

[jermaine]

He could take Blair's starting spot. No place for him to start on any of the other teams.

He can have all of Blair's mins. I'm all for it. We NEED someone that will lay your ass out if you think your going to keep coming in the paint laying the ball up. One after another. We NEED a real nigga on this team. It's a fucking joke they way teams just know they can come in our paint at any point.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

He's gonna sign with the Clippers

[Kindergarten Cop]

He's gonna sign with the Clippers

Did you read/hear that somewhere or is that your opinion?

[jjktkk]

He could take Blair's starting spot. No place for him to start on any of the other teams.

IMO, wherever he signs, starting won't be a issue, as long as he gets significant minutes.

[Robz4000]

Did you read/hear that somewhere or is that your opinion?
Nothing's been announced yet, but there's been mentions about Chauncey Billups and Vinny Del Negro reaching out to him. More than likely he'll announce it Fri/Sat.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Did you read/hear that somewhere or is that your opinion?

http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/kenyon_martin_to_the_clippers/9659110?refmod=yb_art_top&ref_art_id=9594770

[jjktkk]

Per Marc Spears, Yahoo "Martin is expected to decide by this weekend which NBA team he’ll join".

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Al4wds29g9bl4tuvtEboXLa8vLYF?slug=mc-spears_kenyon_martin_nba_013112

[Kindergarten Cop]

http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/kenyon_martin_to_the_clippers/9659110?refmod=yb_art_top&ref_art_id=9594770

Thanks. I wouldn't be able to fault him for choosing the Clippers over the Spurs - especially considering how much they appear to want him. They are a very good team in a large market that gets a ton of coverage. I don't know if he would get as much playing time as he may get elsewhere, but I guess we'll find out how much of a factor that truly is.

I would still like to see him in a Spurs uniform, but I'm starting to think that the odds aren't in our favor.

[xmas1997]

He won't sign here IMHO. No FA ever wants to play here for some reason except for the very rare exception.

[cheguevara]

:lmao this is almost as bad as the Dwight thread.

balla gonna sign with LA, MIA or NY

[SenorSpur]

While I don't see any way that Martin will sign with the Spurs, I have to say that him signing with the Clippers makes absolutely no sense. I'm sure he's heard of a young kid named Blake Griffin. I just don't see where he would play there.

For that matter, I don't see where Miami or the Fakers would make sense either, with Chris Bosh and Pau Gasol manning the PF positions with those respective clubs.

Meanwhile, the Spurs could give him an instant starting job alongside a future Hall-of-famer and the chance to go deep into the playoffs. However, I still don't see him choosing the Spurs over the other teams.

[PDXSpursFan]

If the Spurs get Martin, he'll take PT from Splitter. Bonner will keep his minutes :bang

[lefty]

:lmao this is almost as bad as the Dwight thread.

balla gonna sign with LA, MIA or NY
This


lol San Antonio

lol shithole

[Robz4000]

While I don't see any way that Martin will sign with the Spurs, I have to say that him signing with the Clippers makes absolutely no sense. I'm sure he's heard of a young kid named Blake Griffin. I just don't see where he would play there.

For that matter, I don't see where Miami or the Fakers would make sense either, with Chris Bosh and Pau Gasol manning the PF positions with those respective clubs.

Meanwhile, the Spurs could give him an instant starting job alongside a future Hall-of-famer and the chance to go deep into the playoffs. However, I still don't see him choosing the Spurs over the other teams.
With the emergence of the Lakers in the mix for Martin, I'm starting to think they're close to dealing Bynum+Pau for Dwight. Also heard rumors that they're gonna try for Aaron Brooks, so trading Pau for a couple players (PG, depth) is seeming to be less likely.

[SenorSpur]

Witht he mergence of the Lakers in the mix for Martin, I'm starting to think they're close to dealing Bynum+Pau for Dwight. Also heard rumors that they're gonna try for Aaron Brooks, so trading Pau for a couple players (PG, depth) is seeming to be less likely.

That would make sense. However if K-Mart is going to make his decision by this weekend, it's quite possible that Howard may not be dealt by then.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Witht he mergence of the Lakers in the mix for Martin, I'm starting to think they're close to dealing Bynum+Pau for Dwight. Also heard rumors that they're gonna try for Aaron Brooks, so trading Pau for a couple players (PG, depth) is seeming to be less likely.

IMHO, Bynum and Pau > Dwight and K-Mart. I don't see how this move actually helps the Lakers get closer to a championship.

[8FOR!3]

I am talking about CITIES....

I am pointing out that if you already have millions...you look at which city you will be spending your time, your youth and your money on....

NY,LA & Miami have a lot of things that $$ can buy and let's face it...they ALL are much more happening than sleepy San Antonio...not hating on SA just being realistic....

If you have millions...you can definitely see yourself in a nice modern "Architectural Digest" type home overlooking the ocean....and your wife/kids going to the best school/places that money can buy, etc....

Instead of being "stranded" in the san antonio desert just to be playing behind Matt Fuckin' Bonner (sorry-couldn't resist a little Bonner-bashing )...

Be realistic...and honest.

Texas has great public schools. I'm sure his wife/kids would be fine living in the Dominion, it's a solid place to raise a family. I could see New York being a desirable place to live though. I guess I understand why some people like LA, but who the fuck really wants to live in Miami? What the hell is in Miami? Shitty shady ass clubs, and Pitbull.

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs might have a real shot at Martin, except that he's likely going to ask them to guarantee him a starting spot, which they won't do.

[EricD]

What's sad is Splitter would probably be the odd man out if Spurs did sign Martin.

[Robz4000]

That would make sense. However if K-Mart is going to make his decision by this weekend, it's quite possible that Howard may not be dealt by then.
Yep, no way Orlando trades Howard until after the All-Star game. Keep in mind, though, that K-Mart can't sign until the end of February or so. The ASG will of been played about then, and a trade is most likely to happen around then. This will give them a chance to see if the team improves. If they do, they might back out of the D12 sweepstakes and stick to their current big-men. If not, they'll deal Bynum and Pau and try with a big-man rotation of D12/KMart/McRoberts/Murphy. For the Lakers it's championship or bust, they can find a way to survive dealing Bynum and Pau for a situation less favorable should Dwight and KMart not work out, most likely through another BS trade or signing Dwill.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Yep, no way Orlando trades Howard until after the All-Star game. Keep in mind, though, that K-Mart can't sign until the end of February or so. The ASG will of been played about then, and a trade is most likely to happen around then.

I'm pretty sure he can sign on February 16th (when the Xinjiang Guanghui Flying Tigers finish their season). The NBA All-Star game is 10 days after that.

[Robz4000]

I'm pretty sure he can sign on February 16th (when the Xinjiang Guanghui Flying Tigers finish their season). The NBA All-Star game is 10 days after that.
Yep, you're right. Still though, I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers/Orlando come to an agreement all but officially before then. The next few weeks for the Lakers and Magic will determine it all.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

I'm pretty sure he can sign on February 16th (when the Xinjiang Guanghui Flying Tigers finish their season). The NBA All-Star game is 10 days after that.

That's the earliest date that his team's season could be over. It could be later.

[dbestpro]

Pop will tell him the truth. 15-25 mpg depending on the matchup. Another team will promise him 30, he'll sign and end up playing 10. Reminds me of the Our Gang reruns. "They'll never learn."

[silverblk mystix]

Texas has great public schools. I'm sure his wife/kids would be fine living in the Dominion, it's a solid place to raise a family. I could see New York being a desirable place to live though. I guess I understand why some people like LA, but who the fuck really wants to live in Miami? What the hell is in Miami? Shitty shady ass clubs, and Pitbull.

You're kidding right? Trolling?

Miami has the ocean and a shitload of hot mulatta's running around the place...

It's not like a multi-millionaire family is going to move into the ghetto....they will find the upscale communities and there are some beautiful spots near the ocean that will give you a very nice vibe....

[DesignatedT]

Heat-If he wants to win and willing to take less $
Clippers- If he wants the $, big city and fame
Spurs - If we wants playing time and no bullshit. Sometimes veterans like this get tired of all the bs and appreciate the Spurs FO who will tell it like it is.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

we need a big that can fit in like a glove. Kaman comes to mind, Camby if he had been healthy

Kaman and Tim can't play together, as neither is mobile enough to check quick hybrid 4s.

[Kindergarten Cop]

That's the earliest date that his team's season could be over. It could be later.

You are correct that it could be later, if his team were to make the playoffs. As it stands, they are currently out of playoff position but have 5 of their 7 remaining games at home (where they are actually very good). The team that signs him may have to wait to get him on the court, but if the reports hold true we will know in a few days who he intends on signing with.

[TD 21]

So, because YOU haven't heard anything, it automatically means they aren't reaching out. Got it.

ChumpDumper, is that you?

No, because it's 2012 and damn near everything get's reported. I don't care how secretive the Spurs are, this isn't ten years ago or even five. If they were pursuing him to the extent they should be, I'm sure one of the more connected people would have found out. Just like they found out that they wanted to amnesty Jefferson -- if they could sign a suitable replacement --, that Butler was their top target in free agency, that they were offering Hill two years, etc.

SenorSpur, Martin to the Clippers makes sense. Unless they play the Lakers or Grizzlies in the playoffs, I'm sure their plan is to close games with Martin playing center, because Jordan is an offensive liability, in addition to being a foul machine.

[Russo21]

Hope Martin decides to sign with san antonio, that'd be huge for us.

Other more desirable teams have shown interest, but what's in the Spurs favour is that Martin is from Texas. So if the dude wants to play in and move back to his home state now is his chance.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

ChumpDumper, is that you?

No, because it's 2012 and damn near everything get's reported. I don't care how secretive the Spurs are, this isn't ten years ago or even five. If they were pursuing him to the extent they should be, I'm sure one of the more connected people would have found out. Just like they found out that they wanted to amnesty Jefferson -- if they could sign a suitable replacement --, that Butler was their top target in free agency, that they were offering Hill two years, etc.

SenorSpur, Martin to the Clippers makes sense. Unless they play the Lakers or Grizzlies in the playoffs, I'm sure their plan is to close games with Martin playing center, because Jordan is an offensive liability, in addition to being a foul machine.


The Miami Heat, San Antonio Spurs, Los Angeles Clippers, Atlanta Hawks and New York Knicks are pursuing free-agent forward Kenyon Martin, according to league sources.
story HERE (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7511134/sources-miami-heat-los-angeles-clippers-teams-pursuing-kenyon-martin)

[ace3g]

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Sources say NBA teams notified Thursday that Kenyon Martin is officially an unrestricted free agent and clear to sign w/NBA team when ready

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
My man @Chris_Broussard reported FRI that Heat/Spurs/Clips/Hawks/Knicks all after K-Mart. LA Times reports today Clips "like their chances"

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
From what I'm hearing: West teams have edge with K-Mart because minutes/role are his priorities and he knows West has lots of 4s to check

[spectator]

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
From what I'm hearing: West teams have edge with K-Mart because minutes/role are his priorities and he knows West has lots of 4s to check

is he talking about the Spurs with regard to having the edge? i do not see many minutes coming from the clippers, with griffin beasting like young-deer duncan.

the spurs are the only team on that list without a starting PF. the others have bosh, amare, griffin, jsmith; and martin knows he is not taking minutes away from those guys.

[ace3g]

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
K-Mart's clearance to return to NBA comes roughly two weeks earlier than expected. So it would appear his next stop will be sorted soon

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
After China failed to respond to request for Letter of Clearance for Kenyon Martin, FIBA made surprising decision to grant it, sources say.

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Belief was China wouldn't issue OK to let KMart play in NBA until Chinese season was done; FIBA ruled it OK in last 24 hours, sources say.

[Manu20]

IF the spurs can get Kmart..IMO Blair would be the odd man out.

[ace3g]

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Kenyon Martin is on visit to Atlanta today, intrigued w/ significant role he could play w/ Hawks, sources say. Clips, Heat high on list too.

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Because of FIBA clearance, KMart selection process will move faster, sources say. Scenario: Weekend decision, physical w/ team on Monday.

[DesignatedT]

I'm thinkin Clips

[ace3g]

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Martin's list of suitors also includes Knicks, Lakers, Spurs. NBA may make a Denver sign-and-trade an unlikely scenario, sources say.

[Sean Cagney]

IF the spurs can get Kmart..IMO Blair would be the odd man out.

They won't get Martin. None of these rumored things ever come true here.

[lefty]

lol he's gonna shit on San Antonio


Forget about Kmart

[Obstructed_View]

They won't get Martin. None of these rumored things ever come true here.

Antonio McDyess says hi.

[mystargtr34]

DeJuan may give the Spurs an adavantage here.. K-Mart must be thinking surely he can beat a 6'5 C out for a starting spot. plus im sure hes never heard of Splitter either.

[crc21209]

It would be awesome if the Spurs could get him, but it's highly unlikely.....

[Spur|n|Austin]

highly unlikely yes, but I think he'd be a great addition

[TDomination]

lol he's gonna shit on San Antonio


Forget about Kmart

this

just like when the hs football players make their college announcements during the army all star game, they select a hat out of 3. martin will have spurs, clippers, laker hats in front of him, and he will grab the spurs hat, then take a dump in it, only to grab the clippers hat after that

[Obstructed_View]

Martin's been skulled by Manu in the playoffs enough time that he might enjoy being his teammate for a change.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

If he were smart, he would sign somewhere just for the remainder of the season, and siphon some of that money that will be flying around this summer after the big fish are landed. I think he's selling himself short if he signs for three years, mini-mid. He's easily that dumb, though.

[cheguevara]

DeJuan may give the Spurs an adavantage here.. K-Mart must be thinking surely he can beat a 6'5 C out for a starting spot. plus im sure hes never heard of Splitter either.

:lol

fully agree

[024]

did spurs use the MLE on tj ford or do they still have a large chunk of that left? the money might convince kmart because the spurs can at least outbid the other teams. the starting spot and the money might actually convince him.

[024]

i dont think the lakers, clippers, and heat can offer him much money. they spent all their money on the offseason.

[024]

nvm, the clippers can offer the MLE as well.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Why would he want to go to a shit team like the clippers.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Why would he want to go to a shit team like the clippers.

You must not have cable...

[BRHornet45]

sons will Pop and Duncan tolerate Kenyon Martin's fake "thug" act? that dude is hands down, bar none the fakest player to ever play in the NBA. he tries so hard to act like a thug and as if he comes from the streets, yet that brotha graduated from Cinncy with a criminal justice degree lol. all them tats don't make you street homey.

[stxspurs]

Put the ball in the hoop...I don't give a damn if he is s fake thug or a cakeboy....winning games is all I care about

[angelbelow]

sons will Pop and Duncan tolerate Kenyon Martin's fake "thug" act? that dude is hands down, bar none the fakest player to ever play in the NBA. he tries so hard to act like a thug and as if he comes from the streets, yet that brotha graduated from Cinncy with a criminal justice degree lol. all them tats don't make you street homey.

While he did graduate the fake thug University with honors (earned by punching Corey Maggette for no reasons) he is still a good basketball player. The Spurs would definitely benefit from his presence, no question about that. But I don't see why the Spurs would be more lucrative/attractive than either LA teams and/or the Heat.

[TimmehC]

Why would he want to go to a shit team like the clippers.

Yeah, being the hottest ticket in the NBA and currently 2nd in the West probably has no appeal whatsoever.

[spectator]

While he did graduate the fake thug University with honors (earned by punching Corey Maggette for no reasons) he is still a good basketball player. The Spurs would definitely benefit from his presence, no question about that. But I don't see why the Spurs would be more lucrative/attractive than either LA teams and/or the Heat.

from what has been reported, martin desires a large role in a contender. none of those teams can offer 30+ mpg as starting PF. the spurs could sell him on that; then play him about 25-28 mpg during the regular season.

if he does get here, i would like to see duncan-martin-splitter getting 36-30-28 mpgs during the POs. that would leave 2 minutes per game for bonner and blair. i like that.

[Two10Whitey]

Somehow Bonner would end up playing more than Martin knowing Pop. He'll end up in a Clips jersey.

[Bruno]

Spurs shouldn't hesitate to guarantee him a starting spot. Even if it isn't Pop's way of coaching, the situation is desperate enough to do that.

[therealtruth]

The problem is Pop will always play Bonner 20+ minutes regardless of if they got Dwight Howard.

[GB20]

You must not have cable...

maybe he got stuck in year 2008:lol

[Sean Cagney]

Antonio McDyess says hi.

Horry as well and Barry! I guess we get some from time to time, but not since those days of 04-06 when we were contenders and signed role guys. He is going to sign with the sexier PICK IMO, Clippers or Heat.

[Obstructed_View]

Horry as well and Barry! I guess we get some from time to time, but not since those days of 04-06 when we were contenders and signed role guys. He is going to sign with the sexier PICK IMO, Clippers or Heat.

And I do appreciate the attempt at the reverse jinx.

BTW, Martin wasn't even the biggest fake thug on the Nuggets.

[dbestpro]

sons will Pop and Duncan tolerate Kenyon Martin's fake "thug" act? that dude is hands down, bar none the fakest player to ever play in the NBA. he tries so hard to act like a thug and as if he comes from the streets, yet that brotha graduated from Cinncy with a criminal justice degree lol. all them tats don't make you street homey.

He's not fake. He's undercover. He could be the undercover brother.

[SpurNation]

Spurs shouldn't hesitate to guarantee him a starting spot. Even if it isn't Pop's way of coaching, the situation is desperate enough to do that.

How is that enforceable? "...guarantee him a starting spot."

Offer...yes...no way guarantee. Unless it were conducive to certain performance expectations when on the court. And those may take up to 2 months to achieve while getting acclimated.

[Sobe_Kucks]

:pop:" If Kenyon signs here, he would be a great backup to Matty."
:nope K-Mart does not spread the floor enough to be a suitable back-up.

[Sean Cagney]

And I do appreciate the attempt at the reverse jinx.

BTW, Martin wasn't even the biggest fake thug on the Nuggets.

I said Clippers in there and he would not be coming here so don't worry (Np reverse jinx attempted just what I thought true). I hate whe I am right man :( I just don't see anyone wanting to come here in FA, not the sexy pick.

[Duncan2177]

Next Kaman