Losing The Right Way

[timvp]

While losing in Minnesota for the second time this season wasn't exactly fun to watch, in hindsight I believe the Spurs took a step in the right direction. If San Antonio keeps traveling in that direction, we could look back at the loss as the turning point of the season.

Why? The usage of Tiago Splitter. For the first time this season, Pop played Splitter big minutes despite circumstances that would normally have Pop going with a small lineup.

Let's review: Pop usually turns to a small lineup (featuring Matt Bonner or Richard Jefferson at power forward) when the Spurs are either having trouble scoring or facing a mobile power forward. Against the T'Wolves, the offense was anemic and Kevin Love is arguably the best mobile power forward in the game.

Yet despite the perfect recipe for a small lineup, Pop stuck to his guns and kept Tim Duncan and Splitter in the frontcourt until the bitter end. And it wasn't due to simply sticking with a hot lineup; the Spurs had one field goal in the final seven minutes of the game.

Looking back on it, would the Spurs have won if Pop would have gone with Bonner or small ball? It's possible. Maybe even likely. But in the big picture, Pop did the right thing.

Duncan and Splitter need to learn how to play together. More importantly, Duncan and Splitter need to learn how to win together.

So far this season, those two -- despite being two of the better players on the team -- haven't been an effective duo. Against the T'Wolves, that was once again the case.

Duncan and Splitter were on the court for 11:43 on Friday night. During that time, the Spurs were outscored 26-13. Extrapolate those numbers to 48 minutes and a Duncan and Splitter frontcourt was scoring at a 53-point pace.

Although Duncan's offense was forgettable throughout, the Spurs were scoring much more when Duncan was playing with Bonner or DeJuan Blair. And when Splitter was on the court without Duncan, the offense was at a relatively high 93-point pace.

But while the Spurs did better when Duncan and Splitter were divided, that doesn't matter in the long run. For the Spurs to maximize their fading championship hopes, Duncan and Splitter need to learn how to work together.

Make no mistake, it won't be easy. In today's NBA, both Duncan and Splitter's best position is center. And in the history of the league, it's very rare for a pair of centers to successfully co-exist.

Versus the T'Wolves, we witnessed Duncan and Splitter fighting each other for position. The teamwork we often see between Duncan and Blair or even between Splitter and Bonner doesn't exist between Duncan and Splitter yet. And just as importantly, the rest of the team has yet to figure out how to complement Duncan and Splitter when they're on the court together.

The only remedy is playing time. Duncan and Splitter have to play a lot together. Especially in pressure packed moments. Even, like in Minnesota, when the team is suffering in the short-term. Pop has to remain patient and resist the urge to place too much value in the here and now.

[dbestpro]

Duncan has to adjust like Robinson adjusted to Duncan. Timmy needs to focus on that rhythm jump shot, passing the ball, playing defense, and rebound when teamed with Splitter.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

:tu

hey timvp, what is it that keeps us from running high-lo post ball movement, the way David and Tim used to do?
Tiago is effective low, and Tim is relying on his jumper more....if Tim's jumper is on, can't we have them coexist on the court as Tim playing high and Tiago low?

[timvp]

hey timvp, what is it that keeps us from running high-lo post ball movement, the way David and Tim used to do?
Tiago is effective low, and Tim is relying on his jumper more....if Tim's jumper is on, can't we have them coexist on the court as Tim playing high and Tiago low?

That is the endgame. The way they'll fit together is Duncan taking the high post and Splitter going on the low block. But it's going to take some time to get there.

Duncan, even when playing the high post, is almost always involved in plays. With Splitter, he'll have to adjust to being a decoy more than ever.

Same with Splitter. When he's playing without Duncan, he's either posting up or setting a pick. He rarely plays on the weakside.

Against the T'Wolves, I think things were uglier than normal because Duncan had lost confidence in his jumper (he was like 1-for-7 outside of 15 feet) so he was fighting for space on the low block even when Splitter had already set up shop.

They're both smart players so I'm confident they'll figure it out. But it's going to be a huge transition for both players.

[Fabbs]

So it's only taken Pop two years to figure out a Splitter/Duncan front court might work in the playoffs.

I'll bet he'll figure out even more stuff in the next two years!

CIA Pop. He's won 4 titles you know.

[Solid D]

timvp, your wisdom and maturity impresses me more and more.

[DPG21920]

Nice post. This is something many of us have been clamoring for. It's not about a guarantee of winning, but operating with what you have to give yourself the best shot at making a run. I know I've adjusted expectations based on this team, but I still want them to play the right way and I'll be cool if they go down by doing what you described; I just don't want to see a team out there we know will fail for sure when we haven't exhausted all other options.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

That is the endgame. The way they'll fit together is Duncan taking the high post and Splitter going on the low block. But it's going to take some time to get there.

Duncan, even when playing the high post, is almost always involved in plays. With Splitter, he'll have to adjust to being a decoy more than ever.

Same with Splitter. When he's playing without Duncan, he's either posting up or setting a pick. He rarely plays on the weakside.

Against the T'Wolves, I think things were uglier than normal because Duncan had lost confidence in his jumper (he was like 1-for-7 outside of 15 feet) so he was fighting for space on the low block even when Splitter had already set up shop.

They're both smart players so I'm confident they'll figure it out. But it's going to be a huge transition for both players.


So then since both are over-involved, strong-side players, aren't we in relatively good shape since its our 'superstar' we're asking to learn how to play off the play more? Duncan is smart as hell, surely he can adjust...in fact I am honestly surprised we've seen them struggle the way we have so far.

We'd be in relatively worse shape if Splitter were more passive and we were asking him to be more active....it seems out of all the positions we could be in regarding Splitter and Duncan playing together that this is the most fortunate scenario to be in.

Then again maybe I'm just clawing and reaching for silver linings.

[DPG21920]

timvp, your wisdom and maturity impresses me more and more.

Do me next! Say something (nice) about me that sounds like its coming from a wise teacher. That can be your thing around here and posters will come from near & far to get their fortunes told by Solid D.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Not to mention that they held Minny to 87 on 44% shooting. The defense wasn't the issue for once. The offense reeked.

tbh, Splitter and Duncan can only play together on nights when Duncan's shot is falling. Otherwise, like last night, they'll just be in each other's way.

[DPG21920]

Not to mention that they held Minny to 87 on 44% shooting. The defense wasn't the issue for once. The offense reeked.


This part is critical because if Tim/Tiago can (in the face of about the worst possible match up with the Tim/Tiago pairing with Love being the best Stretch 4 in the game) consistently replicate the defense, the offense should figure itself out, especially with Manu back. It will be a net win, or at least has the potential to be with a style that gives them a shot to live up to their full potential whatever that may be.


This is something I wrote earlier on that I envisioned that goes along with the OP and with Splitter impressing with he has, I feel even stronger about it now. I just truly hope Pop has committed to this Tiago/Tim regardless.


I agree it has it's flaws, but the uptick in energy, hustle, rebounding, defense and ability to slash/draw fouls offsets the deficiencies overall IMO. In fact, look at MEM for a prime example of how that can work.

Starting: Conley/Sam Young/Allen/Gasol/Randolph severely lacks spacing and 3 PT shooting, but they were able to overcome. Obviously. Gasol/Randolph is better offensively than Tiago/Duncan, but they aren't really spaced a ton better because both Marc & Zach play deep in the paint (even if Zach can pick and pop).

Point is, that I think it will have it's flaws, but will be better suited to playoff winning.

Spurs have plenty of 3 pt shooters they can rotate in when need be.


Duncan has the ability to play a little further out (a la Zach Randolph) while Tiago operates mainly inside (a la Gasol). It's not ideal and that line up has flaws, but the Bonner/Tim/RJ line up has many more detrimental ones IMO.

[Russ]

While losing in Minnesota for the second time this season wasn't exactly fun to watch, in hindsight I believe the Spurs took a step in the right direction. If San Antonio keeps traveling in that direction, we could look back at the loss as the turning point of the season. . . .

Looking back on it, would the Spurs have won if Pop would have gone with Bonner or small ball? It's possible. Maybe even likely. But in the big picture, Pop did the right thing.

timvp, I thought I was the only one who felt this way.

I don't look at W/L as much as opponent's field goal percentage and whether the game was high scoring or low scoring.

I kinda like it when the Spurs play good had defense and lose. And then get pissed because that happened. And get better because that happened. It's the best of all worlds in some crazy way.

Good things always occur down the line in seasons like that.

The problems arise when the Spurs cut corners and stand around and hit a bunch of threes and then congratulate themselves while they play bad defense. They get soft. And then they get scared because they know deep down inside they're done when they stop hitting those threes.

That always leads to a bad ending . . .

[ducks]

send it to bowen who can send it to tp

[Solid D]

Do me next! Say something (nice) about me that sounds like its coming from a wise teacher. That can be your thing around here and posters will come from near & far to get their fortunes told by Solid D.

Haha. Sorry, I'm not gifted with predicting fortunes or the future.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

I think the main reason why Duncan and Splitter remained on the court together was because of Minnesotas bigs in Pekovic and Love. I didnt record the game so I didnt get a chance to watch over but it seems when Minnesota took out one of those two players Pop had either Bonner or Blair in the game, especially during the second and third quartes.
I dont think Pop is totally sold on the idea of playing both players together as a regular rotation. However, I do think when faced with teams that have a big front line then Pop would be more inclined to use Duncan and Splitter at the same time.

[jjktkk]

Hopefully having Duncan and Splitter, regularly on the court together, will be the norm from here on out.

[rmt]

We can only hope that TD/Splitter is the way it'll go, but it all depends on Pop. Recently, it seems that they've given up all hopes of a title and just want to get wins (to position themselves to get as many playoff games as possible). Why else the inexplicable benching of Splitter last year when he could have improved so much more with playing time?

TD needs to stay in the high post - he's not strong enough to back down the big men and not quick enough to get around them anymore. But yes, I loved the defense with 2 real big men in the paint. Offense shouldn't be a problem when Manu comes back. Hopefully, Pop sees that and doesn't revert to small ball because they lost to MIN.

[dbestpro]

Not to mention that they held Minny to 87 on 44% shooting. The defense wasn't the issue for once. The offense reeked.

tbh, Splitter and Duncan can only play together on nights when Duncan's shot is falling. Otherwise, like last night, they'll just be in each other's way.

If his shot is not falling then he needs to do the "other"things, just like big Dave did and let the offense go through TP and Splitter. You know Manu is gonna be looking for Splitter when he returns.

[Obstructed_View]

Someone should remind Duncan what Carlos Boozer did to him during the olympics, because he's doing the same thing to Splitter. Timmy used to run the high/low several times a game when five oh was there. He can learn to do it again. With his vastly improved confidence in his jumper, it's just a matter of time.

[silverblk mystix]

So it's only taken Pop two years to figure out a Splitter/Duncan front court might work in the playoffs.

I'll bet he'll figure out even more stuff in the next two years!

CIA Pop. He's won 4 titles you know.

In two more years...Pop might realize that there just might be someone who deserves more minutes than Bonner. Exciting.

[maverick1948]

Normally, Timvp, I agree with most of your posts. Sometimes the grades I think the team should get differ a little from yours but not that much. On this, I have to disagree with you. Losing or winning the right way in professional sports means having you best options in the game. The Minny game showed us that at this point in the season, Tim and Tiago are not ready to close a game together. I know we need to work them together to get ready for the playoffs but when the game is close like this one, we need to go for the win. Our best 5 on that night were Splitter, Bonner, Jefferson, Neal and Parker. I know the first thing that is going to be said "Bonner is a defensive liability". Well, Tim was an offensive liability and nobody seemed to be able to play D in the last few minutes of the game.

I agree that Tim and Tiago need to play more together but not at the expense of a winnable game.

[bbarry]

or not

looks like the spurs white flag will be waved WELL before crunch time, if this keeps up.

[Yuixafun]

It's not just a matter of relinquishing alpha dog duties in the paint.
Duncan has spent his whole career in the post.

That's why I always favored him over Garnett.

So for Tim, with just a summer of shooting jumpers to prepare, it's going to be a struggle breaking a lifetime devotion.

The skill set is there, but it's his habits and the way his brain has been wired over the years that needs to be adjusted.
Smarts and unselfishness go a long way, but he's still going to be awkward.

But envisioning a line up of Tim/Tiago/Kwa/Manu/Parker... seems to me a versatile group, with good defensive potential.


The experience and lessons learned from losing together are seeds for future success. :lobt2: