Different mindset = better Duncan?

[TD 21]

Is this just a surge or is it possible that he's going to stay at least close to his current level? It doesn't seem possible at his age, but he said something after the Rockets game that got me thinking. Something to the effect of (paraphrasing): I'm not worried about the next game or pacing myself, I'm just going to play as hard as I can.

I think he's sick of hearing about how old he is, not so much from outsiders, but from Pop. Pop doesn't say it, so much as he does perpetuate it, with the way he manages his minutes and constantly talks about the need to get him games off. That performance against the Hornets, at the end of 4-in-5, was a statement game to Pop. I think he'd also like to show a lot of the younger guys on the team that he's not just a high end role player and that he is still at least a star caliber player.

But that alone doesn't fully explain it. There's other factors at work here. The first is probably just law of averages. In other words, he's just progressing to the mean (from last season, that is). The second is the fact that he has a starting caliber center backing him up. The third probably stems from last season's playoffs. All of that rest during the regular season didn't amount to him going up a level come playoff time, so he probably figures there's no need to hold back as much during the regular season.

[callo1]

TD got retreads from BF Goodrich when he was there filming that Superbowl commercial.

[ElNono]

He is old and has clearly declined. He's still a crafty veteran that can give you good performances here and there. He just isn't a superstar caliber guy that can bring that steady level of production night in and night out. Nothing wrong with that.

[TD 21]

He is old and has clearly declined. He's still a crafty veteran that can give you good performances here and there. He just isn't a superstar caliber guy that can bring that steady level of production night in and night out. Nothing wrong with that.

Obviously. I'm not asking whether he's on his way back to being a superstar. I'm asking whether he can play a level up from last season, just based off of his having a different mindset. That doesn't mean he won't still have games where he looks ancient, it just means he won't be as content to pace himself as much as he has in recent seasons.

[DesignatedT]

He is old and has clearly declined. He's still a crafty veteran that can give you good performances here and there. He just isn't a superstar caliber guy that can bring that steady level of production night in and night out. Nothing wrong with that.

These are the posts that make no sense. Nobody is saying that he is a superstar. Not one person is saying that. Duncan can't bring steady level of production night in and night out? Not sure what you're definition is of steady level of production, but 14 pts, 8 rebs and 3 asts a game in 27 minutes is pretty good production if you ask me. It's pretty steady as well. Again, nobody is saying he's a superstar but acting like he isn't still a good big man and by far the best big man on this team is stupid.

And I understand you never said he wasn't a good big man but posts like this are still meant to diminish his production and/or ability. Acting like he shouldn't be on the floor or something.

[ElNono]

I didn't think he looked bad last season. He just had a terrible time playing extremely physical games (and the Grizz series turned out to be one of those). I thought this season struggled just as much in that scenario.

What changed for Duncan this season is that he's taking a lot more jumpers. About 10% more of his shots are from outside compared to last season and 20% more compared to 08-09...

[ElNono]

These are the posts that make no sense. Nobody is saying that he is a superstar. Not one person is saying that. Duncan can't bring steady level of production night in and night out? Not sure what you're definition is of steady level of production, but 14 pts, 8 rebs and 3 asts a game in 27 minutes is pretty good production if you ask me. It's pretty steady as well. Again, nobody is saying he's a superstar but acting like he isn't still a good big man and by far the best big man on this team is stupid.

And I understand you never said he wasn't a good big man but posts like this are still meant to diminish his production and/or ability. Acting like he shouldn't be on the floor or something.

What part doesn't make sense? You basically agreed with me. :lol

[jjktkk]

Tim has started to master when to amp it up, so to speak, knowing he cannot constantly bang down low evey game.

[DesignatedT]

What part doesn't make sense? You basically agreed with me. :lol

The fact that every time a poster praises Duncans game, gives him credit or says he's looking good out there, a handful of posters on here feel obligated to rebuttal it with "well he's just not a superstar anymore" or "he's not good enough to do this every night". Enough with this shit. Nobody is saying he is 03 Duncan, just that he's playing well. We don't have to constantly be reminded about how old he is. We know his age.

[ElNono]

The fact that every time a poster praises Duncans game, gives him credit or says he's looking good out there, a handful of posters on here feel obligated to rebuttal it with "well he's just not a superstar anymore" or "he's not good enough to do this every night". Enough with this shit. Nobody is saying he is 03 Duncan, just that he's playing well. We don't have to constantly be reminded about how old he is. We know his age.

Nobody is taking his good games away from him.

To me, the mention of 'taking it to another level' is a suggestion that he can produce like this at will. I disagree. He'll have good nights and not so good nights. As I said in my first post, it's expected and there's nothing wrong with that. His production 'on the decline' is still probably better than what any other big in our team will give us on a consistent basis.

Let's be frank here, a lot of these threads start with some sort of ejaculation over Tim's possibilities of being an All Star or some such...

[spurs10]

Tim is looking great. Is it possible for him to keep playing without injury? Who knows, but he's looking 'super' right now. As Sean said, "he's looking pretty good for 55!"

[timvp]

I think Duncan's level of play is going to go up and down all season. His current level right now is probably about the best he can play. He'll start playing worse again at some point and then the vultures will start circling. But if Duncan can play this well in the playoffs, that'd give the Spurs a fighting chance.

Last season, Duncan didn't peak in the playoffs, to say the least. That ankle injury he had at the end of last year didn't help. But he has outplayed Marc Gasol handily this season and Gasol is widely considered an all-star center ... so Duncan is still pretty damn good when he's feeling alright.

How man bigs in the NBA consistently play better than Duncan did tonight? I can't think of more than just a couple.

[BlackBellamy]

What changed for Duncan this season is that he's taking a lot more jumpers. About 10% more of his shots are from outside compared to last season and 20% more compared to 08-09...

There may be something to this. In particular, in regards to positioning in order to to create a few easy cuts for Tim (which seems to, in many people's opinion outside of stat-line, determine Tim's "throwback games"). As in, clearing room when a slasher cuts off a pick (not Tim) and the defense converges, leaving room for a dish to Tim for an easy step & slam/lay-up. His current mid-range positioning allows for a less contested paint. Tim does look spry as of late, no one can deny that.

[z0sa]

He is old and has clearly declined. He's still a crafty veteran that can give you good performances here and there. He just isn't a superstar caliber guy that can bring that steady level of production night in and night out. Nothing wrong with that.

:lol why are you such a huge pessimist?

[Yuixafun]

Bill Russell trophy or bust for Timmy in his twilight.

I think he has the number of great games he has left pegged.
Sort of like how Kobe knows how many dunks are in his legs.

So he'll bring his best for the critical games I believe.

Timmy beasting on the Griz is a statement and bolsters the psyche of the team, considering how they handled us last year.

Also yes less banging down low for Duncan will have a cumulative beneficial effect on his health and energy and also help create more synergy with line up strategies.

Only downside to that is he draws less fouls on bigs, but if they start respecting his outside game, Timmy is clever and can adapt.

I think Both Timmy and Tony have a greater sense of timing this year, insofar as when to assert their respective areas of mastery.

And Manu is a catalyst! He will make the game easier for his teammates while providing all star guard play and relentless spirit.

I'm reading the book on this year and the foreshadowing might be heading for a happy ending.

[Cry Havoc]

I think Duncan's level of play is going to go up and down all season. His current level right now is probably about the best he can play. He'll start playing worse again at some point and then the vultures will start circling. But if Duncan can play this well in the playoffs, that'd give the Spurs a fighting chance.

Last season, Duncan didn't peak in the playoffs, to say the least. That ankle injury he had at the end of last year didn't help. But he has outplayed Marc Gasol handily this season and Gasol is widely considered an all-star center ... so Duncan is still pretty damn good when he's feeling alright.

How man bigs in the NBA consistently play better than Duncan did tonight? I can't think of more than just a couple.

This.

34 year old Tim Duncan on a good night still routinely owns 95%+ of the other bigs in the league. A testament to his fundamentals, BBIQ, and talent.

As long as he can continue to hit that 16-18 footer with any frequency, he's going to be extremely difficult for nearly any big in the league to guard, 'cause he can still put it on the floor and draw fouls or get by them for 2.

[Obstructed_View]

I want him rested and able to play 40 minutes in the playoffs when he's needed.

[Muser]

:lol why are you such a huge pessimist?

Is he wrong?

[SA210]

I think it has a lot to do with self motivation

[Old School 44]

I want him rested and able to play 40 minutes in the playoffs when he's needed.

I sometimes wonder if this is the right approach. If you're not playing 30-35 minutes in the regular season are you going to have the conditioning to play 30-35 minutes or closer to 40 minutes in the playoffs?

[Ice009]

I sometimes wonder if this is the right approach. If you're not playing 30-35 minutes in the regular season are you going to have the conditioning to play 30-35 minutes or closer to 40 minutes in the playoffs?

I'd say no in general, but having said there are other factors to consider. It depends how well Tim is physically overall. One point to consider is that Tim may have also had injuries going into the playoffs the last few seasons. 2009 he was on one leg and then last season he may have still been dealing with an ankle sprain. Hard to say if it was from a lack of conditioning.

[BanditHiro]

he probably reads spurstalk and is tired of being called a tired old shit bag by fans and enemies alike

[cheguevara]

OP is onto something, I noticed TD has been playing with a different mindset lately.

Once he gets the ball, he knows what to do and usually does it quick, either shoot or pass it. Before, even last year or early in the season he thought too much. That is why he'd get stripped off the ball so often. Also he's slimmed down his repertoire a lot. He's doing more basic moves and it is getting him better results.

I think he realizes he's just another bigman now, he's thinking ahead and executing rather than letting it come to him. The OP is onto something, TD might have crossed to another level intellectually.

[Old School 44]

I'd say no in general, but having said there are other factors to consider. It depends how well Tim is physically overall. One point to consider is that Tim may have also had injuries going into the playoffs the last few seasons. 2009 he was on one leg and then last season he may have still been dealing with an ankle sprain. Hard to say if it was from a lack of conditioning.

Of course, overall health and nagging injuries will factor in, especially in this compressed season. I do believe, last year in particular, we just were unlucky with the injuries at the end of the season. That's was more responsible for our 1st round exit than Memphis. I guess I just wouldn't rest Tim, just for the sake of resting him. If he's healthy, and the game has some meaning, i.e., playoffs and position aren't locked, he's playing.

[Rummpd]

His PER is now according to Hollinger 13th among ALL West players (23rd in league), 3rd among players in the West Hollinger considers a center, and he is 2nd in the West in defensive rebounding rate among all players behind only Bynum and Jefferson. He is also 22nd in the league in blocks per game despite playing less minutes than other shot blockers. http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/blocks/sort/avgBlocks
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/blocks/sort/avgBlocks
In other words Duncan can still bring it and when motivated he can still carry a team IMO.

[Obstructed_View]

I sometimes wonder if this is the right approach. If you're not playing 30-35 minutes in the regular season are you going to have the conditioning to play 30-35 minutes or closer to 40 minutes in the playoffs?

It's more a matter of saving his body. I think he's got the wind to play 40. If you play him that many minutes the team is probably going to play a lot of games. Plenty of time to get into shape.

[ElNono]

:lol why are you such a huge pessimist?

:lol I call it being a "realist".

I love Tim Duncan. I just spent a lot of money to go see him (and hopefully Manu), because I don't know if I'm going to see Tim donning a Spurs shirt ever again.

That doesn't prevent me from giving my honest assessment about him. When I said Manu is on the decline too, nobody seemingly blinked an eye.

[therealtruth]

I sometimes wonder if this is the right approach. If you're not playing 30-35 minutes in the regular season are you going to have the conditioning to play 30-35 minutes or closer to 40 minutes in the playoffs?

Everyone's got to get minutes at some point in the regular season to be adjusted for the playoffs. Remember against the Grizzlies Duncan did pretty well in the first half but faded in the second half.

Another factor is that playoff minutes are more intense. If Pop takes it too easy during the regular season guys won't be able to adjust to the increased intensity in the playoffs. The Spurs got punched in the mouth by the Grizzlies and couldn't adjust to the intensity. The fact that they are fighting for wins more is definitely going to help them in the playoffs.

[cantthinkofanything]

Everyone's got to get minutes at some point in the regular season to be adjusted for the playoffs. Remember against the Grizzlies Duncan did pretty well in the first half but faded in the second half.

Another factor is that playoff minutes are more intense. If Pop takes it too easy during the regular season guys won't be able to adjust to the increased intensity in the playoffs. The Spurs got punched in the mouth by the Grizzlies and couldn't adjust to the intensity. The fact that they are fighting for wins more is definitely going to help them in the playoffs.

They got punched in the mouth because someone forgot they had an athletic 7 footer on the bench.

[WeNeedLength]

They got punched in the mouth because someone forgot they had an athletic 7 footer on the bench.

And Manu broke his arm...

[Dex]

Another thing to consider is that in the more recent years, Tim has usually taken a little while to find his rhythm and get into shape. It seems like the past two or three seasons, Duncan didn't REALLY start turning it on until a month or two INTO the season, and that was after a full, month long training camp and being able to condition with the team in the summer.

This year they only got two weeks of a quasi-training camp AND preseason, and it's hard to say exactly how well he stayed conditioned over the summer (though he appeared to be in pretty good shape coming in). So the team is just now hitting around the 2 month mark of training and playing and, sure enough, Timmy is starting to look a lot more like the Timmy we all know and love. For that reason, I am confident that this is the type of play we will be able to expect out of him more consistently going forward. Maybe not every night....but most of the time.

The only question now is (as it is every season) will his legs hold up through the season, and will he be able to avoid a late injury that will affect him in the playoffs?

[wildbill2u]

There may be something to the mindset and his personal analysis of how he should play the game at this stage of his career. Note that he has slimmed down for quickness and has moved to the outside more than in recent years. He may have determined that he can't bang down low any more and has decided that his jumper is still a great weapon.

It's been obvious in his responses after games to reporters questions about his level of playing, minutes, retirement, etc. that he doesn't like those questions and has his own opinion.

Never underestimate Tim Duncan's basketball IQ. Nor his pride. When he says he'll play 'til he's done, he probably means until he can no longer play at a level that is acceptable to his own determination of what it means to be Tim Duncan.

I've pointed out his decline in the past. I'm hoping that this seeming revival of old skills is permanent, but if not, let's just enjoy the ride for a while.

[FailureNotAnOption]

:lol I call it being a "realist".

Most pessimists do.

[ElNono]

:lol what's so pessimist about my post?

[FailureNotAnOption]

:lol what's so pessimist about my post?

I can't speak for zoso but I do find the mood and character of your post unfitting for this thread. I ask: He is "old and has declined" has what to do with his mindset?

[ElNono]

I can't speak for zoso but I do find the mood and character of your post unfitting for this thread. I ask: He is "old and has declined" has what to do with his mindset?

The OP:


Is this just a surge or is it possible that he's going to stay at least close to his current level? It doesn't seem possible at his age, but he said something after the Rockets game that got me thinking. Something to the effect of (paraphrasing): I'm not worried about the next game or pacing myself, I'm just going to play as hard as I can.

I think he's sick of hearing about how old he is, not so much from outsiders, but from Pop. Pop doesn't say it, so much as he does perpetuate it, with the way he manages his minutes and constantly talks about the need to get him games off. That performance against the Hornets, at the end of 4-in-5, was a statement game to Pop. I think he'd also like to show a lot of the younger guys on the team that he's not just a high end role player and that he is still at least a star caliber player.

Just responding to that, tbh

[Giuseppe]

Once Pop benched Duncan a few games ago it obviously got Tim's attention and he's reformed.

Just a damn shame it had to come to that.

[Leetonidas]

As opposed to not accepting you're becoming a tosb and regularly shooting 9-30, playing 44 minutes in blowouts, and losing :lol

[Giuseppe]

^Got ya!!!

muhahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Leetonidas]

tee hee?

[Giuseppe]

Yep.

[ElNono]

sup 'seppe... how's Lake Erie holding up?

[Giuseppe]

^I ain't been back since '97.

We'll go back one last time, me & my little Katie-girl.