Greenwald: Repulsive progressive hypocrisy

[Winehole23]

During the Bush years, Guantanamo was the core symbol of right-wing radicalism and what was back then referred to as the “assault on American values and the shredding of our Constitution”: so much so then when Barack Obama ran for President, he featured these issues not as a secondary but as a central plank in his campaign. But now that there is a Democrat in office presiding over Guantanamo and these other polices — rather than a big, bad, scary Republican — all of that has changed, as a new Washington Post/ABC News poll (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/poll-finds-broad-support-for-obamas-counterterrorism-policies/2012/02/07/gIQAFrSEyQ_story.html?hpid=z3) today demonstrates:

The sharpest edges of President Obama’s counterterrorism policy, including the use of drone aircraft to kill suspected terrorists abroad and keeping open the military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have broad public support, including from the left wing of the Democratic Party.
A new Washington Post-ABC News poll (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postabcpoll_020412.html)shows that Obama, who campaigned on a pledge to close the brig at Guantanamo Bay and to change national security policies he criticized as inconsistent with U.S. law and values, has little to fear politically for failing to live up to all of those promises.

The survey shows that 70 percent of respondents approve of Obama’s decision to keep open the prison at Guantanamo Bay. . . . The poll shows that 53 percent of self-identified liberal Democrats — and 67 percent of moderate or conservative Democrats — support keeping Guantanamo Bay open, even though it emerged as a symbol of the post-Sept. 11 national security policies of George W. Bush, which many liberals bitterly opposed.
Repulsive liberal hypocrisy extends far beyond the issue of Guantanamo. A core plank in the Democratic critique of the Bush/Cheney civil liberties assault was the notion that the President could do whatever he wants, in secret and with no checks, to anyone he accuses without trial of being a Terrorist – even including eavesdropping on their communications or detaining them without due process. But President Obama has not only done the same thing, but has gone much farther than mere eavesdropping or detention: he has asserted the power even to kill citizens without due process. As Bush’s own CIA and NSA chief Michael Hayden said this week (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/05/opinion/la-oe-mcmanus-column-drones-and-the-law-20120205) about the Awlaki assassination: “We needed a court order to eavesdrop on him but we didn’t need a court order to kill him. Isn’t that something?” That is indeed “something,” as is the fact that Bush’s mere due-process-free eavesdropping on and detention of American citizens caused such liberal outrage, while Obama’s due-process-free execution of them has not.

Beyond that, Obama has used drones to kill Muslim children and innocent adults by the hundreds (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/17/us-drone-strikes-pakistan-waziristan). He has refused to disclose (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/aclu-sues-to-force-release-of-drone-attack-records/2012/02/01/gIQArL6xhQ_story.html) his legal arguments for why he can do this or to justify the attacks in any way. He has even had rescuers and funeral mourners deliberately targeted (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/world/asia/us-drone-strikes-are-said-to-target-rescuers.html?_r=1). As Hayden said: ”Right now, there isn’t a government on the planet that agrees with our legal rationale for these operations, except for Afghanistan and maybe Israel.” But that is all perfectly fine with most American liberals now that their Party’s Leader is doing it:

Fully 77 percent of liberal Democrats endorse the use of drones, meaning that Obama is unlikely to suffer any political consequences as a result of his policy in this election year. Support for drone strikes against suspected terrorists stays high, dropping only somewhat when respondents are asked specifically about targeting American citizens living overseas, as was the case with Anwar al-Awlaki, the Yemeni American killed in September in a drone strike in northern Yemen.
The Post‘s Greg Sargent obtained the breakdown on these questions and wrote today (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/liberals-dems-approve-of-drone-strikes-on-american-citizens-abroad/2012/02/08/gIQAIqCzyQ_blog.html):

The number of those who approve of the drone strikes drops nearly 20 percent when respondents are told that the targets are American citizens. But that 65 percent is still a very big number, given that these policies really should be controversial.

And get this: Depressingly, Democrats approve of the drone strikes on American citizens by 58-33, and even liberals approve of them, 55-35. Those numbers were provided to me by the Post polling team.


It’s hard to imagine that Dems and liberals would approve of such policies in quite these numbers if they had been authored by George W. Bush.
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/08/repulsive_progressive_hypocrisy/

[ElNono]

Agree. Despicable.

[Nbadan]

Greenwald has become a one-buggy horse....

[Nbadan]

The survey shows that 70 percent of respondents approve of Obama’s decision to keep open the prison at Guantanamo Bay. . . . The poll shows that 53 percent of self-identified liberal Democrats — and 67 percent of moderate or conservative Democrats — support keeping Guantanamo Bay open, even though it emerged as a symbol of the post-Sept. 11 national security policies of George W. Bush, which many liberals bitterly opposed.

The devil is in the details....Obama is 100% for closing Gitmo, the trouble is what do you do to the prisoners, the worst of the worst by some accounts, who are still there? No other nation wants them, if you send them back to the country of origin they don't want them either, or they will rejoin the war in Afghanistan and Iraq...Congress has restricted Obama from bringing them to the U.S., even though some states have offered to hold them....we can play this game another 4 years or come up with an effective plan to either rehabilitate these guys or eliminate them.....but lets quit lying about Gitmo and Obama...

[Winehole23]

I wasn't here for the Bush days. Was Dan a hater of harsh, authoritarian practices he apologizes for now, or has he always been for them?

[Winehole23]

Rumsfeld said all the guys they let go (about 75%) were the worst of the worst, too.

Do you believe everything your government says?

[boutons_deux]

If the Gitmo boys are so nasty, why haven't they been tried in a military or other kangaroo court? no evidence? just hearsay?

[boutons_deux]

Gitmo, TSA theatrical harassment, etc, etc, prove how shit-scared weak America is, imagining boogeymen and their unlimted power to destroy America (while the 1% is really the boogeyman and is left free to trash America non-stop).

[CosmicCowboy]

I wasn't here for the Bush days. Was Dan a hater of harsh, authoritarian practices he apologizes for now, or has he always been for them?

:lol

This is definitely a massive flip flop for Dan...

[Nbadan]

I wasn't here for the Bush days. Was Dan a hater of harsh, authoritarian practices he apologizes for now, or has he always been for them?

Which specific authoritarian practice am I apologizing for again?

Have the mass civilian arrests by Obama begun yet?

:sleep

[Winehole23]

if I recall aright enabling legislation which you not only approved but defended against critics, was recently passed. (NDAA) Just now you apologized for Gitmo in Rumsfeldian way.

Do those count?

[Winehole23]

Greenwald has become a one-buggy horse....The Bushies said the same thing.

[baseline bum]

Sad shit that political leaders are always judged more by their speeches than actions by their voting bloc. Uncle Tom has been a disgrace to this nation.

[DarrinS]

Maybe Obama knows something now that he didn't know in his community organizing days.

[Winehole23]

due process for Americans got too expensive for Darrin, based on the mere surmise that some justification for curtailing them exists in secret briefings.

Darrin not only trusts big government to keep us safe, he apologizes in advance for any traditional American liberties it may violate in so doing.

How generous and trusting Darrin is of big government is when it comes to security...

[coyotes_geek]

Maybe Obama knows something now that he didn't know in his community organizing days.

He certainly knows that his own party developed a severe case of the NIMBY-ies once talk of relocating the gitmo detainees came up......

[boutons_deux]

It was the REPUGS, not the Dems, who screamed like hell about moving Gitmo people to high-security prisons on US soil, saying that would make the prisons targets for Islamic terrorism, which apparently is totally unstoppable (dickhead: "not if, but when")

[coyotes_geek]

Oh republicans screamed alright, but they didn't have the power to do anything about it. Yet it still didn't get done. At the end of the day, leaving gitmo open had widespread bi-partisan support.

[Winehole23]

and the Dems folded faster than a card table. gutlessness never wins.

[boutons_deux]

the REPUGS have the power and hate media attack dogs to spew paranoia and fear-monger to their ignorant base, to power to intimidate, etc, etc. It worked. Repugs obstruct ANYTHING Obama and Dems want to do.

[coyotes_geek]

The dems didn't want to close gitmo. If they did, it would have been done already.

[TeyshaBlue]

All hail the omnipotent GOP.
http://files.sharenator.com/24027_1347064630071_1034944672_1041434_8186188_n_D arth_Vader-s500x599-137400-580.jpg

[coyotes_geek]

the Senate voted overwhelmingly Wednesday to keep the prison at Guantanamo Bay open for the foreseeable future and forbid the transfer of any detainees to facilities in the United States.

Democrats lined up with Republicans in the 90-6 vote that came on the heels of a similar move a week ago in the House
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/20/senate-votes-to-block-fun_n_205797.html)

[boutons_deux]

Guantanamo Ten Years Later: "It's a Disgrace," Says Expert Andy Worthington


Brad Jacobson: Is the US government any closer to closing the Guantanamo Bay prison today than it was five years ago?

Andy Worthington: No. In fact, it's worse than it was five years ago. President Bush was pretty much free to come up with diplomatic arrangements with various countries to release prisoners. It was a pretty straightforward process once they made their decisions they didn't want to hold people. It's become incredibly complicated under President Obama. And I would say that that started with his lack of caution.

He first of all said: "Here's an executive order, We're going to close Guantanamo in a year." And then he didn't do anything. He set up a task force to review the cases. They went through it all very carefully; they were conscious they didn't want to make any mistakes. And during that time, in the absence of any public activity, it allowed his critics to start gathering. It allowed the Republicans to realize that they could pick up and dust off the old fear card that Dick Cheney had been so good at playing and start spreading negative propaganda about Guantanamo.

And over the last few years, what's happened is that, over and over again, Congress has enacted legislation to tie the president's hands on Guantanamo, preventing him from buying or adapting a prison on the US mainland to bring the prisoners to, preventing him from bringing prisoners to the US mainland to, first of all, face a trial, and, then, for any reason at all. Plus the kind of really crazy provisions that have been made in the last year - to demand that the secretary of defense certify that it's safe to release prisoners, for example.

The administration was also prohibited from releasing a prisoner to a country where there was a single alleged case of recidivism, of somebody allegedly returning to the battlefield.

The other problem is that the very right-wing judges in the DC circuit courts, for very plainly ideological reasons, have been revising the detention rules and the requirements for the habeas petitions to make sure that no prisoners get to leave Guantanamo by any legal means.

The rest of it is Obama's own failings, and severe and unprincipled opposition from Congress.

http://www.truth-out.org/guantanamo-ten-years-later-interview-guantanamo-expert-author-and-filmmaker-andy-worthington/1328120

[Winehole23]

you saw the vote totals...still blaming it on the Repugs? They don't push the buttons for Dems on votes...

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Megaupload was clearly more despicable than Gitmo.....

[Winehole23]

you agree both are despicable?

:tu

[Viva Las Espuelas]

No. I'm just speaking on lip service, but anything to make you feel accomplished. I guess, dot dot dot

[Winehole23]

you seem to have some trouble saying what you really mean, but that's nothing new

[Capt Bringdown]

pl_HGEXq_aM

[DarrinS]

Megaupload was clearly more despicable than Gitmo.....

lol

[Nbadan]

you saw the vote totals...still blaming it on the Repugs? They don't push the buttons for Dems on votes...

This is a republic. There is simply no political will from the people to close GITMO on Congress, on a side note, at least your not blaming Obama anymore...

like it or not, you are part of the minority on this issue...

[Nbadan]

This was Dubya's mess, and like all his messes, he and the do-nothing GOP Congress, dumped it at the feet of the Obama administration..

[Capt Bringdown]

This was Dubya's mess, and like all his messes, he and the do-nothing GOP Congress, dumped it at the feet of the Obama administration..

And Obama's poor leadership has normalized the mess and led us deeper into darkness.

[Wild Cobra]

Since libtards have no better solutions, they realize they have to keep Gitmo in use. To0o bad they are too stupid to know they are stupid.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is a republic. There is simply no political will from the people to close GITMO on Congress, on a side note, at least your not blaming Obama anymore...

like it or not, you are part of the minority on this issue...

In order for political will to be meaningful you need parties that will truly be representative and compete for your votes. They both collude on certain issues and apparently 'national security' is one of those things. Banking regulation is another.

There was a shitload of political will in the 2008 election and political theory should have demonstrated a landslide of that nature giving a mandate. What happened? Nothing.

If you haven't been paying attention the biggest complaint about Obama is that he has not done what he says that he would do. Its a very valid point.

This 'Republic' is not representative of a damn thing anymore.

[boutons_deux]

False equivalence, getting stuck with the momentum of maintaining/terminating dubya's shit in the face of Repug obstructionsism is not at all the same as dubya's responsibility for starting the shit of Gitmo, Iraq, Afghanistan.

[Winehole23]

too bad Obama and the Dems are too gutless to stand up to them. it's hilarious that you blame the GOP for the Dems' lack of testicular fortitude.

[coyotes_geek]

lol momentum. What a crock. The republicans pretty much got thrown out on the street unilaterally in 2008, yet the democrats and their huge congressional majorities were powerless to stop "republican momentum"? Please.

It's not just Gitmo. It's the Bush tax cuts, the Patriot Act, bailouts, and a whole slew of other Bush initiatives that democrats continue to support today. The evidence is pretty clear picture that for the most part democrats liked Bush's policies. They just didn't like that they were coming from Bush. As always, democrats = republicans.

[boutons_deux]

momentum in the Senate is Repugs holding them Dems from getting 60 seats, pretty damn easy. The Dems have never had 60 in Senate under Obama

[Winehole23]

Or, Obama basically agrees with Bush's national security and foreign policy, only pretended to disagree in 2008, and continues to normalize his radical abridgements of due process even now. The GOP didn't force Obama to sign the NDAA, or his DOJ to exercise prior restraint on the internet.

[coyotes_geek]

Bush never had 60 republicans in the senate. Not that he needed them though since the democrats pretty much went along with whatever bush wanted.........

[TeyshaBlue]

Good grief. We're still stuck on "Bush did it"?:rolleyes


"He did it first!" was weaksauce on the schoolyard playground. Now it's the board progressive battle cry.

[Winehole23]

like it or not, you are part of the minority on this issue...So what? Nothing dishonorable about that, and swimming with crowd doesn't guarantee that one's viewpoint is meritorious, only that it is popular.

[TeyshaBlue]

http://www.sugar-gliders.com/images/store/crickets.jpg

[Winehole23]

can't really expect hypocrites to own it. defeats the whole purpose: seeming to be what you aren't.

[Nbadan]

And Obama's poor leadership has normalized the mess and led us deeper into darkness.

Deeper in darkness :lmao

put down the pipe....

[Nbadan]

In order for political will to be meaningful you need parties that will truly be representative and compete for your votes. They both collude on certain issues and apparently 'national security' is one of those things. Banking regulation is another.

There was a shitload of political will in the 2008 election and political theory should have demonstrated a landslide of that nature giving a mandate. What happened? Nothing.


What happened is that Gitmo became a prison for enemy combatants and not the torturous, murdering rape room it was under the Bush administration...big difference...

[Nbadan]

If you haven't been paying attention the biggest complaint about Obama is that he has not done what he says that he would do. Its a very valid point.


Wing nut spin....Obama has accomplished more of his campaign promises in his first term than any other President in modern history.....

[Nbadan]

Or, Obama basically agrees with Bush's national security and foreign policy, only pretended to disagree in 2008, and continues to normalize his radical abridgements of due process even now. The GOP didn't force Obama to sign the NDAA, or his DOJ to exercise prior restraint on the internet.

:lol

The bush administration and the do-nothing GOP congress were raping kids and killing innocent Iraqi and Afghan citizens and your biggest complaint about Obama is that he closed down Mega-upload.....nice..

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What happened is that Gitmo became a prison for enemy combatants and not the torturous, murdering rape room it was under the Bush administration...big difference...

What happened in Obregon is that the Grumbol delivered the baton yet the emperor was not satisfied. He issued a decree demanding that all of the Agrenovs become pios to the Way of Thought lest they succumb to the lichrender.

[Winehole23]

:lol

The bush administration and the do-nothing GOP congress were raping kids and killing innocent Iraqi and Afghan citizens and your biggest complaint about Obama is that he closed down Mega-upload.....nice..No. My biggest gripe is the two tiered system of justice that US citizens are now eligible for.

The which Obama has not only upheld, he has pioneered novel techniques of mechanized, totally extrajudicial, American justice against American citizens. Normalizing and extending the Bush security regime is a biggie.

So, apart from treating US natives as second-class citizens (or, if you like, the revival of outlawry) and putting Americans on secret kill lists, prior restraint on the internet probably comes in third for me.

It's still a biggie. It's very freaking important too. The slighting way you referenced Megaupload, as if that were a trifle, a thing not to be taken seriously, reflects poorly on the bona fides of your sympathy, but then again, it certainly isn't the only such case.

Would you like to discuss some of the others?

[Winehole23]

apparently not. you lose again, Dan.

[Isitjustme?]

1517898760298418180

[Th'Pusher]

1517898760298418180

:lol Greenwald fully embracing the grift.