pros and cons for rj - captain jack switch

[spectator]

i have not watched stephen jackson too much this season - except for his 34 point torturing of the spurs in january. i know that he knows our system and he is malcontent on the bucks' roster.

thus, i am curious to hear from fellow spurstalkers what are some pros and cons (mostly from the spurs' perspective - but you may add the bucks if you so prefer) of pulling a switch between the 2. milwaukee seems to have benched him for his behavior - similar to the blatche situation in d.c. - and rj would provide them with some ROI.

they both make around $9.2 mil. the spurs may have to throw in another player (bench-warmer) or some 2nd draft picks to make up for rj's extra year of contract. however, i don't want to focus too much about the details of the transfer, but on the roster improvement. is captain jack worth getting or is he pulling a tom petty on a full moon fever?

[Mel_13]

One insurmountable con: Bucks aren't taking RJ back.

[timvp]

Neither team would do the deal. As a fan, I'd be happy with the trade ... even though it's doubtful it'd make the Spurs any better.

[spectator]

in fairness to the enigma at the end, here are the options:

1. Free Falling
2. A Face in the Crowd
3. Yer so Bad
4. Alright for Now
5. Zombie Zoo

[ChumpDumper]

srsly?

[spectator]

One insurmountable con: Bucks aren't taking RJ back.

i am just hoping they won't pay him $9 mil a year for 15-20 min per game.

just speculating, would you do this (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=778ytgo) with the spurs sending a 1st round pick as well?

[ChumpDumper]

i am just hoping they won't pay him $9 mil a year for a 15-20 min bench-warmer.

just speculating, would you do this (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=778ytgo) with the spurs sending a 1st round pick as well?I'll spell it correctly.

Seriously?

[Mel_13]

i am just hoping they won't pay him $9 mil a year for 15-20 min per game.

just speculating, would you do this (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=778ytgo) with the spurs sending a 1st round pick as well?

The Bucks aren't taking RJ back.

RJ will be a Spur until they use the amnesty on him.

[Em-City]

Sjax isn't even trying on that team anymore. Skiles has killed his spirit

[TDMVPDPOY]

i take the chucker in jax then the clown rj who like to take his time whether to shoot or pass...fkn

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Sjax isn't even trying on that team anymore. Skiles has killed his spirit

Uh, no. Jack's "holding out" for a new contract without actually holding out, another reason we shouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. Skiles is correctly trimming his minutes to match his effort.

[acoelho1]

No way the Bucks do the trade but of course it would make us better. For one, SJ is not soft like RJ and I would expect him to be motivated on a contending team. Second, he knows Pop doesn't put up with BS so I expect him to do the right things. I would do the trade in a sec if the Bucks were open to it, which they are not.

[Bill_Brasky]

God damn another Sjax thread? The dude's a fuckin million years old, let it go.

[Kewni Leonard]

No. Even in his prime, Jackson was an inefficient offensive player. I certainly don't want him at this age. Jefferson is actually adapting his game quite nicely to the spurs system/age. The problem is getting him to do it in the playoffs, when it really matters... a la Bonner.

[Interrohater]

Why is it when people talk about a trade around here, they add "some bench warmer" or "filler" on the Spurs side? Besides RJ and a little bit of Bonner (he has his uses), who the hell is "filler"? Do we currently have any throw away players that we would be okay with letting go as a sweetener in a trade?

[timvp]

Jefferson is actually adapting his game quite nicely to the spurs system/age. The problem is getting him to do it in the playoffs, when it really matters... a la Bonner.

Either you set the bar really low or that didn't come out right.

[Kewni Leonard]

Either you set the bar really low or that didn't come out right.

? He shot 44% from 3 last year and is shooting 43% this year. Those are where his opportunities come from. Popobitch is a very overrated coach, he can't adjust his system to fit the talent with which he's presented, so I would tip my hat to the job Jefferson has done in reinventing his entire game after 10 years in the NBA.

[TJastal]

? He shot 44% from 3 last year and is shooting 43% this year. Those are where his opportunities come from. Popobitch is a very overrated coach, he can't adjust his system to fit the talent with which he's presented, so I would tip my hat to the job Jefferson has done in reinventing his entire game after 10 years in the NBA.

What does James Jones make a year? He could essentially play the role Jefferson is playing right now, imho.

[manufan10]

? He shot 44% from 3 last year and is shooting 43% this year. Those are where his opportunities come from. Popobitch is a very overrated coach, he can't adjust his system to fit the talent with which he's presented, so I would tip my hat to the job Jefferson has done in reinventing his entire game after 10 years in the NBA.

:lol Now I've seen it all.. Pop is overrated and is the one holding Jefferson back.. instead of the reality that Jefferson is a soft, overrated scrub.

[manufan10]

:repost:

[therealtruth]

:lol Now I've seen it all.. Pop is overrated and is the one holding Jefferson back.. instead of the reality that Jefferson is a soft, overrated scrub.

The exact same thing happened to Finley. The Spurs system is where good slashing dynamic players become jump shooters.

Jefferson needs alot of touches and too be a 1-3 option on offense to be useful to any team.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

The exact same thing happened to Finley. The Spurs system is where good slashing dynamic players become jump shooters.

Jefferson needs alot of touches and too be a 1-3 option on offense to be useful to any team.

Mike Finley hadn't been a dynamic slashing player for probably 2-3 years before he got here.

[spectator]

i do admit that the topic has been discussed before; however, only in the past several days/week, did we find out that SJ is not satisfied with his situation in milwaukee, which relegated him to the bench.

if the bucks think that SJ is a bad influence on their starting point guard (apparently they are close friends), they may be open to a deal more than people think. regardless, i am still unconvinced that SJ would be an improvement over RJ. people seem more willing to bash the trade for not happening than assuming a hypothetical presumption and reasoning both sides of the trade.

[ChumpDumper]

people seem more willing to bash the trade for not happening than assuming a hypothetical presumption and reasoning both sides of the trade.Yes, I am more willing to bash it for not happening.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

i do admit that the topic has been discussed before; however, only in the past several days/week, did we find out that SJ is not satisfied with his situation in milwaukee, which relegated him to the bench.

if the bucks think that SJ is a bad influence on their starting point guard (apparently they are close friends), they may be open to a deal more than people think. regardless, i am still unconvinced that SJ would be an improvement over RJ. people seem more willing to bash the trade for not happening than assuming a hypothetical presumption and reasoning both sides of the trade.

He's unsatisfied with his contract, specifically the fact that while he is under contract for next year, he's angling for an extension that will kick in when he's like 36. Since MIL won't give it to him, he's decided to be a absolute shit and loaf. That won't change with a change in uniform.

Oh, and this has been an issue since training camp in December.

[spectator]

He's unsatisfied with his contract, specifically the fact that while he is under contract for next year, he's angling for an extension that will kick in when he's like 36. Since MIL won't give it to him, he's decided to be a absolute shit and loaf. That won't change with a change in uniform.

Oh, and this has been an issue since training camp in December.

you are right - he has been moody about his contract situation since training camp. my point is that the entire situation has gotten significantly worse in the past week, culminating with his benching and his decision not to answer the question regarding his position with the bucks, for fear of getting fined. (aka: i am not happy here, but i am smart enough to avoid getting fined)

[Wild Cobra Kai]

You don't want that in your locker room.

[HarlemHeat37]

Jax is one of the biggest chuckers and most inefficient players in NBA history, at this point..pass..

[Kewni Leonard]

What does James Jones make a year? He could essentially play the role Jefferson is playing right now, imho.

Right, but can you blame Jefferson for this? No, you have to blame the coach. He isn't utilizing his abilities.

[Kewni Leonard]

:lol Now I've seen it all.. Pop is overrated and is the one holding Jefferson back.. instead of the reality that Jefferson is a soft, overrated scrub.

20PPG seasons like clockwork say hello. Say what you want about Jefferson, he's played the role he's been given to perfection the past 2 regular seasons. If you want him to score more, you've got to give him the ball, and you've got to give it to him at times and places where he's set up to succeed, not fail. Popobitch doesn't seem to grasp this concept. He did the same thing with Beno Udrih. What happens? He goes to Sacramento is automatically a starting-quality NBA point guard. Hedo Turkoglu? Ditto.

[jjktkk]

20PPG seasons like clockwork say hello. Say what you want about Jefferson, he's played the role he's been given to perfection the past 2 regular seasons. If you want him to score more, you've got to give him the ball, and you've got to give it to him at times and places where he's set up to succeed, not fail. Popobitch doesn't seem to grasp this concept. He did the same thing with Beno Udrih. What happens? He goes to Sacramento is automatically a starting-quality NBA point guard. Hedo Turkoglu? Ditto.

And what does lottery bound Sacramento do with Udrih? Ships him out to the Bucks. lol, please come up with a better arguement. :lol

[Kewni Leonard]

And what does lottery bound Sacramento do with Udrih? Ships him out to the Bucks. lol, please come up with a better arguement. :lol

Please refute that he immediately became a starting-quality NBA point guard with something other than opinion and smiley faces.

[jjktkk]

Please refute that he immediately became a starting-quality NBA point guard with something other than opinion and smiley faces.

A starting quality point guard who can never keep his starting pg job. Hows that?

[Kewni Leonard]

A starting quality point guard who can never keep his starting pg job. Hows that?

How's that? Because they drafted an all-star level PG.

[stephen jackson]

why we ever let him go :(

[therealtruth]

Neal plays the SJax role on this team in the ability to take and make big shots.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Neal plays the SJax role on this team in the ability to take and make big shots.

[spectator]

i am just hoping they won't pay him $9 mil a year for 15-20 min per game.

just speculating, would you do this (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=778ytgo) with the spurs sending a 1st round pick as well?

i'm going to say this trade wasn't that far fetched.

[lefty]

Noooooooo



I don't want to read the cons



Dont ruin it for me :madrun

[spectator]

i believe the link might not work now - but essentially it's rj for the captain

[silverblk mystix]

Yes, I am more willing to bash it for not happening.

Cummdumpster with the Huge Ball of FAIL!!!!

lol minor league expert...

[Chomag]

Yes, I am more willing to bash it for not happening.

Lmao like Crow much?

[TDMVPDPOY]

Jax is one of the biggest chuckers and most inefficient players in NBA history, at this point..pass..

i take this over rjs passiveness on this team

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Cummdumpster with the Huge Ball of FAIL!!!!

lol minor league expert...

The Bucks would of never made the trade, luckily he got traded to Golden State, who's in full tank mode now

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Chump dumper just got served, like that time he professed to independently verify doctorate level steel physical chemistry analysis in the 9/11 commission report

[anonoftheinternets]

The Bucks would of never made the trade, luckily he got traded to Golden State, who's in full tank mode now

lol .. i dont envy logging in as you with that username.... :lol

[William Hung]

No. Even in his prime, Jackson was an inefficient offensive player. I certainly don't want him at this age. Jefferson is actually adapting his game quite nicely to the spurs system/age. The problem is getting him to do it in the playoffs, when it really matters... a la Bonner.

lot of fail in that post

[spectator]

lol .. i dont envy logging in as you with that username.... :lol

probably has it saved in the browser - otherwise, ouch!

[rascal]

Looks like the general feeling was Jackson wasn't very good and most did not want him.

But some of those same posters are doing a 180 now he is back with the Spurs.

Another case where a player is not good if he is not on the Spurs but once he is traded to the Spurs he is going to make a huge impact and get the team to the title.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol Chump.

[gospursgojas]

srsly

[buttsR4rebounding]

Pros:
1. Leonard gets more time on the court.
2. SJax is a proven playoff performer.
3. SJax has some of the swagger the Spurs need.
4. Already knows the system so his learning curve should be short.
5. Saves the Spurs over $11 million that would have been paid in the amnesty.

Cons:
1. Kills cap space for next year since he cannot be amnestied.
2. Give up a #1 pick in what is generally considered a deep draft.
3. Doesn't fill a need: back up PG or Big.
4. SJax's skills have been rapidly declining.
5. Potential issues because the Spurs surely won't give him the extension he was angling for in Milwaukee.

Overall, I don't like this trade from a basketball standpoint. I think it was done primarily for Pro #5. The Spurs basically gave up Cap space and a #1 pick in order save the $11 million plus. I understand that and from a BB standpoint I can live with it (as if I had a choice) if 1. the Spurs get Lorbek at a Splitter-like contract. 2. The Spurs knew that when Duncan re-signs it won't be for mid-level type money so they probably weren't going to get a significant FA anyway. Now let's hope Kaman gets bought out and likes Mexican food!

[Russo21]

Neither team would do the deal. As a fan, I'd be happy with the trade ... even though it's doubtful it'd make the Spurs any better.

so many dumb know it all people in here:lol

[Russo21]

The Bucks aren't taking RJ back.

RJ will be a Spur until they use the amnesty on him.

lol another smartass:lol

[lurker23]

Everyone who said the Bucks never would have taken RJ back were right.

The trade to GS opened up an opportunity for the Spurs that they jumped on.

[DPG21920]

Russo, did the Spurs trade with the Bucks? Those who were wrong were the ones who said RJ is flat out untradeable regardless of the situation. Even then that was a widely held belief and it's really surprising the circumstances that allowed this to happen.

[angelbelow]

so many dumb know it all people in here:lol

You realize that you're making yourself look like a gigantic idiot right?

[therealtruth]

Is SJax going to be OK with Leonard eating into his minutes or event starting over him? The guy still needs to work on being a true professional.

On the plus side his contract comes of the books next year and is more tradeable. Plus he's a proven playoff performer and better competitor and playmaker. He also offers some insurance if Manu gets hurt.

[Russo21]

Wasn't with the bucks DPG but it was RJ for Jackson like i said. And angelbelow no it's you who looks like the smartass know it all idiot now, looking back over your comments to say it wont happen and rj isnt going anywhere, too bad

[Obstructed_View]

so many dumb know it all people in here:lol

Milwaukee still wouldn't do the deal. Thanks for the comic irony, though.

[TwelveGs210]

Pros - Richard Jefferson gets to live in an area where assless chaps are no longer frowned upon.

[wildbill2u]

Few of the Jax lovers ever go look up his stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksst02.html.

The guy is a .41% FG shooter for his career (low average for a SG/SF and barely passable .337 3pt shooter for his career. His best 3pt percentage year was only .36% so he's relied on shooting A LOT to build up his scoring average and that can (and has) create problems when he becomes a black hole where the ball goes in and never comes out.

He's been on nine teams and never was happy and eventually all of them were unhappy with him. He will continue to act immaturely here and will be a cancer in the lockeroom. What were Buford and Pop thinking?

How's that for a con?

[therealtruth]

Few of the Jax lovers ever go look up his stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksst02.html.

The guy is a .41% FG shooter for his career (low average for a SG/SF and barely passable .337 3pt shooter for his career. His best 3pt percentage year was only .36% so he's relied on shooting A LOT to build up his scoring average and that can (and has) create problems when he becomes a black hole where the ball goes in and never comes out.

He's been on nine teams and never was happy and eventually all of them were unhappy with him. He will continue to act immaturely here and will be a cancer in the lockeroom. What were Buford and Pop thinking?

How's that for a con?

Just hope he's on his best behavior and learns to be more efficient on offense. He also adds more competitiveness to the team in the playoffs. And if it doesn't work out the Spurs will have his expiring contract as a trade chip.

[therealtruth]

Russo, did the Spurs trade with the Bucks? Those who were wrong were the ones who said RJ is flat out untradeable regardless of the situation. Even then that was a widely held belief and it's really surprising the circumstances that allowed this to happen.

I think this deal can possibly be a seen as a win regardless of whether SJax is >= RJ because the Spurs have a more trade friendly contract as opposed to one that was virtually untradeable.

[GSH]

Few of the Jax lovers ever go look up his stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksst02.html.

The guy is a .41% FG shooter for his career (low average for a SG/SF and barely passable .337 3pt shooter for his career. His best 3pt percentage year was only .36% so he's relied on shooting A LOT to build up his scoring average and that can (and has) create problems when he becomes a black hole where the ball goes in and never comes out.

He's been on nine teams and never was happy and eventually all of them were unhappy with him. He will continue to act immaturely here and will be a cancer in the lockeroom. What were Buford and Pop thinking?

How's that for a con?

Jefferson's career 3P% got a lot higher since he came to the Spurs. If you compare his 3P% for the rest of his career to SJax, they are pretty close to the same. I've said this elsewhere, but IF SJax sat in the corner and shot nothing but uncontested 3's, I bet his percentage would go up similar to Jefferson's.

But here's a stat that's really worth noting. Jefferson's career 3P% is .371 - but his career playoff 3P% is .309. If you're building a team for the regular season RJ is a great choice.

I can't disagree, though, that his attitude is the single biggest thing that will determine whether this was a great trade, or a really bad trade. If he really buys into the system, he won't be chucking up so many bad shots, either, and that will automatically make him a more efficient player. If he tries to force himself into the position of being the go-to guy, or if he tries to prove a point about how the Spurs never should have let him go before (he's capable of both) then he could be worse for the team than RJ even.

I don't think there will be any middle ground.

[Obstructed_View]

Few of the Jax lovers ever go look up his stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksst02.html.

The guy is a .41% FG shooter for his career (low average for a SG/SF and barely passable .337 3pt shooter for his career. His best 3pt percentage year was only .36% so he's relied on shooting A LOT to build up his scoring average and that can (and has) create problems when he becomes a black hole where the ball goes in and never comes out.

He's been on nine teams and never was happy and eventually all of them were unhappy with him. He will continue to act immaturely here and will be a cancer in the lockeroom. What were Buford and Pop thinking?

How's that for a con?

Few of the people who look at stats ever saw Jack play for the Spurs.

[Sean Cagney]

Few of the Jax lovers ever go look up his stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksst02.html.

The guy is a .41% FG shooter for his career (low average for a SG/SF and barely passable .337 3pt shooter for his career. His best 3pt percentage year was only .36% so he's relied on shooting A LOT to build up his scoring average and that can (and has) create problems when he becomes a black hole where the ball goes in and never comes out.

He's been on nine teams and never was happy and eventually all of them were unhappy with him. He will continue to act immaturely here and will be a cancer in the lockeroom. What were Buford and Pop thinking?

How's that for a con?He worked out in the 03 playoffs though so hey maybe he can help again! Forget a %, what did Horry shoot career from three? But when it mattered he came through, something Jefferson will never do.
Few of the people who look at stats ever saw Jack play for the Spurs.

I agree.

[DPG21920]

Who cares if Jax sucks basketball wise? Spurs weren't doing Jack with RJ around, so they don't lose anything. Only upside.

[Sean Cagney]

Who cares if Jax sucks basketball wise? Spurs weren't doing Jack with RJ around, so they don't lose anything. Only upside.

I would hardly say he sucks, he had some very good years too. I agree though if he did suck here, what did DICK do besides suck?

[Drewlius]

lol @ trying to use SJax's shooting percentage as an indication of how well he will do on the Spurs. You trying to tell me the looks he was getting in G-State/Charlotte/Milwaukee were even in the same realm as of what he'll be looking at now?