Who will be remembered as the better player?

[jag]

I haven't seen any Kobe vs. Bron threads around here so let's talk about it.

[Giuseppe]

He's ostensibly half way thru and has O NBA Titles.

Please.

[resistanze]

He's ostensibly half way thru and has O NBA Titles.

Please.

But, so was MJ.

[z0sa]

He's ostensibly half way thru and has O NBA Titles.

Please.

LeBron James has never had an arguable top 5 all-time player in his prime, either.

[Giuseppe]

LeBron James has never had an arguable top 5 all-time player in his prime, either.

I don't do that shit, Z. SpursFan does that.

[z0sa]

I don't do that shit, Z.

You just did, by calling TEAM accomplishments into the picture.

[Giuseppe]

You just did, by calling TEAM accomplishments into the picture.

I don't see team mentioned anywhere in the Thread Title.

[z0sa]

:rolleyes

[JoeTait75]

Kobe will be remembered as the Russell.

LeBron will be remembered as the Chamberlain.

[Giuseppe]

^The guy is from the best location in the nation.

Joe Tait

[mercos]

Lebron has the talent to go down as the greatest player of all time, but to even sniff the same air as Kobe he is going to have to win multiple titles. He's 0-2 on the big stage right now and he had no excuse last year. I believe he will ultimately get there, but if their careers ended today it would be Kobe by a mile.

[bus driver]

Lebron has the talent to go down as the greatest player of all time, but to even sniff the same air as Kobe he is going to have to win multiple titles. He's 0-2 on the big stage right now and he had no excuse last year. I believe he will ultimately get there, but if their careers ended today it would be Kobe by a mile.

+1


i also think it will hurt lebron if he starts winning when kobe retires.

[Giuseppe]

If he hasn't rung by the time Kobe retires he'll never ring. Kobe will probably go another 10 years.

[Killakobe81]

But, so was MJ.

Lebron is no MJ ...
But i think he does have a sht to be better than Kobe and MJ ... but right now it's Kobe. Question. Is this based on current accomplishments or potential?

[hater]

Kobe. Lebron has proven he's got no brainpower. and you dont' grow brainpower over time.

[Kewni Leonard]

Kobe may be remembered as the better player, but ONLY because he was a Laker and most NBA fans have an IQ under 80.

[Magua]

tbh the clock is ticking for Lebron in this discussion. Kobe's game still works because it's constantly evolving and adapting. Once Bron loses his quickness and gets older he wont be able to ######beast his way to the basket anymore and his game will be severely limited imo

[Kewni Leonard]

tbh the clock is ticking for Lebron in this discussion. Kobe's game still works because it's constantly evolving and adapting. Once Bron loses his quickness and gets older he wont be able to ######beast his way to the basket anymore and his game will be severely limited imo

Why wouldn't LeBron's game adapt to age? LeBron shoots better than Kobe and is a better passer.

[Killakobe81]

Kobe may be remembered as the better player, but ONLY because he was a Laker and most NBA fans have an IQ under 80.

Pot, meet kettle?

I kid, KL ...:toast

[resistanze]

Lebron is no MJ ...
But i think he does have a sht to be better than Kobe and MJ ... but right now it's Kobe. Question. Is this based on current accomplishments or potential?

Oh he's not even in the discussion of MJ. I was responding to Cubby when he said he's 1/2 way through and hasn't rung yet. There's still time for LeBron, but his team better win 3-4 titles in the next 5 seasons.

[Magua]

Why wouldn't LeBron's game adapt to age? LeBron shoots better than Kobe and is a better passer.

Too bad he only likes doing the latter on the big stage when his team needs him.

[stretch]

most NBA fans have an IQ under 80.

including you, except i dont think yours could possibly be better than 42

[Kewni Leonard]

Too bad he only likes doing the latter on the big stage when his team needs him.

LeBron just makes the right play. I'll take that over 25% shooting in the last 24 seconds of a game. That's what I do know.

[Kewni Leonard]

including you, except i dont think yours could possibly be better than 42

Sick burn.

[Magua]

LeBron just makes the right play. I'll take that over 25% shooting in the last 24 seconds of a game. That's what I do know.

More power to ya, brah:tu I guess there's no shame in being the 4th option behind Wade, Bosh, and Chalmers in the 4th quarter of championship games.

[Kewni Leonard]

More power to ya, brah:tu I guess there's no shame in being the 4th option behind Wade, Bosh, and Chalmers in the 4th quarter of championship games.

LeBron is always the #1 option, however, he is not selfish and doesn't make stupid basketball plays like Kobe Bryant. See: Field Goal Percentage, AST:TO Ratio

[Magua]

LeBron is always the #1 option, however, he is not selfish and doesn't make stupid basketball plays like Kobe Bryant. See: Field Goal Percentage, AST:TO Ratio

Tbh 6-8' 250lb first options should exploit being guarded by Jason Kidd in the clutch.

Not everybody has a killer instinct though, so don't beat yourself up, kid.

[Kewni Leonard]

Tbh 6-8' 250lb first options should exploit being guarded by Jason Kidd in the clutch.

Not everybody has a killer instinct though, so don't beat yourself up, kid.

Killer instinct = not conscious of what is a good basketball play, I guess.

Also, Jason Kidd is one of the best defenders of his era. Not exactly a solid argument. Of course he has size on him, but the Mavs were playing a zone the entire series, which, btw, got called for 0 defensive 3 seconds. lol Stern

[mavsfan1000]

Lebron never had a big man. lol Bosh

[cheguevara]

LeBron shoots better than Kobe

:lol what?

[Magua]

:lol

tbh, would you call having a 6-8' 250 pound mid-20's MVP going against a 38 y/o PG a matchup advantage?

[Kewni Leonard]

:lol what?

No idea why that would be funny. Check the 3 point percentages the last couple of years. Not even close. Just because you jack up a ton of shots and occasionally make some doesn't make you a good shooter.

[Kewni Leonard]

:lol

tbh, would you call having a 6-8' 250 pound mid-20's MVP going against a 38 y/o PG a matchup advantage?

Yes, but it's not the complete mismatch you're making it out to be, particularly when you consider it was a zone defense.

[Frenzy]

If you put "at passing" at the end of that title this becomes a landslide.

[endrity]

Right now it's not even a debate. It's Kobe, period. LeBron's last two playoffs have ended in epic failures. Can't blame him for Orlando 2009, he actually played out of his mind in that series.

Still all time greats don't do what LeBron did in the Finals last year. He's got a major redeeming job ahead of him.

[Magua]

it's not the complete mismatch you're making it out to be

Yes, it is. Dallas constantly switched from zone to man (and vice-versa) throughout the series.

To suggest that a great player like LeBron couldn't get his in the Finals b/c of an intermittent zone defense means he was unable to adapt his game, killing your previous point about his ability to adapt and evolve.

Now we've come full circle in why Kobe will be more remembered.

[Kewni Leonard]

Yes, it is. Dallas constantly switched from zone to man (and vice-versa) throughout the series.

To suggest that a great player like LeBron couldn't get his in the Finals b/c of an intermittent zone defense means he was unable to adapt his game, killing your previous point about his ability to adapt and evolve.

Now we've come full circle in why Kobe will be more remembered.

Because of stellar performances in the Finals like 6/28. lmfao

And no, they played a zone about 70 percent of that series. Chandler was literally parked in the paint not guarding anyone. Again, lol Stern.

[Kewni Leonard]

I would be interested to see LeBron's NBA Finals PER for his career vs. Kobe's... even though 2 of LeBron's worst performances of the playoffs came in the Finals, and one was where he was basically a rookie and had no business being in the Finals to begin with. He also did not have Shaquille O'Neal on his team.

[Magua]

Because of stellar performances in the Finals like 6/28. lmfao

And no, they played a zone about 70 percent of that series. Chandler was literally parked in the paint not guarding anyone. Again, lol Stern.

:lol70 percent? Where'd you come up that #, tbh?

Kobe shot 6/24=won finals
Lebron too scared to shoot=lost finals

I wish I could change history and make you a happier, less bitter person, but I'm afraid those were the results.

[Kewni Leonard]

Kobe shot 6/24=won finals
Lebron too scared to shoot=lost finals

What on Earth would that prove? That Kobe Bryant has been carried by his teammates his entire career? If that is your point, I agree whole-heartedly.

[Magua]

What on Earth would that prove?

That Kobe went swinging, and Lebron struck out looking.

The Carlos Beltran of the NBA:lol

[pass1st]

Hard to say, LBJ isn't the golden child since he left the Cavs. Around the world, most people will say Kobe is the best in the league even though he isn't.

[Kewni Leonard]

Hard to say, LBJ isn't the golden child since he left the Cavs. Around the world, most people will say Kobe is the best in the league even though he isn't.

Goes back to what I was saying about people being brain-dead.

[JamStone]

Probably Kobe. Even if LeBron wins multiple championships and Finals MVPs, there is the taint of him having to join up with Wade and Bosh in order to do so. Similar to what Kobe would have been remembered for had he not won two more championships post Shaq. In terms of historical legacy, LeBron made it tougher for himself because he did that. Might have been different had he gotten players to join him in Cleveland. But because he went to Miami to another superstar's team, because it was joining a guy who had won an NBA championship and Finals MVP, he has a steep uphill battle to take that tarnish off. Might be unfair, but I think that's something that will be sidenoted on his NBA resume.

[DPG21920]

Definitely unfair. Kobe having the ability to draw players to LA and constantly have the most stacked teams shoud count against him then. Without the lopsided Pau deal it's likely you don't see this version of the Heat.

No one is going to CLE so can't hold that against him.

[Juggity]

LeBron wins 2 championships with dominant play, he surpasses Kobe, period.

One to redeem his previous failure and one to make his mark as alpha dog. I honestly think he'll win more than two, but two is a starting point. He'll be regarded as better than Kobe nearly everywhere but LA and Cleveland if that happens. After all, Lebron's got to try to win without a dominant big on his team, rather unlike Kobe who had the great fortune of playing with two or more dominant bigs over the course of his career. Bosh, of course, is a pale imitation of the prime Gasol/Shaq/Bynum turnstile.

The Lakers have won in spite of Kobe, not because of him. If Lebron puts up numbers in the finals consistent with his play so far this season, or with his play in the ECF last year, I think he will have begun to redeem himself already, and the Heat should take the LOB with relative ease.

[manufan10]

As of right now, it would be Kobe. LeBron has a ways to go before he can catch him. Even then, like JamStone said, the fact that he had to leave his team and join a proven player will be held against him.

[DAF86]

Right now Kobe but if Lebron wins around three rings in his career he will easily be considered the better player. When it's all said and done (barring any major injury) Lebron will be right up there in terms of pts, rbds, assts, stls, etc.

[Magua]

Lots of Lebron apologists in the San Antonio fanbase.:lol

It's almost as if they have an ulterior motive in pulling for the guy...almost:lol

[DAF86]

If Lebron wins multiple championships, regular season MVP's and finals MVP's nobody would give a shit about him joining the Heat, tbh.

[MavDynasty]

Sup magua

[Kewni Leonard]

Lots of Lebron apologists in the San Antonio fanbase.:lol

It's almost as if they have an ulterior motive in pulling for the guy...almost:lol

No ulterior motive. He's the best in the NBA and also a team player; unlike the Jordan's and Kobe's(this is the only way I'd mention Kobe in the same sentence as Jordan, in regards to being an asshole) of the world. Doesn't get better than that.

[Kewni Leonard]

Lest not also forget... LeBron absolutely dominates Kobe in head-to-head matchups, despite having an inferior team every time he's taken the floor in Cleveland, and his first season in Miami as well.

[Magua]

Sup magua

sup b...


No ulterior motive.

We believe you.:lol

[lakerddan]

What on Earth would that prove? That Kobe Bryant has been carried by his teammates his entire career? If that is your point, I agree whole-heartedly.
You are an absolute idiot, and a hater. Lebron had his chance in Cleveland to be the man and failed, so he goes to Miami to ride Wade's and Bosh's coattails to a Championship and fails again miserably. Not only did he come up small in the finals he was downright scared, frozen like a child in the spotlight. 9 yrs zero championships.7 years in Cleveland in the weak eastern conference only to get swept in the one finals trip. Despite having the best record 3 other times Lebron couldn't even make it back to the finals only getting embarrassed in the playoffs. The man has not done a thing in the NBA to compare him to MJ or Kobe, but fools like you want people to buy into this Hogwash. Win a Championship as the man and then win 4 more and maybe we'll talk..

[stretch]

Tbh 6-8' 250lb first options should exploit being guarded by Jason Kidd in the clutch.

tbh Kidd put the clamps on Kobe in the playoffs.

On the other hand, Kidd mostly guarded Wade in clutch time, not Lebron. Marion was on Lebron mostly.

[Magua]

tbh Kidd put the clamps on Kobe in the playoffs.

On the other hand, Kidd mostly guarded Wade in clutch time, not Lebron. Marion was on Lebron mostly.

Agreed on the Kobe part, but Kidd was on LeBron for numerous possessions towards the end of the pivotal game 5. LeBron is taller and larger than Kobe too, and presents a much bigger mismatch for someone like Kidd.

[Kewni Leonard]

You are an absolute idiot, and a hater. Lebron had his chance in Cleveland to be the man and failed, so he goes to Miami to ride Wade's and Bosh's coattails to a Championship and fails again miserably. Not only did he come up small in the finals he was downright scared, frozen like a child in the spotlight. 9 yrs zero championships.7 years in Cleveland in the weak eastern conference only to get swept in the one finals trip. Despite having the best record 3 other times Lebron couldn't even make it back to the finals only getting embarrassed in the playoffs. The man has not done a thing in the NBA to compare him to MJ or Kobe, but fools like you want people to buy into this Hogwash. Win a Championship as the man and then win 4 more and maybe we'll talk..

Wait, wait... I mean, I could point out every sentence of your failings, but I want to focus on your last sentence; are you saying that Kobe Bryant has 5 championships as 'the man'? LOL You're a good troll.

[stretch]

Agreed on the Kobe part, but Kidd was on LeBron for numerous possessions towards the end of the pivotal game 5. LeBron is taller and larger than Kobe too, and presents a much bigger mismatch for someone like Kidd.

I agree, Lebron could have done better in the moments where he had Kidd on him. And with his expanded post game and improved shot selection this year, I don't think the Mavs could get fortunate with a matchup like that this time around, if they were to meet in a rematch.

[JamStone]

There's something much less tangible between Kobe and LeBron that we've seen and talked about. LeBron doesn't seem to know how to close games. Now you can fault Kobe plenty for his poor shot selection, selfish play, and inability to score efficiently. But in the final moments of a game, do you ever question his confidence? Do you ever think he's scared of the moment?

That's the criticism on LeBron that I think some people want to draw the line. In the NBA Finals last year, look at his performances in the fourth quarter, particularly coming down the stretch of each close game. He was either missing long jumpers, turning the ball over, or just simply disappearing from the moment. In particular, the Finals games the Heat lost, LeBron was woefully ineffective or non-existent when it came down to winning time. 3-for-13 with 5 turnovers in the fourth quarter of the 4 losses. And that includes him going 3-for-5 in the series clinching game 6 where he made some meaningless buckets in an already decided game and series. So in the game 2, 4, and 5 Heat losses, LeBron was 0-for-8 from the field with 4 turnovers in the fourth quarter. The best player in the league can't do that, not in a close game, not with the season and championship on the line.

I think history might remember things differently. If LeBron can dominate for 3 quarters putting up 30/8/8 type numbers and the Heat still win championships, it matters less what he does in the fourth quarter. History won't care as long as they win. Shaq isn't thought of less as a great player for not being a go-to guy at the end of games because of his free throw shooting. Nor will it matter for LeBron if they win. But if they don't win and he continues to fail in the clutch moments, it will be something that will be written on his tombstone. 25 years from now, people won't be watching these games played now. They'll look at youtube highlights and go on basketball-reference.com and look up box scores like we do with players from the 70s and 80s. Stats won't talk about what LeBron failed to do in the fourth quarter of playoff games. They'll just see the 30/8/8 and the 2 League MVPs and look at his championship count. We as fans right now can see his failings in the clutch because we watch the games. Winning championships can skew what history writes.

[Killakobe81]

LeBron wins 2 championships with dominant play, he surpasses Kobe, period.

One to redeem his previous failure and one to make his mark as alpha dog. I honestly think he'll win more than two, but two is a starting point. He'll be regarded as better than Kobe nearly everywhere but LA and Cleveland if that happens. After all, Lebron's got to try to win without a dominant big on his team, rather unlike Kobe who had the great fortune of playing with two or more dominant bigs over the course of his career. Bosh, of course, is a pale imitation of the prime Gasol/Shaq/Bynum turnstile.

The Lakers have won in spite of Kobe, not because of him. If Lebron puts up numbers in the finals consistent with his play so far this season, or with his play in the ECF last year, I think he will have begun to redeem himself already, and the Heat should take the LOB with relative ease.


No he won't. to surpass Kobe he needs at least 3 probably 4 ...to pass MJ he needs 5 maybe 7 ...

Many regard MJ as the GOAT over Kareem even though Mj has 5 and Kareem 6 so Lebron doesnt have catch Kobe in rings to surpass him. But he needs to get at least 3 or 4 ...

[mavs>spurs]

Kewni is getting pinked anyway guys. It's really simple, you suck ass you get pinked.

[lakerddan]

Wait, wait... I mean, I could point out every sentence of your failings, but I want to focus on your last sentence; are you saying that Kobe Bryant has 5 championships as 'the man'? LOL You're a good troll.
Kobe has 2 as the man. But my point is that Lebron has zero and if he gets one in the near future he will still have Zero has the man because Wade's the man in Miami..

[lakerddan]

Also Kobe vs Lebron head to head.

15gms Kobe 27.5 pts 5.4 reb 5.5 ast

Lebron 27.1 pts 7.0 reb 7.3 ast. Yeah he just kills Kobe.

[Kewni Leonard]

Also Kobe vs Lebron head to head.

15gms Kobe 27.5 pts 5.4 reb 5.5 ast

Lebron 27.1 pts 7.0 reb 7.3 ast. Yeah he just kills Kobe.

Yes. He does. What does that equal out to in PER? What percentages do they shoot? More importantly, what is the W/L total?

[Kewni Leonard]

Kewni is getting pinked anyway guys. It's really simple, you suck ass you get pinked.

You would think after your embarrassment yesterday you would not try to get my attention.

[Proxy]

We'll remember Kobe as the Black Mamba... cold blooded killer.

LBJ is a better talent, but nothing more than an arrogant dude that comes up short in the fourth and defers to Wade. Legacies aren't built on potential.

Kobe easily, for now... not that it means anything. For all we know, LBJ goes back to Cleveland and pulls a Dirk... who knows.

[Kewni Leonard]

Kobe has 2 as the man. But my point is that Lebron has zero and if he gets one in the near future he will still have Zero has the man because Wade's the man in Miami..

lol @ Wade being the man when LeBron is unquestionably the best player in the league.

[lakerddan]

lol @ Wade being the man when LeBron is unquestionably the best player in the league.
Yeah until the 4th quarter or the playoffs, esp. the finals when he becomes the frozen one..

[Kewni Leonard]

Yeah until the 4th quarter or the playoffs, esp. the finals when he becomes the frozen one..

Who has a better career playoff PER? LeBron or Kobe?

[mavs>spurs]

You would think after your embarrassment yesterday you would not try to get my attention.

It's not my fault that you suck ass. Try putting in a pacifier to help you resist the urge to suck something else.

[JamStone]

Who has a better career playoff PER? LeBron or Kobe?

This is why I hate when people resort to using one, individual stat to try to make an argument. It's simply not enough.

Do you know that Tracy McGrady has a better career playoff PER than Magic Johnson?

[Killakobe81]

Who has a better career playoff PER? LeBron or Kobe?

There are stats that argue Malone is better than Duncan do you really want to continue down this path? :lol

Rings are the main reason I take Duncan over Malone. I also didnt realize how much Malone dominates Duncan in regualar season stats. I dont care I watched both play since their rookie years, Duncan is better.

Back on topic, Lebron has a great case here and Like I said will very likely pass Kobe. He just needs 3 or 4 rings to do so ...

[Kewni Leonard]

This is why I hate when people resort to using one, individual stat to try to make an argument. It's simply not enough.

Do you know that Tracy McGrady has a better career playoff PER than Magic Johnson?

I almost feel bad that you're serious here. You realize that PER is not one stat, but the combination of a ton of different stats?

[Killakobe81]

This is why I hate when people resort to using one, individual stat to try to make an argument. It's simply not enough.

Do you know that Tracy McGrady has a better career playoff PER than Magic Johnson?

yep. and only 5 less rings and dozens upon dozens less playoff series wins ...

[mavs>spurs]

:lol you guys are trying to talk basketball with a troll. this isn't kewni's first rodeo here, he's been banned multiple times in the past for being either an idiot or a troll. I don't care which he's doing, the dude is dumb as fuck.

[JamStone]

I almost feel bad that you're serious here. You realize that PER is not one stat, but the combination of a ton of different stats?

Yes I do. There was a recent discussion in another thread. I realize that. It's still a stat that doesn't take everything into consideration and context.

Do you think Tracy McGrady is the better career playoff performer than Magic Johnson?

[Kewni Leonard]

There are stats that argue Malone is better than Duncan do you really want to continue down this path? :lol

Rings are the main reason I take Duncan over Malone. I also didnt realize how much Malone dominates Duncan in regualar season stats. I dont care I watched both play since their rookie years, Duncan is better.

Back on topic, Lebron has a great case here and Like I said will very likely pass Kobe. He just needs 3 or 4 rings to do so ...

You also realize Karl Malone played with the greatest pure PG of all-time, correct? Just making sure that you are aware of that. Tim Duncan had Avery Johnson and Tony Parker passing him the ball.

[Kewni Leonard]

Yes I do. There was a recent discussion in another thread. I realize that. It's still a stat that doesn't take everything into consideration and context.

Do you think Tracy McGrady is the better career playoff performer than Magic Johnson?

Of course I don't, but I don't slob Magic's knob, either.

[mavs>spurs]

Do you think Tracy McGrady is the better career playoff performer than Magic Johnson?

:rollin

[Kewni Leonard]

Moreover, Kobe's playoff(where he's supposedly so superior to LeBron) PER is not even close to LeBron's. LeBron literally puts him to shame in playoff PER. Literally laughable when you compare them.

[Killakobe81]

You also realize Karl Malone played with the greatest pure PG of all-time, correct? Just making sure that you are aware of that. Tim Duncan had Avery Johnson and Tony Parker passing him the ball.

You mean isnt Tony Parker a top 3 MVP candidate upstairs Tony Parker? That guy? finals MVP tony Parker? Multiple all-star Tony Parker? Who did Malone play with as good as David Robinson in the frontcourt?

[Kewni Leonard]

You mean isnt Tony Parker a top 3 MVP candidate upstairs Tony Parker? That guy? finals MVP tony Parker? Multiple all-star Tony Parker? Who did Malone play with as good as David Robinson in the frontcourt?

Surely you're joking about being top 3 in the MVP race. LMFAO

Finals MVP was a travesty, Duncan deserved it, without question. Then again, the same type of people vote Kobe Bryant to the all-defensive first team.

Multiple all-star. LMAO OK he went twice. The guy is a fringe all-star, at best. Any time he's made it, he's barely made it and there's question to whether or not he deserved it. Also, he is a scoring PG, which strengthens my point.

Malone didn't have anyone as good as Robinson, but Robinson was quickly a shell of his former self after Duncan was drafted.

[Killakobe81]

Surely you're joking about being top 3 in the MVP race. LMFAOFinals MVP was a travesty, Duncan deserved it, without question. Then again, the same type of people vote Kobe Bryant to the all-defensive first team.

Multiple all-star. LMAO OK he went twice. The guy is a fringe all-star, at best. Any time he's made it, he's barely made it and there's question to whether or not he deserved it. Also, he is a scoring PG, which strengthens my point.

Malone didn't have anyone as good as Robinson, but Robinson was quickly a shell of his former self after Duncan was drafted.

didnt say I agree I was just perusing the quality threads upstairs and saw the interesting case being made ... heck ESPN has him 7th. Not much of a stretch for fans on Parker's team forum to not think he should be higher ...

[Kewni Leonard]

didnt say I agree I was just perusing the quality threads upstairs and saw the interesting case being made ... heck ESPN has him 7th. Not much of a stretch for fans on Parker's team forum to not think he should be higher ...

You have to realize, most of these people just live in SA and don't really know anything about the game.

As for him being 7th on ESPN, even that is way too high. He's playing well, for him, but the success is due to great overall team play. For example, I don't know where this team would be without Splitter right now.

[Killakobe81]

You have to realize, most of these people just live in SA and don't really know anything about the game.

As for him being 7th on ESPN, even that is way too high. He's playing well, for him, but the success is due to great overall team play. For example, I don't know where this team would be without Splitter right now.

:rollin
:lmao

No wonder your fellow spur fans are shittin' on ya, when you make such endearing remarks about your silver and black brethren ...

[JamStone]

Of course I don't, but I don't slob Magic's knob, either.

I'd imagine LeBron would find that awkward and uncomfortable.

[Kewni Leonard]

:rollin
:lmao

No wonder your fellow spur fans are shittin' on ya, when you make such endearing remarks about your silver and black brethren ...

I don't really care about making friends with anyone. I am here to educate.

[LnGrrrR]

This is a pretty obvious answer.

[Kewni Leonard]

This is a pretty obvious answer.

So LeBron then?

[jag]

Not everybody has a killer instinct though, so don't beat yourself up, kid.

This is what I think it comes down to. I think it's apparent that psychologically Bron just isn't cut from the same cloth as Kobe.

Shaq and Pau (and random scrubs like Artest) carried Kirby's ass at times, but for better or worse, he always wanted the ball in crunch time. I've never gotten the sense that a moment was too big for him.

I've always hated on Kobe for trying to be Michael. From the way he talks, to his mannerisms, to the way he conducts interviews, he always came off as someone pretending to be Mike. His act is somewhere in between fake, awkward and pathetic. That being said, at least that nigga is doing everything he can to be like (or better than) the best of all time. Nine seasons in, and I'm not exactly sure what LeBron wants to be.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Nine seasons in, and I'm not exactly sure what LeBron wants to be.

He wants to be liked.

[nowhereman523]

Kobe won only a single (and clearly undeserved) MVP, couldn't do anything without an all-NBA big man and the greatest coach of all time, and intentionally quit on his team Rick Barry style in game 7 against Phoenix.

I could never imagine a LeBron team missing the playoffs or winning < 50 games in his prime. He's that good. I don't like LeBron, but Kobe Bryant has never played as well as LeBron has consistently played these last few years, and in case people forget, Kobe has had his share of playoff meltdowns. Oh yeah and he's only 27.

In terms of dominance, it's like comparing Moses Malone (LeBron) to Clyde Drexler (Kobe).

[nowhereman523]

The future will be incredibly unkind to Kobe Bryant. Once people stop living in the Hollywood aspect of all of this and break down the stats and look at things objectively, he will hopefully be remembered where he belongs: outside the top 20 of all time, and squarely behind Tim, Dirk, KG, Lebron, and others in his era.

[Kewni Leonard]

Damn, nowhereman523, I really couldn't have said it better myself. Cheers. :toast

[endrity]

The future will be incredibly unkind to Kobe Bryant. Once people stop living in the Hollywood aspect of all of this and break down the stats and look at things objectively, he will hopefully be remembered where he belongs: outside the top 20 of all time, and squarely behind Tim, Dirk, KG, Lebron, and others in his era.

Yeah just like they do with Russell and his stats.... oh wait.

I do agree with JaG above. Kobe's constant copying of MJ has been more than pathetic at times. So has his desire to shoot without regard of team concepts. And barring a miracle he will not win another ring, at least as a main asset of his team.

I am as big a fan of Dirk and the advanced stats movement will be very kind to him in the future, compared to today's fans. But right now, the rank of his generation is:
1.Shaq (a bit older, but still played a lot in 2000s)
2.Duncan
3.Kobe
(distance)
4.Dirk
5.LeBron
5.KG
and then Wade, Nash, Kidd, Pierce, Iverson. Those rings matter, and they matter a lot.

LeBron's choke jobs in the last two playoffs are epic and will not be forgotten easily.

[Calispursfan11]

He's ostensibly half way thru and has O NBA Titles.

Please.

This is good reasoning.

[Calispursfan11]

tbh the clock is ticking for Lebron in this discussion. Kobe's game still works because it's constantly evolving and adapting. Once Bron loses his quickness and gets older he wont be able to ######beast his way to the basket anymore and his game will be severely limited imo

Magua hate the James name.

[Giuseppe]

^:lol

[lakerddan]

The future will be incredibly unkind to Kobe Bryant. Once people stop living in the Hollywood aspect of all of this and break down the stats and look at things objectively, he will hopefully be remembered where he belongs: outside the top 20 of all time, and squarely behind Tim, Dirk, KG, Lebron, and others in his era.

:lol Scoreboard, Kobe 5 titles Lebron 0 end of story. What a hater, aint it a shame that no real knowledgeable basketball fan or non hater agrees with your bullcrap. Since its obvious you know nothing about basketball, please quit posting and read a book on basketball 101.:rollin

[Giuseppe]

intentionally quit on his team Rick Barry style in game 7 against Phoenix.

You've nary room. Your Dirk quit this season as well.

[endrity]

You've nary room. Your Dirk quit this season as well.

Nah, he just gave the league a head start. When you have :lobt: you don't quit!

Now leave this thread. I am trying to be nice to Kirby, I don't want your trolling ass sniffing around here.

[Giuseppe]

^Are you with the EC?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Those damn dirty witch-hunting gestapo KKK motherfuckers

[Giuseppe]

^Have you resigned yet?

[DeadlyDynasty]

^Have you resigned yet?

I tried, seppe. timvp runs it like the mob...I was gonna get wacked

[endrity]

^Are you with the EC?

when it comes to you, everyone is with the EC

[nowhereman523]

Laker fans afraid of the truth here.

1 point and only 3 shots in the second half of a game 7 loss? Holding his team hostage demanding to be traded? Before LeBron's antics there was the Drama Queen, intentionally tanking games, destroying teams, and pouting. Only difference is that Kobe got to ride Shaq's coattails early in his career, got to be coached by Phil Jackson, and gets bailed out by Pau. Hey it's no secret why the Lakers got swept last year - it's because Kobe has never been good enough to carry his team by himself anywhere without an all-nba player performing at an all-nba capacity. Compare that to Tim and LeBron and Dirk for a minute.

LeBron has been better the last four years than Kobe has ever been in his entire career. Oh and LeBron's only 27... and I hate LeBron. But anyone other than Kobe homers recognize that Bryant is overrated trash. In 15 years, every basketball fan will realize he was significantly overrated.

(also, sidenote to whomever first used the word: "ostensibly" doesn't mean what you think it means).

[pass1st]

Laker fans afraid of the truth here.

1 point and only 3 shots in the second half of a game 7 loss? Holding his team hostage demanding to be traded? Before LeBron's antics there was the Drama Queen, intentionally tanking games, destroying teams, and pouting. Only difference is that Kobe got to ride Shaq's coattails early in his career, got to be coached by Phil Jackson, and gets bailed out by Pau. Hey it's no secret why the Lakers got swept last year - it's because Kobe has never been good enough to carry his team by himself anywhere without an all-nba player performing at an all-nba capacity. Compare that to Tim and LeBron and Dirk for a minute.

LeBron has been better the last four years than Kobe has ever been in his entire career. Oh and LeBron's only 27... and I hate LeBron. But anyone other than Kobe homers recognize that Bryant is overrated trash. In 15 years, every basketball fan will realize he was significantly overrated.

(also, sidenote to whomever first used the word: "ostensibly" doesn't mean what you think it means).

OP stated who will be remembered as the better player

[lakerddan]

Laker fans afraid of the truth here.

1 point and only 3 shots in the second half of a game 7 loss? Holding his team hostage demanding to be traded? Before LeBron's antics there was the Drama Queen, intentionally tanking games, destroying teams, and pouting. Only difference is that Kobe got to ride Shaq's coattails early in his career, got to be coached by Phil Jackson, and gets bailed out by Pau. Hey it's no secret why the Lakers got swept last year - it's because Kobe has never been good enough to carry his team by himself anywhere without an all-nba player performing at an all-nba capacity. Compare that to Tim and LeBron and Dirk for a minute.

LeBron has been better the last four years than Kobe has ever been in his entire career. Oh and LeBron's only 27... and I hate LeBron. But anyone other than Kobe homers recognize that Bryant is overrated trash. In 15 years, every basketball fan will realize he was significantly overrated.

(also, sidenote to whomever first used the word: "ostensibly" doesn't mean what you think it means).
How many titles as he won? Kobe 5 lebron 0

[kingmalaki]

Once upon a time Magic has 5 rings and Jordan had zero (approximately halfway into Jordan's career). Then the 90's happened. Barring some injury, LeBron still has a lot of basketball left. If he leads Miami to a title this year he will have led his team to a ring faster than Kobe did. Kobe's only led his team to 2 titles. His averages are better than Kobe's and he will probably have better numbers than him in everything but scoring (and even that isn't out of the question). He will finish with more MVP's as well (he's already ahead and will get a 3rd this year if the voters are honest about it).

So Kobe is ahead right now but if you asked this same question about Magic and Jordan in 1990 the Laker would have won at that point too. Still too early to tell.

[russellgoat]

why people says that lebron sucked in the fourth quarter in the finals? he sucked the whole games. his only good game was game 1.