timvp
02-20-2012, 11:57 AM
When I posted this season's player pairs (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191529), DBMethos asked to see an example of a championship team's player pairs. So here it is.
Point Differential Per 100 Possessions
http://oi40.tinypic.com/24v3z8n.jpg
Points Scored Per 100 Possessions
http://oi40.tinypic.com/165es4.jpg
Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions
http://oi40.tinypic.com/2i945r5.jpg
Observations:
-Tim Duncan was still a superstar in 2007. He missed a green clean sweep by only one. (Ironically, Duncan+Bonner offense is a huge strength nowadays.) While his per-minute numbers haven't fallen too far since 2007, it's obvious that his impact is much less these days -- especially offensively.
-Manu Ginobili grades out extremely strong in these numbers. His only two reds cells have obvious explanation: Elson set poor screens and could never catch his passes on offense, while being paired with Barry stretched his defensive capabilities too far. In 2007, Ginobili came off the bench and, as you can see, obliterated his competition on a nightly basis.
-Tony Parker has a smattering of red but other than the defense when he was paired with Finley, he was really, really close to keeping up the level of play at all times. For the high standards set by a superstar Duncan and Ginobili destroying bench players, Parker's numbers are about as good as could be expected.
-Damn, I miss Bruce Bowen :cry. Look at those beautiful defensive numbers. The most impressive aspect is probably how he turned Barry into a capable defender. Barry couldn't stop anyone when paired with Finley or Ginobili but was really good next to Bowen. It's kinda cool how these numbers show Bowen's worth ... while more traditional NBA stats make Bowen look like a scrub.
-Speaking of scrubs, I still don't understand what Pop saw in Michael Finley. I knew he was bad at defense at the time ... but I didn't know he was that bad.
-Brent Barry was a useful offensive role player player. He made scoring easier for the Big 3 than any player on the team. (Tip of the hat to whottt.) His numbers then were similar to the numbers posted by Bonner and Neal these days.
-Everyone remembers Robert Horry's big shots but his true value was on the defensive end. If you put him next to a shot blocker, he was a stud defender.
-Fabricio Oberto was signed for his defense, however it turned out to be his offense that made him a worthwhile player.
-Francisco Elson being pretty damn bad is not a surprise. He had his useful spots but was very limited.
-It's pretty surprising that Matt Bonner didn't have instant chemistry with Duncan. It was actually Ginobili that brought the best out of him at the time. Oh, and I guess Bonner wasn't always the king of plus/minus.
-Jacque Vaughn's great season is mostly forgotten these days but the guy was a bulldog defender. When paired with another ace defender, opponents could barely score (that number with Bowen on the court is disgusting.) Offensively, I attribute his strong numbers to Duncan and Ginobili being more than able to carry the offense. While even then it wasn't wise to run Duncan and Ginobili into the ground, on a per-possessions basis, they could put points on the board with anyone in the league.
-Beno Udrih somehow managed to make each member of the Big 3 significantly worse. It's not a surprise that he was let go by the following season.
Comparing to this season, the thing that the Spurs of today are missing is defensive role players. Back in 2007, putting Bowen, Horry and Vaughn around the Big 3 made the Spurs one of the best defensive teams in the league. Today, nearly all the role players are primarily successful due to their offense. Specifically, it's a shame that the current Spurs don't have a defensive role playing big who could be counted on to help shut the other team down.
Like I've said previously, at some point Pop and the front office decided that the Big 3 wasn't capable of carrying the team offensively by themselves (if you want to pinpoint a moment, it appears to have come at the end of the 2008 season). Thus, more emphasis on offensive role players has been witnessed lately. Was Pop and the front office right? Quite possibly ... but personally I wouldn't have been upset trying to win championships with a proven formula.
And, being honest, the Duncan of today just doesn't impact the game like he did back in 2007. It's not for a lack of effort or anything -- time just gets the best of everybody eventually.
Point Differential Per 100 Possessions
http://oi40.tinypic.com/24v3z8n.jpg
Points Scored Per 100 Possessions
http://oi40.tinypic.com/165es4.jpg
Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions
http://oi40.tinypic.com/2i945r5.jpg
Observations:
-Tim Duncan was still a superstar in 2007. He missed a green clean sweep by only one. (Ironically, Duncan+Bonner offense is a huge strength nowadays.) While his per-minute numbers haven't fallen too far since 2007, it's obvious that his impact is much less these days -- especially offensively.
-Manu Ginobili grades out extremely strong in these numbers. His only two reds cells have obvious explanation: Elson set poor screens and could never catch his passes on offense, while being paired with Barry stretched his defensive capabilities too far. In 2007, Ginobili came off the bench and, as you can see, obliterated his competition on a nightly basis.
-Tony Parker has a smattering of red but other than the defense when he was paired with Finley, he was really, really close to keeping up the level of play at all times. For the high standards set by a superstar Duncan and Ginobili destroying bench players, Parker's numbers are about as good as could be expected.
-Damn, I miss Bruce Bowen :cry. Look at those beautiful defensive numbers. The most impressive aspect is probably how he turned Barry into a capable defender. Barry couldn't stop anyone when paired with Finley or Ginobili but was really good next to Bowen. It's kinda cool how these numbers show Bowen's worth ... while more traditional NBA stats make Bowen look like a scrub.
-Speaking of scrubs, I still don't understand what Pop saw in Michael Finley. I knew he was bad at defense at the time ... but I didn't know he was that bad.
-Brent Barry was a useful offensive role player player. He made scoring easier for the Big 3 than any player on the team. (Tip of the hat to whottt.) His numbers then were similar to the numbers posted by Bonner and Neal these days.
-Everyone remembers Robert Horry's big shots but his true value was on the defensive end. If you put him next to a shot blocker, he was a stud defender.
-Fabricio Oberto was signed for his defense, however it turned out to be his offense that made him a worthwhile player.
-Francisco Elson being pretty damn bad is not a surprise. He had his useful spots but was very limited.
-It's pretty surprising that Matt Bonner didn't have instant chemistry with Duncan. It was actually Ginobili that brought the best out of him at the time. Oh, and I guess Bonner wasn't always the king of plus/minus.
-Jacque Vaughn's great season is mostly forgotten these days but the guy was a bulldog defender. When paired with another ace defender, opponents could barely score (that number with Bowen on the court is disgusting.) Offensively, I attribute his strong numbers to Duncan and Ginobili being more than able to carry the offense. While even then it wasn't wise to run Duncan and Ginobili into the ground, on a per-possessions basis, they could put points on the board with anyone in the league.
-Beno Udrih somehow managed to make each member of the Big 3 significantly worse. It's not a surprise that he was let go by the following season.
Comparing to this season, the thing that the Spurs of today are missing is defensive role players. Back in 2007, putting Bowen, Horry and Vaughn around the Big 3 made the Spurs one of the best defensive teams in the league. Today, nearly all the role players are primarily successful due to their offense. Specifically, it's a shame that the current Spurs don't have a defensive role playing big who could be counted on to help shut the other team down.
Like I've said previously, at some point Pop and the front office decided that the Big 3 wasn't capable of carrying the team offensively by themselves (if you want to pinpoint a moment, it appears to have come at the end of the 2008 season). Thus, more emphasis on offensive role players has been witnessed lately. Was Pop and the front office right? Quite possibly ... but personally I wouldn't have been upset trying to win championships with a proven formula.
And, being honest, the Duncan of today just doesn't impact the game like he did back in 2007. It's not for a lack of effort or anything -- time just gets the best of everybody eventually.