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View Full Version : Arizona debate matters for GOP's final four



JoeChalupa
02-20-2012, 01:26 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/19/politics/arizona-crowley-debate/index.html
Washington (CNN) -- In no particular order, here are four things you should watch in this week's desert debate: Ron Paul, Rick Santorum, Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich.

The final four have not shared a stage in almost a month: Not since Romney won Florida, Nevada and Maine. Not since Santorum triumphed in Minnesota, Missouri and Colorado. Not since Paul won -- well, Paul won nowhere, though he told me on CNN's "State of the Union," "It all depends on how you measure winning ... the bottom line is who is going to get the delegates ... and we think we're doing pretty good."

Also not winning anywhere since the last debate is Gingrich, who retains his down-but-never-out storyline. The former House speaker promised recently, "I have been front-runner twice. I suspect I'll be the front-runner again in a few weeks."

It is at least arguable that since the last debate on January 26, Gingrich has faded and Paul has hit a ceiling. Still, all four Republican presidential hopefuls have jointly suffered from an increasing Republican anxiety about the field.

The latest CNN/ORC poll conducted a week ago shows 55% of Republicans are satisfied with their presidential candidates, down 11 points from October 2011.

Arizona's debate matters.

It could be an oasis for Gingrich's regularly in-debt campaign, providing an audience of millions for the price of a plane flight and a hotel room. Debates are usually terra firma for Gingrich, who has an instinct for the jugular and a way of channeling the anger and frustration of the Republican right. His assaults on the media and on President Barack Obama have regularly drawn sustained applause and sometimes standing O's from debate audiences.

More importantly, they have provided the day-after headlines that have fueled the Gingrich campaign.

But the dynamic is different now. The time is later, and much as Santorum once needed Gingrich to falter so he could step in, Gingrich needs Santorum to collapse under the weight of expectations for a front-runner.

Santorum challenges policy on prenatal testing

There isn't much room for error at the top of a pyramid, and the Arizona debate is the first time Santorum will take the center position on stage where the front-runner
stands and gets pummeled.

Gingrich is not the only one looking to push Santorum -- Paul is traveling to Arizona loaded for bear and offered me what might be a preview of his intent for the debate.

Paul said he doesn't think it's possible for Santorum to beat Obama this fall. Expressing impatience with this past week's brouhaha over birth control, he accused Santorum of "pretending" to be a conservative. Rather, Paul said, Santorum has been liberal in all the things he's voted for and added that he has an "atrocious" voting record.
Can Republicans win on social issues?
Will a long GOP race hurt the party?
Candy's Post-show analysis

Still, like the most recent debates, angst is likely highest for the "sometimes" front-runner, the "almost" front-runner, the "weak" front-runner -- Romney.

Because of his cash on hand and his sturdy operation, Romney is still pundits' odds-on favorite to win. Now though, he is in danger of losing his home state of Michigan, which along with Arizona holds its primary a week from Tuesday.

Poll: Santorum leads Romney nationwide by 8 points

He told the Grand Rapids Press editorial board that a Romney loss in Michigan is "not going to happen."

Numerically, he could lose Michigan and still win the nomination, but the optics of failing in his home state would raise uncomfortable questions. If he cannot connect there, if he cannot connect now, where and when will he?

Romney remains a man in search of his own passion or at least a man in search of a way to convey it.

The stakes are enormous on Wednesday -- not only because there's been no debate during a month of change in the race, but also because no more are scheduled before Super Tuesday in early March, when 10 states hold caucuses or primaries.

For Gingrich and Paul, Santorum and Romney, the Arizona debate may be the last chance to make another impression.

~~~This is the opportunity of a lifetime for Santorum. The time to strike is now if he is going to have any real chance of winning the nomination. I'd make Romney address the social that issues that he has been talking about the past week or so because he knows Romney does not share his far right religious views. This will be for the most part a two-man debate.

JoeChalupa
02-23-2012, 01:17 AM
Santorum blew his chance and that is due to Romney doing his homework and being ready. Look for Romney to creep back up and once again a challenger will rise and fall to Willard. Newt did better and once again..Paul was just there.

SA210
02-23-2012, 01:35 AM
and once again..Paul was just there.

:lol Yea right. Paul had the best answers, they were honest and real too.

Jacob1983
02-23-2012, 02:12 AM
Ron Paul was on fire tonight. His facial expressions and reactions were hilarious. He was basically laughing at Santorum, Romney, and Gingrich the whole time.
He wants to talk about the important things like the economy and the endless nation building overseas while the others want to bitch about birth control.

Ron Paul was right about Planned Parenthood. They should get nothing.
He was also right about funds being fungible. A lot of abortion supporters love to say that the federal government doesn't fund abortions when they give money to Planned Parenthood. That's crap. If you give funds to Planned Parenthood, of course some of it is going to be used for abortions.

SA210
02-23-2012, 02:17 AM
9wYC2r3Kd1Y&feature=channel

Bold

:lmao

JoeChalupa
02-23-2012, 02:20 AM
:lol Yea right. Paul had the best answers, they were honest and real too.

My point is that he no chance and while he was entertaining and I agree on his stance on Iran it has clearly become a two man race and Santorum just blew it.

SA210
02-23-2012, 02:27 AM
My point is that he no chance and while he was entertaining and I agree on his stance on Iran it has clearly become a two man race and Santorum just blew it.

How does he have no chance when he is 2nd in delegates?

exnojVAR8a8&list=UUCR19glb_uf1gAV5dtkfv5A&index=2&feature=plcp

And this is without media coverage. They actually surprised me with the time they gave him today, but i think that has more to do with the complaining about how they ignore him and this being possibly the last debate.

JoeChalupa
02-23-2012, 02:52 AM
Yeah, I heard him make that argument today but he has no, let me repeat that...no chance of winning the GOP nomination. It just is and he knows it too. Right now he is my favorite GOP candidate but his views are simply not the mainstream for the GOP. I do like the fact the he did state that "loyalty to the party" isn't always the best way to go. I wish more politicians on both sides were that way.
The common goal is there amongst the parties but they are to stubborn and partisan to be able to let the other side win and take a bow. Secretly they may like the other sides bill but they won't support because "the other side" thought of it.

JoeChalupa
02-23-2012, 02:52 AM
Yeah, I heard him make that argument today but he has no, let me repeat that...no chance of winning the GOP nomination. It just is and he knows it too. Right now he is my favorite GOP candidate but his views are simply not the mainstream for the GOP. I do like the fact the he did state that "loyalty to the party" isn't always the best way to go. I wish more politicians on both sides were that way.
The common goal is there amongst the parties but they are to stubborn and partisan to be able to let the other side win and take a bow. Secretly they may like the other sides bill but they won't support because "the other side" thought of it.

SA210
02-23-2012, 03:10 AM
Even if you believe he has no chance, (which i do think it's possible), shouldn't you root for your favorite candidate?

elbamba
02-23-2012, 11:48 AM
I thought Romney and Paul brought their A games tonight. Newt was solid but I do not think anyone takes him seriously. Santorum had his chance, he cannot pull away from his social issues and the debate got him to admit that he is a Washington insider and he is not as consistent as he portrays himself to be.

I really like Paul and I really like Romney. I wish they could mold together and take Mitt's business experience, leadership abilities and presidential look and mix it with most of Paul's foreign policy and spending philosophy.

After watching what I hope is the last primary debate, I came away wondering if Rand Paul is going to be the VP. It looks like there is some unspoken deal between Ron Paul and Mitt Romney.

Jacob1983
02-23-2012, 06:06 PM
Ron Paul is a badass. He does not give a shit about what other people think. He does not tell you what you want to hear. He tells you how it is. He doesn't tell you that he's gonna ban abortion nationwide or not let gay people get married anywhere in America. He talks about the things that matter like the economy, the endless spending, and nation building wars that have fucked America in the ass.

SA210
02-24-2012, 01:03 AM
Ron Paul is a badass. He does not give a shit about what other people think. He does not tell you what you want to hear. He tells you how it is. He doesn't tell you that he's gonna ban abortion nationwide or not let gay people get married anywhere in America. He talks about the things that matter like the economy, the endless spending, and nation building wars that have fucked America in the ass.

But we shouldn't support him because he has no chance, and he has no chance because he is the most honest. And People don't want honesty, they want liars. Don't you know that?

:rolleyes

Wild Cobra
02-24-2012, 03:08 AM
But we shouldn't support him because he has no chance, and he has no chance because he is the most honest. And People don't want honesty, they want liars. Don't you know that?

:rolleyes
No, they don't want liars. Too many people believe what the liars say.

Jacob1983
02-24-2012, 03:33 AM
I'm sure the military would much rather have Ron Paul as president than drone loving Obama. Oh wait, they already do. What does that say about Obama? A Libertarian leaning GOP presidential candidate gets more donations from active military members than a sitting president.

Ron Paul doesn't tell people what they want to hear to get voters or money. He tells it like it is and if you don't like it, he doesn't give a fuck.

He wants to talk about the real issues rather than bitch about special interests that most people don't give a shit about right now. Are you honestly going to tell me people care more about who passes out birth control pills and whether or not two gay dudes can get married than the economy and nation building overseas? The economy trumps everything.

Winehole23
03-15-2012, 01:14 PM
AZ is a leader, not a follower:

http://www.statepress.com/2012/03/12/senate-judiciary-committee-endorses-controversial-contraceptive-bill/