Tim's and Tony's minutes

[GSH]

Timmy has 79 minutes in the last two games, and Tony has 82. I'd like to see Pop limit them to no more than 20 minutes tomorrow night, regardless of the score. To hell with the streak - don't wear out the horses you're going to have to ride in the playoffs. Let Anderson and Dawson get some minutes, and hope Neal, CoJo, and Green can figure out how to keep the offense moving.

An undefeated Rodeo Road Trip isn't going to make anyone feel any better if we get knocked out of the playoffs early. And it won't make the Championship any better if we win it. Rest 'em. Then kick Denver's ass going into the All-Star break.

[ducks]

dude they played saturday and now monday
tp tonight did not have to go off since booner was

booner goes for 20 spurs win 99% of time

[TDfan2007]

While you may have a point, conserving Tim and Tony's minutes hasn't done shit for this team in the past 3 seasons come playoff time. In fact, the extreme minute conservation that Pop employed with Timmy last year actually negatively affected his conditioning when he was forced to play 35 mpg in the playoffs.

[DesignatedT]

I just don't see the Spurs having the energy to win tomorrow night in Portland. Duncan has played way over his average minutes the last couple games and being on the road this long is tiring. But who know, I didn't see us winning 11 in a row either.

If Splitter wasn't hurt you could guarantee that Duncan would likely sit tomorrow, without him though I just don't see how that's an option. Maybe Pop will sit both Tony and Tim and tank the game. I really wouldn't mind this if it were to happen.

[ducks]

La is kicking the blazers ass
blazers may just tank and rest their starters

[letmk]

While you may have a point, conserving Tim and Tony's minutes hasn't done shit for this team in the past 3 seasons come playoff time. In fact, the extreme minute conservation that Pop employed with Timmy last year actually negatively affected his conditioning when he was forced to play 35 mpg in the playoffs.

I agree with this to some extent. Plus, this Rodeo trip are not that busy thus far. But knowing Pop, it will not surprise me if he gives Tim a day off tomorrow.

[TD 21]

Nonsense. I wouldn't go in with the mindset of keeping their minutes down tomorrow. I'd go in with the mindset of letting the game play itself out and if it's apparent throughout that they're going to have a 50/50 shot to win it, then I'd play them major minutes. However, if it's obvious early that they're going to be hard pressed to win, I'd pull the plug and not go all out for the win.

But this notion that "if they play 20 minutes tomorrow instead of 30, it'll pay off down the road" is nonsense. We witnessed that in last year's playoffs. It didn't matter how much rest they got Duncan and Parker in the regular season, they didn't suddenly go up a level in the playoffs. It didn't help that Duncan's ankle wasn't 100%, but still.

I'm not saying play them 40 mpg. What I'm saying is, get wins when you can, especially with this skeleton crew. Worry more about rationing minutes when Ford, Splitter and Ginobili return. Because at the end of the regular season, whether Duncan's average reads 27 or 29 and Parker's reads 32 or 34 isn't going to make a difference. When you're talking relatively low minute totals like that, that's irrelevant. It's more about how arduous their minutes are than anything. Once (if?) they get healthy, neither of their minutes will be nearly as arduous, in particular Parker's.

[DesignatedT]

But this notion that "if they play 20 minutes tomorrow instead of 30, it'll pay off down the road" is nonsense. We witnessed that in last year's playoffs.


Well to be honest it's not really fair to call it nonsense either. There is no way of actually knowing if it matters or not and that is just your opinion. All I know is Tim Duncan hasn't missed more then 7 games in a season since he hit his 30s and that is pretty remarkable. Call it "nonsense" all you want but I'm going to trust Popovich when it comes to limiting minutes because whatever he's done has worked in that regard.

[Brazil]

Portland is having a very bad night... they are going to be hungry tomorrow

[DesignatedT]

I don't see a win happening tomorrow night healthy or not and with the minutes Tim has been playing I wouldn't mind giving him and tony the night off and chalking the game up as a L. This team can't afford for Duncan to go down. Manu is one thing, Duncan is completely different. JMO

[angelbelow]

Spurs offense is non-existent without Parker right now. If we plan on winning were going to have to continue to play him as much as possible. We closed out the 3rd the way we did because of Parker. It was clear that the Jazz' defensive game plan coming out of halftime was to stay put on shooters but all that changed when Parker scored on consecutive possessions. I just don't see how this team stays afloat with resting Parker for an extended period of time with Splitter out.

Duncan could probably benefit from sitting, his post game was hard to watch today. Throwing the ball into him the first 6 minutes of the 3rd quarter was why we couldn't score.

If we sit both were just going to have to pray motion offense works with Green/Neal/Anderson/Bonner/Blair and gives us an opportunity to compete. But TBH I've kind of made peace with losing the next 3 games. But I thought today's game was a must win because Utah is that bad. Like DPG mentioned earlier, we played well enough on the RRT to swallow some losses.

[TD 21]

Well to be honest it's not really fair to call it nonsense either. There is no way of actually knowing if it matters or not and that is just your opinion. All I know is Tim Duncan hasn't missed more then 7 games in a season since he hit his 30s and that is pretty remarkable. Call it "nonsense" all you want but I'm going to trust Popovich when it comes to limiting minutes because whatever he's done has worked in that regard.

You're right, it's more than fair. I'm not advocating playing them 36 or 38 mpg, but do you really think guys in the condition they're in can't play 1-2 more minutes over the average Pop would probably ideally like to have them at (considering how low their averages are to begin with, relatively speaking) and that that would somehow make a difference in the playoffs? And don't you think Duncan and luck deserve a lot of the credit for his being so durable?

[Pentagruel]

Well to be honest it's not really fair to call it nonsense either. There is no way of actually knowing if it matters or not and that is just your opinion. All I know is Tim Duncan hasn't missed more then 7 games in a season since he hit his 30s and that is pretty remarkable. Call it "nonsense" all you want but I'm going to trust Popovich when it comes to limiting minutes because whatever he's done has worked in that regard.

I don't have a problem limiting minutes in certain situations as a previous poster described. If it's a blowout in one direction or another, then sure, rest the stars. But if its a close game you need to play them heavy minutes to try and get the win. If you are unwilling to do that then you might as well leave em out of the game altogether.

The bottom line is that yes, the spurs should be careful about minutes when they can and not needlessly expose the star players to heavy minutes in blowouts, and yes, it might be prudent to rest Duncan or Manu on an occasional back to back if they are feeling tired. But ultimately, I think its actually beneficial to play around 32-35 minutes a game for these guys because it allows them a rhythm and the conditioning they need to be in top form when the playoffs roll around. Injuries have happened for many seasons now and rationing minutes hasn't stopped that. I think at this point we just have to hope for the best in that regard.

[DesignatedT]

You're right, it's more than fair. I'm not advocating playing them 36 or 38 mpg, but do you really think guys in the condition they're in can't play 1-2 more minutes over the average Pop would probably ideally like to have them at (considering how low their averages are to begin with, relatively speaking) and that that would somehow make a difference in the playoffs? And don't you think Duncan and luck deserve a lot of the credit for his being so durable?

I'm definitely with you on some of your thinking. There were times where I think Duncan should have came in a few minutes earlier, etc. It's just impossible to gauge if these extra minutes here and there actually effect his health in the long run and I don't really feel like finding out. He's been very durable his whole career and even since he's gotten up in age and I don't see why anyone would want to mess with what's been working. (knock on wood)

[DesignatedT]

Injuries have happened for many seasons now and rationing minutes hasn't stopped that. I think at this point we just have to hope for the best in that regard.

Only to Manu does this really apply. Like mentioned above Duncan has continued to be very durable even after hitting his 30s, even with all those playoff minutes under his belt.

Duncan went down last year at the end of the season with an ankle sprain and missed 4 games. Who's to say if he was playing more minutes or if Popovich wasn't limiting his minutes all season that he wouldn't have missed 4 weeks on that same sprain? It's really impossible to say but I don't really see the benefits in changing whats been working for Duncan regarding his minutes, even if it costs us some games.

[spectator]

i expect pop not to play tim and tony; then if the spurs are down by only 7-8 at halftime, play them heavily the rest of the game. however, chances are POR won't embarrass itself at home and blow up the game.

[TD 21]

I'm definitely with you on some of your thinking. There were times where I think Duncan should have came in a few minutes earlier, etc. It's just impossible to gauge if these extra minutes here and there actually effect his health in the long run and I don't really feel like finding out. He's been very durable his whole career and even since he's gotten up in age and I don't see why anyone would want to mess with what's been working. (knock on wood)

But that's just it, it hasn't been working with regards to the playoffs. Blame injuries, match-ups, etc., all you like. The reality is, Duncan hasn't gone up a level in the past two playoffs, despite playing career low minutes during the regular season. That's why I'm saying, when you're talking about high twenties or right at thirty minutes, it doesn't really matter what his average ends up being, so long as it's in that range. He's not suddenly going to be spry in the playoffs if he averages 27 in the regular season and worn out if he averages 29.

At his age, what he needs is proper help on both ends (which they've failed to provide him with for the most part) and he probably could use the odd game off. He does needs his minutes managed too, but micro managing is unnecessary. I also think it's foolish to play him roughly 28 mpg in the regular season, then expect him to be able to handle 36 mpg in the playoffs. They've got to gradually build him up.

[Kori Ellis]

Spurs just have to relentlessly attack in the first half and try to put them away early. If Parker is in full attack mode, and at least two other players "come along for the ride," Parker and Duncan should be able to relax in the second half.

[therealtruth]

While you may have a point, conserving Tim and Tony's minutes hasn't done shit for this team in the past 3 seasons come playoff time. In fact, the extreme minute conservation that Pop employed with Timmy last year actually negatively affected his conditioning when he was forced to play 35 mpg in the playoffs.

I think it's more important to have a good rhythm and win the right way going into the playoffs. That means winning with defense, rebounding, and executing on offense.

[DesignatedT]

But that's just it, it hasn't been working with regards to the playoffs. Blame injuries, match-ups, etc., all you like. The reality is, Duncan hasn't gone up a level in the past two playoffs, despite playing career low minutes during the regular season.


It could still be a lot worse.


I agree that he doesn't have the proper help down low. That's on the FO.

[DesignatedT]

No. Get your head out from under the rock. They're missing Lamarcus Aldridge, no way in hell they're going to beat us tomorrow night especially if they can't beat the Lakers.

Lamarcus Aldridge is fine and playing. He missed like 1 game with that injury.

[therealtruth]

But that's just it, it hasn't been working with regards to the playoffs. Blame injuries, match-ups, etc., all you like. The reality is, Duncan hasn't gone up a level in the past two playoffs, despite playing career low minutes during the regular season. That's why I'm saying, when you're talking about high twenties or right at thirty minutes, it doesn't really matter what his average ends up being, so long as it's in that range. He's not suddenly going to be spry in the playoffs if he averages 27 in the regular season and worn out if he averages 29.

At his age, what he needs is proper help on both ends (which they've failed to provide him with for the most part) and he probably could use the odd game off. He does needs his minutes managed too, but micro managing is unnecessary. I also think it's foolish to play him roughly 28 mpg in the regular season, then expect him to be able to handle 36 mpg in the playoffs. They've got to gradually build him up.

I agree completely. He needs help not less minutes. If he has help they don't have to rely on him so much.

[therealtruth]

Nonsense. I wouldn't go in with the mindset of keeping their minutes down tomorrow. I'd go in with the mindset of letting the game play itself out and if it's apparent throughout that they're going to have a 50/50 shot to win it, then I'd play them major minutes. However, if it's obvious early that they're going to be hard pressed to win, I'd pull the plug and not go all out for the win.

But this notion that "if they play 20 minutes tomorrow instead of 30, it'll pay off down the road" is nonsense. We witnessed that in last year's playoffs. It didn't matter how much rest they got Duncan and Parker in the regular season, they didn't suddenly go up a level in the playoffs. It didn't help that Duncan's ankle wasn't 100%, but still.

I'm not saying play them 40 mpg. What I'm saying is, get wins when you can, especially with this skeleton crew. Worry more about rationing minutes when Ford, Splitter and Ginobili return. Because at the end of the regular season, whether Duncan's average reads 27 or 29 and Parker's reads 32 or 34 isn't going to make a difference. When you're talking relatively low minute totals like that, that's irrelevant. It's more about how arduous their minutes are than anything. Once (if?) they get healthy, neither of their minutes will be nearly as arduous, in particular Parker's.

I don't agree with giving up on games so easily. Sometimes you might do it but it really shouldn't be a habit because otherwise you're creating a soft-minded team that won't be able to play their way out of adversity. You're going to face adversity in the playoffs and need to be able to play out of it. In some ways it's better to have a season where you have a lot of close games versus one where you win easily or lose easily.

[Robz4000]

Portland didn't have tonight off either; most of their starters played around 30+ minutes. Play everyone tomorrow and see what happens: if the game is close at the half, keep them going, but if its a blowout, then throw in the towe. The team did it's job this roadtrip, so losing the last two is more than acceptable.

[DMC]

While you may have a point, conserving Tim and Tony's minutes hasn't done shit for this team in the past 3 seasons come playoff time. In fact, the extreme minute conservation that Pop employed with Timmy last year actually negatively affected his conditioning when he was forced to play 35 mpg in the playoffs.
I agree with this. Tim has been doing better with more minutes (cue the duh factor) and I don't mean in stats alone. He's more active. Being treated like a geriatric case way too early didn't to him a lot of good tbh.

[DMC]

Parker has done fairly well on b2b nights. We have a good shot at winning but it's going to depend a lot on how hot Portland is in the 1st half because Pop probably isn't going to chase it for long in the 3rd.

[UnWantedTheory]

I agree with this. Tim has been doing better with more minutes (cue the duh factor) and I don't mean in stats alone. He's more active. Being treated like a geriatric case way too early didn't do him a lot of good tbh.

[roycrikside]

I think you play the first half straight up and see what happens. If the team is getting blown out or Duncan just doesn't have it, then you sit him the second half. Aldridge isn't a low post player, he's a high post guy, so it won't be as hard on Tim as it was today, with Jefferson taking him down low. Less wear and tear, less banging tomorrow for Tim.

We will need big games from Leonard and Green to have a chance tomorrow though. I think Blazers will use small ball and we need Leonard to hold Wallace in check.

[Pauleta14]

Spurs just have to relentlessly attack in the first half and try to put them away early. If Parker is in full attack mode, and at least two other players "come along for the ride," Parker and Duncan should be able to relax in the second half.


You can't put FOR GOOD the Blazers away in the 1st half on their homecourt, even a 20 pts deficit means nothing in their arena (such as our).
If they start waking up, it'll end like in Miami this year...

I'd like them to stay close until the halftime and start strong the 3rd, the same way they did in LA. :ihit

Well, it's just a wish/dream, even if I'm an optimistic guy, I can't see us win tonight, even more after the blazers lost to LA and can redeem themselves in from of their fans...

[ogait]

While you may have a point, conserving Tim and Tony's minutes hasn't done shit for this team in the past 3 seasons come playoff time. In fact, the extreme minute conservation that Pop employed with Timmy last year actually negatively affected his conditioning when he was forced to play 35 mpg in the playoffs.

I agree with this.

There's the notion around this board and in the media that closely follows the Spurs that the less mpg the BIG 3 are aveaging every year, the better form they will be on the playoffs, and I've never seen anything that proves that theory right.

In fact I think that if players don't use the regular season to build endurance by playing extend minutes it will be harder for them to do so in the playoffs. It's like that in any kind of sports or physical activity tbh.

That's why I was never a big fan of rationing minutes like Pop does, at least not in a way that a certain player never plays more than a certain amount of minutes.

I'm fine if he decides to rest them the whole game, but either rest them completely or play them the right way, not that in between thing that never leads to nowhere.

[SpurNation]

Conserving minutes I'm all in favor of. Not playing at all I am not. Gotta ride what brought you but you don't have to ride it to the ground.

Understand the concern and in a condensed season when athletes are forced to play more games per week than physically trained to do...(which is not the same as mpg)...there's not enough evidence to speculate playing the same amount of mpg more times per week is a higher risk for injury than in a normal season. But it would seem a logical conclusion that it might.

[K-State Spur]

I think it was JVG who pointed out that shaving off a few minutes here and there on most nights really won't play that large of a role in keeping a player fresh for the playoffs. You're probably better off just giving guys entire nights off (which Pop will do) when the schedule gets rough.

I'm not sure that Pop would agree with the first part of that statement, but it's another school of thought.

[Cane]

Pop and the Spurs can't be happy with the heavy minutes they've played. I predict Eric Dawson, James Anderson, and CJ to play significant minutes tonight even if the game is competitive

[GSH]

I think it was JVG who pointed out that shaving off a few minutes here and there on most nights really won't play that large of a role in keeping a player fresh for the playoffs. You're probably better off just giving guys entire nights off (which Pop will do) when the schedule gets rough.

I'm not sure that Pop would agree with the first part of that statement, but it's another school of thought.


No offense to you K-State. And I mean that - I always appreciate hearing a different perspective. But JVG is an amazing dumb shit - especially when he's in a commentator's chair.

Here's the problem with that theory. In a normal season, a guy getting 35 minutes per game is no big deal. But a guy getting 40 minutes per game is an iron man. In those 5 little minutes lies the difference between "starter" and "stud". Regardless of what JVG says, shaving a few minutes on most nights adds up. Maybe there's some question of how many, and how often. But it adds up. And I would also suggest that with Tim's knees, and the minutes Tony has been putting in most nights, some rest would be an especially good thing.

In my OP, I suggested 20 minutes playing time, and not a night off. A night off would be better, but that would be pretty much like a forfeit unless we got some real heroics from everyone else. I was thinking that 20 would be just enough to get a little burn, and hopefully enough to either give the other guys a solid lead, or to know that it just isn't our night anyway.

[Bruno]

You have to look at schedule.

After the RRT, Spurs will have 7 games in 20 days all at home. That's a very light stretch of game that will allow the team to refuel their tanks.

Playing Duncan a lot of minutes to finish the RRT isn't that a big deal because he will have that stretch to rest after it. Parker will have a little less rest because of the ASG but he is younger and he seems to handle well the heavy minutes he is playing.

I don't see Pop really limiting players minutes against Portland. However, if Spurs are down by a lot, he won't hesitate to throw away the game. Spurs are in a comfortable situation where they can give up a game that is likely lost.

[GSH]

You have to look at schedule.

After the RRT, Spurs will have 7 games in 20 days all at home. That's a very light stretch of game that will allow the team to refuel their tanks.




Hmmm... I hadn't looked at that part of the schedule. Thanks. I was thinking in terms of leveraging the AS break, and getting them as much extended rest as possible. I would hate to see them get into another couple of nail-biters and keep playing Tim and Tony 40 minutes per game, rather than let a close one go.

You're right though, that light(er) schedule at home, after the break, should help a lot. I just want to see the break be about resting, rather than recovering. I guess I'm hoping that tonight will be either a blowout win, or a blowout loss. With Tiago and Manu both out, these close ones are going to take a toll on Tim and Tony.

Well - that, plus I'd like to see Anderson and Dawson get enough minutes to tell us something.

[hater]

You have to look at schedule.

After the RRT, Spurs will have 7 games in 20 days all at home. That's a very light stretch of game that will allow the team to refuel their tanks.


yeah but we finish the season with a stretch of 16 games in 23 days. Brutal. Our guys might be dead tired when playoffs start

Fuck Stern :bang

[Bruno]

yeah but we finish the season with a stretch of 16 games in 23 days. Brutal. Our guys might be dead tired when playoffs start

Fuck Stern :bang

Spurs schedule in April is indeed brutal but I fully expect Pop to counter it by giving some nights off to the main players. It will be doable if Spurs aren't fighting to make the playoffs which seems likely given their current great record.

[FromWayDowntown]

You have to look at schedule.

After the RRT, Spurs will have 7 games in 20 days all at home. That's a very light stretch of game that will allow the team to refuel their tanks.

Playing Duncan a lot of minutes to finish the RRT isn't that a big deal because he will have that stretch to rest after it. Parker will have a little less rest because of the ASG but he is younger and he seems to handle well the heavy minutes he is playing.

I don't see Pop really limiting players minutes against Portland. However, if Spurs are down by a lot, he won't hesitate to throw away the game. Spurs are in a comfortable situation where they can give up a game that is likely lost.

I agree with this.

In years past, I suspect that Pop would have given Parker and Duncan the night off in Denver, functionally getting them about a week off in the middle of a grueling season. While I wouldn't be surprised if he did that this year (or even if he gave them the night off tonight), I think it's less likely -- at least for Duncan -- given Splitter's injury. I also think that with the long All-Star break for the Spurs (they don't play until the 2nd night back from the break), the long stretch of time at home (with the opportunities to practice that come with it), and the absence of back-to-backs in the near future (the next back-to-back isn't until 3/16-3/17 -- almost a month from now; though it is an @OKC, @DAL set), it makes sense to try to go get both of these games. That's particularly true because both Portland and Denver will be playing the 2nd night of their own back-to-backs this week.

I also agree that there's likely to be a quick hook from Pop if either game gets out of hand.

[FreeMad Dan]

I don't mind Pop sitting Tim or Tony when the bench has things in hand. But I don't like the idea of just giving away games. One game now might not matter, but it might in the long run. Especially to a team in our conference.

[JR3]

I'm also having trouble seeing us win the portland game. Id be okay with tanking this one and going for the win in denver.

[cheguevara]

agree I think tonight's is a L.

but I also said that about the Dallas game and it went to OT