Grantland Article: The Spurs and Mortality

[Amuseddaysleeper]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7597748/tim-duncan-manu-ginobili-mortality-san-antonio-spurs

Carles in Charge: The Spurs and Mortality
When winning just doesn't feel right


By Carles on February 21, 2012



The Spurs are 23-9, good for the second-best record in the Western Conference. They have wildly overachieved again. But when you watch the Spurs night in and night out, each game feels like a struggle with mortality. For years, they have been tabbed the most boring team in the league, and now it finally seems as if collective boredom might end up killing off its fan base. When deciding to confront the idea of your own imminent death, you never really know if you should celebrate the will of the human spirit that lives to fight for another day, or if you should just tell yourself that you are at peace with the legacy that you left behind.

Watching Tim Duncan makes me feel that way. And even though the team is winning, nobody's really thinking that it's going to add up to much in the playoffs.

While large-market teams can inspire the biggest stories and offer a context to extend the most general metaphors, the most vulnerable fan experiences are constructed in small markets, where the bouncing of Ping-Pong balls and competency of the front office are actually important to the city's economy and identity.

The funny thing about the Spurs is that they aren't even really dying — at least not when it comes to wins and losses — so the front office can't just put this generation to rest and start over. Sure, there are those sad moments when Tim Duncan gets his shots blocked by marginally talented young guys, but the team is thriving with a solid squadron built around Tony Parker. They've even already undergone the annual potentially catastrophic Manu Ginobili injury.

The Spurs manage to excel in the regular season because they always seem to find a handful of overachievers to supplement their Big Three. In fact, every time a Spurs bench player overachieves, it is tempting to want to celebrate the success of the Spurs as an organization that can turn "moderately skilled, character guys" into legitimate NBA players. Role players like Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green, and Tiago Splitter have all exceeded early season expectations, sort of like how Gary Neal, George Hill, and DeJuan Blair all have in recent years. But these guys have a tendency to no-show in the playoffs, and the emotionally manipulative ride toward the postseason crash begins again next season.

Does anyone really think the Spurs will win a playoff series? They were the no. 1 seed in last year's playoffs. They could be the no. 1 seed this year. This, in itself, is impressive, but when your benchmark is winning championships, what could be worse than a team that plays well in the regular season and then inevitably flames out in the playoffs to a much younger and cooler team?

Perhaps one of the downsides of the Duncan era is that the Spurs haven't branded their team as a hot-spot destination that was only 'a piece away' from winning a title. They cultivate strength in accepting that they are what they are. Acknowledging that they were 'a piece away' would diminish the fans' faith in San Antonio's most important celebrities and heroes. It's hard to tell a city that a franchise formula that served as the foundation of its own identity has flaws that might prevent the team from ever winning again.

While most cities are driven to acquire and hype big-name stars, San Antonians would consider role players like Bruce Bowen and Avery Johnson to be just as crucial to the team and the city's identity. San Antonio is the biggest small town in Texas and identifies itself as a working-class city. It isn't as trendy as Austin, as dehumanizing as the Houston sprawl, or as 'everything's bigger in Texas' as Dallas. San Antonio consists of loops of suburbia created by the Texan desire for new money to escape from the antiquated inner city for 'more acreage,' meaning that there is no cultural center in San Antonio. Theoretical cultural institutions like the River Walk and the Alamo are basically packaged tourist destinations. Since Tim Duncan was drafted, the Spurs have become the cultural center of the city because Duncan was able to add substance to the projected ideals of David Robinson, who largely existed as a ringless figure of morality.

The lack of widespread interest in the Spurs isn't surprising, because fans have the consumer right to use imaginary franchise classism to guide their interest in specific teams. That just means a small-market team has the challenge of convincing its fans that the team 'belongs,' and its fans aren't just an afterthought in the relevant tier of the NBA. After winning four championships and witnessing the greatest power forward of all time play on a nightly basis, the Spurs and their fans have constructed a championship psyche to overshadow any small-market insecurities.

Most small-market NBA teams deploy various marketing gimmicks in order to 'get fans in the seats' and generate organic local interest in the team. Since they don't have a local media that can generate Linsanity levels of buzz to increase the profile of their team, they must offer unlimited crappy food, 'free swag,' and other upper deck promotions to add to the fan-perceived value of the team experience. However, the most important idea to be able to sell their fans on is the idea of 'hope.' Since the Spurs are trending downward, they aren't built on a traditional upward trending construct of NBA hope that teams like Oklahoma City, Minnesota, and even Washington are.

Since the Spurs have already matured into a championship team, their current iteration of hope relies on constructing a narrative around savvy veterans who were able to overcome physical limitations in order to beat younger talent. Every other incubating franchise would love to achieve an imminent mid-round playoff exit where its team 'went down fighting.' When the Spurs go down fighting, it's just depressing and confusing to see those same figures fall after already achieving the pinnacle of basketball achievement.

The Spurs are a unique 'small-market' team that operates as the only major professional franchise in the seventh-largest city in the United States. The cross-pollination of superstars with new and buzz-worthy markets has led to the Spurs' omission from more games than usual on this year's national TV schedule. Do mass-market fans really want to watch a team dying right before their eyes?

When a small-market team is confronting its own franchise mortality, it automatically becomes a sad portrait of impending irrelevancy. The Spurs are somehow sadder than the Charlotte Bobcats because you can't just forget about them altogether. Whether it is the Spurs' recent playoff purgatory, Dwight Howard holding the Magic hostage, or the New Orleans Hornets establishing themselves as the league's premier free agent non-destination, all doomed small-market scenarios make fans wonder if they will ever feel any semblance of glory, pride, or even just marketable hope ever again.

If the Spurs can't be celebrated for fighting against the imminent death of their golden era, can we just watch them and celebrate their legacy? Since Tim Duncan is unlikely to ever have a 'Look at Me, I Need Your Validation' Farewell Tour, the Spurs as we know them will disappear before we even knew we were supposed to appreciate them. We are quietly watching Duncan's Last Stand, and instead of rooting for rising teams to put the final nail in the Spurs' coffin, we should be rooting to see one of the NBA's last relics of historical greatness succeed one last time against artificially created buzz franchises and misguided marquee-player movement.

[Killakobe81]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7597748/tim-duncan-manu-ginobili-mortality-san-antonio-spurs

Carles in Charge: The Spurs and Mortality
When winning just doesn't feel right


By Carles on February 21, 2012



The Spurs are 23-9, good for the second-best record in the Western Conference. They have wildly overachieved again. But when you watch the Spurs night in and night out, each game feels like a struggle with mortality. For years, they have been tabbed the most boring team in the league, and now it finally seems as if collective boredom might end up killing off its fan base. When deciding to confront the idea of your own imminent death, you never really know if you should celebrate the will of the human spirit that lives to fight for another day, or if you should just tell yourself that you are at peace with the legacy that you left behind.

Watching Tim Duncan makes me feel that way. And even though the team is winning, nobody's really thinking that it's going to add up to much in the playoffs.

While large-market teams can inspire the biggest stories and offer a context to extend the most general metaphors, the most vulnerable fan experiences are constructed in small markets, where the bouncing of Ping-Pong balls and competency of the front office are actually important to the city's economy and identity.

The funny thing about the Spurs is that they aren't even really dying — at least not when it comes to wins and losses — so the front office can't just put this generation to rest and start over. Sure, there are those sad moments when Tim Duncan gets his shots blocked by marginally talented young guys, but the team is thriving with a solid squadron built around Tony Parker. They've even already undergone the annual potentially catastrophic Manu Ginobili injury.

The Spurs manage to excel in the regular season because they always seem to find a handful of overachievers to supplement their Big Three. In fact, every time a Spurs bench player overachieves, it is tempting to want to celebrate the success of the Spurs as an organization that can turn "moderately skilled, character guys" into legitimate NBA players. Role players like Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green, and Tiago Splitter have all exceeded early season expectations, sort of like how Gary Neal, George Hill, and DeJuan Blair all have in recent years. But these guys have a tendency to no-show in the playoffs, and the emotionally manipulative ride toward the postseason crash begins again next season.

Does anyone really think the Spurs will win a playoff series? They were the no. 1 seed in last year's playoffs. They could be the no. 1 seed this year. This, in itself, is impressive, but when your benchmark is winning championships, what could be worse than a team that plays well in the regular season and then inevitably flames out in the playoffs to a much younger and cooler team?

Perhaps one of the downsides of the Duncan era is that the Spurs haven't branded their team as a hot-spot destination that was only 'a piece away' from winning a title. They cultivate strength in accepting that they are what they are. Acknowledging that they were 'a piece away' would diminish the fans' faith in San Antonio's most important celebrities and heroes. It's hard to tell a city that a franchise formula that served as the foundation of its own identity has flaws that might prevent the team from ever winning again.

While most cities are driven to acquire and hype big-name stars, San Antonians would consider role players like Bruce Bowen and Avery Johnson to be just as crucial to the team and the city's identity. San Antonio is the biggest small town in Texas and identifies itself as a working-class city. It isn't as trendy as Austin, as dehumanizing as the Houston sprawl, or as 'everything's bigger in Texas' as Dallas. San Antonio consists of loops of suburbia created by the Texan desire for new money to escape from the antiquated inner city for 'more acreage,' meaning that there is no cultural center in San Antonio. Theoretical cultural institutions like the River Walk and the Alamo are basically packaged tourist destinations. Since Tim Duncan was drafted, the Spurs have become the cultural center of the city because Duncan was able to add substance to the projected ideals of David Robinson, who largely existed as a ringless figure of morality.

The lack of widespread interest in the Spurs isn't surprising, because fans have the consumer right to use imaginary franchise classism to guide their interest in specific teams. That just means a small-market team has the challenge of convincing its fans that the team 'belongs,' and its fans aren't just an afterthought in the relevant tier of the NBA. After winning four championships and witnessing the greatest power forward of all time play on a nightly basis, the Spurs and their fans have constructed a championship psyche to overshadow any small-market insecurities.

Most small-market NBA teams deploy various marketing gimmicks in order to 'get fans in the seats' and generate organic local interest in the team. Since they don't have a local media that can generate Linsanity levels of buzz to increase the profile of their team, they must offer unlimited crappy food, 'free swag,' and other upper deck promotions to add to the fan-perceived value of the team experience. However, the most important idea to be able to sell their fans on is the idea of 'hope.' Since the Spurs are trending downward, they aren't built on a traditional upward trending construct of NBA hope that teams like Oklahoma City, Minnesota, and even Washington are.

Since the Spurs have already matured into a championship team, their current iteration of hope relies on constructing a narrative around savvy veterans who were able to overcome physical limitations in order to beat younger talent. Every other incubating franchise would love to achieve an imminent mid-round playoff exit where its team 'went down fighting.' When the Spurs go down fighting, it's just depressing and confusing to see those same figures fall after already achieving the pinnacle of basketball achievement.

The Spurs are a unique 'small-market' team that operates as the only major professional franchise in the seventh-largest city in the United States. The cross-pollination of superstars with new and buzz-worthy markets has led to the Spurs' omission from more games than usual on this year's national TV schedule. Do mass-market fans really want to watch a team dying right before their eyes?

When a small-market team is confronting its own franchise mortality, it automatically becomes a sad portrait of impending irrelevancy. The Spurs are somehow sadder than the Charlotte Bobcats because you can't just forget about them altogether. Whether it is the Spurs' recent playoff purgatory, Dwight Howard holding the Magic hostage, or the New Orleans Hornets establishing themselves as the league's premier free agent non-destination, all doomed small-market scenarios make fans wonder if they will ever feel any semblance of glory, pride, or even just marketable hope ever again.

If the Spurs can't be celebrated for fighting against the imminent death of their golden era, can we just watch them and celebrate their legacy? Since Tim Duncan is unlikely to ever have a 'Look at Me, I Need Your Validation' Farewell Tour, the Spurs as we know them will disappear before we even knew we were supposed to appreciate them. We are quietly watching Duncan's Last Stand, and instead of rooting for rising teams to put the final nail in the Spurs' coffin, we should be rooting to see one of the NBA's last relics of historical greatness succeed one last time against artificially created buzz franchises and misguided marquee-player movement.

Wow, just wow. Odd to write this after/during a double digit win streak, unless the author fees Spurs will flame out in 1st round again ...

[hater]

The Spurs manage to excel in the regular season because they always seem to find a handful of overachievers to supplement their Big Three. In fact, every time a Spurs bench player overachieves, it is tempting to want to celebrate the success of the Spurs as an organization that can turn "moderately skilled, character guys" into legitimate NBA players. Role players like Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green, and Tiago Splitter have all exceeded early season expectations, sort of like how Gary Neal, George Hill, and DeJuan Blair all have in recent years. But these guys have a tendency to no-show in the playoffs, and the emotionally manipulative ride toward the postseason crash begins again next season.

sadly, I strongly agree with this part. I would add that more often than not, our playoff leader, manu ginobili is injured which does not help our cause.

This is why even if Spurs come in as #1 or #2 seed in the West into the playoffs, they will not be favorites.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I think this year's team is better than last, but until the big man situation up front is sorted out, it's hard to have faith that this team will even get to the WCF.

Still, hard to not be very proud of how they've played this season :tu

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Wow, just wow.

Explain

[I Heart Ginobili]

Naw we staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacked

[Killakobe81]

Explain

I did ...timing seems odd. And to be honest, even as a Laker fan the lack of respect shown during your win streak (due to Linsanity, Howard rumors) is shameful.

That being said I doubt you guys can win the West but a WCF run to me is not much of a stretch either ...

[hater]

I think this year's team is better than last, but until the big man situation up front is sorted out, it's hard to have faith that this team will even get to the WCF.

Still, hard to not be very proud of how they've played this season :tu

yup. tbh, this team reminds me of the Dallas teams circa 2006-2009. Amazing regular season teams, horrible playoff teams due to their style and inexperience.

but I will not stop cheering for these underdogs and watching this team is actually a lot more entertaining that watching the Spurs of 2008-2011

[z0sa]

Total debbie downer article that unfortunately pegs the majority of ST's fanbase rather well. Rather than enjoy the surprising streak against multiple quality opponents and all odds, let's remember how old our Big 3 are and how we're not "supposed" to be winning. Thanks, I really needed that dose of 'reality!' Not.

This article proves how spoiled the Spurs fans have become - a fanbase where winning 11 straight is taken for granted because a championship isn't guaranteed.

[Killakobe81]

If heat, OKC win this many their would be polls comparing them to the 72 win bulls. Knicks only won 7 straight and Lin was the top story on ESPN even though Parker has been even better than him during that time ...

[GSH]

By Carles on February 21, 2012



now it finally seems as if collective boredom might end up killing off its fan base.

David Robinson, who largely existed as a ringless figure of morality.

The Spurs are somehow sadder than the Charlotte Bobcats

the Spurs as we know them will disappear before we even knew we were supposed to appreciate them.




I don't care if there are any valid points buried in the article. This was some of the most ignorant toilet-cake I have come across in a long time. Of course, the guy who wrote the article also wrote recent pieces titled:

Solving the Coachella Flyer Code
How is Rihanna Doing This?
and Does Coldplay's Mylo Xyloto Sound Enough Like Coldplay?

His perspectives on the Spurs, San Antonio, David Robinson, and everything else pretty much go with the territory.

[manufan10]

I did ...timing seems odd. And to be honest, even as a Laker fan the lack of respect shown during your win streak (due to Linsanity, Howard rumors) is shameful.

That being said I doubt you guys can win the West but a WCF run to me is not much of a stretch either ...


Total debbie downer article that unfortunately pegs the majority of ST's fanbase rather well. Rather than enjoy the surprising streak against multiple quality opponents and all odds, let's remember how old our Big 3 are and how we're not "supposed" to be winning. Thanks, I really needed that dose of 'reality!' Not.

This article proves how spoiled the Spurs fans have become - a fanbase where winning 11 straight is taken for granted because a championship isn't guaranteed.


If heat, OKC win this many their would be polls comparing them to the 72 win bulls. Knicks only won 7 straight and Lin was the top story on ESPN even though Parker has been even better than him during that time ...

Agreed with all of the above. I really thought this article was a better read:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/37148/the-spurs-quiet-rampage


Then, while everyone is placing bets on their collapse and is distracted by the league's shiny new objects or sexy sideshows, the Spurs quietly get to work. As the rest of the world has been wrapped up in the Linsanity over the past two weeks, the Spurs have ripped off a 10-game winning streak out of plain view.

[cheguevara]

Total debbie downer article that unfortunately pegs the majority of ST's fanbase rather well. Rather than enjoy the surprising streak against multiple quality opponents and all odds, let's remember how old our Big 3 are and how we're not "supposed" to be winning. Thanks, I really needed that dose of 'reality!' Not.

This article proves how spoiled the Spurs fans have become - a fanbase where winning 11 straight is taken for granted because a championship isn't guaranteed.

Sorry but the total failures of #1 seed outed by #8 seed and swept by Steve Nash say hi.

Who gives a shit if we have a great regular season team if they fall on their face in the playoffs. It's not about being debbie downer, it's about realizing the last couple of years have been complete utter failures and mainly self inflicted.

[JsnSA]

That article makes some good points and a lot of really bad ones. The only thing I do agree with is that we have had a lot of role players not show up in the playoffs which kills us.

For example, no matter how well he plays in the regular season Bonner can't seem to hit a shot once the playoffs role around...even if he is wide open. I absolutely expect that trend to continue though I would love to be proved wrong. More than that, I would love to trade Bonner for a role player that actually has some balls when it counts.

[z0sa]

Sorry but the total failures of #1 seed outed by #8 seed and swept by Steve Nash say hi.

:lol Memphis was a top 3 defensive team with a bunch of favorable matchups who purposely tanked to play the Spurs because of said matchups. Manu wasn't healthy, either (so what if it happens every year? It's still a fact.)

Most importantly, TP also had his worst series since, what, 2002? Maybe ever all things considered? Spurs also now have Tiago playing big minutes and Green+Neal ballsing up and improving with every game.

Leave the anti-spurs trolling to the NBA forumers, plz, they do a more than well enough job at it.

[GSH]

Sorry but the total failures of #1 seed outed by #8 seed and swept by Steve Nash say hi.




The CBA, salary cap, lux tax, and small market economics say hi back.

[cheguevara]

:lol Memphis was a top 3 defensive team with a bunch of favorable matchups who purposely tanked to play the Spurs because of said matchups. Manu wasn't healthy, either (so what if it happens every year? It's still a fact.) Spurs now have Tiago playing big minutes and Green+Neal. Leave the anti-spurs trolling to the NBA forumers, plz.

:lol it was a fucking 8 seed without arguably their best player, Gay.

utter failure. wake up

[Mel_13]

Well, that guy certainly wrote alot of words.

Grantland is Bill Simmons' creation, and Simmons has always shown great respect for the Spurs. Rather disappointing that he's associated with this rambling, incoherent pile of excrement.

[cheguevara]

The CBA, salary cap, lux tax, and small market economics say hi back.

:cry we're small market :cry

[z0sa]

:lol it was a fucking 8 seed

No, they weren't; they couldve been 6th IIRC. Unless you don't think they tanked to purposely play the Spurs. And still among the best defensive team in the playoffs.


without arguably their best player, Gay.

:lol


utter failure. wake up

I didn't say we won. The Spurs didn't lose like little bitches either, and that was with a big frontline discrepancy. Tiago Splitter and a healthy Manu and a NORMAL TP would have completely changed and probably won that series and you know it.

[cheguevara]

it's still a #1 seed losing to a #8. Historic failure.

[z0sa]

it's still a #1 seed losing to a #8. Historic failure.

:lol it's not even a historic failure if you consider the Mavs lost to a much worse 8th seed who got their ass kicked in the next round.

The Memphis Grizzlies took the OKC Thunder to 7 in the very next round and had some convincing plays and wins. Stop crapping on the Spurs and start giving Memphis some credit, loser.

[cheguevara]

:lol not knowing what a failure of historic level is

nobody gives a shit about a great regular season. at least, not me.

[z0sa]

:lol not knowing what a failure of historic level is

I know you don't, since multiple teams have lost to 8th seeds before the Spurs did. It's not historic anymore the 2nd, 3rd or 20th or 100th time something happens. Notable? Sure. But not at a level to be considered 'historic.'

[cheguevara]

I know you don't, since multiple teams have lost to 8th seeds before the Spurs did. It's not historic anymore the 2nd, 3rd or 20th or 100th time something happens. Notable? Sure. But not at a level to be considered 'historic.'

How many #1 seeds have played #8 seeds in history?

How many of those #1s have lost?

It is historic

[stéphane]

Tiago ain't overachieving...
He's a gifted pick'n roll post player with soft hands and solid footwork (always has been) and it's enough to be good in the NBA due to the so so level of frontcourt players nowadays.

[z0sa]

How many #1 seeds have played #8 seeds in history? hunreds

How many of those #1s have lost?

It is historic

More than #1 seeds have lost to #8 seeds. See the 1999 playoffs.

Like I said, things stop becoming "historic!1111" when they start happening multiple times. You lose and are a hater.

[cheguevara]

let me give you a hint, NBA.com ranks Spurs failure as #3 upset in NBA history
http://allball.blogs.nba.com/2011/04/30/ranking-the-8-1-upsets-in-nba-playoff-history/

[z0sa]

let me give you a hint, NBA.com ranks Spurs failure as #3 upset in NBA history
http://allball.blogs.nba.com/2011/04/30/ranking-the-8-1-upsets-in-nba-playoff-history/

you can say whatever you want, you haven't argued any of my points and have only pointed to #1 over #8. When you decide to study the facts and present an argument contrary to mine, I'll be waiting.

EDIT: btw you are a huge liar. That article does NOT rank the Spurs failure as #3 upset all time. It simply ranks the 8 over 1 upsets.

lol lying to save face

[cheguevara]

^ :lol read the article. You can count similar failures with one hand.

:lol not historic

[z0sa]

^ :lol read the article. You can count similar failures with one hand.

:lol not historic


you are a huge liar. That article does NOT rank the Spurs failure as #3 upset all time. It simply ranks the 8 over 1 upsets.

lol lying to save face

[cheguevara]

Sounds like the recipe for a first-round sweep, doesn’t it? Except as we all know, that’s not what happened, as the Grizzlies dropped the Spurs in six games and became just the fourth 8-seed to topple a 1 since the playoffs expanded to 16 teams in 1984.

:lmao :lmao z0sa

:rollin not historic

[z0sa]

LOL at any dumbass who thought the Spurs would sweep the Grizzlies.

Nice job trying to lie and avoid answering my arguments through this thread, though.

[ElNono]

That article makes some good points and a lot of really bad ones.

this

[z0sa]

NBA.com ranks Spurs failure as #3 upset in NBA history

:rollin I'm done derailing this thread, please continue with the discussion of the OP friends and neighbors.

[GSH]

Well, that guy certainly wrote alot of words.

Grantland is Bill Simmons' creation, and Simmons has always shown great respect for the Spurs. Rather disappointing that he's associated with this rambling, incoherent pile of excrement.

No, there are some really intense basketball articles there. Really. I left out some of the other gems by the same author, like:

Does Sasha Vujacic "Deserve" Maria Sharapova?
Buzzworthy NBA Names, and
The Self-Aware NBA

And then there's Chuck Klosterman who weaves together articles like:
What Ever Happened to the Triangle Offense? (Okay)
So What If Mountain Dew Can Melt Mice?
The Incredibly, Insanely, Undeniably Awesome Return of Van Halen, and
Frankenstein's Monster - A second-by-second analysis of Edgar Winter's finest nine minutes.

I guess all the good Internet niches were taken, so Simmons decided to go with what's left.

[cheguevara]

I know you don't, since multiple teams have lost to 8th seeds before the Spurs did. It's not historic anymore the 2nd, 3rd or 20th or 100th time something happens. Notable? Sure. But not at a level to be considered 'historic.'

it only happened 4 times genius :lol

[cheguevara]

:rollin I'm done derailing this thread, please continue with the discussion of the OP friends and neighbors.

:rollin what bigger upset is there?

even Spurstalk agreed:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178605&page=2

[manufan10]

it only happened 4 times genius :lol

You forgot to bold the 2nd or 3rd times too. :lol

[TJastal]

Geez, ppl are still overrating last year's grizzlies team? They couldn't even get to the WCF (both Dallas & OKC were better) and we're all supposed to believe they were some great ass team? :lmao

I guess if it makes you all feel better about losing in the 1st round and the fact a team purposely went out and lost games in order to secure a seed to play us. :rollin

[cheguevara]

Geez, ppl are still overrating last year's grizzlies team? They couldn't even get to the WCF (both Dallas & OKC were better) and we're all supposed to believe they were some great ass team? :lmao

I guess if it makes you all feel better about losing in the 1st round and the fact a team purposely went out and lost games in order to secure a seed to play us. :rollin

:lol

[spurs10]

:rollin what bigger upset is there?

even Spurstalk agreed:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178605&page=2
The Spurs being the most winning team of all team sports for a decade or more is quite a bit bigger an upset than us losing any round of the playoffs with a one armed Manu and 1 1/2 legged Tim. Baseball, Football, Soccer....yep....the Spurs in little San Antonio.....:lol. How many times in history have the defending champs been swept and curbstomped for...I can't remember the exact figure...but it was truly historical...as in 'hasn't happened multiple times.' The Grizzlies were a pretty good team..took OKC to 7..?? We flamed out in the last game of the regular season...a real drag, but not that surprising. Without Manu, we probably don't go far this year either...though TP has been off the chart...

[LongtimeSpursFan]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7597748/tim-duncan-manu-ginobili-mortality-san-antonio-spurs

Carles in Charge: The Spurs and Mortality
When winning just doesn't feel right


By Carles on February 21, 2012



The Spurs are 23-9, good for the second-best record in the Western Conference. They have wildly overachieved again. But when you watch the Spurs night in and night out, each game feels like a struggle with mortality. For years, they have been tabbed the most boring team in the league, and now it finally seems as if collective boredom might end up killing off its fan base. When deciding to confront the idea of your own imminent death, you never really know if you should celebrate the will of the human spirit that lives to fight for another day, or if you should just tell yourself that you are at peace with the legacy that you left behind.

Watching Tim Duncan makes me feel that way. And even though the team is winning, nobody's really thinking that it's going to add up to much in the playoffs.

While large-market teams can inspire the biggest stories and offer a context to extend the most general metaphors, the most vulnerable fan experiences are constructed in small markets, where the bouncing of Ping-Pong balls and competency of the front office are actually important to the city's economy and identity.

The funny thing about the Spurs is that they aren't even really dying — at least not when it comes to wins and losses — so the front office can't just put this generation to rest and start over. Sure, there are those sad moments when Tim Duncan gets his shots blocked by marginally talented young guys, but the team is thriving with a solid squadron built around Tony Parker. They've even already undergone the annual potentially catastrophic Manu Ginobili injury.

The Spurs manage to excel in the regular season because they always seem to find a handful of overachievers to supplement their Big Three. In fact, every time a Spurs bench player overachieves, it is tempting to want to celebrate the success of the Spurs as an organization that can turn "moderately skilled, character guys" into legitimate NBA players. Role players like Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green, and Tiago Splitter have all exceeded early season expectations, sort of like how Gary Neal, George Hill, and DeJuan Blair all have in recent years. But these guys have a tendency to no-show in the playoffs, and the emotionally manipulative ride toward the postseason crash begins again next season.

Does anyone really think the Spurs will win a playoff series? They were the no. 1 seed in last year's playoffs. They could be the no. 1 seed this year. This, in itself, is impressive, but when your benchmark is winning championships, what could be worse than a team that plays well in the regular season and then inevitably flames out in the playoffs to a much younger and cooler team?

Perhaps one of the downsides of the Duncan era is that the Spurs haven't branded their team as a hot-spot destination that was only 'a piece away' from winning a title. They cultivate strength in accepting that they are what they are. Acknowledging that they were 'a piece away' would diminish the fans' faith in San Antonio's most important celebrities and heroes. It's hard to tell a city that a franchise formula that served as the foundation of its own identity has flaws that might prevent the team from ever winning again.

While most cities are driven to acquire and hype big-name stars, San Antonians would consider role players like Bruce Bowen and Avery Johnson to be just as crucial to the team and the city's identity. San Antonio is the biggest small town in Texas and identifies itself as a working-class city. It isn't as trendy as Austin, as dehumanizing as the Houston sprawl, or as 'everything's bigger in Texas' as Dallas. San Antonio consists of loops of suburbia created by the Texan desire for new money to escape from the antiquated inner city for 'more acreage,' meaning that there is no cultural center in San Antonio. Theoretical cultural institutions like the River Walk and the Alamo are basically packaged tourist destinations. Since Tim Duncan was drafted, the Spurs have become the cultural center of the city because Duncan was able to add substance to the projected ideals of David Robinson, who largely existed as a ringless figure of morality.

The lack of widespread interest in the Spurs isn't surprising, because fans have the consumer right to use imaginary franchise classism to guide their interest in specific teams. That just means a small-market team has the challenge of convincing its fans that the team 'belongs,' and its fans aren't just an afterthought in the relevant tier of the NBA. After winning four championships and witnessing the greatest power forward of all time play on a nightly basis, the Spurs and their fans have constructed a championship psyche to overshadow any small-market insecurities.

Most small-market NBA teams deploy various marketing gimmicks in order to 'get fans in the seats' and generate organic local interest in the team. Since they don't have a local media that can generate Linsanity levels of buzz to increase the profile of their team, they must offer unlimited crappy food, 'free swag,' and other upper deck promotions to add to the fan-perceived value of the team experience. However, the most important idea to be able to sell their fans on is the idea of 'hope.' Since the Spurs are trending downward, they aren't built on a traditional upward trending construct of NBA hope that teams like Oklahoma City, Minnesota, and even Washington are.

Since the Spurs have already matured into a championship team, their current iteration of hope relies on constructing a narrative around savvy veterans who were able to overcome physical limitations in order to beat younger talent. Every other incubating franchise would love to achieve an imminent mid-round playoff exit where its team 'went down fighting.' When the Spurs go down fighting, it's just depressing and confusing to see those same figures fall after already achieving the pinnacle of basketball achievement.

The Spurs are a unique 'small-market' team that operates as the only major professional franchise in the seventh-largest city in the United States. The cross-pollination of superstars with new and buzz-worthy markets has led to the Spurs' omission from more games than usual on this year's national TV schedule. Do mass-market fans really want to watch a team dying right before their eyes?

When a small-market team is confronting its own franchise mortality, it automatically becomes a sad portrait of impending irrelevancy. The Spurs are somehow sadder than the Charlotte Bobcats because you can't just forget about them altogether. Whether it is the Spurs' recent playoff purgatory, Dwight Howard holding the Magic hostage, or the New Orleans Hornets establishing themselves as the league's premier free agent non-destination, all doomed small-market scenarios make fans wonder if they will ever feel any semblance of glory, pride, or even just marketable hope ever again.

If the Spurs can't be celebrated for fighting against the imminent death of their golden era, can we just watch them and celebrate their legacy? Since Tim Duncan is unlikely to ever have a 'Look at Me, I Need Your Validation' Farewell Tour, the Spurs as we know them will disappear before we even knew we were supposed to appreciate them. We are quietly watching Duncan's Last Stand, and instead of rooting for rising teams to put the final nail in the Spurs' coffin, we should be rooting to see one of the NBA's last relics of historical greatness succeed one last time against artificially created buzz franchises and misguided marquee-player movement.


This last paragraph seems to contradict everything the writer wrote. Does he not suggest that fans should come to appreciate what Duncan and the Spurs have and or will accomplish as opposed to those other high-marquee teams?

[DAF86]

I don't know how this guy can be so sure we will fail in the playoffs.

[jjktkk]

Geez, ppl are still overrating last year's grizzlies team? They couldn't even get to the WCF (both Dallas & OKC were better) and we're all supposed to believe they were some great ass team? :lmao

I guess if it makes you all feel better about losing in the 1st round and the fact a team purposely went out and lost games in order to secure a seed to play us. :rollin

No, it was a horrible playoff exit. #1 seeds should never get ousted by a 8 seed imo. Having said that, Memphis was not your typical 8th seed. Eliminating a #1 seed, and taking OKC to 7 seven games, is not what an 8th seed normally does. Which, given Memphis's playoff run last year, it was not a shocker that Memphis was a preseason pick this year, to contend in the West.

[itzsoweezee]

Carles is the guy behind Hipster Runoff and is, in general, hilarious.

[TJastal]

No, it was a horrible playoff exit. #1 seeds should never get ousted by a 8 seed imo. Having said that, Memphis was not your typical 8th seed. Eliminating a #1 seed, and taking OKC to 7 seven games, is not what an 8th seed normally does. Which, given Memphis's playoff run last year, it was not a shocker that Memphis was a preseason pick this year, to contend in the West.

Your point might actually have legitimacy if Memphis had gotten past the 2nd round to the WCF. Sure they tanked a few games at the end, so maybe you can argue they were really a 6th seed. That's about as far as it goes. They were a good team, but not great. The loss was more about the spurs than the grizzlies tbh. Specifically, the spurs having no rim protection in the paint. And we all know that story.

[jag]

Well, that guy certainly wrote alot of words.

Grantland is Bill Simmons' creation, and Simmons has always shown great respect for the Spurs. Rather disappointing that he's associated with this rambling, incoherent pile of excrement.

Yep, a lot of words with very little substance.

The writer seems somewhat confused. The last paragraph seems like it was meant for a different article.

[Killakobe81]

This last paragraph seems to contradict everything the writer wrote. Does he not suggest that fans should come to appreciate what Duncan and the Spurs have and or will accomplish as opposed to those other high-marquee teams?

Not really ...Though I did not like the article, he muses on why the Spurs are tragic and why they are not embraced nationally. The last paragraph is a call for fans to appreciate the best PF in NBA history and a team of overachievers. The paragraphs before were an examination on why the team is not getting recognition nationally, including the flameouts in recent playoffs as an example.

I just think it was far too negative. instead of spending more time on WHY they should be embraced he spent most of saying why they are not. I dont think it's contradictory the story just has no balance, since he is saying we SHOULD appreciate the spurs ...

[jjktkk]

Your point might actually have legitimacy if Memphis had gotten past the 2nd round to the WCF. Sure they tanked a few games at the end, so maybe you can argue they were really a 6th seed. That's about as far as it goes. They were a good team, but not great. The loss was more about the spurs than the grizzlies tbh. Specifically, the spurs having no rim protection in the paint. And we all know that story.

My point was Memphis was a good team, better than their 8th seed ranking last year. This by no means excuses the Spur's putrid performance against them in the playoffs, but if the Grizz get Randolph back and get in the playoffs, no one in the West would look forward to matching up with them.

[TJastal]

My point was Memphis was a good team, better than their 8th seed ranking last year. This by no means excuses the Spur's putrid performance against them in the playoffs, but if the Grizz get Randolph back and get in the playoffs, no one in the West would look forward to matching up with them.

The national media pundits and local popologists have been busy filling your head with nonsense I see.

If they were so great, how come they couldn't get past OKC last season? Oh, right. Because they aren't that great. The only way they ran roughshod over the spurs was because Pop was too dumb to use the size on his bench. Hollins knew this, thus why he tanked games. Brooks? Not so much. Brooks was smart enough to utilize his size off the bench to neutralize the grizzlies main strength.

[SenorSpur]

It's not just the beatdown versus Memphis, but let's everyone not forget the 4-game sweep the previous year, versus PHX, in the 2010 playoffs. If those series are not obvious signs of the inevitable, then nothing else is.

Sure this year's Spurs team is better than last year, but it still has holes and there are still major concerns. The lack of an athletic big man on the frontline, the combined injury histories of both Manu and T.J. Ford and of course, there is the continued decline of our once-great superstar, Duncan. Time will not resolve these issues.

While I don't agree with everything the writer proclaimed, his point about the Spurs having to rely on role players, who come up small in the playoffs, is totally justified and painfully valid. Let's face it, another year is also not going to improve Bonner's mental midgetry.

All that said, there's nothing to suggest that this team will fare any better in the playoffs. In fact, this team is a lot like Bonner - regular season wonder, but playoff unproven. No matter how many wins they stack up during the regular season, another playoff flame-out will make it all very meaningless. In the meantime, we will just have to wait and see.

[jjktkk]

The national media pundits and local popologists have been busy filling your head with nonsense I see.

If they were so great, how come they couldn't get past OKC last season? Oh, right. Because they aren't that great. The only way they ran roughshod over the spurs was because Pop was too dumb to use the size on his bench. Hollins knew this, thus why he tanked games. Brooks? Not so much. Brooks was smart enough to utilize his size off the bench to neutralize the grizzlies main strength.

Who said great other than you? So based on your brilliance, you thought Memphis should of beaten OKC too? Did Memphis, the 8th seed underachieve? And those national "pundits", meaning TNT, ESPN, etc..., don't have a clue about basketball, compared to the legendary Tjastal? Just when I thought you were actually turning the corner... :lol

[cd98]

Am I missing something, or did Dallas just win a championship after losing in the the first round the year before?

[cd98]

Am I missing something, or did Dallas just win a title with a 39 year old point guard? But it's out of the question that the Spurs can win with this team.

[TJastal]

Who said great other than you? So based on your brilliance, you thought Memphis should of beaten OKC too? Did Memphis, the 8th seed underachieve? And those national "pundits", meaning TNT, ESPN, etc..., don't have a clue about basketball, compared to the legendary Tjastal? Just when I thought you were actually turning the corner... :lol

You misunderstood my point, as usual. Which was I believe the media pundits and certain local popologists made the grizz out to be better than they really were. They were a 6th-8th seed tops. If they were better than the thunder then they would have beaten the thunder. It's all really simple if you think about it. You might try that out sometime, I heard its a really cool thing to do.

[GSH]

Who would have guessed that such a crappy, meaningless article would spawn such a crappy, meaningless thread?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

It's not just the beatdown versus Memphis, but let's everyone not forget the 4-game sweep the previous year, versus PHX, in the 2010 playoffs. If those series are not obvious signs of the inevitable, then nothing else is.

Sure this year's Spurs team is better than last year, but it still has holes and there are still major concerns. The lack of an athletic big man on the frontline, the combined injury histories of both Manu and T.J. Ford and of course, there is the continued decline of our once-great superstar, Duncan. Time will not resolve these issues.

While I don't agree with everything the writer proclaimed, his point about the Spurs having to rely on role players, who come up small in the playoffs, is totally justified and painfully valid. Let's face it, another year is also not going to improve Bonner's mental midgetry.

All that said, there's nothing to suggest that this team will fare any better in the playoffs. In fact, this team is a lot like Bonner - regular season wonder, but playoff unproven. No matter how many wins they stack up during the regular season, another playoff flame-out will make it all very meaningless. In the meantime, we will just have to wait and see.

In a nutshell think about this:

The Spurs haven't won a game in the 2nd round since 2008

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Who would have guessed that such a crappy, meaningless article would spawn such a crappy, meaningless thread?

Slow times here at SpursTalk :wakeup

[Robz4000]

This team is much better than last year, but it is young and unproven in the playoffs. I wouldn't be surprised if they flame out again in the first round or manage to make it out of the West. However, they are weak up front and that will only hurt them both short-term and long-term.

This article is a piece of crap and basically just bashes the Spurs and San Antonio in general. It's like Chris Broussard wrote it.

[GSH]

This team is much better than last year, but it is young and unproven in the playoffs. I wouldn't be surprised if they flame out again in the first round or manage to make it out of the West. However, they are weak up front and that will only hurt them both short-term and long-term.

This article is a piece of crap and basically just bashes the Spurs and San Antonio in general. It's like Chris Broussard wrote it.


Game, set, and match. That says it all, about as concisely as it can be done. Seriously, that's pretty much perfection.

Put a DNR order on the thread, as far as I'm concerned.

[SpursRock20]

You misunderstood my point, as usual. Which was I believe the media pundits and certain local popologists made the grizz out to be better than they really were. They were a 6th-8th seed tops. If they were better than the thunder then they would have beaten the thunder. It's all really simple if you think about it. You might try that out sometime, I heard its a really cool thing to do.


I don't think you can really rank it as an all-time upset. Going into the series, people who knew anything about the Spurs knew it was going to be an up-hill struggle and the series could go either way. We did not have our best player for game 1 because he had BROKEN his elbow in the last game of the season. So home court advantage meant didly squat after we lost game 1 of the series. There went the impressive perk of a 60+ win season immediately.

As for the article, anyone reading it who is not a supporter of the Spurs will just become deeper entrenched in their opinion on the Spurs and strenthen their idea of the "tired, old Spurs" being unwatchable. This article has no purpose, just pointless ramblings of a bored writer who feels like he owes something to a team that has won 11 games straight.

Frankly, as a life-long Spurs fan I can't wait to see what happens in the playoffs this year. The west is filled with a lot of great teams, but it's generally understood that the two elite teams in the NBA are in the East. Anything can happen if we are healthy. Granted, that's a huge if. But I can't wait to find out how my "dying" Spurs will do.

[The Truth #6]

Great article. It praised the Spurs while providing an honest context for the current season. I thought the insights on the city and the season were dead on.

Everyone crying about it is most likely either: thin skinned, not being honest, and/or doesn't live in San Antonio.

Who here honestly thinks the Spurs are favorites to win a title? Who here doesn't think Blair and Bonner will vanish in the playoffs? Who here doesn't think the team's legacy should be embraced this season? Who here doesn't think the Riverwalk is a destination for tourists instead of locals? I live in downtown SA. Trust me, locals don't frequent there.

The author's viewpoint, to me, came across as someone who actually knows San Antonio. I wonder if a lot of fans on this board actually live in San Antonio to truly know what it's like to appreciate the team as a local. I'm not saying you have to live in SA to like the Spurs, but a lot of these reactions seem knee-jerk and overly sensitive.

[roycrikside]

Well, that guy certainly wrote alot of words.

Grantland is Bill Simmons' creation, and Simmons has always shown great respect for the Spurs. Rather disappointing that he's associated with this rambling, incoherent pile of excrement.

Clearly you don't read Simmons consistently. He USED TO respect the Spurs. Eventually his bosses at ESPN gave him religion or whatever, because for the last three, four years he's basically crapped on the Spurs whenever he's bothered to mention them at all. He's put an asterisk on every one of their titles. He doesn't respect the team at all.

[Mel_13]

Clearly you don't read Simmons consistently. He USED TO respect the Spurs. Eventually his bosses at ESPN gave him religion or whatever, because for the last three, four years he's basically crapped on the Spurs whenever he's bothered to mention them at all. He's put an asterisk on every one of their titles. He doesn't respect the team at all.

link?

[ogait]

While I didn't like some of the phrasing in the article like " Do mass-market fans really want to watch a team dying right before their eyes?", I still think the overall message of the article was adequate to the current Spurs situation.

This quote seems spot on for Spurs fans pissed about this article who do not want to acknowledge the team flaws or are being overly sensitive about anything negative said about the team.



Perhaps one of the downsides of the Duncan era is that the Spurs haven't branded their team as a hot-spot destination that was only 'a piece away' from winning a title. They cultivate strength in accepting that they are what they are. Acknowledging that they were 'a piece away' would diminish the fans' faith in San Antonio's most important celebrities and heroes. It's hard to tell a city that a franchise formula that served as the foundation of its own identity has flaws that might prevent the team from ever winning again.

[SpurNation]

We are quietly watching Duncan's Last Stand, and instead of rooting for rising teams to put the final nail in the Spurs' coffin, we should be rooting to see one of the NBA's last relics of historical greatness succeed one last time against artificially created buzz franchises and misguided marquee-player movement.

It's what they said last year. AND...I still enjoy and will be rooting for Duncan's prominence when playing like the Duncan of (well for lack of a better phrase) old.

So...bring on the young...bring on the up and coming...bring on the suppose to be's. As good as they may become...they'll never duplicate Duncan.

It's why being a "lottery" team now IS NOT what it meant when Duncan was available in the draft. And not to my knowledge any player up and coming in the near future that could realistically be considered his equal.

[SA210]

...to be honest, even as a Laker fan the lack of respect shown during your win streak (due to Linsanity, Howard rumors) is shameful.

.....a WCF run to me is not much of a stretch either ...



If heat, OKC win this many their would be polls comparing them to the 72 win bulls. Knicks only won 7 straight and Lin was the top story on ESPN even though Parker has been even better than him during that time ...

So true. :tu

[therealtruth]

That article makes some good points and a lot of really bad ones. The only thing I do agree with is that we have had a lot of role players not show up in the playoffs which kills us.

For example, no matter how well he plays in the regular season Bonner can't seem to hit a shot once the playoffs role around...even if he is wide open. I absolutely expect that trend to continue though I would love to be proved wrong. More than that, I would love to trade Bonner for a role player that actually has some balls when it counts.

It's the stars who are supposed to step up in the playoffs. Role players are supposed to hit shots because of the attention that the stars draw. If the stars can't make the defense pay for single coverage the role players will struggle as well. That's why the say the playoffs is all about the stars.

[therealtruth]

The national media pundits and local popologists have been busy filling your head with nonsense I see.

If they were so great, how come they couldn't get past OKC last season? Oh, right. Because they aren't that great. The only way they ran roughshod over the spurs was because Pop was too dumb to use the size on his bench. Hollins knew this, thus why he tanked games. Brooks? Not so much. Brooks was smart enough to utilize his size off the bench to neutralize the grizzlies main strength.

Exactly. If the Spurs had the ability to play single coverage in the post they beat the Grizzlies. Alot of the backbreaking 3's Battier hit in the series were because of the Spurs over helping in the paint.

Brooks had capable bigs (Collision, Perkins, Mohahmed) that could defend single coverage and played them. He didn't have to worry about doubling. He knew even if Gasol/Randolph went crazy that wouldn't be enough to win. That forced Hollins to start Mayo to get more from his perimeter players.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Well, that guy certainly wrote alot of words.

Grantland is Bill Simmons' creation, and Simmons has always shown great respect for the Spurs. Rather disappointing that he's associated with this rambling, incoherent pile of excrement.

Well said!

[TJastal]

Exactly. If the Spurs had the ability to play single coverage in the post they beat the Grizzlies. Alot of the backbreaking 3's Battier hit in the series were because of the Spurs over helping in the paint.

Brooks had capable bigs (Collision, Perkins, Mohahmed) to could defend single coverage and played them. He didn't have to worry about doubling. He knew even if Gasol/Randolph went crazy that wouldn't be enough to win. That forced Hollins to start Mayo to get more from his perimeter players.

Thanks for the backup, therealtruth. Gets old listening and trying to argue with the Pop revisionists trying to make excuses constantly for losing in the 1st round. They especially love to cry about Manu being out of the first game, but conveniently don't mention that the grizzlies were out their best player in every game (Gay).

[Cane]

For the past few years its basically been the same old song and dance when it comes to the Spurs chances in the playoffs. They need health and another legit big to really become a contender

[bigfan]

Who is the homo that wrote that crap?

[Danny.Zhu]

:depressed